So I have often defended Beast when arguing with Fuhrerclops fans by saying that distrust began when Scott and Emma kept secrets from Beast.
Was Beast a hypocrite to bring that to attention when he himself was meeting with the Illuminati? Was the Illuminati a secret society? Was it known to the X-Men that Beast was meeting with other Marvel capes?
can anyone give me an Illuminati list infographic of comics in which Beast appears with the other non-mutant capes?
just out of curiosity, I understand the whole rightclops thing, despite not really reading a whole lot of x-men, but I don't understand the events of beast being a race traitor?
>>84405341
He joined up with the Inhumans after Scott's Noodle Incident. Also he brought back the OG5 from the past and won't send them back. He's definitely a traitor.
>>84404602
Didn't that scene happen when Xavier was still alive, meaning HE was the one in the Illuminati?
>>84404602
How can beast even use such a tiny tablet with his big gorilla hands and razor sharp finger nails
>>84404602
>Fuhrerclops
pffftt if anyone in Marvel is a facist its Carol or maybe Hydra Cap
>>84405426
Carol. I fucking hate her. Rogue should take the rest of her powers.
I mean, screw the Illuminati argument. It was bad, but it's the least of Beast's hypocrisies. Beast was there as the token mutant.
Beast partnering up with Dark Beast and practically every other evil geneticist in the Marvel universe in Endangered Species, hiding it, then whining when Cyclops let Magneto into his inner circle, that's big.
Beast having a shitfit over X-Force only to sign up with the Secret Avengers immediately after, that's up there too.
I mean, Beast is a huuuuge hypocrite. Huge.
>>84405575
HUUUUUUUUGE
>>84405703
Doom and Sinister aren't evil Tho
>>84405776
>Sinister ain't evil
Ignoring the fact that hes literally called "Mr. Sinister", ask Cyclops if he thinks he's evil.
>>84405388
>won't send them back
that's a bullshit lie. as soon as Magneto suggested they be sent back fuhrerclops said that it wasn't important
>>84405424
he has enhanced mutant agility.
jeez, anon.
>>84405980
>fuhrerclops
Your opinion is instantly wrong as you meme.
>>84405703
>>84405575
>Endangered Species is proof of hypocrisy
how is that hypocrisy? he was trying to figure out a way to reverse scarlet witch's reality shift that made it so there were only 198 mutants. that's not a enough genetic variation.
stop being an asshole.
>>84406027
lol cyclops said it wasn't important.
looks like your narrative just drove over a massive pothole.
>>84405418
i don't know, that's what i'm trying to find out.
here's an example of the format i'm requesting. i keep forgetting what they're called
>>84406059
That act alone was perfectly fine. Beast was being pragmatic and it was completely justified. Like you said, there were only 198 mutants left on the planet.
>wah magneto is here but I'm totally fine begging help from the guy who tortured Scott as a child, created a clone of his girlfriend, and stalked his family for generations
>>84406491
>being willing to collaborate with intelligent villains to save his species, which is utilitarian, isn't an objective goal
do you even adult?
>>84406586
>ignoring the point
How is Cyclops working with Magneto any different than Beast working with the amoral scientists?
Beast blaming Cyclops for his imprisonment by Osborn and Dark Beast makes sense how?
>>84406679
In what world is this Cyclops' fault? In what world is it considered unacceptable for Beast to take one for the team once and a while?
>>84405426
I say this before in other post, but in real life situations of a group of peoples been chased (in a etnical way), and with the law and political powers against them, Cyclop was right
>>84406491
>>84406586
>wah magneto
how is it that Beast makes great points and the characters dismiss him, only so jackass fuhrerclops fans diss him for giving up on trying to please everyone?
nothing is good enough for you people
>>84406679
>ignoring the point
no, the point is Beast has tried to be moral every step of the way and everyone is throwing it in his face. the blue bastard has gone above and beyond to try to be moral.
>that image
yeah, that's where Iceman, Beast's best friend, gives him a compliment after taking his points for granted. They're forcing Beast to be a supporting character to Cyclops
>cyclops working with magneto any different than beast working with amoral scientists
he only consulted them. the only amoral scientist he worked with was Dark Beast, and that was on corpses, which was opposed to at first, even though as a doctor this shouldn't have been a problem in the first place.
>>84405980
>it wasn't important
Didn't they establish that Scott will die if his past self dies even though that's not how Marvel time travel works
>>84406750
Especially when Beast's freakout was published just a few short years after this one
>>84406847
no idea.
>>84406922
I am so certain that came up once back when I was reading X-Men.
Did they ever explain what makes Beast's time travel so different?
>>84404602
Jesus Hank is such a bitch. Ok first of all Scott was tortured and KILLED in The X-men series written by Joss Weedon. Literally murdered in space. Scott did whatever he had to to stay alive, and all he asked was for fucking Hank to do the same. But he didn't. Once he was the one getting tortured, he got all pissy with Scott. Guess what you fucking bitch. Scott already FUCKING DIED FOR YOU. Multiple times. He was possessed by goddamn Apocolpyse, he was fucking murdered, he had his child sent into the FUCKING FUTURE to save mutant kind and his kid from the techno-organic virus, give him a GODDAMN break when the mutant race has 200 people in it. Fuck off Hank, you race-traitor bastard. The only reason he brought the O5 back was because he was dying and wanted to spite Scott. Guess what, even the Watcher thought Hank was a piece of fucking shit. Fuck off Beast, Fuck off.
>>84406978
Yeah so he uses one of Doctor Doom's Time Travel platforms, which actually brings someone from the past instead of an alt. version of them. It's not that Hank is special, he stole it from Doc Doom.
>>84405776
>Sinister
Hol up.
>>84407004
top kek
beast is a tool
>>84406862
This is Astonishing right?
Fuck that trash.
>>84407037
Do they ever explain how he got his hands on one of those or did he build Doom tech all by himself?Sorry if these are dumb questions I stopped reading X-Men right around the time battle of the atom started or whatever that event was called
>>84407188
It's basically a one-off panel where he confiscates it from someone. I can't remember exactly but yeah he just "gets it" somehow. Doom Tech is the only way to actually travel back in time and not another timeline though (see X-factor with Jamie Madrox for more info).
>>84407188
Bendis writes this shit so you can't expect him to have logic or use continuity.
>>84407037
>he stole it
yeah could have sworn it was from FF. if FF gave it to him then they were the ones that stole it. sounds an awful lot like you just want to talk shit about Beast
>>84404602
>Fuhrerclops
>Not "Reichlops/Reichclops"
>>84407004
>scott was tortured
>beast would have let him languish in misery
>character assassination
oh i'm sorry, did beast wait around until it was convenient to save him? was that something Hank had control over? how long was he tortured for? was it longer than beast?
>the Watcher
holy shit like anyone gives a damn what he thinks
>give scott the break when there's 200 mutants left
and Hank literally did everything he could to fix that situation. he's been there the entire time.
you know what Hank doesn't do? he doesn't keep secrets. they have nothing if they don't trust each other.
>>84407004
>JJEEEEEAAAAAAANNN
>>84408001
He was in the Illuminati. Hid he was dying . Hid he brought O5 back at first. Hank is a sneak
>>84408254
Hid what he was doing with Dark Beast. Hid his association with the Secret Avengers....
Anyone else remember the Legacy virus shit where Hank totally let Sinister take Threnody to do his Mengele-level experiments on her? All because he knew Sinister would go the extra mile that he didn't have the stones for?
Beast has been a shit for decades.
>>84407861
Talking shit about Hank is a meme at this point. Like God forbid you say anything positive about him. All you can talk about him is how much he fucked up.
>>84408908
Kinda like how Marvel keeps shitting on Cyclops, now that you think about it.
>>84408501
>hid what he was doing with dark beast
in order to cure a disease, yes. it wasn't immoral, it was macabre. when cyclops kept secrets, people were dying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threnody_(comics)
"Threnody was present at Lefferts’ lab when both Mister Sinister and the X-Men came searching for the geneticist’s work on the virus. Sinister was intrigued by Threnody, seeing her as a potential bloodhound to hunt down infected mutants for him in his efforts to stop the spread of the virus. He offered to try to help Melody, suggesting that at the very least her powers could help locate those in need of assistance due to the Legacy Virus. Threnody tentatively agreed. Beast and Rogue were reluctant to allow Threnody to go with Sinister instead of returning with them to the mansion but Hank realized that Sinister might be better equipped to fight the virus…for he had no conscience to hold him back in his search for a cure.[2]
Threnody quickly improved under Sinister’s care. His treatments stabilized her mind and restored her lucidity, although the deathcries of others still rang in her ears."
anon, you should stop trying to obfuscate in order assassinate someone's character. bearing false witness is intellectually dishonest.
>hid his association with secret avengers
and what other mutant has the opportunity to form an alliance outside mutancy with other heroes? his association with the avengers is an asset to keeping mutants safe. putting in face time with the avengers is a way to remind them they mutants exist. why did he leave the secret avengers in issue 37?
>>84406491
>>84406679
this right here is the problem.
>iceman dismisses beast victimization
>iceman says beast is a rock that's always there to stabilize them
these are the words of a sociopath. if he thinks hank's a rock that stabilizes, then he deserves respect. if iceman truly couldn't give a shit about the reasoning that beast is using, iceman is no longer a friend.
>>84406491
>>84406679
scott has serious relationships, with psychics.
beast tries to talk about his problems with his best friend, and his so-called best friend dismisses him.
i don't know what the writers are thinking, but the characters are alienating Hank like a motherfucker.
>>84409079
>>84409185
Well you can't make Cyclops not suffer or Beast redeem himself, that's bad for business cause of your fanbase who are the equivilant to a beaten housewife. You gotta milk the Rightclops cow as much as you can. You also gotta shit on Beast constantly until you push him into a shitty B-team to guarantee no one would ever see him again once the Mutant universe is finally made.
>>84409137
>quoting wikipedia
Completely invalidating your entire argument. Read more comics and gtfo till you do.
>>84409272
>you can't make cyclops not suffer
i don't think you read the latter comment you're replying to. the writers showcase his psychic gfs on the regular. he gets to play lead roles all the time.
>you gotta shit on Beast constantly
no. you don't.
>shitty b-team
i don't think you understand. beast isn't shitting up anything, the other characters are being compromised in order to shit on beast. the a-team is alienating a single character with bad reasoning and they look retarded for it.
Storm literally said "we can't even remember why we were mad at you"
translation: "you did some things that we perceive as crazy and you're super intelligent and that scares us."
magneto and angel said send them back and cyclops said it wasn't important. if this is the pre-text to the "mutant universe" it's going to be shit
the mutants were written as an oppressed minority. what purpose do the characters serve by living without humans and other superheroes from the marvel universe? what do you mean by "mutant universe". is this a universe where they aren't discriminated against or in danger?
>>84409397
attacking the source is not an argument
show us a picture with the word bubbles and prove it wrong
>the watcher
>talking about what disgusts him
didn't the watcher interfere with that reality? who the hell is he to judge? fuck him.
so the argument has become
"Beast is a shit for not having the balls to get his hands dirty when it came to Threnody....
....but he's also a shit for getting his hands dirty by messing with timelines even though when Magneto said "send these kids back to their own timeline", Cyclops said that it didn't matter and because Cyclops was the leader, everyone went along with it, thus passing the buck and placing all blame on beast anyway"
>beast is a shit for not doing the hard stuff
>does research on corpses with his amoral dimensional survivor self to try to find a way
>no one died directly as a result of researching corpses
doctors do research on cadavers to get through medical school. this is not some kind of over the top crime. a lot of you out there are reaching
>>84409815
>does research on corpses with his amoral dimensional survivor self to try to find a way
>no one died directly as a result of researching corpses
Go tell it to the Guthries
>>84409878
researching dead corpses did not kill the guthries, genius.
>>84406059
So, he was trying to do something Scott actually managed to do.
Are we sure Beast is not just jelly of him?
>>84409815
Beast is a shit for letting Sinister take her in the first place.
>>84409895
>Being Hank McCoy
>Partnering with your dark counterpart from a twisted future researching on corpses
>Being SHOCKED and APPALLED when your dark counterpart from a twisted future starts experimenting on living people
SHOCKED I TELL YOU!
NEVER SAW IT COMING!
tl:dr beast is objectively awful
I don't even like Cyclops.
>>84409983
>threnody volunteers
>blaming someone other than the volunteer
>blaming beast as if he had absolute control over a group conversation
sinister helped her control her powers and ease her pain. he literally gave her palliative care that was in her best medical interest
fuck yourselves. beast did not dirty his hands and you're pissed about it, but when he does dirty his hands you're pissed about it. get the fuck off your period, one-eye.
>>84409965
>jealousy
strawman argument
>>84407188
>>84407680
Ironically this is the only time bendis followed continutity it came from x-factors run and was an important part of the storyline and unfortunately lead down to AvX,
>>84412148
Bullshit, every time I've engaged one of these "Bendis ignores continuity" pushers they've always cited something that was explainable by the minutiae in canon that the anon read but just didn't pay attention to.
Like that Doom's time platform detail. That's a pretty important point that the Original Five story totally hinges on and some people just don't want to admit it even exists just because they want to shitpost on Marvel some more.
>>84412148
Did they mention Doomlocks in Bendis' book?
I feel like Ultimates was the first time they were mentioned in relation to the O5
>>84408001
Hank kept Wolverine's secret about Uncanny X-Force
>>84409983
Threnody was a mentally unstable homeless girl who had no idea who Sinister really was or what he was capable of.
If there's a better argument for her being incapable of proper judgement and that Beast should have made that call for her, I can't think of it.
The whole point of that story was to ask what's more ethical, the best interests of the individual patient under your care, OR the best interests of a majority of people?
Hank's ethics were on trial in that issue.
And he chose to break his Hippocratic oath in putting hopes for a Legacy virus cure above this girl's best interests.
And it needs to be said that Threnody hasn't been seen since and that Mr.Sinister didn't cure the Legacy virus.
