I understand liking it, it's totally fine if you do.
But why are people convinced Batman v Superman is some kind of underappreciated masterpiece that critics and moviegoers are too stupid to understand? With the way some people talk about it, you would think it was a work of art and the Citizen Kane of superhero films.
>>84330177
As someone who really liked it, most of the "SNYDERKINO" posters are just contrarian faggot trolls. There's a lot wrong with it. I just think what's right about it is really, really cool.
>>84330177
they don't, it's just memes to bait idiots to join/oppose them, then they back away and watch the conflict.
Same shit happened with Bane in /tv/ and countless other memes.
>>84330274
Which is not to say it's absolute trash, but it's an easy target because it already comes with console-war teams readied.
>>84330177
It's really stupid but highly enjoyable. It's not an arthouse film or anything like that. If I wanted to watch something like that, I'd watch something out of the Criterion collection.
it was a /tv/ meme at first but then people started to actually believe it
>>84330177
Anti-Life justifys my shilling
>>84330572
I don't think they DO actually believe it. Not all memes are THAT zany.
>>84330640
>>84330177
It's a /tv/ meme.
That's just what they do
Literally just memes.
>>84330177
I do believe there is a distinct bias against it.
>>84330640
>>84330654
>>84330669
>>84330682
>>84330699
>>84330711
>>84330720
I haven't laughed this hard since I met Ben Garrison or when Marcus was in the garden.
>>84330640
>>84330669
>>84330682
>>84330699
>>84330711
>>84330720
/tv/'s dedication to their memes is almost inspiring
almost
>>84330177
>some kind of underappreciated masterpiece that critics and moviegoers are too stupid to understand?
More like it just show the bias that critics have.
BvS has some problems and it gets 28% at rotten tomatoes.
Age of Ultron is almost as badly directed and written as Transformers and yet it gets a pass by critics at over 60% on rotten tomates at the very least
>>84330177
Cause actig like its the worst piece of hot garbage ever is just wrong. Its at least a 7/10.
>>84330177
The movie was so bad that liking it became a meme.
>>84330177
Maybe it wouldn't have come to this point if people didn't lie about the sorts of "problems" it had. It's always these weird plot questions that could be answered easily by paying attention during the movie, then people get mad when others answer the questions. Critics shouldn't have told falsehoods in the reviews and should have given it a proper score. It was a really good movie.
>>84330177
>>But why are people convinced Batman v Superman is some kind of underappreciated masterpiece that critics and moviegoers are too stupid to understand?
No one who is not an avowed troll thinks that.
>>84330774
Nah, it is just a plain bad movie
>>84330831
>BvS has some problems
That's a massive understatement. It's 45 minutes too long, extremely compressed and jarring despite its massive runtime, character motivations are nonsensical, basic elements of the script fail to materialize in execution (grimdark murderer Superman in no way contrasts grimdark murderer Batman, we are given no view of how Batman used to operate so we have nothing to compare his ruthless behavior to, MARTHA), Gal Godot's speech is nearly unintelligible, the finale is equal parts nonsensical, loud, and pointless, I could go on.
It is at the very least semi-coherent and it has a semi-consistent tone (excepting strange instances of poorly timed comedy) which gives it a leg up over Man of Steel but that's not something to brag about.
>Age of Ultron is almost as badly directed and written as Transformers
I was no fan of Age of Ultron, but it was nowhere near as poorly directed or written as Bayformers. That's just a ridiculous statement.
>>84330177
It was not great, but not bad. The only thing tbat i thought was terrible was the actress for wonderwoman, who i was convinced was catwoman the entire time.
>>84330177
Man of Steel is my 2nd favorite movie and even I don't think it's some godly masterpiece.
>>84331188
>it's so obvious!
Your headcanon is not the same thing as the movie's script.
>>84330177
Its definitely not a masterpiece.
But a lot of fucking people are too stupid to get it.
>Hence them not getting the point of the "martha" resolution.
>Hence them not getting why Clark dying here meant alot more then it did in the comics.
>Hence them not getting why Bruce was killing in this universe.
>Hence them not knowing what Lex's motivation is despite him spelling it out.
>>84331307
1.) Killing in self defense or defense of others is not fucking murder you god damn retard.
2.) Clark & Bruce are grim in this film for entirely different reasons.
3.) Clark is not even remotely grimdark in this, see pic related.
>>84331378
>>Hence them not getting the point of the "martha" resolution.
No, it was clear as the sky. That's exactly the problem. Everyone got it, it was just hamfisted and stupid as fuck.
You're right about some of those tho.
>>84331378
>they didn't get Martha
Enlighten us. Oh, but don't try to say it humanized him or made him realize he was acting like his parent's murderer. Both of those theories are fucking retarded (see >>84331340)
>Clark dying meant something here
Elaborate with details from the movie
>Why Bruce was killing
Elaborate with details from the movie, and keep in mind that he continues killing after the MARTHA moment.
>Lex spelled out his motivation
I'm not sure you know what spelling out is, but go ahead and tell us his clear motivation. If you're going to say something retarded about his complex about gods being evil because daddy hit him as a child that don't really motivate someone to create doomsday or specifically send Batman after him. Also regardless of motivation it makes no sense to do both plans simultaneously.
>>84330177
GO BACK TO /tv/ ALREADY
>>84331495
Kek the whole "it should have been explicitly explained to me" argument is such a fucking millennial thing to say. Sorry your generation is a bunch of brain dead retards. I bet you think True Detective is confusing too.
>>84331416
>Clark is not remotely grimdark in this
IF I WANTED IT YOU'D BE DEAD ALREADY
I'LL DO YOU A FAVOR AND BRING YOU IN IN ONE PIECE
THE BAT IS DEAD, BURY IT
>oh hey it's a saving people montage, this should brighten up his im-
SLOW MO DARK LIGHTING SAD MUSIC SAVING PEOPLE IS SUCH A BURDEN
>>84331495
>Clark dying meant something here
Elaborate with details from the movie
Proved to the world once and for all that his intent was noble and good & that he was willing to die for them.
>>84331531
I'm not saying it should have been explicitly explained to me. In fact, I'm not asserting anything.
I'm asking >>84331378 , who has asserted that these things are obvious, what his interpretation is.
>>84331531
Are you seriously arguing he doesn't like Batman vs Superman because he's a millennial?
>>84331574
Which would matter if the world not trusting Clark was an important part of the movie, but it turned out not to be. Even the congressional bombing, the moment in the script where the clear progression would be to have people suspect Superman caused the explosion or purposefully didn't prevent it, is immediately declared to be the work of an anti-Superman extremist and Superman had nothing to do with it.
You could remove that entire element from the story and absolutely nothing would change. The only person that needs to distrust Superman is Batman, and you can write Batman to distrust fucking anything because he's goddamn Batman
>>84331543
>IF I WANTED IT YOU'D BE DEAD ALREADY
His mother's life is on the line & he is trying to get it thru Bruce's head how redundant this is.
>I'LL DO YOU A FAVOR AND BRING YOU IN IN ONE PIECE
Lex just thru Lois off a balcony.
>THE BAT IS DEAD, BURY IT
Bruce is torturing people & just caused some deaths in the chase Clark interrupted.
>>84331652
Explaining circumstances where he is grimdark is not arguing against the assertion that Superman in this movie (and universe) is just as dark as Batman and therefore does not work as a contrast.
>>84331543
When the fuck was it decided that Superman isn't allowed to threaten people in dire situations?
I have a issue from the mid 2000s with him threatening to rip Silver Banshee's head off after he finds her with a pile of bodies in the middle of the street.
>>84331307
I haven't watched BVS yet, but the extremely loud thing is one of the dullest shit Snyder keeps pulling off and being hailed as "style".
I hate this loud, shaky shit cinematography has to stop.
>>84331652
And nothing of that is grimdark.
>>84331624
I liked Batman better when he was fighting mobsters, street-criminals, weird psychopaths and terrorists,
And not asserting that he's the only guy on Earth who's allowed to be a destructive vigilante.
>>84331495
>>they didn't get Martha
>Enlighten us. Oh, but don't try to say it humanized him or made him realize he was acting like his parent's murderer. Both of those theories are fucking retarded (see >>84331340)
Only because YOU think so
>>Clark dying meant something here
>Elaborate with details from the movie
>>Why Bruce was killing
>Elaborate with details from the movie, and keep in mind that he continues killing after the MARTHA moment.
It doesn't change his killing rule, it's changed his vision of Superman. You clearly didn't understand martha-moment.
>>Lex spelled out his motivation
>I'm not sure you know what spelling out is, but go ahead and tell us his clear motivation. If you're going to say something retarded about his complex about gods being evil because daddy hit him as a child that don't really motivate someone to create doomsday or specifically send Batman after him. Also regardless of motivation it makes no sense to do both plans simultaneously.
You've already putting it in position where any reply to you wouldn't change anything, because you said so. Bravo.
>>84330177
It's just trolling.
Some people dug it, some didn't. It's not total shit like some say, but it's certainly not the best cape film of even this year.
>>84330177
Because that was the case with MoS.
It definitely isn't the case with BvS. I wish it was, but it is not.
>>84330669
in those 'black and white greek images' there's a dude with a rifle.
>s-s-s-s-sounds like a job for /x/!
>>84331679
Exactly. Superman and Batman are both sullen dudes who give no fucks about the Law of of the Land or collateral damage.
They should have bro'ed it up from the first, maybe compared capes or something.
>>84331598
Im saying expecting a movie to spell everything out and not picking up on implied meanings is a very genetation Y criticism. Honestly if you are under 21 you probably have very stunted deductive skills because of all the handholding and coddling that that generation grew up with.
>>84331531
>I bet you think True Detective is confusing too.
It's confusing at first, because it's might to be, it's a fucking detective drama.
>>84331495
>and keep in mind that he continues killing after the MARTHA moment.
Up to that point he had been killing in reckless or unjustified circumstances.
Him shooting the gas tank to save Martha was 100% justified.
>but go ahead and tell us his clear motivation
He wants to stain Superman's reputation, hence his line "they need to see the fraud you are, the blood on your hands".
He is using Batman as a prop for Clark to kill that will stain his hands for the world to see.
>>84331624
>Which would matter if the world not trusting Clark was an important part of the movie
That is the entire reasoning for Clark's dour mood and conflicted state.
>>84331781
>He is using Batman as a prop for Clark to kill that will stain his hands for the world to see.
Batman is a kill crazy vigilante with a massive arsenal of firepower he's pretty loose about using. Killing Punisherbats isn't going to overly tarnish Superman's already questionable reputation.
>>84331679
But none of that was even remotely grimdark.
Especially with the context.
If he was going around threatening regular people for no reason.
And I don't give a rats ass if there is contrast.
>>84331684
>When the fuck was it decided that Superman isn't allowed to threaten people in dire situations?
It wasn't. Anon said that Superman is too dark to work effectively as a contrast to Batman in BvS and that's absolutely true.
Please do try to pay attention. I know reading comprehension is difficult but you can do it pal-o.
>>84331702
>NO YOU
that's not an argument, address the image
>it changed his vision of Superman
That's retarded for reasons I've already stated that you've failed to address.
>You've already putting it in position where any reply to you wouldn't change anything, because you said so.
Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like? You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that?
>>84331763
>Im saying expecting a movie to spell everything out and not picking up on implied meanings is a very genetation Y criticism
Except no one has said anything even remotely resembling that. You literally made it up.
Also people under 21 are not a millenial, 1995 is the start of Gen Z. You're an idiot.
>>84331340
That post still doesn't get Martha.
Saving people and having a girlfriend aren't the same as Superman willing to die if it means his mother will live.
He's an invincible space superman. Saving people never puts him in any danger, only the other people that are put at risk when a single guy with too much power pushes things that shouldn't be moved without some serious consideration.
Having a girlfriend could mean anything. Eva Braun didn't humanize Adolf Hitler.
He could be simply using her.
In that scene he gives up. And his priority, the only reason he was doing that, is his mother's life. Sure, he could have refused to fight or try to explain to Batman from the get go. But he panicked, he got frustrated. Because he's a more flawed Superman than the one we're used to read about. Same as in MoS when he went apeshit when the kryptonians threatened his mother.
It's not my favorite version of the character, but it's consistent and works in the story that's being told.
>>84331820
Saving 7-8 Billion people twice makes his reputation questionable how?
>>84331781
>he wants to stain Superman's reputation
That's not a motivation, anon. A motivation would be "He wants to stain Superman's reputation BECAUSE X"
>>84331808
But Clark's "dour mood and conflicted state" don't enter into the plot. It's an orphaned plot thread.
>>84331763
You do realize a world beyond the US exists and that BvS was also hated there, right? It's less likely that the feeble-minded millenials didn't get the subtle nuances of a movie about men in tights punching each other and more that the movie was badly written
>>84330177
People see this movie as a "masterpiece" because they have this concept that using symbolism automatically makes a movie good.
Symbolism is NOT a substitute for decent plot and characters.
>>84331893
>Superman willing to die if it means his mother will live
lol wat? That just didn't happen. Superman wasn't saying "It's ok if you kill me just save my mum" he was desperately trying to let Batman know Martha was in danger.
>In that scene he gives up
Did we watch the same movie? He's beaten, not surrendering.
Oops, you made shit up. Try again.
>>84331863
Kek stay buttmad you cant comprehend implications and need everything spelled out for you
>>84331909
>But Clark's "dour mood and conflicted state" don't enter into the plot. It's an orphaned plot thread.
Yes they do if much of the plot (senate hearings, people lying about him, people framing him, people not appreciating his acts) caused his mood/state.
>>84331924
I love mos & bvs (mos much more so) and I do not give a rats fucking ass about the symbolism in them.
>>84331940
I'm just going to let you re-read the thread and hope you can see how what you're saying is circular
>>84331936
He's telling him to go save her. He's clearly not thinking that he's going to be able to do it himself.
So, he gives up.
Oops, you're assuming that your interpretation is the correct one when there's actually room to read the scene in a very different way.
>>84332033
>He's telling him to go save her. He's clearly not thinking that he's going to be able to do it himself.
Yes, because he's about to be impaled on a spear.
>So, he gives up.
Not in the way you implied, that's equivocation. Your argument only works if he gives himself up when he could survive/win, not if he's beaten and gives up hope of survival.
>oh my god you guys this scene is so fucking obvious
>but it's also got lots of room for interpretation and could be read many different ways
You went full retard
>>84331924
>muh plot
You get all the information in the form of symbols, the problem is most of the american public is too ignorant to get Lex's act just by hearing the word prometheus and even when Doomsday "creationg" ends up being the same as Adam Frankenstein's birth, electricity in
>>84332095
>Your argument only works if he gives himself up when he could survive/win, not if he's beaten and gives up hope of survival.
... why? Why does it matter if he's beaten? It's the difference between pleading for your own life or someone else's.
Jesus' sacrifice means less because he was beaten? Okay, sure.
In ten years, BvS will be regarded as a masterpiece all superhero films should aspire to be, while the MCU will be a distant memory.
>>84332217
>... why? Why does it matter if he's beaten?
Because your entire premise is based on Superman SACRIFICING himself to save his mother. It's not a sacrifice if you had no choice in the matter, it's just getting killed.
>>84330774
Yeah definitely. Look at those reviews. "Just wait until Civil War comes out!"
>>84332095
>SU
lol your bvs defense force everybody
>>84330177
Because of the over the top hate this film garners it naturally moves the people who mildly liked it into the more defensive camp. It happens with people like Kanye, Trump and every other divisive person and topic.
Hyperbole breeds hyperbole.
The people you refer to in:
>With the way some people talk about it, you would think it was a work of art and the Citizen Kane of superhero films.
are the same (just on the opposite side fo the spectrum) as the people saying:
>The movie was so bad that liking it became a meme.
>>84330957
or
>Nah, it is just a plain bad movie
>>84331298
because really it's more of a >>84330839
maybe a 6 if we're getting really nit-picky.
>>84332335
Uhh, a defense force is a group that defends something. The "BvS defense force" would be saying BvS is a good movie.
That is not what that post is saying.
>>84331340
>still doesn't understand the Martha scene
LOL
>>84330177
Because Snyder's movies are most complex action movies ever made. Cape art-house, just like Deadpool.
>>84330177
People who enjoyed it are the same as people who enjoyed say, Star Trek Into Darkness (I saw it in Imax with five other people, one of whom is the kind of Star Trek fans who has collected editions of the DVDs); everyone thought it was an entertaining summer movie; only two people thought it was a good sci-fi movie, and only one (surprisingly, the hard core fan) thought it was a good Star Trek movie.
It's not a horrible movie, in the way that somethings are just awful and bad, full of bad acting, and painful dialogue, or poor accents, or shitty CGI, etc. But it is technically marred by poor editing, and the people defending it and even saying the editing situation or the over-stuffed stuff is cleaned-up by an additional 15 some minutes of film are simply kidding themselves and others. The technical problems are there and the movie has problems even if you apply comic book logic and suspension of disbelief because of source material.
I would agree that other movies that are more higher praised have similar or significant problems (e.g. AoU), and except for being over-stuffed and poorly edited, as well as the simplistic and lazy main plot (equivalent to the AoU plot, but worse than the plot of any of the Captain American movies, in these comparison), it's not Transformers level dreck.
But that's treating BvS purely as filmed entertainment (say thinking of the Potter movies or the LoTR/Hobbit movies as filmed entertainment). When you start talking about the movie as an ADAPTATION is where you have the accept criticism of it for the OOC writing/dialogue and motivations of the principal characters (again, this is hurt by the poorly conceived main plot and forced plot device/plot decisions that the principals were encumbered with IN ORDER to feed/force said stupid plot -- for example, in what universe - including alternate realities or Elseworlds, would any version of Bruce Wayne say something like "1% chance = absolute certainty?
>>84331416
>Killing in self defense or defense of others is not fucking murder
The people killed in trying to get to the Kryptonite is not self-defense or defense of others. It's an absurd set-up that KGBeast would find some 30-50 mercenaries for one little old lady so the death count there is just stupid absurd movie plotting/visuals, but typically manslaughter (or non-murder one) would be defined as unavoidable and there's no way anyone can certify that what Bruce did there is simple manslaughter, etc.
>>84330177
Because people want to believe that Snyder is to DC what Whedon was to Marvel. The difference, though, is that Whedon wants to make Capeshit and Snyder clearly does not, but can't say no to such a fucking huge paycheque. Can you blame him, though? I mean, if Warner Brothers approached you and said:
>"Hey, we're making a live-action adaptation of Stephanie Meyer's new book, is $50,000,000 enough to get you to sign on?"
Would you say no?
I don't blame Snyder for constantly fucking it up, I blame Warner for constantly giving him sums of money that he can't refuse.
>>84332541
>or shitty CGI,
When this will end? i know this board doesnt know shit about CGI or movies but fuck, the Superman-WW escenes were suppose to look ONIRIC, not realistic. It was Stylished stuff just like 300 you are watching legends in the making, dreams, gods, etc. It failed, since the action was to frenetic to have the same impact.
>>84332243
Well, ten years from now, there's probably still going to be MCU movies.
>>84332720
Whedon is an idiotic talentless hack whose every work is mediocre at best, so mission accomplished?
>>84332508
No, BvS was vagueness masquerading as artistic ambiguity. He tryed to be deep by mirroring mythology but it was cleer he only red the spark notes of wester lit.
The movie was terrible.
>>84331340
Martha is hard to justify.
Every last defense of BvS boils down to "Everyone is stupid but me".
Take that as you will.
Okay can someone explain something to me?
The whole "The bat is dead! Bury it!" scene.
That happens BEFORE Martha gets kidnapped, right? Am I just not remembering things correctly?
>>84330177
I'm about 90% certain they're just trolls. Even if you liked it no one could really think its a masterpiece.
I mean I get why people don't like Marvel movies, they're plain, they pretty much just dumped the heroes into the real world and are like yea here they are, and I honestly can't think of one memorable shot from a Marvel movie. They're cinematography is weak and they lack style.
Snyder seems to be all about style/cinematography like he really does some cool shots and you can see he trys to set a mood with color schemes and stuff but at the end of the day Marvel executes their plot so much better there's no contest.
I'll take a plain movie with a clear and well executed plot over a stylish mess any day.
>>84330177
its literally a meme
>>84333432
Actually it boils down to "maybe you should pay attention while watching the movie next time"
>>84330177
I loved it personally, yes, with its many flaws. I don't think people are ''too stupid to understand it'', but I just think that many people have decided not to understand it or explore the possibilities. And also some people just won't separate it from the comic books, ''but Morrison's Batman was like this'', ''Snyder's Batman did this''. These is not a comic book Batman or Superman or Lex, and once you allow yourself to watch this as an independent movie, it's pretty good and work pretty well.
>>84334410
but literally ever criticism levied at the film in this thread has absolutely nothing to do with it being an adaptation of batman or superman
The things it tries to accomplish, in the isolated context of the movie, do not work.
Superman does not work as a contrast to Batman in BvS, they're too similar.
Lex's plan doesn't make any sense and his motivation is foggy at best. To call it overly circuitous would be generous.
The weight of Batman's actions and his "fall" is diminished by the fact that we have no idea how he acted prior to the film. For all we know Batman has always been this violent and paranoid.
The "Martha" scene is just silly, and so far there hasn't been a satisfactory interpretation of it.
It's too long, it's very rushed, and it wastes time with unnecessary (and quite frankly jarring) dream sequences and vanishing plot threads.
There are also simple continuity errors that must have happened in editing, like Lois throwing away the kryptonite spear, Batman in a totally different place going "we need that spear to kill Doomsday," and Lois back in the original location diving in to get the spear without any prompting whatsoever.
I tried 3 different times to see this in theaters.
First time a thunderstorm knocked out the power.
Second time I fell asleep.
Third time a friend texted me that they were doing something more interesting so I walked out to go join them.
All 3 times I left before the first hour, and each time I got a refund (turns out movie theaters are lenient as fuck with refunds).
So while I wasn't exactly intrigued by what I saw, I don't know enough about the movie to justifiably shit on it.
>>84334410
It baffles me how anyone could think this drivel is anything more than paper thin. You seriously think people decided not to understand it? There's nothing to understand. Its a crap movie with a bunch of subplots set up for future movies and characters are given multiple motivations, just making for a big clusterfuck.
>>84334061
You just proved my point.
Also paying attention doesn't actually matter given headcanon and people deliberately getting sequences of events wrong in order to defend shit writing. Like how >>84331652 seems to think that the whole "If I wanted to kill you I totally could" dick waving that Clark does happens after his mom gets kidnapped.
>>84331940
Last movie he was sad/grump because he didn't understand his place in the universe. This movie he's sad and grumpy because people treat him weird. Next movie he'll be sad and grumpy for some other reason. The subplots exist to justify the characterization, when in a well written story the characterization comes first and the plot grows from it.
>>84334410
Possibility is less than nothing in the face of poor execution and performance.
Also I think it's ridiculously ironic that you guys keep trying to play the "the movie should be judged on its own merits" card when the thread *starts* with
>>84330654
>>84330669
>>84330682
>>84330699
>>84330711
>>84330720
six posts of "look how great it is because of all the references to stuff outside of it!"
>>84330177
Because the movie is not nearly as bad as the internet likes to make it out to be, so some people pretend it's a Masterpiece to piss off the haters. People treat it like it's catwoman bad or some thing when really it's more like Iron man 2 bad, or should I say mediocre to decent.
>>84334410
>decided not to understand it
I've decided not to understand this post.Seriously though, what the fuck does that even mean? How and why would a person decide not to understand a movie?
>>84334653
Was it the same theater in all those times? I wouldn't have let you in the third time. Fool me twice and all that.
>>84334793
Fuck you it's not even decent, and lex was the worst part.
>>84334838
>He didn't like based Lex
>>84334712
You just proved my point lol
It's not "headcanon" if it's in the movie. "If I wanted it you'd be dead already" DOES happen during the fight after Lex caught Ma Kent. BvS naysayers always lie or can't understand basic plot points, then when they're caught just scream "it doesn't count!"
>>84334822
Some stoned teenager getting paid minimum wage is going to recognize me out of the 10 fucktillion faces they see everyday and stop me because I asked for a refund?
Yea, nah.
>>84330177
>With the way some people talk about it, you would think it was a work of art and the Citizen Kane of superhero films.
We're just meming. Some of you Marvel fags get way too serious about this shit.
>>84334804
I mean, that they won't give it a chance. Everything's just shit and stupid and Snyder's a hack, and if someone writes a comment and tries to sort out different possibilities and meanings, people just jump in and shit on the anons left and right. ''Defending'' the movie or a particular scene is considered as a /co/ version of ''mansplaining'' and is immediately disregarded.
>>84334838
It was beyond decent. A great masterpiece. Lex was also done well.
>>84334962
Totally a masterpiece, just like saw 3D
I feel that this movie is life Final Crisis. Even the people that liked the movie aren't 100% sure about what happened.
>>84334923
So wait when did Bruce get the Kryptonite (which happens after his first face to face with Clark and sets up their mutual antagonism) in relation to Martha getting kidnapped? After? That makes no sense.
>>84335422
Are you saying BvS is confusing? What?
>>84335554
Just look at this thread. I've seen countless threads like this.
People will call the movie names and question about things that happen, then other people will defend the movie and try to give their understanding of the events to answer the questions, but these threads go nowhere. The points made just get muddled.
It was like this when Final Crisis was released.
>>84330177
i unironically think Snyder is the new Kubrick
>>84335660
What about Refn? von Trier? Korine? Roy Andersson? Lanthimos? Kaufman? Garland? Jonze? Aronofsky? Inarritu? Fincher?
Know your film, boy.
>>84335425
Batmobile chase scene
Superman confronts Batman for the first time
Court bombing
Batman brute forces his way through Lex Corp. and steals the Kryptonite
Superman vs. Batman
"Stay down. If I wanted it, you'd be dead already."
I mean you could have just watched the movie instead. Too hard for you?
Why people say that Lex had no motivation and that his plans made no sense?
MOTIVATION:
Lex throughout the movie want to feel in control and in power, something that is impossible with Superman.
Lex also believe that people will power aren't innocent because power can't be innocent. He himself isn't, because to get where he is now, he did nasty shit. It is implied that his father contributed to his moral degeneration.
So Lex believe that Superman is a fraud and want to overpower him.
PLANS:
Lex caught Superman in a trap placing him in a political crisis, so the committee on Superman in the congress could finally have some influence. The plan was to use the committee's influence to get legal access to everything kryptonian related, ship the discovered kryptonite rock and create an anti meta-human think-thank. This way Lex would have the means to kill Superman and later deal with the other metas.
The plan started to go bad when the female senator opposed the import of the kryptonite rock, seeing right through him that he intended to kill Superman. Lex fearing that the female senator would pose more problems used the wheelchair dude to further damage Superman's reputation and clean his hands.
It was then that Lex came with PLAN B: pit Batman and Superman against each other. Lex wanted to bring Batman to his side, but after Batman had stolen the illegally imported kryptonite rock, Lex decided to force Superman's hands and force him to kill Batman in order to save Martha, thus showing the world what a fraud Superman was. Lex had no faith in Batman. That's why he created Doomsday. Lex really thought that he'd be able to control Doomsday and kill Superman with it, since he didn't had the kryptonite rock anymore.
That was it. Nothing about any of this was really confusing or difficult to understand.
>>84330177
>Batman v Superman is some kind of underappreciated masterpiece that critics and moviegoers are too stupid to understand
because its better than deadpool/civil war/xmen
>>84335887
Oh, I used the wrong line. I was thinking of "The Bat is dead, bury it".
>>84331340
Bruce is obsessed with his parents deaths which is why having a girlfriend or saving people doesn't register with him.
>>84335894
What's the point of the Batman Plan B if Doomsday would be an unstoppable killing machine?
Are you going to lord being right over the two other people that managed to avoid getting splattered by it?
>>84336193
Because Lex probably wanted to kill Batman, too, and manly because he wanted to expose Superman as a fraud.
>>84335833
overrated hipster trash.
>>84336245
>Fincher
>Inarritu
>Kaufman
>Jonze
>Aronofsky
>Garland
>hipster
The rest I can understand. But what? Really?
>>84334793
I wish it was only Iron Man 2 level bad.
>>84336230
>Because Lex probably wanted to kill Batman, too,
Why?
>>84336371
Civil War retroactively makes Iron Man 2 a better movie.
>>84332803
>the CGI was shit ON PURPOSE
Link me the interview where Snyder spouted that.
>>84336230
That's not what I meant. I meant, if Doomsday is strong enough to kill Supes and Supes killed Batman, what's going to stop Doomsday from destroying everything?
>>84336442
Batman kept investigating him and stole his shit.
NOW... this wasn't shown in the movie per see, but I MYSELF THINK that Lex was thinking of pinning everything on Bruce Wayne. The illegal import of the kryptonite, the capitol bombing through his ex-employee and so on.
>>84336504
Oh, i said in the previous post. Lex actually thought that he'd be able to control Doomsday.
You can see that he was face to face with Doomsday feeling all smug about his creation and was genuinely surprised when Doomsday went to punch his sorry ass.
I like it. I don't love it. I don't hate it.
Opinion.
>>84336510
...I thought Lex was literally handing that shit to Batman to egg him on. Because Batman sucks at investigating in this. He has to.
>>84336502
Come on man do you really think "skulls are Zack cool" Snyder has ever used a word like "oniric" in his life?
>>84336573
What made him think that when the Kryptonians said such things were abominations? Why would he have any reason to believe that Doomsday was not going to be bad news when he himself said power is bad?
>>84336468
And AoU. Civil War makes AoU the most important movie ever now
>>84336698
I don't think so, but like i said, this is my personal opinion.
People think that Lex was manipulating Batman for the last two years, because of the dialog where Lex said that Batman's hate was growing for two years, but i actually think that Lex only decided to use Batman after the female senator fucked him over and Batman kept investigating him.
>>84336746
I don't know. The movie didn't really explored Doomsday that well. You see Lex learning about the Scout Ship and other planets very earlier in the movie and then later in the end we see Lex messing with Zod, despite the machine asking him not to. So either Lex thought he would be able to control it because of what he learned previously, which isn't shown to the audience, or Lex was so smug that he thought he just would.
Here i'm going to add my personal opinion: in the movie Lex gave away that he kinda was his father's abomination, in a way, and i think that Lex romanticized that idea a bit when it came to Doomsday, like as if Doomsday would be like him and they'd have a connection. But this is just my interpretation, so take it with a grain of salt.
>>84330237
Yeah I feel exactly the same. It has some of the best and maybe the worst stuff in recent capeshit.
>>84336049
I have a funny feeling it isn't just a coincidence that you can only use quotes that were in the trailers.
>>84336846
I agree with you mostly. Saying that Batman's hatred was growing for 2 years doesn't mean he was planning it for that whole time. I mean, they didn't even find the big kryptonite until recently.
>>84336468
>>84336468
No it fucking doesn't. Making something good spin out of a bad movie doesn't stop it from being a drag to sit through.
>>84338399
The new perspective given on the whole daddy issues thing makes me appreciate it more.
The big problem I don't see a lot of people talking about, is how the movie is way, WAY too pre-occupied with GRAVITAS. Literally every single word that comes out of every single character's mouths is BIG and IMPORTANT, to the point of self-parody. It's just jarring and unnatural and really, REALLY poorly written.
Like how every single line of dialogue between Superman/Clark and LITERALLY ANYONE is about how he doesn't fit, and he's unnatural, and how he'll never find his place in the world.
Like the scene where Clark is pitching an article about Batman to Perry, and Perry goes "It's not 1938 anymore. Apples aren't a dime anymore!" What? How is that relevant? What the fuck are you trying to say?
I mean, I KNOW what he's trying to say. He's saying the same thing literally EVERY character is saying to Clark; "Your ideals and goals don't fit in this world", but in that conversation in that moment in time, between one person and another, it's horribly stilted and almost completely nonsensical. It's ALL subtext, zero context.
Or the scene with John Stewart trying to joke about whether or not Superman is American (which is also really badly shot and edited by itself, but that's beside the point). That scene goes on for a full TWO MINUTES, and serves NO purpose to the plot whatsoever.
>>84330669
>>84330682
>>84330699
>>84330711
>>84330720
DUDE SYMBOLISM LMAO
I just saw Deadpool yesterday. Could someone enlighten me about why that's considered a good movie, and Batman v Superman is considered trash?. I felt it was the opposite.
Maybe i'm just a proud DCuck.
>>84339771
>but in that conversation in that moment in time, between one person and another, it's horribly stilted and almost completely nonsensical. It's ALL subtext, zero context.
Seriously? He was saying that newspapers don't care about morals anymore, just making money. You're trying too hard to find reasons to not like the movie.
>>84334943
I gave it a chance, man. I really, REALLY wanted to like it, but no amount of mental gymnastics allowed me to justify its flaws to myself.
I did end up liking several things about it, though. Hell, I've watched the ultimate cut like 3 times.
>>84341320
It's STILL stilted as fuck. Why did he choose that year?
Because that's the year Action Comics #1 was published. That's it. And it's STILL about how Superman doesn't fit in the modern world in a modern setting blah blah blah. It's literally the exact same message in every single line of dialgue directly addressing or indirectly referring to Superman. And there are HUNDREDS of these lines.
>>84341461
Yeah it's just a nice little reference to make you chuckle, while at the same time giving an argument. I thought it was funny, why can't you?
>>84330237
I back this up. For me the strengths outweighs the cons and while I don't think it's a masterpiece some of the criticism it gets is due to people not paying attention.
>>84341461
>And there are HUNDREDS of these lines.
It has been pointed out to me that people talk to Superman like he's the IDEA of Superman rather than the literal character they've established on film.
>>84341693
>I don't think it's a masterpiece some of the criticism it gets is due to people not paying attention.
I'm gonna be honest with you, I was completely baffled as to who was aware of whose secret identity at certain parts of the movie.
Luthor seems to know both Superman and Batman's from the start, and at some point Batman learns Superman's.
Also I'm still not sure who was mailing those fucking letters or why.
so why was lex able to just waltz in and work with kryptonian tech with ease
did luthor actually think doomsday wouldn't fucking kill him
if doomsday killed supes and wondy and bats what the fuck was lex gonna do to stop him from dragging his giant monster balls all over his face
BIBLICAL
REFERENCES
>>84330711
>>84330699
Those are the only ones that are spot on.
>>84330699
Bruce parents are supposed to be the ones whose bodies lie in the public square.
>>84330669
This is only pottery 101.
>>84341753
Lex was mailing the letters pretending to be Wallace Keefe. You can tell when he brags to Superman about it.
Now what I really want to know is who the great hero in Wayne Enterprises was who kept them from Bruce's eyes. If his plan worked, Lex would have been wrecked. Bruce's employees love him so much that they would keep those things from him.
>>84330177
(only seem that ultimate edition few days ago)
Snyder is a fucking hack and all his movies are braindead stupid and depending on luck it will be stupid fun or retarded dreck
However that movie is surprisingly alright
Some of the visuals are nifty -- gun and pearls
Elseworlds/Flashpoint/dream like sequences make for a pace changer where you are completely lost what is even happening
Another surprise was that Superman was basically left as canon as possible, but it was Batman who turned into serial killer maniac. I'd be pretty pissed if i gave a shit about batman's code or batman in general.
IT'S CAPEKINO I AIN'T GOTTA EXPLAIN SHIT
>>84341753
>>84341859
I don't know why, but the concept of Lex Luthor sending mean letters to Bruce is one of the funniest plot-lines of the year, which is compounded by the fact that Bruce wasn't even reading them.
>Mercy, I wrote another one of my "Bruce Wayne is a faggot" letters.
>Please mail it for me
>Man, I sure hope Bruce is reading these, or this would be a waste of time
>Better make sure to send two next month, just to be sure
>>84341898
>Some of the visuals are nifty -- gun and pearls
Taken from the Dark Knight Returns, not Snyder's imagination.
>>84341898
>Superman was basically left as canon as possible,
Snyder's Superman only resembles the comic book Superman in a few fleeting moments.
The morose, conflicted Superman is Goyer and Snyder's interpretation.
>>84342009
i never said Snyder was not a creatively bankrupt thief
i mean even when given Watchmen -- an endless source of good art to adapt to a screen, just pick and choose, he still managed to fuck it up more often than not
those dreams where Bruce is wandering in a field are also Gladiator-like
>>84341859
>Lex was mailing the letters pretending to be Wallace Keefe. You can tell when he brags to Superman about it.
I forgot that at some point I guess. Was this in the egg timer speech?
>Now what I really want to know is who the great hero in Wayne Enterprises was who kept them from Bruce's eyes. If his plan worked, Lex would have been wrecked. Bruce's employees love him so much that they would keep those things from him.
It's such a weird narrative deadend because it's something that Bruce isn't even aware of for much of the movie.
>>84341983
Yeah it is pretty funny. Reminds me of the silver age shenanigans he would do.
>>84342147
More likely than not, it was just a mistake, but I like thinking that someone saw the notes and tried to stop Bruce from seeing them.
During Lex's speech to Superman about his fight with Batman, he mentions "little red notes, big bang, you let your family die!" as what pushed Batman over.
Why does clark say Martha instead of mom ?
>>84342147
>>84342227
It's even weirder when you realize Lex is almost entirely dead weight.
Literally the only thing of value he adds to the script is the creation of Doomsday. That's literally it.
Everything else he ever did in that movie was either something that was going to happen anyway, like goading Batman into fighting Superman, or complete narrative dead ends, like the whole politician explosion subplot, or the letters.
You could have removed him from the plot entirely and just made Doomsday another alien, and the story would've lost absolutely nothing worthwhile.
>>84342344
He's a big Tom Waits fan.
Completely serious:
Theatrical Cut: 6/10
Ultimate Edition: 7/10
