Bent over rows -- Whats the best approach, pull to the waist or to the chest, also how far do you bend forward, 90 degrees or just slightly ?
>>36244646
Pull with normal scapular motion until your scapulae stop retracting.
Personally, I use slightly wider than OHP grip, keep elbows at roughly 45deg to body, and back parallel to the floor.
![arnold-schwarzenegger_1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4InL3tU.jpg "arnold-schwarzenegger_1[1].jpg")
>>36244646
I do it like Arnold did
Congrats bro you fell for the SS meme. start doing rows with Dumbbells if you ever actually wanna make it
>>36244646
Pull it with bench width
Pull into your belly
>>36245851
This. Why the Fuck would you let your torso limit your ROM when using a bar?
>>36245851
What happens when you hit the DB limit on rows (did 20 reps @40kg)
>>36245851
literally this. with a barbell i can only row 2pl8s with good form. with a dumbell i can row 200lbs.
>>36244646
Like pic.
>>36244646
bent over rows for dummies:
feet shoulder width apart
knees bent
bend at the hips, ass pointing out and maintain a straight back with your head in a neutral position (not looking at yourself in the mirror as this puts more pressure on your spine)
hands can be pronated (targets the back more) or supinated (targets the biceps more), make sure your hands are shoulder width apart
To perform a repetition pull your elbows back until the bar is against the underside of your rib cage, squeeze at the top of the movement for a second then lower the weight
The guy in the picture has it pretty much right, if you ignore that his head is not neutral and his feet are really close together, and that he needs a belt to row baby weights.
>>36245851
>>36245923
because bent over row is considered a compound movement, if you wanna not do it you could argue just do dumbell press instead of bench.
>>36246069
I don't think you know what "compund" lift means
>>36245851
>>36245923
Personal trainer here, its safer for most people to learn rows with BBs because they end up fucking up in numerous ways, twisting their bodies to perform reps and arching their lower back.
While I agree that DBs are way better for ROM, when advising dipshits over the internet who have no frame of reference for correct form and can only repeat what they read online but not practise it, you have to advise them on the safer alternative, which in this case would be using a BB, or in extreme cases a machine (but many fuck up using machines).
tl:dr yes BBs are better but most gym rats don't know how to perform exercises themselves or advise correct form.
>>36246098
>Personal trainer here
This means literally nothing.
I'm also willing to bet you don't actually know what proper technique is for rows.
>>36246116
>I'm also willing to bet you don't actually know what proper technique is for rows.
I contributed by posting >>36246040
>>36246142
That just confirms what I thought.
I've seen worse advice though.
Why the fuck would you do an exercise that does a shitty job at both lat extension (compare ROM to pullup/chinup) and scapular retraction (just do a lighter weight high-row if you want to focus on mid traps/rhomboids)
rows suck
>>36244646
Read ss
Pendlay Rows are superior.
>>36246212
Rows don't do a shitty job at scapular retraction at all.
They're not bad for the lats either (even though pullup/chinups are indeed better).
Scapular retraction is an overrated meme btw, scapular stability is much more important.
>>36244646
The best approach is to do powercleans and chinups. Fuck rows.
>>36246227
/thread
>>36246116
Also
>This means literally nothing.
If you think any dipshit can just "become a personal trainer" then you are an idiot.
I have under my belt:
>Anatomy and Physiology qualifications
>Fitness instructor
>Personal trainer
>GP referral (qualifying me to have doctors refer people to me for exercise and the like)
>Training neo and post natal clients (falls under GP referral)
>Training "special populations" (falls under GP referral)
And that's not counting all of the bullshit health and safety modules you have to do, the insurance I have to get and the register I have to be on to have my job, I don't know what the requirements are in the US, but in the UK you have to be qualified beyond having an instagram account or a youtube channel, I am qualified enough for people with medical degrees to comfortably refer clients to me.
Believe it or not, being jacked, being on /fit/, being on /r/bodybuilding or reading a couple of books doesn't qualify you to advise people on form, and teaching people over a written medium is even worse because most don't know the specifics themselves or know if they are doing it right.
How many people do you see doing front delt raises when they do DB curls?
How many people do you see lock out their joints when lifting?
How many people do you see benching with the bar above their neck?
How many people do you see trying to do 1/3rd ROM pull ups which might as well be poor quality curls because they can't use their lats?
I'd dare to say that you have seen this sort of thing in most gyms, if not then you probably don't know what proper form is. And how did these people learn? by watching someone else, reading an article online or watching a youtube video of someone doing kipping pull ups.
>>36246173
I don't suppose you could point out what I missed then?
>>36246261
Rip pls go
>>36246288
DTFP
>>dumbbell bench isn't a compound
>>>>>>>>but barbell bench is
Are krock rows better?
>>36245957
>20 regs at ~90lbs
>the limit
Nigga are you stupid?
>>36246283
>If you think any dipshit can just "become a personal trainer" then you are an idiot.
Except this is very true.
Pretty much any dipshit can become a personal trainer.
You don't need fitness knowledge, you just need good people skills.
Fitness instructors are generally even worse.
>How many people do you see lock out their joints when lifting?
This confirms you're a good-for-nothing personal "trainer".
Things you got wrong in your other post:
*head position doesn't matter much because the cervical spine isn't loaded
*pronation doesn't target the back more, it just shifts the focus on the muscles in the arms
*safe range of motion isn't defined by just pulling the bar back until it hits the rib cage. it depends on anatomy and mobility of the lifter. the scapulae should move naturally and have enough stability and the shoulder capsule should not be stretched.
*squeezing at the top isn't necessary and can actually promote unnatural scapular movement.
You're probably a fucking retarded faggot, but if you actually want to learn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mve_pIrXGyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2shm_Jz0WQ
>>36246069
you SHOULD do dumbbell press instead of bb press unless you're a powerlifter who wants to practice bb press.
>>36246069
Compound movement != barbell
>>36246441
Any reason for that?
>inb4 muh stabilizers
>>36244646
according to alan thrall, you're suppsed to be a 90 degree angle and basically slam the fucking weight back into the ground, where every where else tells me that the 120 degree angle is best. i understand that the 90 degree angle is better for lifting a lot, but it's an unstable lift if it's heavy. 120 degree i feel like develops stability and control and doesn't have you slamming shit into the ground. best for home gyms.
>>36246493
alan thrall is a meme
>>36246069
>DB row is not a compound movement
>DB bench is not a compound movement
God, I fucking hate newbies like you, who just started reading SS and think they know all about lifting
>>36246460
DB bench press is superior for chest development
>>36245851
>not doing both
>>36246536
No, it's not.
>>36246510
a lot of his shit is good advice, but there are some things i really do disagree with, such as the whole row situation.
>>36245976
> 2pl8 is 225lbs
>>36246493
>thrall
>listening to a fedora neckbeard
>>36246561
>>36246510
i like how this board disses thrall and now takes all their advice from a mentally ill twink faggot
>>36246553
No, a lot of his shit is regurgitated beginner "advice".
He doesn't have any real knowledge.
And he's piss-poor weak for the number of years he's trained.
>>36245976
uh what
you can row less with dumbbells, whats your point?
and no, you def aren't rowing 200 lb dumbbells in each hand
>>36246554 (You)
>>36246548
I don't understand why you non-lifters are here. Even the fattest powerlifters will admit that for bodybuilding purposes DB bench is superior to BB bench.
>>36246567
Kek this
>>36244646
bend WAY THE FUCK over
yank it from the ground hard up to your chest
let it drop back down and rest on the ground
repeat
pendlay rows or bust desu
>>36246567
trappy-chan is even worse than alan thrall.
>>36246567
>mentally ill twink faggot
who?
>>36246536
>>36246548
It is better. Unless you don't do the full rom.
>>36246040
>The guy in the picture has it pretty much right
Er...
Feet close together.
Head looking directly ahead, not neutral
Pulling to lower stomach not ribs.
Wut.
>>36246592
also, the cheatier the better
cheaty pendlay rows or bust
>>36244646
it looks like he's perking out his cuck ass to be some guys gf
>>36246548
>(you)
>>36246600
Trappy "pls pay attention to me and my stupid ass anime pictures" chan
>>36246617
So deadlifts are the best row?
>>36246580
>>36246603
The differences are so small it's not even worth argueing about which one is better.
See: https://www.t-nation.com/training/inside-the-muscles-best-chest-and-triceps-exercises
Pick one or do both, it doesn't really matter.
>>36246625 (You)
>>36246638
Now you've got it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTzijfucIa4
>>36246638
ok you caught me
perhaps there's a limit to the cheatiness you should use
![Rudys-Look-Of-Digust-Reaction-Gif-On-Misfits-_408x408[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/pn3b05t.jpg "Rudys-Look-Of-Digust-Reaction-Gif-On-Misfits-_408x408[1].jpg")
>>36246641
>by Bret Contreras
>>36246680
doesn't invalidate the results
>>36246641
>the differences are so small
Unless you don't go below the chest, sure. But if you do, it performs similar to chest flies. It stretches the pecs and increases time under tension for the pec. Once the elbows reach 90 degrees, the triceps kick in and the chest doesn't do as much afterwards
>>36246726
There is no basis in hypertrophy for TuT.
Regular bench presses stretch the pecs fine too, unless your anatomy is such that when the bar hits your chest you still have a lot of range of motion left.
This doesn't apply to most people though.
Chest flies mainly stretch the coracobrachialis, not the pecs.
>>36246770
>Regular bench presses stretch the pecs fine too
But dumbbell stretches it better if you do the full ROM
>>36246553
His row thing is just mirroring pendlays advice though pendlay emphasised a little more control
>>36246823
The difference isn't big enough to matter.
And you're more limited by stabilization on DB benching than on BB benching.
Anyway, do whatever you want, it doesn't matter.
>>36246401
>being this mad
lmfao at your life kid
>>36246337
They're the heaviest ones at my gym you fucking retard son of a hoe
Suck my fat black dick you dyel bitch I'll fuck you and all of the females you know off and I'll ejaculate of your dad's bald head
>>36246283
kek
Not him but personal trainers are barely above line cooks in terms of intelligence
