les mills shit < p90shit and similar < crossshit < powerlifting < oly lifting < gymnastics < ?
Also how does one integrate breakdance, yoga, capoeira and other modalities into framework above?
I don't know why people shit on P90X. Its bog standard circuit training, only sold in a package for normies. It's fairly beneficial.
Now crossfit is truly retarded
>>35423706
Do you want an actual routine or what?
Yoga, Gymnastics, and Capoeira have a lot of crossover.
Yoga's mobility and dynamic handbalancing build a great framework for gymnastics (and has some movements that go above basic gymastics). Gymnastics provides a great framework for Capoeira (and has some movements that are more advanced than Capoeira, especially with bar involvement which Capoeira doesn't touch). Capoeira can be done without either yoga or gymnastics, but will have a lot of requisite work which comes from Yoga and Gymnastics.
Gymnastics and Capoeira both have very advanced skills, but I believe Gymnastics has a higher level of mastery because its range of skills are more broad and most movements are more difficult. (Gymnastics -> is Capoeira is easier than Capoeira -> gymnastics)
Ideally you'll include some stuff from each field.
The best way to start is to pick out which movements seem cool to you and work their progressions.
Look at the movements that Ido Portal has and observe his stuff. From there it's up to you to choose your progression method and to stick with the training.
What are you interested in accomplishing?
>>35423925
which yogic movements would you consider above basic gymnastics?
>>35423829
This ....if you are an untrained /b/tard doing p90x will change your life. ESPECIALLY if you are a fatty.
The diet advance isnt even that crappy. Its incredibly simple and easy to follow.
>>35423981
The number of these movements aren't very large, but there are some.
Scorpion to hand stand is a movement that you aren't going to traditionally see in gymnastics. Some gymnasts will be able to do this once they have other more advanced movements, but this is one of those that Gymnastics doesn't typically focus on.
Another one would be one-arm psuedo-planches. Again, a strong enough gymnast could do these, but they don't focus on them.
OP probably means fad diets and fad routines by "p90shit and similar", which DO actually belong at the very bottom, maybe not P90x itself though
Strongman is top tier.
Gymnastics shouldn't even be on that list, it's a shitty manlet sport and belongs on /asp/
>>35424198
You're fucking stupid...
Powerlifting could be considered a man let sport at the top level, so could bodybuilding
Even learning how to do basic gymnastic movements have the ability to change your body for the better as well as having huge carryover when it comes to lifting.
>Planches
>L-sits
>body levers
Even shit like handstands have great carry over
>>35424251
>at the top level
In the SHW class, everyone is at least 6'
Meanwhile the tallest olympic gymnast is shorter than that lmao
It's much more of a shitty manlet sport than any other one and the benefits/carry-over to other types of training are negligible
>>35424375
I really hate doing this but you are playing directly into the "thick headed, fat, out-of-shape powerlifter" powerlifter stereotype...
Obviously there are going to exceptions (especially in a sport with weight classes) but are you going to sit here and tell me that a person with widehips, short legs and short arms doesn't have an advantage in powerlifting?...
Yes manlets have an advantage in gymnastics but why is that enough completely disregard basic gymnastic movements anyone can do?
Do you not deadlift because you will never pull 800lbs?
Are you saying that basic isometric movements have no merit? Are you saying that handstand push ups off blocks don't help with general shoulder health? Are planks stupid? do You think people with 1 minute L-sits don't have better and stronger abs than you do?
You are everything wrong with fitness and no better than the fatties
>It's different and hard so fuck it I'm not gonna do it!
Apply yourself
>>35424685
kek pathetic
>>35423706
BOXING>>>>>>>>>>>>rest
hey don't fuck with Les Mills, fag
>>35424780
I don't have to, he's getting fired
>>35424375
What sort of fag even cares about that?
The smart man cares about what each training modality will do for his body, not what sort of physique will genetic predisposition is more conducive to elite level performance at each modality as a competitive sport.
Plus if you want to be elite level with normie genetics, you are as damned in powerlifting as in gymnastics. Maybe you could qualify for the special olympics, though. The rest of us are just looking for the best way to improve ourselves.
>>35424715
>>35423706
What is the guy in the pic doing?
What is that bar (rod?) called?
>>35423925
wheres ur instagram and videos mate
>>35424685
It's simply not worth the effort if you're not a literal dwarf
the time of most people on this board, including mine, could be spent in a way better and more productive manner by utilizing various forms of barbell training
also good job comparing lifting x amount, something I could actually work up to, to fucking genetics, something I am simply stuck with
have fun being an 120lbs skeleton with sick plank skills tho
>>35424828
>i do manletmastics because i am ~smart~
lmao you could not be any more of a dumb pretentious faggot
if you were as smart as you're telling yourself you are, you'd know memesthenics is a shit time investment with minimal reward other than some epic party tricks
>>35425741
pommel?
>>35424685
This faggot is absolutely right. Literally none of us will make the Olympics for any of this fitness shit we do, and even if we try our hardest, we will inevitably face defeat... But just because we will lose, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
This is especially true for fitness because not only are there no consequences for losing, the fact you're even in the competition means you're stay in shape, being healthy, and in general becoming a better person than if you just sat at home and mocked the effort of others.
>>35424251
>Powerlifting could be considered a man let sport
Actual competing powerlifter here, it IS a manlet sport, but at least we have leg development.
>>35426358
There's one guy in /plg/ who went to World's and a few more with a good chance of doing the same. Also, the US talent pool for Olympic weightlifting is relatively small.
>>35426226
Nope I compared genetic propensity to elite level performance in a sport.
If you think than anyone and everyone can achieve a 800lb deadlift than you are seriously delusional..genetically some people can and some people can't.
You...cannot.
Also if you truly believe that the end all be all to fitness is barbell training you are selling yourself massively short.
Do you think that being able to run 10k in sub 40 minutes wont help with work capacity in any form?
Do you think correctly performed box jumps and plyometrics don't carry over to your squat performance?
Do you think that isometric strength has no carry over to open chain and closed chain movements
What are your sources for this not being beneficial? Because there's documented evidence that a lot of gymnasts at the advanced level can pull twice their bodyweight in the deadlift while being untrained in it.
And at the end of the day you can call me a skeleton, but I can call you fat...
>>35424685
Gymnastics just doesn't worth it. Like every bodyweight exercise it has an incredibly bad gains/time ratio.
Strengthwise gymnastics isn't better than weightlifting. By the time you reach 1 minute L-sits you could have been deadlifting 3 to 4 plates for reps and you are retarded if you think someone who can deadlift that much is going to have abs weaker than 1 min L-sitter.
Handstand pushups does not help with strength. I can easily go for 10- 20 reps with them. My OHP? Barely a plate. I can hold a planche well but can not bench 2 plates.
Gymnastics is not designed to train the shape of an average man. Its mostly skill work. It is amazing to gain as a skill but not imperative to have if your only goal is to be fit and strong. And most importantly it is too inefficient. And don't get me started with horses and other unnecessary shit.
Most improtantly 1 plate OHPs, 2 plate benches and 3 plate deadlifts aren't exactly high tier. They are basically end of novice tier where people can reach at most in a year and anyone who reaches that point surpass any kind of gymnast-within same training time- in terms of strength, athleticism and looks. Gymnastics gains come very late and very hard, they might surpass others at that point but why spend 5-10 years looking subpar and training hard only to barely feel slightly better afterwards?
>>35426458
My point isnt that gymnastics is a better form of exercise than weight lifting, its that basic gymnastics and isometric skills have positive carryover TO weight training.
I'm not advocating that everyone should quit weight lifting and start a gymnastic routine...
I'm also not saying that if you can do a planche you are going to have an above average bench. But they can help...treat them as accessory movements and treat them as such. Also don't use personal anecdotal evidence to support your argument.
>>35426442
>Also if you truly believe that the end all be all to fitness is barbell training you are selling yourself massively short.
You train with barbells to gain strength, then choose something you want to be better at in terms of fitness if you want something other than pure strength and train according to it.
>Do you think that being able to run 10k in sub 40 minutes wont help with work capacity in any form?
Check the first answer. Gain strength, then learn proeper running technique for this example.
>Do you think correctly performed box jumps and plyometrics don't carry over to your squat performance?
They don't. Not in a significant way. If someone can squat 160kg at 80kg bodyweight chances are they won't be able to increase it with plyometrics/box jumps etc. faster than standard barbell training.
>Do you think that isometric strength has no carry over to open chain and closed chain movements
Good point. But you don't need gymnastics for it. And again you don't NEED it.
>What are your sources for this not being beneficial? Because there's documented evidence that a lot of gymnasts at the advanced level can pull twice their bodyweight in the deadlift while being untrained in it.
BWx2 Deadlift isn't "good". It's barely a signal for the end of the novice period.
>And at the end of the day you can call me a skeleton, but I can call you fat...
You can actually be lean and strong, powerlifters do tend to be fat but not all who are strong are powerlifters. You have to be a skeleton-a short one- if you want to be a gymnast. A powerlifter can cut and look shredded, if a gymnast tries to go for that he loses what he trained for. And worse cutting takes 3 to 6 months at worst, gaining significant amount of muscle takes years.
>>35426609
See>>35426582
Ignore last sentence
>>35426582
>My point isnt that gymnastics is a better form of exercise than weight lifting, its that basic gymnastics and isometric skills have positive carryover TO weight training.
You spend time which could be spent on other kinds of training which have better positive effects on weightlifting.
>But they can help...treat them as accessory movements and treat them as such.
Why spend doing planches when you can bench one more set or do weighted dips? Also what if the carryover effect stops when your lifts surpass your bodyweight by a significant margin?
>Also don't use personal anecdotal evidence to support your argument.
You are in a board. Boards thrive on anecdotal evidences, it is their purpose even. If you had the aptitude you can/could have checked any relevant journal for comparative effects or just would have collected data and ran a t-test. You came to the wrong place if you want inferential or descriptive statistics attached on every piece of word that contradicts you.
>>35426336
ok thanks
>>35426700
Alright, if you want to go anecdotal then fine.
There are literally a dozen or so webms floating around /owg/ of world class weightlifters doing plyometrics (box jumps), weight headstands, weighted push-ups, and weighted planks. There's even one of a Chinese lifter doing a 1 handed planche.
The original argument was dismissing any kind of basic isometric or gymnastic work as stupid because "its a stupid manlet sport". And it evolved into "you should just be benching more anyway, you shouldn't do that shit"
Maybe some people have different fitness goals. Maybe some people can see that some things aren't mutually exclusive and some things have carryover. Maybe some people would benefit more from basic gymnastics work then "just squat more dude". Maybe your fitness goals are more shallow than other peoples.
>>35426993
the chinese do some bodyweight stuff.
the russian and the bulgarian dont, and their athletes are as strong as the chinese ones.
not saying is useless, it's just another way of strenghten the muscles needed for the olympic lifts.
clarence has a 405 kg total as a junior and the only things he does beside squat and classics are push press bench press and sit ups.
>>35424251
>bodybuilding is a sport
>>35427687
If you are not arguing that they are useless then what's your point other than to argue?
If they are utilized by some of the top strength athletes in the world then why argue that they wouldn't be effective for an intermediate fitizen to incorporate them into his routine.
Take an average intermediate strength trainee with 1/2/3/4 plate strength standards. If you were to incorporate isometric and gymnastic movements such as
>ring dips with proper form
>body levers
>l-sits
>handstand work
ALONGSIDE his weight training regimen are you saying there would not be any carryover?
You are absolutely right. there are better methods to increase performance at the elite level of strength sports and strength training then bodyweight movements and manipulation.
Also, i think you are only taking into account more weight on the bar = progress. Even if the hypothetical lifter above didn't increase weight on the bar on any lift but developed an impeccable quality of movement from learning to use his entire body as one mechanism it still would have been beneficial.
>>35427925
Not buy any conventional use of the term sport. But shorter bodybuilders do have an advantage in the modern day elite class of bodybuilding
>>35428022
it depends, oly lifting and powerlifting requires specificity to be good at.
if you lift for general fitness absolutely do some gymnastic stuff but if you want to be competitive in your sport dont bother with it.
i'm a weightlifter and i wouldnt bother doing something like a front lever or a handstand pushup, i have more carryover form a pushpress or a pendlay row.
a powerlifter would benefit more from a bench variation than a planche ( even if he could use some lever variation to strengthen the shoulder joint and scapula retraction).
also i feel isometrics are very taxing on the nervous system and impede recovery, that's the main reason why i wouldnt do stuff like planches or body levers as a non gymnast athlete.
>>35425762
Still a bit out from the one arm chin up, which is when I will post. 1.5 weeks, hopefully.
