>>35097386
I don't subscribe to the deadlift being a pull

imo push/pull is a meme and doesn't really matter but some people swear by it so

i think brosplit is most aesthetic as it has a lot of focus on upper body instead of legs

>>35097546
Well it sure as fuck isn't a push. What next dimension does it belong it?

>>35097561
Think about what the legs do anon

>>35097546
>mfw lifting the bar from the ground is literally called pulling by all coaches and lifters

>>35097561
>What is physics
>What chain major player in the lift
It's a pushing movement genious

Last bump

>>35097588
You are not pulling the back with your back muscles. Your back always stays neutral. You are pushing yourself up with your legs.

Only DYELS pull diddlys, because they have shit form and low weights

>>35097386
5 day is fucking retard; unless you're roiding your wasting your time

PPL only works if you do it twice a week and i'm yet to see a decent program that can some how get it so you can run it twice a week without having a muscle group being hit two days in a row

upper/lower is the best because assuming you do it ulululx you get a lot of frequency which is by far the most important in building muscle size which is why 5 day splits are garbage

>>35098378
>and i'm yet to see a decent program that can some how get it so you can run it twice a week without having a muscle group being hit two days in a row

3on 1 off is the best way to run ppl
PPLPPLx is too much
PPLxPPLx is way better due to extra rest day

1 quads/hams/lowback/abs/calves
2 chest/shoulders/triceps (but not reardel.ts)
3 lats/traps/rear delts/biceps
4 rest
5 repeat day 1 (or different version of day 1)

5 day brosplits are shit, but 5 day power-hypertrophy routines are one of the best
lower power
upper power
x
legs hypertrophy (or chest-arms hyp)
push hypertrophy (or legs hyp)
pull hypertrophy (or back-delts hyp)
x
repeat
bodyparts outlined in brackets are basically layne norton's phat

>>35098149
How much can you pull, anon?

>>35097561
>>35097588
>>35097591
Can you fucking autists fuck up about this shit? It's an absolutely pointless argument and has no meaningful implications either way

I love Push/Pull with Squats and Calf Raises on Push.

PPxPPxx

>>35098378
Isn't U/l run ULxULxx so two of each per week? I thought that was the usual pattern. Thanks for the opinion tho.

>>35098561
thanks for the info anon, the hypertrophy thing sounds interesting.

>>35098757
So no dedicated legs day as such? How are you finding the results?

What's the best body building routine for intermediate? I'm on a four time a week upper lower split, but I want to be sure I'm gonna get swole enough on it.

>>35097561
>>35097570
If your are doing it right you are pulling with your glutes/Hams rather than pushing with your quads.

>what is biomechanics

>>35098561
What if you skipped one leg day to curb T rexing?

I.e. PPxPPLx

Read 'Practical Programming'.

Don't forget full body routines, that's what I do.

AxAxAxx

>>35099571
Not that anon but I will speak very highly of Push/Pull routines. ABxABxx

Squats/abs on push
Deads/calfs on pull.

It worked so well for me it was great. Saved a lot of time in the gym for me, as well as upper/lower splits because you can superset antagonistic muscle groups.

Push/pull i'd do ohp then squats or weighted chin ups and deads for example

Upper lower i'd do ohp/weighted chins and bench/rows it saves a lot of time, but you have to be mentally prepared for it and listen to your body cause it gets tough. You leave the gym feeling like you really accomplished something though.

>>35097386
I keep hearing about ppl someone post it
Brosplit
>generally shit progress on lifts since only hitting body parts once a week

upper/lower
>better since you can hit body parts twice a week

I mean someone who hits his heavy lifts more and allows himself to rest will clearly have a better routine and as a result gains.

back/bicep + squats
chest/tricep
legs/shoulder

ABCABCx

no muscles get hit two days in a row. all muscles get hit twice a week. i like to add sqaaaaaatz in on back/bicep day just because big legs are lovely to have and my leg day is rather mild.

I love upper/lower, but i don't think that i would do it if i wasn't interested in strength too (lower body).

>>35099861
> no muscles get hit twice in a row
Day C legs
Day A (right after day c) squats

Ok.

i like the idea of PPL, but i hate how weak my shoulders are after doing chest, and vice versa.

am i supposed to be at least 70% weaker on whichever muscle group i work second? or is my body just badly built for PPL?

>>35099861
Chest+tricep day will hit your (front)delts, if you do them pushing movements upwards (bench and variations, and also sides if you do flyes etc.)

Also legs/shoulder --> squats next day

>>35099971
Its normal. It takes years to build an excellent endurance (or lots of roids) for PPL. Its just your muscles saying "bro we are getting kinda tired, give us some rest m8 and we'll do better next time".

Just take 1 compound each day that you focus on, and then just kick the shit out of those muscles with other movements. Don't look at the weights on those exercises.

>>35099971
Yes benchin uses delts, so youre not goin to get 100% out of ohp after benching

>>35099945
Maybe he squats once a week

>>35100021
thats why
push1: heavy bench bench, light ohp
push2: heavy ohp, light bench

Am I the only one that thinks Legs-Pull-Push is a better order? I used to do PPL, but my lumbars were destroyed if I deadlifted the day before I squatted. Squatting before deadlifting has made it a whole lot better.

LPPLPPx is my current routine.

>>35100071
IMO you are DYEL / idiot if you do deadlifts on a pull day. Just alternate Squats + RDL + acc. and Deadlift + FS + acc. on leg days or something similiar. Saves your lower back and you get enough recovery to get good strength (=mass) gains.

>>35100095

I pulled 425 for 4 doubles yesterday and squatted 320 for 3x3 on Sunday and I'll do both again this week. I've pulled 510 and squatted 365 so I don't think I'm DYEL status.

>>35097546
by some (ben bruno, dan john) it is considered a hinge movement (just like the swing), definitely not a pull. i think, they're right.

>>35100126
1)Sounds like a rounded back deadlift to me. There's no way you're pulling with a good form if your lower body is that weak compared to squats. Just a friendly note, take a recording of yourself pulling. If your lower back is straight, then im sorry and you're just good at pulling.

2) That doesn't really go as an argument. Just why would you deadlift (which is mainly a lower body exercise depending heavily on glutes and hamstrings) on a pull day, when there is also a leg day? Think about recovery, your results could be much better (or not).

>>35097546

Push movements extend. Pull movements contract. Deadlift is a push. There is no debate.

>>35100188
But deadlifts are supposed to contact your back (isometrically), glutes, and hamstrings. The only thing pushing are your quads (ans I guess the calves a little bit isometrically for stability), and deadlifts aren't supposed to be a quad dominant exercise.

>>35100161

Well for one, I consider PPL a more powerlifting oriented routine. It works out perfectly as you're training one of the big three every workout. I have no idea how it would work as a bodybuilding routine, I've never really run it as such.

For me personally, I'd rather squat and deadlift twice a week instead of having to alternate the two on my leg days.

My back is a lot stronger than my legs, but I'm also full squatting if that makes up the difference between my squat and deadlift numbers.

>>35099678
Bullshit, despite how much you contract your glutes and extend your hamstrings, they never move the majority of the load.

and why do you all think PPL hits each muscle group a week? its not called PXPXL, you can run

PPLXPPL
PPLPPLX

>>35100242
They do dumbass. The dynamic work comes from hip alignment = hamstrings and glutes pulling, your lower back only works as a stabilizer (so its kind of a pole and at the end of it is the weight), so when you start to align your hips, your back starts to go upwards and you pull the weight up.

Pushing is only an image for you to keep your feet firmly on the floor stability.

>>35099654
upper lower should do just fine.
Im on an upper lower as well for about a month and a half longer, then gonna hop on the Texas method to get back on the strength gains train

>>35100095
> strength (=mass)
oh boy

>>35100362
So when you get more muscle mass, you lose strength?

>>35100372
So when you gain strength via CNS adaptation, you gain muscle?

>>35097386
FB is always teh best

>>35100379
In a long run, yes. You get to contract those muscles harder.

>>35100372
That isn't the counterexample. The counterexample is getting stronger without getting more mass.

>>35100429
2/10

>>35099945
>my leg day is rather mild

i also have oly tech lifting background. a mild leg day and then squats the next is absolutely nothing for such a large group of muscles. if its really that big of a problem just do ABCxABCx or do a chest/tri/shoulder, legs/back/bicep alternating program.

>>35099991
i feel that the fatigue on the front delts is negligible, as my lifts are the same regardless if i do a chest/tri day before shoulders or if im going in "fresh".

i have tried a chest/tri/shoulders day before, but its just too much time for one work out.

>>35100439
If that would be the case, why powerlifters gain lots of mass? is it becouse they only gain more fat becouse they want to eat like pigs? So there's no point in weight classes?

You have to be an idiot srsly if you think muscle and strength dont go hand in hand. You can train in a style which gives you more mass, and you can train in a way which gives you more strength, but you will get both.

is is just a coincidence, that all bodybuilders are strong, benching many plates etc? And do you think that a bigger muscle doesnt need a better nervous system?

>>35099790
can you show what your routine looks like. I have been looking for a good 4 day routine but haven't found anything spectacular

>>35097561
It's a hinge exercise.

>>35100234

Literally every extension exercise is executed by contracting muscles. Literally every movement you make is caused by contracting muscles.

SS for a couple of months > PPL

This is the right way to progress.

>>35099698
would be good, but your squat wouldn't progress as much as it could

viable option if you aren't primarily interested in leg size/strength (but they will still grow, only slightly less)

>>35099790
i agree, but i would do calves after squats on push, and abs affter deads on pull
don't really lke dl-ing with already weakened core