What makes SS better? I would think having more sets would be more beneficial...
>>36012711
Yeah more is better, why don't you do 10×10 and add some isos?
>>36012711
SS is awful. Train arms for fucks sake.
Low volume is stupid.
Literally on dyel newfags would disagree
im also curious as to what is considered better
SL is shit. Why have 5x5? It's too much. Have to use a low weight or you can't complete the last 2 reps.
The last couple sets get difficult. You can progress and use heavier weight easier at 3x5. Greyskull is better than both though if you're trying to look good :^)
>>36012711
do ICF
It's SL but with accessories so you don't look like a t-rex at the end. It's the one thing that blaha did right
>>36012739
SS is 5 reps too, champ. it's 3x5
"SL is bad" is a meme
SL turns to 3x5 after a deload
the ONLY differences are:
SS has power cleans
SL has pendlay rows and more robust accessories
end of the day they're all a basic routine to train your nervous system for muscle fiber recruitment, not legitimate strength training
>>36012711
SS allows for better Long term progression. Don't listen to the Trex memers, the program will get you strong fast. If you're looking for a novice bodybuilding program look up ICF 5x5.
OP here, currently doing IFC
>>36012711
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program
- SL has you start with babyweights. It will take you forever to actually start getting stronger. SS, on the other hand, tests you on the first workout and let's you kickstart progression
- SL has you add 2.5kg on every workout. This will make progression incredibly slow on the beginning, and incredibly hard after a month or two. SS, on the other hand, has you add as much as 8kg to your deadlift on the first few workouts, and it eventually lowers progression on certain lifts like the ohp and the bench to 1kg per workout. This means you will not get stuck on the 50kg-ohp-deload-loop everyone who does SL gets stuck on
- SL was "written" (copy pasted in a dumb manner and without any thought behind it) by a marketing team with 0 coaching experience, and is targeted towards couch potatoes. SS was written by an ex-professional athlete and a coach with over 3 decades of experience
- SL only has you work your floor pull 1.5 times per week. SS has you work floor pulls 3 times per week, 1.5 deadlifts (3x at the start) and 1.5 power cleans. This means you will get stronger on your deadlift doing SS, since you will be training it a lot more
- SL has you do barbell rows, SS has chinups. Chinups are a better back-builder as the range of motion for the lats is way longer. Not only that, but chinups will give you good biceps development, while rows won't. Only reason you should do rows instead of chinups as a beginner, is in case you can't do bodyweight chinups and the gym doesn't have an assistance machine
- It's way easier to finish 3x5 sets with perfect reps than 5x5 sets with perfect reps. Not only that, but doing 5x5 will exhaust you before the next lift
- SL tells you to deload too much. SS, on the other hand, only tells you to deload if it's 100% necessary
- SS trains both strength and power, and it trains your traps a lot more with the power cleans
Only reason SL is a popular meme is because of marketing efforts. They launched a good mobile app when the market was still untapped, and that made it really popular among normies.
Not only that, but they paid a bunch of personalities of the fitness industry to shill for their program.
Rip, on the other hand, was pretty retarded when it comes to marketing and didn't put much effort into it, and only released a mobile app a few months ago, years too late. This means the only people doing SS were people who were lucky enough to join a gym with a SS coach, or did research and visited lifting forums. Marketing fail 101.
Over the years, a bunch of novices "graduated" from SL with slow progression, but they got ok-tier results and now recommend it all the time as if it's "as good as SS".
Thus, SL became a huge meme even though it's an awful program (the routine is ok, the program is bad).
You don't need to read the full SS book (even though it's great). Watch the videos where Rip teaches how to perform the lifts (https://www.youtube.com/user/artofmanliness/search?query=rippetoe) and read the FAQ page http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program and you will be completely fine.
After two-three weeks or so, start doing your power cleans. It's very easy to learn and incredibly valuable for deadlift progression.
>>36012711
Check this album for more informational pics http://imgur.com/a/Uriwb
>>36012857
>>36012869
Yeah yeah ya just parroting what ya professors say, but ya forgot about Vickers.
>>36012711
Greyskull > SS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SL
>>36012776
>end of the day they're all a basic routine to train your nervous system for muscle fiber recruitment, not legitimate strength training
all of my wat. what is suppose to be legitimate strength training then?
>>36012711
>>36012857
>>36012869
Do you have a bot that posts this yet trappy? It must get annoying re-posting for the sticky non-readers.
Greyskull LP is a bit better than Reg Parks 5x5 which is a bit better than SS; and they all are way better than SL, which is worse bc of volume and progression scheme (mainly).
>>36012711
I recommend SS with maybe some arm accessories. You can always do 5x5 for SS if you want. I mostly recommend it because it has power cleans and chin ups as opposed to rows and I hate rows.
>>36012899
>Inb4 curl supersets
>>36012956
which accessories
>>36012723
It isn't a bodybuilding program for fucks sake
>>36012899
periodization, specificity and progressive overload with a volume ceiling determined by muscle failure and not a lack of muscle recruitment
compare Texas Method and 5/3/1 to a basic 3x5 routine. And those are basically novice powerlifting routines
>>36012982
SS is a basic strength program not a powerlifting program
>>36012776
That guy never said SS wasn't 5 reps, he just said that 5x5 is too much, implying that 3x5 isn't. Learn to read
>>36012711
how did Rip's biceps get so big. The hypocrit
>>36013013
Juice and hgh do wonders, you still need to workout thought.
>>36013011
>or you can't complete the last 2 reps
>>36012993
so?
>>36013031
if the goal of a program is basic strength and not powerlifting, it should include other areas of basic strength, not just powerlifting
So I should incorporate arm exercises to avoid future imbalances?
>>36012907
I actually have the text saved in a notepad nowadays haha
But I used to retype all of that everytime, it was pretty annoying.
>>36013040
Like the press and the clean?
>>36012983
You heard it here boys. Hop straight to Texas Method or 5/3/1. Better get a program with periodization for that baby weight you're lifting. (Nevermind that muscular failure can be used as a volume ceiling for accessories ) SS isn't a real strength program!
>>36012857
>>36012869
Reading this combo of posts convinced me more than ever that I made the right choice with SL over SS. Half of Trappy's arguments which are intended to show how SS is better read to me in the exact opposite way that was intended since the SL option seems to actual target *beginners* which is supposedly the point of both programs.
One example is that I can do barbell rows, but cannot do chinups or pullups yet. I'm sure many other novices are in the same boat making barbell rows a far more obvious choice for what claims to be a beginner program.
The second example is bragging that SS has power cleans. Perhaps I'm missing something but power cleans (or any Olympic weightlifting maneuvers, for that matter) don't strike me as particularly novice friendly.
Third example is that SL starts light because beginners need that lightweight to learn form first. Not to mention, I was genuinely suprised on my first SL workout how heavy 45 lbs can be when you haven't lifted weights at all before.
>>36012723
The starting strength program makes an assumption that you're going to work arms anyway without being told to.That's why rip explained the barbell curl in the auxiliary exercises section. Chin ups are highly recommended because you can work your upper back and biceps while getting strong in stabilizing your core muscles.
SS sucks if you follow pic related while reading the book and it's programming options. Starting strength is a shitty bodybuilding/powerlifting program but a pretty good general strength program for folks who don't want to cycle a round back 155lb deadlift in running shoes.
My point is don't expect to become ssj2 from Roshi/King Kai's training but it's good to get your kamehameha and sprit bomb down before getting there.
>>36013052
like upper back, traps, rear delts, biceps, triceps
I mean OHP includes the last 4 but only as a secondary target or stabilizers
power clean covers a lot of bases but it's not the same as isolations
>>36013028
It was clearly supposed to be sets, come on. It's a valid criticism; if you use enough weight to make the first three sets challenging, you won't be able to complete the fifth set and maybe even fail on the fourth set.
>>36013127
>upper back, traps
OHP, deadlift, clean
>upper back, rear delts, biceps, traps
Chinups
>triceps
OHP bench
>>36013127
Why should beginners be worrying about isolating every muscle?
>>36013092
nice meme post tho
SS is explicitly not a powerlifting program
and TM and 5/3/1 are "novice powerlifting programs" i.e. something you do once you've trained your CNS
>>36013170
>TM and 5/3/1 are "novice powerlifting programs"
>>36013158
they shouldn't but point is there's relatively little training for the muscle groups that most young men will care about
SS transitions well into powerlifting and to an extent oly lifting, but most guys are in the gym to look good for women and that's what they're going to be lifting for years after their novice routine.
May as well recommend a routine that at least caters to that mindset, even if it's looked down on compared to powerlifting and oly lifting
>>36013178
>competition powerlifters don't have programming that's an order of magnitude more complex than TM or 5/3/1
>>36013257
>what is intermediate
>>36013292
TM and 5/3/1 are intermediate weightlifting routines but novice powerlifting routines
So where I should start if I want to be a Strongman?
>>36013257
No, if your a fucking novice why would you try to complicate the program so much? Just do any fucking LP program since you can probably add 5-10 lbs on every lift everytime you hit the gym.
Do TM once you exhausted linear gains and need a more advanced approach.
Are you fucking retarded?
>>36013350
why would someone who is lifting to look good on the beach (90% of /fit/) do SS and TM?
This is /fit/s retard disconnect. The board idolizes strength and powerlifting routines but cares about aesthetics
which is why I'm saying most of the time /fit/ should be recommending SL because it's still 5x5 (and then 3x5) to train muscle fiber recruitment but it has accessories to get the muscle memory and strength progress started on the lifts the guys wanna do in the first place
>>36013319
if you want to be a strongman then do SS and move on to 5/3/1 or TM, but include strongman lifts in your accessories
>>36013477
In this moment I'm doing SL but with more volume (10x5), I have been snatching and log pressing as my accessories.
>>36013503
Damn son 10x5? Are you seeing any progress?
I'd probably recommend working at 3x5. You're kind of foregoing the point of a novice routine if you're not learning to really push your muscles hard
>>36013560
Just testing m8, after 5 months of proper SL I decide to do what I'm doing now (less about 75% of previous weight) and the main result that I have see Is improvement in form and better endurance.
>>36013244
people want to feel important... some people cure cancer, some people cancer-infect Polynesian discussion forums.
>>36013609
ah yeah that makes sense
I was gonna say it'd definitely improve form. I actually did 3x10 workouts for about a month after I finished SL so I could get better form
keep on bro, but don't be afraid to change it up when you stall. it'll help but it'll only take you so far
>>36012776
Holy fuck what am I reading
3x5 means 3 reps for 5 sets
Fuck I can't take this place anymore
>>36013687
nxm means n sets of m reps
saged because you're either a retard or trolling
>>36013687
That would make sense and I used to write my lifts "rep x set" when I first started but quickly realized that every single program is written "set x rep" and it is the standard so I got used to it. I'll always think it's silly but there's no use complaining.
>>36013687
>thinks SS is five sets of triples on every lift but dead lift
> thinks SS is five singles for deadlift
>>36013771
It's because when reading you say "3 sets of 5 reps" not "5 reps for 3 sets" or something.
I'm not a native speaker, but that just seems more natural to me.
>>36013110
Stronglifts is simple, and if you start out with just the bar you will likely not miss reps for a long time.
In my opinion this is a problem. The reason you should miss reps early on is because you do not understand how to correctly control your body to efficiently get the lift. Doing challenging weights, relative to your strength, will force you to make corrections so that you can become proficient at the main lifts. That is how you are likely to reach the upper limit of your noob gains; good diet and proper adaptation.
>>36013110
Well, you're a couch potato so you're pretty much the target of the SL program.
>>36013456
Nobody is talking about beach bodies you fucking idiot, we are talking about if SS or SL is more efficient
Fuck off with your strawman
Shit I'm a newbie that was going to start SL :( Is it that bad? I want to lift mainly for pure strength. Guess I'll do REG PARKS?
>>36013814
I used to think of it as, "I lifted it 5 times and did that 3 times." So I always imagined it would be reps x sets also befor I understood programming when I still thought excercise meant doing as many push-ups and sit-ups as you could it made sense to do a certain number of reps as many times as you could so you would write down the number of reps and then append the number of sets when you were done and knew how many you did.
But you are right you would say 3 sets of 5 in English and real programs don't have an uncertain number of sets so in the end for communication it is superior. Then again I come from Canada where we write 14 February 16 and say "February 14th 2016"
>>36013110
I will throw my 2 cents in here and say a few things. Chinups/Pullup are both accessory exercises in both program. SL doesn't include them its only suggested that you can add chinups/dips to the end of workouts A and B. This is very similar to how SS includes them. Its mentioned after you have focused on the main lifts and have the movements down you can add them, typically around week 3-4.
-You are correct in saying that power cleans aren't novice friendly. Its one of the reasons the program suggests initially (in the 3rd edition, maybe 2nd can't remember) that you do deadlifts (Workout A & B) for the first 2-4 weeks until your deadlift is well ahead of your squat and you are comfortable with the rest of the movements then sub in power cleans for one of the deadlift days.
Power Cleans > Rows for their purpose. The purpose of power cleans is to build upon the foundation that supports getting the squat and deadlift higher in strength. The powerclean targets the glutes,quads, spinal erector, core, traps (upper/middle) and forearms. The pendlay row targets the entire back (including spinal erector), core, biceps, middle trap (but not upper) and forearms.
The Deadlift & Squat basically utilize the same exact muscle groups as the Power Clean. That is why its included in SS. If you want to criticize the program for saying it focuses to much on the lower body and not enough on the upper body, I would agree. But SL really isn't all that much better.
>>36013962
Also it used to make sense in the middle of a workout to think I just finished rep 5 of my 2nd set rather than I'm on set 2 and just finished my 5th rep
The two reasons I like SL over SS is that I find SS overly complicated for little benefit, and power cleans aren't by anyone's standards a beginner exercise. Another criticism I have of SS is that it wants estimate how good your lifts are in the beginning, before you even know how to do said lifts with good form. Nothing wrong with starting from the bar, it'll get heavy enough in just 6-8 weeks really with SL.
One thing I would change to SL is change the increments on OHP and bench from 2.5kg to 1kg after you reach 30kg and 60kg respectively (or earlier/later, but do it when you notice the exercise isn't that easy anymore).
>>36013952
SL isn't bad, it's just that people like Rippetoe over the guy from SL. The guy just copied SS, threw away the memes and retarded stuff and now people say SS is better because Rip did the real research. The sticky also says both are equally good.
>>36013968
While you might agree that SL is better because you "start light" that can be very boring for people who don't find a 45 lb squat challenging. That doesn't mean a first time lifter wont' get DOMs from the bar but the reality is, the program starts off better simply because it takes in to account individual differences in strength.
Personally, I find the SL progress to be to slow and take 6-8 weeks to be a challenge for a moderately strong person who hasn't lifted.
The reality is if you start with a slightly more challenging weight you will be less inclined to want to add a million accessory exercises to the program. But if your lifitng the bar and you finish a "session" and don't feel like your challenging yourself your going to come post can i add "<insert ICF program here>"
Finally, my last point on the volume is pretty simple. If your doing warmup sets you are typically lifting 7-8 sets (counting your working sets) everytime you do a SS workout. With stronglifts if your doing warmups your lifting 9-10 sets per lift per session. Yes, warmup sets aren't going to wipe you out but they do provide some muscle stimulation.
When it comes to volume, the more sets you do the more you holdback so you can finish all your reps on your last set. The counter to that is 5x5 becomes 3x5 eventually, well great, but lets look at an example.
Let's say you are hitting your first lol2plate squat with both programs. In SS you hit your 3x5. Workout done, now you lift 240 next workout. In SL you hit 3x5, but then you do 4 reps on 4th set, 3 reps on 5th set. So your next workout you are doing 235 again. The SS lifter hits 240 does 3x5 and will do 245 next workout. The SL lifter hits 4x5 at 235 but only gets 4 reps on his 5th set. Okay time for a deload so he now goes down to 215 and works back up 235 over the next 5 workouts (or basically 1.5 weeks roughly).
My point is that SS provides plenty of volume when the weights are heavy. SS also starts heavier.
>>36013968
>>36014111
>BTW same fag
The only other point that I wanted to make. Is I will say Rip's "GOMAD" is fucking dumb. But GOMAD isn't SS. It may be talked about in the book but its not SS. Its designed for all the skinny fags who eat like 1500 calories a day and complaint they can't get big. If your eating at a calorie surplus and doing GOMADs you will get fat. No two fucking ways around it.
>>36012776
SL warms up to 5 rep max.
SS is 5x5 (2+ warm up sets) to 3x5 max
SS assumes arm work
SS is love
SS is life
Rip is actually strong
Strong lifts guy can't even bench 2 plates.
SS got me to a 250 bench without trying
>>36014208
>It’s been 15 years now since I started lifting weights. I’ve Squatted 190kg, benched 115kg and Deadlifted 225kg. I’ve lifted this weighing 75kg, using a belt and chalk. I’ve lifted this without ever using drugs.
Read more:http://stronglifts.com/about/
Sure, he may not be as strong as Rip in his prime but he's a lot more relatable. Mehdi is a swell guy.
>>36013113
>tfw he's trying to "deadlift" with the bar behind his right leg
>>36014272
>Not the guy you replied to but...
Mehdi seems like a cool guy. He seems like the kind of guy that you could be gym bros with. Personality wise I would agree he seems way more chill then Rip and his "If you aren't doing it my way you aren't doing the program" attitude.
But let's also be real a moment. Mehdi simply hopped on the "let me sell you a plan" plan before anyone else did. He is the earlier equivalent of every fitness youtube channel there is. Even the SL book reads like it by bring up bodybuilders of the past and talking about all kinds of irrelevant shit.
SS is a program by someone that was a coach and worked with other coaches for years. That doesn't mean I think there is anything wrong with medhi or stronglifts for that matter. And as I said, he seems way more chill, a total gym bro.
But the reality is simple, if I want lifting advice, I'm going to go to a coach and ask. I am going to avoid following the advice of every gymbro.
But simply, that's my opinion on the two guys.
>>36014272
>tfw rip outsquats mehdi even though he's almost 60
https://vimeo.com/11913431
>>36014357
The one guy you would expect to go below parallel but there is the profet of squats doing 1/2 ROM
Trappy, what ab exercises do you recommend to someone doing SS with accessories?
>>36014434
He is going to parallel dude, plus he has fucked up old-man knees.
>>36014444
Hanging Leg Raises are the classic choice, and easy to load with weights.
Crunches (cable, weighted, incline, etc) are good too.
Dragonflags are great but require a lot of technique.
Planks are great for endurance.
Vacuums for the transverse abs.
>>36012711
Power cleans
That is all
>>36014434
>1/2 ROM
If you bothered to watch the video he hits parallel
>>36014506
>>36014444
>No mention of the ultimate ab workout - the ab-wheel roll out.
>>36014841
A2G is 1ROM, m8.
>>36014859
I always thought that your good as long as you hit parallel, although I prefer to go slightly lower.
I still think riptits ROM was acceptable however.
>>36014903
For his age and injuries, it is.
>>36012711
>2016
>every day
>every hour
>fucking "SS-shit vs other-5x5-shit" thread
ENUF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>36012711
both are meme routines. Just do whatever you want with a high rep count you want
>>36014357
bro squat. Where the ass to grass? Where the drop through, where the natural spring ass out and push?
I use the SL app to calculate lifts, has progression graphs and timer, I add whatever accessories I like. You don't have to progress at the rate it suggests. Useful tool IMHO
>>36013110
This post was mine from last night and I was pleasantly surprised to wake up this morning to find genuinely useful replies to it. This may be the most informative thread I've read on /fit/ since I started visiting this sub-board.
> image.jpg
>>36013228
>SS transitions into oly lifting
I'm new to the whole lifting stuff. Power cleans seem to hard for me to do so i don't really like SS.
SL is easier for me to do because i know i can do those without looking like a retard at the gym.
Is SL good enough for a semi beginner (tall skelly type of body) whose ultimate goal is aesthetics?
>>36016843
One option for you if you plan to go more of an aesthetics route could be ICF 5x5 which seems to be basically SL 5x5 with some extra isolation exercises tacked on.
>>36016858
Let me explain: I would really like to get to a point where most of my workout is bodyweight exercises, like pullups/chinups, pushups and maybe squats for the lower body. I just prefer the body that kind of workout produces.
But I realize I first have to build strength since I cant even lift myself on a bar.
Do you have that ICF program handy/can you explain it ?
>>36014859
For high-bar sure, not for low-bar which is the style both Rippetoe and Medhi practice.
>>36016878
ICF 5x5: https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout
Before I recently switched to SL5x5, I was doing bodyweight myself, I just caught the lifting bug and had to try it. The bodyweight program I was using was You Are Your Own Gym by Mark Lauren. Even the beginner exercises were kicking my ass to be honest, which wasn't a surprise since I'm out of shape, but it was a hell of a workout and each time was less taxing than the last so I was getting into the rhythm of it. I may still add it back as off-day cardio or something once a week, but I want to at least get through my beginner gains with SL5x5 before getting distracted again and affecting my progression by adding anything back in (except for some mild cardio once I get a spin bike).
>>36012711
damn, rippetoe looks rly juicy in this pic
anyone know how much weight was he pulling?
>>36016904
thanks, I might do something in-between them.
I'm gonna do assisted pullups instead of bent over row, because I literally cant stay with my back horizontal and legs close to straight, my calfs and hams are so fucking tight it's ridiculous. I should start stretching.
also I might skip the hyperextensions since my lower back is a mess and I'm trying to fix my anterior pelvic tilt, and I dont think making my lumbars even tighter would help.
aaand I'll do an assortment of abs exercises instead of cable crunches because I would look like an idiot doing them
>>36013013
>>36012711
That is not rip.
Rip has even said it himself.
Rip has never really been a fan of curls, which is kinda sad.
>>36014310
He's about to crush his nuts.
>>36017375
If you compete, you aim to be as good as you can. You don't care about looking good as much as you care about performance. There's really no reason for a powerlifter to add "too much" mass to his biceps.
>>36014506
What about ab wheeling?
>>36017397
Of course. I have a PL brother who doesn't do biceps work, but I personally think it's a shame to not throw in an extra 3mins of biceps work every now and then. Plus there are some benefits from incline curls, if I remember correctly, something to do with helping prevent a biceps tear.
>>36013113
Is this P90X3? He looks like Tony Horton. Mirin' split deadlift.
>>36012711
Rippetoe: Outdated Lifting Broscience; Old and Fat; Doesn't really know shit aside from old wive's tales; not even aesthetic; his routines turn muscle into fat; no mention of any arm or back work in his routines; no progression
Mehdi: Fitness Expert; Been in the game for years; well-rounded physique; erudite knowledge of lifting and technique; scientist approved.
>>36012722
Why stop there do 100x100 op
>>36012723
>rows and presses dont train arms
People doing plane SS with nothing added are fuccbois tho Yeah, with the ultimate exception of those who start with sub bar weight, these people need to get their base up
>>36014310
kek
>>36014434
>>36014506
>>36014903
>>36014956
This was the last rep.
>>36013113
>summarizing a 600 pages book about strength training into a 587x356 drawing for babbies
I hope that whoever made that ends up dead or in a wheelchair
>>36017441
Some people just reach a point where they don't give a fuck about biceps. You go to the gym to hit a heavy session of squat, bench and diddly, after that you just want to get home.
For example, i already have a decent biceps, and i probably could grow them 1-2cm more in a year if i wanted to do them - but i don't, and i don't need to. They get more than enough from rows and chin ups for me.
>>36012869
How can I work on my rack for cleans? No matter what I try I cannot seem to get my elbows up and I'm unsure what the flexibility issue is. Doing front squats doesn't really help, since I can't get my elbows up high there, either. Pretty much the only thing stopping me from working cleans and pullups over pendlay rows.
>>36012857
You seem very knowledgeable.
Thoughts on ICF based on SS 3x5 instead of SL 5x5? Basically follow SS and add Blaha's accessories?
>>36018414
widen grip
>>36018414
Go to youtube and find some mobility work. "Mobility for clean rack"
There aren't any big differences between the two programs. I like SL:s progression system more since there's no need to rush progress as a beginner(who cares if you add 50 kg or 30 kg to your squat working sets in the first month) and doing higher volume ultimately pays off more than lower volume, but I'd reccomend not starting with the bar but work up to a kinda easy weight and start from there.
As for excercise selection rows are better then power cleans for almost every purpose, chins can also be hard for beginners to do properly for any kind of meaningful volume.
Both SS and SL goes full retard when you stall for the third? time though, telling you to lower the volume significantly when a smarter move would be to switch program to one with higher volume that has more specialisation towards your goals.
Is this a good program for a semi-beginner?
I want to build muscle. 185cm x 80kg
Off days would be cardio mainly stretching
http://strawpoll.me/6825230
I've been curious for some time, let's see how many people do either program.
>>36018969
why does dips go from 3x5 to 5x5?
also replace crunches with ab wheel/hanging leg raise alternating
>>36019436
I forgot to edit the second one to 3x5. I did 3x5 since they're extras. might even do 3x4.
with crunches I meant an assortment of abs exercise. there's no ab wheel at my gym, I'll do the hanging raise
>>36018617
>rows better than cleans for every purpose
>>36013244
trappy-chan is literally the most helpful trip on /fit/
it helps to know it's him because you can trust what he says
>>36013244
thank fuck someone encapsulated exactly what I feel.
why aren't tripfags more widely detested here?
why are they given any credibility?
>>36018969
No its not, if you want to build muscles you need to do more reps at the exercises. Dont fall for the "powerlift" meme. First build mass, then build strengh.
>>36019892
>First build mass, then build strengh.
that's fucking retarded. bad troll
>>36019705
>trusting a DYEL NEET
>>36019892
its like getting facial reconstructive surgery first and then working on personality last
>>36019899
He is right. Endurance, then mass, then strength, then speed/power. Repeat.
>>36012711
so im doing SL here
and on mondays i do
curls
tricep extensions
abwheel
ohp
rows
dumbbell only 3x8
I never got the huge debate over SS and SL, when the differences between the two are marginal. Diet and sleeping are probably more important to gains than any differences between two similar programs.
>>36020458
then i guess i overeat?
my thighs are getting huge
trex mode
>>36019463
I said almost every purpose fucktard. Power cleans are good for sports training since they require explosive movement, but for what else? Rows will add more mass.
>>36019892
>No its not, if you want to build muscles you need to do more reps at the exercises.
Source pls.
>inb4 conventional wisdom
>>36019899
Why is that retarded? What's your reasoning?
does eiteher program give you an extra muscular back?
>>36017375
Curls are his guiltily pleasure, he recommends to do them with SS because they don't interfere with the rest of the program.
>>36017498
Faggot: can't read a short book
>>36018418
They are all the same. They are all beginner programs, nobody but a retard would care
>>36020469
No they are not, you just don't know what huge thighs look like
>>36020504
No you fucking mong. These are programs for beginners, they will give you noob gains.
>>36020567
>they will give you noob gains.
what routine does give you a super muscular back then?
>>36020584
crossfit and strongman stuff, the back is mostly connective tissue
>>36020957
Nigger what
>>36020584
You won't go from untrained to a lu tier back overnight. Any routine will do for a start, once linear gains are over then switch to an intermediate routine and do plenty of accessories for your back
>>36022634
I was just memeing because he asked a stupid question
>>36020957
this is retarded
