some of you faggots are literally retarded
Micros matter to anyone who cares about their health
Whole foods matter to anyone who cares about nutrient density
The IIFYM choir is retarded. Yes, most of you are still eating like retards even if the weight is under control. Enjoy your binary approach and the 38294324932432 processed ingredients, additives, preservatives, watchlist ingredients and organ damage that come with them.
>cheerios
diabetes
>chipotle
food poisoning
>burger
colon cancer
>eggs
heart disease
>ice cream
gyno
>>35709392
>>35709403
Sources please.
Fuck off retards.
>>35709392
Going to add to this:
Find a doctor who would put their reputation on the line and say Cheerios are healthier than oats.
They won't. You know why? Because they're not focusing on literally one thing (weight).
On the whole, Cheerios lose to oats every single time. Only an IIFYM-tard would argue otherwise.
>>35709403
Rekt
some of those macros are a bit suspicious to me tho
but this is all you need for nutrition
http://www.barbellmedicine.com/potpourri/584/
>>35709345
Who the fuck has a TDEE of 2700 calories at 75kg? This is a guide for extreme lanklets.
Also, you need to look at caloric density. 1cal = 1cal, but one side will satiate hunger better because you're eating more food.
>>35709416
neither one of the guys you replied to, but they are right. Are you a nyr or something?
>>35709416
Eat 100 grams of carbs worth of sour patch kids and eat 100 grams of carbs of oatmeal before a workout and tell me what will feel better. Iifym is good if it is 90 %clean and 10% dirty. Those that go above that usually lack self control and are just feeding the childish side of their personality
>>35709416
You see that guys?
He asked for a source in response to being told that fast food and ice cream are processed to hell.
What are you going to ask me next, a source for Soda having sugar?
Just how woefully unaware are you?
IIFYM retards, ladies and gentlemen. Not even once.
>>35709463
Lmao no I just wanted to piss them off so they'd give me sources to read. I'm an October 2014 resolutioner.
>>35709483
Congrats on having learn nothing in over a year, you desperate imbecile.
Go make your arteries frown and munch on a burger.
>>35709496
>learn
whoops, learned*
Anyway, this thread is finished. Godspeed flat cock. Guarantee you're fat.
>>35709480
Mfw I have no face cause you all fell for the bait.
>>35709507
6' 180lbs...
>>35709520
>trolls trolling trolls is the new 4chan ladies and gentlemen
>>35709345
>thats the amount of shit i should be eating for gains
fuck, not gonna make it brahs
>>35709403
>chicken breast
Parabens, estrogen, shit omega-6 fats and no omega-3
>White fish
Heavy metals, shit omega-6
>only eating fat free or unsaturated fats
Low testosterone, other hormonal problems
>eating a set diet
Setting yourself up for nutrient deficiency
>being afraid of sugar
Doesn't matter, we are lean athletes
>Afraid of saturated fats and cholesterol
Doesn't matter, we are lean athletes with optimized hormones. Plus sat fat boosts good cholesterol and lowers triglycerides and lowers SHBG levels
Eating balanced is the way to go. Don't just eat one grain or vegetable or meat. Potatoes, fries, desserts without too much shitty polyunsaturated omega-6s and trans fats are all fine to eat, so long as they don't make up the majority of your plate every meal.
Hell, even alcohol and soda are okay in small amounts.
Be fucking balanced. Holy Christ. Your grandmothers knew better than you.
>>35709520
Tee-hee! You guys fell for I was just pretending to be a retard!
Okay? And? You just made yourself look retarded so people would call you retarded??
>american health education
>>35709460
I have a TDEE of ~2700-2800 calories as a 5'8" manlet weighing 75kg (167lbs) and I bulk at 3000-3300 calories.
>>35709345
>500g Brown rice
How do even eat that much in one sitting?
>>35709639
I eat 2700 to maintain at 5'8" 138 pounds and don't even do cardio, lift only 3 times a week
>>35709617
Not that poster and not even part of this thread but
>Doesn't matter, we are lean athletes
That's a really odd argument. You could say the same about smoking and drinking, the guy not doing those would be better off. Health recommendations are for all unhealthy behaviors and it's wishful thinking to believe that doing some of them will confer magical protection against the rest.
>>35709651
Seriously, I can barely stomach 1 cup of oats.
Right is a lot cheaper tho
I can't cook my own In n Out or Ben & Jerry's
>>35709345
>what are micronutrients?
>>35709804
good point
>>35709708
You are probably just overestimating how much you eat.
Pointless posting this cuz no one will trust me but fuck it.
Sorry for the shitty medical term non native inglesio here. Mom's close friend.
Dietician doctor works in Moscow hospital. Used to work in Ljubljana in the neurology department and the deparment where they specialize in viruses and bacteria.
One of the biggest experts on diabetes in Europe. Working on developing a cure for the deebs.
Told me this.
Carbs dont matter unless you are diabetic. Nutrients dont matter much just don't go full potato. Eat some veggies and take multivitamins. IIFYM is more sustainable and doesn't lead to binge eating.
But you know, you ate rice for 5 years and you've been lifting for 7 you are probably an expert in nutrition.
>>35709345
what's the difference in sodium tho
>>35709772
Eating saturated fats and cholesterol is absolutely healthy and essential to proper hormonal function, longevity and well being. About half of the 85 grams of fat I consume daily are saturated, and I have 61 mg/dl HDL, 66 LDL and 49 triglycerides. These are top-tier cholesterol levels, with no chance of ever developing heart disease, despite it running in my family. I am healthier than anyone else in my family because I am lean. That's it.
My testosterone level is 903 ng/dl, over the 95th percentile for all men.
I eat beef, eggs, dairy, potatoes, tons of greens and fruits, Greek yogurt, nuts and occasional bread or sugary desserts.
I don't just think my lifestyle permits me I eat saturated fats and cholesterol because they are so called 'unhealthy', I know that eating them increases my well being, sex drive, testosterone and physical strength and endurance.
Fat cunts who don't take responsibility for their diet and get fat have withdrawn responsibility for their health and have created a dysfunction such that they cannot enjoy the things that I consume on a daily basis.
The things that hurt them make me stronger and happier.
>>35709862
Want me to list what I ate today?
Slice of pepperoni pizza. 8 oz burger with veggies, 3 oz French fries. One cup Greek yogurt. An orange and an apple. 4 oz cantaloupe. Grilled cheese sandwich. One half of a veggie quesadilla. One cup of skim milk. 2 oz tilapia. 3 oz strip steak. 2 cups of spring mix, cucumber, carrot and broccoli. One slice of wheat bread with 1 tbsp of cottage cheese. A Brazil nut, a macadamia nut, an almond and a walnut. One fish oil capsule.
I ate more than 2700 calories today because I walked a couple miles more Than usual
yea, except I'd literally be starving after eating 3k calories with the meal on the left
eating at a surplus, a slight surplus, is key
also dont neglect carbs or you will feel/perform like shit.
I feel 100x better since ending my cut. I was too skinny anyway, and now im stronger and have gained minimal fat, if any.
>>35709345
>bulk with 3,000 calories.
God damn you must be a fucking manlet.
some foods do promote fat buildup instead of protein synthesis though
>>35709403
>>ice cream
>gyno
Never heard that before, can you explain?
>>35709946
impressive, you certainly have good genetics and can probably chain elongate saturated fats easily though keep in mind serum cholesterol, triglycerides and testosterone aren't the be all end all for health. you're probably young too and have a long way to go before worrying about aging-associated disease
but like the anecdotes of long-lived smokers and alcoholics this is irrelevant to majority of the human population where sugar and the like are independent risk factors and seen as harmful
>>35710042
dairy products tend to contain a lot of hormones which can cause gyno in developing young males
pretty sure it happened to me
>>35709403
>>35710042
Looking into it, seems it's the trans fats? Always heard processed foods can fuck with your hormones but never seen it explained.
Reading some shit about how there's "estrogen-like molecules" in processed food but the article also implies that gyno is just fat and not breast tissue so I'm hesitant to believe it.
>>35710128
Cottage cheese and whey are dairy too though, so I doubt that was his point.
>>35709345
Look i'm a fan of IIFYM, i've used it before to extent with good results.
That aside you can't sit there with a straight face and suggest people eat take out foods and ice cream over a well balanced diet. Even if the nutrition is for P/C/F is the same (i'd be very sceptical of that being the case). Any doctor you sit down with is going to tell you to go with diet number two and i could but you money people with diet 2 are doing to live longer and feel better on number 2.
IIFYM is good because you can eat trash to gain (and even lose) weight with a bit of ease. However, then end goal definitely should be a clean diet (but respect the cheat day).
>>35709345
>no drink at Chipotle
>no drink at In-N-Out
>reasonable portions of cereal, ice cream
Fucking good luck
>>35710460
I was given a free drink at Five Guys once. I chose green tea and ended up pouring it out after a few sips. Fast food beverages suck.
>>35709617
Tfw no gains granny
>>35710128
>in developing young males
Reported for being underage!
>>35710606
reading comprehension bro?
it happened to me when i was in puberty, 23 now
>>35709813
you mean the shit that you can take in pill form?
>>35709954
drink some fiber with your meal, they sell fiber powder in the grocery store
>>35710460
I get water at In-n-out
>>35709946
Yaaay, fringe views being asserted with support from unverified ancedotes. My favorite.
Are eggs really heart attack city? I like having eggs like once or twice a week with that nice drippy yolk. Too much cholesterol and shit?
>>35710551
>green tea at five guys
if you're doin it brah, get that there peach mello yello, if it has those newfangled pop machines
make green tea at home yo
>>35710737
Did your gyno go away? Or did u need surgery?
>>35711104
'Fringe views'
All I ask of people who think that anything but overrating causes heart disease is to name one person who is fit and lean and has experienced heart disease.
I'm talking like nothing above 20% body far for a male and maybe 27% for a woman.
And the truth is, all women should be around 22-23 and all men no fatter than 16, age 5 or age 100.
Look at Africa, Asia and Europe- Africans have a low incidence of obesity, heart disease etc in Africa, despite being more predisposed to heart disease, yet when Africans, Asians or Europeans move to UK or US, they all get fat and begin to experience the same chronic diseases we have here.
And sure- we eat more meat, especially red meat, in the U.S. and UK- but you ultimately don't get fat just by eating red meat, you have to be in a caloric surplus which means all of your macronutrient intake- fats, sugars, proteins, everything- increases.
It's not the fault of beans, hydrogenated oil, milk, beef, eggs, sugar, fruit, wheat or any one thing that causes chronic illnesses. It's being obese, eating too much food.
How hard is this for people to understand. I think people are just irresponsible as fuck
>>35711153
Cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease. Your body manufactures its own cholesterol anyway, just like the cows and chickens do that we eat.
People who are susceptible to heart disease- obese people- who have compromised livers, fatty organs, metabolic syndrome- these people need to worry about their cholesterol because at that point, their bodies are damaged and no longer able to handle certain things.
If you are healthily lean and exercise regularly, as should everyone on this website, you should be able to eat plenty of cholesterol and fat if you choose, and if you are vegan, you can and I would argue, should, indulge in coconut fat regularly, which is mostly saturated fat.
You of course have to count your calories. It may be tempting to eat three cheeseburgers a day, but that will likely lead to obesity and therefore you will become unhealthy but not as a direct result of the fat and cholesterol intake.
>>35711716
>name one person who is fit and lean and has experienced heart disease.
Wilt Chamberlain was a pretty famous case. Former NBA player, lean and active until his death, died of congestive heart failure.
>Look at Africa, Asia and Europe- Africans have a low incidence of obesity, heart disease etc in Africa, despite being more predisposed to heart disease, yet when Africans, Asians or Europeans move to UK or US, they all get fat and begin to experience the same chronic diseases we have here.
Their whole diets change. I don't know why you're singling out fatness when even at the same weight, they have lower chronic disease rates. Their diets tend to favor plant foods like vegetables and legumes over animal foods.
>It's not the fault of beans, hydrogenated oil, milk, beef, eggs, sugar, fruit, wheat or any one thing that causes chronic illnesses. It's being obese, eating too much food.
Obesity is one contributor, food itself is a major cause. I don't know how you could possibly think otherwise, as if different foods have no measurable effects on your body aside from the effect of the calorie intake on your BMI/bodyfat. What are you basing this on?
>>35711792
>Cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease. Your body manufactures its own cholesterol anyway
It manufactors its own cholesterol, but there's such thing as too much of something. In the case of cholesterol, having too much can lead to atherosclerosis.
>>35711716
>It's not the fault of beans, hydrogenated oil, milk, beef, eggs, sugar, fruit, wheat or any one thing that causes chronic illnesses. It's being obese, eating too much food.
Holy fuck someone couldn't possibly be this retarded. Are you underage? Suffer brain damage? Drop out of school? What do you think "fit and lean" people die from? Or are you delusional enough to think they live forever?
>>35709790
Wtf lmao skelly
>>35712135
So, I can't argue with any of those points.
This is when I pull the relativity argument for maximizing health and enjoyment.
IF you're white and 20 years old like I am, and thriving on a particular diet, you might as well stick to it.
I grasp how saturated fats and cholesterol can contribute to certain diseases- they are anabolic in nature. Our bodies concert them into anabolic hormones which can raise blood cell count and blood volume, therefore making the heart work harder. And of course these lipids have certain chemical and physical properties that make them more able to build up in the body.
But at the same time, if you're able to eat these things and flourish, produce high levels of testosterone, and feel great, why wouldn't you?
I think I would perhaps be able to live longer on an intermittent starvation diet, eating only the bare minimum and living like a monk- I could abstain from sex, too- but I don't, because I would not enjoy living like that, even if it guaranteed me 126 years on this planet.
>>35712219
>>35712219
None of those things. It should be obvious that I am begging for moderation and balance in one's diet, for purposes of longevity and enjoyment.
I'm talking explicitly about deaths related to heart disease, metabolic syndrome and obesity which are 90% fixable in most people by losing fat and being reasonably active and eating a balanced diet.
>>35709708
Yeah you're a liar
>>35712278
>If you're white and 20 years old like I am
I figured that. Here's something to consider though, you're not going to be 20 years old forever. What seems great now may fuck you over in the future. Chronic diseases aren't typically a problem young people face, but they pop up later in life and are influenced by how you ate and how you lived when you were younger. Just like exercise vs sedentary lifestyle has different health effects, so do foods. If you just want to argue for moderation and balancing enjoyment with healthy practices and hoping for the best, okay, but get out of here with that "the only thing that matters is bodyfat %" bullshit
>>35711716
> name one person who is fit and lean and has experienced heart disease.
I haven't experienced heart disease, but I was cutting & got high cholesterol because of IIFYM & keto (tried keto for only 4 weeks, eating bacon daily). When I stopped keto, I did an inn & out double double without the spread every day for lunch, and ate half a ribeye steak every night for dinner. My cholesterol went 1 point over the threshold for the normal limit after all this, and I'm lean as fuck 10% bf.
>>35712356
No, I do overstate the calories though, admittedly. It's only by about 100 calories. So maintaining is about 2600.
I've kept detailed logs before, on my first cut, on my recent cut, on my bulk- it's pretty consistent.
The diet I listed earlier on here was a bit off- the burger I had was basically the size of a five guys 2 party burger, and the Greek yogurt was fat free. So you're talking about 2800 calories today. Maintenance or slight surplus.
I used to be a distance runner between age 12 to 18 so that probably elevated my metabolism, for real.
>>35712423
Keto is another ballpark entirely. I eat 15% protein 30% fat and 55% carbs and don't particularly believe in any diet that greatly restricts any macronutrient.
I'm sure Keto works for some people it not all.
>>35712418
I'm aware of changes. The thing is, I'm physically superior in every way to every man in my family as far back as I know of. I'm watching myself, and I'm not going to let myself become unhealthy
>>35712533
>Keto is another ballpark entirely.
No, you wrote that "food doesn't cause heart disease, being obese does". Your statement is wrong according to my own health markers which show I'm at increased risk of heart disease, soley from eating too much red meat & bacon while on a CUT at 10% bf.
>>35709345
>I want replies
>>35712533
Also, things like brown rice & oatmeal are proven to reduce cholesterol. Eating the same macros doesn't have this same effect. There's anti-oxidants in fruits & whole grains that once in the blood stream "stick" to bad cholesterol & help remove it. Other foods directly add good cholesterol to the blood.
In fact I'd go as far as to say the opposite of what you said is true. Being obese, or being a bulky bodybuilder doesn't cause heart disease. It is the shit food that an obese person or bulky bodybuilder tends to eat which causes heart disease.
>>35712278
>I grasp how saturated fats and cholesterol can contribute to certain diseases- they are anabolic in nature. Our bodies concert them into anabolic hormones which can raise blood cell count and blood volume, therefore making the heart work harder. And of course these lipids have certain chemical and physical properties that make them more able to build up in the body.
LOL this is so wrong. Are you just making this stuff up as you go? Ironically the lipotoxicity and systemic inflammation that comes from the membrane-rigidifying effects of high saturated fat and cholesterol tends to inhibit cell proliferation and other anabolic processes.
>>35712677
no silly. eating mcDoubles is literally steroids xD
>>35712677
>>35712631
>>35712601
I know there are other mechanisms through which saturated fats affect the cardiovascular system, and I may not be aware of every single one of them.
Also note that all my arguments are centered around moderation. I'm not advocating to eat 80% of your calories from saturated fat, but maybe 15%. The dose makes the poison with anything.
It just bothers me that body builders, of all people, who shoot up trenbolone and take arimidex and all this shit that destroys your blood lipids and liver and grows your heart, are often advocating low fat diets for 'muh heart healthy', when natural athletes actually need a decent amount of fats, saturated and not.
Shit gets me pissed.
>>35709403
gotta agree with you on the cereal and chipotle thing
theyre fuckin awful
Speaking of oats.
How good are quaker instant bags?
Obviously the sugar content isn't great, but are the oats ok?
>>35710147
yep, trans fats are man made fats, inedible to humans. They go straight to clogging arteries. That's why Europe banned trans fats.
>>35709946
>49 triglycerides
uhhhh it's optimally supposed to be below 34, dude. You're misguided. Also your good cholesterol level is too low.
>>35709894
>Nutrients don't matter much just don't go full potato.
Nutrients matter. Especially in the long run. Here's a nice example by a very renowned scientist and not just some hearsay by a third world dietician:
http://www.anaboliclabs.com/User/Document/Articles/Vitamin%20K/1.%20McCann,%20Ames,%20Vitamin%20K,%202009.pdf
>>35713164
It's about the total to HDL ratio, which for me is 2:1
My TG are extremely low compared to average, even for athletes.
Friggin DurianRider has higher total cholesterol and lower HDL than I do, and he's a raw vegan cyclist
Certainly you've got to be kidding me if you don't think those are excellent lipid levels. My doctor specifically wrote on the panel 'lipids- excellent!'
>>35709345
This seems like the ideal place to ask. Can someone educate me on the difference between complex carbs and simple carbs? If I am concerned only with gaining weight does it matter if I get my calories mostly from one or the other?
>>35709345
Your statement is most likely technically correct.
But without reading the rest of the thread i will predict the outcome.
>I was merely pretending to be retarded.
>>35709441
Thanks, that was a nice read.
This and the link from that page to conditioning.
>>35709345
I know this is the baitiest of bait, but:
>20g of fat in oatmeal
>chicken salad has 42g fat
I know the author is trying to fix the math by adding "+olive oil" "+flax" but this is fucking retarded.
You'll get the IIFYM Jedis though.
>>35711028
why do you trip?
>>35717235
because of the support /fit/ gives me and personalized advice over the years
>>35709345
i ate some bacon fat and i didnt get a heart attack therefore heart attacks are fake and doctors are conspiracies
