http://nutritionstudies.org/dr-michael-greger-how-not-to-die-talks-at-google/
TL;DR: Plant based diets are superior if you want to live longer. Many sources cited.
Thought /fit/ ?
>10 years
converting a population of 7.5 billion to a plant based diet after having consumed meat for 2.5 million years? unlikely.
>>36489374
This.
Though Ive just started watching it, and i'm impressed how he deals with net calories being controlled for...
>>36489323
We all die eventually famalam, personally I'd rather die of a heart attack at 80 than lonely at 90, but if a vegan diet works for you then do it.
>>36489323
That was a really good talk OP! More people should watch it so that they can switch to a plant-based diet. It has so many studies they couldn't say that it isn't backed up by evidence. xD "Muh protein". That protein is increasing your Insulin growth factor which stimulates cancer cell growth, whereas plant protein not only doesn't do that, but helps destroy cancer cells. Ha.
Most if not all of the sources he cited were with populations with shit diets that ate meat versus populations with better diets with vegetarians.
vegetarians are on a diet, and you are comparing it to normies who get starbucks and McDonalds.
It's really funny that meat eaters will jump through hoops to be able to justify still eating meat.
Like the person who commented earlier, "Well I'd rather die early than just eat fruits and vegetables my whole life."
>>36489323
>>36489600
Samefag, and saged.
>>36490262
I'm proud to samefag in this instance. I watched the entire talk and it was filled with lots of great information on why a whole foods plant based diet is better for you than eating meat and dairy products.
>>36490261
>It's really funny that meat eaters will jump through hoops to be able to justify still eating meat
Meat isn't homogenous cucklord, poultry has a nonsig inverse to neutral effect on total mortality.
http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=414881
http://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-11-63
Data from the adventist health study studies only concluded an extra 2.38 years for men who excluded meat, the rest like eating nuts can be done regardless whether you eat meat or not.
(source on pic: http://www.cpcsda.org/uploads/adventist-health-study-1.pdf)
Also stop samefagging it is clearly you OP.
>>36490328
If you had watched the whole talk, you would have heard how he addresses poultry. Even if you use gloves, bleach everything down, rinse the chicken/turkey and cook it at the right temperature, you are still at a high risk for getting e.coli or salmonela. And most people don't put that much preparation into making a chicken/turkey. That's all without even eating the actual meat, just handling it.
>>36490328
>http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=414881
"WHITE MEAT
When comparing the highest with the lowest quintile of white meat intake, there was an inverse association for total mortality and cancer mortality, as well as all other deaths for both men (Table 2) and women (Table 3). In contrast, there was a small increase in risk for CVD mortality in men with higher intake of white meat. There was no association between white meat consumption and death from injuries and sudden death in men or women."
From the first study you cited, men had an increase in risk for CVD with a higher intake of white meat.
>>36490421
It was a 5% increase in CVD mortality, yet there was still an inverse association with total mortality.
Let me ask you this, take a plant-based diet if you were to add in a few a chicken breasts do you honestly think all those supposed benefits get pissed down the toilet?
>>36490262
what no I am op. Anyway just to let u guys know i found some decent counterarguments that unrustled my jimmies.
Always happy to hear opposing points of view otherwise im no better than those on the reddit echochambers or tumblr hugboxes
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illness-curable-by-veganism/
>>36489323
>Popori slayer
>Not Elin lancer
Gay and gay
>>36490462
How many are we talking, a few chicken breasts a week or a few chicken breasts a month?
>>36490518
A day
>>36490376
How is that different from any other food? Fresh produce is also a major cause of food poisoning.
>>36490546
The risk for vegetables in being contaminated with salmonella is from contact with animal feces. It can't just magically develop it on its own. It's contaminated from contact with infected poultry or red meat.
>>36490525
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/08/16/fda-finally-admits-chicken-meat-contains-cancer-causing-arsenic/
>>36490328
>poultry has a nonsig inverse to neutral effect on total mortality.
Relative to red meat.
>>36490463
>i found some decent counterarguments that unrustled my jimmies.
>https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illness-curable-by-veganism/
This is a really bad critique though. (of one of his much older presentations, as well)
http://donmatesz.
blogspot.com/2013/02/harriet-halls-critique-of-gregers.html
>>36490642
>It can't just magically develop it on its own
wow
>>36489323
No thanks, meat is easier and delicious
>>36490652
>Relative to red meat.
Where does it say that?
>>36490669
Why are you saying wow? It can't. Vegetables are only contaminated with salmonella if they are in contact with infected animal feces or are in contact with someone (a worker) who transmitted it. The main source is the animals. Therefore, if you stay away from eating them, your risk is significantly lower.
but i dont wanna live longer desu
>>36490651
Sales of Roxarsone were suspended a couple of years ago.
>>36490699
The study you linked also says this, "We found a positive association for processed meat intake and cancer mortality among former/current smokers but not among never smokers. This may be because we were still not able to fully statistically adjust for residual confounding of smoking because people who eat processed meat may also smoke. An additional reason could be that in addition to being exposed to N-nitroso compounds from processed meats, smokers inhale carcinogenic chemicals. The possible reason why there was an increased risk with white meat consumption among never smokers is not readily apparent."
There was an increased risk for cancer with people who consumed white meat but had never smoked a day in their life and they couldn't determine the reason why.
>>36490699
It's a study on a population of meat eaters. Within that population, white meat was associated with lower mortality. Every statistic is relative to something else.
>>36490754
>>36489323
Okay, well, I don't want to live longer. I want to live happily.
Meat makes me happy.
>>36490642
Do animals and humans magically disappear after adopting this diet? That's an interesting psychosis.
>>36490801
That's your decision but if you change your mind, the option is always there. You know what to do.
That's a vegan burger, btw.
>>36490807
Twisting my point isn't going to strengthen yours. The plants themselves, unless they come into contact with someone/something infected, aren't going to give you salmonella or e.coli. You are much more likely to develop it if you eat meat/poultry than if you stick to eating a plant-based diet.
>>36490261
should speak to the gravity of your argument.
>>36490849
What point? You didn't make any. "Consider my utopian fantasy where animals and people don't exist" is not a point. Contact inevitably happens during pre- and post-harvest processing and handling from the farm to the grocery store.
>You are much more likely to develop it if you eat meat/poultry than if you stick to eating a plant-based diet.
>You are much more likely to develop it if you eat more fresh food than if you eat less
FTFY
>>36490878
I didn't say to eat more fresh food. Plant-based doesn't mean uncooked. I personally prefer baked or steamed veggies to raw.
I'm also not saying that contact is never going to happen between people who are contaminated with salmonella/e.coli I just said that it was LESS LIKELY. If you don't handle animals like chicken, turkey, pigs, then you are LESS LIKELY to be infected with salmonella. One slaughterhouse for chickens found that 45% of the chickens had salmonella, and that's just from one slaughterhouse.
>>36490785
It was actually CVD, a increased risk of 24% in males, but you're correct. I clearly overlooked that line. However the EPIC study still found not association with CVD and poultry; but the anon below makes a good point.
>>36490787
Fair point, I never considered that. There is clearly an advantage to going plant based at least looking at the Adventist's. Can't say I'm all to convinced a few chicken breasts in the context of a diet with plenty of veggies/nuts/legumes/etc would make much of a difference however.
>>36489323
Nigga if you think I'm watching an 80 minute long video of someone talking about plants, you have lost your fucking mind.
And I'm not trying to live forever, I'm trying to lift heavy ass weights before I die.
>>36490878
Also:
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/recalls-and-public-health-alerts/current-recalls-and-alerts
This is the current list of recalled products due to either misbranding or contamination. Notice how the MAJORITY of those are beef/pork/chicken products.
>>36490376
>you are still at a high risk for getting e.coli or salmonela.
High risk compared to what? The people who don't eat ANY poultry?
Listen, dipshit, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of statistics. If the herbivores have a .001% chance of getting e.coli or salmonela, and meat eaters have a 20 times greater chance, the meat eaters still only have a .02% chance (or 1 in FIVE THOUSAND) chance of it. But dishonest vegan turds will say that meat eaters have a "high" risk of it, leading dipshits like you to believe it's absolutely high, not a still miniscule chance that is relatively slightly higher than some more miniscule chance.
And you fall for it like an unlifting retard.
>>36490975
Point taken. HIGHER risk, but not necessarily high risk.
>>36490924
>I didn't say to eat more fresh food.
Then why did you bother responding to >>36490546 with >>36490642? How verbally impaired are you?
>Plant-based doesn't mean uncooked. I personally prefer baked or steamed veggies to raw.
>I'm also not saying that contact is never going to happen between people who are contaminated with salmonella/e.coli I just said that it was LESS LIKELY. If you don't handle animals like chicken, turkey, pigs, then you are LESS LIKELY to be infected with salmonella. One slaughterhouse for chickens found that 45% of the chickens had salmonella, and that's just from one slaughterhouse.
But if you substitute that chicken, turkey, pig with PRODUCE such as fresh garbanzo beans, green beans, spinach, broccoli sprouts your risk remains the same or goes up somewhat. This includes their cooking and preparation
http://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/attribution-image.html#foodborne-illnesses
>>36490952
Those are all processed foods. That recent Mexican cilantro outbreak isn't even listed.
>>36490989
I don't know why you would post that link. There were more illnesses from produce, but there were more DEATHS from meat and poultry. LOL. Thanks for that, bro.
>>36491009
Oh, I see now. It's the FSIS, who only inspect and handle recalls with animal products. Classic vegan shitflinging.
>>36491020
Keep moving those goalposts.
>>36489323
>Vegan
>Gains
goldface.jpg
>>36491024
That was on accident. Good call. I'll see if I can find more appropriate data.
>>36491032
That unintentionally proved my point. Yes, there were more cases of illness than I previously thought, but more deaths were attributed to meat and poultry than to produce.
>>36491048
You can't. Stop shitposting.
>>36491093
This isn't my thread. Regardless, living a vegan lifestyle is overall healthier. More than a few doctors who have done multiple studies on diets, the effect of diets, have come to this conclusion. Sorry if you don't want to part with your meat, but it's true. If you accept that you'll likely die a few years before you should, then go on eating it.
>>36491151
I take sexual pleasure in knowing chickens are killed for my gains.
Fuck you.
Fuck chickens.
Fuck your gay lifestyle.
Fuck your nogains.
I'd rather die eating delicious meat all my life at 80 than die miserable and with a shitty diet at 100.
>>36491151
>This isn't my thread. Regardless, living a vegan lifestyle is overall healthier. More than a few doctors who have done multiple studies on diets, the effect of diets, have come to this conclusion.
And 20 years ago, they came to the conclusion fat was bad. And 10 years ago, it was carbs, And 100 years ago, they told us to eat tapeworm eggs to lose weight.
Yeah, like, whatever.
>>36491198
There's lots of awesome vegan food. Everything you have, we have an equivalent for. There's vegan cheesecake, vegan ice cream, vegan burgers, vegan pizza, etc. The list goes on an on.
>>36491229
If you're a girl that's cool.
But I'd rather not go full estrogen and grow boobs, nerd.
>>36491244
I like his boobs.
>>36491257
>roiding for this.
>>36491244
but vegans have higher test
>>36491263
>implying roiding is bad.
>>36491266
Higher total, but higher SHBG.
>>36491266
Keep telling yourself that. I had a condition test this monday, I'm a huge meat eater. I have 30% more test than the average 21 year old male. And I am low estrogen.
>>36491303
As long as you don't abuse steroids, it won't be a problem.
Source: Husband used to roid.
>>36491304
Great. That's not due to eating meat though, that's largely due to genetics. I'm not saying you can't raise your testosterone by eating meat, you probably can, it's loaded with hormones. Still, the largest contributing factor for test levels is genetics so congrats on winning the genetic lottery.
>>36491317
>As long as you don't abuse steroids
>Husband used to roid
Unless it was prescribed for TRT, I'm pretty sure that's considered abusing steroids.
Also post butthole.
>>36491330
You say that but I have a thin, tall frame. My hair genetics are pretty shit too. I'm not sure about ab genetics yet, we'll see in the coming weeks once I finish my cut.
>>36491333
We have different definitions of abusing then. He used 350 mg per week distributed across 3 injections, which is well below the standard bodybuilding dose. Definition of bodybuilding dose is around 750 mg.
That's what worked well for him.
Note: these numbers are highly subjective. You have to go slow and experiment and see what values are right for you. Generally when you start running into side effects is when your dosage is getting too high.
He realizes that the standard TRT dose is 250 mg per month, but if you ask anyone who has experience with anabolic steroids, they would consider that dosage laughably low.
>>36489323
eating unprocessed plants instead of animal products is far more than just a health benefits.
Its fucking awerness of sufering of all beings its understanding that no human on earth should be hungry.It is that you dont have to lie to youre kid when he is 3 yo and loving every animal that its ok to kill .Its understanding that teaching kids to kill and consume animals basically for fun makes them insensitive to human suffering. This shit makes WARS. Its understanding that oure attitude towards vulnerable beeings it is what defines us as a spiecies.Its understanding that we could live in harmony with oure planet.Its understanding that MORE is not better.
Its understanding human hate towards another human is what makes this world look like hell not like paradise.
tfw nobody gives a shit except some fucked up vegans and monks .0.5% And even in the vegan comunity white knights actually think that by HATING human lack of awerness you can FORCE compassion.
luv you brahs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRHqs8SffDo
>>36490462
I'd say that if it were lean enough, obtained from a reliable source to minimize bioaccumulative contaminants, and cooked properly (or eaten raw as sashimi) to minimize AGE and ALE formation, some would be harmless/maybe even beneficial for CVD risk. The high quality protein can help put on lean mass, which will increases cholesterol utilization and insulin sensitivity. Akt/mTOR activation will increase LDL clearance in the liver and vasodilation/barrier integrity in the arteries. Highly bioavailable NAD+ and some bioactive peptides like anserine might be health-promoting too. In experimental models addition of some animal protein to the diet positively affects gut microbial diversity, which may help as well so long as adequate and diverse plant fiber is also consumed.
One problem I can think of is the methionine content, via its conversion to S-adenosylhomocysteine and homocysteine within endothelial cells. This could be fixable with adequate intake of antioxidants + folate + betaine + glycine/gelatin. But I would still be cautious going over ~1-2g/d -- http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/6/1660S.full and http://www.pnas.org/content/100/25/15089.full -- basically the limit imposed by the DASH diet.
On the other hand it wouldn't be good for general life extension as a large part of the benefits of these plant-based diets are probably derived from low level protein restriction.
>>36489323
i'd rather be a sikk cunt and die in my 80s than a weedy faggot with jaundice and die in my 90s
>>36491069
No, it did not. Try harder. We were talking about food poisoning in toto, never fatal specifically. Goalpost moving is an automatic loss for you. Read the thread again and then go see a neurologist. Evidently in addition to verbal reasoning your short term memory is also defective.
>>36492676
>On the other hand it wouldn't be good for general life extension as a large part of the benefits of these plant-based diets are probably derived from low level protein restriction
As interesting as the animal models of longevity are. Quantity of life isn't synonymous with quality, for me eating chicken > that not; I bet you cannot guess the color of my skin.
The homocysteine issue is relative to b12, IIRC, and you're talking a One percent reduction in FMD.
As I said Adventist clearly have an advantage, but restriction of meat only confers an additional 2-3 years of life.
>>36493933
A 6% increase in risk of dying from eating meat/poultry. That's all I see.
OF COURSE I WANT TO LIVE LONGER MY QUALITY OF LIFE IS AMAZING WHAT WITH THE CONSTANT DEATH OF LOVED ONES AND FUCKING POLICE TAKING MY SHIT AWAY AND PROBABLY DELETING EVERYTHING
>>36494700
Don't think B12 is enough to protect against the postprandial effects of methionine IMO, as it's seen even when people are given chicken which is (presumably) a source
http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/19/12/2922.long
Folate on the other hand has a high turnover for BH4 production and is much more limiting
http://www.clinsci.org/content/96/3/235.full-text.pdf
Might not seem like much but there's still a mild endothelial activation, heightened permeability to lipoproteins, and in animal models accelerated atherosclerosis. On the scale of human lifespan things add up after 40+ years of daily exposure. That said, it shouldn't be that hard to eat chicken with spinach or beets.
>>36496481
Risk to benefit ratio famalam.
To me eating lean poultry has more in the way of benefits, i.e. easy of hitting macros, taste, satiety, etc than the cumulative increased risk of a lifetime of mild endothelial dysfunction.
Although, I appreciate you giving both sides of the coin (i.e. eating spinach with my chicken titties).
Personally I would like for some research into a Plant-based diet vs a plant-based diet + lean meat in relatively lean, active people. But given the current state of the western population you would be hard pressed to find someone who eats the bare minimum amount of vegetables.
Take care friend.
