The Punisher is so much better than Batman, he's what Batman was originally supposed to be...a killer of criminals, but Punisher does it without the pretentious yuppy background of Batman as well by making him a guy who's actually had real problems and been through shit
>>84582170
I like Punisher as much as the next guy, but why does everybody feel the need to compare him to Batman?
Yeah they are both dark and brooding and street level and have lost people, but they're pretty different basically everyhwere else.
>>84582170
t. Zack Snyder
>>84582243
>tfw Batman v Superman was Punisher v Miracleman
>>84582203
Yeah I don't get it either. Same with Midnighter, everyone says he's gay Batman but the only thing they have in common is a similar outfit. Personality, powers, origin etc. are all completely different.
>>84582203
Because he's everything Batman would be if he was better
>>84582170
>The Punisher is so much better than Batman
how many times did he save the earth?
>>84582436
How many franks did Batman frank?
>>84582436
>how many times did he save the earth?
>muh feats
Go back to Death Battle, newfag
>>84582436
How much plot armour he obtained?
They're both shit
>>84582634
>muh feats
how else can you say one character is better than the other?
>>84582751
It's not plot armor. It's intelligence and strength.
Just read Welcome back, Frank.
>the polar bears
Sometimes Frank is too great
I laughed at the part in JLA/Avengers whereBatman decided to beat up the Punisher for shooting drug dealers right after Batman got done telling everyone not to interfere with anything in the Marvel world no matter how bad it was. Even Plastic-man called him out on that shit, IIRC.
Cute.
>>84582170
Punisher is a fucking jobber. He's been a joke in mainstream Marvel for years.
>>84582794
>how else can you say one character is better than the other?
By characterization...holy shit
>>84583779
>muh death battle
>i dont read comics
>i read wikis and buy marvel shirts at hot topic
>>84583779
Punisher never set out to "beat up other heroes" or even supervillians. He's the guy who kills organized crime.
>>84582170
Three reasons Punisher > Batman.
1. Zero recidivism rate.
2. Doesn't claim a city, lets other heroes battle big villain threats
3. Doesn't dress up a harem of young Boys as Kid Castigate or suchlike.
>>84583912
>implying super villains are never part of organized crime
>>84582170
Okay, I like both though.
>>84583962
The reason Punisher doesn't kill super villains is the same reason Batman can't keep them locked up.
They are popular so they must return, don't be a fucking idiot who doesn't read comics...oh wait you can't not be that.
>>84583897
What the fuck are you going on about? Look up his history on Marvel Database. He's fucking clown shoes. The only decent Punisher (Max) was killed in some stupid fucking crossover event.
>>84584069
>Look up his history on Marvel Database.
Lmao, thanks for proving his point.
>>84584023
>The reason Punisher doesn't kill super villains is the same reason Batman can't keep them locked up.
So how does that make him better than batman, if both unable to keep any remotely relevant criminal off streets?
>>84583974
Me too.
>>84584069
You're a fucking idiot...
>>84584069
The Max Universe Frank died at the end of his series
>>84585954
>Whats the point of eating if im going to be hungry again?
>whats the point of wiping my ass if im going to shit again
>>84586265
>>whats the point of wiping my ass if im going to shit again
I've struggled with this one for a while. Why do you guys wipe?
>>84586295
If you wipe your ass you'll become as bad as an ass wiper.
>>84582170
But Batman doesn't just want to protect the innocent, he also wants to redeem his villains.
>>84586396
>fuck
>>84586396
He failed at both, how many times did the villains escaped and how many innocents pointlessly died after they escaped yet again instead of just killing the villains the first time? guy should be more traumatized with the amount of innocent lives lost because of his morals than his parents' death.
>>84586546
t. Jason Todd
>>84582203
I feel the same way. Also, people talking about the Punisher as if he's actually meant to be heroic and not the tragic, broken protagonist of a revenge saga in the gangster genre weirds me out. Frank would never consider himself a hero.
>>84582310
To be fair, they do actually have something else in common, or at least they did at one point: Midnighter was originally parodying the Wizard Magazine Preptime God Batman that was in vogue at the time, hence glorious bullshit like "I had a back-up heart installed!"
>>84586396
>Implying a homicidal clown who kills people regularly, some guy with fear gas, a gangster with a black skull, and a serial killer who puts stitches for each person he kills on his body can be redeemed.
>>84582203
Because /co/ is full of autists who have hardly read anything other than comic books, and Big 2 comics at that, and so they think medium=genre and thus feel the need to compare Punisher to other comic book characters and not, say, to other characters in revenge stories like The Count of Monte Cristo or Beatrix Kiddo.
>>84582170
>he's what Batman was originally supposed to be
>Batman was the world greatest detective
>Castle was a cop
I think it's the other way around
You're comparing a character who is literally only there to sell ads to babies and another who literally only exists to sell ads to edgy teens
They have two completely different demographics
>>84586546
Is there any story where this is brought up? Besides maybe red hood?
>>84582436
Purgatory and Revelation, though nobody likes to talk about those.
I like how Batman just hangs out and is a founding member of a team of super powered dudes. While Punisher probably only hangs out with Wolverine.
>>84588294
I don't picture the Punisher as having friends. And he probably smells like shit
>>84583948
>Kid Castigate
underage keks
>>84582170
Guys, if you're going to argue over Marvel vs. DC, at least match up Moon Knight with Batman. They're more similar than Frank is to Bruce.Moon Knight is miles better
>>84588733
>>84586225
Nice rebuttal, dumbshit.
>>84585663
Are you implying they just make stuff up?
ITT:Moralfags VS Edgelords in the next Death Battle
>>84582170
It helps that Batman has become a parody of himself.
Don't get me wrong, Frank is a parody of himself on many occasions, but it works better for him because he's too extreme.
Anyway, as a lifelong Batman fan, I have to admit I'm terribly dissapointed in almost everything in the past 20 years.
Batman in JLA is a joke, Morrison Batman is not Batman,just Grant's headcanon, Snyder Batman hasn't been good for ages, and the batfamily keeps growing unecessarily.
Batman was all about lore and atmosphere, now it's plain bullshit and pandering.
>>84589048
punisher fans don't strike me as moralfags
>>84589230
Which Batman was the crazy hobo that kidnapped Robin, beat the shit out of the Green Lantern, and was a all around maniac?
>>84589344
All of them.
>>84582170
i agree also garth ennis punisher was the best punisher ever written he made awesome villians with the russian and barracuda
The Punisher is Batman for teenagers. Batman is The Punisher for kids.
>>84582170
>one note le grim dark edgelord
>better than Batman
Fuck off
>>84588396
You smell like shit LOL
>>84582310
Midnighter was created as a Batman parody with Apollo as his gay (Superman) lover. With Apollo as a flying brick with face lazers and Midnighter having a preptime computer in his brain.
>>84586396
Batman needs to get over himself and just do the world a favor and kill his villains. No mercy to evil.
>>84589518
How is Batman not "one note"
For that matter, what comic book character isn't "one note" ?
You're a fucking idiot, pal
>>84589472
Then who is for adults? Golgo 13?
>>84587373
Never got any Edmund Dantes vibes from Frank. Just because it's revenge doesn't make it similar. I see more in common with Paul Kersey from Death Wish.
>>84589344
All-Star Batman and Robin Batman is probably the craziest incarnation of the character. Frank Miller took everything that people took from his Batman runs (the grim, gritty insanity) and cranked it up to 11.
Legitimately the funniest Batman comic I've ever read
I don't know why people consider Punisher edgy teen material when he's been shown to be pretty human at times.
>>84589660
>gary stu the character
>for adults
>>84589750
What a cutie
>>84589628
Frank is literally "I kill people, I think I'll go kill some more people, and I've decided to continue killing people."
Batman isn't just his costume. He's also Bruce Wayne, and he has far more character depth and exploration than the Punisher ever has. The Punisher's most interesting characters are usually his side characters or cameos. Fuck, Daredevil is a better example than Batman, Daredevil explores themes of guilt, relationships, law, religion and killing. You're literally retarded to say comic book characters are all one note just because your favorite character's most interesting trait is a fucking skull.
>>84589823
You've clearly never read a Punisher book shut up
>>84590386
Currently reading the entire Ennis run. Stay mad, faggot.
>>84590946
you'll change your mind when you're done. or maybe as early as Mother Russia and The Slavers.
>>84589823
>killing is bad hurrrr
This board is not for people under 18
>>84590977
>missingthefuckingpoint.jpeg
>>84590973
About halfway through Mother Russia and Frank's defining character trait and motive is "I kill criminals". His supporting cast is infinitely more interesting than he is.
>>84591637
True. The thing about punisher max is that there's not much characterization in frank. it's almost always about the villains. frank just kills, it's how and why he kills them is the fun part. plus it's really easy to get into the punisher. all you need to know is that his family got gunned down by mobs and that's it. personally i think the slavers and up is down, black is white is the best max arcs so you're going to love the next ones. oh and if you havent read welcome back frank, do it or just the third issue. if you don't agree with his justification, the you won't like frank.
>>84582751
You can't really defend Frank "Tank a Penance Stare" Castle with accusations of the other guy having plot armor.
>>84591938
Frank doesn't kill innocents though. he almost killed himself when he thought he killed a child by accident.
>>84591909
I never meant to say he's a bad character. I like Punisher comics, I just always thought Frank was the least interesting character in them. The only time I found him really interesting was in "Born", and he's a fucking lunatic for the whole story.
>>84592134
That's retarded.
>>84591938
>"Tank a Penance Stare"
Do you even know how that works?
>>84592134
That's unrealistic in a world where the Punisher takes a chain gun and fires it at a house filled with children literally in the beginning of Punisher MAX
He does not care and in the course of his war would have killed at least a handful of innocent people if not dozens
It's why vigilantes are generally frowned upon, because if the cops fuck up as much as they do, what makes Frank fuckin' Castle so special?
>>84592633
The writers can't seem to decide.
But if remorse was a qualifier it would be completely useless to begin with.
>>84582170
>another Amalgam universe happens
>this time Batman and Punisher are fused
>he's the Banisher
>sends criminals to the shadow realm
....
You guys think Best Tiger could take on Midnighter?
>>84595390
He doesn't kill innocents. that's his power.none were killed in his attack on the cesares. he killed a bunch of vigilantes that basically were worshipping him because they accidentally killed innocents. that's just how he was written.
>>84582203
also both of their families got murdered by guns
>>84588396
Microchip
>>84597526
and jigsaw's son
>>84592134
>Punisher never killed an innocent guy!!!
this is almost as bad s the Hulk never killing anyone by accident.
it also proves how comicbooks are for manchildren, since they want their "dark anti-hero vigilante" but don't actually have the guts to take it seriously
and to finish it
>fought in vietnam
>never killed an innocent
sure thing, americuck
>>84598201
Wasn't that retconned to Iraq war vet?
>>84598233
as in netflix's daredevil?
>>84598515
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Don't really keep up with Punisher and after he went Frankenstein I dropped it. Heard that some time after that his origin was retconned to Iraq war vet to keep him young.
>>84598233
Last time I heard he's a Gulf War vet now. It'll most likely be retconned to Iraq War in the future.
>>84588733
Moon knight is as deep as a cereal bowl and his special moves all suck is MCoC
>>84598201
'Nam soldiers didn't kill innocents, that was a lie put together by the American media to strengthen anti-war sentiment and further ruin the lives of incoming war veterans.
>>84598825
>Dey was good boys
>Dindu nuffin
>Was going to church and getting mo money for they Fortunate Son records
>>84598825
There were incidents were American soldiers did kill civilians, but a good majority was done by the completely inept South Vietnamese army, especially all the misplaced air strikes. It's ignorant to assume every single American soldier in Vietnam was bloodthirsty killer who enjoyed drinking the blood of Vietnamese babies.
>>84598872
You realize most of them didn't want to go to war, right? They were conscripted, which means they had to go risk their lives for something they didn't even believe in and when they got home they were jeered at and ostracized by the same people who claimed to be on their side.
>>84582170
Remember when Batman saves Joker from Punisher and his only justification for this was "That's not how we do things in Gotham"?
>>84587114
This. Frank isn't a hero, he's an example. He's a reminder of what happens to someone when the American dream fails them.
>>84598825
>soldiers fighting off an invading country don't count as innocents! or the thousand of civilian collateral damage!
I see, after all only americans are freedom fighters
>>84588733
I haven't read Moon Knight, but I always compared Batman to Daredevil.
>>84599507
>soldiers fighting off an invading country don't count as innocents!
I mean, yeah. They're soldiers, and therefore not civilians, because a soldier is the polar opposite of a civilian. American freedom fighters weren't considered civilians either. Are you retarded?
>>84599553
>being innocent only refers to civilians
Lmao, and you call other people retards
>>84598201
>Take it seriously
>Fictional
The point of Hulk is that he was unjustly hunted down. If he kills people and doesn't just fight people who bother him then it defeats the point of the character.
If you don't like the characters, fine, but don't shit on them for not following your bullshit, arbitrary "realism" rules.
>>84584023
This. Even the ones he definitely kills comes back in stupid ways, Jigsaw being the biggest offender of them.
>>84599507
I said this before and I'll say it again, most 'Nam soldiers weren't there by choice.
>>84582294
>Punisher v Miracleman
>implying Miracleman would've given even one warning before killing his enemy off
>>84599667
>Yeah you guys, these insurgents who indiscriminately murdered Southern Vietnamese civilians or put them in labor camps for not buying their whole communism schtick are totally the good guys :^)
Seriously epic post man, how do you even come up with this crazy stuff?
>>84589660
He's the Japanese Bond. Truly a magnificent penis!
>>84599131
Oh boy! This will surely not lead to countless innocents dying!
>>84598825
Born On the 4th of July told me otherwise.
>>84599131
>and his only justification for this was "That's not how we do things in Gotham"?
Doesn't one of his kids shoot people?
>>84600536
Yeah but he's a bad boy who doesn't wear his tights.
>>84600379
>>84600536
>>84600602
How can that fucking guy look himself in the mirror? He just, for fuck's sake. I mean come on.
FRANK THE BAT!
