I don't see any routine help thread, so here's it.
Post your routines for feedback, or give constructive criticism if you're a veteran.
I'll be trying to help as much as possible! <3
>Recommended program for beginners: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program
>Recommended reads: Starting Strength 3rd Ed.; Practical Programming.
>Basic rules-of-thumb:
4-6 reps for main barbell lifts
6-8 reps for ancillary barbell lifts
8-12 reps for assistance dumbbell/cable lifts
1-3 sets for 100% rep-max
3-5 sets for 80-90% rep-max
3 days per week: full-body routines (AxBxAxx BxAxBxx or AxAxAxx)
4 days per week: Pull-push-legs + fullbody (PPLxFxx or LPPxFxx or FxPPLxx etc)
5 days per week: Pull-push-legs + upper-lower (PPLxULx or ULxPPLx etc)
Routines with no deadlifts: upper-lower splits
Work every muscle group at least 2 times per week
Push = chest/front & lateral delts/triceps
Pull = back/biceps/rear delts
Legs = legs/posterior chain
>Just because an exercise involves pulling, doesn't mean it belongs on pull day. Divide it accordingly to the correct muscle group. For example, lateral raises belong on push day.
These are just basic rules-of-thumb!
Remember that you are supposed to have fun and enjoy doing your routine, so do the stuff that you enjoy doing!
Just wrote this up going abbreviated since I haven't lifted consistently in a couple of years.
AxBxCxx
A:Deadlift5x5
Press5x5
B:Bulgarian Split Squat 5x5/5
Row5x5
C: Kettlebell C&J 2x3:00 AMRAP
Kettlebell Snatch 2x3:00 AMRAP
I know the general workload is low but Im coming back from a bunch of overtraining injuries so Im trying to be careful this time.
Tuesday
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
2x overhand DL 2x5
Seated ohp 3x8
Chin ups 3x5
Thursday
Squat 3x5
Ohp 3x5
Mixed grip DL 1x5
Incline bench 3x8
Chin ups 3x5
Saturday
Bench 3x5/ ohp 3x5
Chin ups 3x5
Db ohp 3x8/ db bench 3x8
Db row 3x8
Skull crusher 3x10
Db curl 3x10
>>35210878
Is SS + Accessory Lifts pretty much the best routine there is? I don't think you really need anything else.
>>35210878
For 4-days, why no Upper/Lower splits? Are they good/bad/indifferent to anything else?
who /sheiko/ here?
A:
Bench 3x6
Row 3x6
OHP 3x6
Pullups 3xF
Dips 3xF
B:
Squat 3x6
Deadlift 3x5
Curls 3x8
Chinups 3xF
Leg Raises 3xF
ABxAxBx
>>35211872
I've found Upper/Lower splits to be really great, except that I found my deadlift suffers doing that sort of split. I'm so gassed after Squats that doing deadlifts I cant perform at 100% intensity.
But my favorite routines are push/pull (not ppl) with quads and abs on push, hams and calves on pull, and upper/lower splits.
Every routine though has a down side, to their great benefits so it's upto you, your goals, and your preferences.
>>35211853
As an intermediate, advanced, elite trainee, you'll need different ways to periodize your lifts so you keep making progress, but a 3 day program with accessories is a good way of making gains.
Can someone tell me how good the reddit P/P/L split is for a beginner? What would you change on it?
PULL
Deadlifts 1x5+/Barbell rows 4x5, 1x5+ (alternate, so if you did deadlifts on Monday, you would do rows on Thursday, and so on)
3x8-12 Pulldowns OR Pullups OR chinups
3x8-12 seated cable rows OR chest supported rows
5x15-20 face pulls
4x8-12 hammer curls
4x8-12 dumbbell curls
PUSH
4x5, 1x5+ bench press/4x5, 1x5+ overhead press (alternate in the same fashion as the rows and deadlifts)
3x8-12 overhead press/3x8-12 bench press (do the opposite movement: if you bench pressed first, overhead press here)
3x8-12 incline dumbbell press
3x8-12 triceps pushdowns SS 3x15-20 lateral raises
3x8-12 overhead triceps extensions SS 3x15-20 lateral raises
LEGS
2x5, 1x5+ squat
3x8-12 Romanian Deadlift
3x8-12 leg press
3x8-12 leg curls
5x8-12 calf raises
>>35212075
>except that I found my deadlift suffers doing that sort of split. I'm so gassed after Squats that doing deadlifts I cant perform at 100% intensity.
If you don't mind progressing only once a week you can go with a backsquat/dl variation on one lower day and then deadlift/lighter squat variation the next.
>Goal
Need to get into shape and stay fast as I'm enlisting, not trying to get big.
A slash indicates super set.
>Monday
1.5 miles
Rest
1.5 miles, doing 60/120s
>Wednesday
Bench 5x5 (every month I add a 3x3, 1x1 to finish)
Barbell OHP 3x5/Dumbbell Shrugs 3x10
Barbell PP 3x5/Dumbbell Flies 3x10
Triceps Dips 3x10/Dumbbell Calf raises 3x10
Snatch 5x5
Back (The only kind) Squat 5x5
>Friday
See Monday
>Saturday
Good Mornings 3x10
Lat-Pull-downs 3x10/Barbell Row 3x10
Reverse Curl (Preacher, EZ Bar) 3x10/Seated Row 3x10
Curl (Preacher EZ Bar) 3x10/Pull Ups 3xF (usually 3 reps)
Clean and Press 5x5
Sumo Dead-lift 5x5
>>35212160
And before you ask, I added the oly lifts recently just for fun as I got bored of my old routine.
>>35212132
That is very true. Next time I do a U/L split I think i'll do that.
>>35212160
>Need to get into shape and stay fast as I'm enlisting
enlisting in the military? If so, some of the requirements are push ups/ pull ups/ sit ups or planks. You should be doing some of those to prep for enlisting.
I feel like with all the high intensity volume you have on your wednesday/ friday days doing 5x5 bench 3x5 ohp 3x5 push press, 5x5 snatches, 5x5 squats is a lot for your body to handle and recover from. If you're seeing results then keep with it, but if you arent you could lower the sets on a couple exercises or something. For example, 3x5 bench, 3x5 ohp, 3x6-8 push press, 3x5 squats 3x5 snatches. Just my opinion though, i've always found it easier to add weight to the bar when I have 3 or less sets, compared to 4 or 5.
>>35212216
>You should be doing some of those to prep for enlisting.
Fair point.
Last I tested myself was 3 months ago and I could meet the requirements with ease.
The thing that I might fail at is the 1.5 mile, 11:11 is the time and I regularly hit ~10:30 every time now.
I think I am seeing results for most of them but I do see your point, my Squat has begun to plateau so maybe 5x5 is still too much. Thanks.
>>35212089
Bump. No one seems to want to mention this routine. Is it cause it's (reddit pls go)
>>35212553
That P/P/L is meant to be add weight to the main lifts and last set is AMRAP
should i do icf 5x5? not sure if i should do it cus it takes alot of time.
>>35212706
SS instead http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program
SL is shit, icf is just polished shit.
>>35212738
why is SL shit?
>>35212877
5 sets of 5 is not optimal for a beginner. You will only make 80-90% of the strength gains you would with 3x5.
http://desustorage.org/fit/thread/35061119/#35061468
>>35212553
>As is, you're training legs twice per week,
True, but it's like half of a leg day on each day to counter the lack of a leg day.
A full body twice a week? Wouldn't doing harder isolation give results results?
>How long have you been lifting?
1 Year anniversary for set exercise, but that was just bodyweight stuff.
Started lifting end of February. According to Symmetricstrength I am about where I should be for the lifts that I have been doing for a while.
>>35212738
ive been doing candito's linear program is it any good? i heard lots of good things about it but in his program you up the weight every week and not every workout
>>35210878
Holy fucking shit, this man is a minster... He just ohp'd what I weigh!
>>35213149
If you're a beginner, you should profit from your increased ability to recover from workouts. You'll make gains on Candito LP, but slower than what you could get on SS.
I believe in Candito's program it says something about how it's suitable for people new to serious training, but not really for people completely new to lifting.
>>35210942
>a bunch of overtraining injuries
>5x5 deadlifts
are you SERIOUS
>>35213201
>muh CNS
Dumbbell only routine since its all I have access to atm
AxBxAxx
BxAxBxx
A
DB bench press 3x12
Followed by push ups x1 set to failure
Bent over row 3x12
DB squats 3x12
B
Overhead Press 3x12
Stiff legged deadlift 1x12
DB squats 3x12
Pull ups 3x6-12
Progression: When I can do max reps for all sets with good form I up the weight slightly.
Is this alright? Don't hold back on the criticism.
I'm cutting atm if that helps. Then when I bulk ill probably go find a proper gym and do something similar to the above but with access to heavier weights for progression
>>35210878
>be /plg/
>always found /owg/ interesting for athleticism
>see Klokov OHP 162kg
what the fuck.
>>35212043
Hated the volume so much i've split the days into each primary movement. Got to get on dat winter bulk though, so I suppose the volume is awesome for that.
>>35213184
This makes sense to me, I ran SL5x5 for about 4 months, tested my maxes and then jumped to Candito Linear.
>>35213221
i mean if all you have is dumb bells this will do the job.
i'd add in some lateral raises and maybe some reverse flies if your rowing proves to be insufficient for your rear delts.
you should be doing pullups twice a week every week i feel or even three times with one day being chinups. depending on how heavy your dumbbells are you might get more mileage out of pullups than you would any other exercise. that is if your dbs are not heavy enough to progress much.
>>35213226
Klokov trains way more stuff than just oly. He also deadlifts and bench presses.
>>35213277
Yeah, seen him deadlift before and makes sense to train for his pulls. Bench though?
>>35213269
what are the main lifts? i only know bench, deadlifts and squats
every day
ramping sets
try to add reps, increase weight at target reps
squat x4-8
push press x3-6
clean pull / high pull / rack pull x3
military press / back press 10-15 / 6-9 / 3-5
chin ups / 1 hand pulldown 10-15 / 6-9 / 3-5
dips / 1 hand chest press 10-15 / 6-9 / 3-5
cable pushdown 10-15
cable curl 10-15
upper chest cable fly 20-30
arnold press / lu raises 20-30
The only equipment I have is a treadmill, an axe, and some wood that needs chopping. I can't afford any real equipment.
How do I get /fit/?
>>35213268
Thanks for the feedback anon! I'll consider doing more pull ups. Might add chin ups to work out A. For now my rows seem to be alright for my rear felts but I might dedicate an extra day in my typical week to accessory work and do reverse flies anyway along with crunches etc
>>35213328
Those three and OHP.
>>35213201
Really? 5x5 deads once a week is too much? Im not even doing heavy squats on that routine, hence the split squats. (I dont have access to a rack for a while)
>>35213442
pullups on trees, dips on logs, pushups on logs, chop dat wood, wood carry, log lifts.
nature is your gym nigga embrace it
>>35213509
That guy is an idiot but 5x5 isn't a great rep range for deadlifts. 3x3 or 2x5-6 would be better.
You can do fuck all intensity with 5 sets of deadlifts
>>35213564
Do 1x40 for maximum gains.
>>35213851
I got great progress with 15 x 1. You feel like death for two days afterwards though
>>35213855
You rest-pausing or just doing 15 sets with long down time? I like rest-pausing my deads for higher reps in order to mix it up. I feel like throwing up afterwards but its so good.
who /bodybuilding/ here?
I'm doing cube kingpin/boss and I love it, I hit a 335 and 355X2 bench yesterday on the program
>>35213946
>cube kingpin
that looks fucking brutal. grats on your bench tho
>>35213981
Thanks. I thought since I did inverted jugg this woukd be cake but fucking squat day is like 10 different sets on 3 different types of squats. It's so damn much lol
>>35212923
Power Cleans; its like doing mental gymnastics, for me. I'll still probably do rows 3x5 while practicing power cleans with the bar only.
Didn't realize that 5x5 was literally a meme; that its actually 3x5. Thanks anon.
>>35210878
Mine goes AxBxAxx then BxAxBxx then the pattern repeats.
Monday: Squat 5x5
Benchpress 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
1-2 miles HIIT
Wednesday: Squat 5x5
OHP 5x5
Deadlift 1x5
1-2 miles HIIT
Friday: Squat 5x5
Benchpress 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
1-2 miles HIIT
>>35213946
what do u think of PHAT strongtoast
>>35213442
The wood doesn't need chopping it needs to be built into a power rack
>>35214042
Power cleans are over exaggerated in their complexity. Clean and jerk and snatches are 20x more complicated. Reminder power cleans are 5x3 and suppose to act as a deadlift variant, not a row
>>35214229
>benchpress and bb row on the same day
Wtf mehdi
>>35214507
And what is wrong with that?
Monday:
Squats 5x5
Bench 5x5
Hang cleans 5x3
hanging leg raises: 3x15
Wednesday:
Pause Squats 2x5
OHP/ Bench 3x5
Back extensions 5x10
Chinups 3xF
Friday:
Squat 1x5
Bench 1/2/3 RM
Deadlift 1x5
Chest dips 3x8
Barbell curls 3x10
Skullcrushers 3x10
Day 1:
Squat 5/3/1
Front squat 5x5
RDL 4x8
Weighted Decline Crunches 5x10
Day 2:
Bench Press 5/3/1
CGBP 5x8
DB Row 5x10
DB Pullover 5x10
DB Bench 5x10
Day 3:
Deadlift 5/3/1
Cleans 5x3
Snatch grip deadlifts 4x8
Hanging leg raises 5x12
Day 4:
OHP 5/3/1
Weighted pullups 2x6
BW pullups 2x10-12
Incline DB Bench 5x10
Lateral Raises/front raises/rear delt flys 5x12
My presses are weaker than my pulls/squats.
>>35213870
45-60 seconds rest at 95% plus intensity as outlined by Jamie Lewis
>>35214554
>Front squat 5x5
Eiyher change to 5x3 or do heavy front squat static holds imo sets of 5 on front squats are way more taxing on your core and upper back than on your legs
>>35214554
>Benching once a week
What's your goal?
>>35212073
If you do rows and pullups on A, then curl the very next day with no rest, you are not training biceps optimally.
>>35214616
Not him but bench isn't that important if you aren't a powerlifter. I do it twice a week because I like it but once a week is fine for most people
>>35214653
That's why I asked him about his goals, it just seems strange to me to do a program focused on the big 3 and only bench once a week. Of course no lift is "important" unless you have a specified goal and that lift will help you get there
pls critique
day 1:
squat 531, first set last 1x8
Row for 15 mins
Day 2:
Press @ 80% 3x3 - increase sets by 1 each week until 6x3
press 1x10 @ 70%
rows 3x10, facepulls 3x20
day 3:
Deadlift 531, 1x8 first set last
rows 500 m as fast as possible
day 4:
press @ 75% 2x5
press starts @ 105%, 3x3
dips 3xmax
facepulls 3x20
>>35214669
>it just seems strange to me to do a program focused on the big 3 and only bench once a week
He is doing 5/3/1. One day for each of the big three and one for ohp. Pretty standard routine really
>>35214686
Horrible balance between pushing and pulling. Do you have any idea what you are doing?
>>35214701
>what are facepulls 3x20
>what is rowing on a rowing machine
>>35214713
>what is rowing on a rowing machine
>I don't need to train legs because I go jogging
3x20 facepulls are not a replacement for heavy back work even if heavy back work and facepulls together are betterthan just heavy back work
>>35214686
Add some bench/dumbell presses and pullups/chinups. Shoulder imbalances goes both ways.
>>35214692
>He is doing 5/3/1. One day for each of the big three and one for ohp. Pretty standard routine really
Standard for what kind of training? This is why I asked him about his goals, 5/3/1 is passable/good for some people and bad for strength sport training.
>>35214732
i understand, but right now im trying to bring up my grossly underdeveloped pressing strength.
>>35214738
>Standard for what kind of training
I think 5/3/1 is great for anything except powerlifting. Even if juggernaut method is similar and better
>>35214761
Neglecting back is more likely to slow down pressing strength progression than speed it up honestly
>>35214778
meh, ive found that hitting my back with heavy deadlifts and some moderately heavy high rep rows, coupled with lots of rear delt work has been helping my pressing strength alot. ive done lots of heavy back work in the past and i foudn it just took my energy away form pressing
>>35214778
>Neglecting back is more likely to slow down pressing strength progression than speed it up honestly
This. Forward rolled shoulders and weak back muscles will absolutely destroy your progress and fuck with your all your presses(especially bench press).
>>35214802
>ive done lots of heavy back work in the past and i foudn it just took my energy away form pressing
3 sets of chinups after pressing on day 4 aren't going to take energy away from pressing. You are just making yourself more likely to get injured, Ruining your posture and preventing yourself from having a strong back for no reason
>>35214822
i guess youre right about day 4. however, my posture isnt going to get ruined if i emphasize pressing and de emphasive pulling. i have a 375 deadlift and can do weighted chins with 75 lbs for reps, which is much better compared to my 125lb ohp.
coming back from ACL reconstruction so leg work will be at lightweight for a while until im full comfortable.
currently cutting due to weight put on during injury then planning to clean bulk (first time lifting properly - usually played sports for fitness)
is this good enough in general though?
>>35214841
>my posture isnt going to get ruined if i emphasize pressing and de emphasive pulling
>>35214863
Doing an unspecified amount of reps while recovering for an injury seems like a bad idea. Pick a set and rep scheme and stick with it for a while
pls critique f.a.m.s
>>35214547
>>35214901
its a weird variation of tm that will work fine. I wish avoiding the wordfilter would be an autoban senpaitachi
I lift MTThFSa
But on the weekdays I can only be in the gym for about 40 minutes, which is usually only enough time for about 12 working sets. What is a good routine I can fit in this time frame?
>>35214937
Does weekdays include friday? Candito 6 week should work well
>>35214948
Yeah, so the only workout I can go long is Saturday
>>35214899
well im about 7 months post op and back to light running and can do these exercises with light weight or bodyweight for 3 sets of 10. not planning to push too hard straight away but now i'm keen to start getting mass and strength
>>35214951
Candito 6 week is supposed to take 45 minutes to an hour and is 5 days. You may have to drop a set here and there but it should be fine
>>35214952
>well im about 7 months post op
Lewd.
I'd say stick to a rep range to minimise form breakdown for the first while regardless. just pick one and stick to it.
>>35214998
lol
ok thanks man, will do
>>35212923
There is the cutting version of icf which replaces main lifts with 3x5 and 2x8 for accessory lifts
>>35215136
Why not just do ss?
>>35215150
icf has accessory lifts
R8
lifting for strength and mass
Monday: Lower
Deadlift 2x5
Squat 3x8
RDL 2x8
Tuesday: Upper
Bench Press 4x4-6
Weighted Pull-ups 3x6
Seated DB Press 3x8
DB Row 3x8
Weighted Dips 2x8
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Upper
OHP 4x4-6
Barbell Row 3x8
DB Bench 3x8
Pull-ups 4xf
Weighted Dips 2x8
Friday: Lower
Squat 5x5
RDL 4x8
Saturday: Upper
Bench Press 4x4-6
Weighted Pull-ups 3x6
OHP 3x8
DB Row 3x8
Weighted Dips 2x8
Sunday: Rest
>inb4 don't write your own routine
Guys, today I did only 70x4 BP instead of 70x5 in 3 sets. Is it bad signal? Doin GSLP 2 months.
>>35215419
Weight in kilos.
*fix*
so many people are calling ss a meme yet i also see alot of people praising ss im not sure what to believe in anymore.
>>35215662
They're all beginners anyway so why would you care what they say?
>>35215883
I'm >>35215336
thanks, thought I would get shit for it like the brosplitters get shit.
I've never done a wide grup pull-up set in my entire life, just outside shoulder width.
I do lots of isolations after the compounds, was just too lazy to list them too.
Curls, triceps extensions, lateral raises, sometimes some grip work etc.
Is it nice?
Workout 1 – Push
Bench Press 3 X 5 – 7
Seated Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 X 6 – 8
30 deg. Incline Dumbbell Press 3 X 8 – 10
Side Lateral Raises 2 X 10 – 12
Triceps Pressdowns 2 X 8 – 10
Overhead Triceps Extension 2 X 8 – 10
Workout 2 – Pull
Bent-over Row 3 X 5 – 7
Pull Ups 3 X 6 – 8
Barbell Shrugs 3 X 8 – 10
Face Pulls 2 X 10 – 12
Barbell Curl 2 X 8 – 10
Dumbbell Hammer Curl 2 X 8 – 10
Workout 3 – Legs/Abs
Squats 3 X 6 – 8
Romanian Deadlifts 2 X 8 – 10
Leg Press 2 X 10 – 12
Leg Curl 2 X 10 – 12
Calf Raise 4 X 8 – 10
Hanging Leg Raise 2 X 10 – 15
Been lifting for 3.5 months now doing SS with some added accessories since I have alot of free time this semester (less classes, easier classes).
My right hammy has had this searing sharp pain all this week. Hurt so much that I skipped workout B yesterday all together. Feels alot better to day but I think it came from doing Squats and diddlies 90% each. 3 times a week. This is my current routine but want to switch to PPLxPPx
AxBx
Workout A:
Squat 5x5
Chest press 5x5
OHP 3x5
DB tricep 2for each arm x 10
DB Bicep 2for each arm x 10
Chest fly 3x10
Dips 3x10
Workout B:
Squats 5x5
Diddly 2x5
Pendlay Row 5x5
DB shrugs 3x10
Lateral Raises 3x10
Leg Press 3x10
DB Lunges
Abs (both days)
Plank 2x 1 minute
Side bends 3 each side x10
Russian twist 3x16
Leg Raises 3x15
Advice?
Candito 6Week Bench here.
3rd week in.
feeling like 3x20 twice for isolation accessories is bs. anyone else?
Whats a good Tricep accessory. I do lying tricep extensions but I don't feel safe getting the weight up, and I think I saw it can cause elbow tendinitis.
What do you do for your tris.
>>35210878
Behold the greatest strength and conditioning program ever crafted by human hands. I’m just running this for 2 months to get my maxes up a little and get my run times down. Mostly training for General Physical Preparedness but secondarily I want to look good. I’ll lift 5 or 6 days a week depending on how I feel so the 4 days isn't the whole week it’s just an arbitrary length. Any input is more than welcome.
Day 1
Mile Run (For Time)
A-Box Jumps: 3 reps
B-Front Squat: Work up to 3RM, body weight max reps, 1 plate max reps
A-Romanian Deadlifts: 3x5-8
B-Hanging Leg Raises: 3x8-12
Day 2
Long Run (For Distance)
Bench Press: Work up to 3RM, body weight max reps, 1 plate max reps
Dips: 3xMAX
A-Close Grip Bench: 3x5-8
B-Side Raises: 3x8-15
Day 3
Mile Run (For Time)
Power Cleans: Work up to 1RM, only one failure allowed
Deadlift: Work up to 3RM, Body Weight max reps
Pullups: 3xMAX
Barbell Row: 3x5-8
A-Curls: 3x10-12
B-Shrugs: 3x8-12
Day 4
Long Run (For Distance)
Overhead Press: Work up to 3RM, 95 pounds max reps, 85 pounds max reps
Incline Bench Press: 4x5-8
A-Chest Flyes: 3x8-12
B-Overhead Tricep Extensions:3x8-12
Face Pulls: 3x8-12
>>35217114
the A/B exercises are supersets, forgot to mention.
I do each muscle every 48 hours and try to progress on the squat, bench, chin ups, deadlift and ohp. I usually do upper/lower, but yesterday I skipped and decided to do full body today. So I did this
Squat 3x5
Leg Extension 3x8
Chin Ups 3xF
Bench Press 3x5
*The gym owner does not allowed me to do powerlifting style bench, it was my first week in this gym so I dropped the weight. I got a lot of shoulder pain in the last set. Ironically, that's the "safe" way of benching.
Kroc Rows 3x10
Db Bench Press 3x10
Bb Curls 3x10
*Shoulder pain got really bad and I decided to go home, but I aimed to do ohp, stiff deads (gym doesn't allow deadlifts), triceps extensions and face pulls.
It's more of a log than a routine, but really, anyone a little experienced should know that you can't follow a fixed routine everyday, there are going to be different circumstances and stuff.
>>35215336
>RDL
calves?
SS with pull ups on B day. Am i doing right?
>>35217627
>A-day
3x5 sqat
3x5 BP
3x5 DL
>B-day
3x5 sqat
3x5 OHP
5x3 Power Clean
3xF Rubber band assisted pull ups
>>35217627
I forget... 1 month into lifting
Can someone help me pls, i would like to train as often as possible, but only from monday till friday.
My stats :
60kg squat
55kg ohp
85kg bench
140kg deadlift
195cm 93kg
Could i do 5/3/1 with accessoires?
>>35217838
Do 5/3/1 for the four main lifts then make the fifth day a "Lagging body parts day" where you do body building style accessories for weaker body parts or to balance your physique. If you're interested in the idea look up cube method which is a power lifting program with a literal "bodybuilding day" but it's still only 4 days a week because it doesn't have an OHP day like 5/3/1
Maybe want to add some GHR's or bb glute bridges.
Not sure whether to add them to push or pull day. Glute bridges seem like a push, but doesn't really seem right to do them the day before deadlifts.
>>35210944
Can i get yalls opinions on this please?
>>35219516
How long have you been lifting, what are your numbers, and what's your goal?
>>35218197
I would put them on your B day so that you have a rest day between them and your front squats and deadlifts.
>>35219613
Off and on for a little while
135 bench
195 squat
105 ohp
235 dl
And im trying to increase strength muscle and overall fitness. Im doing cardio and core on some off days and work at a carwash standing the whole time so thats why im not squatting 3x a week, i want to give my knees some rest
>>35220323
It looks pretty good but I think doing something like this would be a little more optimal, move the Thursday deadlift to Saturday so you have the same volume of leg work but spread out more evenly throughout the week, also change the 1x5 to romanian deadlift to get a more balanced hamstring and glute development. As far as grip for deadlift goes don’t program in overhand and mixed grip, just use overhand for warmup sets and anything you can handle for working sets and when it gets too heavy switch to mixed grip. Also on Thursday I would add in some face pulls just for better shoulder development and keeping them healthy with all the benching. Otherwise looks good.
Tuesday
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
DL 2x5
Seated ohp 3x8
Chin ups 3x5
Thursday
Squat 3x5
Ohp 3x5
Incline bench 3x8
Chin ups 3x5
Facepulls 3x10
Saturday
Bench 3x5/ ohp 3x5
Chin ups 3x5
Db ohp 3x8/ db bench 3x8
Db row 3x8
Skull crusher 3x10
Db curl 3x10
Romanian DL 2x5
>>35220448
Oh, also you might want to increase the volume just a tad in the near future if you feel you are recovering from the workouts or maybe if you plateau.
>not doing 5x5 deds 3x week
pussies
>>35220448
>>35220464
Thanks for the advice man, ill try this version nexf week since this week is already over, and yeah i was thinking about putting in some rear delt work but didn't know where to put it
>>35210878
trappy can you please just fucking trip already? you're getting banned all the fucking time and these threads could use some help.
Would be great to filter this thread to just your and strongtoast's posts. So stop being a bitch about it.
>>35220512
Nice babyweights you're lifting there
>>35214892
>5-8reps on power clean
We crossfit nao
>>35220888
Meant for
>>35214863
>>35217838
>60kg squat
>55kg ohp
either you have humongous shoulders or your legs are weak af
>>35220683
I guess this was bound to happen eventually...
Weird to use an username on 4chan, but I guess it's helpful.
>>35217088
Closegrip bench press, dips, front dips, kickbacks, pushdowns...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTsNG5c568k
Skullcrushers won't cause you elbow tendinitis, though, unless you are prone to it.
>>35216897
I also don't like it. I don't think it will matter if you do it in the usual 8-12 rep range.
>>35217627
>>35217775
That's literally the SS program, so you're fine. http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program
>>35218197
"Push pull legs" is just a simple way of saying chest/triceps/front-lateral-delts, back/posterior-delts/biceps, legs/posterior-chain.
You don't actually do exercises based on whether or not they are a "push" or a "pull", that's what people who don't actually understand what PPL is do.
If you're only doing Push-Pull, do not separate your squats and deadlifts into different but consecutive days. They work the same muscles and belong in either the same day, or with a day of rest in between.
Deadlifts belong on pull day, not because it's a "pull", since it's technically also a "push", but because it works your legs/posterior-chain/back.
So Squats belong on "pull" day as well, to be optimal.
Glutes exercises also belong on the deadlift day.
For your routine, it's fine to squat on A since you don't deadlift on B. But I would move the squats from C to D, so that you don't deadlift with unrecovered legs/posterior-chain.
>>35217114
Looks good. A bit intense but I guess that's your goal.
Adding chinups to day 1 might be a good idea, it will increase your back/biceps strength and hypertrophy, as they will have extra 48 hours of repair/adaptation/growth, and it won't affect day 3 since there's enough time to recover.
>only one failure allowed
Kek careful with the gym police!
>>35216704
It is nice.
Regular deadlifts are more important than variations, though. Would do 1x5 DL instead of those 2x8-10 RDL.
>>35210944
Looks perfectly fine.
>>35216823
Try changing the squats to 3x5, might help prevent any further injuries.
Would remove the leg press from day B and add in inclined bench, since you have no chest/front-delts exercise that day.
I also suggest trying cable crossovers instead of dumbbell flys. They have a longer range of motion, allow for a stronger "squeeze", and are overall safer for the shoulders/pecs.
>>35215419
Everyone has bad days. Just rest and eat well, and you will be fine next workout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVdSRO8xtGM
>>35217171
Wtf, change gyms. Those are some pretty retarded restrictions.
Retract your scapulae during the bench, it helps avoid shoulder injuries.
Also would suggest you avoid leg extensions, they are terrible for your kness (and knee problems are no fun).
>>35221249
My legs are weak af
>>35223357
ty trappy ^^
>>35223272
>"Push pull legs" is just a simple way of saying chest/triceps....
Thanks for the tips. You have some valid points.
I don't really want to do a PPL, because I prefer training 4 times a week and not 3 or 6. Or would you suggest a PPL where I do ABxCAxx BCxABxx etc.?
I did frontsquats and DL's on the same day for a while, but I didn't think that was optimal either.
Any suggestions?
Tuesday:
3x5 Bench / 3x5 Military alt.
3x5 Pendlay / 1x5 Deadlift alt.
5x10 Incline / DB military alt.
5x10 Hammer curls / Chin-ups alt.
5x10 LTE
Thursday:
3x5 Bench / 3x5 Military alt.
3x5 Pendlay / 1x5 Deadlift alt.
5x10 Incline / DB military alt.
5x10 Hammer curls / Chin-ups alt.
5x10 Ab-Rollouts
Friday:
3x5 Bench / 3x5 Military alt.
3x5 Pendlay / 1x5 Deadlift alt.
5x10 Incline / DB military alt.
5x10 Hammer curls / Chin-ups alt.
5x10 LTE
Rehab:
5x10 Face pulls
Progression is 2.5kg a session to 3x5 lifts.
Accessories progression is most likely every week or fortnight.
No squats cause I can't do them for a while.
Trappy do not respond I do not care for your advice.
Goals is strength and hypertrophy
>>35223786
goal*
>>35213149
Yea it's good but it's not optimal if you don't know shit about exercises. I started doing it 4 months after I started. I did ss first and main focus was learning how to have a decent form on bench, squat, dl and ohp
A:
4x5 Pull Ups
3x8 Ring Pull Ups (in a handstand like position)
3x Hanging for grip strength
3x12 Inverted rows (biceps grip)
3x12 Dips
Plank
3x12 Decline Push Ups
3x12 Bench dips
B:
4x5 Chin Ups
3x12 Push ups on parallel bars
3x8 Pisol Squats
3x12 Single bar push up / dip
3x12 Single bar leg raises
3x12 Wide push ups
3x12 Back raises
Everything done with a 7kg vest
>>35223663
Bump
>>35223663
bump
Mon:
squat 5x5
deadlift 2x3
reverse hyperextension 3xfailure with 20 kg plate
tue:
bench 3x5
bent over row 3x5
ohp 3x5
chinups 3x failure
thu:
deadlift 3x5
squat 3x3
front squat 3x10
fri: same as tuesday
>>35223932
why do you focus so much on pullups?
>>35223786
looks similar to mine>>35224073
except more volume
dont know if good or bad
>>35224079
>why do you focus so much on pullups?
I only do them in Routine A and the Ring Pull Ups are upside down. So it kind of targets different muscles. What else do you recommend?
>>35224142
SS ?
>>35224142
are you training to be a rock climber or gymnast or something?
>Goal
To get lean
>Monday
C25k
>Tuesday
10 min jog
StrongLifts 5x5 routine A
>Wednesday
c25k
>Thursday
10 min jog
StrongLifts 5x5 routine B
>Friday
C25k
>Saturday
10 min jog
StrongLifts 5x5 routine A
I'm weenie hut junior level, and a fatty.
>>35224247
No, just for overall strength / fitness. I am training in a forest though, not in a gym.
Tuesday:
3x5 Bench / 3x5 Military alt.
3x5 Pendlay / 1x5 Deadlift alt.
5x10 Incline / DB military alt.
5x10 Hammer curls / Chin-ups alt.
5x10 LTE
Thursday:
3x5 Bench / 3x5 Military alt.
3x5 Pendlay / 1x5 Deadlift alt.
5x10 Incline / DB military alt.
5x10 Hammer curls / Chin-ups alt.
5x10 Ab-Rollouts
Friday:
3x5 Bench / 3x5 Military alt.
3x5 Pendlay / 1x5 Deadlift alt.
5x10 Incline / DB military alt.
5x10 Hammer curls / Chin-ups alt.
5x10 LTE
Rehab:
5x10 Face pulls
Progression is 2.5kg a session to 3x5 lifts.
Accessories progression is most likely every week or fortnight.
No squats cause I can't do them for a while.
>>35223645
Try this one.
I don't train regularly but I go 2-4 times a week depends on work.
A:
Back Squat 3x5
Front Squat 3x5
Bench Press 3x5
Incline Benchpress/Weighted Dips 3x8-12
Triceps Extentions 2x8-12
B:
OHP 3x5
Face Pulls/Lateral Raises 3x8-12
Deadlift 3x5
Pendlay Rows/Cable Rows 3x5
Chin ups 3x8-12
That's about what I do, sometimes I do both exercises with "/". It's hard for me to do a linear progress program like SS or SL because I'm not always home during the week. Thoughts?
>>35223663
I suggest you alternate between pendlay and chinups, since they are horizontal/vertical pulls. The deadlift is different type of exercise, with a much higher focus on your legs/posterior chain.
I'd say it's optimal to deadlift as much as possible, since you're not doing squats. That way, your legs aren't gonna slack behind.
I do suggest you alternate between sumo and conventional, or even try deficit DLs. This is because sumo and deficit DLs are harder on your quads. If you only ever pull conventional, your quads can be quite underdeveloped compared to your other muscles. This usually is not an issue with people who also squat, since squats are quad-dominant exercises. But in your case, you gotta alternate to have balanced muscle growth.
You will have to eventually lower the bench and OHP progression to 1kg per session. It's gonna become hard to add 2.5kg every time to those lifts.
>>35223786
Upper days look completely fine.
For the lower days, you are doing too much overlapping stuff.
Here's my suggestions, you can try and see if you like it or not
On day B:
Remove the leg curls. You are already doing a huge amount of volume for your hamstrings.
Add pistol or tuck squats. They have a big focus on your quads, and are the best exercises for your hip abductors (glutes min/med, TFL and Sartorius) - they do a lot of work when you are standing on a single leg.
On day D:
Remove the glute ham raise instead of the leg curl, and do the one-legged squats I mentioned.
I would also remove the glute bridges for this day, and add in sissy squats. They are great for quads and calves development. The name is funny, but it's actually a pretty good exercise.
>>35224073
Looks fine. The squat and deadlift volume is pretty high, usually people aren't able to progress very well with that much volume. Most of the time, progression is faster with 3x5 instead of 5x5 (programs that include 5x5 have it on 80-90% of the maximum workload). But this varies from person to person
>>35224926
Thanks, will look into it. Seems very heavy to do 2 variations of squats and 2 variations of DL's on the same day tho.
>>35225096
>Upper days look....
So would you suggest doing the glute bridges only on day B and only doing leg curls on day D?
I'm also not sure wheter I should start with lower or upper, both options have some pros/cons.
>>35225152
That's just an example. There's no real "cookie-cutter solution", since everyone has different genetics and can handle different volume, intensity, frequency, etc.
Take that one as a "template" and build your own routine based on what you feel like you can handle, and what exercises you like doing the most.
>>35225910
Yeah, something like that. The point is, isolation work for the lower body isn't as necessary as for the upper-body, specially not so many overlapping exercises and at such high volumes like you're doing.
This is because the lower-body has relatively very few muscles, and they are almost all huge ones that like to work together almost always.
Most people like starting with upper-body stuff because it's less tiring. Lower-body stuff will have you handle way way heavier weights and can add a lot more fatigue.
>>35226699
You never mailed me.... You're mean.
>>35217193
>>35223357
About those restrictions, I will only attend this gym for one month and I'm going to talk about my bench form with the gym owner on Monday. So my gains won't be killed. Also, deadlifting here is a fucking hell anyways, they have olympic plates (so it fits the smith machine) but 10kg barbells, the plates run freely on the bar, so I do stiff deads because at least you don't have to start from the floor on each rep.
As for the leg extensions, I don't lockout on them and they work fine for me, I'd rather do front squats, but I'm afraid that one of their polo shirt instructors would bitch about it, and really, I don't lift enough to argue with them (but at least I lift more than they do, with a better form too).
>>35227185
sorry, I quoted wrong. I wanted to quote this guy >>35223357
fuck cellphones
Upper:
Bench press: a lot
Pullups: 3xF
Incline db press: 3x8
Hammerstrength row: 3x8-12
Lateral raise: 3x12-15
curls/tricep superset: 4x12-20
Lower1:
Deadlift: 3-5 x 1-5
front squat: 3-5x6-8
lunges:3x 20 steps
leg curls: 3x10-15
leg raises: 4xF
Lower2:
squat: 3-5x4-10
SLDL: 3-5x6
lunges:3x 20 steps
leg curls: 3x10-15
leg raises: 4xF
I do L1,U,x,U,L2,U,x repeat
>tfw 500lb deadlift but lmao 200lb bench press
I'm just throwing volume at my upper body and it seems to be working OK. Also been making some good deadlift gains because of all the rows
>>35210944
This one looks really good and I would like to try this one out. A few questions:
1. How would weight progression work?
2. What's the difference between DL vs mixed grip DL and seated OHP vs non seated OHP?
>>35224335
>training in a forest
Sounds very comfy
>>35227503
It's literally the best thing
>never have to wait for someone until he is finished
>can make noises and screams as much as I want
>enjoying the silence, fresh air and view when resting
What do people think about smolov Jr for bench?
I haven't been having great progress with madcow lately, so I've been thinking of using smolov Jr for bench alongside madcow. Thoughts?
I'm also considering doing Canditos 6-week program. Would that be more suited to an intermediate lifter?
>>35227764
Jelly desu, may good gains accompany your good vibes
can somebody please post the pic with the couch to 10k and the 100 pushup programs pls
>>35227950
Yeah bro we should amalgamate
>>35227842
Powerliftingtowin has some good reviews on those.
www.powerliftingtowin.com/candito-6-week-strength-program Scroll to the bottom for the links to the other programs.
>>35226713
Mailed you what bby?
>>35227185
That sucks, but if it's just for a month you should be able to survive it kek.
The problem with the leg extension isn't really the locking out, but the pressure on the ACL and the lack of hamstring activation to balance the stress on the joint.
It's not gonna instantly fuck your knee up, of course, but knee injuries are no fun so minimizing the risk of developing one is always the best option.
Do they have the leg press machine? You could use that one instead. If not, well, it's just a month. Shouldn't be much of an issue if any at all.
>>35227374
Not him, but answering your question #2:
Overhand-grip DL maximizes the development of your grip strength. It's the one you should use as much as possible, until you can't hold the bar anymore. Then you use the mixed grip.
The mixed grip actually gives you a weaker grip. However, it gives you a much more "balanced and secure" grip - as the opposing hands prevents the bar from "wanting to slip" in a single direction, as it does when you use double overhand. The bar wants to slip backwards from your main-hand, but is stopped by your supinated off-hand. The opposite also happens, i.e. the bar wants to slip forwards from your left hand, but is stopped by the pronated right hand.
Mixed grip, however, can develop muscular imbalance or even cause biceps tear if you're deadlifting very heavy weights.
The rule-of-thumb is, use double overhand until you can't hold the bar anymore, then mix the grip to finish the set.
About the press, candito has a small video talking about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxb_3nbx9r4
>>35228106
Thanks!
>A: Heavy Push
Push Press 6x3
Back Squat 6x3
Overhead Squat 6x6
Front Raise 6x6
>B: Heavy Pull
Pull Up 6x3
Front Squat 6x3
Axle Deadlift 3x3
Hammer Curl 6x6
>C: Light Push
Push Press 4x8
Back Squat 4x8
Overhead Squat 4x8
Front Raise 4x12
Skull Crusher 4x12
Push Up 4xf
>D: Light Pull
Pull Up 4x8
Front Squat 4x8
Axle Deadlift 4x8
Hammer Curl 4x12
Front Lever 4xf
Leg Raise 4xf
>AxBxCDx
bench only when there's someone i know i can trust in the gym
deadlift only when i'm at the other gym, which has smaller plates
do you think 8 reps is light enough?
>>35228106
I knew it! So I'll do seated dumbbell press on my press days instead of military.
P.S.: I am other anon
>>35228106
Is Candito natty. btw?
Been doing SL, need something new.
I'm currently 170 cm (5'7), 105 kg (231 lbs) age 25
current max are
Squat 5x5x110 kg (242 lbs)
Bp 5x5x80 kg (154 lbs)
Dl 1x5x100kg (220 lbs)
I need to lose weight, at least a good 20 kg.
I'm gonna start C25k running program. So I need a gym routine that will keep me as strong as possible (or even increase strength) whilst it's also calorie deficit friendly, I'm planning to eat 1.8k calories a day. I can hit the gym 7 days a week if necessary.
>>35228388
Why is that important?
>>35228471
Try the lighter-version of SS http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program
It's after the main one.
Or you could do Texas Method if your progression has slowed down.
If you wanna start something different, though, there are many PPL routines out there. This one >>35224926 and PHAT are some examples.
>>35228388
I honestly do think he is. Just good proportions, hard work, and amazing genetics, in my opinion.
But in the end, who knows.
>>35228280
Have you tried the Texas Method? It's one less day, but it's pretty much the best template for intermediate routines out there.
It's AxBxCxx, A being volume day (5x5 sets at 80-90%), B being light day (3x5 sets at 80-90%, lighter than A), C being PR day (1x5 PR attempt).
It's a template, as I said, so you can customize it to the exercises and goals you want, and add ancillary exercises.
The Practical Programming book has a lot of info on it, but you can also just google and there are plenty of sites explaining how it works in a succinct manner.
Bumping this up.
Monday:
Deadlift 5x5
Deadlift 5x10
Wide Grip Pullups 5x10
Tuesday:
Press 5x5
Press 5x10
Chin Ups 5x10
Thursday:
Squat 5x5
Squat 5x10
Leg Extensions 5x10
Friday:
Bench 5x5
Bench 5x10
Dips 5x10
>>35230534
A:
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
B:
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Power Clean 5x3
Chinups 3x5 (with weights) or 3xF (bodyweight)
AxBxAxx
BxAxBxx
Do this instead.
>>35230879
>he fell for the meme
is icf 5x5 a solid routine?
>>35230943
if you want to be a pudgy little manlet with shit arms yeah.
A – Chest and Tris
3X5 Bench Press
3X10 Incline DB Press
3X10 Cable Crossovers
3X8 Dips
3X12 Triceps Extensions
B – Back and Bis
3X8 Pullups
3X10 T-Bar Rows
3X10 Lat Pulldowns
3X10 DB Rows
3X12 Face Pulls
3X10 Hammer Curls
3X10 BB Curls
3X8 Chin Ups
C – Legs and Shoulders
3X5 Squat
3X10 Calf Raises
3X10 Hamstring Curl
3X5 OHP
3X10 Seated DB Press
3X12 Lateral Raises
ABCABCXX
Thinking about adding incline BB press to chest/tris... opinions?
>>35212043
> openoffice
Good work friend
>>35225096
is 5x5 too much volume when i squat for 3x3 on thursday?
>>35224073
Is lifting my backpack with added weight (doing shit like front squats, lawnmowers, pull-ups, some weird kind of dead lifts) in any way effective? Poor trash here, need advice with what to lift and how
>>35230943
No.
>>35231072
Training with such intense volume 6 days per week is not optimal for natty lifters. You just won't recover and grow/get stronger as much as if you were doing 4-5 days instead.
When it comes to the exercise selection, it's mostly fine. You don't need barbell incline bench if you are already doing DB one.
You are already doing both pullups and chinups on day B, no point in also doing lat pulldowns since it's just a worse version of those exercises.
OHP works your shoulders, triceps, and chest. Those are the same muscles used on the bench press. Usually splitting the routine like that is completely fine, but in your case you have a C day right before an A day, with no rest period in between. That means you will be benching with unrecovered muscles.
>>35232102
Pretty much every routine that has 5x5 does it either at 80-90% of the 5RM for the entire set, or does ramping sets like 50%->62.5%->75%->87.5%-100% instead of working at the same weight throughout the sets. Take the Texas Method, Juggernaut, 5/3/1, and Madcow 5x5 as examples.
It's not much volume since Texas Method does almost the exact same thing (but it's 1x5 on friday instead of 3x3).
But Texas Method has the 5x5 on monday at around 90% of the 5RM, instead of max effort.
>>35233388
Depends what you consider "effective". It can be a bit more effective than just doing bodyweight stuff, but it won't be as good as working in the gym with proper barbells and dumbbells - specially because you won't be able to add much weight to the backpack.
SL is a shit routine made by a marketing firm with not coaching knowledge whatsoever. It's aimed at couch potatoes. The website is full os shit like "the secrets to building muscle!". The routine is 5x5 at 100% throughout the entire set - NO OTHER PROGRAM DOES THAT. Every program that has 5x5 is either not 100% throughout the set, or the set is 80-90% across. By doing SL, you are choosing to have worse progression because of a meme routine that became famous because of marketing efforts.
SS is a world-renowned program made by an athlete and coach with over 3 decades of experience. The book is full of scientific and biomechanics information. The program has been written to maximize the gains for new lifters, having 3x5 sets across.
I'm being blunt here because I just woke up and am in a shitty mood, but the bottom-line is: SL is a marketing meme made by people with no idea how stuff works. SS is an optimal program with decades of experience and scientific knowledge behind it. Pick your choice.
>>35233991
That's the general consensus on SL, yeah.
I've been lifting for 6 months, 4 times a week and have never missed a day. I find it so fun and I really just want more. I want more to my routine. Or should I just keep it the same and not get burnt out? My primary reason in going is to lose weight.
Monday
5/3/1 Deadlift
5x10 Squat
3x10 Leg Lift
3x10 Sit Ups
Tuesday
5/3/1 OHP
5x10 Bench Press
3x15 Lat Pull Down
3x10 Shoulder Raises
3x10 Tricep workout
Thursday
5/3/1 Squat
5x10 Deadlift
3x10 Leg Lift
3x10 Sit Ups
21's x 3 Curls
Friday
5/3/1 Bench Press
5x10 OHP
3x15 Lat Pull Down
3x10 Chest Flys
3x10 Tricep
Also I do 20 mintues on the step machine after I'm done lifting each of those days. I get a good 1h - 1h 45min in the gym and I really enjoy it.
>tfw finally switch from novice routine to an U/L split with more volume
>tfw work up with forearm doms after my first heavy deadlift day since I'm used to just doing one heavy set of 5
Does this routine look good for fixing my poverty bench and keeping my squat/deadlift progressing nicely? I have my first powerlifting meet at the end of January and would like to hit a 950-1000 total at 163 lbs.
>>35210878
>4 days per week: Pull-push-legs + fullbody (PPLxFxx or LPPxFxx or FxPPLxx etc)
Jesus christ why didn't I think of this? Sounds genious for me
>Want to train PPL, but can't train six days in a row I tried.
>>35233991
Stronglifts is literally the same program except 5x5 instead of 3x5.
>>35233991
SS and SL are literally the same thing, except the choice to replace power cleans with rows and the option of additional volume.
>no other good program does 5x5
I can tell you're new to lifting, ever heard of sheiko?
5x5 for a novice is easy and beneficial, more volume, more muscle. It's as simple as that, a bigger muscle means you can lift more weight.
Where is the downside?
As you progress and come near to the end of your sessionly gains, 5x5 will become incredible you hard, but there is literally nothing stopping you from just doing 3x5 from then on out.
You've got to stop taking these programs at face value and make informed choices on self regulation depending on how you feel each session.
Can't do 5x5 that day? 3x5 will suffice.
Ross as a primary movement over power cleans is an interesting choice, I personally believe that power cleans may be the superior choice for a novice lifter, however if you're doing super strict Pendlay rows with no back movement then I do believe they are replaceable.
That's just my opinion, I am on edge about rows over power cleans.
The information o the 5x5 website is pretty cookie cutter, it's not great, but it ain't bad, it's pretty much what's in the starting strength book but formatted and simplified for children who are going to do SL over SS because they can't be asked to read the book.
The form advice is alright, but very simplified.
That being said, starting strength form advice is all much better, it may be appropriate for a novice lifter, but definitely nothing special, just like the form advice on the SL website,
TL;DR: SS is basically SL, only nit picking autists who can't think for themselves would get mad at such minor differences.
>>35235521
you can also try fullbody + upper/lower (FxABxFx)
>>35233991
>Every program that has 5x5 is either not 100% throughout the set, or the set is 80-90% across. By doing SL, you are choosing to have worse progression because of a meme routine that became famous because of marketing efforts.
Tell this guy he's doing a shit program then
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YI-CU9_GUd4&ebc=ANyPxKpFMaGAmBNzae2aNz8OBmkdQJouRFrsioEqsx7T5_RSQWxGtchSoqak0AEgOypm6jYYYCrq
Retarded opinionated fuck boy.
>>35236979
One training session != program
Besides, he's not doing his 5RM for 5x5.
And let's not even get into the fact that his an advanced lifter, and we're talking about novice/intermediate programs here.
>>35237053
>One training session != program
What a ridiculous statement, the 5x5 is definitely part of his programming, an advanced lifter like himself isn't just going into the gym and doing whatever he feels like (ignoring self regulation)
>Besides, he's not doing his 5RM for 5x5.
Neither is a novice. You're doing the most weight you can do for 5x5.
Despite that, he is definitely doing his 5RM on that given day, his last reps looked like RPE10 to me.
>And let's not even get into the fact that his an advanced lifter, and we're talking about novice/intermediate programs here.
Except the same principles apply to novices and advanced lifters.
Advanced programs aren't too different to novice programming, just slower progression and a few advanced techniques such as periodisation.
5x5 is a novice and advanced technique, it's interchangeable.
Fucking retarded mentaly ill degenerate, did you get a part of your brain cut off when getting your dick removed?
>>35237242
It was never said that 5x5 is bad. Texas Method is the shit I recommend the most and the first thing you do is 5x5. You are strawmaning hard here.
However, we are talking about SL vs SS here. SL has 5x5 at your 5RM, while SS has 3x5 at your 5RM. This means your 5RM will be higher with SS.
That means SS is a more optimal program for novice lifters.
Not only that, but pretty much every single good program for novice lifters does 3x5 5RM instead of 5x5 5Rm.
The point is, SL is made by a marketing firm with no coaching knowledge or even much experience at all. Only reason it's famous is the mobile app (that was launched back when there were pretty much no other apps, and the quality of it is pretty high), and marketing effort (including paying celebrities of the fitness industry to shill for their website).
SL is just not a very well thought out program, and it shows.
>>35233962
why is icf 5x5 a shit routine?
Thoughts on compressing 5/3/1 into an A and B day?
Something like:
A: Squat + OHP + accessory work
B: Deadlift + Bench + accessory work
and a week of training (starting on Sunday) would be something like:
ArBrArB
I admit I haven't read Wendler's book but I'm on the deload week of my first cycle of 5/3/1 and I don't feel as though only hitting each primary lift once a week is really necessary for me at this point.
Thoughts?
Any reason I shouldn't?
>>35237689
>You are strawmaning hard here.
Hypocrisy and false claims. It was heavy implied due to the context of the original post.
>However, we are talking about SL vs SS here. SL has 5x5 at your 5RM, while SS has 3x5 at your 5RM. This means your 5RM will be higher with SS.
It means you may be working at a slightly higher weight, (2.5kg more maybe) however your strength is identical as volume transfers to maximal attempts.
>That means SS is a more optimal program for novice lifters.
>less volume = more optimal
That's subjective and neither of us can claim that's true.
>Not only that, but pretty much every single good program for novice lifters does 3x5 5RM instead of 5x5 5Rm.
>every single good novice program
Subjective and not even true. Just because you say something is, doesn't mean it actually is.
There aren't even many novice programs, they're all cookie cutter 3x5 or 5x5, both of which aren't even set in stone. You're free to self regulate workouts and do less or more sets if you desire that workout.
>The point is, SL is made by a marketing firm with no coaching knowledge or even much experience at all. Only reason it's famous is the mobile app (that was launched back when there were pretty much no other apps, and the quality of it is pretty high), and marketing effort (including paying celebrities of the fitness industry to shill for their website).
The information on the SL website is literally the information from strength get strength re-formatted and simplified for dumb fucks too lazy to read the book.
It's nothing reveloutionary or new, yet it is IS NOT wrong or bad information either.
The program does as advertised and is an efficient way of doing it.
I'd argue 5x5 is superior in the early novice stage as they can easily handle the volume and recover from work out to workout, which the added benefit of more volume, which in turn makes you stronger. You can't progress without necessary volume.
The only real major difference is rows over PC
>>35238263
>It was heavy implied due to the context of the original post.
No it was not. You were straight up using a strawman as an argument.
>It means you may be working at a slightly higher weight, (2.5kg more maybe) however your strength is identical as volume transfers to maximal attempts.
That's not how progression works, though.
>That's subjective and neither of us can claim that's true.
Pretty objective from the plethora of experience and studying made by actual coaches with decades of experience.
Only person putting novices to do 5x5 is a marketing dude with no coaching experience and barely any experience at all.
>Subjective and not even true. Just because you say something is, doesn't mean it actually is
Prove it wrong then. I've mentioned plenty of the world's most renowned programs for novice lifters and every one of them is 3x5.
>The only real major difference is rows over PC
Wrong. SL has rows instead of chinups. SS has chinups AND PCs that are not included in SL.
That's not the only difference, though.
The entire progression, including the very start and the weights you increase on every workout, and the way you deal with deloading and stalling, and the customisation of the program, is completely different. Not to mention the SS book is an infinitely superior source of knowledge and learning material than the SL website.
SL is just a worse version of SS in every single aspect. Deal with it.
>>35237816
I wouldn't say it's shit. It has many of the important principles needed for a novice routine.
It's just not "solid". It's "alright-tier".
>>35238516
>No it was not. You were straight up using a strawman as an argument.
No I did not, you are using a straw man argument.
>That's not how progression works, though.
So you're saying increasing you 5x5 won't increase your 3x5? What the fuck?
>Pretty objective from the plethora of experience and studying made by actual coaches with decades of experience.
There was no studying in Stsrting Strength, the whole book is Mark rippetoes opinion, supported by a few peer revisions by other retards with no sources for their claims.
>Only person putting novices to do 5x5 is a marketing dude with no coaching experience and barely any experience at all.
Firstly, that's not true, there are plenty of 5x5 novice and intermediate and advanced programs, it's literally 2 extra sets, it means literally nothing.
Secondly all the information off the SL website is information from the starting strength book, therefore the dudes coaching history or experience doesn't matter.
>Prove it wrong then. I've mentioned plenty of the world's most renowned programs for novice lifters and every one of them is 3x5.
You mentioned SS and SL? Real variety of novice programs.
Good novice programs are derived from coaches in person, SL and SS are cookie cutter general strength that anybody can pick up.
How actual coaches, who have trained successful lifters, (note: Mark rippetoe hasn't trained a single successful lifter) program is beyond me because I don't have access to it.
>Wrong. SL has rows instead of chinups. SS has chinups AND PCs that are not included in SL.
what part of my statement was wrong? What??
Stronglifts have accesories, just like Stsrting strength.
If we discuss the actual program without accessories as not to distract from the point at hand, SS does not have chin-ups, nor does SL, but that is irrelevant.
>nice straw man
1/2
>>35238516
>The entire progression, including the very start and the weights you increase on every workout, and the way you deal with deloading and stalling, and the customisation of the program, is completely different
It's literally not
>do 5x5 or 3x5
>add 2.5kg the next session
>if you stall try again next session
>stall again? then deload
Customisation is up to the lifter doing the program, the recommended choice of assistance lifts may be different, but the lifter can make his own choices.
>Not to mention the SS book is an infinitely superior source of knowledge and learning material than the SL website.
I never stated SL has more in depth information.
However SS IS NOT A SOURCE, nothing in that book is backed up.
>SL is just a worse version of SS in every single aspect. Deal with it.
Said the inexperienced anonymous shit poster who takes female hormones to make up for the fact daddy never hugged him
>>35239077
>So you're saying increasing you 5x5 won't increase your 3x5? What the fuck?
Yes. You won't be able to increase as much weight in 5x5 as you would in 3x5.
Also, SL has fixed progression that you follow. SS has flexible progression based on your own ability to progress.
Not only that, but by doing 5x5 100% sets across you are way more likely to stall and have to reset than 3x5.
Also, the way you break through plateaus on the programs is different.
Not only that, but SS's own program is flexible depending on the person and their strength level, gender, age, etc. SL is a fixed program.
Etc etc etc.
But you can barely understand how things work, I'm just wasting my time here.
>There was no studying in Stsrting Strength
Stopped reading there, gr8 b8 you caught me.
>>35239077
>SS does not have chin-ups
It does tho. it's literally written in the book that you add chin-ups on day B.
>>35239475
We're discussing the rep / set scheme, not accessories.
Chin-ups are part of the accessories, as far as I am aware they are not part of the bare bones program.
>>35239459
>Yes
Ah, so you're an idiot.
>You won't be able to increase as much weight in 5x5 as you would in 3x5
That may be true, that may be false. Each lifters work capacity is different, if anything doing 5x5 from the begging in will increase your work capacity so you can do 5x5 for longer.
Nothing is stoping them from continuing SL with 3x5 at LATER stage novice, if they wish to milk linear progression.
5x5 is very useful for early stage novices however.
>SL has fixed progression that you follow. SS has flexible progression based on your own ability to progress.
This is where you are looking at everything at face value
You have a choice to use micro plates on either program, the point in both is to increase the weight sessionly.
There comes a point it's worthless adding microplates because weekly progression of 2.5kg on an intermediate program is hands down faster progression.
Nobody is forcing you to profess 2.5kg a session on either program, that's just recommended because novice lifters can handle that. Emphasis on NOVICE, these are NOVICE programs.
>doing 5x5 100% sets across you are way more likely to stall and have to reset than 3x5.
This is true, but no where near a problem as you're trying to make it out to be.
They likely won't stall until they are nearing the end of novice gains, in that case they have their own brains and can reduce volume if they so desire.
Some may not stall due to increased work capacity.
>Also, the way you break through plateaus on the programs is different.
That's pretty irrelevant, you have your own choice on how to deal with stalls, the program only gives you ideas on how to break a plateau.
>Not only that, but SS's own program is flexible depending on the person and their strength level, gender, age, etc. SL is a fixed program.
Man made of straw.
>>35239459
>But you can barely understand how things work, I'm just wasting my time here.
Man made of straw
>>There was no studying in Stsrting Strength
Stopped reading there, gr8 b8 you caught me.
IIRC there was only 1 cited study or something along those lines. The rest of the book is just
>take my word for it, I'm mark rippetoe
Starting strength is not a source. It does not conduct any of its own studies.
>>35239606
>>Not only that, but SS's own program is flexible depending on the person and their strength level, gender, age, etc. SL is a fixed program.
>Man made of straw.
That's not a strawman m8. You're talking about progression and SS has flexible program that allows for better progression for different types of people. SL has a fixed program that has average progression for most people.
>Chin-ups are part of the accessories, as far as I am aware they are not part of the bare bones program.
You're not aware enough then.
The "main" program is A: Squat Press DL B: Squat Bench PC Chins
>>35239850
>You're not aware enough then.
Pic related. You're not aware.
>That's not a strawman m8. You're talking about progression and SS has flexible program that allows for better progression for different types of people.
It's literally add 2.5kg a session for both programs. Your ability to recover and your work capacity determine your progression.
Both programs progress at the same speed if you add the ideal 2.5kg every session.
I adapted my upper/lower routine from my track workout in high school, but removed the sprinting part of the workout due to time constraints. Let me know if it's retarded or not please. I warm up for all compound lifts, and each workout I try to increase the DB assistance lifts by 1 rep. Once I hit 12 reps I go up in weight for the dumbbells and drop the reps back to 8. I've found this is really helpful for actually increasing assistance lifts. My overall goal is aesthetics, with strength being a secondary goal, and I try to add 5 pounds to each compound and the shrugs each time I do them.
My workout goes xAxBxCD.
>Upper 1:
Bench 5x5
Pullups 5xF (once I hit 12 reps I'll add weight)
DB chest flies 3x8-12
Skullcrushers 3x8-12
BB bicep curls 3xF(or 12, whichever comes first)
DB shoulder flies (front and side) 3x8-12
Back flies 3x8-12
Hammer curls 3x8
Shrugs 3x8
Forearm work if I have time (BB wrist curls)
>Lower 1:
Squats 5x3
RDLs 5x3
Calf raises (with weight) 5x10
Front calf raises 5xF
Ab wheel rollouts 3x8-12
Side ab bends 3x8-12
Farmers carries 4x40meters
>Upper 2:
OHP 5x5
Pendlay rows 5x5
DB chest flies 3x8-12
Skullcrushers 3x8-12
BB bicep curls 3xF(or 12, whichever comes first)
DB shoulder flies (front and side) 3x8-12
Back flies 3x8-12
BB reverse bicep curls 3x8
Shrugs 3x8
Forearm work if I have time (hex dumbbell holds, maybe wrist curls)
>Lower 2:
Squats 5x10
RDLs 5x10
Bodyweight calf raises 5xF
Front calf raises 5xF
Ab wheel rollouts 3x8-12
Side abs 5x8-12
Farmer carries 4x40 meters
Deadlifts 1x10 if I have time
What do you guys think? Too much volume? I've heard people talk about having sets and reps in a workout, but I feel great at the end of a session and have added some pretty good weight since I got better and started lifting again. Everything always feels worked good and proper and I always feel ready to go by the next time I have another upper or lower day.
>>35239935
>looking at the pictures and not reading the text
For most people, and for quite some time, this schedule will work well. After TWO OR THREE MORE WEEKS, CHIN-UPS CAN BE ADDED as the only really useful assistance exercise at this point in the program. You might decide to add three sets of chins after your power cleans, AND STAY WITH THIS PROGRAM FOR AS MANY MONTHS AS POSSIBLE.
Just because chin-ups are "assistance", doesn't mean they are not in the main program.
They are, it's literally what is written.
Comparing the SL program to the "barebones SS program" makes no sense since you are not supposed to stick with the barebones SS program for more than a month.
SL, on the other hand, is basically "do this only for whatever long".
>Both programs progress at the same speed if you add the ideal 2.5kg every session.
Except SS is not 2.5kg for every session. Read the book.
Honestly I'll do like trappy and ignore you from now on, you clearly have barely any idea what you are talking about.
>>35240168
>this whole post
>laughinggirls.jpeg
>>35240168
What are you even on about?
The whole book repeatedly says to add we it every workout. 2.5kg a session is ideal progression.
If you must get technical, you can add any weight every workout on SL, it's not set in stone.
Use your own brain.
>can be added
>assistance
What part of this aren't you understanding? It's a suggestion on what assistance YOU CAN ADD, not what you indefinitely should do.
Fucking retard
how about this? i liked most PPLxPPLx but schedule because a problem PPLPPLx was too much for me. that sixth day was tough or i skipped. 5 days is ok. id like to know opinions on pic related especially on those upper lower days.
>>35240308
The book does not say to add 2.5kg. It says to add multiple different weights depending on where you are in the program, how long you've been doing the program, how well you've been recovering and if you're old/young/man/woman/etc, and what exercise you will be increasing.
>What part of this aren't you understanding? It's a suggestion on what assistance YOU CAN ADD, not what you indefinitely should do.
He says you can add chin-ups or do the lighter variation he mentions right after.
That's the main program.
Listen to everyone telling you you are wrong and stop shitposting.
>>35240026
Please help.
I have a horrible lack of daily time but still want to work out hard.
ABCx
add 5lbs per week to all
Legs - Full squat, Front squat
Push (swap order each time) - Bench, OHP
Pull - Deadlift, Pendlay rows
>>35240308
Hey dipshit.
>>35240026
The volume is a bit too high. There are too many overlapping lifts.
This isn't a bad thing necessarily, specially if you're feeling like you can recover fine, but it's also not really a good thing either. Doing too much volume doesn't really bring more growth or strength necessarily, there's a point of diminishing returns.
I'll try to select a few things which you can change and try to explain why. These are suggestions, don't take them like something you must do or something.
U1:
Bench - do 3x5 instead of 5x5. This will allow you to lift heavier and progress further, since you will be lifting less reps overall. Doing 5x5 is not a problem, but it's the kind of thing better left to intermediate-level routines that have weekly periodization and vary on the volume of setsXreps depending on the day of the week - since those are focused on weekly progression instead of daily.
There's no real benefit to doing 5x5 as a beginner, only downsides.
Pullups - Also try 3 sets instead of 5. And do close-grip, since that gives the longest range of motion for the lats, and that leads to better back development. Another option is to do chinups, since they also train your biceps a lot more.
DB Chest flies - Do Cable Crossovers instead. They are safer for the shoulders, and have a longer range of motion for the chest.
DB shoulder flies (front) - you can remove these. Your front delts get enough work from the main compounds. The lateral raises are useful, though, as your lateral delts don't get as much work from other stuff.
BB curls - they are great and you can lift heavier than when using dumbbells. However, DBs can work your arms separately and balance the muscle growth and strength, in case one of your arms is bigger/stronger than the other (which is usually the case)
(character limit)
Anyone wanna help my cutting routine? My goal was to reintroduce calisthenics to my training, add cardio, and improve my principal lifts. I need help with my cardio days if you've got it.
Ps C Pl C L x x
Progressions for Calisthenic moves: Three week cycle of different variations and repetitions. At the end of the cycle, begin again with previous "Medium" Variation as the new "Easy"
Week 1: 3x15 of Easy Variation (i.e half Pushups)
Week 2: 3x12 of Medium Variation (i.e Full Pushups)
Week 3: 3x 8 of Hard Variation (i.e Diamond Pushups)
Push Day
Bench 3x5
Pushup progression
The Press 3x5
Handstands
Tri Press (SkullCrushers?) 3 x 5
Dips progression
Pull Day
Lat Pulldown 3x5
Pullup progression
Seated Row 3x5
Upright Row Progression
Bar Curls 3x5
Leg/Back/Core Day
BW Squat Progression
Bar Squat 3x5
Lunges?
Deadlift 1x5
Bridge-up Progression
Plank Progression
Leg Raise Progression
Cardio day
Row machine
Treadmill Interval Training ( maybe couch to 5k's progression?)
Eliptical cooldown
>>35240026
Hammer curls - You don't really need these. The other curls you will be doing are gonna train the same muscles in almost the same manner, and the pullups also work the elbow flexors with priority over the biceps.
Hammer curls do work your radiobrachialis a bit more than supinated curls, but it's not really that much of a difference. You can keep doing it if you want, but if you want to reduce the volume this is a good one to remove.
L1:
RDL - You should give priority to doing the regular Deadlifts instead of the variation RDL. The point of the RDL is to help increase the strength for the main lift, not to be used as the main one.
The benefits of doing regular DLs is that you can reset your back before every rep and your spinal erectors get a lot less fatigued due to the easier eccentric phase. This is good to prevent injury and keep the lower back healthy.
Also, with regular DLs you can use much much heavier weights.
I suggest doing 1x5+1x3 or 2x3 regular DLs instead of the 5x3 RDL (you will be doing more warmup sets for this since you will be lifting a lot heavier, so even though the volume seems to be low it's actually quite a lot)
Squats 5x3 - I also suggest 3x5 for this one. 5 reps is the happy medium between strength and hypertrophy, and is the average amount of reps your neuromuscular system can handle before doing more unstable contractions (which leads to form breakdown).
Also, it can take too long to do 5x3. It can be a bit too tiring
U2:
OHP and Row: Suggest sticking to 3x5 instead of 5x5 for the same reasons I mentioned for the bench. It's just the optimal amount of setsXreps for linear progression routines
Curls: In case you remove the hammer curls from U1, you can remove the BB curls here and do the hammers instead
Pronated curls isn't very useful since it doesn't really benefit the training of any of the elbow flexors, it just puts them in an awkward position. Hammer is the optimal for the radiobrachialis, and supinated for the biceps
>>35240026
L2:
So this would be a lower intensity - higher volume day, uh?
In that case I suggest doing 5x5 Squats and 5x5 RDL, using 80-90% of your 5RM.
You don't need to be doing 10 reps for those. Doing high reps like that only leads to form breakdown (pic related), and since these exercises rely a lot on form (and doing bad form can lead to injuries), you want to stick to the 4-6 rep range. Also, if you end up learning the wrong motor patterns from doing high reps, you can end up also doing bad form when doing the low reps - higher intensity work sets on L1. Which isn't ideal at all.
I also suggest just removing the regular deadlifts from this day. No point in doing 1x10 after doing 5x5 RDLs, it's just cardio at that point. kek
>>35241373
Let me get home and I'll respond properly. Thanks a ton for all the advice.
>>35238020
>>35235311
I don't recommend 5/3/1 unless you are an advanced lifter, since the progression is pretty slow and you just deload way too much.
Also, remember that 5/3/1 is a periodized rep scheme - you are not supposed to do 5/3/1 on every workout.
Sticking to the regular 3x5 for PR days and 5x5 at 80-90% for the volume days, or doing ramping 5x5 sets, is what most intermediate routines do.
Texas Method is a template for an intermediate routine that has a volume 5x5 day - a light 3x5 day - and a PR 1x5 day. It's one of the, if not THE, most popular intermediate program. It allows for full customization, and the progression is very steady and relatively fast.
Madcow 5x5 is another example of intermediate routine that I think would be more benefitial than doing 5/3/1. It is more of a bodybuilding routine, when compared to TexasM, so it focuses on having more volume. It has ramping 5x5 sets (i.e. 50->62.5->75->87.5->100% on monday) and monthly cyclical periodization.
Candito's, Juggernaut and inverted juggernaut are also somewhat popular options.
If you want to do a split, I suggest taking a look at PHIR (Pic related) (4 days per week) and PHAT (5 days per week).
These are less focused on strength, though. They are even more turned towards bodybuilding than madcow's.
>>35235473
I have a pretty big difficulty figuring out what the program in the pic is with all the weights in lbs.
Would be easier for me to give some feedback if they were in % or kg. kek
>>35240959
That is fine, but you are only working each muscle once per week.
A fullbody routine would be much more benefitial for you, without taking much of your time either. I recommend SS, but Candito's, Greyskull LP, Reg Park's, are also good options.
Monday
BB Back Squat 4x5-10 (Warm up sets with bar and ramp up weight)
BB Bench Press 4x5-10 (stick to lower, heavier reps ideally)
BB Bent-over Rows 4x10 (Add weight if you can hit 10 easily)
Lying Leg Curls 3x8
Cable Flyes 3x10-12
Lat Pulldowns 3x10-12
Tricep Rope Extensions 4x10
Calf Raises 4x15
Wednesday
Deadlift or Sumo Deadlift 3x3-5 (Warm up sets with just bar and increase weight 10-30kg per set)
BB Overhead Press 3x5-10
Assisted Pull-Ups or Bodyweight Pullups 3x5-10 or to failure
Leg Press or Bulgarian Split Squats 3x10-12
Assisted Dips or Bodyweight Dips 3x10
Cable Face Pulls 3x10-15
DB Hammer Curls or other bicep exercise 4x8
Friday
BB Back Squat or DB Bulgarian Split Squat 4x8-12 (Much lighter weight, really aim on going deep and pausing at bottom of each rep)
BB Bench Press 4x8-12
BB Bent Over Rows 4x8-12
Lying Leg Curls 3x10
Push Ups or DB Incline Press 3x10
Seated Cable Rows 3x12
Tricep V-Bar Pushdowns and Bicep Curls 4x10-15
Lying Leg Raises 3x10-15
Got this from a PT, does it look alright?
>>35241134
>>35241300
Back, I'll respond proper now.
For Bench and pullups, I never even considered 3x5, but I think that is a good idea now that you mention it. By that fifth set I had a lot of trouble getting the weight up with good form. Should I up my weights a bit next workout to compensate for the fewer number of sets? I am already doing close grip pullups, but I'll consider chinups as well.
DB chest flies: Yeah, I have heard cable crossovers are better, but there's only one machine that can do them in my gym and it's always fucking being used so I settled for DBs instead. If it's ever free then I'll definitely prioritize those first.
DB front shoulder flies: That makes total sense getting rid of them now that you point it out, I'll do that.
BB and hammer curls: I'd added in the hammer curls with the intention of also having some DB bicep work for the exact reason you listed; I didn't want to neglect symmetry or certain stabilizer muscles. Do you think just BB curls would be better?
Comment 1/2
>>35241228
Do the main lifts before the calisthenic moves.
Push day is good, but I suggest adding lateral raises too.
Pullday could use some improvement.
I suggest trying one-hand lat pulldowns instead of regular ones. Regular pulldowns are pretty much the same thing as pullups. The one-arm variation, though, gives you the longest range of motion for the lats out of any other back exercise. It's pretty good. Check this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaJhYsCkX2s
And remove the upright rows. They are terrible exercises. Useless for muscle growth, and the most injury-inducing exercise in the weightroom. It will fuck up your shoulders and rotator cuff, and having that sort of injury is no fun and can take quite a while to recover. Another vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SnVJDt7jts
The leg day is fine, though pistol/tuck squats are much better than lunges in my opinion. Besides being great for your quads and working your legs separately, they also train your hip abductors a LOT - more than pretty much any other leg exercise.
I don't have much knowledge about cardio stuff though, so can't help much there :(
>>35241300
RDL: I had originally given priority to deadlifts, but I found that my back and quads were always doing the lion's share of work. I tried every change I could think of to fix my form, but I always ended up having it neglect my hamstrings and glutes, so I swapped them for RDLs to prevent a muscle imbalance. So many lifters that I've seen have underdeveloped hamstrings, and I didn't want that since I like a well rounded, well developed look. I also really like the way that RDLs hit the hamstrings and glutes in contrast with deads. I'm not saying I'm disagreeing with you at all, I am just explaining why I replaced deads with RDLs. Do you think I could alternate between deads and RDLs, or should I really just do deads alone?
Squats: I'll adopt the 3x5 for this as well, the 5x3 was a holdover from my track days that I never felt inclined to change since it was just habit. And you're right, that last set was always a Herculean struggle for me.
OHP and row: I'll do the 3x5 here as well, thanks.
Curls: Disregard what I said earlier about just doing BB curls, I had only skimmed your comments before I got home. I've always had issues getting my biceps to grow, is just one assistance exercise sufficient volume you think? Also, I really like how the front muscles of the forearm look, which is why I added in the pronated (my new word for the day) curls to hit them more directly. Is there anything I could add to replace that work, or does that muscle group get hit well enough from the other lifts, such as the hammer curls?
>>35241373
Yeah, my intention was to alternate heavy and low rep with lighter and high rep since I couldn't think of any decent assistance work for the legs. I have found that my form suffers in the last couple of sets though, so I think you're right here. If I adopted the 5x5 for the higher volume, lower weight day, would I still do 3x5 for the higher weight day?
I'll axe those deads then.
Trying to gain my old maxes back whilst cutting. 420lb Squat, 295lb Bench, and 460lb Deadlift. Hoping to get 440lb squat, 300lb Bench, and 485lb Deadlift end of this year. I also have an all out arm day since my chest and back grows faster than my arms.
Utilising 5/3/1 to get my old strength back then go onwards to madcows intermediate transition to madows advanced or using a voluminous 5/3/1 full body cycle.
Monday, 5+
Squat 3x5+
Bench 3x5+
Row 3x5+
Accesories: Glute-Ham Raises 3x10, Calves 5x10
Wednesday, 3+
Squat 3x3+
Bench 3x3+
Deadlift; week 1; 5+, week 2; 3+, week 3; 1+
Accessories: Lats 3x10
Friday, 1+
Squat 3x5,3,1+
Bench 3x5,3,1+
Row 3x5,3,1+
Accessories: Glute-Ham Raises 3x10, Calves 5x10
Saturday: Arms and Shoulders.
Overhead 5/3/1
Cable Skullcrushers 3x10-12
Ez-Bar Pushdowns 3x10-12
V-Bar Pushdowns 3x10-12
EZ-Bar Reverse Curls 3x10-12
DB Curls 3x10-12
Preacher Curls 3x10-12
I've been doing this for two months and my arms are looking much better than ever. Upped my protein and lowered carbs; making all kinds of gains.
DESU, having delts, and arms makes it look like you lift. Their dealbreakers of a herculean physique; chest and back muscles are overrated.
My future workout would be the same as above, but with different rep schemes, volume, and intensities.
>>35240974
That's NOT SS, that's a modified program if you are
>elderly
>stalling
>a woman
e.t.c
THAT IS NOT THE PROGRAM IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM
Read the book YOU RETARD
>He says you can add chin-ups or do the lighter variation he mentions right after.
>that's the main program
>YOU CAN
By that logic, all the accessories advocated in the book, added onto the program is "barebones" SS.
He recommends you add chin-ups, claiming that's the ONLY worthwhile assistance. Nothing is mandatory.
The main program is just the 5 Aexercises:
Squat, bench, deadlift, press and PC
>The book does not say to add 2.5kg. It says to add multiple different weights depending on where you are in the program, how long you've been doing the program, how well you've been recovering and if you're old/young/man/wo
I never said it tells you to add exactly 2.5kg, I said it's an ideal weight, and an option. Just like the weight increase in SL.
I ONLY brought it up because 2.5kg is an average weight increase, it was for references.
>stop shitposting
Are you so BTFOd that you have to claim I'm the shit poster?
Are you 12?
>>35240855>>35244880
MEANT FOR YOU
4 U
>>35240974
YOU FUCKING RETARD
THIS IS WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT THE PROFRAM YIU POSTED
HAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAH
READ THE BOOK RETARD
>>35244939
>>35244905
>>35244880
Keeping this bumped
>>35214650
>you are not training biceps optimally.
ok, haha
>>35246066
That's your response?
Lmao rekt
Anon on suicide watch
Lmao
>>35241556
what is the main difference between the white and the black routine? other that the obvious difference in excercises ofcourse. Who should be choosing which program?
Monday: Arms+Face Pulls+lateral raises
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Back
Tuesday: Chest
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Shoulders+Pull ups+Barbell Rows
Sunday: Rest
My legs are already ahead of my upper body, and i fucking hate chest workouts. Thats why i'm hitting them once a week. Overall, is this split looks fine? I don't like ppl or upper lower because i don't enjoy them, i like a little bit more volume on body parts when i train, thats why i split like this.
Reasons why this "program" sucks:
There is no planned progression, this is a routine not a program. There is no guide on warm-up sets, no techniques used, such as periodisation for example, nor is there any structure to the routine. At best the structure can be described as a grocery list of exercises, typically seen when novices try to create their own "program" without any knowledge or experience in programming; that's because this routine is exactly that: a novice lifters misinformed opinion.
This routine is often advocated by "Trappy-Chan", which makes sense because it's dog shit like the "advice" he often gives out.
As for the program itself, it tires to revolutionise programming by mixing full-body withP/P/L; and as expected, it doesn't work,
Wonder why you've never seen any other program do that? Because it's illogical novice garbage. There's no justification for the routine, nor is there any explanation to the intent of the programmer.
Oh yeah... Because it's suppose to be a joke.
The exercise choice is dog shit, all is fair though because you can decide on what lifts to do yourself, but as a general outline specialised exercises like "one armed lat-pull down", "pistol squats", and brolifts such as "middle cable crossovers" and "DB kneeling rows", have no place in an intermediate program. (this isn't a program)
There is no specialisation or apparent goal, this won't make you stronger because
>no planned progression
>fatigue accumulation from the "hypertrophy" (typical novice buzzword for volume) days
The routine has you preforming taxing lifts, all in the span of 45 minutes. Take "C: Legs" as an example of random order and proof of how no thought has gone into this garbage.
This routine may will help you pack on as much muscle as going into the gym and doing whatever you feel like that day. It's pointless novice babble and a troll which is being advocated by a novice lifter who has no experience lifting, nor has coached A SINGLE successful lifter
>>35247696
Black seems more geared towards most people. White seems a specialised version for people who can't progress as quickly on the squats and deadlifts.
Or something like that.
I'd do the black one.
>>35248063
Classic shitposter.
>There is no planned progression, this is a routine not a program. There is no guide on warm-up sets, no techniques used, such as periodisation for example, nor is there any structure to the routine.
This is PPL, not a strength program. Very few PPL programs deal with those things you mention.
Now, you are just being dense about the entire thing though.
The program clearly states you should do SS for months before starting it.
This clearly implies that: You will progress in the same way you were with SS, but on a weekly basis. You will warm-up the same way you were with SS.
You say there's no "periodisation", but MANY routines don't have that. Texas Method being a huge example. And TM is a strength routine, not even PPL.
>As for the program itself, it tires to revolutionise programming by mixing full-body withP/P/L; and as expected, it doesn't work,
"it doesn't work!"
"why?"
"because I say so!"
>Wonder why you've never seen any other program do that? Because it's illogical novice garbage
So PHAT doesn't work because it's PPL+UL?
Stop being retarded.
>The exercise choice is dog shit
Disagree, it's excellent.
>specialised exercises like "one armed lat-pull down", "pistol squats", and brolifts such as "middle cable crossovers" and "DB kneeling rows", have no place in an intermediate program.
You mean bodybuilding exercises have no place in a PPL routine?
This is some of the worst criticism I've ever seen attempted at that routine. And I've seen plenty of shitty criticism.
>>35248179
i'm not that guy but phir is a fucking meme routine.
brb resting 1 day after heavy leg day before a taxin full body workout
brb shoulder destroyer push day(not in a good way)
brb shoulder/wrist destroyer close grip pull ups(not chin ups, not neutral grip but close grip)
brb retarded full body day, just added to be different than other established, proven routines which will result in imbalances(see: rest differences between muscles)
brb idiotic volume full body day
brb idiotic heavy power cleans in leg day(see also: burnt cns)
brb hamstring/quad imbalances
brb elbow tendonitis from that push day + that full body day, especially with the white one.
again, phir is a meme routine which is made by a NEET who wants to spread a meme, and people think it is good because its weird structure. This routine will literally will hurt you in long term(fucked up knees thx to quad/ham imbalances, dead cns, elbow tendonitis).
if you defend phir shit, either you are the one who created it, or you are trying to spread a meme. a carefully planned brosplit would be way better.
>>35241619
>>35241717
>Should I up my weights a bit next workout to compensate for the fewer number of sets?
Always increase the weights on every workout for the main lifts. Even if it's just a small microload like 1kg. That's the rule-of-thumb.
You will end up plateauing sometimes, but most people find that deloading by 10% and progressing again helps break through plateaus.
If you find you're stalling too much, you can try an intermediate program focused on strength, like the Texas Method.
>RDL: I had originally given priority to deadlifts, but I found that my back and quads were always doing the lion's share of work.
You probably "felt more" on your quads and your back because they might be weaker than your hamstrings and glutes. But most of the movement in the deadlift is hip extension, and your quads and back can't do that.
So don't worry, your hamstrings and glutes are doing most of the work, even if you don't "feel it".
This might also be because you haven't deadlifted very heavy as well. The glutes and hamstrings are a very powerful muscle group, so it can take quite a lot of weight to fatigue them.
But routines are a very personal thing. If you enjoy doing RDL a lot more than DLs, stick to them. You're the one who's gonna be doing it, not me. And RDL is not a bad exercise at all. It will build you just as much muscle as the regular DL.
The only big difference is that you won't be able to progress to heavy weights with the RDL alone, and you'll have to be a bit extra careful not to round your back (though this will be mitigated by not doing very high reps).
But when it comes to muscle growth, it's just as good.
Do the one you enjoy doing.
>>35248179
>This clearly implies that: You will progress in the same way you were with SS, but on a weekly basis. You will warm-up the same way you were with SS.
Nope. Non of that is implied.
SS is a fundamentally different program therefore that wouldn't work anyhow.
>You say there's no "periodisation", but MANY routines don't have that. Texas Method being a huge example. And TM is a strength routine, not even PPL.
I did state that was an example, to emphasis the point that the program is illogical and no techniques are used because it's novice shit.
>This is PPL, not a strength program. Very few PPL programs deal with those things you mention.
not true. All good tried and tested splits have planned progression, otherwise you're just doing novice shit you read on a Japanese culture child abuse forum for Americans.
>it doesn't work!"
>"why?"
>"because I say so!"
firstly, I am capped at 2000 words and had a lot to get across
Secondly, that fact that it's never been done before, advocated or talked about in detail proves it's because it's dog shit and doesn't work,
No other TRIED AND TESTED program does it, nobody reccomends such practise.
It's typical novice linear thinking, they believe if they do two good things then they get twice the effect.
You see this often in novices.
>So PHAT doesn't work because it's PPL+UL?
>Stop being retarded.
it's literally not PPL+UL, nice strawman faggot.
>Disagree, it's excellent.
Let's hear you reasoning, years spent lifting and examples of successful lifters who have ran said program.
>You mean bodybuilding exercises have no place in a PPL routine?
They're not bodybuilding exercises,with that logic every single exercise is a bodybuilding exercise if done with large volume.
Which is true in its own sense, but not true in reality because these are specialised and taxing lifts stacked haphazardly on top of each other with no thought or reasoning and novice lifters can't think for themselves and R dumb enough to do this shit
>>35241619
>>35241717
>I've always had issues getting my biceps to grow, is just one assistance exercise sufficient volume you think?
Try doing chinups instead of the pullups, and you will definitely see more biceps development.
Most people don't need to be doing a hundred different biceps exercises, there are diminishing returns after a few sets.
You can keep doing more biceps sets if you want to focus on them. It's not like that's gonna ruin your workout or anything, so don't worry too much.
> I really like how the front muscles of the forearm look, which is why I added in the pronated (my new word for the day) curls to hit them more directly
Curls are exercises for your elbow flexors. Your forearm muscles don't flex your elbow, excluding the radiobrachialis (which goes from your arm to your forearm - it's the one "at the top" when doing hammer curls)
Best exercises for the forearm are wrist curls and wrist rollers.
> If I adopted the 5x5 for the higher volume, lower weight day, would I still do 3x5 for the higher weight day?
Yep!
>>35248063
You're criticizing a bodybuilding routine for being a bodybuilding routine.
Honestly there's no point in even trying to argue with you people because in your heads you are always right and anyone disagreeing is wrong in every possible way. You are the ones with years of experience coaching people and you are the ones who know what works and what doesn't. You are NEVER wrong.
So keep on shitposting as much as you want. I won't bother.
>>35248327
>getting muscle imbalance and injuries from doing a PPL routine
What the hell are you on?
>>35248403
first of all, this is not a ppl routine. second, you WILL get muscle imbalances, because of your exercise selection AND difference of muscle resting times. PPL is bullshit too, if you do 5 quad and 2 hamstring exercise on leg day. Exercise selection of PHIR is shit, especially on leg days. I'm 100% sure whoever wrote this shit down, is a basement dweller with a shit or otter body, who thinks he is a prodigy or something, either because he read tons of shit, and NEET, and incorporate them with a shit logic, or because he can see his abs from being skinny fag, he thinks he is next frank zane.
>>35248403
Honestly there's no point in even trying to argue with you people because in your heads you are always right and anyone disagreeing is wrong in every possible way. You are the ones with years of experience coaching people and you are the ones who know what works and what doesn't. You are NEVER wrong.
>>35248403
>Honestly there's no point in even trying to argue with you people because in your heads you are always right and anyone disagreeing is wrong in every possible way. You are the ones with years of experience coaching people and you are the ones who know what works and what doesn't. You are NEVER wrong.
lmao
I have made no effort to exert any claims myself, only to discredit your opinionated and misinformed """""advice""""""
>>35248510
>people who defends phir says "your opinion is wrong because mine is right" and it is logical
>people who thinks phir is shit says "this routine is shit, because of these reasons" and they are dumb
lol.
>>35247696
I'm not really sure, but I think the black one is better. The guy who made them said he will release a pdf someday with more details.
>>35242444
How much have you been able to add per cycle so far?
>>35241611
It looks good for a PT routine, desu. Most PT routines are pretty garbage.
I'd just recommend you stick to 4-6 reps with the main lifts (squat, bench) since they rely a lot on proper form, and you sacrifice form when going for high reps as shown in the pic here >>35241373
>>35248031
I'm not really a fan of routines that only work a muscle group once per week.
This is because your muscles, as a natty lifter, have a 48 hour window of repair and growth. After that, it would be ideal to hit them up again, so that you start another cycle of repair and growth. That optimizes things.
Not only that, but volume has diminishing returns. Sure you will make more gains doing 8 sets for the chest instead of 2, but there are very few benefits to doing 18 sets instead of 8 - if any.
But, it's your routine. In the end, the most important thing is to do something you like doing. Going regularly to the gym is more important than having a "great routine" but not going to the gym.
So if what you do is fun for you and it keeps you motivated to workout, then it's working as intended.
>>35248485
>>35248510
>>35248543
>>35248566
Sorry but I can't be arsed to teach people how things work every single time they cry about how PHIR is shit and how they know much better.
Specially since those people won't bother listening and don't think they can learn anything.
>>35248599
>muscles, as a natty lifter, have a 48 hour window of repair and growth.
True. But it's not the same for your CNS. If you are not a beginner anymore, it gets harder and harder to give enough stimulus to muscles. Elite bodybuilders just can't grow muscle as easily. They have to go pretty far to do that, and their CNS just can't recover as fast, so working out again in 2 days would be pretty useless.
>>35248641
Elite bodybuilders are on steroids, so their muscles keep growing forever even if they just work them out once per week.
>>35248654
>There can't be any natty elite bodybuilders. And if there is, they are also on steroids. All CBB elites should just take ss with accessories desu, they know nothing!
>>35248670
I want Klokov.
>>35210878
jesus how is that shit even possible
Greyskull LP or ICF?
>>35249075
>>35249075
Greyskull no doubt
>>35248063
In reference to the black side of this info pic I planned to switch to this after hitting 2plate squats, should I switch from SL to SS in preprration for this?
My end goal is to be less flabby, yet I like progressing in strength, would that routine be better or should I be looking elsewhere?
>>35249260
Also if I decide to spring for it should I get just the SS book or that and practical programing book?
I'll be honest been "training" for a year or so, wanting to get serious but idk if strength programs will get the end goals I want.
>>35248641
>True. But it's not the same for your CNS. If you are not a beginner anymore, it gets harder and harder to give enough stimulus to muscles. Elite bodybuilders just can't grow muscle as easily. They have to go pretty far to do that, and their CNS just can't recover as fast, so working out again in 2 days would be pretty useless.
What kind of stupid myth is this. Work capacity is trainable, and unless you go absolutely ham on every excercise with dropsets beyond failure and shit like that you can train a muscle several times per week.
>inb4 "m-muh training for size!!1!! M-must go to failure on every single set !!!!11!1!"
You can easily go to failure on the last set and still be recovered enough in a few days. It's all about gradually getting used to the training volume.
>>35249260
>>35249354
I do recommend switching from SL to SS. You will find your lifts go up in a more reliable way.
The SS book is great and has a LOT of info about biomechanics and stuff. Honestly, it can be a bit too in depth in some parts, but it can be pretty hooking.
It does have a separate part specifically for the programming where he explains everything you need to know, in case you already know how to perform the main lifts and want to skip that part (though it's a pretty good read if you have the time).
It also has a pretty big part of ancillary exercises and stuff. Lots of good information on the book.
The practical programming is also good but it's not needed at all. It's something you can go after if you want to go deeper and learn more stuff about the science behind lifting and programming.
The SS book itself isn't completely necessary, as there's plenty of information about the program on the internet http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program
But I do recommend you give it a read, even if it's only the part about the program itself.
"SS doesn't build muscle" and "SS makes you fat" are memes and myths. Pic related are two /fit/zens who did SS.
If you eat, sleep, and train, you will get stronger and gain muscle mass.
>>35250859
Couldn't agree more.
