TRUTH
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /fit/ - Fitness
You are currently reading a thread in /fit/ - Fitness
I'm peacing from this forum permanently so I want to drop some knowledge that took me years to realize before I go.
To anyone here who's a noob and thinks they can look anything like Jeff Seid, Zyzz, Lazar Angelov etc. natty EVER let alone in the few years as delusional new lifters seem to think:
The Mother Fuckin TRUTH:
ANYONE WHO LOOKS GOOD IS ON THE JUICE. PERIOD.
I've known this for awhile but don't take my word for it, here's an interview with a pro fitness model
"It's really hard for some guys because everyone reads the muscle magazines, we call them muscle comics...Every one of those guys...is using gear. Period. Plain and simple."
Now, that's NOT to say you can slack, it's a combination of putting in years and years of hard work and combining that with effective "supplementation".
Discuss.
https://soundcloud.com/dangerandplay/fitness-model-interview-steroids-training?in=dangerandplay/sets/bodybuilding-fitness-health-nutrition
http :// sc-downloader.com/uncensored-interview-with-a-fitness-model-on-anabolic-steroids-training-and-nutrition-131727727.html
>>35200391
>Things we aIready knew about Zyzz wannabes: the thread
>>35200391
Thanks for telling us something 99% of us already knew.
>>35200413
>>35200422
That's great, and I hope the majority of people know this, hence why this is directed at noobs.
The number of natty dudes talking shit about dudes physiques like they think they can get there in 3 years taking creatine shows it's not
Bump for the nubs
>>35200391
>ANYONE WHO LOOKS GOOD IS ON THE JUICE. PERIOD.
how true is this?
why is anyone even lifting natty then, if everything we see is only achievable on juice?
shit im only 2pl8 squat, wtf's the point if i'll never be aesthetic natty, why not just juice.
>>35200706
if your goal is any of the following: to improve your health, to gain a sense of confidence and accomplishment for achieving your goals, and to have a body which looks good to the opposite sex, then no, you do not need steroids.
if your goal is to impress other insecure roided up frauds on anonymous imageboards, then you do.
>>35200769
This. Once you are big enough to impress other male bodybuilders, you are too big for most women's taste.
>>35200779
i concur
>>35200769
>and to have a body which looks good to the opposite sex,
yeah and what's the standard to measure this?
if literally every pic posted of fit/cut people is using gear, then wtf is the standard here.
nobody cares
>>35200779
Concurred.
This coming from a guy who has used steroids. The girl I'm seeing now doesn't want me to get bigger. Fortunately for her, neither do I. I date a lot and this is a recurring theme. I'm 6'1 @ 185lb and about 9% bf.
anyone have any real pics on what bod is achievable natty? not meme pics or fatties doing gomad and shit.
like actual pics after 2, or maybe 3 years of real lifting.
>>35200779
concurrence
>>35200887
181lbs, m8 sorry to break it to you but you aren't big
>>35200887
>I'm 6'1 @ 185lb and about 9% bf.
>used steroids
lol lets see some pics then "big guy"
Women lie about this all the time. The ones that don't lie about it don't like guys with impressive physiques because it makes them look like shit in comparison.
Literally disregard EVERYTHING women say about what they find attractive. Most of them will choose uglier guys for either reason above or to seem less shallow. That's just how obsessed with their self image they are.
>>35200391
I have a question for you DYEL BRO
>>35200391
Why are you leaving?
>>35200706
Everyone who earns his money by looking good through lifting weights is on gear.
Imagine a job opening as a fitness model or youtube guru.
>500 bodybuilders apply.
>Even if only 5 of them are on gear.
>Everyone on gear will look bigger and better than any of the nattys.
Who's gonna get hired do you think?
Everyone working in the fitness industry and who earns their money with their body is juicing.
sure you can't look like zyzz natty, but the natty limit is still acceptable.
>>35200391
>having the freezer above the fridge even though you use the fridge way more and heat rises upwards
Horrible design
>>35201135
i hope youre no implying that this guy is natty
>>35201035
Didn't make it.
>>35201135
he's not natty..
>>35201181
>>35201202
>thinking GoG isn't natty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGMijC4bP8Y
he is well under the natty potential at his bodyfat%, height, and weight, as according to
https://symmetricstrength.com/calculator/ideal_bodyweight
>>35201135
the guy you posted is bigger than Zyzz...
>>35201217
>secrets as a natty
lmao
sure is
this is what a natty with 10 years experience looks like not flexing (5'11 180ish on stage)
>>35201225
the fuck?
he weighs 175lb...
zyzz was a fucking mass monster at 225..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cieTFxRotUQ
greg o'gallagher looks DYEL with a shirt on and no pump.
not even body dysmorphia, you just blind
>>35201242
flexing
>>35200391
>ANYONE WHO LOOKS GOOD IS ON THE JUICE
>>35201231
>shit that works for natty lifters instead of roiders
>must not be natty
nice logic.
keep deluding yourself that someone 10lb under the natty limit for his bodyfat MUST BE ON ROIDS
https://www.instagram.com/p/4kAeWjFnWr/
look at those natty traps.
shoulders are well developed, but far from the cannonballs you get with gear.
>>35201217
>I eat like 2 meals per day
>workout maybe 2 times a week
he openly says he eats shit and drinks a lot of alcohol and hardly workout
>natty
yeah sure buddy
>>35201266
you should see the two meals a day that he eats.
they are pretty fucking huge.
he eats more his first meal than i eat all my meals.
he doesn't say he drinks a lot of alcohol, he says you can drink from time to time, in moderation, and still get great results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztgo8IEI0yw
plus post-workout alcohol can double your levels of free-testosterone.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23470309
so it can increase your gains to drink..
>free androgen index were significantly higher for EtOH (TT: 22.5 ± 12.5 nmol·L; FT: 40.5 ± 7.6 pmol·L) than for placebo (TT: 13.9 ± 6.8 nmol·L; FT: 22.7 ± 10.0 pmol·L).
>>35201253
I remember you posted this earlier saying this was his best picture ever taken, t b h I don't doubt it, he looks fucking sick in that pose. Natty bodybuilding seems so pointless and embarrassing sometimes, but honestly this one picture and pose kinda redeems it. Absolutely pissening delts and chest.
>>35201266
>intermittent fasting
>only working out 2-3 times a week
sounds natty to me
>’ve always made my best strength and muscle gains limiting my training frequency to three sessions per week, performing 4-5 exercises per session of 2-3 work sets each. Whenever I try to increase training frequency and/or volume, I inevitably stall on my lifts. With heavy lifting, your central nervous system requires roughly 48 hours for full recovery. If you’re training heavy on consecutive days, your strength potential will be limited.
from the mouth of the horse.
>>35201217
I can tell he's a manlet by his proportions
Might as well be natty
>>35201242
>>35201253
fantastic desu, he just doesn't have an ideal skelly, and if he did, people would call juice
>>35201363
5'10 so by /fit/ standards a manlet..
in the real world, he is as tall as most popular male sex symbols
>>35201363
>>35201453
he's not 5'10. He may claim 5'10, 5'11, 6'1, whatever, that's irrelevant unless he does a video in which he measures his height, he might as well be lying.
>doorknobs are at a universal height
>I'm 5'11 and the doorknob is roughly 3-4 inches BELOW my bellybutton
this dude is in the 5'6-5'9 (5'9 being generous) range. he's a liar manlet piece of shit
>>35201280
>They onIy used ElGHT men in their sampIe size
>Uncertified testing is nothing more than noted resuIts
>Doesn't show post testing period to see if the excess testost. was actuaIIy utiIized by the body in a beneficiaI manner
>Doesn't show if post-peak numbers maintained IeveI or dropped off after this sudden peak
Another great post from the same web site being thrown around in every thread ever since those two studies rekt the vegikucks.
>>35200706
It's not true. Plenty of natty lifters look good, and you'll look significantly better than most people after even a year lifting.
If you reach 1/2/3/4, you'll look pretty decent, especially if you're doing those for reps, which is definitely achievable.
The reason that most people who are in the public eye roid is because they can't afford to look shit. Actors can't afford to not fit the look their role needs, fitness models need to be in insanely good shape year round to get jobs, and bodybuilders or other professional athletes is obvious.
>>35200391
>took you years to realise
Life must be difficult with mental disabilities
>>35201547
Doorknobs are not a universal height, where did this meme come from? I'm 6' (184 measured), and my doorknobs are around my bellybutton.
>>35200906
Please take my word on this, I grew up wrestling and playing football, I promise you, PROMISE that a lot more is achievable natural than what you think. I've seen some huge motherfuckers that just worked their asses off and had good genetics.
I've been lifting for 8 years natty. People ask me if I'm on gear very often. I'm like nah dude, I eat and train proper. They don't believe me, but whatever, it's true.
There are only two keys. The first is to train with rage. Listen to what makes you fucking mad, then lift and aim to kill yourself. You'll actually get a good workout this way. Too many natties don't have the kind of rage that roids can give you immediately. So yeah, get mad.
The second key is to rest properly and eat properly. I train one body part a week, but I train it to absolute death. You can't overtrain, you can only under rest and under eat. If you train the way you need to, you NEED to rest. You can goto the gym every day of the week for an hour or two, but if you're natty, you should only train a body part once, or maybe once every five to six days.
Anyway, the natty limit is pretty high, but most of you queers don't have the sack to reach it. The biggest thing I see with guys is that they don't train with enough intensity. It's not about how much you can lift or how many times you lift it, it's about how ruthless and mighty the contractions are, and the emotional state you're in when you contract.
If you do these two things, you'll actually look really good. Will you look gear good? No, but girls will still be dripping for you all day.
>>35201704
im curious as to what an 8 year natty looks like.
i won't judge, just post your pic
>>35201149
As opposed to rising sideways?
Lmao all you retards actually think you need steroids to be big
>>35201755
Your parents raised a faiIure. You can't even troII properIy.
>>35201723
just google Alien Gains
>>35201253
Do legs that big come in handy for anything or do they just make buying jeans a bitch? I like larger muscles, but sometimes they look like they'd be a bitch to deal with.
>>35200391
>>35202300
U been lifting for 7 years?
>>35202300
sorry, angles don't fool us.
>>35202412
not me, the guy had been lifting for 3 years. I think he said he spent a year as a dyel, so I'm not sure if it's 2 or 3 years of lifting. I thought it was impressive as fuck and was very motivating for me.
>>35202300
Looks like a naughty bear
>>35201626
that meme came from http://i.imgur.com/PGcluHN.jpg
cbf saving and uploading pic
>>35200769
Well if this isnt bait to get people to rage I dont know what is. You guys are getting good at this. You deserve a raise :)
10/10
>>35201321
This.
>I hit the weight 1 a week
>Run hard once a week.
>Every week I am stronger and faster
What what?
Im thinkin about hoppin on juice whats the point to being a natty for 10 years when you can do the same in 1-2 years roiding
I mean if you have the choice to put good gasoline in your car and get a lot more hp why would you choose the old shitty gasoline the indian guy is selling on the corner?
>>35203465
>hoppin on juice
well you've already hopped on the 'ch0n, so I guess that's naturally the next step?
Shit that took me years to realise. I wanted to be a bodybuilder. I just prefer more definition and mass so I've also done a lot of gear. If you're natty you're not a bodybuilder. You don't look like a bodybuilder, you don't have what it takes to be a bodybuilder. I have nothing against "natural bodybuilders" or I would call them "people who just workout". I didn't want to look the same for 10 years like most of the guys in my gym or be stuck at the same weight for decades. Most of the times "natty" seems like an excuse for not being able to build muscle. It feels like an offense to the guys who are on gear and actually know shit. You think if you know all the exercises you know everything? What if I told you different medicines are 60% of your appearance and exercises are 5%? There has never been any records of bodybuilders dying because of using anabolic steroids. Abusing is a different story. But you can also die from drinking vodka or swallowing a cup of painkillers, right? It's just a medicine. It fixes people not kills them. Every side-effect can be countered by another medicine. So it's rather a question whether you want to be a bodybuilder or not. There is no natural bodybuilding. There are people who have muscle and people who don't. Less hate, less stupidity, more education. Coming down to sides I've had a bit of acne and gyno. But those can be fixed in a week or two completely. But the positive sides that no-one really talks about are massive. Besides the amazing gains and pump, it slightly changes your peronality, works as an antidepressant. You can bear stupid people more easily. You have a huge desire to be successful and productive. You get more confident. I created my first business because I couldn't stand the way I lived anymore. You heal faster.. spinal injury, burns, broken bones etc.. PS! You get hard boners and a bigger dick. Not promoting anything, just sharing what media and supplement companies hide.
>ANYONE WHO LOOKS GOOD IS ON THE JUICE. PERIOD
This is what jelly autist believe.
Blaha pls go
OP is kinda right. The dedication and time it takes to look just a fraction
as good as someone on gear is just insane.
I'd say it's actually more of less impossible for a natty to get that cut look that a needle nancy has.
the best you should aim for is something like a decent looking rugby player.
you wont be shedded, but to hold enough muscle you'll have to hold a little fat. not a tonne of fat, just some. i dont think it's acheivable any other way.
>>35201623
IZZLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>35202229
nothing came up other than green images of that vegan fuck
>>35203465
the gasoline thing might work, but I'm going to tweak your analogy for accuracy's sake:
You want to get from point A to point B. You can drive 5 miles a day using regular gas, or you can spend the extra cash and put in leaded gas which magically gets you 15 miles a day. You get to point B much faster and find you can even drive PAST point B. However, you find that your car doesn't run on regular gas anymore, and the leaded gas did some damage to your engine that's going to shorten the life of the car.
This is neither for or against steroids, but turns out to be a pretty good analogy for their use.
>>35201657
Came to say this. People here are not busting their ass off by doing SS a few times a week or shit like that. I also get called a roider when I post pics here even tho I'm natty
>>35200391
ITT: Waah waah cry babies who think they can't look good natty because they have lifted for a whole year.
The natty limit is much higher than you faggots think.
>>35200391
>ANYONE WHO LOOKS GOOD IS ON THE JUICE. PERIOD.
That's completely subjective.
>>35200391
>ANYONE WHO LOOKS GOOD IS ON THE JUICE. PERIOD.
kek
>>35200391
Define "looks good". Because you can definitely "look good" with no gear at all, your problem is your standards are fucked due to media.
>>35201217
No, faggot.
>>35205614
168lb at 6.6% is well under the natty limit for someone at a height of 5'10
Y-you too.
>>35201612
This tbqh senpai. I look better natty at 1/2/3/4 for easy reps than 99% of the male population. Anyone can look pretty good without gear unless your genetics are absolute shit
>>35200391
>ANYONE WHO LOOKS GOOD
>ON JUICE
Man you must have a severely fucked up definition of "Good" I know a lot of guys who I would say look "great" and they're natty, it's all perspective. We wouldn't win any bodybuilding contests but when it's time to take my shirt off at the beach I can see the mirins and smell the wet pussy. A six pack, some developed delts, juicy quads peakin through under the shorts, nice bulge and an adonis belt: sex magnet. You think you need juice for that?
A lot of skinnyfags and fatasses are going to read your post and give up immediately or turn to roids before even establishing a training regiment or understanding dedication and willpower.
Shame on you steroid shill. Not everyone wants to have 19" biceps at 6% BF. in the real world 15 inches and 10% is far beyond the majority of human physiques.
>>35200391
>ANYONE WHO LOOKS GOOD IS ON THE JUICE. PERIOD.
The delusion is too high.
>>35203169
I did know about that thread actually, but still, why did that guy think that they were universal heights, has he never seen a door that he's though was huge?
>mfw the natty limit looks better than roiders
>>35200422
>99%
That's why every day there are 4637372 threads where dyels are like:
>hurrrrrr is he natty?
>is this attainable natty?
>etc
No.
>>35209912
Those questions are very different.
>Is this guy natty?
Is not the same as
>Can I get this while staying natty?
Odds are if they're anyone who relies on their body or being in the public eye, they're roiding. But that doesn't mean you can't get as big as them without it.
>>35202234
u sound like a v big pussy tbqh
>>35200391
Oh, and it took you years to realize this? Jesus you must be the most stupid anon that ever came to /fit/
>>35209912
75% of those threads are bait or just shitposting
>>35201547
Holy shit did you ever think for a second that CAMERAS MIGHT NOT BE UNIVERSAL HEIGHT? JESUS CHRIST MAN DID YOU EVEN TAKE GEOMETRY?
>>35203465
And then what? You'll have to take roids your enitre life or what? I'm just curious.
>>35201728
Wat? Heat rises upwards. That's it. As opposed to nothing. It just does.
>>35202422
>Implying you're not a fat neckbeard.
>>35201149
You do realise cheap fridges are cooled by the falling cold air from the freezer.
my friend(the guy who owns the gym i goto) has been lifting for like 25-30 years i think
he's like 50 but looks like a 30 year old bodybuilder
>>35200391
Well you are kind of right, you see. Most of the people who look like they could be living as a bodybuilder, or someone who appears in a fitness magazine or is a supplement image, an actor, a pro wrestler, or anyone who gets payed to look big, is probably roiding. And virtually nobody could look like Arnold or any of this guys we all know without gear. If this took you years to realize, you must be mentally retarded or a teenager. I must say the natty limit is higher than most people on this board seem to think tho.
It all depends on what you consider to be "good looking". You don't even have to be big to look pretty good tbqh. If anon has average facial aesthetics and a regular built skelly, the day he reaches 1/2/3/4 and gets lean enough to have visible abs he will look fucking great for normie standards, and better than most of the male population. Girls don't even care of how bigs your arms are kek. Some gay guys like me do, but because I happen to be into fitness and what I consider "big" would be small for fitness magazines, most fags I know don't give a fuck either. People that work out get more pussy because they find themselves more attractive, and thus become more confident.
All this body dysmorphia is becoming cringeworthy. If you are not fat and do some exercise every other day, chances are you've got a nice looking body whithout shirt. Also nobody gives a fuck, grow up.
>>35212033
>If this took you years to realize, you must be mentally retarded or a teenager
So, you're suggesting the hundreds of millions of people who watch professional sports and believe the players are natty are in fact, retards?
How can a world full of so many retards function?
>>35212045
I wasn't saying that my dear friend. Most people that enjoy football, for example, don't play football, and know nothing about exercise, fitness and nutrition. The same with people that enjoy seeing wwe and that kind of shit, they are not into bodybuilding, they just like to see the sport/show. That does not make them retards. But if you are actually browsing /fit/, going to the gym, reading about nutrition and routines, and after years you still don't know how common roids are, you are in fact retarded.
Also, I'd have to say that there are quite a lot of stupid people out there m8, and the world is not even functioning as good as it could kek
>>35200391
If you believe that you need to juice to look good then you are of a population that shouldn't have been the fittest to survive. period. fucking losers
>>35203198
You're a massive faggot for your opinions and emoticon use. Thought you might like some independent confirmation of that, I know you've suspected it for a while now.
>>35208236
Its true that there is not a set universal height but there is a range. Most doors especially residential slab doors have knobs at 36 inches at the floor that's never to exceed below 34". The highest I've seen installed residential or commercial is 40". So while they're not all standard I'd easily bet money on them being 36"
Source: Installer/Carpenter for large, national door company.
>>35212045
>world is functioning
Sure thing boss.
I see retardation everywhere. Sometimes in the mirror. Always in the corridors of power.
For how potentially capable the human race is, we be scraping by.
>>35212045
The average guy in this planet is retarded, or at best, iliterate. And if you think the world is "functioning" you must be a retard yourself.
>>35212595
Sure, but the difference between 36" and 40" is a pretty big deal when discussing height. It's the difference between someone being 5'8" and 6". I didn't mean to imply that doors had doorknobs at 60" or something like that, just that using a doorknob to measure height is ridiculous.
>>35201242
>>35201253
>competing at a "natty" BB show
>natty
Pick one, fraud. "Natural" pro body building is a joke.
Posting natties in a natty thread
>>35207892
> nice bulge
> tfw that will never be me
I don't even know why I still lift desu...
>>35212033
> the day he reaches 1/2/3/4
I started lifting only recently so can someone please tell me what this references to?
>>35212033
>tfw I'm less than 10 lbs away from 1/2/3/4 on all my lifts at ~12% bf
Are you saying I'm finally becoming aesthetic?
>>35213864
1 plate OHP/2 plate bench/3 plate squat/4 plate deadlift
And by plate it means a 45lb plate on both sides of the bar, so if you do the math you get:
1 pl8 = 135 lbs
2 pl8 = 225 lbs
3 pl8 = 315 lbs
4 pl8 = 405 lbs
>>35211886
I think he was trying to imply that you should have just said "heat rises" and the "upwards" was unnecessary. Pretty autistic of him.
>>35201612
Blaha is a good example of how untrue this is ( me too :( ) but I agree that lifting for strength goals is good and that you're totally pathetic if you can't do these lifts
>>35201253
my god is he an ugly fuck though
>>35200887
>big
>>35201135
>natty
>>35201197
Underrated
>>35204934
Then how DO I bust my ass off? Complete noob. Walking home from first workout right now, SS revisited.
>>35213844
Good thing accomplishments and character are the most attractive qualities breh. Get crackin' on that breakthrough project that will change the world!
>>35200391
While I agree that a LARGE number (if not all) of professional bodybuilders roid in order to compete at a top level, I wouldn't say that ANYONE who looks good is necessarily juicing. There are many factors that contribute to overall physique development; this means that different people will see different results from weight training. Genetics is an obvious factor, however diet, training, and even overall quality of life (stress) will affect your end results. I think the attitude you're portraying in your post discredits the value of hard work. Also, the idea of looking good or 'aesthetics' is opinion based and will differ among lifters
>>35219346
That would be a killer Skyrim home.
>>35215494
Blaha is an exception to the rule, and he'd probably still look pretty decent if he cut.
For the average person though, strength + low bodyfat = aesthetic body.
Stop posting porn you fucking faggot
You are singlehandedly reducing the collective consciousness and willpower of /fit/ by compelling them to masturbate and lose testosterone
>>35215494
Blaha would look a lot less like shit if he wasn't almost a hundred pounds heavier than the average 1/2/3/4 lifter and bloated to hell from the gear.
"looks good = juice"
>pic related... suck my dick OP.
>>35220780
But this isn't you, this picture's been posted hundreds of times before.
>>35215467
I woulda thought "to the occasion" without the "upwards" clarification
>>35212033
>the day he reaches 1/2/3/4 and gets lean enough to have visible abs he will look fucking great for normie standards
Kek no. For normie standards you'd look good lifting half of that as long as you have visible abs m8.
>>35221946
Yeah, this. You won't look ripped by normie standards moving those weights, but at a low bodyfat there'll be plenty of people that will find you attractive with no shirt on.
It's at 1/2/3/4 that people think you look good with your shirt on or off though, assuming you have a low bodyfat %/
>>35220780
I remember when I used to see that photo when I was younger, I thought that it was such an amazing physique, but as I have progress I have realized that its nothing special, and he is very small and lean with good lighting/tan
>>35222151
The insertions are pretty good though, that's about the peak of ottermode.
>>35206019
I'm almost at this for reps, and while I definitely am not "done" on my journey (at 5'9 and 160lbs and lean enough for abs, vascularity everywhere including lower abdominals etc I can definitely gain at least 10-20lbs of pure muscle eventually) I was on a trial membership at a gym that has some obvious roiders, ranging from your very recreational roider who still is too much of a pussy to do squats to depth to full-blown potential olympia competitors, and I honestly felt like from a pure symmetry/aesthetic ideal I probably had the best body.
In the real world, legit monsters look gross and the recreational roiders who don't do leg day are too disproportionate.
I'd say the "perfect" body is probably the absolute natty limit at 10-12%bf, but since 99% of nattys will never get there because of the perfect training, diet, genetics etc needed, a low cycle of maybe just test or something would probably be the way to do it.
>>35201704
>There are only two keys. The first is to train with rage. Listen to what makes you fucking mad, then lift and aim to kill yourself
Been saying this forever lmao, got accused of gear when i posted pics here.
People are fucking stupid and delusional. No wonder i stopped posting on this crab bucket.
Acquiring gains= everything good, confidence up, attractive to opposite sex, people respect u, feel good and look good, etc etc
Too much gains= STEROIDS, insecure, wannabe, cheater, girls don't like too much muscle, ur too big, blah blah blah.
Rofl this is hilarious as fuck. People saying they will get too big, is like saying you're scared of going for a jog because you'll become a fucking olympic sprinter. ROFL.
>>35215494
Blaha is a fucking example of someone who doesent know what theyre doing and doesen't try hard enough.
>>35223086
see the weird thing is is that ICF 5x5 is a great program, Idk if he himself only ends up doing like one set for each exercise he does and skips accessories or what
Fuck off durianrider
