What do you think about giving long running supporting characters superpowers and a costume? Does it work? Does it not?
The most successful version of this is either Flash Thompson as Venom or Rhodey as War Machine I'd say.
I don't know. Rhodey is rather old character, he had time to develop. I'm rather interested why they decided to give Venom to Flash, though.
Anyway, I don't mind supporting characters getting superpowers and costume as long as they're written well.
Also Red She-Hulk, better or worse than regular flavor?
I think making betty a she-hulk flavor is pretty stupid in the long run, but I don't mind the whole "giving normal characters metahuman powers" plot if it's fun and all. Can't that be said about any arc?
Like maybe
>Give Catwoman some actual metahuman powers and she goes on a crime spree bats actually can't stop on his own
>cockteasing for days until flash or something turns up and even then she never lets him live it down
I don't really like it. There are some characters it has helped but usually I prefer them to stay as supporting characters. It's the same rational as changing established characters' sexuality or race instead of creating new characters. Betty Ross She-Hulk will sell better than new character She-Hulk because she's slightly more well-known, which could be the difference between cancellation and just skating by.
>>84413720
>I'm rather interested why they decided to give Venom to Flash
They had the idea of Agent Venom first, and even thought of making him Frank Castle, but decided he wasn't close enought to the Spider-franchise and Flash was the best fit
>>84413776
I like Frank and all, but it's hard to have him doing much other than his own thing because he's a maniac. He's a mad dog, all he wants to do is kill criminals and as many of them as possible no matter the circumstances. You gave him a symbiote and he'd just barge into Rykers and start slaughtering people.
>>84413761
>I think making betty a she-hulk flavor is pretty stupid in the long run,
I do agree on this, that's why I posted her. It seems really stretching the concept of Hulk as this lone, freakishly powerful engine of destruction to have a whole rainbow of Hulk Corps people with variations on his power set.
>>84413784
There's already a What If
>>84413761
Plenty of AUs where Selina either is metahuman or becomes one already. Usually they make her a were-cat though.
Also she had power armor for one story arc in the 90s
>>84413678
Hottest she hulk
>>84413853
>Werecat
Pretty good.
>Power Armor
Also pretty good.
What about... Both?
>>84414120
Wouldn't that be rather uncomfortable? Growing a tail and fur inside an Iron man suit must itch and stick horribly
>>84413798
Yeah Loeb went full retard in turning everyone into some form of Hulks. At least Pak and Parker were able to make something good from it
>>84414153
Funny enough the one transformation that was somewhat unique and interesting namely Marlo Chandler becoming the new Harpy, was just thrown out the window after one story. Between issues, even.
>What do you think about giving long running supporting characters superpowers and a costume?
It's a tradition.
>Does it work? Does it not?
It works when the character is well designed, and the creators are skillful.
Also, it depends on what the role of the originating character, and the supporting character are before and after.
I'd add Wally West to the list of successes.
>>84413727
Worse. She can't stand on her own.
>>84413819
>What if Venom had possessed the punisher.
Jail overcrowding would be fucking SOLVED.
>>84413678
It's not like Ross, Betty and Rick's stories in the Hulk books weren't completely played out, wtiters hadn't used them in years. Turning them into Hulks created new story opportunities for them
>>84414191
>I'd add Wally West to the list of successes.
Wally was Kid Flash in his first appearance.
>>84414144
Not if the armor's designed for it, obviously. Build a tail socket and stuff into it, protective layering on the inside, it'll be fine.
>>84414226
Hah, I remember Cybercat. She was some mousy inventor who used a big titted armor to turn herself into a sexy villainess right? I seem to recall her breaking down crying when Selina blew her suit up.
>>84413678
I usually think it's stupid (def in the case of Red Hulk/Red She-Hulk) but I think it can work well other times (War Machine)
>>84414234
I don't actually know anything about her aside from the design, it just came to mind mentioning an armored werecat.
'90s Catwoman had some fucking weird stuff going on.
>>84414250
She had two archvillains in that series, Cybercat and a Catwoman copy who tried to take over the role. I think she was called She-Cat or somesuch.
>>84413798
Multiple Hulks is why I also have a problem with multiple Spideys. It takes away from the uniqueness of the main one. There's way too many Spidey knock-offs and they should either go away or be relegated to another universe (like Spider-Gwen and Miles especially).
>>84414153
Sometimes I wonder how Loeb produced so much dogshit in comics yet became the head of their television department and produced good stuff with Netflix
>>84414194
Ross could've been a general to the entire MCU, Betty a biologist in someone else's book and Rick a sidekick in someone else's book (he keeps hopping around). You didn't have to turn them into Hulks.
>>84414266
I know a lot of people love the '90s-era Catwoman costume, but the comics always seemed kinda... Campy. Not in the great way.
A lot of people say that Brubaker's run revitalized the character so that isn't the most shining praise for what came before that, either
>>84414226
>>84414120
Isn't it a bit much to pile one powerset into an armor suit? What would the angle be?
>>84414285
>became the head of their television department
Because he came from movies. Same reason Johns gets producing gigs with WB/DC. They aren't going to give a comics guy a film job, but they'll have no problem giving it to a movies guy, even if they're fucking terrible
>>84414250
>'90s Catwoman had some fucking weird stuff going on.
best costume though
>>84414340
Because werecats and power armor are cool as heck, my dude. Besides, power armor is just supposed to take what you've already got and make it better. Is it really any different from putting it on a human if your power is "become a slightly stronger and faster cat-human?"
She's been on the JL a few times if memory serves, it's not like she couldn't use the boost in those leagues.this is actually retarded i know
>>84414349
Definitely, and best Selina attitude. It was the last time in a very long time she was a cocky, amoral thief like in TAS instead of a troubled crimefighter like she became in Bru's run. And I vastly prefer crooked Selina to straight arrow.
>>84414349
I've never been the straightest guy on earth, but DAMN THAT SHIT HAD ME HARD RIGHT OUT THE DAMN WOMB
I don't think Catwoman is a good example, because even if she's not powered, she's still running around in costume.
>>84414194
In Ricks case, haven't they given him the full Jimmy Olsen new power set ever 10 years treatment?
Thinking about this further, I think one tricky thing about this is that comics consistently backtrack.
So any change you make to the supporting character has to be able to survive undoing any progress to retell a new variation on the old shit.
Since they're not going to tell Flash's old high school stories without full ultimates, it's safe to stick him in Venom.
And Rhodey's role pre war machine is all shit he can still do now. Be a glorified chauffer. Be the designated black guy. Be the millitary contact. Be the straight man to tony's drunk or hard partying ass. The difference is instead of flying an aircraft, he's in the War Machine.
>>84414408
Eh. It's hot, but I like the Cooke suit a lot more. It's still attractive while not looking absolutely ridiculous next to Batman.
>>84414455
>Catwoman will never wear a full-body suit
>>84414395
Either one would be okay. She could either be the JLA's Tigra or an Iron Man variant.
Hell, make it a secret identity for her. She can't join as Catwoman because she's a known criminal, so Batman sets her up with a new identity
>>84414450
Thinking about this further, lets consider some examples:
General ross could still be a gigantic millitaristic asshole, and a dick to banner and still be hulk. He's likely to work out OK enough
Blue hulk already depowered, but I think being the loose cannon sidekick hulk as in the cartoon worked well enough. His role has never been that consistent anyways, and they have Cho as well for kid sidekick.
Comissioner Gordon is too important in his role for him to stay as robo batman, so that's never going to stick.
Renee Montoya was a straight replacement as the question . If the question is back, then it completely replaces her.
It's clear that they have no idea what Cho should be in the long run. They tried Prince of Power, sticking him in the Iron spider, now he's Chulk, and we know THAT won't last.
As far as the symbiotes, I stopped paying attention when Bendis took over so I dont' have a clue of where they should end up.
>>84414408
Also I think Selina's a lot more interesting as a character when she's a good person with a love of the criminal life rather than a complete thieving bitch without many redeeming qualities other than sexe. Again, makes it understandable why Bats would like her in the first place.
As long as they wear a full costume to hide who they are I'm okay with it. Gwen does it so well, even if her series is terrible.
>>84414578
>understandable why Bats would like her in the first place.
big tits and ass in a very tight suit isn't enough any more?
It's kinda stupid if it doesn't have any type of real legs to stand on from a character and storytelling point. Like, Red She-Hulk has nothing going for herself beyond being just another Hulk spin off character. Ross kinda had something but even that isn't that sustainable in long term, imo. Rick getting powers has always been dumb, he works as a powerless supporting character, always has, always will. Rhodey first took over for Tony and then got his own armor, so it worked, kinda. The only problem was that he then became a Z-list character who can't support his own book but doesn't really find place anywhere else to appear in and he couldn't keep hanging out with Tony anymore either due to redundancy of two armor guys in one book.
>>84414716
I mean Bats doesn't have much interest in Ivy or Harley, so yeah. Selina has to appeal to something there. She's not a full on "sexy villainess," she's a free spirit with a love of cat-burglary and a grown disdain for the law.
I get why you'd think 1960s era batman lowering-robin-into-a-pit-of-lions is hot, but I don't think it's the kind of thing that works for the modern character.
>>84414285
Loeb was always a Hollywood guy who just happened to do comics on the side and somehow got popular doing that, despite most of his stories not being very good. Loeb's first comics gig was doing a Challengers of the Unknown mini because DC didn't want to give him any of the bigger properties because they thought he was just a Hollywood dweeb who would would just make a mess of thing because comics would just be a hobby to him and not a job that he takes seriously.
>>84414543
Amadeus was only in the Iron Spider suit in that cartoon
He had an Ant-Man helmet though
>>84414120
>werecat Selina
That's happened at least three times in Esleworlds and once in BTAS. People LOVE werecat Selina for some reason
What's Betty up to nowadays anyway?
>>84414810
Furries. The answer is always furries.
>>84414956
Nothing. Writers don't know what to do with her these days.
To be fair they don't know what to do with Jen either which is why she took a missile to the tit
>>84414810
Do you not?
>>84415023
That's Gargoyles fanart.
>>84413678
She really, really, needs her own superhero name.
>>84413678
It's not an innately good or bad idea. comes down to execution. The red hulks are a pretty bad example, since they're copy pastes of existing character and powersets, which is really pretty boring.
As for successful examples, I think you're forgetting a pretty obvious one, Carol Danvers. She was a side character in Captain Marvel before she got powers.
>>84415036
Basically a werecat if you get rid of the wings, anyway.
>>84413853
>Also she had power armor for one story arc in the 90s
Man, who DIDN'T have power armour in the 90s.
>>84415051
>>84415023
Come on Selina at least ditch the costume so people can't tell it's you
>>84415505
Why would she do that?
>>84415539
Didn't you see the BTAS episode? Fur is uncomfortable with that kind of suit too
>>84415689
How would you know? have you ever been covered in fur and worn a skintight leather suit?
Also yeah I've seen that episode but I dunno how that relates
>>84413678
I think Red Shulk isn't bad since we've already been introduced to other people around Banner being Hulked.
I dunno bout the rest though
>>84415055
And it had even BIGGER tits than Selina's own too boot.
Well, I know if I had been following Thor around, or Iron Man, I wouldn't say no to becoming a C-List hero with an artifact/armor myself.
To be honest I'd settle for a comfortable life with the Purple Mans power set.
all the extra hulks except Cho and Rulk got depowered I think
>>84417299
Yep. And they'll both be on team books soon.
>>84415996
Wew, m8.
>>84417381
Glorious isn't it?
>>84417581
pretty top notch
>>84414235
>Red Hulk
Not true
>>84414349
Based Cooke's is better.
>>84413727
Worse for sure. She came about towards the end of the Loeb run, at which point he had sort of written himself into a corner and the guy who picked it up after loeb was a hack.
>>84414755
>The only problem was that he then became a Z-list character who can't support his own book but doesn't really find place anywhere else to appear in and he couldn't keep hanging out with Tony anymore either due to redundancy of two armor guys in one book
If they can keep giving Miles, Sam/Nova, and fucking Squirrel Girl books you can easily give one to War Machine (who is much more prominent thanks to the movies). Just get a good writer, have some good connections to main MU and it'll sell.
>>84414775
...and if it really worked, they might have made it stick.
Instead they're slapping the armor onto MJ, which, while it's clear they have no fucking clue what to do with her, will almost certainly be retconned. They tried sticking regular spider powers on her for an arc as well.
We know Cho isn't going to stay as he is though.
>>84423532
None of the writers in Marvel's bullpen can write about war, which is what war machine needs. He needs to go to the middle east and fight super powered terrorists or somali pirates, or something else where it makes sense to take a rotary autocannon and have macross FIRE ALL THE MISSILES scene.
>>84413678
>What do you think about giving long running supporting characters superpowers and a costume?
Its great, unless all they decide to do is give them a carbon copy powerset of the main character with minimal variation, if any.
Why even do it then? They can follow similar themes, but don't make them the fucking same.
