Evidence Supporting A Vegan Diet: http://pastebin.com/X2mNSRnf
(It's a long fucking list and it's not even anywhere near complete.)
Pic unrelated.
So why aren't you vegan?
>List of animal treatment on farms and studies researching vegan lifestyles stating the vegan is arguebly better then junk food 24/7
>evidence
>>36969980
Are you for real? Are you really this deluded or are you mocking how meat eaters typically respond without fucking reading any of the information?
>>36970005
Can you stop flaunting your virginity?
Why aren't you dead, vegan scum?
Holy shit, this board made me hate vegans so much.
Before /fit/ I didn't care, now I legitimately want to see a holocaust against vegans. I want all you retards rounded up and gassed.
>>36970078
That's exactly the same way I feel about meat eaters, except like I actually have a reason for it and you're just a drooling, angry lunatic.
>>36970078
this
Idgaf if someone is vegan, vegetarion, homosexual or pansexual inbred squirrelkin, as long as they don't stick it in my face
Vegans are by far the most stuck up bastards everywhere, convinced they're the absolute shit, and feel the need to tell everyone that and tell them how bad they are for eating what they want
Well, guess what, you are shit.
>>36970124
Awww, poor wittle baby.
Do you not realize how ridiculously hypocritical you're being? I'm cracking up but it's so sad at the same time.
>>36970138
mate you're the one that made this thread to prove how good you are and how shit we are
do you see threads named MEAT EATERZ RULE!!!!! or is it just you guys trying to prove you still actually have a dick?
2/10 b8 made me reply
>>36970138
If you're in the majority you become immune to logic and can be as big as an asshole as possible.
Living in real world and seeing that 99% of people eat meat and live with no problems should be a good enough evidence that veganism is a meme.
Vegans are the new furries. So fkin cringeworthy
>>36970146
LMFAO THIS THREAD IS LITERALLY JUST TITLED "EVIDENCE SUPPORTING A VEGAN DIET" and you're all fucking crying like I just raped you.
If you could die from laughter I think vegans would have a higher mortality rate. Thank god it's the opposite.
>>36970167
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371172/French-vegan-couple-face-jail-child-neglect-baby-died-vitamin-deficiency.html
All the evidence I need.
>>36970155
Except they don't live with no problems you unimaginable retard.
>>36969936
because I enjoy eating meat, now fuck off
>>36970174
I used to work with a vegan family and their son was a literal genius and as healthy as can be along with their infant daughter.
Vegan diets are approved for all stages of life by the ADA and there are countless healthy vegan children. Seba Johnson and Nyjah Huston were raised vegan since birth, and they're professional athletes. Joaquin Phoenix has been vegan since age 3....
>>36970178
you're right. their problem is living among vegans.
retards don't know and won't accept that they're retarded and that's the problem with people like you
>>36970174
You're an actual retard. Did you even read the article? The child became deficient because they gave her a diet SOLELY comprised of the mother's milk. This has more to do with fucking retards with no idea about nutrition raising children than it does Veganism. This is what tilts me the most about cunts like you. You're so intellectually inept that 1. You present anecdotal evidence that is obviously the result of a quick google search & 2. You didn't even read the article you fucking autistic swamp donkey.
>>36970198
Yeah, just notice that you guys need supplements (B12 let's say the least) to maintain health.
Meat eaters don't need supplements.
For me that says enough.
>>36970212
nigga babies are supposed to be only breast fed till at least 12 months
this baby was 11 months old
you're braindead, all those plants got to your brain lel
>>36970221
Babies are supposed to have solid foods introduced within 6 months
>>36970214
Most meat eaters are B12 deficient you fucking genius.
>>36969936
Go away, sheep.
>>36970214
You would too if farmers didn't feed animals b12 supplements. B12 was originally found in the soil, but due to the nature of modern agriculture isn't. So, in fact, you too need supplements but the animals you eat are fed these supplements. Let that sink in.
>>36970242
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=107
Oh look, all the foods you scum can't eat :D
>>36970239
They should also get all they need in their diet from breastmilk
If the parents had a NORMAL diet, the baby would get all the b12 it needed without need for supplements
But hey, you people are so stuck up you try feeding your fucking dogs and cats a vegan diet bc, why the fuck wouldn't you try to fuck up a baby as well
>>36970268
Dogs are carnivorous, so feeding them vegan diets is retarded. Humans are herbivores. But please, continue to generalise in the same way Vegans generalising that everyone who eats meat makes you butt blasted.
Because the studies are vague. The average vegan is much more health conscience than the average meat eater. Also, if your fats are less than 30% of your diet, what's wrong with that? Same if your dietary chol and sat fat are under the daily allowance, then what? Too many variables, nothing set in stone. Vegans aren't medical doctors or nutrition gurus to say the final word. I'll still adhere to the ADA guidelines.
>>36969936
> needing a list of reasons a mile long to explain why eating unhealthy food is good for you
Nahhh
>>36970287
You lost me at "health conscience". Sorry.
And how the fuck are they vague, lmao. You literally didn't read any of them. You didn't even bother to skim through any of them. Fuck people like you god damn it you're a fucking plague.
Evidence supporting an omnivore diet
> Meat tastes good and it's good for you
Citation
> humanity
>>36969936
I a black hole is just a collapsed star (of a very particular sort anyway), why is its gravitational pull so much greater? How did its mass increase that much?
>>36970285
Mate that image is so fucking wrong just to prove your point lel.
Stomach acid in humans 1.5-3.5 ph
Biggest masticatory muscle temporalis
Not an expert in teeth
Small intestine is about 7m, which means it's about 4x body length
Check your shitty images if you wanna preach how humans are herbivores kek
>>36970078
>>36970124
>>36970146
Will you retards please stop taking the bait? Why do you think these people are still here?
>>36970330
It has nothing to do with mass, it has to do with density. You'd get a tiny black hole if the Earth were compressed to the size of a coin.
>>36970330
It takes a very, very big star to create a black hole.
>>36970330
>How did its mass increase that much?
It didn't.
>why is its gravitational pull so much greater?
This is also wrong. If our sun were replaced with a black hole with the same mass, we would experience the same gravitational pull. It's just that all the mass is now in a small place, so gravity is only "stronger" when you're closer to it, i.e., closer than the original sun's theoretical radius.
>>36969936
Holy fuck I've been away for three months and we are still on this?
>>36970330
the thing is it's shrunk to nearly singular point of extreme density. As you know, gravity decreases with square of distance from object. So when the whole star is still alive, at no point does the sum of its gravitational pull from all its atoms add up to any extreme. But when it forms a black hole, you have all the mass at pretty much one point, and when you get close to that one point, all the gravitational pull adds up to much greater number.
>>36970355
Yes, but that VERY VERY big star didn't have the gravity to prevent light from escaping, right?
>>36970386
I'd much rather reply to these kinds of shitposts than vegans desu
>>36970384
>As you know, gravity decreases with square of distance from object.
What if I measure distance in parsecs? Will gravity decrease more slowly as I move away from an object?
Checkmate, atheists.
>>36970395
It's not a shitpost, I'm just not smart.
>>36970330
Equal distribution. Why does a chunk of metal weighting 100t the size of the titanic float while a chunk of metal 100t the size of my car sink
>>36970416
If you are one metre from the surface of our sun, it is so big that the mass is all spread out, so you are 300,000km from half of the mass, this weakens the gravity
If you are one metre from a black hole you are one metre from all of the black holes mass, so gravity is strong
>>36970421
>what is buoyancy
>>36970124
>I'm very tolerant. It's cool if you do that thing, as long as it's never shown in public and I never have to be exposed to it at any point in my life. Other than that it's totally cool with me
>>36970386
>>36970416
That VERY VERY big star has a lot of shit going on inside it that could disrupt light flow, but as far as gravity is concerned, no, nowhere near enough gravity to lock the light in, because the star's mass was spread out far enough so it wouldn't be dense enough to form a singularity. The thing that kept it from becoming too dense is the fusion reaction going on inside it. When fusion can no longer occur, then nothing is left to fight back against gravity from compressing the fuck out of it into a potential black hole.
Anything can become a black hole, just compress all its mass into a small enough space. Like the Earth into a coin.
>>36970268
That meat has B12 doesn't necessarily mean it's absorbed well
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2000/000802.htm
>>36970330
I don't think anyone has really got to the crux of what you're asking. A black hole beyond the event horizon (point of no return) it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate away. That's how come light can't escape. This event horizon is thought to define the boundary of the black hole, and anything beyond it we can't really talk about (eg is the singularity a point or spread out or whatever, that information may be lost).
Why can things like black holes form? Because gravity is a force that has no apparent opposite. There is only positive gravity apparent. And it acts over large distances. By amount of matter needed to exert the force it's actually very weak, much weaker than electromagnetism say. But because it attracts all matter and there isn't like a reverse mechanism we get it build up and up and form things like planets and stars and sometimes black holes.
>>36970436
but wouldn't the density of the star/black hole you're close to not matter? Because Newton's law of gravitation?
F = G(m1m2/r^2)\
- t. not a physics student
>>36970445
That's the point. Gravitational buoyancy
>>36970484
R is distance in that formula
>>36970412
Still more pleasant shitpost than the vegan BS this thread is about
>>36970484
I'm about to blow all y'all minds. That equation for gravity, ALREADY assumes everything is a black hole. For example, when you use that equation to calculate what g is on Earth, you're assuming all the Earth's mass is in a single point in the center of the earth, and you are just one Earth radius away from it.
>>36970484
Newton's laws work with point masses. So density doesn't matter, only centre of gravity and mass.
>>36970464
>I'm very good at attacking my opponent's arguments, as long said arguments are a straw-filled analog with weaknesses I have constructed. Other than that I will also format it in a drawn-out greentext.
I'm digging the science talk, nice change from the shit usually seen on this Congolese token exchange forum.
>>36969936
>evidence
>Okay, let's give this a chance.
>Even though OP is being a faggot in the thread...
>more than half the links YT videos, blogs, non-scientific-journals, activist websites
>scroll scroll
>90% of studies listed either about vegetarianism or simple reduction of animal products or health benefits of increasing plant-based foods for average individual
>literally common sense
>plant-based, plant-based, plant-based,...
>Nigga didn't check data collection criteria for any of this...
>Filtering this shit...
>Left with about 10ish studies
>Compares to high-carb-diets...
>compares to high-carb-diets...
>compares to average American...
>compares to average Afro-American (known for horrible diets)
>Compares self-reports to average Americans...
>Also fish-eaters comparable all around...
>Oh, a review article.
>"when supplemented with..."
>"when supplemented with..."
>"supplemented with..."
>self-report pilot study...
>One study left
>Raw food diet compared to average American
Dear lord. I'm not opposed to vegan diets, but the clinical research is still retarded as fuck. Not a single study comparing a healthy diet with animal products and a healthy diet without animal products.
Vegan diet is better than a shitty one. No fucking shit.
OP, learn how to critically read studies.
If you want a good reason to go vegan, forget about ethical and health arguments and stick to the only one that actually has any hard evidence: Ecological and economical.
Because as long as people have a solid base diet (rich in veggies, fruits, grain, nuts and seeds) everything else is negligable at best.
>>36969936
I'm not vegan because you post vegan bait general multiple times every day you fucking faggot
>>36970794
this.
also we evolved to not be herbivores, fuck off OP.
>>36971156
Believe it or not, for the vast majority of our evolutionary history we've been herbivores
Vegans are cunts tho
ITT: vegan calls everybody names and is a big mean bully
>>36971304
Except basically every predator since the Cambrian period?
Human ancestors as recent as Australopithecus afarensis were herbivores, big cats have been carnivores since ~6 million years
>>36971349
Nah, since the first life forms were technically plants, even the first "predators" were herbivores.
So the Cambrian period is waaay later.
(Deleted comment because obviously not ALL life forms.)
Oh, I guess also technically carnivorous plants would also be the exception. But no idea when those first popped up.
>>36971375
Your continued and determined misunderstanding of evolutionary history is baffling. You should read a book between sets
My great uncle got his thumb bitten off by a pig
Fuck animals
vegans are fucking stupid
>look at me im a vegan i save the environment and the poor animals
Every other fucking day a new study proves animals or vegetables procudes the most co2, but fucking vegans think vegetables have no production, its like vegetables appear out of nothing on their plates
vegetables or meat, the reason the environment is suffering is because of the amount of shit people populating it i.e. niggers and asians
so you save a poor pig or cow, who the fuck cares. Have you ever seen a pig or a cow in real life? they are disgusting shitting all over the place and they are not intelligent animals they dont have feelings only instincts. They dont feel sad because they are about to die, even they are even put down in the most humane way there is. People in the middle east treat eachother way worse than western treat animals
vegans thinks that if they stop eating meat, exotic animals like rhinos will be saved or some shit, i dont know. The animals you eat only exists to be eaten you fucking mongoloids
if you want to save the animals you should instead focus on wild animals in captivity
Vegans want to be vegans because they have never been loved, so they try to find something in life so they can tell themselves that they are good people.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop promoting your fucking cancerous bullshit
being vegan is PLACEBO
>>36971391
Or this is the same retarded semantics discussion taxonomists have been having for centuries.
Consumption of photosynthetic life forms constitutes herbivore in my book. Not in yours. Grats.
Because I don't give a fuck whether or not animals have feelings
Because it's the easiest way for me to get protein and fat into my diet on the necessary scale
Because I'm only in my mid-20's and healthy enough to not give a shit
>>36971439
I'm not on OPs side, but you are an idiot.
Nobody with a brain is debating that animal products have a much bigger impact on the environment than proper cultivation.
You realize animals have to be fed, right?
Just reduce your meat intake and try to buy locally. It really isn't that difficult.
>>36971515
youre fucking retarded, thats what everyone is debating right now
enjoy your 2kg shit taste meals faggot
>>36971515
Not that guy but he clearly said vegetables. Grains are pretty efficient (and that's why we feed them to cows) but vegetables take lots of water and have a short shelf life (of course some are worst them others), buying a cucumber is similar to buying bottled water in some places.
>>36971695
Some foodstuffs are just easier to intensively farm at any given time. I think for almost any measure potatoes beat any grain, the for efficient grain it's corn or go home. If you take out carbs or calories (as you can't live off macros alone) apples and grapes and peas are up there too, Australian apple orchards are able to match or beat potato yield on a tonne/acre basis. You don't farm wheat in your back garden generally because yield is poor and is only efficient to farm witb lots of it grown over a massive area.
A lot of the veg that's hard to grow on a large scale like that is usually more expensive and is usually very efficient if grown in your back yard. In fact you can beat corn production efficiency using the three sisters method of companion planting.
>>36970483
>Gravity is a force
It isn't.
t. physics grad
>>36970138
>resorting to baby talk
Why do they always do this? There's literally no other defense they use.
Shouldn't you be getting triggered at UMass or something?
>>36972238
It fucking is though
Just because it can be explained as a natural consequence of the curvature of spacetime doesn't make it any less of a force, especially in the way we experience it.
Do you think you're smarter than everyone because you spew counterintuitive bullshit that's supposed to get everybody to drop their jaws in awe? Did you graduate from the University of Popular Science and Culture?
>>36970110
your low test is showing. calm your tits.
>>36970110
>I'm not crazy! A vast majority of everybody else is crazy!
>>36971604
Not a vegan. Not even vegetarian. Just a concious consumer. Which costs you nothing, apart from minimal brain function.
>>36971695
Doesn't matter either way. http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2016/160419/ncomms11382/full/ncomms11382.html
Look, I'm not arguing everyone should go vegetarian or even vegan. But there is no debate as to the impact of the meat industry compared to your average plant cultivation, which in and of itself is also carbon neutral and will probably be totally carbon-neutral within the next two decades or so (affordable electromobility inbound, prepare your anus).
There is a reason insect-based foods are becoming a serious consideration.
But again: All this really means is that the average consumer ought to reduce their animal product intake. And everyone agrees on this anyhow, since the average consumer is an overweight fuck on three medications.
Everyone has to stop being either a snowflake or a spiteful child about everything.
We know what's up and it's up to everyone on how they want to behave as consumers and how far they want to take it. Vegetarians/vegans have to stop doing that holier than thou BS and people getting butthurt over wannabe-hippies have to stop being spitefully destructive and/or ignorant.
This thread reads a whole lot like the average political discussion on the internet, which devolves to name-calling between regressive leftists being brainless SJWs and flag swinging redneck-hearted doing the opposite "cause 'Murica!".
>>36972023
Pls tell me more about garden-farming, senpai.
I need to further detach myself from society.
Hey guys, it's the OP. Sorry I haven't been able to respond to your what I'm guessing is probably 95% retarded bullshit. I'm juggling school and work right now so I don't have much time for this and honestly wasn't expecting so many passionate responses. I'll try to address everything by the end of the day. I apologize for the wait time.
>>36974334
>vegan
>either in highschool or a student
figures
Because i dont give a fuck being miserable eating shitty ass vegan foods so i can live 5 years longer. Vegans are even worse than fat people.
>>36971482
Read a book, srs
There's actual predators in the Cambrian period eating other animals, that's over 500 million years ago, the first evidence of human ancestors as predators not herbivores is less than 3 million years ago.
>>36976230
I think you lost the point.
I said pretty much every animal has had a majority of herbivores in their ancestry
What exactly do you think we are talking about?
>>36976818
The implication of your post is that big cats are no more adapted to a carnivorous diet than humans are
My original post is that anon is wrong in saying
>we evolved to not be herbivores
I said
>most of our evolutionary history is as herbivores
You misunderstood me here, the only applicable period to this discussion is modern human ancestry ie the last ~50 million years. Human ancestors split off from other animals around here in the fossil record, we were primarily herbivorous until as recent as ~2.5 million years ago.
I should have been more clear so you didn't think I was talking about stromatoliths
>>36969936
> ITT: meat-eaters getting mad because they don't want to accept the fact that their diet contributes to global warming; deforestation; poor animal welfare; financial inequality; and loss of species, primarily because of "muh tastebuds"
>>36977124
ITP: vegan-shotposter getting mad because they don't want to accept that fact that nobody cares
>>36977124
>financial inequality
whoa-hoa-hoa, buddy
all right, hit me. how does me eating meat contribute to financial inequality?
>>36969936
enjoy having wrinkles at 20 and looking like a slave miner from Tajikistan by the time you're 30
>>36977124
Buttfrustrating vegans by not caring about the environment is just an added bonus.
>>36977124
>implying meatlovers care
>>36977234
>because you are like Steve jobs
>Steve jobs was rich and ate meat
>>36977268
close. my name is steve but i'm a manlet
I struggle to believe how little some people care about their surrounding environment. Your literal existence is dependent on the basic exchange between carbon dioxide and oxygen in your system and plant life plays an integral role in this.
>>36977174
> ITP: vegan-shotposter getting mad because they don't want to accept that fact that nobody cares
> nobody cares
If nobody cared:
(1) no one would've conjured such a thought in the first place; and
(2) there wouldn't be more people than myself who care about other inhabitants of the Earth besides themselves (vegan or not).
Also, I'm not vegan.
>>36977234
Transnational corporations avoiding paying tax.
>>36977259
I'm not even vegan.
>>36977288
ITP: "vegetarian" shitposter getting mad because nobody cares "apart from him"
>have irl waifu
>literally 11/10 thin and naturally fit all her life
>big animal lover
>posts inane cutesy shit on fb all the time
>kind of a weirdo,no bf,barely goes out
>goes vegan,falls for the healthy seeds meme
>see her the other day
>getting fat rapidly,full high test turbo mode
>she'll probably get grossly fat until I could ever approach her
>tfw I won't be able to save her by switching her to a low carb moderately high protein and fat natural diet
>>36970078
This. I didn't give a fuck about veganism until the retards started spamming /fit/ multiple times a day. Now I hate veganism and even if it let me live to a hundred I wouldn't do it just because of you fucks. You must be false flagging, because there's no universe where your incessant shitposting convinces anybody to go vegan.
>>36977288
>transnational corporations avoiding paying tax
You're right, no transnational corporation would ever dally in selling vegetables.
You, sir, are a fool.
>>36977334
>you, sir, are a fool
Back to Gaia online with ye
>>36977348
What?
>>36977124
Don't forget the economic burden all these fat, diseased meat eaters bring to the table. Health care costs are destroying the US faster than anything else. If fatty boombooms would swap their chicken for a serving of beans, we'd save billions of dollars every year.
>>36977351
Get out
>>36977382
Fuck you I've been here since 2005. You get out.
>>36977314
> implying I'm vegetarian
> implying I'm the only one who cares
>>36977334
> implying I don't know this
>>36977353
Exactly.
Not to mention the burden on National Healthcare Systems.
Most overweight people have a huge intake of fast food which is almost exclusively filled with meat.
>>36977401
>implying i don't know this
Okay, so, since your original answer has nothing to do with me eating meat, only with what companies I choose to give my money, let's try this again. How eating meat contribute to income inequality?
>>36977384
Jesus Christ how horrifying, ten years
>>36977414
Because companies which thrive off the meat industry, like McDonalds, provide their staff with inadequate wages/salaries.
>>36977124
Congratulations. You just argued why overpopulation is a problem.
>>36977643
I'm not oblivious to overpopulation anon. I think it's a crippling issue that undoubtedly needs tackling. However, it doesn't change the fact that alternative measures can be used to restore the equilibrium of a better planet for its inhabitants and nature itself.
>>36969936
You can find scientific studies supporting both perspectives. Scientific studies be damned, the evidence I need is found in my real life. Every male vegan or vegetarian I know is either a doughy schlub or a limp wristed betamax who could be knocked over by a fart. Every man I know who has muscle is an omnivore.
It's a pity because I would love it if it were true that one could make decent gains on a vegan diet, without having to spend a fortune on roids and/or vegan friendly protein supplements.
>>36977701
vegans are faggots and should kill themselves
quints get
>>36969936
Vegangainz plz go.
![Billy-robbins_1218406c[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2OjhqTU.jpg "Billy-robbins_1218406c[1].jpg")
>>36977701
>You can find scientific studies supporting both perspectives.
That's kind of a stupid way to look at it since what you would normally do in science is compare the quality of the studies and note the consistency of the findings, and come to a conclusion based on the totality of evidence, not think "one study superficially says one thing, another study I won't really read says the opposite, so fuck science."
>Every male vegan or vegetarian I know is either a doughy schlub or a limp wristed betamax who could be knocked over by a fart. Every man I know who has muscle is an omnivore.
And is everyone omnivore you know muscled? People basically come in three flavors no matter their diet; either skinny, fat, or muscular. By default, veg are more likely to be skinny, meats more likely to be fat. Most people who don't lift aren't naturally muscular. Your average American meat eater is obese with no muscle.
>>36977691
>However, it doesn't change the fact that alternative measures can be used to restore the equilibrium of a better planet for its inhabitants and nature itself.
Therefore vegetarianism? This is what I hate about you faggots. You jump as far to conclusions as possible while living in your own deluded viewpoint of the world that it's somehow going to change. NOBODY is going to switch to vegetarianism/veganism as long as meat remains as easily accessible as it is to the end-consumer. The meat industry will have to COLLAPSE well before a significant amount of the population turns to an alternative, and even then, we will more likely just look to alternative sources of MEAT, e.g., not pigs/cows/etc. Maybe even bugs if we want to go full gook. Humans are not sustainable on fucking vegetables.
And if you're worried about carbon footprint, there's a SHITTON of things we can reform before changing our fucking diets. Things that are actually tangible and don't affect people's lifestyles.
>>36970285
The teeth in this picture are completely wrong. Ever wonder what your canine teeth are for? it's not for chewing beans,
![toothcloseup1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IO6OTN0.jpg "toothcloseup1[1].jpg")
>>36977870
Tell us what these massive daggers in our mouths are for. I bet these huge fangs are made to rip the flesh right off the bone of a wooly mammoth.
>>36977891
Your canines have the deepest roots of all the teeth to provide extra support for a tearing like motion, such as, you guessed it, getting meat off a bone.
It's extremely prominent in primates, you know, the ones that rip small mammals apart and eat them? Oh wait they eat plants too, so I guess they could go vegan.
>>36977891
We're also extremely weak compared to other animals so we must be prey species right?
We use our brains and tools to get what we need. We don't need sharp-as-fuck teeth to eat meat.
>>36977912
Or maybe biting into an apple you dumbfuck. You don't even use your canines to chew cooked meat, and tons of herbivores have them lol.
>>36977891
>cherry picking examples of flat canines.
>>36977861
>You jump as far to conclusions as possible while living in your own deluded viewpoint of the world that it's somehow going to change.
> Being this mad
> NOBODY is going to switch to vegetarianism/veganism as long as meat remains as easily accessible as it is to the end-consumer.
> NOBODY
Except the vegetarians, vegans, and ethical eaters that you speak of...Read up on Arnold Schwarzenegger's comment on reducing the consumption of protein intake.
> there's a SHITTON of things we can reform before changing our fucking diets
Methane produced by animals, which are farmed to meet human demand for consumption, is more damaging to the ozone layer than the amount of CO2 produced by humans.
>>36977915
This.
>>36977912
> implying those animals have the same brain capacity as humans
K.
>>36977937
Obviously you're eating apples wrong, you use your incisors you fuck.
thanks for not addressing primates(our ancestors) using canines to rip meat off of bone.
>>36977944
>> NOBODY
>Except the vegetarians, vegans, and ethical eaters that you speak of
>he thinks vegshills count as people
>>36977944
So basically, since we're intelligent beings we can tell biology to fuck off? fuck evolution right? we need to save the animals.
![sri_lanka_monkey_teeth[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WnKQGdh.jpg "sri_lanka_monkey_teeth[1].jpg")
>>36977912
>It's extremely prominent in primates, you know, the ones that rip small mammals apart and eat them?
The ones who are nearly all herbivorous? Even little fruit eating monkeys have bigger canine teeth than humans. They use them for things unrelated to meat eating, like self defense.
>>36977915
>we got canines so we're super badass meat eating machines
>>our canines are barely even usable for eating meat
>well that's because our canines didn't evolve for meat eating, we have tools for that
So are we natural meat eaters who are just terrible at it, or are we artificial meat eaters who use tools to do things we aren't biologically built for? You can't have it both ways.
>>36977941
Oh yeah, much better. Those massive fangs extend almost 1/8 of a centimeter past that row of flat, grinding teeth. That man is practically a lion.
>>36977974
Oh you mean frugivores? that still.. eat.. meat.
>>36977978
>humans can't move their jaw back and forth in a grinding motion
>mastication (chewing food) not important
>>36977969
> ignoring the facts
>>36977970
> So basically, since we're intelligent beings we can tell biology to fuck off? fuck evolution right? we need to save the animals.
At which point in my post did I suggest we ignore biology and evolution?
Does it ever occur to you that changes in homosapiens might come from cultural or social change and how we interact with our surroundings? It's not necessarily backtracking or denying inevitable change.
>>36978001
That is not biology, it's sociology.
Just because people think eating meat is bad for you, doesn't mean that biologically we're changing. We're complex organisms evolved to eat a complex diet. As in literally anything humans/chimps find, they eat it.
I work at a McDonalds (I know, right, but it's $20 an hour and I do fuck all) and I have for years. I have seen an increase in the amount of burgers being ordered without meat, so I guess there is a trend. However, out of spite for vegans shoving veganism down peoples throat I go out of my way to throw five pieces of meat in the bin for every burger ordered. That costs the store probably $0.50, but it's worth every cent knowing some smug hipster thinks he is preventing the death of animals by ordering his hamburger without meat, when he really is being 5 times more impactful on the meat industry than that one guy he berates for ordering a hamburger with meat.
>>36977993
Most monkeys are herbivores. Even in chimpanzees, who are known to have an unusual amount of meat in their diets compared to other primates, meat makes up less than 2% of their diet and is mostly eaten when their main food sources are less available. Why are our canines so shitty compared to every other primate?
>>36978030
You're separating them though and the two are entwined. If sociology had nothing to do with biology, then biologically speaking, we'd have probably remained as uneducated cave men. We've seen that the establishment of strong communities coming together to collectively utilise their ideas has led to the development of society and, in turn, arguably the biological development of people - at least in an intellectual sense.
However, I'm not propounding that veganism/vegetarianism/being an ethical eater has anything to do with biological advancement (or regression as some here like to suggest).
>>36978047
Food waste is awful but the consumers who choose to eat more ethically can't possibly be at blame when it's the corporate interests at the top of the employment ladder who are the ones deciding how many patties need to be produced in order to meet consumer demand. Don't shift the blame.
>>36978047
I'm sure this is a troll post but I can imagine someone being so bitter and pathetic that they'd do something like this to feel like they're some kind of winner
>>36978057
Wow, it's almost as if they're omnivores huh?
We have smaller incisors because we no longer use our teeth to threaten predators/enemies. You can argue over teeth all day, but in the end humans have one of the most complex mouths in biology. It is designed to eat both meat and fruits. You literally cannot dispute evolution when it comes to diets.
But your internet research is exciting, please share more.
>>36978092
now you're confusing sociology with biology.
Humans evolved from lesser homos(no homo) do to the need to compete with an increasing population. We're smart because we're inherently violent, not because we communicate.
>>36978083
Neat, a picture for ants.
>>36978121
> We're smart because we're inherently violent
By 'we' do you mean 'men'? Psychologically, women are often portrayed as being conflict-averse. However, not all women are conflict-averse. I struggle to believe this claim.
>>36978104
I am a winner
>>36978147
Conflict is a bit different from survival of a species, but aight.
>>36978105
Sure they're omnivorous, and the word omnivore is practically useless for determining what an animal is best suited to eating. It only describes what they've been observed to eat. That you can eat anything you find doesn't mean it's automatically a good idea to eat everything. When you say "we're designed to eat both meat and fruits," you say designed like you think we've been crafted by an outside power and fine tuned to eat a specific diet. Obviously we haven't, and scientific research into the optimal human diet isn't kind to the idea that we're fundementally built as meat eaters. The balance of evidence on meat is currently "the less we eat, the better off we are."
>>36978176
Meat is not unhealthy for you. Meat can be a component of an unhealthy diet, but you can also easily make a vegan diet that is exceedingly unhealthy.
Guess who is healthier, the guy eating baked chicken breast and veggies for dinner or the vegan eating potato chips and microwave organic burritos?
You have no concept of basic nutrition and decided to not only adopt, but prosthelytize, some fringe insane diet that's been proven to literally kill children that try and follow it because they don't know about the weird nutrient deficiencies you encounter by following your weird ass ideas.
Have fun being unhealthy and eating unfulfilling food. I hope you die in a fire.
>>36978176
>The balance of evidence on meat is currently "the less we eat, the better off we are."
t. vegan "researchers" and "doctors"
>>36978223
>but you can also easily make a vegan diet that is exceedingly unhealthy.
Nobody said otherwise, but that's as dumb and fallacious as saying "soda isn't bad for you, you can have a bad diet that doesn't have soda in it"
See ya, goober
>>36978238
Literally the entire thread is claiming that you illiterate fuck. The thread is about vegan diet being superior to omnivorous diet. That's flatly untrue, as you just admitted.
A healthy diet can be omnivorous or vegetarian. It takes some effort to make a vegan diet healthy but it can be done.
>>36978223
Guys why not compromise and just admit Veganism is a cleaner more healthy way of life and eat a quality piece of humanely raised organic and local meat once a week?
All-or-nothing-ism puts meat heads and vegans in the same category.
>>36978277
>The thread is about vegan diet being superior to omnivorous diet. That's flatly untrue, as you just admitted.
Obviously not any vegan diet just by virtue of being vegan, but, like the DGAC found in their latest review of the evidence, a vegan diet has the most health potential. Again, it's like saying "a soda-free diet isn't healthier than a diet with soda." Obviously the rest of the diet matters, but the part being cut out is what we're talking about.
A "healthy omnivorous diet" is one that's closest to a vegetarian or vegan diet. Pulling from the DGAC again, they recommend a DASH diet or a Mediterranean diet (as well as a vegetarian diet explicitly) as healthy eating patterns for people to folllow. The DASH diet is modeled after a vegetarian diet but with a few ounces of meat allowed so that people will stick with it better. The mediterranean diet recommended includes meat once a week and is described as a mostly vegetarian diet as well. If anything, it requires more effort to be healthy on an omnivorous diet because you have more health hazards to watch out for by including meat in your diet, which may be why vegetarians and vegans are typically healthier than meat eaters.
>>36978345
That's stupid and so are vegans. It's not healthier than my diet and my diet includes lots of meat. And lots of that meat is factory raised chickens. It's cheap because the chickens are treated like the dumb thoughtless animals they are.
>>36978345
>implying "meat heads" only eat meat
>>36978378
>That's stupid and so are vegans. It's not healthier than my diet and my diet includes lots of meat. And lots of that meat is factory raised chickens. It's cheap because the chickens are treated like the dumb thoughtless animals they are.
Then keep eating them, dumbass, I don't really care. But you're just fucking wrong.
>>36978389
You know what the fuck I'm saying. A Meat head is someone who eats meat all the time.
>oh, fuck copypasta:
Increased consumption of animal products may lead to increased risk of Alzheimer’s disease: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24037034
High intake of fruits and vegetables associated with reduced risk of breast cancer:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22706630
Frequent consumption of nuts may protect against risk of cardiovascular disease:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1627021
Increasing legume intake can protect against coronary heart disease:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11718588
Increasing dietary folate can protect against stroke and heart disease:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11988588
Increasing dietary fibre can protect against heart and cardiovascular disease: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12963562, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11755286
Low intake of dietary cholesterol can prevent heart disease: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3052353, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16596800
>>36978104
I went vegan for a while
It was good although the farting was constant and uncontrollable
My gf's reactions throughout were always enjoyable.
>>36978372
The medical literature most strongly supports the Mediterranean diet, and these are studies looking at heart disease primarily. A Mediterranean diet includes a fair amount of fish and chicken. I have yet to see a large scale longitudinal study which has shown vegan diet superior to the Mediterranean diet. If you have one... Sure post it but until then you need to understand that vegan diet beating western diet is not an indictment of meat, it's an indictment of high sat fat, trans fat, over eating bullshit. This has literally nothing to do with meat. Some meat has these negative qualities, like red meat, but other meats do not. Just like some vegetable foods or vegan foods have these negative qualities, while others do not. So in fact everything you wrote as your conclusion was a lie. A vegan diet is not in any way related to health. A vegan diet can be awful, a vegan diet can be great. So stop fucking telling people it's better when it's not! Tell people to avoid high sat fat, avoid trans fat, get complex carbs, high fiber, Omega 3 fatty acids.
If you aren't knowledgeable enough to know what these things are please stop posting until you read a little. If you do know what they are then you're intentionally lying to people and you can go fuck yourself.
>>36978345
It doesn't work like that, doing heroin once in a blue moon is also not unhealthy. But ideal amount of heroin to take would be 0 grams a year, period.
Also killing animals for absolutely no reason other than taste is pretty sick. If you can live 6 days a week without meat why would you eat meat at the 7th day? Whether it's humane or not you will still cause unnecessary animal suffering and death.
Why not extreme vegetarianism?
>>36978401
You've never raised and slaughtered a chicken, have you? They're fucking dumb animals dude. And chicken breast is an amazingly healthy food.
I'm not hating, just curious but I've got a question for you health fags.
Being lean, active and not eating processed junk food everyday will put you light years ahead of the average person in regards to health.
Why bother any further than that? And yeah I get the whole ethic and environment argument, but that isn't what I'm asking.
>>36970475
That is not how black holes work, bro. Once you pass the event horizon space-time becomes hyperbolic. The space inside the event horizon is theoretically infinite - that's why light gets lost in it.
>>36977353
Fatties are actually less of a burden on healthcare in the long term since they don't live long enough for the real burdensome aspects of age to manifest
>>36978448
> Tell people to avoid high sat fat, avoid trans fat, get complex carbs, high fiber, Omega 3 fatty acids.
So basically, tell people to shift towards a more plant-based diet. That's what I'm doing.
Seriously though, the traditional mediterranean diet (mainly vegeterarian) is a relatively healthy diet, much healthier than most. That doesn't mean you can't improve on it. Remove the meat, dairy, and olive oil, and you get a diet that's even more impressive for heart health than anything we've seen with the mediterrean diet.
http://www.jfponline.com/the-publication/past-issue-single-view/a-way-to-reverse-cad/f74f8ebb9261a837f3511f407516c7e5.html
That's because those aspects of the diet are unhealthy, and by removing them (or more accurately, replacing them with healthier foods), you see better health outcomes.
>>36978372
>Baroni et al. = DGAC
>paper uses some vague untested summation of arbitrary "substances which have a negative impact on respiration, organic and inorganic compounds, carcinogenesis, climate change and ozone, ionizing radiations" to determine health impact
>>36978453
>Also killing animals for absolutely no reason other than taste is pretty sick. If you can live 6 days a week without meat why would you eat meat at the 7th day? Whether it's humane or not you will still cause unnecessary animal suffering and death.
There are all kinds of practical and pragmatic reasons why your arguments are untrue and in fact, counterproductive to a goal of less meat eating in general.
Given - killing animals for "taste" is sick. But if someone agrees to cut their meat consumption by 1/7 (86%) they are far more likely to eat even LESS meat.
By keeping meat eating off the table of choices - regardless of its ultimate objective morality - you increase your chances of using argument to reduce the total amount of animal killing going on.
Second, I object to the term unnecessary animal suffering and death. The transformation of animal flesh to human flesh as a conscious practice is an important way for a human to know who he is in terms of existence within a greater food chain. And conscious meat eating is probably the best possible outcome of all.
The real enemy here is careless eating: eating which divorces appetite from purpose. For example, subsistence peoples ate certain local salmon and in return defended the salmon and their river habitat from invading white people (they lost of course). But the point here is that, if someone eats meat, and then cares about that meat, he can become an advocate for the animals and the habitats that the meat comes from. If he is conscious he can feel animal spirits. He can sense animal presence. He can speak with authority on behalf of the animals.
Unconscious eaters imbibe factory meat- industrial meat- meat of confinement and suffering. They unconsciously integrate the values of that system of exploitation into their tissues. This gives rise to cancer, of which their part is advocating cancer, so to speak, out in the world.
>>36978470
>You've never raised and slaughtered a chicken, have you? They're fucking dumb animals dude. And chicken breast is an amazingly healthy food.
I have and it is but I was saying you are the dumb one, not the chickens. But when one is eating dumb chickens its not surprising they become dumb because the adage "you are what you eat" is biochemically true.
>>36978631
> if someone eats meat, and then cares about that meat, he can become an advocate for the animals and the habitats that the meat comes from. If he is conscious he can feel animal spirits. He can sense animal presence. He can speak with authority on behalf of the animals.
you sound more hippie than the vegans
>>36978417
>he thinks you need to go full vegan to avoid the problems of eating too much meat
>>36978495
The post was only about how to MAKE a black hole. Not how it just werks
>>36978536
>http://www.jfponline.com/the-publication/past-issue-single-view/a-way-to-reverse-cad/f74f8ebb9261a837f3511f407516c7e5.html
Not that anon, but do you not think the improvements which accompany weight loss and medication prescribed aren't rather large confounders?
>>36978536
Lol is this a joke? Fish and lean meats are not risk factors for cardiovascular disease you silly goose. Your citation doesn't even support what you claim (literally read the first paragraph).
I listed the specific elements of a diet known to be cardiovascular risk factors. These elements can be found in plant diets and in animal diets. You're an abject retard if you can't figure this out. It's very simple.
>>36978536
They gave people with existing disease a complex multifactorial intervention and compared them to those who didn't adhere. You can't use this to say meat, dairy, and olive oil are bad or that a mediterranean diet is worse without directly looking at those things.
>>36970078
There aren't any actual vegans on this bored dude. Just retards pretending to be vegan retards.
Every vegan thread here is pure fucking bait.
It's just really easy to impersonate and smug, vegan tool because all you have to do is act like a smug vegan tool.
>>36978483
>Being lean, active and not eating processed junk food everyday will put you light years ahead of the average person in regards to health. Why bother any further than that? And yeah I get the whole ethic and environment argument, but that isn't what I'm asking.
There are millions of reasons people eat or live "healthy". You really can't generalize. Some people who appear to eat or act strangely are responding to very personal issues or internal subjects of focus that are invisible to the outside world.
Some people have more potential than others. Many people who are acting strangely are just attempting to fulfill potentials you can't perceive. How do you think Bruce Lee would respond to someone who asked him why it wasn't enough to do 20 one-finger push ups?
>>36978521
>Fatties are actually less of a burden on healthcare in the long term since they don't live long enough for the real burdensome aspects of age to manifest
You couldn't be more wrong. Fat people get old, too.
>>36971254
This is true.
And then we evolved.
Meat eaters are literally more evolved than vegans.
>>36978741
Other trials have caused weight loss without anywhere near the same results. Even patients with no medication saw significant regression of the disease (figure 2)
>>36978763
>Lol is this a joke? Fish and lean meats are not risk factors for cardiovascular disease you silly goose
Fish and lean poultry are considered better alternatives to fatty red meats. Within a population of meat eaters, they're "heart healthy" meats simply because they aren't as bad as other meats, not because they have no problems at all. They still have cholesterol and usually saturated fat as well, and replacing them with other foods can further lower cholesterol and blood pressure, which are risk factors.
>Your citation doesn't even support what you claim (literally read the first paragraph).
"Getting at the root cause of CAD requires a different approach. CAD begins with progressive endothelial injury,8 inflammatory oxidative stress, diminution of nitric oxide production, foam cell formation, and development of plaques that may rupture to cause a myocardial infarction (MI) or stroke.9 This cascade is set in motion in part by, and is exacerbated by, the western diet of added oils, dairy, meat, fowl, fish, sugary foods (sucrose, fructose, and drinks containing those, refined carbohydrates, fruit juices, syrups, and molasses) that injures or impairs endothelial function after each ingestion, making food choices a major, if not the major, cause of CAD"
Not sure what you're reading
>>36978782
It didn't compare the experimental diet to a mediterranean diet, but the point I'm making is that the result of the experimental diet in that study is seven hells of a lot more powerful than any study involving the mediterranean diet, which already discourages meat and dairy products. By taking the extreme and removing them altogether rather than just eating them "in moderation," you get amazing results. Eating none of an unhealthy thing is better than eating some of an unhealthy thing.
>>36978646
>> if someone eats meat, and then cares about that meat, he can become an advocate for the animals and the habitats that the meat comes from. If he is conscious he can feel animal spirits. He can sense animal presence. He can speak with authority on behalf of the animals.
>you sound more hippie than the vegans
Most hippies I know are fully unconscious eaters. Vegans are high on a feeling. Conscious eating is like this:
You starve yourself of meat for a month or two. Then you eat a carefully selected piece of meat in a meal. Suddenly its like an orgasm in your brainstem. You feel like you are floating. Your senses are sharper and you have the urge to howl at the moon. Its really amazing.
Normal people eat a burger, wipe sauce off their chin and 4 hours later shit a thin gruel, and then repeat day in and day out without feeling anything at all. Its really kind of pathetic, in part, as vegans rightly claim, there is no reason or value in regular meat consumption.
>>36978851
You can't keep making statement after statement with no support and expect us to interpret it as anything other than the opinion of one random Internet denizen.
I know you think you're very smart but if you don't even know how to read pub med I have to doubt.
>>36978818
That's a fair point, and I can understand an athlete seeking a perfect diet; but what kind of potentials that "I can't perceive" are we talking about that would be worthwhile for your average recreational gym goer?
>>36978851
>ther trials have caused weight loss without anywhere near the same results. Even patients with no medication saw significant regression of the disease (figure 2)
Well my point was how much of the how much of the results can be chalked up to the diet or the meds/weight loss. It doesn't even mention what drugs they were prescribed or if they changed during the course of the trial.
And it was one patient not several of who wasn't even in the trial, reverse image search lead me to this which contained the exact same image published 13 years earlier
http://www.dresselstyn.com/resolving_cade.htm
>>36978887
Aside from the study I posted, I guess you mean. We should be able to agree, since you (or someone else) said that the mediterranean diet is healthy, that there are things about the mediterranean diet that make it healthy. What do you think makes the mediterranean diet healthy? From the man who introduced the diet to the US, "The heart of this diet is mainly vegetarian, and differs from American and northern European diets in that it is much lower in meat and dairy products and uses fruit for dessert."
An anatomy of health effects of the mediterranean diet says that the low consumption of meat is a major reason for the benefits of the diet, in addition to having lots of plant foods
http://www.bmj.com/content/338/bmj.b2337
Which is in line with research that shows vegetarian diets are associated with better health than omnivorous diets (and vegan, moreso than vegetarian)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/
So the less of these things in peoples' diets, the better their health. Why wouldn't you say these foods are unhealthy?
>>36978943
>That's a fair point, and I can understand an athlete seeking a perfect diet; but what kind of potentials that "I can't perceive" are we talking about that would be worthwhile for your average recreational gym goer?
I thought about it and heres my answer. First, there is no such thing as an average gym-goer. Consider the fact that if you are typical, you have maybe several hundred genes that participate in physical processes that link to exercise. By exercising you induce epigenetic modification, which can enhance or diminish the activation and threshold response of those genes. Over time, you can see "progress" externally. Internally, at the cellular level heritable long-term changes are occurring at the genetic level and alter the way the entire biochemical and physical system works. Changing the body changes the brain. Changing both changes the mind.
Everyone is walking around with primordial potentials locked away in ancient disused and deactivated genes. You can in fact enable caveman mode. And it is awesome feeling. It is the way people are supposed to feel. Its the feeling of being really alive.
>>36979072
> but what kind of potentials that "I can't perceive" are we talking about that would be worthwhile
Lower stress levels
Lower resting heart rate
Deeper sleep
Increased muscular strength
Increased speed and agility
Increased endurance
Increased resistance to disease
Increased rate of healing
Increased metabolism
Increased resistance to insulin
Increased mental clarity
Increased learning ability
This is just a sample of a very long list of very real effects. I'd say if you are not experiencing most of the above you are not really exercising.
>>36979110
>increased resistance to insulin
You mean decreased resistance, increased sensitivity. Insulin resistance is what leads to diabetes. Insulin sensitivity means you produce less insulin because your insulin action works more efficiently.
>>36979072
>Everyone is walking around with primordial potentials locked away in ancient disused and deactivated genes. You can in fact enable caveman mode. And it is awesome feeling. It is the way people are supposed to feel. Its the feeling of being really alive.
Somehow I find this hard to believe, after all out caveman ancestors were actually skinny little endurance twinks; or at least that is my understanding
>>36979110
>This is just a sample of a very long list of very real effects.
I'm not denying it, do you not think the hassle and worry about eating certain foods and restricting other outweighs all the benefits? I guess that is a subjective question, which for me it does and for you it clearly doesn't.
But then there is of what magnitude are these benefits when comparing someone who is lean active and eating a reasonable diet vs someone who is the same but eats whatever you perceive as the perfect diet? All of which will be hard to actually test for since something stupid like 70% of the western populace are overweight or obese.
I've pretty much just answered my own question here haven't I.
>>36978851
>It didn't compare the experimental diet to a mediterranean diet, but the point I'm making is that the result of the experimental diet in that study is seven hells of a lot more powerful than any study involving the mediterranean diet, which already discourages meat and dairy products.
Do you have a meta-analysis with decent statistical power to support this?
>By taking the extreme and removing them altogether rather than just eating them "in moderation," you get amazing results.
Evidence? Ignoring the low n of the non-adherent group, I don't see anything in there factoring the degree of non-adherence to the consumption of these foods and adverse events.
>Eating none of an unhealthy thing is better than eating some of an unhealthy thing.
The dose makes the poison.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poisonous_plants
>>36977998
>implying digestive acids and enzymes aren't responsible for chemical digestion.
Humans jaw musculature allows for rotation, but due to the origin and insertion of the temporalis and masseter muscles, the primary muscles of mastication, are located in a fashion designed for vertical adduction and abduction.
We're well designed to eat on the run, which could be a factor on our jawlines, or the fact that most primates are omnivores.
>>36969936
Can't get gains if you don't eat a pound of boneless skinless chicken breast EVERY SINGLE DAY
COME ON
>>36971439
>they are not intelligent animals they dont have feelings only instincts. They dont feel sad because they are about to die,
You don't know much about animal psychology, do you?
