Comic creator twitter is getting pretty fucking saucy about this whole Rucka/Cho spat.
Do you guys think it was worth it to bring Rucka back to write Wonder Woman?
>>84525249
>Do you guys think it was worth it to bring Rucka back to write Wonder Woman?
dc probably needs rucka more than cho needs dc, rucka needs dc or dc needs cho, so i guess
It seems this started a Civil War between comic artist and writers.
>>84525249
>saucy about this whole Rucka/Cho spat.
Oh shit, what happened now.
>tfw Rucka defines himself as a lesbian
I mean, what the fuck is wrong with him, for fuck sake!
>>84525285
James Robinson there is a writer, albeit one that jumped ship from DC because of editorial disputes in the first place.
>>84525285
>"This truly was a Disney's Marvel's Captain America: Civil War starring Robert Downey Jr."
Bravo Joss
Will this controversy increase the sales of WONDER WOMAN?
I mean, Marvel has shown us that controversy, forced or not, always translate into an increase in sales.
>>84525269
But Cho is still at DC and still drawing WW
>>84525249
I really like Zircher. I don't agree with all of his opinions but I like that he's always honest. He also is fucking passionate about Superman and he knows a lot about classic artists.
Has Rucka said anything?
Yes. Cho's a baby. Leave if you want but don't go cry to BleedingCool about the mean writer making you change your art. (which was actually cropping in slightly)
>>84525320
He was inly drawing covers. Hes not doing interiors
>>84525304
Rucka was micromanaging Cho on his variant covers so Cho left.
>>84525320
yes but moving a variant artist to another book isn't as complicated as losing your writer, especially when the book is double shipping
>>84525320
This is less about "DC FUCKED UP AGAIN" and more about "ARTIST V WRITER".
>>84525336
If you read any of the articles you'd know there was far more to it you ignorant slag.
tldr?
>>84525336
Cho went to BC to clear up a rumor because he didn't want people to think it was a problem with editorial.
>>84525304
>hey don't draw panty shots or other proactive things and if you do I might have the pic edited to get rid of that stuff
>don't you censor me, I'll just go somewhere else
That's basically it.
>>84525249
This isn't comics nor cartoons.
>"but theyre talking about something tangentially rela-
No. This is twitter drama bullshit that's fueled by a nothing outrage between an egotist writer and a primadonna artist. Both of them are at DC and the issue was resolved, fuck off with this "what did he say/she say tho?" bullshit and leave it on twitter where it belongs.
>>84525322
Yeah I don't agree with him on a lot of political stuff, but his twitter is a lot of fun to follow regardless because he posts so much about classic comics history.
>>84525311
DON'T TALK SHIT ABOUT THE RUCKATEER!does anyone still have that screencap of all the different nicknames for him?
>>84525323
What could he say? Sometimes there are professional disagreements. It's going to happen when there are people with differing viewpoints. It's probably DC's fault for not letting Cho know ahead of time that Rucka would get final say but at least they fixed it in a way that would let him keep drawing WW.
>>84525375
see
>>84525392
It's a writer v artist thing
>>84525392
>implying it was a panty shot
Do people forget that wondy was basically in panties for half a century?
>>84525323
He yelled at someone asking about and his silence claiming access to him is a privilege not a right.
>>84525401
Ruckaroni and cheese was my favorite
>>84525392
>I'm incredibly uninformed, but I want to share my opinion nonetheless.
>>84525417
Yes but instead odrawing the skirt longer like some others might or not drawing a pic where having to draw the panty line is necessary, he just drew the panty line, and Rucka didn't like that.
Greg Rucka is literally the Nintendo Treehouse of comics.
>>84525249
Rucka's Wonder Woman is incredibly boring anyway. The one positive about it were Cho's variant covers.
>>84525432
Except that's what happened.
Cho wanted to draw things that Rucka didn't like, called it censorship when Rucka wouldn't let him, and then left that book to go draw Trinity variants instead.
>>84525366
>why can't i draw panties on the cover ;___;
>i just wanna masturbate in peace
>>84525391
there was no rumor or anything until BC posted his comments.
>>84525392
>this is provocative
>>84525441
But he was okay with Wonder Woman being completely nude in the interior art, but finds Wonder Woman's tights (NOT underwear) showing to be unacceptable on a variant?
Give me a fucking break.
>>84525318
kek
>>84525467
There was no rumor because Cho cleared it up.
>>84525479
I agree with Rucka that the panty line is stupid.
>>84525486
>in the interior art
That's probably one reason why he was okay with it there.
>>84525392
Congratulations on this marvelous (you) trap
>>84525249
I stopped reading rebirth WW after two issues. But considering he views himself as a "lesbian" (but not trans) gives me a bad feeling that he's not playing well with people like Cho.
>>84525467
>OH MY GOD HOW DARE YOU IMPLY WOMEN WEAR UNDERWEAR
William Marston didn't intend Wonder woman to be oppressed by prudes anon.
>>84525527
>/co/ hates hearing the truth
I know, anon.
>>84525504
It's not 'panties' its her god damn shorts, the ones she's been wearing since forever.
>>84525504
>I agree with Rucka that the panty line is stupid.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Its what she has worn for 72 fucking years just obscured by the skirt now.
Fuck Off!!!
>>84525515
Rucka was written Wonder Woman comics before, comics that had much more saucy covers.
>>84525462
Except Rucka wanted Cho to completely change everything about his art? He tried to micromanage every little thing for all of his variants, which is fucking unheard of and it doesn't take a genius to figure out he just did it to target Cho for some perceived slights.
Cho's variants weren't even "cheesecakey" at all. They were pretty awesome and tasteful and there was no reason to do what Rucka did.
>>84525536
>i have to have underwear being shown at all times
Zenescope exists for a reason, you know.
>>84525553
looking at the pencils and then the released 3 it seems like what rucka wanted was pretty minor. (underwear not showing)
>>84525323
There is literally nothing he could say that would make him look good. He's being smart and keeping quiet because he knows he's in the wrong.
What's he gonna say? "Yes I nitpicked Cho's covers a lot because I don't like his chinky dick?" Second best option would be to lie and say Cho is leaving to spite him, but that makes no sense since Cho was excited as fuck to be allowed to draw Wonder Woman. .
>>84525504
>>84525479
Obviously Rucka doesn't like the fact that Wonder Woman wear panties and prefer the pantiesless Wonder Woman.
>>84525504
Yeah, Wonder Woman should go commando. Amazons probably never even heard of panties.
>>84525545
It's not even lewd, it's just ugly like that. Rucka was right.
>>84525553
How does anything you say contradict to what you're replying to?
>>84525467
Not even underwear. How fucking dumb are you? She's wearing a twist on the hoplite skirt, basically it's the same shit she's always worn, just with the skirt added to the waistline.
>>84525573
>>84525504
It's her goddamn leotard you retard
>>84525545
Calm down, you're looking just as sensitive as Rucka right now.
>>84525594
nah it's underwear. super unprofessional for her to have it flashing around in a fight
>>84525591
If you're too dumb to figure that out then I feel sorry for you.
>>84525563
>"At all times"
Her underwear wasn't shown in any of the other covers.
How the god damn fuck does defending it being shown periodically equal demanding it being shown at all times.
Fuck You.
And Zenescope is deck with non existent characters we want WONDER WOMAN to be fucking sexy.
>>84525317
Seeing what they did to Earth 2 without him, I'm inclined to agree.
>>84525504
The bitch has been galavanting around in panties and a corsette for decades. Now that there's an added skirt overtop of the panties it's too lewd? Give me a fucking break. "Panties? How scandalous! Make her go commando, that's less revealing."
>>84525504
Explain these covers.
>>84525620
>Cho wanted to draw things
>Rucka wouldn't let him
>Cho cried censorship and left
Nothing from this contradicts anything from your post.
>>84525633
delete this
>>84525563
>I'm afraid of human sexuality and ashamed of my own body.
Be more sex-positive anon.
>>84525553
>Except Rucka wanted Cho to completely change everything about his art?
Wrong again. http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/07/14/frank-cho-walks-off-wonder-woman-after-sixth-cover/
There's like little to no edits to these, the worst being the one in question with the panties cut out. Stupid, yeah, but its something so minor that Cho probably could have looked over and moved on from if he wasn't such an easily triggered baby.
Gee, its almost like thriving "outrage" from his beautiful but banal cheesecake has sort of spoiled Cho in recent years.
>>84525648
Keep digging that hole
>>84525633
Those are from a decade ago and he most likely had little to no power over those
Anyway Rucka is way more protective over Diana now than he probably ever was
She been shit for a long time under Finch
>>84525633
Rucka is a male lesbian that is also a hypocrite.
So Rucka prefers Wondie going commando at all times?
>>84525601
This is even more provocative than the original. Who knows what could be happening off-screen.
>>84525672
It's okay to be embarrassed anon, I forgive you for misreading my post.
Whose side are you on? Was Rucka an emotional lesbian or did Cho overreacted?
http://www.strawpoll.me/10757580
>>84525648
You're missing an important key of information.
RUCKA WASN'T CHO'S BOSS. Cho shouldn't have to listen to Rucka.
at its core it's just waifufag vs waifufag on who waifus her best
>>84525671
>Gee, its almost like thriving "outrage" from his beautiful but banal cheesecake has sort of spoiled Cho in recent years.
it's so delicious
>>84525717
they're both retards and highly sensitive manbabies
>>84525671
>Cho says he was being micromanaged on every cover
>"No he wasn't I know so because of reasons"
wew lad
Until Rucka comes out and calls out Cho for being an overreacting babby and refutes his accusations, we have to assume he's not lying. If he is, then why won't Rucka just step up and tell us that we're being played by him?
>>84525724
DC told Rucka he could have that power in order to convince him to come back. They probably fucked up and forgot to tell Cho that ahead of time.
>>84525671
Lmao you retard. If you actually read the latest interview you'd know how fucking dumb you look.
He micromanaged the shit out of Cho's own works, telling him to do shit like change the bracers, change lasso positioning, show less skin, etc...
Absolute absurdity and the fact that you support this nonsense from a writer dictating and stifling Cho's artwork on variants so much is incredibly disappointing.
>>84525724
>Didio and Johns had to beg for Rucka to come back
>2012-2013 was plagued by writers leaving and being fired
>Rucka is regarded as one of the best Wondy writers and her movie is coming up
>Rucka was allowed to chose Doyle as his group editor
>Batgirl fiasco where the writers didn't like the variant
Anon for all we know Doyle and whatever higher ups are giving Rucka a lot of power, including what happens with covers, so he could very well be allowed to tell Cho what to do.
And if it's somewhat true and Cho doesn't like it, then he was right to leave.
>>84525773
He shouldn't have that power
>>84525336
Shut up fake lesbian.
>>84525705
Okay, then please explain how Rucka's actions weren't censorship.
It's fine if you don't respond, I'll understand.
>>84525816
Okay but it would still make him Cho's boss.
>>84525762
>Until Rucka comes out and calls out Cho for being an overreacting babby and refutes his accusations, we have to assume he's not lying
Why? People will just deny him and go "NUH UH, MY BOY CHO DIDNT DO NUFFIN'" Cho knows this, that's why he went crying in the first place.
Those original sketches compared to the official releases is proof enough that (even if Rucka was being a baby about it) Cho was magnifying the issue. Hell, the fact he's still on DC, just doing variants on Trinity shows that the issue wasn't as bad as he was making it out. They probably just wanted it to end so they split them off.
Kurt Busiek said that Yes since they own the characters DC/Marvel can change your product in anyway they want, so if you don't like that go creator owned.
>>84525800
He shouldn't tho, he"s not an editor he's a writer and they shouldn't be able to control artists.
>>84525836
I never said it wasn't censorship?
>>84525601
Bad composition
>>84525816
Why not?
>>84525249
>Comic creator twitter
>>84525479
This is just anatomically fucking terrible
No human being contorts themselves to pose like this, and her hips are some sort of antiecleudian nightmare
>>84525848
But DC wasn't changing the product, rucka was and he doesn't own wonder woman.
>>84525883
It gives me a boner so it's anatomically great, stop being a prude.
>>84525865
Yeah you did. That's EXACTLY what you implied in your snarky little greentext, that Cho basically did what he was told he couldn't do, and was a baby when he tried to do it anyway, which is not how it happened.
Jesus how do you not remember? It's been all of like 5 minutes.
Why does twitter drama matter? Rucka does waifu Wondy and is pretty protective of her and Cho is known to draw cheese cake. To me the variant cover wasn't bad but it doesn't really matter. Cho's still going to have work within the industry with and Rucka's going to continue writing his waifu. This isn't the last time Cho's going to draw Wondy and Rucka isn't going to be her final writer. In the beginning this split seemed pretty civil.
>>84525836
Why would you think editorial control is censorship? That doesn't even make sense. Obviously it was just a detail he disliked not some rule against WW looking sexy at least based on the actual comic.
Social Media was a mistake. All it does is foster division to create ever more pointless conflicts.
What's next? WW3 because of an out of context tweet? Do we wait until THAT happens for people to realise "oh sit, this has gone out of hand."
>>84525844
When there's two sides to a story and one side refuses to even release a statement, that side has something to hide.
You can go ahead and assume people won't listen, but if Rucka has an even plausible explanation as to why Cho left then at the very least it would create doubt in my mind as to who was in the right here. I don't really have a dog in this race, but right now it looks to be a case of "writer doesn't like an artist so he's allowed to chase him off the job" which is bullshit and should not be allowed.
The fact that people are celebrating this behavior is also bad.
Rucka wanted him gone probably from day 1. He's a feminist, overprotective of his waifu and probably didn't want "outrage" guy drawing WW on near his project in any shape or form.
>>84525892
see
>>84525800
We don't know how much power Rucka really has until he or DC tells us.
>>84525431
Greg Cucka
>>84525249
confused, is this sarcastic?
>>84525923
>He's a feminist
Rucka or Cho?
>>84525563
Because actual women who actually read comics buy them.
Why is Zenescope's audience mostly female? I don't know, maybe it's all the ridiculous drama, same thing happened with Tarot.
Men rarely buy that shit unless it's a JSC cover or something.
>LCS employee blogposts
>>84525904
It was Rucka control, and it was many details, he stifled all of Cho's work and basically wanted all the variants to be of HIS imagining but with Cho doing all the hard work.
>>84525865
>>84525900
>Except Rucka wanted Cho to completely change everything about his art? He tried to micromanage every little thing for all of his variants, which is fucking unheard of and it doesn't take a genius to figure out he just did it to target Cho for some perceived slights.
this seems to be y'all's sticking point and it's something we can't prove either way so far.but i'm inclined not to believe it cause there are some jumps of logic in there, like Rucka having some vendetta against Cho.
>>84525900
Ah, trying to find things that don't exist then.
Let me make it so you don't get triggered then:
>Cho wanted to draw things
>Rucka wouldn't let him
>Cho accused said writer of censorship and left
Better?
>>84525883
But anon, Cho says it's on model.
>>84525875
Because that's not his job. He's a writer not an editor
>>84525633
DELETE THIS
>>84525633
Those are drawn by JG Jones (WW) and Rucka likes JG.
>>84525967
If DC gave him that power, then it is his job. It would just be him possibly him misusing it and being picky.
>>84525963
It is on model unless you're channeling your inner Ruckster.
>>84525568
And her ass being cropped off the page.
Rucka wanted to piss off Cho, because DC begged both to work for them and both had the same condition: Wonder Woman.
Rucka showed he's a petty asshole who can't play fair. If Cho can look past his irrational hatred for Superman and draw him well just to keep drawing WW, we'll know who's the better man and who loves Wondie most.
>>84525909
What could Rucka say that would make you think he isn't lying? That's why he's not saying anything. There's no point. Maybe he was a bitch or maybe Cho was the bitch. Either way because he'd be coming in second everyone will just think it's damage control and believe Cho's version.
It's likely just that they don't get along and never should have been put on a book together period.
>>84525797
There are literally next to no edits in those first two covers. If Wondy suddenly had big stocking socks to cover up legs or some other shit like that, maybe you'd have some ground to stand on but again. Nothing up until that third cover (and even then it was something as dumb as moving it to the side) was changed.
>>84525909
Again, why? The issue was resolved like >>84525902 says. I don't think Cho has said anything beyond the initial statement.
I don't see people celebrating it either (and if you mean "comic creator twitter" then newsflash:twitter isn't a venue for discussion. it's a place where someone puts their equivalent of thought farts in text and friends like it and support it anyways. the character limit doesn't allow for well thought out arguments and you're probably better off not looking up people you like on it since their thought farts are probably awful and will change in a couple days.
Silence is also a legitimate option, especially considering how much of a non-issue this is.
>>84525923
That's probably true, but frankly do you blame him considering that cheesecake is most of what Cho is known for?
>>84525967
But it is his job. DC said he could do it. Why do you think it's not his job?
>>84525633
Tbf, Rucka didn't have the amount of creative control and pull he has now.
>People defending Rucka's temper tantrums again
>>84525319
Doesn't work for DC, only leads to less sales. Marvel is the only company that pulls off the controversy into sales gimmick and I'm still confused why. Any ideas?
>>84526034
>People defending Cho's temper tantrums again
>>84526001
>What could Rucka say that would make you think he isn't lying?
Pretty much literally anything at this point. Just explain yourself nigga it ain't hard.
>>84526010
How do you know edits weren't demanded in the prelim stages? Just because we have those two final-ish images to go on doesn't mean Cho wasn't micromanaged like he said he was.
>>84526034
Well yeah this is /co/mblr after all, they're probably upset that Cho is still breathing after daring to draw Spider-Gwen in that pose that one time.
>>84526034
>Rucka's temper tantrums
>he's literally done nothing
>>84526054
Marvel fans are just cucks, but these variants for DC were not incentive variants so they probably won't affects sales more than like 10k even though Cho is very popular. And DC will just make up the money with his fans going to Trinity anyway.
>>84525717
>>84525902
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SJWS ARE RUINING WONDER WOMAN, DIANA WOULDN'T STAND FOR THIS
Anyway this entire thing is stupid.
Cho didn't bring editorial into this, so it's most likely just a writer vs artist thing, so that's not so uncommon. The most editorial probably did was place him on Trinity so they could appease Rucka, or give Rucka more power over covers and turned their head when the spats took place.
>>84526074
Then why didn't Cho post those versions if they exist instead of those? He gladly posted the one that started the issue. He's not under any sort of contract that forbids him from daring to show rejected sketches. People do it all the time: https://twitter.com/yanickpaquette/status/682307317468151811
I don't get why liberals like censorship so much
>>84525883
You've never seen a woman in your life.
>>84526109
Pretty much. Seems to be that it's the typical "artist and writer don't get along" kind of thing. That's the downside of working in a team. If there's NO harmony or synergy between the two, then things don't get done right.
>>84525923
This
I am absolutely baffled why DC would put Cho on Wonder Woman in the first place. The guy has been known for the past year as the OUTRAGE and ass drawing guy, so why place him on the iconic heroine who's about to be in the movies?
They took two steps forward with DCYou and Rebirth with regards to PR and stuff, and took three steps back with him on variants.
Especially since Trinity is a thing and Wonder Woman is there too, since Cho wanted to draw Wondy.
>>84526024
>it is his job
No it fucking is not his job. He was hired to write so his fucking job is to write not to fuckong edit other people's work.
>but dc gave him that power
AND THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT. What's next is he gonna try to control how people write her in other books?
>>84526134
Conservatives like it too. Just look at Harry Potter being banned by the religious right.
The only reason Frank Cho accepted to work for DC was because DC promised him that he could draw Wonder Woman, who's his amazon snusnu waifu.
The fact that Cho praised the editors and decided to simple leave the Wonder Woman book to draw the Trinity one, where he'll be forced to also draw Superman standing next to his waifu Wonder Woman, is a big statement to how well he handled this, because Cho has a fucking burning hatred for Superman. He just won't accept Superman, much less Superman anywhere near Wonder Woman.
>>84526066
>Hey guys I won't be doing Wonder Woman variants anymore
>Temper tantrum
>>84526091
I mean if you ignore his twitter, sure.
>KILL ALL WHITES
What did he mean by this?
>>84526091
Except nitpick a talented artist to the point of saod artist quitting the only job he was looking forward to.
If I was an artist, I wouldn't want to be censored either. the two clearly don't click anyway.
>>84526134
Pro Authoritarianism. "I know what's best" "Its for your own good" in 20 years America will be Demolition Man style dystopia if Liberals win.
>>84526156
Isn't that one of the problems that Static's New52 book had?
>>84526171
A burning hatred for a fictional character for no good reason is also evidence of being a petulant child.
>>84526188
but I don't want to eat at Taco Bell!
>>84526158
>why DC would put Cho on wonder woman in the first place
Because he's a great cover artist?
>>84525875
Would you give that amount of power to a man who calls himself a lesbian?
>>84526173
>"Greg Rucka thought my Wonder Woman #3 cover was vulgar and showed too much skin, and has been spearheading censorship, which is baffling since my Wonder Woman image is on model and shows the same amount of skin as the interior art, and it’s a VARIANT COVER and he should have no editorial control over it. (But he does. WTF?!!!)"
>"WTF?!!"
>all this over having his Wondy's booty cropped
>>84526188
see
>>84526161
>>84526158
>I am absolutely baffled why DC would put Cho on Wonder Woman in the first place.
Because Cho's a fucking amazing artist? Because they were just variants and it was smart, business-wise, because a lot of people adore his art?
>>84526158
Frank wanted to do it and he's had a career for longer than a series of sketches. The actual covers weren't risqué in the least.
>>84526208
>>84526237
That's why I mentioned Trinity
About the same level profile book with two male heroes so putting a cheesecake artist wouldn't have been outrage worthy
If you're on Greg Rucka side on this, then you're also okay with what happened with the Static Shock book DC released during the New 52 relaunch where the artist of the book, Scott McDaniel, forced the writer, John Rozum, to constantly change the book's plot points to fit his demands because the stupid editor backed him up.
Both parties although having their differences, they handled this issue better than it could have been. Rucka's keeping silent while Frank Cho has moved on to doing something else within DC. If anyone's being immature, it's the fanboys trying to attack the other in favour of their chosen side, further cementing my personal belief that social media is nothing but trouble.
>>84526224
separation of Church and State plus the Judicial branch would prevent bible thumpers from successfully trampling rights.
>>84525923
Rucka is not a feminist anon, he is a lesbian.
>>84526270
Static became a shit book as a result. But different situations. This is a variant cover, that was the entire direction of the comic's storyline.
According to Cho himself Rucka has it in his contract that he has complete control over the WW title, he didn't like Cho's cover. End of fucking story except Cho is being a little bitch and cry
>muh censorship
Dumbass shouldn't have signed on if he wasn't happy with the terms.
>>84526283
Too bad they didn't and many books have been banned by the Right.
>>84526266
Trinity has Batman so it doesn't need Cho's help. Wonder Woman is the one who usually needs help selling.
Also Cho loves Wonder Woman so they knew he would take it very seriously since it's a passion project of his.
>>84526305
No, it's the same thing.
Writer wanted to change the art of an artist.
Artist wanted to change the writing of a writer.
Same shit.
>>84526270
How are these two events similar?
>>84525883
You need to learn anatomy.
>>84526273
Pretty much, but when have fanboys not been total retards?
>>84526283
Just because those checks exist on paper but are frequently circumvented
>>84526054
They have shills in the right news websites.
>>84526332
You're stupid.
>>84526333
How are they not? A writer shouldn't tell an artist how to draw, just like an artist shouldn't tell a writer what to write.
>>84526332
Its not the same thing. Cho has no control of the interior of the book. Rucka and Cho clashed on personal reasons/taste on covers.
The writing of the book isnt effected at all.
>>84526332
Rucka has contractually given power while the Static situation sounds like it was just cronyism gone awry. Totally different.
>>84525883
I'll bite too.
>wonderwoman
>human
>>84526273
This desu
Some things Cho said are eye roll worthy and micromanaging is annoying, but both of them not rage quitting DC and not getting into twitter slap fights make them more mature than most.
>>84526134
Horseshoe theory is real.
>>84525249
So have any other comics people chimed in besides the ones in the OP?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/aug/24/tea-party-banning-books
Liberals all about that censorship you know.
>>84526379
I'm not saying that Cho has control of the interior of the book.
>>84526388
>Rucka has contractually given power while the Static situation sounds like it was just cronyism gone awry. Totally different.
The only different is that in the Static Shock case it was the artist who had power over the book content.
>>84526421
Gail Simone basically said we can't be sure of anything since Rucka has yet to comment.
>>84526421
A few have
Like Busiek said having your stuff edited is just a part of the job with work for hire
>>84526431
But you are comparing it to a sisturation where the artist was.
This is a personal clash of taste that is honestly over with but cho fapboys are still bringing it up.
>>84526461
his take was too reasonable for /co/
>>84526465
I'm comparing the situation because in this it was the writer who had the power and decided to mess with the art, while in the other one it was the artist who had the power and decided to mess with the writing.
>>84526421
Rob Liefeld is on Frank Cho's side
Erik Larsen just said this is something that you run the risk of by doing work for hire
>>84526502
The artist was granted power by the editor alone because they were buddies, IIRC. In this case DC itself allowed Rucka control.
>>84526365
Does that matter? It's still the fans buying into controversy hype even if they don't want it.
>>84526518
Same shit.
>>84526158
Because he's an Emmy winning artist who draws wonderful women, is cherished by the artistic community and all he asked for was drawing Wonder Woman.
SJWs are NOT comics' target audience, specially not DC's.
>>84526502
no Cho was hired to draw 24 variant covers. not drawn a script and co-plot
>>84526535
It's obvious not and you know it.
>>84525883
>No human being contorts themselves to pose like this
Yeah, it's almost like she's a goddess or something.
>>84526549
Yes, it is. Do you think Rucka is back because of what? Didio being friends with him and giving him the job.
>>84526540
Are you retarded in the brain?
>>84526535
Rucka has
>complete and total editorial control on Wonder Woman including variant covers by contract.
If Cho wasn't happy with this then he shouldn't have signed on.
>>84526572
Didio and Rucka are not friends. Didio had to beg Rucka to come back and this is one of the terms.
>Remove arm band, make the skirt longer and wider to cover her up, showing too much skin, add the lasso here, etc
Such harsh conditions
positively Orwellian
>>84526499
doesn't mean you have to agree with it being done
>>84526589
>Didio had to beg Rucka to come back and this is one of the terms
Honestly I think Rucka came back because he has kids he needs to put through school someday and his creator owned worked wasn't cutting it
>>84526572
They had to beg Rucka to come back and had to give into his demands.
>>84526587
it seems what happened is no one communicated that to Cho before this
I hate it when /co/ wants to talk about drama, but people in said thread get pissed at everyone else for not caring about their stupid drama.
>>84526627
Then Cho has a shit agent or is an idiot.
>>84526593
Are you serious? Cho is the artist, not Rucka. To have him dictate shit like that on such an absurd level is fucking insulting and honestly just petty and tasteless of Rucka.
>>84526614
If that's the case he's a good negotiator, because he obviously did not come off as desperate for cash to DC itself (Didio included and whomever else) because they did anything in their power to bring him on and make him comfortable, including giving him an editor of his choice from the Bat office. That doesn't usually happen.
>>84526614
He should had been a better writer then if his creator own stuff is trash.
>>84526600
I think it's completely fair that DC should be able to control a character they own as they see fit, including giving Rucka complete control. I don't understand why someone would disagree with that.
I also think it sucks for Cho that he was put into this position that didn't work out for him. I hope he is happy on Trinity and if necessary they'll give him another book too.
>>84526593
I disagree, Frank should've been thinking about the children he'd scar by exposing them to the lurid sight of Diana's legless lower garments. Can you imagine seeing Wonder Woman depicted in such a way? Frank should've changed it for the greater good.
>>84526664
Lol the conclusions you're jumping to based off of one anon's shoddy conjecture.
>>84526659
I don't think he was desperate, he just realized the Big 2 are a good choice for financial stability and Marvel burned him more recently than DC
>>84526521
It matters because the people buying books because they read about Iron Nigra in Salon or whatever, don't read comics, but want trendy shit to smalltalk about in their coffee table.
Fans don't buy into controversies, that along with killing the X-Men, is why Marvel's comics division is hanging by a thread on the back of Spidey and #1's while DC keeps afloat comfy.
FACT: no one did anything wrong
>>84526670
It is truly scarring
>>84526664
>good comics
>selling
If his shit isn't selling, then he's definitely a good writer.
>>84526652
Lol are you serious? DC just didn't tell him.
And it shouldn't matter in the first place. An artist shouldn't have to bend head and knee to a writer on artistic decisions for variant covers.
>>84525249
>>84526703
DC approached him, so your argument is flimsy as shit.
Either way it doesn't make much of a difference.
>>84526669
DC was in their rights, I'm not disagreeing with that. I just don't think anything was wrong with what Frank was putting out
>>84525285
Same shit happened in the past and that's how Image comics was formed. Artists got full of themselves because they thought they should have more creative control over the characters they drew. So they formed their own company and they found out the hard way that the vast majority of them couldn't write stories for shit. Now Rucka is doing the same thing in reverse. For instance, it's why Alan Moore was brought in to save Supreme. Rucka thinks he knows better than the artists. If the trend continues then other writers will follow suit and it will come back to bite them in the ass because they'll find out they don't know shit about layout, design, and the entire artistic process because their ideals they use to justify their actions only constricts the artistic leverage of the real artists.
>>84526517
Rob I expect but Erik usually falls on the creator's side of these things. He's right though. You work for hire, you get jerked around, it's how it is.
>>84526656
I didn't realize that when you hire someone to draw something for you you just had to accept what they give you
>Commission Cho for left
>Get right
>>84526745
Lol at the stupid Doctor Manhattan comparison. Did you seriously find that compelling? I cringed so hard.
>>84526765
>Rucka thinks he knows better than the artists. If the trend continues then other writers will follow suit
Sounds like the entire decade of the 2000s to me. Thank god Graham saved us from that nightmare.
>>84526593
Look man, there's something you need to understand about doing commissions. If you have these super specific ideas of what you want those need to be apparent as early as possible. Art is a lot of work, especially tweaking existing things to work with the additional changes.
The basic misunderstanding is "I paid you to make a this and you didn't make it right, fix it" being a legitimate argument. If someone fucks up your sandwich, okay, that's possible a ten cent fix that takes maybe a minute. No huge deal. With art it's entirely different and nobody seems to appreciate or understand the timesink that goes into it or the value of the work as a whole. Each and every "change" he asked for is time and money he could've spent on other projects that he's not getting paid for. Any minute change after the product has been completed to the commissioner's original specifications is usually bullshit. Demanding someone change multiple tiny details over and over again simply to suit your satisfaction as the writer, for a VARIANT COVER [i.e. not plot essential and necessary to be specific] is overstepping your boundaries as the customer.
The artist does not exist to serve your every whim. In fact, the customer is the one at need here. Telling someone to fix the job they've already done and then censoring the product anyway is asinine. If you don't want cheesecake drawn, why did you go to the cheesecake factory?
Cho won anyway. He gets to keep drawing Wonder Woman in a book that sells more, gets to see Rucka lose sales because his cover art really was a selling point, and he didn't even had to draw shit characters like Spider-Gwen this time.
>>84526755
Well I'd agree there too. He's not wrong for being upset or even explaining if he felt the need to do so, but that's kind of what will happen when you're not working on your own stuff. That's all Busiek was saying (and he also basically said that's kind of why he doesn't do big 2 anymore).
>>84526780
Not really, it was mostly the bit about how no women were involved and the last tweet that I liked.
>>84526669
>giving Rucka complete control
But he shouldn't have that because as this proves it goes to the writer's head and they abuse that power
>>84526745
>"W-WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! DC WHERE ARE MY SOFT LEWDS???????? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, CH-CHECKMATE FEMINISTS!!"
We already have enough reactionaries on this thread, no one cares about what people on twitter has to say regardless of stature or gender. Fuck off.
>>84525459
The thumbnail had me thinking someone was yelling "JEW" at her.
>>84526745
Who the fuck is this retarded piece of shit?
>>84526811
But he will have to draw Superman, though.
It would be funny if the Trinity variants only had Batman and Wondy in it.
>>84526715
>What Cho drew
>What Rucka saw
>What the poor colorist was forced to redraw just to have that ass cropped off in the printers anyway.
>>84526776
from the sounds of it the commissioners liked it. it was Greg who made things difficult
>>84525883
>character running, turned at hip slightly to deflect attack
>No human being contorts themselves to pose like this
>>84526776
Can you seriously not tell the difference between "don't have Wonder Woman spread eagle on her back" and "hey redraw the lasso here, re-do the bracers, make the skirt 1 inch longer, I don't like this re-do it, etc."?
>>84526776
RUCKA DIDN'T HIRE CHO RUCKA IS NOT HIS BOSS DC IS THE EMPLOYER AND HAD NO PROBLEMS WITH THE COVER
>>84526851
He's doing Trinity covers? Sweet.
>>84526851
He honestly might just leave Supes out. Most of the Green Lanterns variants have only had Jessica.
>>84526826
Good to know where you draw the line, we're all impressed.
>>84526932
If Hot Pockets are gonna let a shit thread stay, don't throw in more outside shit when it isn't needed/wanted.
You see, Rucka?
You should have never put Black Magick on hiatus.
>>84526943
Keep on fighting the good fight, anon.
>>84526851
>Cho draws Superman great, everyone sees he's willing to see past irrational shit unlike raging dyke Rucka.
>Cho draws Superman ridiculously, Batfags eat that shit up driving sales way up, the run is remembered as a comedy classic because of the alt covers.
Win-win situation.
>>84526874
You've never drawn shit in your life.
>>84526995
>Batfags hate Superman
When will this meme end? It's not fucking true I assure you.
>>84526995
It is not a win-win situation for the sjws that wanted Cho gone.
>>84526995
It would be funny if in every cover Superman was down on the floor, his face obscured, while Batman and Wonder Woman always looked battle ready and cool looking. Sometimes there wouldn't even be a Superman, just his shield splashed somewhere or characters like Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen standing in for him.
>>84527028
Great argument, my friend. Real pertinent to the situation at hand. Also eloquently worded.
Fucking retard.
>>84527045
TOO MUCH SKIN DELETE THIS AS LESBIAN-IDENTIFYING MALE I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS
>>84527045
It's funny how times change. Nowadays Diana would be seen wearing a burka because now that's the politically correct thing to do.
>>84526270
I still remember that disarmed shit
>>84527075
>still thinking this is about political correctness when Rucka allowed a nude panel of her in the last issue
>>84527045
>>84525633
Her underwear isn't showing in any of these. That was it. Even the internal art has her showing more skin, that's not the problem.
Rucka simply disagreed with the choice to hint at it, Cho packed his toys and left, and business will go on as usual.
>>84527075
Nigga the closest we got to that was Finch's stupid DCYou redesign but that was Finch being a retard, just like Flash's DCYou redesign by Booth.
>>84527029
Batfags might not but I guess Cho does. Wonder what his problem is?
