>he doesn't eat soy
>he doesn't eat meat
Why aren't you eating the master race diet and having both vegan and meat proteins?
>Eating soy when you have peanuts
>>36868593
Why not both?
Soy doesn't actually increase your estrogen brah, that's a meme just like GOMAD and SS. Best part is cow's milk has more estrogen that soy.
>>36868564
because soy had some estrogen looking molecules in it.
>>36868564
Why not just cut out meat? You can get plenty of protein from rice, beans, grains, plus every fruit and vegetable is at least 5% protein.
All the benefits of protein, without the negative effects of meat
>>36868663
I like the taste of meat
I don't even season my burgers because I enjoy the taste
>>36868609
but milk has other beneficial hormones too. like IGF-1.
Soy doesnt
>>36868689
soy has fiber which decreases estrogen in male
>>36868674
but then you're getting unhealthy fats and carcinogens, plus contributing to the suffering and death of animals, and the effects animal agriculture has on the environment.
I agree, meat tastes really good, but it comes at a price unfortunately
>>36868704
carcinogens are when you overcook meat
unhealthy fats are debatable but I hardly eat meat, like I said I have a balance of everything
>>36868697
eat vegetables? or do you have a diet with no fiber?
Milk is made for animals to grow, soy isnt.
Milk have really good protein profile with whey:casein ratio of 1:3
Its one of the most complete foods, a long with eggs, nutrition wise.
Its animal protein, so its bioavailability is way higher.
TL;DR milk is better.
>>36868689
>IGF-1
literally the cancer hormone
>>36868609
>doesn't know how xenoestrogen works
Rip, you'll look like a bitch boy with no sex drive soon.
>>36868734
milk is made for baby cows to grow*
>>36868720
true, but also red meat has been shown to increase cancer risk.
At least you keep it to a minimum, so you're probably fine.
>>36868734
Milk isn't made for animals to grow, it's made for baby cows to grow. Humans have no business drinking it honestly.
>>36868734
All people are lactose intolerant to a degree, its mutation that allows us to even digest it.
Plus it makes you fat.
>>36868704
>unhealthy fats
"no"
>>36868756
The increased cancer risk is caused by the fact that they aren't consuming enough fiber. smash out some fiber supps and you're gucci.
>>36868609
>he felt for soy increases estrogens is a meme meme
>>36868768
All people arent lactose intolerant to a degree. Where do you get that from?
Mutations is the reason we can do anything, process carbs, gluten, vitamins, minerals. Whats your point?
Calorie surplus makes you fat. Not a certain food.
>>36868756
>Humans have no business drinking it honestly
says who? you?
Eggs are made for small birds, not for humans. Does the same logic apply to eggs too?
>>36868749
if IGF-1 so cancerous why do your brain produce it? it comes from anterior pituitary gland.
>>36868807
Possible causes include nitrates and nitrites found in meat, that contribute to the formation of N-nitroso compounds which can cause cancer, and also heme iron, which meat contains a lot of. Heme iron damages the mucosa of the colon which can also lead to cancer.
It could be a multitude of other things as well, but I'd rather not risk it
>>36868854
are you talking about that study which shows eating meat increase the chance of getting one form of cancer by 50 or 25%.
The one where they played with numbers to make it look insane. when in reality they used relative risk instead of absolute.
so a 50% increase would mean 0.3% instead of 0.2%
>>36868609
Soy clearly has xenoestrogens. In fact the overconsumption of soy products is one of the main reasons that girls are entering puberty earlier than ever before. Some as young as 7 years old.
>>36868852
yes, eggs are a literally a chickens period. I don't see why we should eat eggs either.
>>36868899
I was just quoting the Canadian Cancer Society. They have references at the bottom. http://www.cancer.ca/en/cancer-information/cancer-101/what-is-a-risk-factor/diet/meat/
>>36868564
Because soy makes me projectile vomit.
My gastro said I was the first person he'd even seen test reactive to soy.
I have never been so proud in my life. My body violently rejects hippy vegetarian dogma to it's fucking core.
>>36868663
> negative effects of meat
I hate this meme
if you're lifting and don't eat like a fatass, both of which you should be doing, you will completely mitigate the negative effects of meat
> inb4 vegan shills come in with that WHO study
>>36868936
As a Japanese male, I'm insulted you assume vegans are the only people who eat soy. I thought this website was for weaboos.
Also, Edamame and Tofu are delicious if prepared correctly
>>36868944
I was talking more about the ethical and environmental effects, which I'm going to go out on a limb and say can't be mitigated by lifting
>>36868960
no, but then it's a personal choice and you have no business telling other people how to live their lives
stop proselytizing on a fitness board. there are other boards which will be much more receptive to veganism
>>>/fa/
>>>/ck/
to name a few
>>36868954
There is more to life than tofu and soy sauce, sempai.
>>36868960
I feel like the environment issue is way more due to overpopulation.
Were like a cancer to this world. as our numbers bloom up we cause more and more damage, like a cancer.
>>36868973
I wasn't proselytizing, OP asked why we don't include both protein sources in our diets and I gave my reasons why.
I do think eating less meat contributes to better /fit/tnes too though, although that's a lot more debatable.
>>36868980
I agree. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with meat eating if it was done like it was before the industrial revolution.
>>36869005
yeah, This is why i'm gonna take up hunting. one elk is enough to feed a whole family with meats and organs. Plus the meat from wild game taste better
Another thing is that people have stopped eating organs, and only eat meat. Which is sad when organs have so much nutrients.
>>36869005
well it depends on the meat, doesn't it? I mean, processed red meats are verboten atm because of that WHO study but the jury is still out on poultry, low-mercury fish, etc.
I definitely agree with you that variety is the best option and you should be getting your protein from a variety of sources
>>36869094
Yeah, the only thing you can really do is try not to eat too much of one thing and hope for the best
>>36868854
>nitrates and nitrites found in meat, that contribute to the formation of N-nitroso compounds which can cause cancer
Avoided by not consuming processed meat.
>Heme iron damages the mucosa of the colon which can also lead to cancer.
No it doesn't. It needs to (1) be oxidized, which is not a problem if your overall diet is good and harsh cooking methods aren't used and (2) cross the colonic mucosal barrier to gain access to colonocytes, which requires lots of mucus-degrading bacteria (dysbiosis), caused by a diet low in fiber.
>>36868564
Who are these pretty women?
>Not being at least vegetarian
>All these faggots about to die from heart disease
>>36868609
>soy doesn't increase estrogen
>soy is recommended for women going through menopause
>>36869415
yeah and low fat diets are recommended for losing fat because doctors have 0 knowledge on nutrition
>>36868954
Can we fuck? Gay jap porn us my fetish
>>36868755
You do realize cows aren't the only animal that produces milk right? All mammals do. Humans are mammals.
>>36868756
>Milk isn't made for animals to grow, it's made for baby cows to grow. Humans have no business drinking it honestly.
That is exactly what it's for. Cows aren't the only animals that produce milk. Humans grow on milk too that's why women have breasts and produce milk to feed to their babies.
used to be vegetarian, it was all good health-wise until i decided to lift.
At that point I reached an impasse. I had to get protein quick. Yes you can get complete protein from pulses and rice, however they are so full of carbs that you have to eat massive amounts to get anything from them. same with nuts (although i was allergic) and seeds.
Then came soy, easy, protein rich and often molded into food that tasted sort of like how i remembered meat. I started eating it, alongside loads of eggs and milk. And I got Gyno and my gains were futile.
I decided if i was going to lift weights, some chickens and fish had to unfortunately sacrificed. I started eating chicken and fish and my gains exploded and my gyno has decreased somewhat.
Yeah I'm not sure exactly whether Xenoestrogens are to blame or why this happened, but this was my experience.
>>36868954
High soy consumption is probably why asian men are so feminine in general.
>>36869735
You are not alone.
>>36869715
Yes, human milk is for humans. Cow milk is for cows. What are you trying to prove? If anything we should be drinking milk harvested from women, not cows. Bu for some reason people find the thought of that disgusting. Pretty fucked up huh?
>>36869691
Cow milk isn't human milk. There are a lot of studies out there stating the consumption of cow milk has brought a lot of diseases to humans. Theorizing of course. But you shouldn't discount theories
>>36869735
It's the milk that gave you gyno, milk is full of hormones. Xenoestrogen is man made so it cant be found in soy beans. The people in this thread are getting confused with phytoestrogen,it's the plant version of estrogen that is really high in soy products BUT fortunately it isnt compatible with human so you litteraly shit it out without absorbing any of it.
>>36868756
And electricity is for clouds we have no business using it. Fire is for wood so we better stay away from it too. Horses aren't for riding! Get off that thing! Who said you could sharpen that to create a tool?
See how completely irrelevant the original intention (whose intention?) of something is?
>>36869854
I still drink and eat a fuck load of dairy my man.
I'm telling you, I literally just ate chicken and fish and cut out soy, and the gyno mostly went and my gains improved. Again I'm not saying anything causal here, but there is definitely a correlation
>>36869928
oh damn thats a black of white fallacy.
>>36869962
black or white*
>>36869943
Another fallacy. This one is anecdotal.
>>36868609
>Best part is cow's milk has more estrogen that soy.
Except that's completely false. These vegan shitpost threads are second only to /pol/shit threads in killing /fit/.
>>36868928
Soy is literally a plant fetus, but you eat it anyways. You can make anything sound disgusting and unnatural if you describe it like a retard.
>>36870193
no, a soybean is plant seed
fetus =/= seed
>>36869854
>Xenoestrogen is man made
>Xenoestrogens are a type of xenohormone that imitates estrogen. They can be either synthetic or natural chemical compounds.
Are vegans really this stupid? Or are they just lying? I can't even tell anymore.
>>36868564
I fucking hate ijustine
>>36870218
And a chicken egg is an unfertilized egg. Egg =/= period.
See? It's easy to be a retarded cunt, but it's hard to actually sound mildly intelligent and field actual arguments.
>>36870223
Xeno=foreign
Hormone=long distance signalling molecule
They're saying you can get them from other species or from labs, which is true
>>36870236
>Natural xenoestrogens include phytoestrogens which are plant-derived xenoestrogens. Because the primary route of exposure to these compounds is by consumption of phytoestrogenic plants, they are sometimes called "dietary estrogens".
Just stop. Phytoestrogens are a subset of xenoestrogens, and this is common knowledge to anybody who knows about them. You're clearly too uneducated to be having a discussion on this topic.
>>36868663
If you actually lift, there's simply no way to keep yourself going with a vegan-based diet.
>>36870224
oh so you're a virgin
>>36870275
Go tell that to Patrik Baboumian that surely outlift you in every lift.
AHHHH
JUST ANSWER ME THIS
If I drink soy protein, will I get bitch-tits? Will there be any noticeable long-term estrogen side-effects or not? This thread is almost exactly 50/50 and I don't know who to believe.
If I research it I can't find anything conclusive, it's always
>Many believe that soy can reduce testosterone levels, but the effect appears to be weak and inconsistent. Some studies show a small reduction, while others find no effect
WILL I GET GYNO OR NOT!???
>>36868901
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/12/02/367811777/how-girls-are-developing-earlier-in-an-age-of-new-puberty
>We did look at soy intake, both by asking the girls what they ate and also the measuring the levels in the urine. And we found preliminary data that suggests that soy is actually protective and that higher soy intake may lead to later puberty, even when controlling for the differences in the families where there was a lot of soy intake because obviously there are differences in families that are giving their kids a lot of tofu.
>The theory would be that the estrogen mimicking effects of soy may actually cause the body to become resistant to estrogen — that it may down-regulate the estrogen receptor, so that later in life, your body doesn't perceive or see estrogen in quite the same way.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joel-fuhrman-md/girls-early-puberty_b_857167.html
>The average age at menarche in Western countries began declining during the early part of the 20th century due to increased consumption of animal products and increasing calorie intake; the decline slowed in the 1960s, and now in the U.S. there has been a more recent surge in early puberty starting in the mid-1990s
>Higher total protein, animal protein, and meat intake in children age 3-7 have been associated with earlier menarche in multiple studies.[13-15] In contrast, higher vegetable protein intake at age 5-6 is associated with later menarche.[15]
>High dairy consumption is associated with earlier than average menarche.[17]
>>36870300
>b-b-but here's one exception to the rule of veganism, your point is invalid!
1/10, apply yourself.
![20269[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TQSCxzZ.jpg "20269[1].jpg")
>>36868807
>smash out some fiber supps
Fiber supplements don't do shit but make your poop bulkier. They don't come with the benefits of fiber from food.
http://www.aicr.org/assets/docs/pdf/fact-sheets/factsheet-about-fiber.pdf
>Fiber supplements do not provide you with the vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and phytochemicals that work together to prevent cancer. Processed foods with added fiber also do not offer enough protection.
Gradually crowd out meat in your diet with beans and you'll be a lot healthier in the long run.
>>36870350
I am vegan myself. Here is my personal best on the big 4. Bench 200,Squat 270, Deadlift 315, OHP 135. I am 5f7 at 145lbs. I am no monster but you can build muscle on a vegan diet.
>>36870346
no, you need to consume ludicrous amounts of soy to see any sort of effects.
>>36870346
Yes.
>>36870346
>>36868901
No, you won't get gyno with phytoestrogens or soy. You're more likely to get mantits with chicken or beef. This has been documented countless times and debunked and documented again. There's no "50/50" in this thread if you looked at actual sources.
>le phytoestrogen meme
It has no impact on human male hormones.
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224
>Clinical studies show no effects of soy protein or isoflavones on reproductive hormones in men
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20378106
>Soybean isoflavone exposure does not have feminizing effects on men: a critical examination of the clinical evidence.
>http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/4/1155.long
>The results of this analysis suggest that consumption of soy foods is associated with a reduction in prostate cancer risk in men
There are only a couple of publications reporting *aberrant* isolated results
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18558591
>An unusual case of gynecomastia
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476
>To the best of our knowledge, this is the first report of a combination of decreased free testosterone and increased DHEA blood concentrations after consuming a soy-rich diet.
Please continue eating your hormones-enriched chicken
>>36870486
Thanks anon, I really appreciate that. I'll save this post for future soy-scare threads.
>>36870422
>manlet
>under 150 pounds
>Even your e-stats are unimpressive
Wewest of lads.
>>36870486
>You're more likely to get mantits with chicken or beef
>>>/lgbt
>>>/out/
>>36870422
>he thinks this is impressive?
>>36870486
>J.H.-R while a doctoral student at the University of Minnesota received some minor funding from the Soy Nutrition Institute for work on this manuscript
> M.S.K. occasionally consults for the Solae Company.
> M.J.M. regularly consults for companies in the soy food industry.
>M.M. regularly consults for companies that manufacture and/or sell soyfoods and/or isoflavone supplements, and he is the executive director of the Soy Nutrition Institute, a science-based organization that is funded in part by the soy industry and the United Soybean Board.
Take the conclusions with a grain of salt
>>36870486
Soy-shiller please leave my /fit/
Selling steroids email
James2006@keemail. Me
>>36870573
What a beautiful destruction of that vegan's post.
>>36871514
I also eat vegan I just don't 100% trust soy as a main protein source. There's plenty of other high-protein legumes besides it anyway that people should be eating
>>36870573
>>36871514
It's pretty common for a researcher in a field to have contacts with professionals in that field. As long as everything is transparent and the work is peer-reviews, it's ok. Rather than "taking with a grain of salt" try to find a publication stating the opposite or contesting those outcomes (you'll find none). One of those works is a "restatement" of the state-of-art about soy and phytoestrogens, across every research performed on this matter.
I don't really blame you, probably you're still high-schoolers and you don't know how academic research is performed.
>>36872363
>It's pretty common for a researcher in a field to have contacts with professionals in that field. As long as everything is transparent and the work is peer-reviews, it's ok
If they work for the industry and are being paid by the industry to do the research, they're probably going to find what they're looking for. It's the same with papers funded by the beef industry, the egg industry, the snack food industry, the chocolate industry, etc. Peer-review only makes it unlikely that the data is made up, it rarely means anything about how good the methodology is and how useful the data is. You can use legit study design to slant results in your favor. And if a study doesn't show what they want, they don't have to get it published.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding_bias
I find it hard to even find a study done on soy that wasn't funded by industry, and of the few that aren't, it's hard to find one that measures free testosterone instead of just total testosterone, which is what matters
So, I eat other stuff
>>36872583
>linking wikipedia
so we resorted to this.
Yes, every research made in a field is usually performed with some connections (sometimes, with funds) from the industry. Peer-review is *the only thing* that matters. Papers rarely are intended to be interpreted by "final users" and usually are aimed at researchers and professionals. Peer review make sure that *both* methodology and data are ok.
There's the anedoctal study funded by philip morris on cancer by dairy and biscuits (used in old ad campaigns, trying to minimize the perception of the impact of passive smoking in the general public). That is still valid today (and used as an argument about cancer correlation in some foods). If a paper funded by Hitler says that the Jews are inferior, and the paper is peer-reviewed... the paper states the truth.
As you noticed, you rarely find any paper in the food industry without any kind of connection. At best, you'll find independent studies on a *diet* (e.g. Mediterranean diet, Atkins diet) without so much focus on a single food.
As you noticed, variety is king. Sure. Recent researches (on diet) found that a very low in meat, high in seasonable veggies and fruits diet has both chelating and anti-cancer effects.
As per "I don't trust this source of protein"... it's even possible that a particular variety of $food has different properties from the "stock" $food used in the experiments. It's possible that a personal response to a $food is different from the response to the same food in the general population.
It should be good practice to perform annual or bi-annual check-ups (at least blood tests). Personally, I used soy in a varied diet for quite a long time and the lower test I had was ~1200 ng/dL, so I have no reasons to worry.
>>36871940
Fuck the macros - lentils are great food. I often use them as the carbs in a meal.
As a bonus you get to pumps some amazing farts the next day.
>>36872583
Tofu is nice though.
>>36872363
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/16/4/829.abstract?ijkey=5c5212306b3bc89960722894891ccd8171c26604&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha
>>36868704
>unhealthy fats
like soy oil,canola oil and other man-made chemical oils derived from plants that are toxic as is. Only commercial oil I would use is sunflower because you can eat sunflower straight from the plant. OTher than that,butter is the best cooking fat,and with animal lard, olive oil rounding out the rest,save some unprocessed nut oils for flavour or variety.
>>36868928
Aah ok,nice b8,had me fooled for a bit. Thank you for exposing veganism.
Anyway all animals that can eat egg eats it,they have been a part of mammalian diets since we were crawling around in the mud.
>>36873265
>butter and lard
>good
>>36873318
THIS IS A CHRISTIAN BOARD FFS
>>36873159
Nice, but that's on a peculiar soy powder, not on soybeans (the whole fruit/cereal/food has different effects on humans: see the position of the WHO about sugars in fruits) and there's no indication of free and total test, only serum (the "bias" was: trying to understand the implications of soy on cancer; even the "soy-funded" studies found protective effects of soy on prostate cancer). Serum test isn't an indicator for anabolism, nor for muscle protein synthesis, nor for "sex drive".
>>36871940
>59 grams of fiber
I'm not sure how it is with normal people's bowels, but if I ate that much fiber in a day then I'd shit out my intestines because of my IBS.
Also dietary fiber isn't factored into the caloric value, so that's straight up lying to you. Meat is still infinitely superior to lentils in terms of macros for lifting, but if it works for you then do what you want. Just don't post shill threads or shill posts on here.
>>36873334
all of these studies also use isolates and concentrates instead of soybeans >>36870486
>>36872363
>it's ok for the lead researcher to actively be on the pay roll and receive funding from interested companies
Yes, I'm sure the scientists will totally publish negative results that piss off one of the biggest foods lobbies on the planet. Yet if this was an egg study showing that eggs don't affect serum cholesterol, you'd be losing your shit I'd it was found the scientists were getting paid by egg companies. The hypocrisy is palpable.
>>36868609
>Peer review is wrong but beta male vegan blogs are right.
UNFERMENTED soy increases estrogen you fucking mong.
>>36873366
Well, actually it's a bit more complicated than I just said. Fiber comes out to about 1.5 kcal per gram from absorbing the fatty acids released from gut bacteria, but you can't straight up pretend like it's non-existent because it's convenient.
>>36873366
>Also dietary fiber isn't factored into the caloric value
Yes it is. Do the math.
2g fat x 9 = 18 calories
50g protein x 4 = 200 calories
115g carbs x 4 = 460 calories
678 calories
Of those carbs 59g are from fiber, 4g are from sugars. The sugar carbs account for 16 of the 460 carb calories, the fiber accounts for 236. Remove the fiber calories and you get 442 total calories.
whats next? You guys going to try to convince me that flax actually increases testosterone?
>>36873366
>shill
I don't think you know what it means, or you fell for the meme. Any informative post is welcome. If it hurts your autism, close the tab.
>fiber
Not sure what you meant, maybe you considered it an anti-nutrient?
>>36873380
Are you sure?
>http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/4/1155.long
> We used the following terms in combination for the literature search: soy (tofu, soy milk, miso, and natto), isoflavones (genistein, daidzein), prostate, and epidemiology (cohort, case-control).
>>36873397
Probably they won't publish negative results, this doesn't make the positive results any less respectable. Someone will research an adverse publication if they have a reason to.
>>36871940
Lentils amino profile is shit. Enjoy your useless protein.
>>36868564
soy is actually really fucking dangerous shit
>>36868609
as someone who lives/works on a soy farm I can promise you that soy is literally a poison and we know it and try to avoid eating it ourselves
but keep buying our literally poisonous crop faggot
>>36873433
tofu and soy milk are processed soy extracts, miso and natto are fermented and miso is mostly salt anyway, and isoflavone supplements are obviously extracts of the phytoestrogens not soy beans
soybeans have 40% calories from fat, and mostly omega 6, greasy shit
>>36873324
read good calories bad calories
Also google the israeli paradox,all of them eat ""heart healthy"" fats instead of your quetes and they all die of heart disease at an alarming rate
>>36873440
>I'm a farmer
Ok, I'll value your anecdotal, absolutely true (who would lie over the internet?) story more than scientific researches, thank you for sharing.
>>36873459
>read good calories bad calories
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QImWYirF0es&index=1&list=PLv3QDzdxan_JkGX47Rpboyh2oYyAFZDBA
>>36873454
those aren't isolates or concentrates.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224
>PubMed and CAB Abstracts databases were searched through July 1, 2008, with use of controlled vocabulary specific to the databases, such as soy, isoflavones, genistein, phytoestrogens, red clover, androgen, testosterone, and SHBG. Peer-reviewed studies published in English were selected if [1] adult men consumed soy foods, isolated soy protein, or isoflavone extracts (from soy or red clover) and [2] circulating T, SHBG, free T, or calculated FAI was assessed. Data were extracted by two independent reviewers.
This included isolates *too*. Variety > single source. Sure I'd prefer a study on soybeans alone (I never stated that those papers included studies on soybeans alone).
>>36868564
>Why aren't you eating the master race diet and having both vegan and meat proteins?
Because I have a Soy allergy
Its actually way worse than most people realise, some frozen foods contain it, it can be found in asian foods, peanut butter and cereal.
I have to stick to my shopping list, if my girlfriend buys anything "because its cheaper" or "because they didn't have the one you eat" I have to check the ingredients.
On the other hand I get my meat from a butcher or straight from the abattoir (my local one has a shop where you can literally get cuts of meat that are still warm) and veggies from a farmer, its expensive but holy shit you don't realise how much of a difference there is.
>>36870422
>5f7 at 145lbs
You should have drank more milk, bruv.
>>36870285
Yeah, but what does it have to do with hating iJustine?
>>36873420
See >>36873418
Meat still wins either way.
>>36873622
Except for health. Lentils >>>>>> meat
>>36873433
How could you not know what I meant with fiber? I clearly explained exactly what I meant.
>wah why don't like my vegan spamming
>post sources so I can ignore them
You and the other vegan posters have been doing this shit daily for nine months or more now. Nobody likes it, and clearly just ignoring it didn't make you go away.
>>36873633
>except for health
>pretending like the phytotoxins in lentils are healthy
>>36873666
>phytotoxins
>>36873682
Yes? That is one of the words I wrote.
>>36873503
>11 minutes long video
Aragon did it better in less than a minute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSEVkiTCCNw
>>36874029
It's a couple hours long playlist actually
I cut red meat about a year ago because it's the most environmentally damaging, most morally questionable and most unhealthy type of meat
there's literally no benefit of eating it over poultry and seafood
>>36874266
I know, I've watched PP vids before, even though I don't plan on following an ornish-esque diet anytime soon; they are pretty good.
>>36873503
Who is this guy?
>>36868564
>Soy
There's a reason asians were tiny manlets until they accepted the west and opened their doors to us
>>36874353
Bad bait
>>36875461
How is it bait?
>>36873408
good luck finding actual fermented soy.
>>36868755
gold thing i only drink milk when i train my calves
>>36874353
There's nothing wrong with eating red meat, or anything farmed, the only potential ethical quandary is factory farming, and thankfully that doesn't exist in my region, and I know most of the farms I get my meat from because I worked at farms around here from the time I was 13 until I went to university.
Sucks for you in the USA and parts of Europe though, and wherever else factory farming is a serious problem.
A good portion of my protein comes from the personal cod fishery in the summer and autumn and the moose hunt in the fall. I get enough moose meat and enough cod for protein for most of the year. I keep my own chickens for fresh eggs. The only other major protein source I use is dairy, unfortunately we do import some dairy here, and while it doesn't actually bother me, it does mean my moral high ground isn't completely unassailable.
I also ooccasionally get pork and steak and turkeys for special occasions, outside my typical diet of moose and cod, and the occasional butchered chicken, but again, I know the farms fairly intimately.
>>36873644
>I clearly explained exactly what I meant.
If you meant that dietary fiber is somewhat not counted, it doesn't make sense.
It could have made sense if you considered an anti-nutrient, otherwise that's no "lying"
>>36873644
>You and the other vegan posters
>Nobody likes it, and clearly just ignoring it didn't make you go away.
Speaking for "everybody" is childish and autismal. You're clearly wrong.
Ignore or hide threads you don't like. You're the shitposter here.
Btw, I'm not even vegan.
>>36873666
>phytotoxins in lentils
>not soaking them, washing them off and steam/cook them
next you'll tell me that you eat unwashed, uncooked intestines of various animals
>>36877510
Sentient beings have to die for you to eat, and it's completely unnecessary. You can healthily subsist on a diet of plant foods where no sentient being has to die.
There is your ethical quandary
>>36870349
Nice sources retard, no bias
>>36870163
>/pol/shit threads in killing /fit/.
/pol/ isn't the one spaming nagger cuck threads. I can guarantee you that.
>>36870163
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/
>Hormones in Dairy Foods and Their Impact on Public Health - A Narrative Review Article
>The collected data from other researchers and our own data are indicating that the presence of steroid hormones in dairy products could be counted as an important risk factor for various cancers in humans.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26293183
>Natural estrogens in dairy products: Determination of free and conjugated forms by ultra high performance liquid chromatography with tandem mass spectrometry.
>Natural estrogens are synthesized by mammals in different amounts depending on the developmental stage and pregnancy/lactation period, and they may pass into milk, where they are mostly present as glucuronated and sulfated forms. In modern dairy practices, about 75% of milk is produced from pregnant cows
>therefore, the amount of hormones that may pass into milk could be of concern.
30 seconds in google. Limiting the results to the last year.
Note that here we're talking about animal oestrogens and steroids.
Some production processes suggest that some oestrogens are "washed out", but still.
>>36869415
False and debunked.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4500821/
>Overall our findings showed that soy milk does not improve the quality of life in postmenopausal women
yet another publication about no side effects on human hormones (besides the protective effect on prostate and on the serum test only)
>>36868901
More likely connected to hormones in beef and diary.
>>36878999 (check'd)
>diary
fuck auto-correct. dairy.
![[tg intensifies].gif](https://i.imgur.com/dcshF9l.gif "[tg intensifies].gif")
>>36869258
>See this in news
>Come to /fit/
>Oh boy, people in this thread are gonna love this
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/29/long-term-vegetarian-diet-changes-human-dna-raising-risk-of-canc/
I know I'm enjoying it, have fun causing mutations if you're planning to not go childless
>>36878986
>In addition, there is evidence suggesting that the positive effect of soy products on vasomotor symptoms (12-14), maturation of vaginal epithelium (15),
>maturation of vaginal epithelium (15),
Watch out anon your dick will invert!
>soy
>thinking protons encased in fibre are digest easily
>wasting your money on meme foods
>>36873581
everything
This thread is not meaty enough.
>>36868689
>Milk has more stuff that is beneficial for health.
What like Vitamins A, B2, B6, B12, C, D, Iron and Magnesium?
Oh, shit, my bad. That's soy milk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone#Characteristics
>>36882397
>>36882456
why is there always some faggot who just resorts to posting pictures of meat?
it doesn't even make sense like what are you even doing?
>>36878085
Sentient beings have to die for the world to go on. Sentient beings have to die for my dog to eat. Sentient beings have to die for forests to flourish (check out the documentary about how reintroduction of wolves can transform plains at risk of desertification into lush forest over the course of 30 years). Plenty of the sentient beings in question would not even exist without our intention of eating them. Sheep, cattle, pigs, chickens, none of these species exist in the wild, and none of them live in the relative comfort and safety of a farm. The life of a wild boar, for example, in nature is, as the life of man, nasty, brutish and short. Animals live in constant fear. Farm animals live a luxuriant life with companionship and care, but a finite lifespan.
Also, fish are not exactly sentient.
>>36882917
He thinks it 'triggers' vegans but hes a faggot and doesn't realize that most vegans like myself enjoy meat and are not repulsed by it in any way. Yes, it looks delicious, no, I'm not going to eat it because of the ethical problems it poses
>>36883031
I mean, in order for it to trigger vegans, he would have to assume that we don't know anybody else in the world.
I mean, holy shit. We all ate meat growing up; 99% of all of the people we know eat meat, and they do it around us.
>>36875292
He's only known by his pseudonym Plant Positive, and previously as Primitive Nutrition. He hasn't revealed any personal info about himself and he doesn't actively make content anymore.
The first thing he released was a 71-part video series thoroughly debunking the Paleo diet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egqf7k5Lzhk&list=PLCC2CA9893F2503B5
Later on he made another set of 21 videos to debunk arguments that cholesterol/saturated fat are unrelated to heart disease
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc0fRxFcLHg&list=PLv3QDzdxan_IVgksyJDGR_PO6noKU0r_1
And the set of 44 videos in this post >>36873503 exposes Gary Taubes and his books, debunks more pro-cholesterol arguments, analyzes studies used to promote low carb diets, explains how low carb/ketogenic diets are unhealthy, and explores some more Paleo diet claims
And he has another set of 22 videos where he debates and completely rips apart critics of his videos, including low carb bloggers Denise Minger and Anthony Colpo
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDBBB98ACA18EF67C
It's amazingly well put together and interesting to listen to, but unfortunately it's not very popular. If more people watched these videos, we wouldn't have to deal with so much low carb, paleo psuedoscience.
>>36868564
>eating shit used to make plastic
>>36868954
man
japs are like the most feminine asians
they might kung fu me to death but man they're gonna look cute doing it
>>36883315
cool. always liked those odd types you'd find on youtube who are ridiculously well-versed in what they're doing yet have a disproportionately small following.
youtube Kit Laughlin if you're starting to branch out into more holistic fitness. he's a great guy for flexibility and how it's not just a matter of being able to touch your toes.
incorporating some gymnastics is also great for body kinesthesia and joint strengthening. makes for convenient workouts too.
>>36877315
Underrated.
>>36877580
>Btw, I'm not even vegan.
Don't even try, it's obvious.
>>36877630
>all that work for inferior macros just so they don't make you sick
I'll stick with meat.
>>36878889
They're literally the only ones that give a shit about that, so yes it 100% is them.
>>36878956
Those don't prove your claim that milk has more estrogen than soy. That was a waste of thirty seconds breh.
>>36878085
I was a vegetarian for about 3 years, i had to quit because i was too skinny and couldnt gain muscle
>>36883315
These videos should be in the /fit/ sticky
>>36884386
But soy doesn't have estrogens, while milk does have estrogens. That was a waste of typing, breh.
>>36884352
>all that work
Washing your food?
>inferior macros
Are you retarded?
>that don't make you sick
Meat makes you sick, period.
>>36885913
>soy doesn't have estrogens
>>36886738
Exact. Milk has oestrogens, soy has not. Astonishing, isn't it?
