For my fitman who I owe tremendously, here we go. Here’s the *first* year of a 2 year progression. I’ll be happy to share the same illustration for the second full year as well (concluded May 2016) if the community cares for this kind of thing. I still have to compile Year 2, so for now I’ll just post up this year 1 collage + current physique (a full year later than the last shown pic here). Ask any questions you like about lessons learned, mistakes made, broscience confirmations/debunking, and so on.
Disclaimer: My goal from day 1 was physique only, with no regard to strength. I aimed to have a chiseled physique reminiscent of Greek/Roman sculptures. This thread is by no means celebrating anything, in fact it’s primarily pointing out the various mistakes made in order to show a realistic depiction of an average fitizens progress during the first year. Mainly how compromising bodyfat% for muscle gains, and vice versa, makes a difference on appearance in the short and long term. A preview ride of the lifting roller-coaster without actually getting on, if you will. Shitposts, trolls and trip-haters all welcome, just don’t be discouraged if I only reply to people with actual questions.
Attaching current physique (end of year 2) for reference, as seen in several cbt's lately.
>>37400687
Son of a...
>tfw when you leave a typo on the very last line.
Ending of year 1 was 145lbs, not 155lbs. Big difference. Corrected in this version. Sorry bout that.
What do you mean by "blew it" on your first bulk?
Any unique advice you could give that doesn't get reposted on /fit/ ad nauseum?
>>37400687
So get cut first, got it.
>>37400755
Ate everything in sight with no regard to calories or macros because /fit/ told me I had to eat big to get big. Lesson learned - bulking anything over +500 calories/day above maintenance TDEE is a fast track to going full hindenburg mode. Truthfully all you really need is about +300 to get max muscle gain while gaining minimal fat.
>>37400812
Don't let one exercise you hate cause you to procrastinate or avoid going to the gym. /fit/ told me squats and deadlifts (compounds in general) were gospel and the only way to make significant gains. I hated leg day every time it came up because I don't enjoy doing squats or deadlifts. Because of this I would skip leg day fairly often. Eventually I found out I could put together a few different leg-isolations that I actually enjoy doing and make the same gains - no more skipping leg day.
Bodypart splits can be 100% as effective for hypertrophy gains as "the big lifts". Pictured is an illustration of wearing the exact same shorts two years apart. Legs have come a long way.
>>37400687
you have my attention
WTF HOW ARE YOU DROPPING AND GAINING 10LBS EVERY MONTH??
How long should I stay on SS for before switching to a split or PPL(Or is there something else you would recommend for physique)?
What sort of foods did you eat on a cut, at how large a deficit, and did you change your lift program while cutting?
Thank you
>>37400874
people should take this advice with a grain of salt (not the bulking stuff)
Just because it 'worked' for some guy doesn't mean it is most optimal to the average lifter. there are reasons that brosplits aren't suggested for natty lifters and you should focus on getting stronger on compounds.
Balcony bro looks good sure, but he is neither particularly big (155lbs/70kg) or strong and have different genetics than you, so don't forget everything you know and follow his advice because he looks good
>>37400816
Mixed emotions on that one. It was a huge psychological encouragement for a guy who was 27 years old and had never seen his abs before to finally reveal them. But in hindsight I honestly wish I went straight to (lean) bulking. In my naive mind I thought I'd go straight to Zyzz mode by getting hella lean. I ended up looking like an emaciated marathon runner, as seen >>37400874.
I know virtually zero skinnyfats will take that advice because "but abs!!!", but that's my 2c.
>>37400926
SS (Starting Strength) is a program specifically designed to gain Strength asap, NOT to look better. They move along different trajectories because they are differend end-goals. If your goal is strength, stay on SS for 6 months before going into PPL. If you want hypertrophy, go straight to PPL now. Just be sure to watch youtube videos about every isolation lift to make sure you're practiving proper form to avoid injury (goes for SS as well).
>>37400963
Back then I thought cutting, dieting in general, meant traditional bodybuilding "brodiet" stuff. Chicken breasts, rice, broccoli, and oats. This was unnecessary when I eventually learned about eating anything IIFYM. Deficit was drastic at times, -1000cals below TDEE + 30mins of cardio. I got better at not yo-yo'ing weight in year 2, requiring only -500 deficit and no cardio at all.
>>37400985
This man is wise and 100% correct. Nothing I spout off should be interpreted as "do this and it WILL work for you". This is merely me recounting what worked for me to achieve my current phys.
How old are you ? Your skin looks old, also that shitty chest why?
>>37401048
what was your diet when bulking?
>>37401056
Starting year 1 I was 27 years old, alt-tabbing between /b/ and WoW for most of my 20's. Never played any sports, 100% sedentary my entire life. End of year 2 (now) I'm 29.
>>37401084
Are you a virgin?
>>37400874
>That
>155
Jesus christ I should just fucking cut. Bulking is a meme at this point.
>>37400874
I have a really hard time believe you are 125lbs in that left picture.
I'm only 5'7 and was 120 in high school and I looked like a holocaust victim even at that height.
Looks more like 140-150 left 160-170 right at 5'9. Also why wax your chest?
>>37401048
So your diet, even now, is IIFYM?
>>37401117
That is because he cut from 145
>>37401077
Diet when bulking back then: Eat anything I could find so long as I always hit 1g protein per lb of bodyweight (later found out this protein intake was overkill).
>>37401099
No, lost it at 17 to highschool sweetheart. She's fat and drinks every day now. gg her.
>>37401106
Careful with that mindset. Being very lean *can* provide the illusion of being much bigger, but as you can see from babby's first cut (June 2014), if you haven't built up sufficient muscle mass underneath, low bodyfat alone won't make you aesthetic. I'm the same BF% now as that June 14 pic, but 30 pounds heavier and looking drastically better thanks to two years of consistent lifting/dieting.
How many exercises per body part would you recommend? Do you change exercises often?
Im done one lift 4x8-12 for every muscle group and im worried its not going to be effective.
How do I KNOW when im growing after I left the gym?
>>37401140
No way you can gain 10-15lbs a month
Did you take any supplements in your first year?
>>37401202
G E N E T I C S.
I've had similar results when I really stick to a diet. A lot of people half ass their calorie intake or don't pay attention to their macros besides calories and protein.
>>37401218
what do eat a day when bulking? Specific foods pls
>>37401140
>I always hit 1g protein per lb of bodyweight (later found out this protein intake was overkill).
So what was your protein intake then? Did you have a meal plan?
>>37401117
Bodyhair trimmer to the torso in order to keep an eye on bodyfat. The mirror is a much better gauge of leanness than lb's on a scale.
>>37401118
Correct, IIFYM now and forever.
>>37401148
On a bodypart split every major muscle group (legs, bis, tris, back, chest, shoulders) should get 4 different isolations each. Then 4-5 sets of each isolation, performed in the 8-12rep range per set. If you can get more than 12 reps then you need to up the weight and repeat the cycle.
Changing exercises - absolutely. The more you lift the more you will learn about the sub-muscles in each major muscle group and how different isolations are better for hitting each respectively. IE - Shoulders are technically three different heads, each of which can be pinpointed with different exercises. (Front raises, side raises, rear delt flies, etc).
You will know you're growing based on both the weight you are capable of lifting and looking back on progress pictures. Take pictures OFTEN, even when you dont feel like you've made progress. You will be glad you did.
>>37401202
When the majority of it is fat it's pretty damn easy, broheim. With my appetite I can eat 4-5k calories a day and put on 20lbs in a month without even trying. Obivously I shouldn't because only 1-2 pounds will be muscle, but it's easy to hit +20 on a scale in one month with a no rules fatty lifestyle.
nice but work your chest more
>>37400687
Nice work, now stop shaving your chest.
>>37401215
>Did you take any supplements in your first year?
Indeed, glad you brought it up because I wasted a ton of money here. I started creatine immediately after my first cut. This turned out to be the only truly effective sup long term as far as adding muscle and assisting with recovery. Fish Oil and a multivatmin were added and have stayed indefinitely as well, but those are general health benefits, not so much for lifting. I'll go more into the bullshit GNC sold me in another post, trying to hit as many different topics as I can tonight.
>>37401230
Eat when bulking - easiest calories with decent protein would be peanut butter imo. Bacon is another good option. Less-lean meats in general still pack high protein but also shove in more calories simaltaneously due to higher fat content.
>>37401233
Protein intake nowadays is roughly 0.8g per lb of LEAN BODY MASS, not overall bodyweight. Which for me is around 120-130g protein/day. There were times when I was shoveling 200g+ of protein in me and farting all the time. Apologies to my gf's from back them.
>>37401237
>>37401238
Chest and glutes are my big goals for year 3. Gotta grow both substantially in order to balance out. Upper chest work especially. I didn't even know about upper/lower/inner chest shit back then.
>>37401295
upper lower middle is a literal meme
>>37401301
I tend to agree about inner chest. But upper chest especially is no joke. Perform incline isolation work versus flat or decline and tell me you don't feel a very distinct difference in the recruitment of muscle throughout your chest. Or read literally any professional physique competitor/bodybuilders thoughts on the subject. AthleanX has some science backed good videos about it as well.
>>37401236
So where do you suggest I learn about which isolations to group together, or does it not matter? I have no problem with being consistent but my main hurdle is in knowing what exercises to do to get my desires physique. Would I look drastically different doing ez bar curls than dumbbell curls. Or rope push downs rather than skullcrushers. Lat raises rather than shrugs. Ect.
>>37400687
I know trip friends catch a lot of flack here for pointlessness, but I sincerely think you are doing good with this, and I hope this style of teaching catches on. Congrats on progress, and I hope you keep improving. Thank you for your contribution.
>>37401333
Finally someone who knows their shit
I don't understand how people want to be cut at 150s. I'm in the 180s and feel small. Fucking body dysmorphia
>>37401048
Tell me about eating at a 1k defecit. Im trying to get to at least 12% BF before summer is over (currently 16%) but I'm on crutches as of right now and can't do full activity for another 6weeks. I'll take the muscle loss, I just want to be fuarkin lean.
>>37401295
>creatine only truly effective sup
fugg I just stopped taking it because it was making my hair thin out faster, guess it's no supps for me
>>37401378
Well it's relative to to your height, but some people understand that being lean is better than being 20% BF w/ muscle and that normies will think you're huge if you're cut.
>>37401338
Youtube is a godsend for this. That's not to say that just because a video has 200k+ views that it's gauranteed to be accurate or what not, but that's why you should watch several and observe which things you hear multiple sources saying are effective. For full well rounded delts try searching "deltoid head isolation exercises" or something along those lines. Same applies for triceps, biceps, back, etc. You'll see that optimally every group needs a mix of different specialized isolations for balanced results.
>>37401339
Thanks man, appreciate it. I wouldn't call it teaching though. I'm not a mentor or role model by any means. Still making mistakes and learning as I go along, just happy to share what I've encountered so far in my journey.
>>37401378
It's all relative to learning about your natty limit...based on FFMI I know I'll never be able to be both lean AND maxed out once I hit 170ish @ 5'9 7-8% BF. That's still another 18-24 months out still (cumulatively 4 or 5 years natty lifting).
>>37401408
Just shave your head lol
>>37401433
Skinny skellington here. At what weight did you start comfortably fitting in tight into clothes.
great thread op
Out of curiosity do you mind posting an example of your workout
>>37401393
What is there to tell? Find your current TDEE and eat -1000 calories below that. It sucks and is grueling and if you can't lift due to crutches you will go catabolic very quickly, but that's a tradeoff/choice you have to make. If I were in that situation I'd honestly sit at maintenance and keep protein intake high until I'm able to lift again. Save as many muscle gains you've made as you can. At -1000 they will literally get eaten while you're laid up in crutches.
>>37401470
Funny question...but for my frame and height I need to stay below 12% BF in order to look good in tailored/fitted pants and shirts. Keep in mind it's not about weight, not at all. My waist at 125lbs was 29", and it's the exact same now at 155lbs. At peak bulk I hit about 32" and can't fit into my good looking clothes. The key is what ratio of those pounds is lean muscle versus fat.
>>37401462
Did the hair loss rebound when you stopped? Creatine is not an AAS, it doesn't impact hormone levels in a significant way. I'd try another go at creatine so long as you didn't notice the hair loss to be permanent. Worst case is you notice it start again, then drop it again.
>>37401433
Mirin your progress. Definitely shows dedication and you have just become my inspiration just as im getting back into /fit/ness
What are mistakes you have learned from that you will not repeat again?
>>37400687
Saw you post some routine tips earlier on and wanted to thank you for it, I'm planning on starting a new weight lifting regime and yours sounded good. I hate squats and dead lifts so I'm glad to know I'm not the only one lol. Since you're aiming on getting a bigger chest I'd like to recommend you try out weighted pushups (normal, knuckle, diamond, elevated). I tossed books and weights into a backpack and it really helped get my chest bigger fast, maybe it can help you. Cheers m8
>>37400687
Broke my foot/tibia/heel and lost my routine during the spring semester, losing what feels like a full year of progress. My squat has dropped 70 lbs, which feels like shit.
Have you had any major setbacks / periods of recession?
>>37401508
how big are your arms cold and with a pump?
>>37401504
Current routine, keep in mind this is tailored to address my own weak points (upper chest and glutes specifically) with less attention on areas that are up to par already.
ABCABCx
(A) Day – Chest and Biceps
(B) Day – Leg’s and Triceps
(C) Day – Back and Shoulders
(X) Day – Rest, no lifting
Triceps
Cable kick backs
Rope push down
DB Skull crushers
Overhead rope extension
Legs
Weighted Hyper tensions extension bench
Leg curl
Leg extension
Glute kickbacks
Shoulders
Front raises
Side raises
Overhead press
Rear delt fly / Facepulls
Back
Pull ups
Lat pull downs (varying grip attachments per session)
Seated rows (varying grip attachments per session)
Straight arm pull down
Chest
Incline dumbbell bench press
Single arm sideway incline machine press
Low position cable flys
High position cable flys
Biceps
Preacher DB curl
Side DB hammer curl
Concentration curls
Hammer curl
>>37401508
It hasn't been long enough since I stopped to be able to say for sure. I was only using it for two months. I stopped taking it because I read a lot articles and anecdotal evidence talking about it increasing DHT levels, which will accelerate hair loss if you're already prone to male-pattern baldness. I couldn't find any studies done with any conclusive evidence, but someone that hadn't seen me in those two months mentioned that my hair looked thinner on the sides the other day so I stopped taking it.
>>37400687
>mirin made up weight data
>>37401587
>(X) Day – Rest, no lifting
>>37401587
don't ignore me bro..... >>37401583
>>37401583
probably 13" cold
>>37401587
how do you go about deciding WHICH of the myriad variations of isolation exercises to do for biceps, in particular?
ATM all i am doing for isolation are seated dumbbell curls, but i've somehow been stalled at the same weight for over a month. how can i break this?
>>37401523
Thx anon. Most of my mistakes were diet related, trying all these different fads thinking that there had to be more to it simple calories in calories out. Unless you are a professional athlete or competitor, all you need to focus on is hitting your protein and caloric goal per day. Let fats and carbs fall however you want them based on what your body is craving. Literally if it fits your macros.
>>37401575
My major setback was getting severe Mono, denying it in my mind which led to an immune system failure. Doctor required no lifting for 6 weeks, which led to depression and awful emotional eating habits ensued. It was extremely hard to get re-motivated after that. All I could think about the first day back at the gym was being embarrassed, that people were probably looking at me thinking how I fell off, dyel, etc. In the real world no one gives a flying fuck about your progress, and even if they did, it will never be enough to impress everyone. Gotta do it for you and thats it.
>>37401583
Arms are about 15.5". Nothing big by /fit/ standards, but they are actually my #1 compliment from normies. Grill on a date told me that if they got any bigger I would be "one of those guys with arms bigger than his head, not a good look". Being proportionate is all that matters. Look at middle bottom pic of current phys, being lean makes a huge difference in appearance with arms. Having 18" fatceps that are only hard when you're flexing is the kind of thing girls laugh at.
>>37401699
For biceps read about which isolations focus on the long head versus short head. Choose 2 isolations for each head (total of 4 exercises). That'll provide balanced development going forward.
Prior to what is pictured in OP how long did you lift/exercise beforehand?
>>37401787
Literally zero. Didn't even play sports as a kid. All my life I made fun of guys that went to the gym, thought it was some mindless jock thing. Now I can't imagine life without it. Had no idea of the complexities that go into building a balanced physique, staying on top of your diet, the long term goal setting, all the discipline required.
>>37401839
Hmm, neat.
What the hell brings you to /fit/? I'm still reading through the whole thread.
How do you deal with being hungry on a cut, what kind of core do you do, do you drink, how much do you bench, and so you do no squats? Why not deadlift, feel like you could work on having some dope traps
>>37401726
>Arms are about 15.5".
lol
keep telling yourself that
how to avoid injury with lateral raises, OP?
i messed up my shoulder when i first started doing them, babby weights, turned shoulders inward as though pouring pitchers of water (which seems to be the recommended execution).
>>37401048
How were your strength gains on PPL?
Weak skelly here, aiming for aesthetics
>>37400687
kudos for losing the weight, but his chest, delts, and traps are shit.
>those 4arms
He shouldn't of even tried in the first place.
>>37401899
Formerly a /b/tard of many years. I kept seeing Zyzz's face on meme's and such, had no idea who he was or why anyone cared about him. Someone pointed me towards /fit/ to explain.
Lurked for a while just laughing at the gym humor stuff, learned about Scooby and all the old tripfags. Got to wondering how much time/effort it *really* takes to build a muscular body, not simply lose weight. I dramatically underestimated that estimation...I figured 6-12 months, hence me cutting first thing thinking I would look ripped if I just lost some weight. Continued lurking /fit/ for advice learning about routines and diet, but came to understand that half the shit posted here is troll's trolling trolls. Hence my desire to stay here and offer what I can to people who are in that same stage I was then. Always take what you read here (this thread included) as a suggestion, but follow it up with your own supplemental research.
>>37401904
When cutting I rely heavily on high volume-low calorie foods + lots of caffiene. I don't do any core work, waste of time unless you need the strength for compound lifts. I definitely drink, whiskey and coke zero is #1. I don't like deadlifting due to the stress on the CNS. I feel overly drained after 4 sets of DL's, which affects the rest of the days routine. Trap's are on par, nothing freakish but not underdeveloped either.
>>37402008
Don't go heavy on any of the shoulder iso raises. Always warmup your rotator cuff from all 4 angles with a 5lb DB (youtube for instructions). Working sets shouldn't be heavy, focus on very slow controlled reps. When you think you're going slow, go even slower.
>>37402013
Strength gains have been linear on my ABCABC routine (which is a heavily modified PPL, really to the point of little resemblance) but seeing as I don't do compounds, it's not like you aim to increase your max by 5lbs every other session like other regimens.
>>37402057
Meant to post traps pic but got distracted by zyzz thought.
So, you've been doing 6 days/week for the past 2 years?
>>37400687
gains dont count
you're a manlet
any manlet can look "jacked" in six months. still doesnt make up for the fact that you're 5'9". you just look overcomponsating. like all manlets.
>>37402073
During the 6-12 month range I did ABxABxx, with three muscle groups each A and B day. This worked just as well as ABCABC but each session was 2+ hours longs having to hit 4 sets on three muscle groups each. Two hours in the gym is a bit long for my taste, so I split it out into ABCABC and now each session is about 1:15.
>>37402082
lanklet hate
hey
is it reasonable to be concerned about losing gains when transitioning from one routine to another (or at the very least, supplementing certain lifts for others)? i realize that i will need to do so to target specific areas of weakness, but i'm hesitant because DESU as a moderate newbie several of my lifts are on machines--which are probably inefficient in the long run--but the weight i can handle on the machines are MUCH heavier than their free-weight counterpart movements. on the shoulder press machine, for example, i'm on 110 lbs but am only breaking 60 (two 30lb DBs) on the frees.
i know that the frees are more functional, but how do i avoid losing muscle mass with by transitioning to them?
>>37402149
There should be zero muscle loss when switching routines or substituting different lifts/methods. You only lose muscle as a result of not training a muscle at all, or not feeding it adequately through your diet.
The difference in the number on the side of the plate, machine, or dumbell is contextual, only a measurement of what you can lift on that one specific exercise on that one specific movement. I'd encourage you to try all three as they can all be used interchangeably based on your own preference or accounting for injuries.
>>37402176
What's your opinion on the popular trend on fit that hypertrophy routines are a meme and strength routines is the only way to go for a natty? Most research seem to point at strength rep range = hypertrophy as well as strength for most people and what defines your physique is mostly diet and not your routine.
Hey fit. Im a newb lifter looking for a.mix of strength and asthetics,but mostly mass, im 6'1 160lbs skinny fat. Should I ppl(brosplit) or stay on SS..Also, should I bulk or cut(skinnyfat mode)
>>37401587
What hits lats more, Pull ups or the pulldown?
your shoulders are still really shit to be honest
>>37400687
>>37400703
>>37400741
>>37400874
Yo Balconybro, i have a question regarding your experience with cutting. I'm in no way an advanced lifter (i've been lifting with good diet for 6ish months) and now i'm cutting for summer but i've been going really slow due to fear of loosing muscle (1lb/week or less some bad weeks i cheat too much or skip cardio).
But i see in your 1st year pic that you lost in one month (last 2 progress pics) 7lbs, and honestly, you looked quite fine.
My question is wether you saw any significant muscle loss in that month loosing fat at that rate. And what kind of diet did you follow? (low carb, keto, low carb-high carb days....)
Congrats, Balconybro. I'm 27 and just started lifting, so you give me inspiration to keep at it. I just want to be happy with myself both physically and financially by the time I'm 30.
>>37402195
This one is very clear. It's a fact that your muscle size (not muscle strength) will undeniably grow on a strength routine, no debate there. But it's also a fact that the FASTEST and highest ceiling for muscle size (aka hypertrophy) is a routine designed specifically for that, aka bodypart splits. The entire sport of bodybuilding is the simple proof of this. Look at the guys. In 99/100 examples top tier BB'ers dwarf in size top tier powerlifters despite being substantially weaker than them. This is because they structure their routine to grow muscle size via sets in the hypertrophic range.
>>37402269
Pullups versus pulldowns are largely interchangeable, especially taking into consideration all the different width grips and attachments for each. Doing both is the best solution, but either way so long as they are approached with progressive overload each will grow lats. Pulldowns are especially useful because it's a lot easier to start with less than your bodyweight and work up as opposed to doing assisted/weighted pullups.
>>37402275
I'm trying to get them on your level. Hopefully by year 11 or 12 as I can only imagine what yours look like based on your post.
>>37400921
juice
>>37401726
>All I could think about the first day back at the gym was being embarrassed, that people were probably looking at me thinking how I fell off, dyel, etc.
Holy shit, this is identical to my thoughts this week. Nice to know I'm not a special snowflake
>>37402204
What are your lifts in relation to your height weight?
>>37402324
Muscle atrophy when cutting is dramatically overstated on /fit/. Unless you go well below -500 calories/day, stop getting your protein, and completely stop training, you shouldn't see major strength drops. Talking maybe 10-15% over the course of an entire 6-8 week cut. If you are more than 10% weaker on a lift compared to the same lift last week, that's more likely a sign of general fatigue due to lower calories and/or depleted glycogen from the cut, not literal muscle loss. Brush it off, make sure the next time you hit that lift you're fully fed and rested. If it's still substantially lower you are likely cutting too hard. My diet during that end of year 1 cut was just reduced calorie IIFYM, no special carb manipulation or anything.
>>37402325
That's whats up man. Hitting the big 3-0 knowing you are in vastly better shape than 95% of your peers is a good feeling. Honestly you'll already be at that point after year 1. Year two is just when jimmies start rustling even louder. And great point on the finances. Throughout all of these two years I have grown my career working 40+ hours a week + went back to college to finish my degree, taking as many as 5 classes per semester on top of the full time career + lifting. I learned I had been severely underachieving for a very long time.
>>37400687
>gaining 10 pounds of lean mass a month, consistently
is there some non-natty magic going on?
Yo is your bedroom really the balcony?
>>37402440
>implying it's all lean
Anon, pls.
>>37402416
I've never even attempted to find out what my 1RM, 3RM, 5RM "lifts" are. They would probably be quite low if you look at it solely through the lense of "you lifted for two years, so that means you should be able to squat/dl/bench <x> plates. Those numbers mean nothing to me and never will. That's a different sport that I don't even train for, I don't even do those lifts in my hypertrophy routine. It would be like me telling a fat powerlifter "you lifted for two years but you look like you haven't left the couch once, you clearly did it wrong". Different goals, different results.
>>37402455
I sleep out here sometimes when the weather permits, so kind of yeah. It's cozy, I like watching the people go by and just chilling with my laptop hanging out on /fit/. I spend more time here than in my actual bedroom for sure.
>>37402471
This. You can see just based on the beginning and end photos that it took me a year to go from 145 lbs to...145lbs. But all the ups and downs between were spikes in bodyfat and incremental muscle gains, weighing as low as 125 and as high as almost 160. Lots of yo-yo'ing that first year but all said and done, based on holding BF% from each of the low points, I gained about 12 lbs of pure lean muscle mass. This is in line with what pretty much any natty can expect given consistent lifting for a full year, maybe even a couple more pounds if they are better with their diet than I was.
>>37400985
There should be a rule stating that you have to post a new picture of yourself to give advice.
You're a fucking manlet, you weigh as much as a 12 year old girl and on top of that you have no V-taper and you look like absolute shit.
Why would you give out advice and why would anybody take advice from you ?
You are shit and your advice is shittier.
Will you ever learn?
Also post your lifts so that I can laugh at them.
>>37400687
you have no chest, or arms really
>>37402590
91 pounds 59" reporting in, lookin cute feelin cute
>>37400921
>>37400921
They're called ectomorphs for a reason faggot
U on roids?
>>37402542
i can understand not wanting to be compared to powerlifts, but having no interest in strength, even for your own personal growth, is completely bizzare to me.
>>37402542
What do you think of PPL routines ? Are they effective, if you ever tried one ?
>>37402746
ppl is basically just a 3day brosplit
of course it's effective
>>37402728
I actually really respect powerlifters, just as I do any athlete who pushes their mental and physical limits. Their prize for their effort (being able to move a shit ton of raw weight, far more than most humans) simply doesn't entice me though. It's indeed a bizarre thing to understand why x motivates y person in z way. So long as that motivation ends with happiness and fulfillment for each persons respective goals, that's what counts.
>>37402746
Hit on PPL and various routine thoughts earlier in this thread. tldr - PPL is great, probably the safest bet for hypertrophy gains. Just tweak it based on your preference for compounds versus isolations, machines vs free weights, etc.
>>37401048
>SS (Starting Strength) is a program specifically designed to gain Strength
>There is no good strength athletes that use SS
>There is no good coaches that use SS on their strength athletes
>>37402836
Why the fuck would serious strength athletes - who need full training cycles to see any real improvement - use a beginners routine that is entirely dependent on being weak enough to rapidly add strength?
>>37402836
>Professional athletes don't use Starting Strength
>Starting Strength
>Starting
Hmmm, I wonder why.
>>37402870
Are you idiot? There no is good coaches that use SS even with beginners.
>>37402875
What do they use and where did you get this info?
Seriously asking.
>>37401587
How much set/reps ?
What do you think about 5x5 ?
>>37401587
>i don't care about str
>4 types of curl
this guy is a walking meme
>>37400687
>that bulge
>>37400687
Wow man, all these vitriolic faggots.
You're a helpful and chill bloke.
I only dislike you being a manlet, since that means I can't use you as an indication for my own 6'3" gains.
>>37400687
bro you are so fucking small not even telling you to become a fat powershitter but seen guys your height shredded with at least 30 lbs on you natty
pls train legs..
>>37400687
No legs no mass no arms no chest no strength and no v taper Jesus Christ what do you have going for you?
>>37403985
You're going to deny that he doesn't look good? Bro has a better physique than 99% of the population, you niggers are deluded.
>>37400687
I dont mean to be a negative nancy but visible gains in one month + weight lost?
Did you juice or lift/cardio/lift/REST/cardio/lift/cardio wtf? I'm a bit skeptical.
>>37404354
It's funny how so many people don't understand there is an ideal height weight ratio for looking nice shredded and attractive.
5'9 180lbs cut does not look attractive to most people.
>>37402975
Morning fitfam! I crashed out last night around this post, 2am my time. Picking back up where we left off, gonna be a chill day so I'll be on top this this thread shooting the shit and answering Q's all day.
Set/reps - Standard hypertrophy protocol is 4 sets each exercise performed in the 8-12 rep range. By he time you can hit 12 reps with good form you should be able to up the weight and go back down to 8 reps. Never tried 5x5 so I can't speak on that one.
>>37403330
wat? The exct same volume every other muscle gets.
>>37403895
/fit/ and 4ch in general is where people go to let out their repressed feelings, good or bad as they may be. They can't say these things in real life so they say them here. No biggy, if them hating me helps them somehow, go for it.
>>37403939
30 lbs of lean muscle on me is 185lbs, 15 pounds above natty limit of ~170lbs. I'd seriously question their natty cards friend.
>>37405428
Visible gains in a month are almost always due to significant BF drop. Look at anyone who loses 15-20lbs in a month (who's already not overweight) and you'll see dramatic changes. It was the most aggressive (and first, if you're talking about the first two pics) cut I ever did. Starved myself with at least -1000cal/day + cardio. As mentioned, this thread is pointing out MISTAKES made, definitely not "go do this".
>>37405780
alright thx
>>37401333
What are your thoughts on reverse grip flat bench instead of incline ?
>>37400687
Looks great. Obviously at the beach you look great. Do people think you look good in clothes or would you have to be bigger?
>>37405780
>30 lbs of lean muscle on me is 185lbs, 15 pounds above natty limit of ~170lbs. I'd seriously question their natty cards friend.
I suppose depends on how lean you want to be if you want to be in the 8-10% region then probably these guys aren't (can't judge bfat by eyes to be honest that well but they do have obvious abs and no flab)
Either way everyone obviously has their own goals but I just find you to be a bit too small imho.
>>37402875
what good coach is training beginners? how does that make sense in your brain?
>>37405876
Can't say I've ever tried reverse grip bench, the only thing I know is that it's intended to help people who feel uncomfortable stress on the front delts when benching normally. Probably good for returning from an injury, easing your way back into benching.
>>37405896
I get comments on my physique pretty regularly wether it's at work, on dates, meeting new people in general. Obviously I'm clothed in those scenarios, so it's definitely noticeable. The biggest thing is filling out the arms and shoulders in t-shirts. That alone immediately sets you apart from the average guy who's shoulders hang over, shirt floats around him (or the opposite, hugging his love handles and you can see his belly button).
>>37405952
I'm going to help you out with perspective because you're seriously off. Go look up Men's Physique competitors, these are fitness models competing on the Olympia stage, the top 0.01% of lifters before getting into full on Men's Classic Bodbybuilding. The guys at my height, even an inch taller at 5'10, COMPETE ON STAGE weighing in around 165-175lbs. I should also add the only way to get on that stage is by placing at/near the top of already extremely competitive qualifying BB competitions.
That's really amazing that you have multiple friends who are out-massing the top 0.01% by 10+ pounds of pure muscle. And all natty too? Wow, that's unbelievable. Literally unbelievable, that is. The friends you have are significantly higher BF% than you think they are, are much taller, and/or using AAS. It's not physiologically possible for them to be none of the above.
>>37406118
It is most likely the higher bf% because honestly natty bbers are a joke and look small as fuck.
>>37406145
>>37406118
Also don't forget that a bber trains for some god knows weird proportions which is further explained by your nolegs
>>37405780
If the best hypertrophy protocol is 4 sets in 8-12 then wouldint doing those different exercises in the same muscle group and range end up damaging that?
I know your aiming for different parts of the muscle but surely there is some overlap.
You look good now but holy shit you wasted an entire year, noob gains and all, for 10lbs.
You should be able to get 40lbs in your first 2 years of lifting easily. I got ~30 in 14 months and I am definitely not a fast gainer.
You look good tho
>>37400703
>Super dry look
>Proportionally big delts
>Super red looking, especially upper chest/neck
Did you seriously roid and stay under 170lbs? What the fuck m8, quit being such a twink.
>>37406573
I'm not doubting whatsoever that you gained that much weight. Look at my pics, I put on 30 lbs throughout that year at times as well, but there's a massive difference between putting on lb's and putting on lean muscle. That said, may I see pictures of the before and after 30 lbs? It would be helpful for everyone to see.
Without AAS use there simply is no way to push the human body beyond the widely accepted max of 1lb lean muscle per month, maybe with perfect diet and routine a couple extra throughout the year. Not to be harsh but I'm guessing at least half of the weight you gained was fat.
>>37406789
dorian rider plz go.
There's a difference between lean vs dry appearence, google image it. In this very thread several people say my delts are UNDER-developed, obviously you disagree. And maybe I'm blind to it since i'm looking at pictures of myself, but I just see me looking more tan than the average joe. Because I prefer to stay tan.
All that aside, I could go and list all the roid-meme shit that "proves" I don't roid either (never any acne, always full head of hair, consistent vascularity since dyel 125 pounds, same with rounded delts, etc) but then you would just say "well those symptoms only appear in SOME cases". Which is true, and this is why /fit/ is completely misguided when it comes to looking at images of people and proclaiming roids or not. It's the exact same as looking at a picture and guessing how much they lift. It's baseless and only people who aren't content with their own progress tend to do such things.
>>37406145
>natty bbers are a joke and look small as fuck.
Yeah, but non-natty bbers are not totally fucking gay-ass delusional freaks who really believe what they do matters to anyone outside of their circlejerk of gay ass delusional repressed homo insecure miserable overcompensating faglords who literally spend all their time trying to "appear" healthy and strong--- instead of just living.
>>37400874
>
Bodypart splits can be 100% as effective for hypertrophy gains as "the big lifts". Pictured is an illustration of wearing the exact same shorts two years apart. Legs have come a long way.
bullshit
what are your big lifts ?
youre training for 2 years and say this kind of crap makes me mad
if youve done a full body routine for 1 year and then did a brosplit you would have an impressive physique but what you have now is not impressive at all what are you like 155lbs? whats the point of being this small when you arent even competing in any sport with weight class its not aesthetic or anything
why im giving you all this crap?
coz u say dumb shit like huehueh bro split is like full body
no
>>37402363
fucking bodybuilders gained some decent strength before starting your shitty bro split routines
literally all great bodybuilders used to powerlift
>>37407551
Absolutely in fact being so obsessed with your body image is a womans trait much less oiling yourself up and going in a speedo infront of other men is just mentally ill, however at least they are big and fairly strong. Natty bbers and people like OP are small weak and have twig legs which is what makes it a joke.
>>37405780
>4 sets
why not 3?
>>37400994
I'm 5'9 and 180 in the middle of losing a bunch of weight. I never imagined having to cut down to 125 before gaining weight. My plan was to start gaining slowly at 150. This could change as I get there, but what weight do think wold be ideal to begin gaining?
>>37408059
>>37407984
>Butthurt fatty 'power lifter' the post
>>37408423
im not fat and im not even a powerlifter i used to wrestle not long ago
/fit/ is just filled with retards like you that have no discipline and want to look the easiest achievable "fit" body and claim its the most aesthetic or some shit
>>37406976
What's your ab routine
>>37406789
fucking retard
>>37408504
there is no health benefit to being 185lb at 5'9. Go find me someone who is and let me put them through literally any stamina test and see how they do.
As a former Marine I have met 100's of idiots that think because they are big they are fit/strong/tough and out of all of them they all sucked at everything except lifting. They were fucking useless and held everyone back 90% of the time. Have fun with your destroyed joints and bone structure because your body wasn't meant to hold that much weight For a long period of time you fat ass.
I've always wondered: when people take progress pictures, are they flexing? Or do you guys let the fat hang where it may?
>>37408781
This... jesus fucking christ won't somebody listen to this. The utter mentai illness of the " online fitness" community is beyond stupidity... it's the proof that men, when separated and isolated from the companionship of women and the social responsibility of family, become increasingly insecure and gay.
>>37408960
If you were to take a picture of your physique for the entire world to judge... wouldn't you flex?
>>37402542
Based. All your comments are informative and rational. And I want a balcony now. Please always post.
>>37402590
literally a stereotype of a shit posting troll who is so obviously addicted to the smell of shit that comes spewing from his puckered anus of a mouth. Die.
>>37409158
Not necessarily. We're all anon and I would stay anon by covering up my face somehow. The judgement angle is just not there (for me at least). Some people may take their before picture with a fat gut and take the next picture flexing for "those sick gains, bruh." Either way, I think you'd have to be consistent, else you lie to yourself.
>>37408781
heuheuhe im former marine
held back at what killing unarmed children?
not even american
>>37409483
I'd kill your unarmed children if given the opportunity so your fuckstain genetics and insight could no longer plague this universe.
>>37400687
Balcony bro you are by far my favorite tripfag on /fit/. You have any advice for me? I started lifting 4 mos ago and ate 30% deficit which I now realized was a mistake. I am eating at maintenance now with no noticeable fat gains do you think I should be eating more? Current body pic related
>Inb4 dyel
>Inb4 traps and shoulders need work
>>37409698
Do a well calculated lean bulk, only around +300 cals to get the max muscle growth without the fat.
>>37400687
Goal physique desu, what routine would you recommend for aesthetics, just PPL?
>>37409698
Not him but i may be able to help you.
The way i see it you have 3 options:
1)Cut with +500calories a day above maintenance and have super gainzzz on the gym but also fat gains. Then cut when you can't stand being a fatty anymore (Bulk/cut philsophy).
2) Eat +200/+300 calories a day (lean bulk) and get less gains but make the bulk longer, aka: stay lean longer until you need to cut.
3) Stay at maintenance and get slow gains but almost no fat at all.
There is no "correct" option. It all depends on your goals and how your body responds.
For example me: i gain fat REALLY easily, hence eating at +500calories is a no option, and i like as a personal preference staying lean (fat as a kid trauma). So i eat at +200calories through the winter, and when i'm 15%BF i hit maintenance until i recomp to 10%, and if i go too slow i cut before summer.
>>37409800
>>37409845
Thanks for the advice guys I gain fat pretty easily so I'm gonna continue eating slightly above maintenance and see how my body reacts
>>37410169
Good luck bro, you don't look fat as you do now, just stay lean, gain muscle and you'll look good.
Back on the balcony for the rest of the night! Pic from after hitting legs earlier: quad-teardrops in heaven for the trolls I triggered, please accept my apology.
>>37408655
I don't work abs, haven't done a crunch or leg raise since I was just starting out.
>>37408960
Flexing.
>>37409698
Thanks for the nice words, same goes to everyone else who chimed in when someone tried to turn this into a compound vs iso or hypertrophy vs strength thing. It's neither.
You are looking good for 4 mos. As another anon suggested you would do well to lean bulk at +300 for another 6 months or so, followed by a cut just to check on how well everything is coming in.
>>37409825
Yes sir, PPL is a great routine for aesthetics. Just find any version to start, then carefully substitute relevant exercises that you feel the best mind-muscle connection with.
Have you tried any PWOs and do you think any of them are worth anything?
>>37411349
Yeah I've tried several. C4 is the one I go to most often, with an added scoop of straight Beta-Alanine. For a long time I used it every workout to the point it felt like a PWO ritual that I *should* do, not that I needed to. So I dropped it, now only use it on days where I haven't had any other caffeine beforehand. I wouldn't consider it an important sup, merely another form of getting in some extra energy and focus for those sluggish days. One thing to watch for is that many of them contain creatine. So if you are for example trying to cycle off creatine, you would be unknowingly sabotaging yourself through your PWO if you weren't aware.
FYI to anyone who cares, some nice anons said they wanted to keep track of me and suggested I start an instagram a couple weeks ago. There's nothing there that isn't already found here, it's not a "personal" account, just cross-posts that don't dissapear after a few a days. @balcony_bro
>>37411612
cool, thanks. I think I'll stick to black coffee for my PWO then
>>37411297
Sup bro, think we've talked a bit before. Fellow 2 year lifter here, Natty as well. Tried to use my progress pics without Filters this time, lol.
I feel like I've been approaching my limit. I've made almost 0 gains these past 6 months, despite putting up an increase in all my lifts (Just hit 3 plate bench), and even dropping a bit of BF (measured at 7-8% last week) in the process.
I feel like every week I'm going absolutely at my limit. I eat literally perfect, I never have a cheat meal, always sleep 8 hours, and every workout is really intense. I had to switch to a Upper/Lower 4x per week, as I kept struggling with injuries and lack of overall progress (make some, hurt, have to recover, etc) whenever I lifted more often. I'm currently been eating at a 200 calorie surplus since November. Do you find that you can lift more as you jump your cals? If so, how much? I'd consider going to 500+ if I could go 5x per week, but if I had to go to 750+ or more...eh....
DESU, Some days I consider going back to a big Bulk/Cut cycle so I can eat more and go back to a 6 day PPL, but It took so damn long to cut to this BF that I can't just say fuck it gain all that mass back. There's also /fraud/, but I can't bring myself to juice quite yet.
Not really sure what I'm asking you. Just trying to say I appreciate the amount of work you put in, it's a hell of a struggle, always turning down fast food, beers, making sure you sleep. It's just immensely hard some days when I'm exhausted and I feel like I look the same today as I did in January, despite all my hard work. Thanks for posting this, appreciate knowing there are others out there.
>>37411670
Fuck dude, if you're natty (I mean that as a compliment)maybe there is hope for me yet that's amazing progress for that time frame. How the hell do you stay so lean? Just lean bulk until for a while then cut when you gain too much fat?
>>37411728
It looks like he already had a decent amount of muscle under his fat when he started.
He probably means seriously lifting for two years.
I'm sure he was doing something before that for years.
>>37411740
>>37411728
I had just completed a 50lb Bulk over the course of almost an entire year (1lb per week :0) at the start of those photos. I was pretty athletic as a kid/in High school, but Never really serious into lifting I turned 26/got out of the military.
I never thought of taking Progress pics until I finished bulking, I really really wish I had. I don't have any pictures of myself from beforehand, I was a pretty private person. I'll look around again and see what I can find, but yeah. I was pretty shy.
As far as staying lean? eh. I weigh and count everything and pretty much eat the same meal everyday.
4 eggs, 8 egg whites, 1.5-2lbs grilled chicken breast, 1lb potatoes, .5-1lb 96% lean beef, and all the lettuce/raw onion/tomato I can eat (usually weighs about to be about 100-150 cals worth).
It sucks. A lot...but you lean to deal with it (Not really, as evidenced by my first post, which was pretty much me experiencing an existential crisis).
>>37411670
Lookin great dude. It sounds like you can pretty safely go at +500 for at least 2-3 weeks to see how that affects your strength gains. Worst case scenario is those extra calories do nothing but go to fat, which totals a max of 4,200 calories, or just under 2lb's of fat - easily dietable off in the matter of a week for someone with your clear discipline. That sounds like a solid expirement and one that I'd be happy to see the results of. Definitely mirin the June 2016 physique.
I can empathize with clinging onto the single digit BF once you obtain it, especially as someone who was previously overweight and had to work extremely hard to get there. But just think of it as a temporary/necessary problem you've already learned to solve. At one point in your life you didn't know Algebra, the expressions seemed confusing and the solutions mysterious, just like fat loss used to seem. But then you learned it and you can solve for solutions with 100% accuracy now. Dieting off fat is the same way. You've already built the (mental) weapon/formula to handle it, use it with the same confidence that you solve an algebra equation.
>>37401140
How much protein do you recommend now
>>37411926
typo on that calorie calculation, meant to be 6,300 total over three weeks. divide by 3,500 = 1.8lbs of fat.
>>37411931
0.8grams per pound of lean body mass.
>>37411670
>that
>natty
>in two years
is this really possible?
>>37411926
>>37411950
Thanks man. My strength has been pretty increasing consistently now, albeit at a slower and slower pace (currently about 5lbs on my 5x5 rep bench every 3 weeks, up to 270 5x5). Squats have been in rehab for about a year since I ruptured most of my low back muscles =/.
Size has been very slow, but I guess that's to be expected. Thanks for reinforcing what I expected, I'll probably bump my surplus to 500ish. Probably need to, I'm consistently starving/sore/exhausted, even at a 4x Upper/Lower. If I gain too quickly, I'll add workout days to 5-6x per week.
Not looking forward to spending even more on food. I'm sure you know that pain.
Btw, super jelly of your lower Ab vein running all the way up. Looks sick. I get crazy vascularity in my chest and arms but my Abs just seem to stay "full" =/.
I see a lot of questions asked that are similar but different to what I would ask so I don't want to seem like I'm asking the same questions here .
From what I gather if someone were to want to go down the path you did then you'd say to do a PPL (2x a week?) And forget about heavy weight.
As for diet, literally just IIFYM.
If you're not caring about the weight you lift how would you go about judging progress? For someone coming say Skinnyfat where they won't see immediate improvement as say a skelly would or a fatso would simply just shrink. Keep your nose to the grindstone and hope it works out on a long enough timeline?
>>37412558
Yes PPL or some modification thereof. As for heavy weight, that is referring to lifts that you can only do 3-5 reps with. Yes, avoid those lifts.
You can and must track + continually progress with the lb's of weights you're using even though you aren't working toward strength as a goal. Your muscle growing in an aesthetically pleasing way is the result of them adapting to the higher and higher demand put upon it (hence simaltaneous strength gains). If you do this you are gauranteed to keep moving on a good timeline.
>>37412831
Ok now as for strength I've been able to look at a binary (yes/no did I add x weight to lift for 3 sets of 5 reps) to gauge my "gains" if you will.
I understand strength and aesthetics aren't mutually exclusive but not nearly at the same rate can one obtain both.
So is there something you'd suggest I read to show about how much weight I should be adding to which lifts on a sessional/weekly/biweekly basis?
>>37412880
Drop the mindset of "how much weight should I be adding". Focus on the # of reps you're able to complete without sacrificing good form. The day you can complete 4 full sets of 12reps (not 12x12x10x8 reps for example), it's time to add the increment of weight, whatever that is. Next time you hit that muscle if you were previously curling 20's and finished as 12x12x12x12, grab the 22.5 or 25's. You'll find out real fast if you went too high.
>>37408187
bump for this
pls answer balconybrah
>>37413301
volume
>>37400687
Didn't read
An adult human male weighs over 200lbs, get lost kid
>>37413301
Because 3 sets (8-12 reps less) would not fully meet the optimal amount of time under tension a given muscle needs in order to interpret the *need* to grow. You simply wouldn't be stressing the muscle enough for it to feel the need to grow stronger.
Balconybro still in thread?
>inb4 summerfag
5'10" aka prince of manlets
I used to lift (doing SL and bulking well) and took a 3 year break. Went up from 145 to 170 w/ a noticeable belly.
I loathe how I look, even if it's skinny fat and not obese (yet).
Began a cut w/ EC stack about a week ago. I know and understand that there are no noticeable gains within a week.
But, if I want to do this long term, for someone that want to do this long term, do I cut 1st until I'm satisfied w/ my auschwitz mode body, or lean bulk or...
Forgive me, /fit/, for I want to lift for aesthetics.
>lifting for aesthetics, not strength
>>37402875
talking out of your ass 101
>>37411670
what do you do for calves brah? also, do you train your core/abs it seems a little off from the rest of the "set", not slacking you but i would think 2 years of progress with your based mind set and discipline would be more noticeable, did you relegated them for some time?
What cutting concept did you go for OP?
>>37400874
How did you reliably calculate your TDEE and your Body Fat %? I'm a little shorter than you (5'9"), and I'm around 130 now. I want to know what to look for before I begin lean bulking. I obviously DYEL but rn I just want to keep cutting until I hit auschwitz mode. Is that good?
I also play soccer pretty consistently (3-4 times per week). How do you think that would affect the program? It's usually 9-11 miles of sprinting/jogging over 3 or 4 hours each session.
What do you left on a cut? Since hypertrophy isn't possible on a deficit it doesn't make sense to keep doing high rep, right?
BalconyBro,
You have an email address for emailing some tips ?
>>37414792
Honestly for Calves, kust Squats for 95% of the time. Squatting alone was my entire lower body workout up until Feb, when I switched to a real Upper/Lower routine (Jdavis Fierce 5 Upper Lower. Lower day = Squat->Press->RDL->Weighted back exten->Calf raise).
I agree about my abs. I eat an ENORMOUS amount of salt to keep the food flavored, so I convinced myself that its bloat, etc. But My abs have never wanted to get shredded, despite veins everywhere. Also, it really depends on lighting. I can never get a good shot anymore, I'm always under soft yellow lighting, etc, which really hurts them. I do work them as per routine, and they're *ALWAYS* Sore from heavy chinups/squats/OHP, etc. They never want to pop out, and its caused an enormous amount of insecurity for me =/.
>>37400874
Are you really 5'9 @ 155lbs in the right pic? I'm 5'8 @ 167lbs currently cutting and my goal is 155lbs or 150lbs. I will probably look even more dyel than I look right now.
>>37417291
First time cutting after a bulk btw.
>>37411670
could you post your old routine that you used for jan 2016 pls
i am doing a 4 day splitt
chest, bis
back, tris
shoulders
legs
what would you recomend?
>>37408781
Joints have problems handling the mass but bones can actually "thicken" if you put on more mass than it is used to (within reason obviously)
>>37417291
work on your shoulders and you'll make a joocy otter
>>37417406
Now that you mentioned it I realize my shoulders, especially my rear delts, are weak af. Ty anon.
>>37416283
Very curious with this!!!!
Morning fitfam, another beautiful day in the neighborhood.
>>37413822
If you're in it for the long term but self concious about the weight you've put on the last 3 years I'd cut at -500cals/day + cardio 3 or 4 times a week for one month just to trim some fat. You wont get abs, but you should be able to drop an easy 10'ish lbs. Then go to lean bulking at +300 calories per day. Regardless of wether you bulk or cut you should start on your lifting routine from day 1, dont wait until after the cut.
Calculating your TDEE can be done via several online tdee calculators, check Scooby's workshop for a pretty good one based on age, height, weight, and activity level. Keep in mind NO online tdee calculator is 100% accurate. You will have to start with their ballpark calculation and calibrate it week over week based on if you're losing weight yet. If not losing weight, add/subtract 200 calories from how much your eating per day for a full week. Repeat the process until you're reliably losing/gaining weight. If you're doing soccer 3-4 times a week make sure you select moderate to highly active in the activity level selection, it will adjust your caloric targets accounting for that.
>>37416283
You should still be doing 4 sets in the 8-12rep range per muscle group, even during a cut. You may have to drop the weight, which is 100% to be expected. Just remember that the # on the weight is irrelevant. It's about completing 4 full sets in that 8-12rep range with the most weight you can.
>>37416545
No email but IG is @balcony_bro
>>37417291
Yes, I'm 5'9 and 155lb's in all current pics.
>>37417370
Jan 2016 routine was same as current routine, posted here >>37401587.
All lifts are 4 sets each, 8-12 reps per set.
IIFYM isn't broscience or a might-might-not work thing. Here's what I had for breakfast this morning - 12 peanut butter and banana cookies! 700 calories, 64g protein. Knowing how to cook with the right ingredients gives you a huge advantage and makes this lifestyle waaaay happier and easier to sustain than eating oats/chicken breast/rice every day 3x a day. Seriously huge volume, delicious, and half a days protein all before 7am.
Recipe
1/4 cup coconut flour
1/4 all purpose flour
1/4 cup peanut flour
1 scoop peanut butter protein powder
14g melted light butter
46g cartoned egg whites
2 tsp butter extract
1 tsp vanilla extract
1/4 stevia in the raw
1 tsp baking powder
1 banana chopped and mixed into batter
115g plain fat free greek yogurt
Mix all in bowl to form dough, transfer to a floured surface to break out 12 cookie-sized balls. Place all on a PAM'd baking sheet. Bake on 400F for 10-12 minutes. Eat 12 fucking cookies for breakfast while everyone else eats a big bowl of oatmeal that they pretend to enjoy.
>>37417370
Not sure if you were talking to me or BalconyBro :), but you were tagging my post. His is listed below, and its very effective. My Routine when in Jan 2016 was a PPL, 6x per week. I always had more success when I was pushing more strength gains, higher reps didn't do much for me.
What really helped me a lot was my "warmup", which was to ramp up to working sets slowly for volume. If my working 5x5 weight was 250lbs, I'd go 5 reps of: 135/155/175/195/205/215/225, and then go to 250 for 5x5. This would really let me get some volume in for the most effective exercises. I had more success ramping pre-"main" sets, than after, but experiment for you.
Push A
Bench 5x5
OHP 5x5
Push B)
Bench 3x5 (+5 lbs)
OHP 5x5 same weight (+5lbs per month)
Pull A+B)
Weighted (90+lbs) Chinups 5x5 of Chinup grip
Weighted (50lbs) Chinups 5x8 of neutral grip
Unweighted of 5x12 of wide Pull up grip
Rows 5x5
Increase 5lbs per week
Legs A+B)
Squats 3x5 (A day)
Squats 5x5 (B Day)
Slow ramping like before on push day.
I would consistently make gains, but the intensity would always ding me up, since I was only on a 200 cal surplus. I think I average 3 muscles pulls every 2 months =/.
If you're doing a 4 day split, as a natty, you need to make sure you hit each body part twice a week, IMO. Try a Leg/Push/Pull/X/X/Full Body/X if you can handle the intensity. But make sure to get your nutrition in check. By far the most important part of training for any Natty.
I'm about 10 lbs heavier than you in your first picture, with about the same body composition. I was going to start SS for the next 6 months, but now probably gonna do a PPL.
Whats the biggest mistakes I can avoid following a similar program as you? Also, thanks.
>>37418274
Biggest mistake to avoid when adopting a new program/routine is thinking that you will obtain the same results someone else did with that same routine. Any routine you see, especially on /fit/, is the result of that person tweaking and substituting different movements over the years based on their preferences, injuries, gym equipment, etc.
For example the routine of mine I posted in this thread is the one I use 80% of the time when I'm working out in my homegym without any machines. But I do train at a commercial gym sometimes, in which case I enjoy using several different machines. The gains will come just as well either way so long as you're getting the appropriate volume and stress on each muscle - it doesn't matter which particular movements you end up choosing.
Other than that, imo dietary discipline was the much harder thing to master than adopting a workout routine. Having your diet in check is more important than lifting. You can lift all day long but without adequate protein and calories you wont gain muscle. And conversely, if you consistently overeat you'll end up covering all your gains with a layer of fat, undermining the purpose of all the lifting (assuming you're doing it for physique not strength).
>>37418524
what do you have for a home gym?
>>37418215
Yes i was talking to you
Thanks
If you do OHP every week is your muscle not going to adjust to that?
Everyone tells me that i should change different exercises
>>37418524
I'm working on the diet as we speak, meal prep is hard, and i'm just now learning to cook for myself.
Since you say no more than 300 surplus calories what do you think the ideal macro ratio is for a lean bulk? I've been trying to get a 40/40/20 high fat/protein low carb, but I find it really hard to meet goals for fat.
>>37418625
My homegym setup including what everything.
Marcy cage + cable system $350 new sports authority
Marcy adjustable bench $150 new sports authority
Oly bar and plates $150 used craigslist
Dumbbells $250 combo of new and used craigslist
Cable attachments $50 new amazon
About $1000 for the entire gym
>>37418695
seems comfy af to work out in such a confined space, thanks man
>>37400687
was intentionally to have no shoulders, chest and arms? nice abs tho
>>37418678
I found that exact macro ratios (40/40/20 etc) are largely unnecessary unless you have special (non lifting) dietary demands, such as being diabetic etc.
For ongoing dieting to build muscle or lose fat all you need to focus on is hitting your calorie goal (be it cutting, maintenance, or bulking), and your daily protein goal. Carbs and fats can fluctuate entirely based on your tastes/cravings, so long as they dont cause you to go over your calories.
The only time you *might* want to shift carbs or fats are special scenarios such as needing that extra crisp definition when already below 10% BF for going to the beach, photo shoots, whatever other vanity occassions. Even then it's going to make only a subtle difference.
>>37406789
this is why i hate /fit/ sometimes
>>37418215
So lets say on mondays you only do bench and ohp?
2 things? Nothing more?
>>37418641
Once you plateau, yeah, you can switch it up. I've honestly never really hit a consistent plateau to force me to switch.
Every time I would stall, I would look back at my routine and diet. 99% of the time, It was because I hadn't gone 100% that week (missed meals/sleep from exams/work, etc etc), so I would rededicate myself, and the next week I would come back at it and nail it.
If I would still miss the next week (happens rarely, but does), I would deload weight 5% and restart. Maybe in the future I'll stop making progress, but for now, I have been pretty consistent. It may have slowed down (Im only adding about 5lbs per 3 weeks for bench, every 6 weeks for OHP), but it's still there.
For me, I've found if I lift increasingly heavy compounds with volume, eat properly and get my sleep, I'll grow. The exact programming for my routine itself is not really as important, routine for me is mostly about what gives me enough volume to grow, but without too much to where i'm starting to get injured. I'll run myself into the ground if my Routine has me do it, so I have to structure it where I have enough planned rest.
I should really make a tripcode. Ill come up with one later tonight.
>>37418890
Yeah. But those are ramping sets, so its a lot of volume.
My Mondays would be:
Walk into bench
5 reps of: 95/135/155/185/195/205/225/245
Then do 5x5 of 255
And OHP would be 5 reps of
85/105/135/145/155
Then 5x5 of 165.
Then go home. I never worked my Arms directly. Chinups and the OHP/Bench were more than good enough for me, Working my arms directly just made my elbows sore and never gave me any noticable growth more than when I dropped them completely.
Probably could have done more, but I was able to get in, Nail those lifts, which were exhausting by the end, then go home. Kept me focused, which really helped.
Hey balconybro, would you help me out with my routine? I think in particular I am missing back exercises and lower body exercises
PPL
Push:
Bench press 5x5
Skullcrushers 5x5
Seated dumbbell press 5x5
Incline bench press 5x5
Pull:
Hammercurls 5x5
Extra left arm hammercurls 5x5 (weaker left)
Lat pulldown 4x8
Dumbbell shrugs 4x10
Cheat lateral raises 5x5
Legs:
Sumo deadlift 3x5
Crush grip goblet squat 3x5
What do you think of my routine BalconySenpai?
Push/Pull/Rest/Push/Pull/Rest/Rest
Push:
Horizontal Leg Press 3x8
Dumbbell Bench 3x8-12
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3x8-12
Dumbbell Incline Bench 3x8-12
Dumbbell Lateral Raises 3x8-12
Triceps Rope Pulldown 3x8-12
Triceps Behind the Back Dumbbell Presses 3x8-12
+ab work:
Ab wheel kneeling rollouts 3x8
Side Oblique Crunches 3x8
Pull:
Lat Pulldowns 3x8-12
Seated Rows 3x8-12
Facepulls 3x8-12
Ez bar Preacher Curls 3x8-12
Hammer Curls 3x8-12
Dumbbell Shrugs 3x8-12
Glute Bridges 3x8
+ab work:
Leg Raises on a dip station 3x8
Decline Sit Ups 3x8
>>37419027
+ a little cardio on push days after the workout (like 10 minutes on a treadmill)
>>37418952
>>37418215
Just saying thanks for contributing with further routine and perspectives. Anyone who can illustrate that they've made gains and is here to share what worked for them without implying they're better than anyone else is A+ and much needed. Of course you'll have the anon pessimists who assume the worst about you, but they're just those family members at the Thanksgiving table who try to talk politics and religion just for the sake of needing attention. Can't get rid of em, just gotta let them play in their own shitty diaper at the kids table.
Soon as you have that trip going you'll invite plenty of negativity and inevitably rustle even more jimmies but Taylor Swift em' and keep helping others.
Why do you say core is not important to work?
I thought "Squats and DL's do enough for your abs" was just a meme?
And you don't even do those, how do you have such good abs without any ab work?
Is ab work actually the meme? Have we been double memed?
>>37419004
Definitely lacking back movements. Lat Pulldowns are spot on, but be open to doing multiple variations of them - they aren't just one exercise. A wide grip pulldown hits differently than a pulldown with a V-Bar, for example.
Pullups are equally as important and versatile. Based on width grip, hand supination (under or overhand), and adding weight, they remain a staple from beginning routines through to olympic BB'ers. If you can't do them yet, lookup partials (negatives), you can do those until you get knock out the full range of motion.
Both of those are pulling motions emphasising the lats width, you NEED some rowing motions to develop back thickness as well. Width and thickness should be developed 50/50. There's a zillion types of rows (barbell, dumbell, machine, cable), choose two of them.
2 pull up/down motions + 2 rowing motions = perfectly balanced back day.
>>37419145
Pullups, chinups, dips are exercises I plan to incorporate once I have lost a bunch of weight cause I'm way fat right now
I'll definitely look into some rows though
Any other recommendations?
>>37419104
The way your abs look is literally 95% diet. There is no crunch, situp, ab machine, compound exercise, any lift that will "reveal" or sharpen your abs. Low bodyfat and that alone determines how your stomach looks.
"Squats and DL's do enough for your abs" is a true statement in terms of developing ab/core STRENGTH, not ab looks. As mentioned in this thread, I don't squat or DL, nor any ab work at all. It simply isn't necessary if you don't require core strength to drive those compound lifts upward.
>>37402590
Chill out , Inigo Montoya
Did a manlet kill your father?
>>37419027
Your Push portion is severely lacking leg work, the only thing I see is Horizontal Leg Press and glute bridges. Leg Press Machine is a pretty good replacement for squats (not 100% but ok), but you still need another couple exercises. Ideally one targetting quads and one targeting hams. All commercial gyms have leg extension machines, most have some type of leg curl machine. Those two would be the perfect combo.
Your back work is only Lat Pulldowns and Seated Rows. Add one more pulldown/pullup motion and one more rowing motion.
I'm not saying DONT do ab work, but seeing as you don't squat or deadlift, that time you're using on ab exercises to build core strength could probably be used to hit another muscle group that will actually develop your appearance, or do more cardio.
>>37419317
I missed an important thing - chest work. Severely underworked with that routine, only through DB bench and only 3 sets. That's nowhere near enough volume to grow chest.
At least two, preferably 3 more chest-focused lifts needed. Always good to include at least one fly motion (dumbells or cables). The subtleties of upper/lower chest are less important in the beginning, but long term it will make a difference wether or not your movements are incline versus decline, low position cables versus mid or high, etc. For now just add 2-3 more chest exercises that you feel comfortable and safe doing.
1 year and you only gained 10 lbs?
even natty you shouldve gained double that in the first year
>>37419376
>measuring 1st year progress by scale weight
ISHYGDDT
Comments such as this are uneducated because they don't take into account body recomposition (dropping fat pounds while adding lean muscle mass pounds). For many people they will actually weigh less (even drastically so) at the end of year 1, as they should. In my case I had a good 15-20 pounds of raw bodyfat to shed in order to be <10% BF. Even if I added 20 pounds of muscle like this genius says I should have...where would that leave my SCALE weight? -20 fat...+20 muscle = 0 pounds difference on the scale.
>>37419221
> It simply isn't necessary if you don't require core strength
But you do. You don't not require core strength. That's not how it works. Not working your abs will give you shitty weak abs
>Low bodyfat and that alone determines how your stomach looks.
Your peddling a meme
>>37419317
>>37419368
thanks man, that's good to know, the problem with adding more exercises is though that I really like to do rest a lot between every set (3-up to 5 minutes). This means that even though I don't do a lot of exercises, I spend like 2 hours in the gym every time.
Should I be stricter on rest periods between sets and bring a timer with me and time everything? How long of a rest do you recommend? I know it's better to have more different exercises but I always feel still exhausted after only 1 or 2 minutes rest, so I always rest like 4 minutes.
>>37419515
1-2 minutes between each set of isolation work, which is actually pretty high. A lot of people do 30-45 seconds. The trick is doing alternating muscle groups..don't sit there and do all 4 sets of an exercise back to back. This is the advantage of doing an ABCABC split, every day you are working 2 different unassociated bodyparts.
So immediately after hitting triceps with rope pull downs, I'll walk to the leg extension machine and do a set of those to hit my quads. While I was hitting my quads my triceps were doing nothing, recovering. By the time those 8-12 reps of leg extensions are done, my triceps are ready for their next set of rope pulldowns. Repeat this scheme for your entire workout. Just to give you an estimate, it takes me 1 hour 15 mins to hit all 4 exercises, 8-12 reps each, for two different muscle groups. Lifting weights for 2+ hours has been proven to be counterproductive toward the end. Your central nervous system tapers off and you get diminishing returns.
>face frame height threads
>traps giving routines to people
>guy that is literally above bodyweight exercises dyels giving advice
Jesus christ dunno if summer but fit really is shit outside of the fraud plg owg and the occasional strongman general.
>>37419502
You're in the wrong thread. Re-read the opening. This is about building a lean defined physique, not about building strength. Having "shitty weak abs" makes zero VISUAL difference than someone who hits abs 7x a week. This is why my abs look the way they do. You have the meme backward.
>>37400687
So when are you gonna learn your lesson and start doing squats?
How do I properly bulk?
I'm not sure on how to count calories what a tdee is and how told keep track on calories from food.
>>37419651
damn, that's pretty smart, but aren't those just supersets?
Is doing supersets for everything actually a good idea? I thought they were something special for the end of the workout when you want a big pump.
>>37419704
>anons coming into threads clearly labeled as topics they dont like, just to leave a comment saying they dont like them.
feels like average /fit/ year round if you ask me.
>>37419807
It is indeed a type of superset, although different than the burnout ones you're talking about. That kind of superset is doing one exercise in normal fashion, then immediately doing another exercise for that SAME muscle, using a lower than normal weight since it's already fatigued, going until failure. That is indeed wise to do when wrapping up your routine, but isn't advisable for just starting out.
>>37419851
But if you're on Push Day for example, how can you even do a superset without engaging the same muscle group. I mean pretty much all exercises there use chest, tris and delts to some extent.
>>37415668
pls respond balcony bro you're my only hope
>>37419908
You basically just summarized why I prefer ABCABC versus PPLPPL.
>>37419984
Oh wait you responded, you just didn't tag me. U a real one mr. balconybro
>>37419984
I responded in this post >>37417752 think I just messed up the the post tag. I mention the soccer in that paragraph though.
>>37419986
Would you recommend me switching to an ABCABC too?
>>37420001
Np homie, godspeed with the gains!
>>37420077
It's largely dependent on your schedule. PPL or ABABC will result in the same gains, but imo ABCABC is easier to condense into 1-1.5 hour sessions than PPL is. So, unless you simply dont mind the extra time spent at the gym, I'd definitely recommend at least giving it a shot for two or three weeks. Any new routine will feel foreign at first, so it's important to give it several iterations to see if it feels right for you long term.
5'6 63kg manlet,I started cutting 3 weeks ago from 65kg(went on a clean bulk from 57 to 65kg).
Problem is I look dyel as fuck and still high-ish bf,I can see a bit of abs under good lightning but I have still quite a lot of fat.
Should I just stop cutting and say goodbye to low bf summer or continue and get lean so I can clean bulk again?
Stats are 80/150/142,5
>>37420381
Wrong order,stats are 150/80/142,5
Christ are there any actual big dudes on /fit/? I'm 6'2" and 200lbs @about 15% trying to get to 230 by the end of the year with minimal fat gain. Who's lifting to be a huge motherfucker rather than (I assume) for girls or a beach body? Who would ever try and maintain 160lbs???
>>37420406
>Who would ever try and maintain 160lbs???
Manlets.
>>37419710
So to a beginner lifter aiming for aesthetics would you recommend going straight to hyper trophy without beginning with a strength program?
>>37419075
Think I got my Trip. Lets see how long this lasts. You're a real bro :).
>>37419515
It really depends on you. Balconybro takes a very effective side of the spectrum, Im the other. I take 3-5 minutes between my sets, but all my work sets are near my max. When I ran PPL, It was only 2-3 exercises, but super heavy with a lower rep scheme. Both of us agree on probably the most important part: To always be trying to increase the total amount of weight moved, either more reps, or more weight. Progress is what matters, not necessarily in what form.
>>37418678
Diet is the hardest part. I have to eat insanely high amounts of protein (400g) just to feel full each day. I just try to hit my calories (3200), each day, usually with 350-450g protein per day. The carbs and fats normally work itself out, and as long as im over 15% fat, I don't worry too much.
Chicken breast, russet potatoes, eggs+egg whites. Enjoy =/.
>>37419502
I used to never train abs directly, then I hit them every workout, then I hit them on Routine. Nothing makes a difference. Compare this to when I decide to cut salt out for a few days, and suddenly I'm shredded...yeah. Ab work is overrated for Aesthetics.
>>37419771
I bulked like I was cutting, but I used 12 whole eggs instead of 4 eggs+8egg whites for my morning meal, Boneless/Skinless Chicken thighs instead of Chicken breast, and 75% ground beef instead of 96%. Also added a Guinness at night. Don't overthink it, just eat slightly more, with higher caloric foods.
>>37419476
bro you just took a year to drop bodyfat get over yourself. also LMAO at you bulking for a month and getting scared because "i lost muh abs"
>>37420406
They hide in the shadows. Because they know the truth behind why it is stupid to post pictures of yourself here...
<spoiler>they are saved and used for grindr by bots</spoiler>
>>37420946
>being immortalized on a homosex app
winning
>>37420916
I guess you see no difference in the second pic of he collage (dropped all BF with no muscle) versus the last one. Sorry about your eyesight.
>>37420519
straight to hypertrophy imo
>>37420419>>37420406
Someone who maxes out their FFMI limit at 170, perhaps?
>>37420381
Too late for this summer imo, go ahead and get to lean bulking.
>>37420614
Whaddaya know, someone who actually has aesthetic abs pointing out that, again, isolating ab work isn't correlated with how well they appear in the mirror - it's diet, that's it. Glad you got the trip, should help keep up wit yas.
>>37400687
I like fit except for all the gay shit. I mean I have sucked dicks, given rim jobs and taken it up the ads and this stuff is still to gay for me.
>>37421442
Don't be such a prude, anon. It can get gayer in here, trust me. Gonna start instgram-filtering my pics. Plus we can invite some of my cbt boys. **current body thread, not cock ball torture...unless you're into that?
ayy BalconyBreh
is it ok to cut when I'm only on 8 reps on most of my exercises (I do a 3x8-12 rep scheme). Or should I try to increase them to 12 reps before starting the cut, so I have a little to fall back to, if you know what I mean.
Do you have a journal of sorts that shows progression in weight moved be it reps or weight?
Or even a contrast of what you started with vs where you're at now? I'm not looking to laugh at lightweight, just keep in perspective what one might expect to ballpark in a year's time.
>>37423629
The # of reps and weight you're using that pairs with that many reps is unrelated to if you should cut or not. Having to go down to the next lower weight doesn't matter - It's time to cut when you feel like you've enough muscle that there's something worth revealing underneath. Keep in mind for most people that "enough" is usually at least 6+ months of bulking first, especially if it'll be your first real cut.
>>37400687
Any advice you'd give to an overweight guy with gyno (hopefully just stubborn chest fat). Should I bulk or cut first? If cut, what is some of your best cutting tips. Thanks bro
