SS vs SL5x5
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /fit/ - Fitness
You are currently reading a thread in /fit/ - Fitness
I need serious help brahs. I'm 32, 5'9", 200lbs. One of those "used to lift then discovered beer" guys.
I quit beer and junk food and have been eating healthy and hitting the gym. Doing that 4 week beginners routine from muscle and fitness. So far I've lost 5 lbs and I'm at the end of week 2. I'm going to do the routine to the end of the 4 weeks but I need serious advice on what to do next. SS or 5x5. I need serious opinions. Possibly stories and progression. I want to lift for functional strength and not just aesthetics. Although that's important too.
Somebody help. Also I've read through the sticky. It doesn't say which is better, if any.
SS is shit and not even beginners should stick to it for longer than a month, the whole "SS is a meme" does hold some ground
5x5 is a bit better but I really don't like the low reps direction but if you can add a few more accessory exercises it can be a half decent program
I would suggest something like a push/pull/legs split
>>36239218
Just read SS and pick either or. Both work fine. You'll get a little stronger faster on SS because it's less volume before needing to progress.
Reg's novice is a good one too for beefier back and arms. Just drop the calf and wrist work. My lifts are based on that, 70% 80% of working weight warm ups with three sets of working weight x 5. As long as you can throw on weight, you're making it.
>>36239218
SS is superior in everyway. http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program
- SL has you start with babyweights. It will take you forever to actually start getting stronger. SS, on the other hand, tests you on the first workout and let's you kickstart progression
- SL has you add 2.5kg on every workout. This will make progression incredibly slow on the beginning, and incredibly hard after a month or two. SS, on the other hand, has you add as much as 8kg to your deadlift on the first few workouts, and it eventually lowers progression on certain lifts like the ohp and the bench to 1kg per workout. This means you will not get stuck on the 50kg-ohp-deload-loop everyone who does SL gets stuck on
- SL was "written" (copy pasted in a dumb manner and without any thought behind it) by a marketing team with 0 coaching experience, and is targeted towards couch potatoes. SS was written by an ex-professional athlete and a coach with over 3 decades of experience
- SL only has you work your floor pull 1.5 times per week. SS has you work floor pulls 3 times per week, 1.5 deadlifts (3x at the start) and 1.5 power cleans. This means you will get stronger on your deadlift doing SS, since you will be training it a lot more
- SL has you do barbell rows, SS has chinups. Chinups are a better back-builder as the range of motion for the lats is way longer. Not only that, but chinups will give you good biceps development, while rows won't. Only reason you should do rows instead of chinups as a beginner, is in case you can't do bodyweight chinups and the gym doesn't have an assistance machine
- It's way easier to finish 3x5 sets with perfect reps than 5x5 sets with perfect reps. Not only that, but doing 5x5 will exhaust you before the next lift
- SL tells you to deload too much. SS, on the other hand, only tells you to deload if it's 100% necessary
- SS trains both strength and power, and it trains your traps a lot more with the power cleans
>>36239218
Only reason SL is a popular meme is because of marketing efforts. They launched a good mobile app when the market was still untapped, and that made it really popular among normies.
Not only that, but they paid a bunch of personalities of the fitness industry to shill for their program.
Rip, on the other hand, was pretty retarded when it comes to marketing and didn't put much effort into it, and only released a mobile app a few months ago, years too late. This means the only people doing SS were people who were lucky enough to join a gym with a SS coach, or did research and visited lifting forums. Marketing fail 101.
Over the years, a bunch of novices "graduated" from SL with slow progression, but they got ok-tier results and now recommend it all the time as if it's "as good as SS".
Thus, SL became a huge meme even though it's utterly awful.
You don't need to read the full SS book (even though it's great). Watch the videos where Rip teaches how to perform the lifts (https://www.youtube.com/user/artofmanliness/search?query=rippetoe) and read the FAQ page http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program and you will be completely fine.
After three weeks or so, start doing your power cleans. It's very easy to learn and incredibly valuable for deadlift progression. If you don't wanna learn how to clean for whatever reason, you should change them for light deadlifts, 3x5 at 80-90% of the weight you normally use for 5 reps.
For more info
>http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program
And visit our album
>http://imgur.com/a/Uriwb
>mfw been doing SS for a year with accessory work
>mfw squat 175, bench 112.5 and diddy 187.5 at 87kg
OP don't listen to the trolls, do you want to end up doing a brosplit and looking like shit and being weak?
>>36239271
Ah sweet, as a beginner I was wondering if I should go with SS, but the price of the book was a big no no for me.
Thanks trappy-chan.
>>36239295
>DL 12.5kg higher than squat
1/4 squatter detected
>>36239271
So how about I follow rips advice but exchange power cleans for pendlay rows? I've been doing power cleans for quite some time and I fucking hate it
>>36239218
Is this really a question?
>>36239309
You should change them for light deadlifts, 3x5 at 80-90% of what you use for 5 reps, or a deadlift variation, like snatch DLs 3x5 at 70-80%
The deadlift and the power clean are floor pulls, they are mainly a hamstring/glute/spinal erectors exercise, while secondarily training your quads and back.
Barbell rows don't train those muscles, it's a back-only exercise. SS has you do chinups instead of barbell rows.
Check our album for more useful info
>http://imgur.com/a/Uriwb
>>36239330
Does rippetoe pay you or something?
>>36239255
compare/contrast is exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks. I'll look into SS a bit more.
>>36239308
High bar, ATG and no equipment senpai. Got babby length legs and short arms.
>>36239323
When I used to lift before, it was in high school in weights and conditioning. The football coach led the class and had been a competitive lifter. He taught us all proper form and gave out personally tailored plans each week. There was no thought to it. I just did wtf I was told, with great results.
Now I'm on my own though and don't know exactly where to begin. That's why I posted this thread
I really don't want to fuck around with mental math and remembering what I did when I'm on final year uni studies, plus my home gym ceiling is too low for OHP standing.
I've picked up SL because of app basically tracking for me, but as soon as I fail twice on 5x5 on any exercise I'm switching it to 3x5 instead of deloading and aiming for 8 reps even if the app only counts up to 5. Also aiming to add planks, chinups, L-sits and curls if I have time as often as possible.
Eventually I'll probably get off SL after I finish my studies but I still don't want to be daunted by the idea of needing to do a lot of research and changing up my workout and note taking if I have to switch off the app.
Are there any spreadsheets or shit I can find to help?
>>36239410
If you're just wanting to keep track, you can use fit notes.
>>36239218
you are a manlet, dont even try
>>36239241
Talking about push/pull/legs, you saying AxBxCxx or ABCABCx?
>>36239218
Do Reg Parks 5x5, dont listen to tranny/pajeet lies
>>36239434
But a top shelf manlet, so there's still hope. No Napoleon complex here
>>36239452
Trappy seems to be more knowledgable on this subject than most. Don't give a fuck what gender s/he chooses if the knowledge is beneficial to me
your result will not be determined by which of those routines you choose, but by how well you do whatever routine you pick. if you want good results then learn nutrition, learn the main barbell lifts, sleep well, never skip workouts and don't be a pussy. those things are like 98% of your result and choice of novice routine is the remaining 2%
>>36239528
This. Cannot stress enough how important diet and rest is.
Aesthetics = diet
Strength = diet and rest
Though I wouldn't say the program is 2%. If you don't follow a proper program, you will stay forever at low numbers like some people do.
>>36239564
>diet
>diet
>Live with family, kitchen gets two uses a meal for parents/everyone else
I really fucking need to move out.
>>36239218
Are you under the impression that regular bodybuilding doesn't build functional strenght?
>>36239450
as long as you do deadlifts on legs you can do abcabcx but I'm not too strict about how often I go to the gym
as long as you go at least 3 times a week, you'll be fine
>>36239564
>This. Cannot stress enough how important diet and rest is.
>Aesthetics = diet
>Strength = diet and rest
What?
Aesthetics = Hypertrophy routine, Caloric Maintanence/Deficit, Sleep
Strength = Strength Routine, Caloric Surplus, Sleep
>>36239710
>hypertrophy and strength routine are different things for natty lifters
>bulking isn't useful for aesthetics
nice memes
>>36239727
>>36239727
>nice memes
No, the better meme was you trying to convince that aesthetics doesn't require rest.
>hypertrophy and strength routine are different things for natty lifters
kek
>>36239727
Stop posting until you actually start lifting
>>36239727
Trappy, I started doing SL after following Scooby's Full Body split, do I drop SL and start SS or I keep doing it? I've been doing SL for 1 week now.
>>36239774
If its only been a week, you may as well.
>SS or SL
Who fucking cares go out there and squat, bench, OHP and deadlift 3x a week for however many sets you see fit, 3 sets, 4 sets, 5 set, 10 sets
Which is precisely what that testosterone-blocking cock-shrivelling transexual does not do.
>>36239727
Heya sexy beast.
My gym is packed with hottie chicks (bonering all day) then i saw a beginning trap and became hard as steel and the trap was barely above average.
Whats wrong with me?
>i'll keep checking out dem squats tho
>>36239255
>>36239218
while SL is fucking utter shit the way medhi explain it, it's pretty much a SS with quite more volume.
medhi is a weak faggot, i was stronger than him after 1 year in the gym.
starting strenght is much better, imho you can bench and ohp a lot more than that, i noticed that upper body can handle much more volume and frequency than lower body.
i'm currently doing a variation of the texas method and it looks like that (i do olympic lifts, volume on the main compunds for someone who doesnt would be ~20% more)
A
squat 3x5 across
bench 3x5 across
press 3x5 across
deficit deadlift 1x5
B
front squat 3x3 (heavy)
bench 2x5(80% day A)
C
Squat 5rm
bench 5rm
deadlift 5rm
ohp 5rm
si, ig i can handle this much volume while still jerking, snatching and pushpressing every other day, a beginner should be able to bench and overhead press AT LEAST those 3 times a week.
TL:DR
bench 3 times a week despite of what every beginner program says
>>36239985
I like to do close-grip bench press on the day I do OHPs
Does anyone have experience with the SS app? Is it worth the price of admission?
