Good evening owls of /co/,
This is 100% what SHIELD needs
>>84312386
That fucking face holy shit
I found the first couple issues of Punisher 2099 in a longbox at a LCS today. It was surreal.
>>84312386
so, best book today/best internet shitshow, go
>>84312411
Flintstones was great
>>84312411
Flintstones was extremely good. The only internet shitshow I really saw for comics was this cape books will die thing, which seemed fair enough.
>>84312411
Literally the only not-good DC book today was JL.
I'm shocked at how much I enjoyed Green Lanterns.
>>84312386
>Bendis going to be on GOTG after CW2
>except they're going to be on earth
>Bendis putting his daughter as Iron Man
>the whitest white man ever writing about a black teen girl
>it's not even Rhodey's niece
When will he stop selling?
>>84312438
Simon is truly best boy
>>84312419
>>84312432
isn't that just a surprise, how enjoyable that book is? I saw a LOT of pros impressed.
>>84312438
I saw the 100% husbando preview page
>>84312411
Honestly every DC book except for JL Rebirth was at least alright
GLs was particularly enjoyable and if there were less narration, I'd call the book good.
And Batman is starting to get good. Also Bruce is a weeb.
>>84312441
I wish more people were mad about Bendis still being the writer and stopped bitching about her being black and a girl.
>>84312475
I wasn't totally surprised I guess since Russell won me over with Prez, but I'm glad it was good
>>84312386
>SHIELD 2099
So, they're going to be, somehow, even worse than modern SHIELD, which has been illegally abducting mutants and failing to deal with Godzilla since the Seventies.
What is worse ?
Cosmic side of marvel or mutant side of marvel ?
We are talking about comics people no the movies.
>>84312475
>isn't that just a surprise, how enjoyable that book is?
I had decent expectations, but it was REALLY good. I think it showed a lot of skill in writing - the book is layered in a lot of ways, and it all works together.
>>84312441
>the whitest white man ever writing about a black teen girl
Even if Bendis is a hack, him being white does not mean he can't write a non-white, non-male character.
>>84312489
the diversity side of twitter is very annoyed at Bendis writing it since he's an old white guy and even though marvel's been doing all this diverse stuff, 75% of it has been written and/or drawn by white guys, especially the legacy characters
>>84309967 fuck yeah
>>84312526
>>84312539
People are becoming less and less tolerant of this kind of thing.
>>84312411
End of Batman made it #1. Lost my damn mind.
GL continues to be great and super fun
Green Arrow is solid great art.
Scarlet Witch went into continuity and brought up all her issues that no one has dealt with
Flintstones was as great as everyone hoped. and dark!!! which I loved
riri stuff is fun because /co/ is being racist/stupid/bendis hate about it and everyone else online is the other end of "another white dude writing about a black kid" i'm pro toys in the box and also wish marvel had more diverse creators
>>84312411
People, for once, didn't race-bait in the SamCap book. Despite it being about racial profiling. Personally I think it was a lot better than the last one.
Agreeing with the people who said Flintstones was DC's best book today. I read it here on /co/ after pulling my haul from the LCS and would've immediately gone back to get it if it weren't for the fact my LCS is an hour's drive away.
>>84312557
>That’s the emotional headlock I’ve placed Rose in. I see her as a deeply conflicted very young person on the cusp of adulthood who is still trying to figure herself out. She ends up following Batman around in issue #5 (and driving the Batmobile!) lost in a kind of awe at this iconic hero and father figure of her mentor, Nightwing.
>Comedic, over-the-top violence doesn’t crack me up at all. I think it’s terrible. Violence is awful. Killing is terrible and has real consequences. This book is about those consequences.
...I'm listening.
>>84312561
>End of Batman made it #1. Lost my damn mind.
That's totally Psycho Pirate isn't it. Based King.
>>84312539
Marvel's problem is that they don't want to give black creators anything other than black books in part because of this idiocy.
>>84312386
OH GOD HE'S SQUINTED SO HARD HIS EYES TURNED INTO A PERMANENT FACIAL CREASE!
>>84312539
yeah, twitter is mad. a tweet that honestly, isn't wrong:
twitter.com/SonofBaldwin/status/750744673812090881
>>84312566
I hope Spencer writes a decent USAgent
>>84312622
Punisher being the head of SHIELD is both awesome and terrifying.
>>84312622
this is the biggest, meanest Jake yet, isn't it
>>84312610
look at the pic on the tweet here >>84312610
This is an example where somebody who is black and has been a aprt of it SHOULD be writing it and they're experiences. Not some white dude who's only observed it.
>>84312674
He's like the size of a goddamn Space Marine.
>>84312526
>>84312610
Ideally you have enough minority characters and creators that there's a less awkward distribution (ie all kinds of creators doing all kinds of characters).
>>84312694
whoops meant >>84312622
>>84312694
That's some rando with a pseudonym, Marvel wants experienced writers who can prove they can write a monthly.
>>84312674
So. That Bendis interview was pretty depressing. Oh yeah, Guardians on Earth. He wanted Angela back ASAP. Etc.
The other interesting discussion I saw today was:
twitter.com/Wheeler/status/750724899560427526
wherein the question of 'co-writing' is raised and many practicalities responded
>>84312752
And it was really clear that he thinks creating Jessica Jones and Miles means that he's one of the good ones and gets a free pass
>>84312752
I think improving talent scouting is the real answer.
>>84312750
Yeah I know, that'sone reason why people are annoyed. They'd rather give it to a person who is guaranteed to sell and has experience writing instead of bringing on another black writer who also wants to write but can't for whatever reason.
It's one of those "need experience to get a job, but can't get experience without having a job" kind of things they're also complaining about. Pretty valid imo
>>84312752
>We've seen this sort of mentorship in comics time and again. It's one of the clearest ways for writers to break in to Fortress Team Comics.
Just on this part Lieber mentioned today like 3/4th of the intern/mentorship applications he sees for comics people now are for women. Way, way up from his earlier days.
>>84312823
Is anyone guaranteed to sell anymore? If you stick with giving books to Bendis and Slott things will implode eventually.
>>84312823
and it's not like they haven't been poaching people who hadn't written comics before (correct me if I'm wrong) with Wendig and Cain and Coates
What I am also not down with, though, is the mockery of anyone who wants to read about Tony Stark and is a little worried about his status. People have the right to want to read about the characters they're attached to, and it's been a rough decade or so for Tony fans, many of whom are women.
>>84312823
Have any published black writers or screenwriters expressed interest in writing this particular comic? There's no barrier to entry in writing prose.
>>84312870
Yes?
Bendis, Hickman, Johns, now Snyder, etc.
DC is hoping to do the same thing with King.
>>84312812
>he's one of the good ones
Ha. There are no "good ones" in this escalating culture war bullshit.
>>84312886
look at that pimpcape
>>84312886
hint hint
twitter.com/sterlinggates/status/750846452381790209
>>84312936
or, I should say, he seems to think that just because he created Jessica Jones that there's nothing wrong with that really gross Hellcat discussion in Avengers Prime, or any number of other things
>>84312964
>tfw no multiverse teamup book
>>84312752
>twitter.com/Wheeler/status/750724899560427526
>If you're a comic writer, take on a minority to use as a shield against criticism based on your white maleness.
>>84312886
oh dear, some spoilers for my Doom 2099 readthrough. i'm not even mad, though, because President Doom just might be what this future needs.
>>84312985
If Wheeler didn't exist, he'd have to be invented.
>>84312886
>What I am also not down with, though, is the mockery of anyone who wants to read about Tony Stark and is a little worried about his status
Why would the people calling for ethnic cleansing all the white people out of comics start feeling bad with Tony Stark?
>>84312985
The thing that no one says but is also the case is that co-writing has to be a different animal than the collaboration of artist and writer. Two writers show up most commonly when it's a known writing team who works together a lot. Seeley alludes there to working with King being a lot of work, even though it brought both of them returns. Raise your hand if you hated mandatory group work.
>>84312752
yeah i don't think writing comics works that way. and anyway pretty sure that's an editor's job.
i'm having a lot of thoughts about this as like how this could be discouraging or something to new creators who are just cis white people but i have no idea how to make it not just sound like whiny garbage.
>>84312886
It's been a bad day for men named Tony.
>>84313061
The answer to that is just deal w/ it because it's been discouraging to a lot of other people already. But Wheeler is making it sound like a bit of a junior partner deal - the ask is to either give up ownership of your own project, or condescend to someone else to get their name on it. Tough ask.
>>84312964
>or, I should say, he seems to think that just because he created Jessica Jones that there's nothing wrong with that really gross Hellcat discussion in Avengers Prime, or any number of other things
Oh, yeah, no, I was just pointing out that even if he was genuinely careful and respectful in his writing, he'd still be The Enemy to some people.
Jessica Jones is a terrible 'feminist' post to stand on anyway, because just about nothing good happens to anyone in that book.
>>84313063
what else?
>>84313092
and the money thing on WFH is considerable. There are relatively few 'full-time' pros w/o other supportive day jobs (writers), and what Wheeler seems to miss is that if you co-write, you're giving up a portion of the income that lets you be a full-time pro.
>>84313111
I really dislike Bendis' writing and yet I wouldn't hold some of the things against him as sins that are being trotted out now
>>84313092
yeah. i think some people also make it seem very competitive when it's like, comics are super easy to make and get into, the barrier of entry is so low.
The terrible thing is Bendis finally is attacked over diversity issues and not the fact his books have been shit and lazy for so fucking long.
>>84312411
Flintstones was amazingI hate how bitter I am about GLs
>>84313154
That's like a strong 'it depends' right? Anyone can make a comic, but writing for the Big Two like a lot of people want to is very competitive. And making a living off comics is hard.
>>84312411
Watching Bendis' and Marvel's latest move get absolutely fucking roasted by all the people with the right qualifications.
Standing out from the crowd, I didn't care for Flintstones. Don't get me wrong, it's well made, but... the choices it makes are just, nah. Nah.
Also that book, like the rest of the HB line, is fucking doomed and I don't know why DC thinks it isn't.
>>84313052
>Sit on the corners of desks drinking coffee and discussing grav-ball all day
So far from what we've seen in Punisher, this does seem to be like 99.99% of what the Public Eye does get payed to do.
>>84313142
>what else?
Chilcot.
>>84313161
I did see one person call his writing "literary sameface", which really is a good way to describe it.
Reuses plots a lot, can't do different character voices well, Bendispeak, etc
>>84313199
They're future mall cops with too many guns.
>>84312886
>What I am also not down with, though, is the mockery of anyone who wants to read about Tony Stark and is a little worried about his status. People have the right to want to read about the characters they're attached to, and it's been a rough decade or so for Tony fans, many of whom are women.
This is a valid concern
plus why on earth did they kill Rhodey if Riri is meant to replace Tony??? why didn't Thanos just kill Tony and somebody else could have gotten a case of the retards to fight with Carol
>>84313142
>>84313196
I really dig the forays into existential despair
also, the Ayn Rand joke on the cover
>>84313196
>the choices it makes are just, nah. Nah.
What didn't you like? Not trying to fight about it, just curious.
>>84313052
The split dollars comment stuck out to me in that chain. IIRC Grayson was an accident too, like they put two writers on the book without realizing it. Kind of shitty to think you'll get paid one thing and then have to adjust.
>>84313142
Doom, you are bad at secret identities. Not everyone is RICHARDS!
>what else?
Tony Blair got to take ALL the credit for Britain in Iraq.
>>84312411
>best internet shitshow
It's more of a /v/ thing, but the whole CS: GO lotto shit is really interesting and really scummy
>>84313240
I genuinely think you could unravel that Flintstones issue for hours. I feel like a crazy person for saying it, but.
>>84313187
yeah, i guess i feel like it's hard to argue the moral position when the goal is to sell out to Big 2.
and the argument about big 2 capes dominating the industry is a separate one which I think you could take a stance of bendis helping cause of his creator owned (even tho it's still just crime comics)
>>84313235
He probably killed Rhodey because he thought he was gonna die in the Civil War movie.
>>84313111
>Jessica Jones is a terrible 'feminist' post to stand on anyway, because just about nothing good happens to anyone in that book.
>book about a Jewish detective girl kvetching with her girlfriends
>being a horrible detective
>she has a rape backstory
>she hooks up with a black guy
>there is an entire page of her getting buttfucked
Alias is really overrated and dumb in a lot of ways.
>>84313161
at this point it's "enemy of my enemy" territory, and maybe even some people will actually read it because of the black girl and then criticize him for putting out shit
>>84313161
Top be entirely fair, how many of the people bitching him out are MCU recruits who weren't around when he first started ruining the Marvel Universe back in Disassembled?
>>84313261
If I remember right, he almost does the same thing to Miggy.
Also saying bring on a co-writer ignores the other co writer, the artist
>>84313268
i wish i knew where to get good /v/ideo games news btwn gmrgte and how much is like memetic i only get glimpses. and like hell i'm digging though /v/
>>84313261
Ohhhhhh.
>>84313298
I recognize some pretty long-time comics readers in there
>>84312915
The question you really wanna ask is if Marvel even considered asking anybody but Bendis to take this direction. And of course they didn't.
Comics travels in a tight, small circle, and rarely ventures out of it. A Marvel editor, Avengers line, had to actually ask for people to give her a bunch of names of black women writing and making comics out there.
They're a pretty insulated bunch, and they don't tend to hunt for talent outside their general circle. Occasionally, they'll pull a "you were successful elsewhere, write this book for us" (Hudlin, Heinberg, Coates), but that you have to be that successful elsewhere to be CONSIDERED...
Like, again. Coates is one of the best known names in writing about race in America today.
How good do you have to be as a marginalized creator to be given a shot?
You can't blind pitch to Marvel. Those days are over. Dwayne McDuffie was one of the last in on that boat. They seek you out, not the other way around, unless you're an artist. That's a whole different deal.
>>84313275
I think some of the chat about the Big Two dying back today is accurate, but IDK about the timescale. A lot if probably depends on how long their movies keep making bank.
>>84312622
Haven't read it but I'm under the impression he has in the past, and U.S.Agent has the best bit in the issue.
>>84313278
Has Marvel Synergy ever done anything good?
At least DC synergy made Mr Freeze good for the first time ever.
>>84312812
I wish people brought up Victoria Hand more often, or what he did with Karla.
>>84313241
Beyond just "Mad Men Flintstones isn't for me", I think some of the choices they've made with their story allegories for real life struggles and history and groups are on that border between 'ignorant' and 'blatantly offensive'.
>>84312559
Well it's asinine. Bendis ain't blind either, but nobody bitched when he was writing Daredevil.
>>84313281
Don't forget that her pre-rape backstory has her Forrest Gumping herself into being everybody's best friend until she disappears for two years for some raisin.
>>84313324
The other route in as a writer is small-press/indie work, but that means you have to pay your artist, which is a challenge for getting early work made. It means you want to try for impressive short stories, I think.
People who have made it like Millar and BKV can do all creator-owned and get great artists because they're sitting on the nest egg that they can outlay to make the work that's going to pull it in.
>>84313381
Hand is just straight up "dude". I can't find the bit I remember that he said he killed her so no one else could use her, and I've been trying for a while, so I could be misremembering.
>>84313386
I would like to read more of your opinions, so if you have them written up or feel like writing them up let me know.
I'm not reading specific allegory too much into it because it is non-historical. But I can get where you're coming from, I think.
>>84313368
X-23 maybe?
>>84313413
fuck yeah, let's all be punishers
>>84313413
and Millar's been around since the 80s
>>84313381
>>84313413
Bendis' treatment of some of his/the women characters has this strange aspect. It's like a weird little venom he's got bottled up.
>>84312886
>Dr. Doom
>President
Shenanigans unless we've annexed or been annexed by Latveria.
>>84313278
He killed Rhodey exactly for that reason.
So BENDIS! is ruining Iron-man and guardians of the galaxy.
When is he going to ruin inhumans and captain marvel ?
>>84313368
MCU sinergy, i cant think of any.
pre-MCU sinergy, the x-men tv show made Jubilee popular and gave us generation X.
Cerebro being a room.
Dr octopus being cool
>>84313386
We don't know that the neantherthals are actually idiots. Gravel just says they are and they seem to see through his scheme pretty easily.
>>84313413
Or like Gillen or Waid, "Image is EZ and so profitable guys"
>>84313324
David Brothers and Geoffrey Thorne aren't exactly huge names, but they established themselves and got hired as Designated Black-Guys-Writing-Black-Guys.
>>84313495
>Waid
Uh, Kirkman. No idea where that came from.
>>84313463
Right, some of it is just so nasty, and it's not nasty in a way that lines up with interesting or established characterization on the part of the men who do those things.
>>84313495
I keep seeing this one dude completely misunderstand the Image model or at least seem like he does and it's driving me nuts
>>84313495
Gillen should know better because Phonogram was known, but WicDiv is 1000% selling what it is because of the Kid Loki/YA fans.
>>84313487
>inhumans
Whenever the movie happens, so never
>captain marvel
Probably when they find a more house style female artist who can draw a considerable pace. Also near the movie.
>>84313474
That's pretty much what happened. Doom Annexes the US, appoints himself President, declared it 2099 AD- ANNO DOOM.
He also makes Punisher and Ghost Rider into the duly appointed steely hands of the Doomlaw.
>>84313423
1. I don't think a Flintstones book is the best tack to come in with an angle on America's disgusting history in its treatment of natives, for one example. Go back and reread that stuff, and tell me that bit with them talking about the war isn't "Hey remember when we came in and killed all these natives for their land? Ouch."
2. I think the groups, in pre-historic times, they've chosen to symbolize these struggles, is also a bad move.
Like, say you decided "I'm going to do a Flintstones thing about the civil rights movement."
And the people you chose to represent the civil rights movement were the less evolved human species before Bedrock folks.
That doesn't look great, does it?
>>84313413
A ton are in webcomics, and many of them have said as much today, and it's a field Marvel doesn't know much about. They've got Hastings and North, but they don't have someone with their ear to the ground, searching out fresh talent there. They're kind of oblivious, and a bit willfully so. You'd think they could hire someone just to do this kind of stuff, instead of tasking already busy editors.
We brought up all the classic women Avengers Bendis did fucked up shit to right? Tigra and the Hood, Scarlet Witch, Wanda causing Scarlet Witch to go mad, She Hulk killing Vision, I guess he pushed Captain Marvel and Spider Woman?
>>84313501
It seems like Brothers and Khouri have both gotten into their positions the same way, prove you can write well and consistently about comics and network well.
>>84313281
>Alias is really overrated and dumb in a lot of ways.
Welp, I guess I'm adding Alias to my storytime.
>>84312991
Are you enjoying it? Ellis era is awesome
>>84313545
>I keep seeing this one dude completely misunderstand the Image model or at least seem like he does and it's driving me nuts
Is he one of those "image can have a bunch of books at 10k, why can't dc or marvel" kind of people?
>>84313569
You can trace almost all of his beef with specific Avengers women back to John Byrne's time on West Coast Avengers.
Which is both funny, and sad.
>>84313413
>Hand is just straight up "dude". I can't find the bit I remember that he said he killed her so no one else could use her, and I've been trying for a while, so I could be misremembering.
http://brianmichaelbendis.tumblr.com/post/66728777080/why-did-you-kill-victoria-hand
>>84313579
Please no.
I would rather Ravage 2099, and that is Stan Lee jerking off on a furry.
>>84313545
Gillen seems to kind of get how WicDiv is because he boosted his name with X-Men and Iron Man and YA.
>>84313561
I think there are a bunch of web comic people in the Avengers Annual that's Kamala's fanfic which could be promising.
>>84313490
Yeah, the Neanderthals seemed to be mostly naive, not stupid.
>>84313620
Phonogram and Wicked and Divine are the most indulgent pieces of hipsterism I have ever read.
And Gillen is pretty old now.
>>84313590
A bit of that, a lot of "Why isn't Vertigo like the Image stuff I like", and this "Why hasn't Image poached Mike del Mundo for a book" thing that just made me want to respond IMAGE ONLY TAKES BOOKS THAT ALREADY EXIST, DUMBASS
>>84313612
oh bless you, anon
>>84313490
For me, it's not "whether neanderthals are idiots or not", it's "this is a bad thing to pick to represent minority groups".
>>84313650
>Phonogram and Wicked and Divine are the most indulgent pieces of hipsterism I have ever read.
I mean I don't think even the creative team would disagree. I was talking about sales.
>>84313614
Too late, and I even added The Pulse.
also i think bendis' iron man has been decent but currently crippled by deadato. & i really like caselli
>>84313651
I know he's being flippant there, but still, killing the lesbian at the end of your run is a really bad look for someone who wants to be as woke as he does.
>>84313569
>We brought up all the classic women Avengers Bendis did fucked up shit to right? Tigra and the Hood, Scarlet Witch, Wanda causing Scarlet Witch to go mad, She Hulk killing Vision, I guess he pushed Captain Marvel and Spider Woman?
He killed Janet, and then gave Ultron her body.
Was he still writing Daredevil for the whole "Matt gets married then his wife is driven insane?" story?
>>84313713
>deadato
heh
I hate how he's gonna be on a flagship book.
>>84313580
heck yeah, though as i was reading it, i kept picturing Tyger Wylde with George Takei's voice for some reason. made it even more enjoyable.
>>84313612
Its not like she had an arc that could be ruined. That was the excuse Gillen gave for killing Kid Loki, he didn't want a lesser writer to retcon that he was evil.
>>84313733
No, Brubaker had her driven insane. But Bendis DID marry them.
>>84313561
Thanks for responding. For my own 2c, There's some pretty on-the-nose colonial stuff but I don't think the homo erectus pares down to just the civil rights movement, or racism or the treatment of natives (and I don't know that it's purely American). There's more of a focus on profit - consumerism - as an evil and as an unfulfilling thing to me. I think you get that with the homo erectus workers and with the background of Fred and Wilma. The purity/integrity of a life not driven by money - comes through in the art stuff as well.
I actually find the book hard to approach because I think it's really dense, in a meta respect but also in the different levels it's working on and the number of topics it's broaching. The whole thing also has a blackly comedic line on it that makes the blunter stuff more palatable, to me anyway.
>>84313733
pretty sure that was Bru.
>>84313735
right.
>>84313651
That "YOU!" is so hand lettered.
>>84313675
Why? It's actually pretty clever since it's tying actual science to cheesy Flintstones history in unique way. And it's as much a commentary on capitalism as it is on Civil Rights, what with the smug early homo sapiens thinking they are much more superior to the Neanderthals and then cutting to the museum.
>>84313733
>He killed Janet
I remember Gail Simone congratulating him for that, complete with "womenwhodeserverefrigeration" (or something) hashtag.
I thought she was being sarcastic, but no, she apparently just really fucking hates that bitch Wasp.
>>84313675
You're aware the neanderthals went extinct?
>>84313718
I noticed he gave Evan Narcisse a llllot more (though kinda condescending) patient responses to his crit about Rhodey than he ever did to anyone going "what the fuck" about Victoria or "Bobby can be gay but this was written pretty bad and insensitive as hell" for his X-Men.
He very much believes he's already the wokest. Not that he's alone there, comics is rife with those kinds of guys. I was honestly astonished when the Batgirl team apologized for the handling of Dagger Type instead of going "eh, we know better than you transwhatsmos"
>>84313561
>A ton are in webcomics, and many of them have said as much today, and it's a field Marvel doesn't know much about. They've got Hastings and North, but they don't have someone with their ear to the ground, searching out fresh talent there. They're kind of oblivious, and a bit willfully so. You'd think they could hire someone just to do this kind of stuff, instead of tasking already busy editors.
The webcomics sections of awards like the Eisners causes me no end of frustration. Even Image only picked up K6BD because of Brandon Graham.
>>84313718
Is Valerio Schiti still chained to GOTG?
>Tim Seeley Maybe. But 'investment' isn't really how the Big 2 work. They need results, now.
>>84313604
the Avengers Prime stuff makes me mad too because it makes the men all look like horrible cads. "Hey Steve, you're engaged to Sharon, but why not have sex with the sexy dark elf, what happens here stays here!"
0 retweets 0 likes
>>84313794
>I thought she was being sarcastic, but no, she apparently just really fucking hates that bitch Wasp.
HEY KIDS! WOMEN!Gail Simone has some weird moments.
>>84313749
Right, Gillen was wrapping up a very specific thing done with a specific version of a character. But Hand is the kind of piece you should leave in the toybox for someone else to use.
>>84313859
I don't want to demand that every woman has to be chipper and lovey on every female character, though
>>84313718
I was no particular fan of Victoria Hand, but the character had potential for lots of plots. In particular any anti-SHIELD or off-the-books thing. Waller territory - she's got the experience with a team of unstable and villainous capes.
>>84313790
Clever, yes, in a way. A good idea, no. In my opinion, anyway.
"This less evolved group that straight up went extinct IRL is our representation of black people and such"
Like...it's just not thinking about the implications here. It's focused so on in-universe, it doesn't take into account the real life context.
Not a 1:1 comparison, but like, I think of if a Big 2 writer decided "this black guy can turn into a gorilla" and had all sorts of in-universe justification and reasoning for it, but didn't think, at all, about how that looks outside of that in-universe build.
>>84313795
>You're aware the neanderthals went extinct?
>We also think Homo sapiens had a competitive edge over Neanderthals. There is evidence that early Homo sapiens had long-distance trade networks, possibly buffering them against times of climate change when their preferred foods were not available; Neanderthals did not.
So it's historical.
insider.si.edu/2015/08/why-did-neanderthals-go-extinct/
>>84313794
>>84313859
to be fair, Wasp has not had the best comics
>>84313883
>>84313888
Yeah Hand was a good character to have in that SHIELD toybox.
>>84313883
oh shit, Matt's going rogue
>>84313888
versatile supporting cast with an established backstory and more questionable morals--that's potential gold
>>84313892
there's some care by the colorist to show that the Bedrock homo sapiens residents aren't all Fred-colored white, at least, tho
>>84313487
I'm actually sort of optimistic about InHumans. There are a lot of good narrative building blocks in it like in the Infinite Ulysses comic with the tower being so fucked up and in the Kingpin comic with Janus experiencing terrigenesis as a religious experience.
Sadly the best book of the bunch, all new, is getting axed.
>>84313813
>the Avengers Prime stuff makes me mad too because it makes the men all look like horrible cads
Bendis only has one voice for all his characters, and that voice is College Age Brian Michael Bendis.
>>84313883
Yeah, but I would never wish for any character to be dead.
Every character has fans.
>>84313892
Does it have to have that exact real life context? How much of that is a personal reading?
The Neanderthals aren't black, they aren't enslaved and they aren't natives to the area.
>>84313928
>>84313961
oh shit
I keep bitching about Avengers Prime, so here's the bit
>>84313916
>to be fair, Wasp has not had the best comics
True, but does that mean she deserves to die for Hank Pym character development? When he already basically has Maria in the same basic role?
>>84313928
It's something, yeah. I still think the minority metaphor tack is a bad move (it's already always been pretty bad in X-Men), outside of my dislike for the tone of the book in general. Still well made! Just definitely not my jam.
>>84313958
There's some obvious parallels to employers exploiting immigrant labor, I think.
>>84313929
>Ewing book is good
in other news water is wet
and yes I am sorry for all new, i dont care about uncanny inhumans because for one they dont have black bolt and none of the stories after the first arc has interested me.
>>84313813
TBQH the idea of Cadvengers as a thing is kind of appealing. Emma would be a must.
>>84313974
CHrist, Alan Davis was wasted on this mini
>>84313974
am i looking at this wrong, or are the Punisher-bot's legs fused to the ground?
>>84313928
How is Matt not in on this? Or at least not aware of the fact that Jake is gunning down Black Carders and their shyster lawyers.
It's not like he's being SUBTLE about it.
>>84313958
Explain the moment with Fred talking about hanging with a car full of neanderthals without some kind of racial allegory here.
And there's no way the tree people allegory isn't about natives.
I think the writer is definitely making deliberate choices, which I don't think are smart ones. Punching out of his weight class on this.
>>84313999
this boils down to a "hurr, she's easy" joke, and it makes the men look bad too.
That said, Thor's face is great.
>>84313994
I really want to know who at Marvel decided that Medusa should mean the main Inhuman. I mean, Crystal's been all around Earth and has a bunch of connections.
>>84314029
This is 2099. The only DareDevil is Kingpin's kid in a cyborg suit, and he showed up later.
>>84313990
There are, yeah. And there are parallels to pretty much any opinion of a conquered or colonized race by its oppressors.
But, IDK, the Neanderthals aren't portrayed as inferior. It's not the real world. We don't know to regard them as evolutionarily inferior in the context of the comic. I think there's a line that kind of questions the value of a civilization that commercializes things in the first place. At the end they choose not to participate in the society they've been invited to and they're shown as its moral superiors. I guess kind of a BNW vibe to me.
>>84314072
Direct Black Bolt connection, and that's about it. She should be queen, absolutely, which would be interesting... if she wasn't written so goddamn blandly.
Like, hooking her up with Johnny Storm, that's a spaghetti at a wall move.
>>84314072
it reeks of advance predictive movie synergy
so will Priest be the first person in how long NOT to shit on Jericho?
>>84314077
I don't think Kirkman's 2099 books were set in the same world as the previous ones.
>>84314031
I think it's general rather than specific, and because of that I don't feel offended by or on behalf of the specific. I'm not American and my experience of this topic and what I saw in this comic is probably different to your own.
>>84314115
He said it's going to be a Shakespearean Family drama.
Not gonna lie, this could get ugly.
>>84314031
A friend of yours shows up with some strangers in the back of their car, doesn't explain who they are, and you're not going to ask questions?
>>84314090
Again, I'm just gonna have to draw my line that it's not about the in-universe lore and worldbuilding here for me, and more about the real life context and implications drawn (or rather, implications the writer didn't consider). No, it's not the real world, but the real world still contextualizes the production and choices of the book.
This'll go in circles, so we should probably stop here.
>>84314119
Weren't they basically prequel one shots that you could take or leave?
Like Punisher hooking up with Elektra and then having a kid who couldn't have the blood on his hands.
>>84314115
I dunno, in one interview he sounds like he is keeping the evil part.
But hopefully it won't shit all over Joey and will be more nuanced. Most of the "oh no Joey is evil" stuff is just shitty writing or he's laughably evil for no reason. 2008 Titans for the former and new 52 for the latter.
and speaking of Priest and Deathstroke, he's apparently bringing back the Dick mentoring Rose part, i.e. Dick and Damian interactions before Damian existed.
>>84314115
>it reeks of advance predictive movie synergy
Not gonna lie, I'm fine if the Inhumans movie ends up not being made.
SHIELD Inhuman-ed me out.
>>84314115
>so will Priest be the first person in how long NOT to shit on Jericho?
Well, Wolfman didn't shit on him in the Convergence mini but I dunno if I'd count that
Jericho's been badly written/a shitty villain for what, like 20 years?
>>84314115
>>84314170
he said Grant was the Bad Kid, tho
>>84313994
I liked the Civil War tie-in and the Reader issue best of Uncanny. CW because it shows that they are, at least somewhat, a United nation with power to throw around that other groups don't. Reader issue because it was an interesting take on a power and character. That being said, of all Inhuman adjacent books Uncanny is my least favorite (including Moon girl, which is barely related)
>>84314031
>Explain the moment with Fred talking about hanging with a car full of neanderthals without some kind of racial allegory here.
It's like driving with a car full of smelly foreigners for no apparent reason.
>>84314102
>Like, hooking her up with Johnny Storm, that's a spaghetti at a wall move.
Is there a female equivalent for "Eskimo Brothers" and does nobody at Marvel remember that Johnny used to date Medusa's kid sister?
>>84314196
I think we've all blocked out that time we read New 52 Team 7, haven't we
>>84314170
>the Dick mentoring Rose part,
Literally the only truly good thing about Grayson's Nightwing run.
And it makes so much sense too when you think about the characters and all their relations and how Deathstroke used to be a more evil Batman.
>>84314221
I literally forgot that book ever happened, and I remembered all their fucking military books which they MADE COST AN EXTRA DOLLAR THE DUMB FUCKS
>>84314221
>>84314221
To pre-empt you. Yes Storyteller. This is /d/.
>>84314221
>New 52 Team 7
Nu52 Wildstorm was bad.
And I read all of the original Brandon Choi books.
>>84314212
i don't think anyone remembers anything about Crystal's past. Where's quicksilver been too
>>84314196
Then hopefully if Joey being evil is still a thing, it'll be Grant was just shit, and Joey was turned evil and unstable but wants to do good.
>>84314184
>Jericho's been badly written/a shitty villain for what, like 20 years?
Titans is a circular hell of Jericho and Raven coming back and turning evil again and again.
If it weren't for the cartoon I feel like it'd be about as printable as the Outsiders nowadays.
>>84314147
I don't feel that the exploitation of natives and immigrants is something you can ignore in the area this comic is coming from, and I don't know that it would have been as effective if it had been sanitized. If you want to stop though, fair enough. I'm kinda curious as to how you think this should have been done or if you think it would just have been better left out entirely.
>>84314221
wasn't the Wall on that team? and black canary
lol
>>84314252
PAD was addressing it in ANXF, which they cut down prematurely even though come on, it's a PAD book like that, it'll settle low but very steady
>>84314250
yes, yes it was.
where's mai waifu Zealot, I ask you
>>84314250
You should storytime 4-17 of Deathblow for Tim Sale art though.
It's basically nuns with guns and a Spawn ripoff.
>>84314246
As hard to get rid of as OG Jigsaw (whose now back from the dead in Civil War II: Kingpin).
>>84314287
>nuns with guns
tell me more
>>84314274
I'm pretty sure she showed up for 5 seconds but never again.
>>84314257
Outsiders sold pretty well in the 00s tho
I'm pretty surprised we haven't had a book in new 52 yet since Outsiders supported one from 2003 to 2011
>>84314274
>mai waifu Zealot
You have such a type, OP.
>>84314252
>Where's quicksilver been too
Uncanny Avengers.
>>84314246
I don't know how much I like the new Malibu colouring coming in these last couple issues.
>>84314293
>>84314313
Would you want it as a Batman-lead team, or what would be the pitch for it?
>>84314315
guilty as charged!
>>84314252
>i don't think anyone remembers anything about Crystal's past
It's just a meandering line of being X's Girlfriend/Wife for the most part.
You got Johnny, Quicksilver, Black Knight, Ronan...
>>84314317
oh yeah
>>84314322
Looks like Jake would love Carol.
>>84314349
At least the Ronan stuff had some slightly different dynamics to it, but that's really correct.
HEY LOOK, IT'S CIVIL WAR 2: 2099!
>>84314349
i mean she did something or other, like wasn't she a member of the FF for a bit?
>>84314341
I have this suspicious, waifu-wise, that we could Venn diagram you and Judge Anon, and the lack of overlap would be "Dreamy" on one side and "British characters I don't know" on the other.
>>84314322
Eh, I'd take it if Batman was more like Oracle and just told them shit but didn't actually go with them on missions
Do more dirty work that way. Be the token dark team book. Take that load from Teen Titans and have JL be more classic heroics.
>>84314293
Deathblow is blowing up Iraqi bunkers but instead breaks into a secret Templar base and assasinates a ninja priest.
Deathblow then learns he has cancer from GenFactor poisoning and is going to die in six months. It also turns out the Templars are out to kill him for killing their people.
There's a kid in New York Hospital who is miraculously healing people and being little Jesus. A 90's metal band reject demon wants to kill him and take his power to destroy the world.
It's glorious stupidity drawn by Tim Sale.
>>84314259
I'll make my last point: I know it's where the book is coming from.
I think it is being handled in the most well meant, and absolutely clumsily done manner. I'm not asking for ''sanitized", I'm saying "this is a stupid move" from the get go.
If it was me, I would've ditched all the racial/immigrant commentary vis a vis different forms of man entirely. If I WANTED to keep it, I wouldn't have beaten around the bush and just made it about other people, not different evolutionary forms, moving into bedrock. Straight up, straightforward, old fashioned racism, xenophobia, you name it. I find the minority metaphor a really, really badly handled thing, by and large, and mostly used by writers who want to write about very real, very important shit, but want some literary cover for them that lets them fuzz out the shit they don't understand, don't research, don't know, and often come to very unnuanced philosophies and approaches to very real struggles. Mages or fantasy races or whatever the fuck as representations for marginalized groups tends to be awkward at best.
If anything, I'd like it to be less sanitized. Much more direct with its critique of racism, colonialism, and others, not using all these stand-in groups to represent it. No rhetorical or lore cover, no "oh these are ROBOTS or whatever meant to stand in for minorities so of course the struggles are similar, but" kind of bullshit, don't beat around the bush, just fucking do it.
But since I don't entirely trust the writer to do that, as I think is clear from my point, I'd say ditch it all entirely and focus on that good ol' fashioned existential struggle and matters of consumerism and climbing the corporate ladder and not having anything to do at home, which the book is handling much better.
>>84314274
>where's mai waifu Zealot, I ask you
Helping Rebirth Grifter be Rowdy Roddy Piper?
I wasn't around for your read of Grifter, and I generally NOPED out of Nu52, but Gunbit in a comic book version of They Live was a solid pitch.
>>84314379
I found this comment on Flintstones on Twitter:
>And it's seemingly there so we can sympathize with the trauma of the men who ENACTED it rather than its victims, what a mess.
FWIW I read it completely different, that it was about how horrifying what they did was, and how they're trying to paper it over but it was deeply fucked-up
>>84314317
His suit in that is a so bad whoever designed it should be arrested.
>>84314446
I love Jake's cape so much
>>84314472
oh shit
>>84314420
The Flintstones is "present day, but in the stone age." They celebrated Christmas.
>>84314420
I think sanitized was the wrong word for me to use there, I didn't really communicate what I wanted to. But I see your problem with the choice of using neanderthals as a proxy there - thanks again for being willing to post all this out.
>>84314511
Nothing ever comes of this, in case anyone is wondering.
>>84314379
>At least the Ronan stuff had some slightly different dynamics to it, but that's really correct.
The Inhumans' Kree Empire was an idea that was completely wasted. It lasted just long enough to correct the error of Vulcan's existence.
>>84314446
Not having any of the victims present doesn't help, is the thing.
>>84314547
Still mad at Hickman for fucking it all up FOR WHAT GAIN
Marvel Cosmic: We Hang Out On Earth Now
>>84314551
Well, they are all dead.
>>84314565
I'm trying to figure out what this art reminds me of
>>84314565
I guess this implies that the people he turned into statues were still aware (and possible curable) since he's responding to shit talk that Jigsaw spewed even before he started pulling the hand away.
>>84314591
that's some retroactive fridge horror
>>84314386
She was an Avenger before it was cool.
>>84314591
Maybe they could be Marvel's Crystal Gems.
>>84314603
>>84314621
this isn't prescient
>>84314672
gonna feel so strange with Hawkeye and T-Bolts collections but no T-Bolts
>>84314689
DOGWELDER, EAT YOUR HEART OUT
>>84314672
I see Jake has learned from the Skyblades- To get someone in your gang good and true, make 'em kill someone.
>>84314705
Huh?
>>84314715
I really, really want Jake's little Punisher beret. I love wearing berets.
this is the most COMICS! thing ever
>>84314715
>THEY SHOT HIM WITH HIS OWN DOG
>>84314736
Marvel's collecting classic Thunderbolts but the era Hawkeye lead the team is getting Hawkeye & on the title. and i'm not gonna get otehr runs bc the Hawkeye era is the only one that's connected w/ me
>>84314705
They did put out earlier reprints too, titled Thunderbolts Classic
>>84314751
>>84314809
>>84314809
Did Mills decide that since this was his last issue he'd say fuck it to writing a coherent comic or did someone scan this and then label everything out of order?
>>84314848
So here we leave Pat Mills behind and Chuck Dixon comes on next issue, so...let's wave goodbye to Jake for now. Please don't kill us.
Tomorrow: eh, I figure JLI from the top, I have digital trades, yes?
>>84314861
COMICS
>>84314809
I think a couple of these pages were misnamed in your torrent.
This seems like it should be back around page 5 where Robunisher shows up with that gator for no reason.
>>84314420
I like it when racial/immigrant commentary comes up in fantasy settings, and would appreciate it if fewer white people/non-immigrants stopped getting offended on my behalf. I get that it makes some people uncomfortable, but I like being able to connect with experiences on the page without having some writer try to tell me that they're completely and accurately capturing my own experiences.
>>84314876
>Tomorrow: eh, I figure JLI from the top, I have digital trades, yes?
sounds good!
>>84314876
>Tomorrow: eh, I figure JLI from the top, I have digital trades, yes?
You gonna do JLE too, since they converge at the end of Giffen/Demetteis with Breakdowns?
>>84314887
WHOOPS!
I just figured it was Mills being Mills, you know? Heh, sorry about that...
>>84314861
Incoherency is always potentially on the cards with Mills. This really was Mills to a tee though, a lot of the time he just seemed to flip back into Dredd or some of his other projects and throw it into the Punisher.
thanks OP. this was a wild ride.
>>84314922
we'll see how much JLI/E we want to read in one chunk or if we want to break it up more
>>84314952
>mydickisbiggerandcanfly.jpg
>>84315141
to be fair, Apollo's dick can also fly
>>84314876
Thanks again OP.
>>84314952
>we will never see Zealot or her dickcycle again
Fuck, I want Seeley to use her and have her take Dick on a ride
>>84312964
Wow, how fuckin' rude are they, mistakenly thinking that Doom's the president when it's actually Spawn...
