Inspired by the other thread; I want to get the opinion of /co/ on who they think do better in four areas.
>Street Level
>SUPERhero Level
>Cosmic Level
>Spirutual Level
>Street Level is figures like the Bat Family, Daredevil, Punisher, and Green Arrow.
>Superhero Level is obvious, figures from Spider-Man all the way up to Superman.
>Cosmic would be... actually, it's an area I'm to this day not particularly familiar with, as it doesn't interest me. Still, Silver Surfer, Guardians, and I assume the Green Lanterns and Lobo.
>Spiritual I decided to add, because it's something that interests me as a theology student. I love Constantine, Lucifer, Sandman and such, and in comparison Marvel always seemed really dull, trying to sidestep the whole area or ignore the elephant in the room, having figures such as Ghost Rider and Mephisto, and yet otherwise trying to make out it's all cosmic.
Marvel
DC
DC
DC
I can't argue against Daredevil. DC stomps everything else.
DC
DC
DC
DC
DC
>>84548848
Marvel
Low super heroes Marvel
High Super heroes DC
Low cosmic DC
high cosmic Marvel
DC
>>84548848
Why is the Hulk aroused?
Why isn't Daredevil looking off into space?
>>84548848
Also...
>tfw nothing as amazing (in concept) as this crossover will happen again due to company wars.
It's a shame it all got so antagonistic. The entire meta of the comic is they are different sides of the same coin. Troubled
siblings.
Its my oldest trade that survived my childhood, not really learning to take care of my stuff til my mid teens, and it's incredibly nostalgic. It's only a shame it takes place in the days of mullets. Oddly, Iron Man is totally absent if I recall, I'll have to have a read through again.
Marvel
DC
Marvel
DC
>>84548897
Marvel's street level tends to be comfy, even when it gets pretty dark, wheras Gotham is most of DCs street level and it can be awesome but unnerving and not particularly comfy.
I think the reason DC is so strong in the other areas is that it's more a massive myth, with legends, as opposed to Marvel's people with powers who put on costumes. Marvel is in many ways more accessible/shallow, where DC is more epic in scope/depth. Oddly, I think this goes some of the way to explaining why the MCU translated so well, but it might be difficult with DC.
>>84548848
DC
DC
DC
DC
DC
DC
haven't read cosmic in years
haven't read mystic in longer
>>84548848
>Street Level
DC
>SUPERhero Level
DC
>Cosmic Level
DC
>Spirutual Level
Just say fucking magic, man, people know what the magic communities in comic book universes are. Anyway;
DC.
>>84549086
>Marvel's street level tends to be comfy, even when it gets pretty dark
See Born Again, which is probably(?) the best street level Marvel comic ever published. It's not comfy. I don't care your retarded, oft-repeated definition that DC is myth and Marvel isn't either.
>>84548848
>Street Level
>Bat Family
No.
>Superhero Level
>Spirutual Level
No one uses these terms.
Marvel has better street level
I can't decide at superhero level
Cosmic is a weird one. Going purely by your definition, Marvel is probably better. Marvel's cosmology is really rich and complex, while DC mostly just has New Gods and Green Lanterns.
On the other hand, DC has a better multiverse. Its multiverse cosmology is way cooler imo. Although at that point it starts to blend heavily into the "spiritual" level you're talking about
Marvel
Marvel
Marvel
Marvel
The only correct answers.
>>84549424
>Just say fucking magic, man, people know what the magic communities in comic book universes are.
Except I don't mean 'magic'. Marvel and DC are both pretty well represented on that front. When I say spiritual, that's what I mean. DC has the whole biblical war in heaven going on, the realms of concept, the greek gods, and so on. Marvel has... Mephisto. And Ghost Rider occasionally has a cameo from the devil.
>>84549467
I'll take a look, anon. I'm always happy to cede a point if I'm wrong. I would challenge that one book is enough to argue an 'oft-repeated' definition though.
>>84549583
>Image related.
>>84548924
Sounds about right
>Street
Marvel. Can't beat Daredevil.
>Superheroes
Always loved Spider-Man and the X-Men, but i think DC handles overpowered beings in a better way overall. So DC.
>Cosmic
Marvel, easily.
>Magic/Supernatural
DC, easily.
>>84549751
I put DC above Marvel in most of these categories, as you saw, but if you think all Marvel street level is comfy and Marvel doesn't tackle spiritual themes you REALLY ought to go read Born Again. It is one of the best cape stories ever.
>>84549955
Oh, wow, that looks pretty grim and amazing. A shame i wasn't a fan of this period of art, but I can look past it. Is this same-Karen as the Netflix show? Because she has a dark future coming up, looking at this.
>>84549913
>implying Marvel has any cosmic as good as L.E.G.I.O.N.
Giffen's best work is at DC, and that extends to cosmic.
>>84549690
Agreed
>>84548848
DC in all categories because Batman dominates each with sufficient preptime.
>>84548848
>Street Level
Hard, but i'll go with Marvel on this.
>SUPERhero Level
Another hard one, i'll go with DC because i dislike the Avengers.
>Cosmic Level
Marvel
>Spirutual Level
DC, Ghost Rider has a great concept but is really underrated.
>>84548848
Has DC ever mentioned their "Brother" after this event?
>>84553827
I think the current heads of both companies would prefer to forget that, for a brief period of history, the two franchises were closer and made more sense to cross over than DC and Watchmen.
Joker alludes to a previous meeting with Spider-Man though (this is Ben Reilly, and Joker apparently met Peter) but it must have been before my time.
It's fun because, while no one will ever dare reference it, it's canon. At least for 616, because that particular DC timeline are kill.
>Diana with Thor's hammer. Wonder Thor/Awesome Whor with Mjolnir.
>Most powerful being in either setting, barring the big hitting cosmic characters?
>tfw both Marvel and DC shake hands, and acknowledged their shared histories and the value of each other.
>tfw it's 2016, and they are bitter rivals; one churning out great movies but driving their flagship titles into the ground, and the other is bitterly failing at the catchup game with movies, and yet still releases consistently good comics.
>Capeshit dimension hopper who we will likely never see again, yet is still out there. Somewhere.
>Street
DC. Punisher's cool, but Batman outdoes him.
>Superhero
Marvel, but DC's not far behind. DC's superheroes are too boring to really be interesting to me.
>Cosmic
Marvel. Lantern Corps are cool, but are pretty generic. GotG and other shit's a lot cooler.
>SpiritualDark Horse. Marvel is a close second, since they have cool heroes like Ghost Rider, who is really underrated. DC doesn't really have any notable Spiritual shit, aside from, like, Solomon Grundy.
>>84554294
he did at least get two minis after that ended
>>84554477
>DC doesn't really have any notable Spiritual shit, aside from, like, Solomon Grundy.
I... I don't even... what?
You do realize that Constantine, Lucifer, Dream, Death; heaven, hell, and reams of concepts, all exist in DC? And this is without even getting into Swamp Thing, Etrigan, the Greek Gods that are the entire backbone of Wonder Woman's origin and so on? Doctor Fate? SPECTRE?!
Marvel
DC
Marvel
DC
This is the unbiased opinion. That's not to say DC doesn't have it's own outstanding cosmic stories or street level or that Marvel doesn't have great Superhero stories and spiritual books It's just that the other company is consistently stronger in that area
>>84554477
>DC doesn't really have any notable Spiritual shit,
>DC
>don't care
>don't care
>DC
>>84548848
Marvel (unless I'm in a Bat family mood)
MCU
Not Interested
DC
Stree- Marvel - Not that DC doesn't have some really good street levels, Marvel just tends to have more of them, so more of their better stories focus on street level.
Super- DC - Superman. More than enough said there.
Cosmic - DC - This one is difficult to call, but I'm going with DC because of the Lanterns, and the fact that a lot of the cosmic characters share their tier with the Spiritual ones.
Spiritual - DC - This one isn't even a competition. DC clearly blows Marlel outta the water here.
>>84554477
>DC doesn't really have any notable Spiritual shit, aside from, like, Solomon Grundy.
100% proof you do not read DC and are talking out of your ass.
>>84554942
>100% proof you do not read DC and are talking out of your ass.
Sounds more to me like he is just a Batfan, citing Grundy. I can understand it. I didn't even realize Constantine, and the other 'black' label stuff, was actually DC until a few years ago when I read it. They do keep the Bat (and normal) stuff generally pretty segregated from the supernatural, or did. Aside from Grundy, the only other dabbler that comes to mind is Zatanna, and I don't think she is anything close to a regular in Batman anymore. There seems to be a little more overlap in the DCAU and New52.
>Street Level
Marvel
>SUPERhero Level
DC
>Cosmic Level
Marvel
>Spirutual Level
DC
>>84548848
Marvel
DC
Tie
DC
DC
DC
Marvel
Neither really, both of them are shit
>>84555478
>DC Spiritual
>Shit
Yeah, no
>>84549086
>Marvel's street level tends to be comfy, even when it gets pretty dark
>>84548848
DC
DC
DC
DC
>>84548848
>Street Level
I like Batman better than any street level Marvel character, but Marvel has generally a more diverse street level world.
>SUPERhero Level
DC has the Justice League and the Justice Society. Period.
>Cosmic Level
It depends on what we're talking about when we say "cosmic". Marvel has a more fleshed out cosmology, DC only has mainly the Lanterns and the New Gods. But does the Multiverse count as cosmic? Because it it does, DC takes this one for me. If it doesn't, Marvel wins.
>Spirutual Level
I'm going with DC in this one, even if Marvel has Doctor Strange.
>>84548848
>>MARVEL
>>MARVEL
>>MARVEL
>>DC
Current DC being an infinite batwanking with superman filling some space is killing DC
>>84556817
Except, sadly, it actually seems to be Batwanking (and frigging, in the case of Harley) that is keeping DC at the top. Rebirth is selling well in general, but between events (and just before Rebirth) it was mostly all Batman titles and oddly Harley that were in the top 15.
I think our culture has either grown out of Superman, or they just don't want any Superman but the original/pre-52. I'm not sure whether their willingness to accept a new Batman speaks well of the character, or more the concept.
>>84556817
Come on, man. How can you complain about Batman where there are several Spider-People running around?
Let's do a count, shall we?
DC:
>BATMAN
>DETECTIVE COMICS
>NIGHTWING
>BATGIRL
>BATGIRL AND THE BIRDS OF PREY
>RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS
>BATMAN BEYOND
>HARLEY QUINN
>HARLEY'S LITTLE BLACK BOOK
Marvel:
>CLONE CONSPIRACY
>THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN
>SPIDEY
>SPIDER-MAN/DEADPOOL
>SPIDER-MAN
>SPIDER-MAN 2099
>SPIDER-WOMAN
>SILK
>SPIDER-GWEN
>VENOM
It's just about the same number of titles between Batman and Spider-Man. So i don't see how there's too much Batman.
>>84548848
Marvel
Can't choose, both are good
Marvel
DC
>Marvel
>Marvel
>Marvel
>Marvel
>>84548848
>Spirutual Level
It's called Mystic.
Street:
Marvel, the easiest one and it is because the best Punisher, Daredevil and Moon Knight comics are better than everything DC does at that level alone.
Superheroic
Marvel, I will take the X-Men over the JLA and I put stuff like Simonson Thor into this bracket too
Cosmic:
DC, gimme Legion and Strange Adventures and Fourth World over all the Marvel stuff that feels like the same thing over and over again
Mystic:
I don't care one way or the other.
>>84548947
If that is your aroused face, you must be a real chore to deal with in the bedroom.
What category is Starman? Because he wins it all.
>>84554477
>DC doesn't really have any notable Spiritual shit, aside from, like, Solomon Grundy.
You ignorant slut.
Also, what is half of Vertigo.
>>84559049
But none of it is as good as Ditko drawn Dr. Strange so what is even the point.
Marvel, as long as we're counting characters like the Runaways and Dagger and Cloak because otherwise I don't really care.
DC
DC
DC, though again I don't really care much about most of these characters.
>>84548962
Iron Man is not in it. Also they had one panel of Deathstroke and Frank shooting at each other which made me wish they'd make an entire crossover with just them.
>>84559067
The Sandman trumps Dr. Strange and the Sandman is DCU, therefore DC Dark > whatever the fuck counts as Marvel spiritual.
>Street Level
Marvel, Luke Cage and Iron Fist is my jamI'm pretty pissed off that "the crew" by Priest will never be expanded upon, Casper was my favorite in that and Rhodes(war machine) was better written.
>SUPERhero Level
DC, if you mean teams and general capes. Also modern avengers suck ass with their meh stories and petty/mediocre conflicts. also marvel events, fuck 'em
X-men counts right? I love them but they'll never escape the marvel editorial.
>Cosmic Level
Marvel mostly, I love the big vastness of characters in them. Most of the marvel cosmic I prefer is when earth is not a focus in the story. I love the fact my favourite marvel event (annihilation) is written by a mostly DC writer, who also writes some good DC cosmic too. I really like LOSH, New Gods and GL but marvel cosmic ranks really high to meGiffen will never come back to cosmic marvel ;_;
>Spirutual Level
DC, I need to catch up on some titles though.
>>84559155
We are gonna disagree because I don't like Sandman but that is okay.
>>84559067
Yeah all that Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman stuff, complete trash, amirite?
>>84559177
This op. Ditko and friends did crazy Dr Strange stuff in the past. Something the current Marvel writers can't understand.
This is similar to what they did with Thor. They had no idea what to do with him and completely shelved him until JMS bought him back on track.
We need a good Strange writer who gets him.
>>84559183
Yeah its basically Moore Veitch Totleben Swamp Thing vs. Ditko Dr. Strange
So I didn't bother voting in that one because they cancel each other out.
>>84559174
All Keith Giffen's best cosmic work has been done at DC.
>>84559177
So...because you don't like it, you can't recognize talented writing, epic story arcs, etc?
I guess Hellblazer and Swamp Thing were too low brow for you too, huh?
Fucking plebes.
>>84559212
This thread is a bunch of people stating personal opinions on the quality of certain aspects of Superhero Universes
Sorry if my personal opinions got in the way of that.
Street level: Marvel. Punisher & Daredevil hi-jinks top this.
SUPERhero level: From what I've read, I'll go with Marvel, because X-Men.
Cosmic level: DC because Lanterns and Fourth World.
Spiritual level: DC because Swamp Thing and Constantine.
>>84559222
Liking/enjoying something is different than quality.
The ability to recognize different media as well defined, written, is pretty essential to not being a prole. Stating you didn't count something because you didn't like it is pretty much prole-tastic.
You guys always forget fucking Spider-Man is street leveler.
>>84559257
I disagree strongly. What you enjoy the most is what you think is the best. Whether or not you want to accept that is truth is up to you.
I can tell what is 'professionally' done but that doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things because so is a majority of DC/Marvel comics.
Being competent shouldn't be some achievement.
>>84559067
>implying one character could ever outdo thousands of years of magical warfare and political intrigue involving dozens of developed characters established across countless comics
Does Thor count as spiritual? Because if that so, I have to give it to Marvel.
>>84559309
I feel like we are reading these things for completely different reasons, and that is cool.
But all of what you just said doesn't matter to me in the slightest.
>>84559285
>What you enjoy the most is what you think is the best.
So if you don't enjoy something, it's objectively bad? Good to know you're just a self-centered idiot then.
>>84559380
Not him but there's really no point to trying to have "objective" standards here, so why can't we just be subjective?
>>84559380
Why is it the prerogative of internet discussions to take what someone says, invert every part of it and assume that is also exactly what they meant and 100% true.
That seems to start meaningless conflicts for no reason.
I am never talking objectively about anything, because how can one person.
All I said is the work you like the most is the work you think is the best, I didn't speak to work you didn't like or the reasons why someone may not enjoy something.
>>84559380
I gave up, it's one of those 'my feelings get in the way of being objective' things, hence, peasantry. He's not going to get it as rationality goes out the window when you let feelings and the like take the lead.
Neutrality and at least appreciating art, even if you don't enjoy it, is a dying thing it seems.
>>84559421
Eric, that you?
>>84559454
The intention of all art is to make you FEEL something. I don't understand how anyone can serious take your sterile attitude towards it.
>>84559461
nope
>>84548848
>Street Level
Batman>Daredevil
>SUPERhero Level
Justice League>Avengers
>Cosmic Level
Gren Lantern>Guardians of the Galaxy
>Spirutual Level
Swamp thing and Co>Dr. Strange and Co
>>84559526
>Street Level
Spider-Man > Batman
>SUPERhero Level
X-Men > Justice League
>Cosmic Level
Nova Corps > Green Lantern
>Spirutual Level
Ghost Rider > Swamp thing and Co
>>84559474
Art appreciation is something that isn't 'sterile', it's something one does with an open mind and tries to see it from many angles.
I don't care for impressionist art, or post modern stuff, doesn't mean I can't appreciate those things.
Emotion is necessary when *enjoying* art, yes, it's how one has a favorite, something that they feel a personal connection with.
I hate using the words of someone else but:
"Art Appreciation is the knowledge and understanding of the universal and timeless qualities that identify all great art. The more you appreciate and understand the art of different eras, movements, styles and techniques, the better you can develop, evaluate and improve your own artwork."
Personal growth supersedes 'my favorite is 'better than another one'.
Wider viewpoints, etc, makes all art mediums easier to enjoy rather than to 'prioritize' them in any way shape or form.
>>84559555
>Ghost Rider > Swamp thing and Co
Now anon, you mustn't tell lies.
>>84548897
I don't know. Batman and Green Arrow are both pretty good street level characters
Unless you put Spiderman in that category..(i know people do, but its ridiculous)
>>84559615
How is it ridiculous?
>>84559573
I feel like most of this is ignoring the fact that what we are talking about here is Fictional Storytelling.
Which are only ever working if you are feeling something for the story.
Sure that drawing could be really good in any comic, but that drawing was real good and it made me feel something will trump that every single time.
I think you are also mistaken if you think there is automatically a lack of growth or appreciation from appreciating something from how it can make you feel and how it moves you as it moves.
>>84559639
he has superpowers. (pretty good ones too)
I'd accept Capt.America because his superpower is "peak human".
or Black Canary because she just has a sonic scream
but Spiderman is just too strong and agile (plus spider sense).
Maybe if he just had his web-shooter and no other powers he would be "street level"
>>84559651
I hate even more that you're just not going to get it: the art and the writing are in the same boat: They can be appreciated even if you don't *feel* something for it.
JMS' Thor I didn't care for, but I can see how it is enjoyable and even an interesting run on the character.
Appreciating a finely crafted story, a well defined world, characters that grow and are not static is something to appreciate even if you don't feel enough of a connection to make it something you'd go out of your way to read.
Again, you're thinking *only* with that empathy side instead of both the rationality and emotional sides working conjointly.
>>84559710
Who cares if he has superpowers? Batman can do impossible things with is prep-time and kung fu, on a level Spider-Man could never hope to compete with.
Marvel
DC
DC
Marvel
>>84559718
I feel like you are reading my posts but skipping over individual lines like this one
>Sure that drawing could be really good in any comic, but that drawing was real good and it made me feel something will trump that every single time.
That line doesn't sound any different to what you are chiding me for not understanding, the best comics are ones the match the emotional and the rational in the best ways, and ones that only really hit on one or the other fall flat for sure.
That means that the best work still contains both things.
>>84559729
Street Level characters are usually just guys in costumes (like batman, like most of the Golden Age JSA)
