>TFW a single Tren blast is worth about 4-5 years of natty gains
I'm really trying to justify not roiding but I don't think I can any more. It's just too appealing
If the gym is your life, no reason not to
I'd argue to get a better life tho
>>37714499
But why does it have to be my life?
I can do more things than just be huge
How well does Test only compare to natty lifting?
>>37714469
If you're natty, muscles stay after you stop your cycle and you develop natural muscle memory.
If you roid, muscles will fade away as soon as you stop roiding.
It's temporary pleasure.
It's like fucking that really hot girl in your class that has gonorrhea. Cum now, cry later.
>>37714563
A guy on test will make more gains sitting on their ass than a natty lifter would with perfect programming and diet.
>>37714592
Correcting my own post here: "If you're natty, muscles stay after you stop working out*"
>>37714592
>If you're natty, muscles stay after you stop your cycle and you develop natural muscle memory.
Why do you think you wouldn't develop muscle memory with roids?
>If you roid, muscles will fade away as soon as you stop roiding.
Why would I stop roiding? That's like saying my programming skills will fade away as soon as I stop programming. Why would I ever stop?
>It's temporary pleasure
Isn't it better to have temporary pleasure than never to have pleasure at all? (Be doomed to a life of being natty)
At least you can roid and become beyond huge for a few years, and if you hate having sex with women and feeling great then you can stop and go back to being a natty loser. But at least you've had a few years of enjoyment, doesn't that make more sense?
>>37714469
So a single tren blast will take you from noob to 2/3/4/5+?
>>37714624
oh no it's retarded.
>>37714592
This. a thousand times this.
If you're prepared to cycle until you're 60, go for it. But know that after just one gear blast any gains you make will go just as fast as they came once you hop off.
>>37714624
>Be doomed to a life of being natty
You will never have the pleasure of making it as a natty, It's an infinitely better feeling knowing that you got your body through hard work instead of cheating.
Sad!
>>37714646
This
>>37714624
>>If you're natty, muscles stay after you stop your cycle and you develop natural muscle memory.
>Why do you think you wouldn't develop muscle memory with roids?
>>37714636
Nice argument or explanation
>>37714652
>You will never have the pleasure of making it as a natty, It's an infinitely better feeling knowing that you got your body through hard work instead of cheating
Do you think that when you roid you don't have to lift or eat anymore? The muscle just magically gets extracted from air particles and attaches to your body?
>>37714646
>But know that after just one gear blast any gains you make will go just as fast as they came once you hop off
What's your point though.
Besides the cost that's not a negative in any way. You get to enjoy your roided gains for a while, that's a lot better than never having roided gains at all
>>37714673
>Do you think that when you roid you don't have to lift or eat anymore? The muscle just magically gets extracted from air particles and attaches to your body?
I never implied this.
I implied that people who are huge and natty worked 100x harder for their bodies than those who cheat.
Using shit is a very weird sticky situation. On one hand you have no reason to do it because you're not some sort of athlete nor do you make a living off of your physique. But on the other hand you have no real reason not do it because it increases your strength and size very easily and as long as you're not stupid about it you can stay healthy and live a long life.
>>37714673
I'll take my healthy heart, normal sized testes, work ethic, and natty gains any day.
>>37714684
>I implied that people who are huge and natty worked 100x harder for their bodies than those who cheat
So what?
It's not a competition. That's like saying "The guys who do a fucktarded routine and don't count calories had to work 10000x harder for their bodies than those CHEATING PLEBS who count calories and did starting strength before moving onto an intermediate routine".
Doesn't it make more sense to meet your goals using the most efficient methods available to you?
You can't just set artificial limits and then decide everyone needs to follow them or else they're cheaters.
>>37714631
What does 2/3/4/5+ mean?
>>37714631
>2/3/4/5+?
No one overhead presses 225
>>37714721
>So what?
As I said, it is far more satisfactory to get your gains by working hard. Learn to read please.
>It's not a competition. That's like saying "The guys who do a fucktarded routine and don't count calories had to work 10000x harder for their bodies than those CHEATING PLEBS who count calories and did starting strength before moving onto an intermediate routine".
If you can't see the difference between deliberately cheating vs. being a noob then I'm sorry for your parents as they had to raise a mop like yourself.
>Doesn't it make more sense to meet your goals using the most efficient methods available to you?
Not if those goals are entirely superficial and the way you earned them was hazardous for your long term health
>You can't just set artificial limits and then decide everyone needs to follow them or else they're cheaters.
You're right, but I'm not setting artificial limits. I'm describing one wholly natural and good for your health process (lifting while natty) vs. a man-made, very much dangerous for your health process (Roiding)
>>37714719
Your heart health wont suffer from one tren blast im sure, just get bloodwork done to make sure youre all good
>>37714786
>As I said, it is far more satisfactory to get your gains by working hard. Learn to read please.
Maybe for you, but not for everyone.
You could make the argument that training using bodyweight, eating only vegan food and not counting calories or macros is also much more satisfactory to get gains by working hard and inefficiently.
>If you can't see the difference between deliberately cheating vs. being a noob
How is it cheating? It's not a competition where people agree to the rules and sign a paper claiming they will not use Performance Enhancing drugs as outlined by the committee.
Is Creatine and Whey also cheating because some fuckhead like you thinks that he's better because he doesn't use it?
>Not if those goals are entirely superficial and the way you earned them was hazardous for your long term health
Who are you to say whose goals are superficial and whose aren't?
Someone who doesn't lift might claim your goals as a natty are superficial. Does it make him right?
>hazardous for your long term health
[citation needed]
>>37714766
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzV4EZb2NMs
no but they can do this
you can make an entire years worth of gains from a 6 week oral cycle
>>37714469
it's about the journey, not the destination
>>37714874
Is it fair to say that the journey on roids is better than without them?
>>37714738
Pressing 2 plates, benching 3, squatting 4, deadlifting 5plus
>>37714596
K going to doctor to get tested and praying.
>>37714835
Lol, he just pressed more than I dead.
ITT: Bitter fatties who blame their shitty bodies on being natty.
>>37714847
keepable? wut would this be
bump
natties btfo
>>37714766
I do, shoulderlet
>Inb4 fatfuck
5'10 180lbs
80% of fit cannot afford steroids
90% of fit will lose all gains once they cycle off should they happen to get a batch
100% of steroid threads on 4chan are pointless, it's a fantasy thread
>>37715959
>80% of fit cannot afford steroids
You can afford them on a min wage job.
A vial of test is $30-50
>>37715968
80% of fit cannot afford steroids
>>37715982
What makes you say that?
A minimum wage job can afford it. you can mow 5 lawns a month and afford yourself a vial of test and AI
>>37714592
>>37714646
is this real tho or just broscience?
>>37714835
are you supposed to start that high up? I bring it down to my collar bone.
>>37716001
80% of fit cannot afford steroids
100% are NEETs on bennies
80% spend their money on tendies
>>37716041
I can afford I just don't know where to get them and I'm not fully educated about long term affects. What can you take orally?
Op just lift for 4 years naturally until you have a good strength base, then try a cycle of test and see how you feel about it. Nobody should use Tren for their first cycle lol. I got crazy stretch marks on my first test cycle, can't even imagIne what they would be like using Tren as your first cycle. Also test is cheap ad dirt, especially if you live in the us
>>37716062
don't
>>37715301
People who say you lose all your muscle as soon as you stop roiding don't know what context is.
If you just started lifting and did 1 cycle of anything, you will keep that muscle. The natural amount of test in the body would easily be able to keep that up
>>37716062
You get them by making friends with people on steroid forums. They will usually have a thread for members of Individual countries, so you comment in them and usually someone will pm you. They then tell you to download a messenger app called Wickr and them on it. Sorry if this didn't mKe sense I'm at a solid 8/10 right now
Why not earn your muscles instead of cheating for them, you gormless sad sacks?
>>37716062
the only worthwhile steroids are injectable.
Where buy tren in the UK?
>>37716197
the moral question of steroids is whateves
the reason nobody should do it is because they're playing for the short-term, and there's a lot of possible side-effects later in life
fitness is about health, aesthetics should always be a secondary goal.
>>37716197
You're an annoying person
>>37716062
Super easy.
Just get them off the darknet and make sure to only buy them from very trusted vendors (most have rankings depending on how much activity they do)
google "darknet marketplace"
>>37716197
>cheating
lmao @ ur life
there are no rules in life. enjoy natty lifting and no gains.
>>37716227
>buying roids from darknet
completely retarded
keep that for recreational drugs
>>37714469
do what you want but also you should be able to see that if steroids gives you bad health consequences you sholdn't do it
if you want the TRUTH, you should know that after some stage normies can't realize differences in gains as other bodybuilders, if you get on tren you will impress other bodybuilders rather than that qt you like. Normies probably can't see the difference between Brad Pitt's fight club physique and Dwayne Johnson physique, they both go to their "guys ripped" folder in their minds
>>37716255
Also you should be able to see that the natty endgame is becoming less obsessed with bodybuilding and training for a rich life of acceptance and kindness while the roid endgame is becoming rich piana
Just roid. You'll get the body you always wanted. You don't have to be as strict with your diet. You can do this working out in 45 min sessions. Chicks will love your body. You will feel more confident.
The only downside is some dyels and neckbeards on this board will think less of you.
Not a hard choice.
>>37714469
>having to blast and cruise just to ruin your test levels
Na
>>37716165
>If you just started lifting and did 1 cycle of anything, you will keep that muscle
is there any reason NOT to do one cycle for beginners then?
Seems like free muscle.
>>37716062
you'll have to inject. Orals kill your liver, they're only really used for the first couple weeks to frontload until the injectables start.
SST
>>37716331
health, longevity
play for the long term
>>37716331
You will not want to stop at one cycle. Also, don't forget that there are side effects that you may not want to risk experiencing .
>>37716303
>Just roid. You'll get the body you always wanted. You don't have to be as strict with your diet. You can do this working out in 45 min sessions
Fuck man i really want to but I'm just worried about sources or whatever not being around later so I'd have to stop.
Fuckkk, what do. I'm so close to training for another 3-4 months and just buying a cycle of test, AI and pct
>>37716342
>health, longevity
>play for the long term
One cycle of testosterone will not kill you. or cause ANY side effects long-term, hell not even short term
>retarded Natty's ask questions
C-can I just do one cycle to get lean? I'm okay with natty progress for muscle gain, but I have such a hard time cutting.
>>37716370
1 cycle netgains are not going to be groundbreaking, and genetics still are largely at play
there's a high chance 1 cyclefags will lose all gains shortly after getting off, because their diet and workout routines are shit to begin with
not worth
>>37714951
Nope, it's bodyweight
>>37716370
>he thinks a cycle of testosterone will make him get huge gains in a month
man, testosterone doesn't do anything in the first few months, you are thinking of other steroids
>>37716347
test e, AI, and PCT are so common and cheap to produce that you won't get bunk gear.
plenty of legit, quality sources on reddit sst
>>37716386
>>37716405
Who said huge gains?
16 weeks of 500mg test-e is not bad gains at all though. Dbol for first few weeks and you're talking more gains in a couple months than 2 or 3 years of lifting
>>37716408
>test e, AI, and PCT are so common and cheap to produce that you won't get bunk gear.
>plenty of legit, quality sources on reddit sst
Oh yes I know. I've been researching them.(them being sources)
But the thing is that I'm concerned with staying on long-term. Yeah the sources exist and are easy to buy RIGHT NOW. But what about 5, 10 or 15 years from now?
What if my life situation changes in some way and I can't roid anymore? What if laws severely change? You know what I mean?
i guess test is relatively cheap that I COULD buy 1-2 years of a cruise dose just in case though. I'm just concerned with the whole thing long-term.
>>37716414
you've never actually done steroids have you
it seems like you're citing shit you've heard others say, trying to probe a response for approval
1 cycle on roids is not worth it, and you are still playing a risky game with medical issues down the line, if you're unlucky it will be devastating
perfect your diet, never miss a set/rep/workout, and find more substance in your life besides the gym
3x a week, 6 hours a week, eat healthy, live life... don't fuck around with steroids.
Serious question: Why roid if you don't intend to compete?
Facts:
> Literally no one cares for your body unless you are skelly or fat
> Getting buff actually makes people think you are a meathead. You have to compensate with charisma. But that's no problem because you're a charismatic guy, aren't you anon?
> Getting buff, and being all about that gym life will get you a gym whore.
> Almost any other hobby will make you way more interesting to others. Like playing an instrument, drawing, playing actual sports, etc.
> Regarding overall looks, more defined abs or a little bigger chest will have a neglectable impact. Most important are: face, height, frame (not meme'ing here), clothing style, hygene, confident posture, etc.
> Girls consider Efron mode already as too much. They only find him hot cause of 9/10 face (well until they find out he is like 5'8...) And i know this because a friend of mine looks like efron, and multiple girls (attractive, fit girls) have told me that they find it too much.
Yeah, steroids are awesome and the natty guy here is just spouting shit. It just really depends if you want to do them, and if you do, be really sure and research a ton. Personally I'm happy lifting as a natty, but many people aren't or maybe want to go further, and that's up to them. It's not cheating or bad for you if done properly.
Could someone direct me to a beginner roid wiki, pastebin, sticky, whatever please?
The only non-natty people i know IRL are a bunch of niggers at the gym who don't even seem to understand english.
>>37716453
>you've never actually done steroids have you
>it seems like you're citing shit you've heard others say, trying to probe a response for approval
No I haven't.
But I have been browsing people's steroid progress pictures and logs. They seem to put on a lot of strength and mass with relatively little doses. Have you used them?
>you are still playing a risky game with medical issues down the line, if you're unlucky it will be devastating
What are the legitimate risks of a single cycle of testosterone?
>>37714653
This
>>37716461
>> Literally no one cares for your body unless you are skelly or fat
I care about it. i've gotten bullied growing up for how I look. Also I have low testosterone naturally and I constantly feel like shit.
>> Getting buff actually makes people think you are a meathead. You have to compensate with charisma. But that's no problem because you're a charismatic guy, aren't you anon?
I don't care if people think i'm a meathead
>> Getting buff, and being all about that gym life will get you a gym whore.
Doesn't sound half bad
>> Almost any other hobby will make you way more interesting to others. Like playing an instrument, drawing, playing actual sports, etc.
What if I do have other hobbies? What if I told you that I have a wide range of hobbies I regularly practice and enjoy. And I just want a better physique and to feel better?
>> Regarding overall looks, more defined abs or a little bigger chest will have a neglectable impact. Most important are: face, height, frame (not meme'ing here), clothing style, hygene, confident posture, etc.
What if those are already perfected
>> Girls consider Efron mode already as too much. They only find him hot cause of 9/10 face (well until they find out he is like 5'8...) And i know this because a friend of mine looks like efron, and multiple girls (attractive, fit girls) have told me that they find it too much.
What if girls don't know what they want and they constantly contradict themselves?
And that you can't lump half the world population into "liking" or "disliking" something
>>37716474
>What are the legitimate risks of a single cycle of testosterone?
the long term effects of one cycle are typically not grave... but the short term effects can be fairly serious if you're unlucky and have no medical supervision.. and usually a person does NOT do one cycle and then call it quits
it becomes something they can do just one more time (as they see their results dwindling) -- or maybe two- three cycles per year becomes "ok" and so on
even if you mange to keep it to one cycle, you're not going to see anything close to the progress these 'steroid pictures & logs' are showing, not at all.
don't take steroids
>>37716383
B-bump
>>37716524
>the long term effects of one cycle are typically not grave... but the short term effects can be fairly serious if you're unlucky and have no medical supervision.. and usually a person does NOT do one cycle and then call it quits
What if I get regular bloodwork done?
I just want to try a single cycle to see how it makes me feel and then I will blast and cruise for ever
>>37716468
this. it really just boils down to wether you are content with being a natty of not. if yes, then ok, if not, research and roid.
>>37716542
sure if you get a medical service involved it will be much safer
unless you're planning on making a living with your body, don't take steroids, don't complicate the process
eat clean, lift on schedule, live a long & fruitful life
>>37716571
>unless you're planning on making a living with your body, don't take steroids, don't complicate the process
Why not? It seems like it would make the process only simpler.
>mfw the health consequences roiders will face when they get older
>>37716605
not healthy, short-term plan
play for the long-term
>>37716630
>Natty cope
>>37716644
I love being natty. I get complements all the time on my body and from every girl I've been with
You don't need roids to look good.
>>37716696
this is b8
>>37716440
why not just try a cycle first before you think about the longterm full on blast and cruise?
>>37714469
waiting on some bitcoins to transfer right now.
>tfw im finally going to make it
>>37716461
>> Almost any other hobby will make you way more interesting to others. Like playing an instrument, drawing, playing actual sports, etc.
the fuck does this have to do with anything?
you're still lifting on or off roids. that 5 minutes of pinning your ass twice a week doesn't change anything.
the idea that you will become arnold overnight because you're pinning is also pretty fucking dumb
>>37716788
we gonna make it bro
>>37714592
Roids permanently give you more nuclei in your muscle fibers. Nattys can never increase nuclei, only increase the cell size
>>37716901
>Roids permanently give you more nuclei in your muscle fibers
Sounds great
Steroids are a simple risk–benefit analysis analysis for most people.
Everyone's desires and goals are different, and anyone who denies the gains you make on roids isn't impressive is fooling themselves.
But there's plenty of risk with it as well, up to and including the risk of losing your life.
Is it worth it? depends entirely on the person
Do research, read the horror stories, read the success stories, and come to your own conclusion.
>>37716032
lol keep doing what you're doing
don't worry about what Eddie Hall is doing
>>37714592
http://www.mn.uio.no/ibv/english/research/news-and-events/news/2013/kortvarig-dopingbruk-kan-ha-permanente-effekter.html
It seems steroids may permanently increase total nuclei in muscle fibres, thus increase the maximum size potential for the muscle. Steroids are better for muscle memory.
>>37717416
sounds like you know what you're doing man, what are you waiting for? pin dat ass
>>37716017
it's spouted by people who didn't use proper pct and haven't a single clue about proper nutrition lol
>>37717416
>Steroids are better for muscle memory.
what the fuck i was just arguing with some faggot about that
god damn it they said it was bullshit
>>37716331
You risk shutting down and needing trt for the rest of your life.
You'll definitely have shit form and not make anywhere near the gains you think you should be making.
Beginners gain muscle and strength faster than frauds at elite levels anyway so why not do your cycle later on if you're 'just doing one' or why not just roid forever if you wanna do more than one?
>>37717905
>You risk shutting down and needing trt for the rest of your life.
No. No you don't. There isn't any evidence or research to show that. Your natural testosterone returns fairly quickly, a few weeks with PCT and a couple months without it.
>tfw want to roid but no idea how to get them
>>37717925
I don't understand. It's common knowledge that pinning test comes with a risk of shut down just like insulin can make you diabetic. There's nothing preventing you from getting unlucky on your first cycle.
>>37718010
>It's common knowledge that pinning test comes with a risk of shut down just like insulin can make you diabetic
That happens while you are taking it exogenously. There is no evidence at all to suggest that your testosterone levels do not return to normal after a while.
>>37718021
How long is a while? Losing a couple months of noob gains probably isnt even worth 1 cycle of shit form and at best mediocre programming.
>>37718117
they return to normal "after a while" if you're a retard and you don't PCT
the whole point of PCT is to kickstart your test production back.
>>37718117
>How long is a while? Losing a couple months of noob gains...
A few weeks with PCT. That's what it's there for m8
my point was that your natural test goes back to normal after a while
>>37718151
>they return to normal "after a while" if you're a retard and you don't PCT
>the whole point of PCT is to kickstart your test production back.
Well it still takes time but yeah. We weren't talking about the best way to PCT though, just that your natty test does not "get shut down permanently"
Where can I learn about this stuff? I'm afraid of wreaking my shit because I just don't know anything.
>>37718179
r/steriods
>>37718021
Dude this is so wrong. I have a friend who cruised for years and he is on TRT because that shit does just stop working. It's not the end of the world, he is fine, but it happens.
>>37718002
Ask suspicious guys at the gym?
>>37714766
Very few could do it strict, but there's a lot of people that can at least push press it
>>37716032
It's more similar to a log starting position that way
An olympic press starts in the rack position, yeah.
>>37714827
this guy gets it
but hey hey, you are in /fit/ here they cant afford this life style, and feel shitty about themselves
so instead they are here trying to argue the shit out of roiders to feel superior, natty or not, your strength is more when roided , more mass, more appeal to girls, and if you cant afford this life style dont bitch about those who can.
we all are doing this to bulk up, build muscles, its the end results that we are aiming for... MUSCLES!
for fucks sake this is not a competition on who is more moral doing this shit, this is about getting muscles... period.
>>37720449
>for fucks sake this is not a competition on who is more moral doing this shit, this is about getting muscles... period.
This.
I'm not a competing athlete, I never agreed to not use certain substances for my sport, I never signed a piece of paper. I don't even care about deceiving natties, if it wasn't for the social stigma and being illegal I would wear a shirt that says "I roid, all my gains are fake pls don't look at me im a faggot"
So if someone wanted to just do 1 cycle what would he have to take before, during, and after (and for how long) to minimize side effects and keep gains?
>>37716901
>nattys can never increase their nuclei
Patently false
Was that you in my thread? You're an idiot or a below average troll
>>37720621
testosterone, aromasin and nolvadex, maybe clomid too if you want.
>>37714499
dubs of truth
>>37716963
This is more or less the situation. It is a decision.
People on both sides of the fence.
Denying the additional gains from gear is a dumb way of simplifying the decision while vilifying the people that do. Roids do work... well.
>>37716234
Haha there are no rules and you're still a loser how does it feel to be (you)?
>>37714684
>people who are huge and natty worked 100x harder for their bodies than those who cheat.
Yeah no, fuck off.
The only way getting big natty is eating a shitton of food while lifting, where is that hard? Big nattys dont even need to have theire diet on check because its simply
>get big
>be shredded
Pick 1
People who roid need to do so much more to achieve that unnatural god among men look.
Coming from a natty with roiding friends btw.
>>37716901
>Nattys can never increase nuclei, only increase the cell size
completely wrong. the first few months of a natty lifter is doing nothing but adding new nuclei
and the '''extra'' nuclei that roids create are wasted after the cycle ends anyway, because there isnt enough natural androgen and related body functions to support them
learn2biology
>>37721036
Honestly roiding is way more of a commitment and harder to take than lifting natty.
Lifting natty is just
>Do mild bulks/cuts
>Do a piss-easy, lazy as fuck routine like 3x5 SS or 5x5 intermediate
>Train 3 times a week
>Eat creatine, fishoil and a multi
Roiding actually requires a whole load of other shit, tons of time, money invested, etc.
>>37721091
>>37721036
Nattys will never understand this tho, they make shit up theire mind to justify why they keep wasting time in the gym just to look a little bit better then a mid 30's hubby.
>>37721115
Hey it's cool man, different goals and all
But god damn natties shUt the fuck up
>>37716062
reddit /sst
oils are better.
Dianabol will let you put on 20 pounds in about a month of use but will kill your liver long term
>>37714469
Turn to MMA and have that lethal 170 185 lbs natty limits range depending on your natural size; go for biggest! I am, going for 185 lbs walkin around beast with the strength of when I was 210; I cut down to 156 and am at 162 now.
This is realistic natty limit. Do you want to look like that or get juiced to the gills benching 600 lbs Kimbo Slice style and dieing at what 42?
>>37721178
Living 20 years to the max is better than a hundred natty like a worthless pleb.
>>37721115
>shooting shit into my arse twice a week
>hard
Properly dosing and figuring out your post cycle isn't fucking rocket science. Top kek though
>>37721178
>>37718002
napsgear.org
glhf
>>37721195
>Routine
>Supplements for joints
>Eating correctly
>Money for food
>Money for roids
>Blood work
>>37721115
>>37721091
But roiding powerlifters do stupid as fuck SS-style american programming while natties have to do 5-6 session per week 2 month long cycles like cucks, I don't think you guys actually know anything about training.
>>37721213
none of that is hard you fucking retard.
>>37721190
And that is the mindset you have to have. I just feel sorry for the ones who don't know what they're getting into.
>>37721217
What's more challenging, a Zyzz-tier routine that's a 5 day split where you're spending 20 hours a week in the gym or some gay as fuck 3x5 starting strength where you do 5 reps of deadlift and bench once a week and then go home?
Being a natty is boring and pleb-like
>>37714653
Those
>>37716696
Where's your chest gone?
