Im willing to make the argument that Pseudo planche push-ups are superior to Bench press for athletes, as well as general fitness.
1.no ego lifting
2.no weight needed
3.full kinetic chain involvement
4.points out mobility issues
5. could be coupled with pullup progressions
6. not easy to cheat
Mark ripple toe himself said if push-ups could be progressed optimally with weight he would pick them over Bench Press to put in his program. So why not go for the next best thing?
>>35478355
>Mark ripple toe himself said if push-ups could be progressed optimally with weight he would pick them over Bench Press to put in his program.
How can PPP be progressed?
>>35478399
To tucked planche push ups -> straddle planche pushups -> planche pushups
>>35478399
All you need is a measuring stick and a stable stick like in this
>gif related
You progress the lean by 1 centimeters from a week to week basis, and take a deload on the 3rd or 4th week.
>>35478424
lmao no, im just talking about pusedo planche push-ups, those progressions are ass.
>>35478458
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pijouRuLg9g&
7:57
In this video they explain it a little better, but i feel like you could apply this same concept to puedo planche leans push-ups
>>35478458
>You progress the lean by 1 centimeters from a week to week basis
>How much do you bench bro?
>Oh no, you see, I don't believe in the bench press. I prefer Pseudo planche push-ups (perhaps you know them as PPP) because they provide true, functional strength for athletes such as myself. So while I cannot tell you how much I bench, as I have never performed that particular lift, I can and will tell you that I can perform ten pseudo planche push-ups at a degree of seven centimeters
>>35478573
What a baby. I bet you only pretend to lift online because you saw a picture of yourself in an FPH thread
>>35478474
ass? planche pushups are impressive as hell
>>35478573
>How much do you bench bro
>Fuck off, 'bro'
>>35478573
This, 100 per fucking cent. If you're a man who lifts weights you literally NEED to have an answer to "how much ya bench" (daht net).
>>35478653
You do know if you train pusedo planche for long enough you can get a planche.
>>35478675
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWy6b2Esurw
>"how much you bench bro"
>i don't bench, but last time i test it i got 300 pounds m8
>>35478573
My fucking sides
>>35478573
Or you could just do a PPP right there, and say "I do these"
>>35478702
>this is the first time I've ever benched!
>oh, this rack and flat bench in my room? I don't remember where they came from
Fucking lel @ you for buying what is clearly an advertisement.
>>35478675
Most people lie about numbers brah or use some shitty half reps.
You can bust out a PPP anywhere.
>>35478741
Even more autistic tbqh. The bench press is a good compound lift for your pressing musculature, it's not in the least 'nonfunctional' unless it's literally the only lift you do.
Do I have to kiss a floor like an idiot? People walk on that stuff, you know
>>35478746
Some people have friends anon.
>>35478458
Where do i get stable stick anon
>>35478573
>How many muscle-ups can you do brah?
>lifters face when
>>35478800
>muscleups for reps
>things that build muscle or even have a point in general
el picko uno
One you get a full on lean in a couple years you can do this.
One reason I got big fucking shoulders/traps is doing handstand pushups.I was able to crank them out while weighing around 240 and doing heavy push presses
>>35478910
damnn son
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv6jfzvesi0
heres another way to do it.
How to do it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJK_wU4UVw4
More tips
1. have pelvic tilt
2.work on wrist mobility
3.achieve under grips push-ups
4. protract/depress the scapula
>Listing ego as a negative for athletes.
>>35478675
I've been watching the podcasts, bretty good/3pl8
>>35478887
>>35478960
>>35478458
>>35478355
what's the height of these guys? I need broscience excuses for not doing these and I feel manlet is going to be a good one
>>35479100
Gymnastics is literally a manlet sport and planche is a basic move there
>>35479100
good gymnasts are like 5-4 to 5-8
>>35478355
Problems for athletes:
1) Athletes come in a variety of shapes and sizes, and often need to be good at their sport/position. Pseudo planche pushups are much easier for certain body types than others.
1b) For very large athletes even progressions can be a danger to their rotator cuffs
2) High levels of thoracic spine mobility are not universally desirable
3) PPPs are not as useful for increasing raw power output. A shot-putter needs to produce a lot of force in an open kinetic chain style movement very quickly.
4)Skill threshold - strength training coaches have limited time to work with athletes in the off season. Early progressions in high skill movements like PPP will not show results as quickly as loading weighted movements. Especially for very tall or very heavy athletes
5) Athletes have limited days per week to work on strength, bodyweight skills generally require more frequent lower intensity sessions to progress optimally.
Problems for general fitness:
1) Difficult for heavy guys or untrained females, much lower frustration threshold than light pressing with weights
2) an all bodyweight routine will neglect the legs, so weights will be required or those will suffer
A case could probably be made for the weekend warrior who just wants to feel stronger, but I think PPP will lose out for anyone trying to lose weight, gain muscle, or compete in a sport that is not gymnastics.
>>35479286
But if worked optimally/frequently with other upper bw movements, it would produce a very functional power to weight ratio athlete. You can take someone who does gst, put them under a bar, and they will be able to stack some plates. do it the other way around and you're going to find it's not quite the same situation.
>>35479286
Gymnasts don't train legs on purpose because it adds unnecessary weight. They are no leg day faggots
>>35479434
They do train legs faggot
>>35479434
but what about every other type of athlete or fitness enthusiast?
>>35479367
but would you get the same benefit to power output/ raw strength given a limited time to train during the season and a short offseason to dedicate to strength stuff?
I could see this working well for combat sports, tennis players, rock climbers and a few other examples but what about Football/Rugby/Throwers who need raw power more than optimal power to weight ratio?
how about basketball and volleyball where you have extremely tall athletes with bad leverages?
or baseball where they are already stressing their rotator cuffs to the max with throwing?
What specific athlete is going to benefit from adding these in compared to bench press?
Soccer, track and field guys, endurance athletes, skating, cycling etc are probably not benching heavy anyway as they have much lower upper body requirements
>>35478355
Only manlets progress with body weight training tho.
fuck off hobbit
>>35478746
I haven't benched since grade 10 but I was a huge pussy back then. I can do one handed pushups pretty easily at 188 though which works out to about 240 at least in bench.
And it's because I have no equipment
>>35478355
I think weighted push ups are even better than this. This looks technical and maybe ill have a hard time because I have long arms
I just tried this of these based on the gifs
I can go down, I can lean, but I can't get me feet to stay off the ground and get lost.
Someone give me a quick rundown on the basics without other links and youtube videos
since this is kind of a calisthenics thread: I do the recommended routine from /r/ bodyweightfitness for 2 months now and have progressed to archer pushups. my original goal was to do one-arm pushups. but I see many people advocating planche pushups.
should I do planche PU instead? if so, why?
goal is hypertrophy.
>>35479716
you can work on planche pushup progressions for strength but you'll probably get better time under tension with regular pushups, especially if you do them on handles or chairs so you extend the range of motion. Gonna need a lot of volume to grow on calisthenics
>>35479593
>Only manlets progress with body weight training
It doesn't even make sense. Square cube law basically means that bw training is more beneficial for tallfags
>>35479771
not if they can't even do the movements. Without going to rock climbers try to point out an impressive bodyweight-only physique on someone over 6ft
>>35479716
I can do one arm pushups. I cannot figure out how to do these ones though. But they don't seem like they do as much as a one armed if I could figure it out. Who the fuck knows though. I think I'm too tall and too heavy to start attempting these.
Tomorrow is cardio/fuck around and do random shit day though so I'll check them out more in depth then
>>35479771
he means that they progress a lot easier on the hard gymnastic movements like iron cross or whatever.
>>35479796
lay done prone. place your hands on the ground 3 inches above your hips with elbows flared. Do a pushup. If you can handle this then try it with your feet up against a wall and let your feet 'slide' up the wall to get an idea of what a planche pushup would be like.
>>35479434
Legs are necessary for tumbling, jumping and all movements where the legs are swung forcefully.
Leg training is more focused on plyometrics and explosive movement than sheer numbers.
>>35478355
>willing to make the argument
>doesn't reply to valid rebuttals
>>35479716
go back to reddit
>>35479771
>what are proportions
>>35478573
top kek
>>35479619
post a vid of you actually benching 240 and I'll eat a shoe faggot
>>35479819
Don't listen to this, do this
>>35479018
>>35479582
I suppose you're right, but the only way to tell is to do an actual field study on athletes, the way i proposed progression could actually work out, also you're never too big for bodyweight!
>>35479523
go ahead and try them, you got any other questiosns ill be around asp.
>>35480175
hi
>body weight exercises
aka
>i have no legs, 2000 cals/day, DYEL edition™
>>35480487
fat powerlifter detected
>but muh 4 pl8 dl
>>35480487
this
pro athletes dont do planches or other gymnastic exercises as those skillsets dont transfer as well to real sports as well as weight training does
Never seen Zyzz or anybody swole do retard push ups
>>35480776
Its more a case that the transfer (both lifting weights and bodyweight training would be GPP in this case) doesn't provide the kind of advantage that would be worth the extra amount of skill work required for the payoff in most cases.
You still see bodyweight movements used, but typically low skill ones and often to substitute for higher skill weightlifting movements for the same reason (such as performing jumps over Olympic lifts).
>>35478355
Depends on what "athlete" you are talking about.
For strength development, pushup is utter shit.
>>35478424
That's not what progression means. We are talking about weight increments here.
I can add 2kg to my bench press on every workout and get from 50kg to 120kg bench press. What can you do with your pushups? Pro-tip: jack shit.
>>35478702
I'm laughing my ass off at the thought that people really fucking believe the dude who doesn't bench is able to bench 150kg WITHOUT SHAKING.
I've seen guys who bench over 100kg shake their arms when doing incline bench simply because their bodies are not used to the motor pattern (even though they also OHP).
Not only that, but he was clearly using LEG DRIVE. If you really believe someone who has never benched before is gonna get up on the bench and do over 130kg for reps with perfect arch and leg drive, and no shaking, sorry but you deserve to be made a fool.
This is clearly a marketing stunt to promote himself.
>>35480711
What a fucking no-thought reply
Im not defending the guy but can people on this board get an ounce of originality back and stop attaching buzzwords to shit
>muh
>muh
hum<
>>35480812
>What can you do with your pushups? Pro-tip: jack shit.
Get into more declined position
Change to harder grip
Raise a leg
Alternate grips (slide one arm forward/back, or just go one-armed)
Get pushup stands and go for deeper range
Increase range even further by doing explosive variations (clap, double clap, triple clap, toe clap etc)
If you want to be simple, strap some fucking weights on your back or use resistance band
>>35478355
I'm willing to make the argument that the bench press is superior.
1. linear progression makes you strong really fast
2. small weight increments allow for further strength development
3. full kinetic chain involvement
4. actually makes you stronger
5. can be coupled with the overhead press and the weighted pullup
6. you don't cheat
Mark Rippetoe said the bench press is better. So why not go for the best thing?
>>35480857
You can do pretty much all of those things on the bench press, though. And more.
Plus, you know, actually progressing.
>>35480885
>clapping bench press
This needs to be a thing in crossfit
>>35480837
the guys post:
>lol bodyweight training = dyel
how is his post any more thought out then mine? he is just memeing and thinks he is literally zyzz because he squats heavy 3 times a week, ignoring that many people that do bodyweight training are def. greek god mode.
now ofc people will say that those people lift or roid, and nobody can ever prove otherwise.
to get back to the point, if somebody shitposts, I will not post an elaborate reply.
>>35480902
>another one for the morgue, doc?
>yep
>jesus what the fuck why is he decapitated? what happened to him?
>crossfit
>>35478458
>dat hand placement
>>35480902
>set smith machine safeties right above the chest
>do explosive bench presses
>?????
>safe
>>35478458
Good luck seeing exactly where the 1cm is during the execution.
>>35480950
what about it?
>>35480878
Yeah except you develop more with the PPP
1.body placement awareness
2.bullet proof connective tissue
3.Complete kinetic chain development
what's working there is mainly front delts, upper chest (calvicular) and other shoulder components, right?
>>35480985
>1.body placement awareness
I'm pretty aware of my entire body being tight and not leaking power during the bench press. Specially since you have to control not only your chest/delts/triceps, but also your back and legs muscles. And when under a bar with over 100kg, I guarantee you your body is gonna be well aware of its body parts.
>2.bullet proof connective tissue
Bench press helps develop connective tissue just as well. Hell, perhaps even better since the load is way heavier.
>3.Complete kinetic chain development
Just like, you know, on the bench press.
Stop trying to buzzword me down.
>2016
Not lifting weights and also mastering advanced bodyweight exercises lol
>>35478355
doesn't look healthy for your upper back
>>35481022
You can take some one who trains planche, and they will run circles around you on benchpress, that is if you were about the same weight. Take someone who only bench presses and they won't be able to get they're hands past their belly button on the planche. The planche is such a complete movement training it alone would get you a decent dead lift because of the sheer lower back strength you needed to do it. Also the angle at which the planche is worked develops stinger connective tissue in a greater ranges of motion. The reason that gymnast are able to put their bodies through such tremendous forces of gravity when tumbling and fliping, is because of the conditioning they do.
>>35481104
If you think a decent deadlift is all about lower back strength, please stop giving advice.
>>35481022
Shut the fuck up you weaboo queer
>>35481112
>decent dead lift
They're are anecdotal stories from coachs saying they're gymnast can deadlift 400 plus pounds because of bodyweight training alone. This isint too crazy to believe seeing as gymnast train ghr, box jumps, tumbling, and of course the lowerback.
>>35481104
Your mistake is that you think the dude who only does pushups is gonna be able to bench as heavy as the dude who only benches.
The difference between the guy who does the pushups and the guy who benches is:
The guy who benches is stronger.
The guy who does pushups has more technique related to the pushups.
For an athlete, in general, being stronger is more useful than developing pushup techniques.
The reason why gymnasts are able to do the movements is because they train to perform the movements. It's not because they are stronger than a, let's say, weightlifter. It's because they have trained specifically for that. It's a technique thing (not implying it doesn't require strength).
Also, your deadlift numbers are rarely dependent on your lower back. That is only ever the case for beginners.
Your back doesn't lift the bar, it simply transfer the forces around and stabilizes the body. Not implying that's an easy job, but it's rarely gonna be what bottlenecks your deadlift.
Strongmen deadlifting huge numbers with a rounded back just goes to show that it's not a delimiting factor.
>>35481148
I call this utter bullshit since the deadlift is primarily a hip extension exercise, and there are no bodyweight exercises that will strengthen your hip extensors to the point where you will match the strength needed to deadlift 180kg.
>>35481217
back extencions
>>35481231
What?
>>35481231
You would need to be adding an absolute shitton of weight onto your back extensions before its anything close to a 400lb deadlift.
>>35481217
See you seem to think that gymnast don't progress past a planche, ever seen a maltese? You ever wonder why gymnast are so small? The amount of gravitational forces put on they're body is unbelievable. To think that someone who trains bench only could out bench an olmypic gymnast considering they're at the same weight is pretty silly m8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9NiHJCtuZ8
>>35481231
>>35481253
In fact, you are gonna snap your shit up before getting anywhere near close enough to developing enough strength to deadlift 180kg with just back extensions, kek.
And at this point, you can't even call it a "bodyweight exercise" when you are using a barbell and multiple 20kg plates with it.
TLDR version:
Calisthenics makes a stong core
Weightlifting makes strong legs
Both make a strong upper body
>>35481253
>>35481244
Say can you guys do a horizontal back extension with weight? What about a horizontal ghr, without pikeing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKdVx5Cnoc
>>35481305
I can, yes. The weighted GHR is a staple assistance movement for powerlifters.
I'd be able to achieve a 400lb deadlift off that without a huge amount of weight, but I'm also almost twice the bodyweight of the average serious gymnast.
>>35481347
on what do you ghr?
>>35481367
Floor and a barbell to anchor myself with. I'd use a GHR machine if the gym had one, just to save my knees.
>>35481382
right on man, well they are anecdotal stories. The coach i talked to tho does have his gymnast deadlift tho.
>>35481282
You are strawmaning hard, I never implied gymnasts are weak.
But your assumption that a gymnast will outbench a powerlifter is laughable.
>>35481305
Is that even supposed to be hard? I can do that and I'm NOWHERE NEAR a 180kg deadlift.
Also worth to note that GHR performed from the floor like that are more about hyperextension and knee flexion, and way less about hip extension. And while that will strengthen your hip extensors, it's not even the same movement pattern involved in a deadlift.
And let's be real, you can't be talking about callisthenics anymore when the movement is using more than a plate of weight.
Thinking you can reach the strength necessary to deadlift 180kg with bodyweight exercises is pretty delusional, but using a huge amount of weight and still call it "bodyweight" is just straight up playing a farce.
Anyways, this is obviously arguing against a wall, so I'll do something more productive with my time, kek.
>>35481439
To be fair, the difficulty of a GHR is heavily dependent on both the weight and height of the person involved. A midget isn't getting a huge pull out of unweghted GHRs, a lanky or heavy person could quite easily develop a lot of pulling strength from GHRs, provided he had some quad work from elsewhere (or he just pulls nearly stifflegged).
>>35481468
While true to some extend, you are overblowing the amount of hip extension strength you can develop with GHR by a large margin, unless you start using a barbell and adding multiple plates to it.
A 180kg deadlift is no joke.
>>35481439
>>35481430
>>35481430
here you go
>>35481430
You know you can't say that full heatedly, lets be honest we both will never know till a comp between the both happens. I can tell you for sure tho that the connective tissue of gymnast is greater than that of powerlifters.
>>35481439
Just to drive the point home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvZ09oI2dtA
One arm giants, and no connective tissue tear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjq82nYPUeo
tear from a deadlift lmaooo
>>35481496
>I can tell you for sure tho that the connective tissue of gymnast is greater than that of powerlifter
[citation needed]
>>35481486
Depends on the person. I had a 180 deadlift around about the time I was able to do a few decent unweighted reps on the GHR, but I'm tall lanky and fairly heavy so its likely not true for lighter or more compact lifters.
>>35481511
>>35481509
hereee
>>35481509
>comparing one of the most elite athletes with the most incredible genetics ever with a random mid-tier lifter.
>not understanding the difference in tendon stress that comes from between the one arm giants with pronated grip and the deadlift with supine grip
At least show a video of someone getting a biceps tear from deadlifting with a pronated grip m8. (good luck with that)
>>35481575
pleaseee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAZF8pfI_YI
>>35481575
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDcaawEBgwU
here u go
>>35478887
This is my new goal. Thanks.
>>35481632
how are you going to get to it?
>>35481611
Does that look like a deadlift to you?
>>35481645
I mean he tore it at the same angle
>>35481656
No, he didn't. A stone lift is a very different thing to a overhand deadlift - it requires bent arms and a partially supinated grip. Its like watching someone tear his bicep doing yates rows and claiming its the same thing as a deadlift.
>>35481603
>>35481611
How is that even supposed to reinforce any point whatsoever?
You posted ONE CASE of someone performing an exercise without injury, and then posted ONE CASE of someone else performing another completely different exercise and having an injury happen.
The exercises are not even similar to one another, you can't even compare the type of stress the tendons are through.
Are you legit retarded or something?
Let me show how retarded your logic is:
Here's a video of someone deadlifting without any injuries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hptK-M60O4
BOOM powerlifters confirmed 100% invincible connective tissue.
And here are videos of gymnasts being injured with completely unrelated exercises:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUpNWXYXyI
BOOM gymnasts confirmed shitty connective tissue.
>>35481656
You can't be this legit retard. Pretty sure you're just trolling, so I'll stop taking the bait.
>>35481707
The force on the arm is greater. The force on the bicep tendon is far less, because the arm isn't supinated and it isn't bent.
>>35481707
>force on arm
>stress on the distal biceps tendon
You do realise these are completely different things, right?
>>35481723
>>35481721
i posted a video of a gymnast doing eagle grip, thats even worse than supinated
>>35478355
is routine consisting of
pushups
pullups
bodyweight squats
enough to look like aziz
>>35481762
Not for the biceps tendon.
>>35481765
yes
>>35478355
I agree to an extent, planche training certainly has its place in a routine.
But you simply cannot beat the activation of the pec offered by bench, unless you incorporate rings of course.
