Is anyone else tired of these cartoons with basic ass "lore" being pushed as the second coming of Christ?
>Star Vs. (to a lesser extent)
All of them have bottom of the barrel simple "lore" but get praised because some background event gets shown later with an arguable payoff. It seems like nobody cares about shows that just tell fun stories with good animation anymore. Are these lorefags people who only watch cartoons and never experienced literally any other show? I feel it's that way nowadays and manchildren never watched anything besides what's on CN, Nick, or Disney.
Fucking this. From Gravity Falls kinda-but-not-really ARG stuff, to Steven Universe's half assed world building. I'm honestly tired of these mediocre shows getting passes because of "muh lore" and "muh serialized stories." It was good in Avatar because they had a world that was planned out to the smallest details before Korra fucked it up.
No, and i hate how some people are beginning to dislike story driven cartoons that actually attempt to make something of their show in favor of medicore drivel like uncle grandpa for being a "real cartoon".
Oh boy. I sure love these cartoons with half assed lore because they include half assed lore. It's not like they need to actually do it well because tumblr faggots will eat it up because of the theory potential.
>lore is bad
>but these cartoons with lore are bad because they don't focus on building it enough
Whatever it takes to be contrarian, eh?
Because even if nothing does come out of it, speculating is half the fun. There's literally nothing to talk about with shows like Uncle Grandpa because its not even good at what it does. And even good comedic shows like Gumball don't generate that much discussion.
Personally, I don't think it should be in the story if it's not in service to the characters. In Steven Universe, the lore doesn't help the world building at all. Humans are petty much oblivious to the gems despite being in a 6000 year long war with them. The world is almost exactly like ours, no gem tech is used anywhere, nobody looks into the gems, no explanation of why the gems aren't accountable for property damage. Let's compare it to say, Harry Potter where the magic world and its relationship with the "normal world" is clearly laid out. You get a clear sense that each part builds off of each other and the characters are greatly influenced by the past and the present.
>lore has effectively replaced action and cartoons with an actual plot
Because TV shows weren't meant to be scrutinized in that way. Saying a show is good because of theory potential isn't really a good thing because it doesn't acknowledge how good the parts of the show are themselves.
>Adventure Time has been consistently good
>Because TV shows weren't meant to be scrutinized in that way
Says who? Tons of medicore shows have been given headway from speculation. Just look at Dragon Ball Z. And you act as though the lore is the only thing praised about those shows.
Its the same type of lore that get people into Steven Universe. Who is gonna join the team, whats gonna happen next, what will these characters get themselves into and how will impact their relationships and the story.
Who the fuck ever cared about the lore of Dragonball when it was pretty much a magic cartoon where just about anything could happen? Dragon Ball almost never had set "rules" any pretty much everything was written on the fly.
I know this wasn't meant as an Uncle Grandpa thread, but, although I love the show, I gotta admit that it hasn't truly reached its potential.
With no overarching story, the show's success depends on its characters. Pizza Steve may be annoying, but he makes up for it by being aware of this and still having insecurities. Plus, he bounces well off of Mr. Gus, who's literally a perfect character all around, IMO.
Uncle Grandpa himself pretty much hinders the show. He's usually just portrayed as an idiot who constantly falls for Pizza Steve's shtick. Were the show to focus more on how he loves to help everyone (like the Aunt Grandma episodes), he could be a bit more likable, like a more quirky Wander. Don't get me wrong; Uncle G has his moments, but he generally falls flat.
With both WOY and UG being cartoony cartoons that take place in different locations almost every episode, it's almost impossible for me not to compare them. The former does comedic timing far better than the latter, unfortunately.
Uncle Grandpa's definitely gotten better lately, but we'll have to wait and see what these next ~50 episodes'll be like (if CN actually airs them).
And even then, Wander Over Yonder despite being a really good show, only got popular when they added a new character, showing signs of the continuity and lore that attracts people to a show.
This thread is just another one of those subjective threads that have vague "solutions" to "problems" with popular shows.
Of course there are some bad AT, SU, WoY episodes, but that doesn't mean the lore in the show is done poorly.
Fuck lore. Give me good character interactions and an engaging story.
Things like Puzzle Agent tried to coax lorefags hard in the sequel and ended up all the mystery and narrative of the first game.
This. It had nothing to do with continuity. People just fell head over heels for Dominator after "My Fair Hatey" (despite there being plenty of other beautiful aliens in the show).
That's the main reason why it got so little attention until recently. Nobody wanted to watch a pure, cartoony animated series, made by CRAIG McCRACKEN, for that matter!
Op wasn't arguing against lore, and your reply compliments this.
He's saying that he does not like how SU, AT, GF and Sv does lore.
All of which are new and present lore in different styles.
If he prefers BW and Reboot to what he states in OP then he's delving into a different kind of lore catered to a different age range.
I really liked Reboot and BW, but you can't really compare the lore in these to OP's.
That lead me to believe that OP simply doesn't like new shows that have rather than the lore people want to incorporate on shows. Entirely subjective.
R&M is a new show with lore, why didn't he site it as an example?
Here is an example of an ongoing plot aka lore done right.
Although granted its not primarily aimed at kids and the episodes aren't shat out every week or so.
>Not aimed at kids
Exactly. I think OP should've reworded his post as, why can't lore in children's shows be a like VB and R&M.
The answer is that old lore wasnt trailered to children cartoons because of how complex it tends to become.
Eventually they have to try and overstep their boundaries and when they do its "Tumblr" tier.
This is simply a thread based on opinions, which tend to be the worst threads on /co/.
>Adventure time has been consistently good
It hasn't. I stopped viewing around season 4 or something.
Adventure Time is one of those cartoons which was intended for children, but autistic adults had to get their greasy claws on it and start to make it more "mature" for their personal tastes while disregarding the children.
There's no point in doing heavy literary criticism on works where the creators themselves are more concerned with just telling an interesting and coherent story.
I know a lot of people here dislike the "it's for kids" argument, but there is a limit to how much you can get from these shows.
Not him, but I wish they'd stay away from getting too deep into the lore in Rick & Morty. I don't care about the Federation or whatever and I just want to see Rick go on crazy adventures.
The only thing I can say in favor of this is that it's at least not intrusive and is basically restricted to a few episodes a season. I'm not that fussed on the politics of the League of Ricks, either. The idea of Rick's being basic guards is absurd, you'd think they'd have robots for that or something.
I never thought about that. Why did MI get less of a following?
My opinion doesn't matter on whether or not I think VB's lore is half assed.
Because that's a never ending debate considering its entirely subjective unless, you can explain what's so half assed about SU, AT and S vs. Lore.
What about R&M, why did you discount it? Did you know that it is half asses as well?
Oh, well thanks for proving it.
>The candidate that loses gets nothing, like their candidacy never even mastered
>Whiles the other one is president
>The less popular set loses and the more popular one wins
Which one is more relevant, the opinion/vote that made a candidate win or the one that was irrelevant because the other lost.
I mean, how fucking stupid can you get? That literally means that the less popular opinion, yours, doesn't matter.
>Responding to obvious b8
I'm tired of that shit yes, but I'll admit it works really well on me. The show will tease some cryptic thing in the background (like Bismuth from SU) and because I'll get curious about said thing, I'll keep watching every episode hoping I get all the questions answered
Nothing is wrong with having simple lore or whatever, but that shouldn't be the focus. Usually when people try to tell you why SU or Adventure Time or whatever is good, they'll mention a "complex overarching backstory" instead of humor or art
You had the whole fucking ass-end decade of the 2000s to enjoy your no-lore cartoons!
With your fucking teenage robots and monkey gym partners and the fucking camping lazlos and you know what?
They were SHIT. They were shallow, which normally isn't a problem, but since they were the only things on, then inevitably they went on for too fucking long and made EVERYTHING shit.
Want your no-lore cartoons? Keep watching Teen Titans Go! and Powerpuff Girls! That's what they're there for, no-lore repeatable bullshit for the sake of reruns! Take it! Take it like the fucking slut you are, you whore, you anal craving cockslut.
Couldn't agree more. Gravity Falls in particular was a lot more status quo than people seem to remember. You can count the number of heavily lore changing episodes on one hand. The only major change to the formula was adding Ford, which was met with mixed results. The Mayor died and was replaced with a nothing character, the government had their minds wiped before they could do anything, and Stan's memory wipe was undone with almost risible quickness. Even Bill is hinted not to have actually died at the end.
Steven Universe has this problem where the show is bloated (no pun intended) with these lore details that don't actually mean anything. Every single antagonist has some sort of redemption arc going on. It reminds me of that Fairly OddParents movie, Wishology, where they introduced all these history and lore details to the fairies that don't mean anything, and the threatening Darkness villain turns out to be a giant smilie face at the end.
Fuck you, I was born in 1997 and I'm tired of this shit too.
>thinking this generation of cartoons is god's gift to the earth because they have continuity
this is the state of western animation
>basic ass "lore"
I think shows are afraid to truly break status quo because of negative fan reactions.
Some fans are really possessive of these characters, and the worst thing the staff does is listen and cater to them.
Did you not see all the other examples that were given that were actually good?
The good lore in that period absolutely trumps the bad lore and slice of.life shit.
>Shifting goal posts
The only antagonist that had a redemption arc was peridot. Also Steven universe does shake up its status quo. In the recent episodes Greg gets rich and he doesn't lose his money like many shows would have a character do.
If you want to have kids instead of your autistic adult fanbase who shitpost all the time watch your show, why not just make it like Mighty Max and Swat Kats where it's 90% monster of the week and 10% continuity?
Craig said that he was CRAZY TO ADD LORE TO WONDER, but Disney didn't let him, so he had to put it on the last episodes.
He was really hyped for the opportunitty of cartoons to tell overarching stories with a rich lore.
Ironic that anti-lore fags always mention it.
>a much a magic cartoon where just about anything could happen?
That's Steven universe
>almost never had set "rules" any pretty much everything was written on the fly.
Steven universe, again
Cartoon-watching definition of lore, or at least the definition by which current western cartoons are "amazing" and which aren't, seems to be some combination of:
>things about the show CHANGE!
>those changes remain CONSISTENT!
>they're even referenced in dialogue or plots, but NOT AS JOKES!
>characters have BACKSTORIES!
>things that you thought were normal or cute at first are ACTUALLY DARK!
>everything has A DEEPER MEANING!
I'm not at all shitting on current shows and in fact I like some on the list in the OP, but those "requirements" actually seem really simple and dumb when listed out. Things like character development can often be handled really quickly and/or poorly too.
But then I guess that makes it sort of disappointing that a lot of American cartoons over the decades have barely even attempted some of those things. Not that every show should be "deepest lore," but it seems like some cartoons originally wanted to have a plot beyond problem of the week but, whether through restrictions from the network or just apathy from the production end, weren't really allowed to.
>waaah you don't agree with me e-everyone totally disagrees with you don't you feel stupid???
>using popularity as a metric for validity of opinions
I usually like lore, but you are a fucking baby.
SU actually has been building up a lot of Lore though, and is clearly building towards something. Gravity Fall also had pay off on a lot of stuff, like the two Stans etc.
The Lore in Adventure Time I can see that criticism of a bit more, but it's there mostly to set the background atmosphere.
>SU actually has been building up a lot of Lore though, and is clearly building towards something.
But the question still remains. Will it lead to a satisfactory conclusion or leave fans with mixed feelings?