How does /co/ feel about African superheroes or African-inspired speculative fiction at all?
If they're works of quality, I dig it. I wish more would get attention.I'm familiar with Asian and Anglo spec fiction not so much with that of African people.
>>84363206
>I'm familiar with Asian and Anglo spec fiction not so much with that of African people.
That's what I've been thinking about.
Thing about Asian and Western speculative fiction, they're ultimately steeped in Asian and Western culture standards, values, and philosophy. If you look at a lot of American superheroes, you'll find heroes constructed around American values that have been ingrained in our country since its inception. But if you look at these African superheroes in fiction, like Black Panther or Vixen (though I love them), they're not as influenced by African culture as they should be. They're ultimately Western. And it's not just superheroes, it's fiction in general.
I was just thinking about this over the past few days. That's what really excites me about Afrofuturism. It's not just a setting or some vaguely African aesthetics (though the aesthetics really intrigue me as well), it's examining science fiction or fantasy through an African lens.
It just sucks for me because there really aren't a whole lot of works that really do that sort of thing.
>>84363938
What is an African lens, though?
I doubt it's all homogeneous.
It's about damn time that we got more Anansi the Spider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMmi854Fxsg
>name is black panther
>there are no panthers in africa
>there is no such thing as a panther
>>84363991
>What is an African lens, though?
>I doubt it's all homogeneous.
That is true.
I guess you might have to look at different regions of Africa, like West Africa, Central Africa, and so on.
Thing is, though it's not homogeneous, plenty of African nations tend to share at some some aspects of culture anyway. But my point is, an Afrofuturist work could eschew Western iconography, values, and that sort of thing, replacing them with aspects of African culture or imagery. Like for example, all the works inspired by Western mythology, like the Greek pantheon or Norse mythology. What if we got something inspired by Yoruban mythology or something? What if we got something Tolkien-esque but steeped in that sort of culture?
>>84364044
Anansi the Spider was a freaking badass. Damn I should rewatch this show.
I wanna get into afropunk but i'm lazy
I don't care, "African" stuff should stay in Africa.
>>84364151
We could, but the problem is in marketability. Maybe it's just my perspective but, while things involving black America can sell, things involving African culture are not paid much mind unless it's a documentary/drama about how shitty it apparently is.
You'd be fighting a really steep uphill.
I am interested in your picture of an African Tolkien fantasy, though.
>>84364417
>We could, but the problem is in marketability.
>Maybe it's just my perspective but, while things involving black America can sell, things involving African culture are not paid much mind unless it's a documentary/drama about how shitty it apparently is.
No, you're right. It's never been something that the mainstream has been particularly interested in, but I'm hoping the Black Panther movie opens up the door for Afrofuturism in the mainstream.
>I am interested in your picture of an African Tolkien fantasy, though.
It's something that's way too ambitious for me, especially at the moment, but it's something that I've been tossing around in my mind and something that I'd LOVE to see someday.
Anyone interested in an African centered fantasy should read "Nada the Lily," by H.Rider Haggard. I finished it a while ago and really reinforced how storytelling is a universal language.
>>84365681
Thanks anon, I'll check it out.
>>84364135
There are panthers in Wakanda
I find it interesting. I'd like Black Panther more if I didn't find the way it pushes the race card so hard to be kind of offensive, at least from what little I've read of it. Which is admittedly not much, but it's comic called fucking Black Panther. I think my assessment is probably fair here.
>>84364135
That reminds me, I was reading the aforementioned "Nada the lily," I skipped the preface. In the story there are wolves that play a major part in the story. Now while I knew through second hand knowledge that wolves don't act the way they were depicted in the story, I was completely ignorant of the fact that there really aren't any wolves in Africa. The preface which I read later mentioned the absence of Wolves, but it really didn't change anything. To make a long story short "Wolf brethren," has a better kick to it than "hyena brethren."
>>84363206
This. If well done, sounds interesting.
>>84365904
T'challa predated the Black Panthers.
>>84365904
>>84366081
And though Black Panther's always been political, it's not really been all about racial politics either. He's always been more about dealing with threats from within Wakanda that attempt to dethrone him and responding to the wants and needs of the Wakandan people.
It's like when people think WW is a man-hating feminist when that's not even remotely true.
>>84366081
>>84366289
Well, I guess I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about then. The only Black Panther I've ever read was a bit of him from Civil War, so I'm kind of judging it based entirely on that.
I'm surprised by the fact that this is the most Civil thread on the board
>>84362045
Don't know, same as the rest of them.
>>84366800
It's been a rough week.
>>84366800
Give it time
I recommend Will Eisner's Sundiata, it's a short read about the founder of the Mali Empire. It's a fantastic tale, and another example the universalityof stories.
>>84366873
You have no idea anon Jesus fucking Christ
>>84366941
>All this shit that I need to read
Jesus christ, thanks anon.
>>84362045
Pretty sure "/co/" thinks its an excuse to regurgitate the "we wuz kangs" meme.
>>84364044
is right and Anansi is great tho.
>>84367085
There are a fair number of African folklore books in the public domain as well. I bought some, but I've actually got to go about reading them as well as some Pre-colonial history books. The folklore can sometimes make some crazy leaps in logic and display the utmost in human brutality, humans gonna human I guess.
>>84364417
>>84364555
There is a strong subset of Afrofuturism that comes out of black America.
>>84362045
Came here to say Coates' Black panther is downright trash.
>>84367213
Right, but I don't think that's what most people look forward to or even notice.
>>84365904
>I think my assessment is probably fair here.
it's not
>>84365904
If they write him as a Wakandan king, like they seem to have correctly done, instead of a black american, there will be no problem.
>>84367197
Any books that you'd recommend though?
I've been meaning to read up on African folk tales .
>>84367506
Let's see if I can remember :
Southern Nigeria Folktales
Myths and Legends of the Bantu
Hausa Folktales
I got another one in the mail recently, but for the life of me I can't remember its name. Some of the stories don't follow certain conventions of storytelling and can end rather abruptly. All three are on the public domain although the first is the easiest to find.
>>84364135
>national coat of arms has a white panther
>There are no panthers in Austria
>>84367700
Thanks!
>>84367751
ARE THE CHAMPIONS, MY FRIENDS
I am currently getting inspiration from that for my School project.
>>84368336
Is this yours? That's really good, anon.
>>84368336
>>84368402
And third. Just to show.
All that to say. Afropunk is fun
>>84368421
>bloodbornelore.png
>>84368476
I actually didn't know this game existed. But OK.
>>84368402
>>84368421
W-would you like to collaborate sometime? I can write.
I'm trying to work on some African inspired fantasy, but I just need to do some more reading on pre-colonial history, everyday life, and folklore. I also need to actually take notes and stuff.
I also found the idea of a superhero running around in an African nation to be somewhat discomforting. I know Superheroes can boost morale, and are pure fantasy,but I find it more believable if the Superhero is roaming around in a setting whose real world equivalent is rather "safe." Hell even within America how many actively ongoing stories deal with a city or country that's not modeled after New York? How would people feel about Detroit or Chicago as a setting?
>>84368336
>>84368402
>>84368421
>Mignola makes African sci-fi
Seriously though, looks good /co/mrade.
>>84368522
Hey why not. Could be fun!
>>84362045
>African-inspired speculative fiction
There's not a whole lot of it and for what there is, it's mostly Egypt-inspired.
>>84368531
>I'm trying to work on some African inspired fantasy, but I just need to do some more reading on pre-colonial history, everyday life, and folklore. I also need to actually take notes and stuff.
Don't I know it. I want to seriously educate myself on the subject.
>I also found the idea of a superhero running around in an African nation to be somewhat discomforting.
Africa's a very sensitive subject though. I can understand why someone might not want to write a superhero work there or pretend everything's all fine and great when there's so much poverty, still war occasionally, malnutrition, disease, corruption, rape, superstition, homophobia, and so on. Most places in Africa really aren't happy places, I'd imagine. And you don't want a setting where all those problems magically disappear, as it cheapens what people actually go through and does nothing to help those actual problems IRL. It comes off as silly, stupid, and naive.
But at the same time, it's not entirely doom and gloom either, and some places, like much of South Africa, are rather nice in a lot of places, or so I hear. So you run the risk of looking ignorant and racist when you portray Africa as nothing but a terrible place.
I think you can circumvent much of those issues if you just write an African-inspired fantasy or sci-fi setting but even then, you might want to include some issues that are prevalent in African societies anyway.
You basically have to tread waters very carefully when writing fiction set in Africa or African-inspired settings imo. Unless you're actually from some place in Africa, in which case, you're probably good.
>>84368545
R-really?I just followed your tumblr. Should I message you there?
>>84368531
>How would people feel about Detroit or Chicago as a setting?
That's essentially Hub City a.k.a. The Question's city. The place is a shithole, and is always going to be a shithole, but he heroes on anyway. I believe it's based on East St. Lious, one of the worst cities in America.
If it was actually african, it mite be cool.
But what you are talking about is african-american stuff aka nigger shit by dumb white liberal douchebags.
>>84368622
No problem! Ill reply as soon as I can
>>84368661
Read it again, OP's asking about AFRICAN-inspired fiction, not African-American which there's plenty of that.
>>84362045
Wakanda has always felt like a weird wish fulfilment idea.
I like Black Panther, and I like his stories where he is the ruler of Wakanda, but the concept still feels kind of awkward to me.
It's well done when they don't call it "the most advanced nation on Earth" and stupid shit like that.
When an actual good writer writes it as a nation that's developed along other lines thats ahead in some areas, and behind in others it gets better.
Don't write wish-fufillment we wuz kangz shit, basically is what I'm saying.
>>84367213
>black America.
>AFRICAN futurism
>America
>>84368715
>Wakanda has always felt like a weird wish fulfilment idea.
99% of cape comics are wish-fufillment in one way or another.
I don't know if there's a need for that.
What I do know is that I'm sick of
>japanese folklore
>inclusion of black people into predominantly white stuff
>african folklore being a rare occurence
The thing is depicting Africa "how it really is" without pissing someone off is hard. As someone pointed out, it's a vast continent with lots of different places and many are great, many are horrible.
I'm reminded of a commercial that used to pass on tv in my home country (Senegal) which started with a message :"this is the africa media shows (cue images of dying people and flies), but this is africa they never show (cue images of buildings, companies, riches and development).
I think we can portray africa's nice places but a white person would be ill advised to touch anything african related.
We have a lot of folklore that inspired a lot of stuff. Like pic related which inspired the tales that served for Melody of the South. But I think a black person risks less by touching upon that too.
There's Aya de Yopougon that's also great. It's about every day life in a suburb. All about love stories and the people's way of life.
You can find some stuff, but there's not a lot of it.
>>84368669I just sent you a message.
>>84368724
You don't have to be actually African to write an Afrofuturist work though. Afrofuturism just refers to the creation of speculative fiction through an African lens. Shit you can be white American or whatever and still write an Afrofuturist work.
>>84368794
>You don't have to be actually African to write an Afrofuturist work though
This guy gets it.
Though I think it's risky. You will always piss off someone. I personally don't give a shit if people are pissed, and maybe most artists don't, but then comes the fact that people will take everything you do with a grain of salt because you're not "the right color"
You should check out the recent issue of light speed magazine for a show case of non white voices in science fiction
http://www.destroysf.com
>>84367700
Fell asleep, thanks!
Best African superhero passing through...
>>84368336
What are they going to do with those persons?
>>84369762
Pile them up in an underground bunker.
They have a glitch.
>>84368531
I recommend reading Unknown Soilder by Joshua Dysart for inspiration and answering your questions. Damn good comic and a good example of doing research and respecting the culture of its subject.
>>84366289
>It's like when people think WW is a man-hating feminist when that's not even remotely true.
To be fair she sometimes starts as something kind of like that
>>84365904
Imagine they if they would have put a scene of him Falcon and War Machine talking, solely because all three are black brothers yo.
>>84362045
Storm's awesome because she's a relatable hero when written well. Black Panther's shit because MUH AFRICA, MUH BLACK, MUH GARYSTU.
I'd be interested to read it if it came out of Africa itself or at least someone who has spent some time over there living.
When ever Africa ends up in a Western comic 9/10 its about white messiahs protecting/defending the helpless tribes people (who still live in huts) from evil warlords. Most recently I think was Amazing Spider-Man v4 #3? #4?
I'd be interested to see more fiction come out of actual Africa. There's a huge black hole (pardon the phrase) over Africa as far as entertainment goes. I want to see the fiction writing that comes out of it.
>How does /co/ feel about African superheroes
I feel they're usually ruined by tokenism at the hands of the hack writers that infest the industry. When one appears I'm too often reminded of a weeaboo, who knows nothing about japan, pretending to be japanese then bragging about.
>>84369286
It's not risky, it just requires more research because you don't default to that mindset. Like, I can write a story about a white guy any day of the week and no one will bat an eye because I'm used to that outlook and those social conventions, etc ,etc because I'm a white guy.
I can write a story "through and African lens" as OP worded it, but it would require more work and research to get accurate.
>>84368738
Elements of wish-fulfillment are fine. Peter Parker gets spider powers and girls but that's balanced with increased hardships and suffering. The current Black Panther has Wakandan rape tree houses that contrast with the advanced technology.
The problem (which applies to Wakanda and anything else in a story) is when there isn't anything to balance out the exceptionality and it's just the author jerking themselves off.
>>84372554
So like with Batman?
>>84368119
This is amusing given where the guy was from.
>>84369734
Check your white privilege, cishet shitlord.
>>84366873
>>84367038
What's been happening, does it have anything to do with ironyoung adult black woman?
