Is anyone else tired of these cartoons with basic ass "lore" being pushed as the second coming of Christ?
>Adventure Time
>Steven Universe
>Gravity Falls
>Star Vs. (to a lesser extent)
All of them have bottom of the barrel simple "lore" but get praised because some background event gets shown later with an arguable payoff. It seems like nobody cares about shows that just tell fun stories with good animation anymore. Are these lorefags people who only watch cartoons and never experienced literally any other show? I feel it's that way nowadays and manchildren never watched anything besides what's on CN, Nick, or Disney.
Thoughts?
>>84585166
that's why i'm liking nick more these days, the shows are still just fun 11 minute comedy, like loud house and newer spongebob episodes
Lorefags are literal cancer on cartoons.
>>84585166
No. Why do you even have a problem with that?
Do you just not find the lore compelling? That's fine, but what would you prefer?
Fucking this. From Gravity Falls kinda-but-not-really ARG stuff, to Steven Universe's half assed world building. I'm honestly tired of these mediocre shows getting passes because of "muh lore" and "muh serialized stories." It was good in Avatar because they had a world that was planned out to the smallest details before Korra fucked it up.
>>84585317
Because it never works. Somewhere along the way, the plot shoots itself in the foot and leaves viewers with an unsatisifed emptiness upon watching it.
No, and i hate how some people are beginning to dislike story driven cartoons that actually attempt to make something of their show in favor of medicore drivel like uncle grandpa for being a "real cartoon".
>>84585317
Because no recent show has done it well. It's very clear they're taking influences from many other places yet can't actually pin down what made them good.
>>84585423
Oh boy. I sure love these cartoons with half assed lore because they include half assed lore. It's not like they need to actually do it well because tumblr faggots will eat it up because of the theory potential.
>>84585423
>show in favor of medicore drivel like uncle grandpa for being a "real cartoon".
Who are you quoting?
>>84585464
>>84585427
What "lore" are you talking about? Continuity?
>>84585509
Read the op?
>>84585542
If you think they're doing it wrong, how should they be doing it?
>>84585166
Adventure time has been consistently good, no idea why the hate.
Don't watch the others.
>lore is bad
>but these cartoons with lore are bad because they don't focus on building it enough
Whatever it takes to be contrarian, eh?
>>84585509
No continuity in cartoons is welcomed. I'm talking about building up this looming threat or hidden mysteries and having it amount to nothing when it finally comes to fruition.
>>84585607
Because even if nothing does come out of it, speculating is half the fun. There's literally nothing to talk about with shows like Uncle Grandpa because its not even good at what it does. And even good comedic shows like Gumball don't generate that much discussion.
>>84585581
Personally, I don't think it should be in the story if it's not in service to the characters. In Steven Universe, the lore doesn't help the world building at all. Humans are petty much oblivious to the gems despite being in a 6000 year long war with them. The world is almost exactly like ours, no gem tech is used anywhere, nobody looks into the gems, no explanation of why the gems aren't accountable for property damage. Let's compare it to say, Harry Potter where the magic world and its relationship with the "normal world" is clearly laid out. You get a clear sense that each part builds off of each other and the characters are greatly influenced by the past and the present.
>>84585166
The audience focusing on lore means the show is boring.
>lore has effectively replaced action and cartoons with an actual plot
Fuck everything
>>84585657
Because TV shows weren't meant to be scrutinized in that way. Saying a show is good because of theory potential isn't really a good thing because it doesn't acknowledge how good the parts of the show are themselves.
>>84585601
>Adventure Time has been consistently good
Fuck off
>>84585701
>Because TV shows weren't meant to be scrutinized in that way
Says who? Tons of medicore shows have been given headway from speculation. Just look at Dragon Ball Z. And you act as though the lore is the only thing praised about those shows.
>>84585741
Since when has Dragon Ball ever been a "lore" heavy series?
Think of all the intellectual effort wasted on lore analysis and speculation when people could be interpreting the narrative to derive meaning.
>>84585741
>Dragon Ball Z
>lore
>>84585741
Not really
>>84585810
>>84585779
Its the same type of lore that get people into Steven Universe. Who is gonna join the team, whats gonna happen next, what will these characters get themselves into and how will impact their relationships and the story.
>>84585741
Unless it was made to be specifically views that way (See: Gravity Falls) most shows aren't made to be obsessively analyzed and theorized nor is that a mark of quality.
>>84585837
Who the fuck ever cared about the lore of Dragonball when it was pretty much a magic cartoon where just about anything could happen? Dragon Ball almost never had set "rules" any pretty much everything was written on the fly.
I know this wasn't meant as an Uncle Grandpa thread, but, although I love the show, I gotta admit that it hasn't truly reached its potential.
With no overarching story, the show's success depends on its characters. Pizza Steve may be annoying, but he makes up for it by being aware of this and still having insecurities. Plus, he bounces well off of Mr. Gus, who's literally a perfect character all around, IMO.
Uncle Grandpa himself pretty much hinders the show. He's usually just portrayed as an idiot who constantly falls for Pizza Steve's shtick. Were the show to focus more on how he loves to help everyone (like the Aunt Grandma episodes), he could be a bit more likable, like a more quirky Wander. Don't get me wrong; Uncle G has his moments, but he generally falls flat.
With both WOY and UG being cartoony cartoons that take place in different locations almost every episode, it's almost impossible for me not to compare them. The former does comedic timing far better than the latter, unfortunately.
Uncle Grandpa's definitely gotten better lately, but we'll have to wait and see what these next ~50 episodes'll be like (if CN actually airs them).
>>84585922
And even then, Wander Over Yonder despite being a really good show, only got popular when they added a new character, showing signs of the continuity and lore that attracts people to a show.
>>84585993
>only got popular when they added a new character
*waifu. WOY threads when to shit because of waifufags.
>>84585166
>I hate what's popular these days
There,I fixed it for (You)
>>84585837
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY ever gave a flying fuck about the relationships in Dragon Ball Z
>>84586090
(You)
This thread is just another one of those subjective threads that have vague "solutions" to "problems" with popular shows.
Of course there are some bad AT, SU, WoY episodes, but that doesn't mean the lore in the show is done poorly.
>>84585317
Lore is worthless when its boring and the show always goes back to status quo
>>84586200
Examples?
>>84586200
>my opinion matters
If on average people disagree with you how do you consider your opinions right?
Fuck lore. Give me good character interactions and an engaging story.
Things like Puzzle Agent tried to coax lorefags hard in the sequel and ended up all the mystery and narrative of the first game.
>>84586269
>Fuck lore, give me lore
>>84586217
Star vs and GF lore isnt particularly unique or takes much of an interesting take on old cliches
>>84585607
I think all these anti-lore fags are just butt hurt Gravity Falls fans sad that their "revolutionary" show only had one mystery worth following.
>>84585166
Lore isn't bad but there trying to use Lore instead of an ongoing story so it's not as good as a payoff.
>fuck anything new
>The thread
>>84586288
You don't need lore for a good story and good character interactions.
If that was the case, then the Star Wars prequels are better than the original trilogy.
>>84585993
>>84586054
This. It had nothing to do with continuity. People just fell head over heels for Dominator after "My Fair Hatey" (despite there being plenty of other beautiful aliens in the show).
That's the main reason why it got so little attention until recently. Nobody wanted to watch a pure, cartoony animated series, made by CRAIG McCRACKEN, for that matter!
>>84586349
Your analogy makes no sense within the context.
Which Forster proves that you abolutely don't know what you're dissatisfied about.
>further
>>84585741
>dragon ball
>mediochre
You need to be older than 18 to post here.
>>84586499
/thread
>>84586359
>No perverted waifufags thinking with their dicks wanted to watch a pure, cartoony animated series, made by CRAIG McCRACKEN, for that matter!
FTFY
>>84586344
Lore driven shows are not new. Things like ReBoot and Beast Wars were really plot heavy, and those are the ones I can vividly remember.
>>84586562
Op wasn't arguing against lore, and your reply compliments this.
He's saying that he does not like how SU, AT, GF and Sv does lore.
All of which are new and present lore in different styles.
If he prefers BW and Reboot to what he states in OP then he's delving into a different kind of lore catered to a different age range.
I really liked Reboot and BW, but you can't really compare the lore in these to OP's.
That lead me to believe that OP simply doesn't like new shows that have rather than the lore people want to incorporate on shows. Entirely subjective.
R&M is a new show with lore, why didn't he site it as an example?
>>84586359
Craig wanted it to have lore and a plot from the start but Disney said no.
Here is an example of an ongoing plot aka lore done right.
Although granted its not primarily aimed at kids and the episodes aren't shat out every week or so.
>>84586722
Because Rick and Morty isn't a children's show.
>>84586836
>Not aimed at kids
Exactly. I think OP should've reworded his post as, why can't lore in children's shows be a like VB and R&M.
The answer is that old lore wasnt trailered to children cartoons because of how complex it tends to become.
Eventually they have to try and overstep their boundaries and when they do its "Tumblr" tier.
This is simply a thread based on opinions, which tend to be the worst threads on /co/.
Mystery Incorporated did lore pretty well.
I think Adventure Time and Gravity Falls just got people cynical about "muh lore".
>>84586298
But what does that have to do with the status quo?
>>84586916
What does Rick and Morty do with its lore that the shows in the Op don't? Is Rick and Morty an example of lore done right?
>>84585601
>Adventure time has been consistently good
It hasn't. I stopped viewing around season 4 or something.
Adventure Time is one of those cartoons which was intended for children, but autistic adults had to get their greasy claws on it and start to make it more "mature" for their personal tastes while disregarding the children.
>>84585784
There's no point in doing heavy literary criticism on works where the creators themselves are more concerned with just telling an interesting and coherent story.
I know a lot of people here dislike the "it's for kids" argument, but there is a limit to how much you can get from these shows.
>>84587138
Rick and Morty doesn't really have a lore.
It has continuity but not much lore at least not yet I suppose.
>>84587016
Mystery Inc is pretty much Gravity Falls but better
>>84587138
No, it's an example of a show with lore that doesn't get shitted on every day.
Same with VB.
Thus showing OP's bias.
>>84587138
Not him, but I wish they'd stay away from getting too deep into the lore in Rick & Morty. I don't care about the Federation or whatever and I just want to see Rick go on crazy adventures.
The only thing I can say in favor of this is that it's at least not intrusive and is basically restricted to a few episodes a season. I'm not that fussed on the politics of the League of Ricks, either. The idea of Rick's being basic guards is absurd, you'd think they'd have robots for that or something.
>>84587173
It has enough
>Pilot, Potion no. 9, Christmas special, daycare ep, show me what you got, finale
>>84587188
Except they don't have half assed lore, showing your own
>>84587174
I never thought about that. Why did MI get less of a following?
>>84587394
This is the most subjective statement in the thread.
Again, your opinion doesn't matter of the greater majority doesn't share it.
>>84587491
What half assed lore does VB have?
>>84586722
>All of which are new and present lore in different styles.
No?
>>84587504
Lore that spans like 50 years and features a multitude of recurring characters.
>>84587504
My opinion doesn't matter on whether or not I think VB's lore is half assed.
Because that's a never ending debate considering its entirely subjective unless, you can explain what's so half assed about SU, AT and S vs. Lore.
>They
What about R&M, why did you discount it? Did you know that it is half asses as well?
>>84585166
>"how dare cartoons have a story line"
Fixed it for you, OP.
>>84587491
By that logic, Hillary Clinton is a great candidate because she has more support that God Master Trump. Fucking kill yourself, faggot.
>>84587575
What lore does R&M even have? It's basically just as lose as Futurama where anything can change based on the episode. When did I even discount it?
>>84585166
>Steven Universe
>basic lore
topkek
>>84587581
>How dare he not like shitty shows
Fixed it for you.
>>84587603
It's lore comes in the form of Rick and his past fighting the Galactic Federation, among other things.
>>84587602
The presidential election is literally a popularity contest you dense faggot
>>84587614
(You)
>>84587618
>steven universe and gravity falls
>shit shows
Just castrate yourself now, anon.
>>84587636
No fucking shit. That's the point, dumbass.
>>84587650
>you should inflict harm on yourself because you don't like a show
Calm down, friend.
>>84587678
Oh, well thanks for proving it.
>The candidate that loses gets nothing, like their candidacy never even mastered
>Whiles the other one is president
>The less popular set loses and the more popular one wins
Which one is more relevant, the opinion/vote that made a candidate win or the one that was irrelevant because the other lost.
I mean, how fucking stupid can you get? That literally means that the less popular opinion, yours, doesn't matter.
>>84586359
I wouldn't have pulled out that last lady's chair; I would've BECOME the chair.
>>84587640
(You)
>>84587738
>Responding to obvious b8
Good la
>>84587738
Do I really need to explain to you how ass backwards that logic is? Jesus Christ, use some fucking forethought here.
>>84587831
Shh, don't spoil it, anon. I wanna see how far I can take this.
>same fags responding to each other
Does eBay have lives to auction off?
Because these guys need one.
>>84587082
Adventure Time has interesting lore but is a slave to status quo
GF and Star Vs are willing to change it but have meh lore
>>84585166
I'm tired of that shit yes, but I'll admit it works really well on me. The show will tease some cryptic thing in the background (like Bismuth from SU) and because I'll get curious about said thing, I'll keep watching every episode hoping I get all the questions answered
Nothing is wrong with having simple lore or whatever, but that shouldn't be the focus. Usually when people try to tell you why SU or Adventure Time or whatever is good, they'll mention a "complex overarching backstory" instead of humor or art
>>84586229
What?
>>84587928
>Status quo
Those shows would meaningless if it didn't cater to studies status quo.
They wouldn't be considered lore without it.
>>84587928
Also Steven Universe pretends its a show with lots of lore and continuity
But is as formula as any sitcom for most of its episodes
>>84588028
>Pretends
lol
>>84587429
It was Scooby Doo, which apparently means nothing good can come from it.Even though it's better than most shows nowadays.
>>84588021
Remember when PB became a 13 year old?
Remember when Finn lost his arm?
Only time when the status quo is changed is when its changed for characters who dont matter
>>84588067
It does /sug/
Don't you have a nuke to dance around or something?
>>84585166
Look man!
You had the whole fucking ass-end decade of the 2000s to enjoy your no-lore cartoons!
With your fucking teenage robots and monkey gym partners and the fucking camping lazlos and you know what?
They were SHIT. They were shallow, which normally isn't a problem, but since they were the only things on, then inevitably they went on for too fucking long and made EVERYTHING shit.
Want your no-lore cartoons? Keep watching Teen Titans Go! and Powerpuff Girls! That's what they're there for, no-lore repeatable bullshit for the sake of reruns! Take it! Take it like the fucking slut you are, you whore, you anal craving cockslut.
>>84588119
Yes I remember those things.
But I'm not sure you know what status quo means. Those are not political nor social issues
>>84588156
(You)
>>84588152
If you know SU has lore and continuity why contradict yourself?
Why even bring it up as a topic if it didn't have lore and continuity on the first place?
>>84588193
Eat shit!
>>84588166
Really man?
>>84588193
Not him but your non lore nonsense was on average, shit.
Prove me wrong.
>>84588209
(You)
(You)
>>84588198
I meant it does pretend you stupid shit.
Do you need everything spoon fed to you?
>>84588215
What does status quo mean to you, exactly.
>>84587928
Couldn't agree more. Gravity Falls in particular was a lot more status quo than people seem to remember. You can count the number of heavily lore changing episodes on one hand. The only major change to the formula was adding Ford, which was met with mixed results. The Mayor died and was replaced with a nothing character, the government had their minds wiped before they could do anything, and Stan's memory wipe was undone with almost risible quickness. Even Bill is hinted not to have actually died at the end.
Steven Universe has this problem where the show is bloated (no pun intended) with these lore details that don't actually mean anything. Every single antagonist has some sort of redemption arc going on. It reminds me of that Fairly OddParents movie, Wishology, where they introduced all these history and lore details to the fairies that don't mean anything, and the threatening Darkness villain turns out to be a giant smilie face at the end.
>>84587650
>t. Someone born in 1997
>>84588415
Fuck you, I was born in 1997 and I'm tired of this shit too.
>thinking this generation of cartoons is god's gift to the earth because they have continuity
this is the state of western animation
>>84588261
I got what you were saying, but it doesn't make sense.
>>84588156
>2000s
>No lore cartoons
Hello child
>>84588449
>This meaningless """"'war"""""
smuganimeface.jpg
>>84585166
>basic ass "lore"
Someone's mad.
>>84588356
I think shows are afraid to truly break status quo because of negative fan reactions.
Some fans are really possessive of these characters, and the worst thing the staff does is listen and cater to them.
>>84588226
Wew lad because there were no shitty lore shoes like Lunatics Unleased in the 00s
>>84588772
>One example
>>84588772
Was Loonatics really shit? I never watched the show.
>>84588772
And then there was JL(unlimited), TT, MXL, Samarai Jack and others.
What's your point?
>>84588871
Yeah that shit wasn't good.
Good idea, poor execution.
>>84588881
>>84588772
Not to mention Duck Dodgers and the 2 Batman shows
>>84588817
Da Boom Crew
>>84588881
>What's your point?
Lore isn't a mark of quality
>>84588982
Did you not see all the other examples that were given that were actually good?
The good lore in that period absolutely trumps the bad lore and slice of.life shit.
>>84589013
>Shifting goal posts
>>84588356
The only antagonist that had a redemption arc was peridot. Also Steven universe does shake up its status quo. In the recent episodes Greg gets rich and he doesn't lose his money like many shows would have a character do.
>>84589043
How is that shifting goal post when that was the entire point you retard?
>>84589043
According to whom?
>>84587155
Well I'm not a child, so that doesn't much bother me.
I can appreciate the old episodes and the new ones.
>36 posters
>pol posting
Mmmh
>>84586836
I love venture bros but they gotta cut this eight episode season every 3 years shit out.
>they can't appreciate both kinds of shows
Close-minded
>>84589352
Fucking this.
Opinions like these are too rare..
If you want to have kids instead of your autistic adult fanbase who shitpost all the time watch your show, why not just make it like Mighty Max and Swat Kats where it's 90% monster of the week and 10% continuity?
>>84589102
>n the recent episodes Greg gets rich and he doesn't lose his money like many shows would have a character do.
Rebecca sugar actually did it, the absolute mad maiden!
>>84589102
Archer also does this at times.
Like the Seamus tatoo and Bary.
>>84589102
>Greg gets rich and he doesn't lose his money
[citation needed]
>>84589102
Did th Greg episode even air yet? I don't think it has. How do you know he doesn't lose it all in the end? We see him spending most of it in the preview alone.
>>84585693
It usually EVERY action cartoon with a plot has lore. What the hell are you even talking about Fred?
>>84589828
>>84590261
CN put out promos for all the eps airing this week.
https://youtu.be/aUxvWIndSTw
>>84585993
Kek.
Craig said that he was CRAZY TO ADD LORE TO WONDER, but Disney didn't let him, so he had to put it on the last episodes.
He was really hyped for the opportunitty of cartoons to tell overarching stories with a rich lore.
Ironic that anti-lore fags always mention it.
>>84585166
No, because I'm not a faggot. I don't go around complaining that someone likes something for different reasons than me, so why are you?`
>>84590645
Because he was able to make a good show despite the lack of lore.
>>84590671
>No, because I'm not a faggot. I don't go around complaining that someone is complaining about something for different reasons than me, so why are you?`
>>84590745
Wander is shit though.
>>84590774
Responding =/= complaining. Someone has a thought bubbling, then I respond. It's not a complaint.
>>84590789
(You)
>>84590671
>Someone is discussing cartoons on a cartoon board
New around these parts?
>>84590870
No, I'm not new to the concept of /co/ being faggots, why?
>>84590870
>Discussing
More like pushing opinions down people's throats like it's fact
>>84591123
Irony
>>84591193
>Irony
Honestly, go back to school
You dumb faggot.
>>84591778
Irony
What even is lore?
>>84585900
>a much a magic cartoon where just about anything could happen?
That's Steven universe
>almost never had set "rules" any pretty much everything was written on the fly.
Steven universe, again
>>84592832
Steven Universe clearly has more rules than DB. Do you even watch the show?
>>84590457
Did you not read the fucking post?
>>84586093
You haven't met any Dragonball yaoi fangirls, I see.
>>84585166
All of the shows you mentioned ARE fun stories with good animation.
Cartoons can be fun without being pointless LOL RANDUM shitfests.
>>84594209
>pointless LOL RANDUM shitfests
You just described Adventure Time to a tee.
>>84591946
Cartoon-watching definition of lore, or at least the definition by which current western cartoons are "amazing" and which aren't, seems to be some combination of:
>things about the show CHANGE!
>those changes remain CONSISTENT!
>they're even referenced in dialogue or plots, but NOT AS JOKES!
>characters have BACKSTORIES!
>things that you thought were normal or cute at first are ACTUALLY DARK!
>SYMBOLISM!
>everything has A DEEPER MEANING!
>CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!
etc.
I'm not at all shitting on current shows and in fact I like some on the list in the OP, but those "requirements" actually seem really simple and dumb when listed out. Things like character development can often be handled really quickly and/or poorly too.
But then I guess that makes it sort of disappointing that a lot of American cartoons over the decades have barely even attempted some of those things. Not that every show should be "deepest lore," but it seems like some cartoons originally wanted to have a plot beyond problem of the week but, whether through restrictions from the network or just apathy from the production end, weren't really allowed to.
>>84586229
>waaah you don't agree with me e-everyone totally disagrees with you don't you feel stupid???
also
>using popularity as a metric for validity of opinions
I usually like lore, but you are a fucking baby.
>>84586229
Fuck off plebbit
>>84585607
SU actually has been building up a lot of Lore though, and is clearly building towards something. Gravity Fall also had pay off on a lot of stuff, like the two Stans etc.
The Lore in Adventure Time I can see that criticism of a bit more, but it's there mostly to set the background atmosphere.
>>84595963
>SU actually has been building up a lot of Lore though, and is clearly building towards something.
But the question still remains. Will it lead to a satisfactory conclusion or leave fans with mixed feelings?
>>84590671
Oh wow it's not like a thing that's been happening since forever!
http://www.inthe00s.com/archive/inthe00s/smf/1094278400.shtml
