Why do people still read the Big Two? I'm genuinely curious, and I would love it if we kept it civil.
In my humble opinion all the big characters are milked dry and all the obscure ones just get ridiculously "boosted" in an effort to freshen the main roster, but it doesn't seem to be working for various reasons.
Do you think if Marvel and DC were out of the picture that would improve the state of comics as a medium and lead to a renaissance for new publishers to flourish?
Disclaimer: I don't wanna take anybody's capeshit away, nor do I think of capeshit as inferior to other genres, I just think DC and Marvel capeshit is a beaten to death horse.
I love the feel of certain characters and am to lazy to look for new ones that resembles them elsewhere.
I'm not a sophomoric snob.
>>84305752
i grew up on and love DC characters
i also don't mind poor writing
Not big into Marvel but i've recently started dabbling
I'll also probably start reading non-big-2 capeshit after i finish with The Authority if i can keep finding ones that peak my interest
>>84305752
Because, contrary to popular belief, they DO still put out some good shit.
>>84305752
I read most of marvel but I do comicstorian for most of DC.
>>84306048
You're an easily entertained simpleton instead?
>>84306048
>Why do you read the big 2?
>I dunno, but I'm gonna insult the fuck out of everyone who doesn't
doesn't make sense
I treat cape characters as archetypes. A good writer simply has to take the archetype (and their specific history) and then fit it into an interesting story. Being in a well-connected universe makes things more impacting and whatnot.
>>84305752
>All characters have been milked dry
There are still writers who can write a unique take on those characters or can write good with those characters. They are very few, but there are.
I enjoy the characters and stories.
Why else read something?
Oh god yes.
If it wasn't for superheroes the world would have a much more informed view of comic books as a medium.
>>84306191
>i grew up on and love DC characters
Nostalgia goggles aside, do you still legitimately enjoy their comics, or is it just a matter of habit for you?
>>84306469
This is a solid argument if you simply treat them as an anthology series of sorts with recurring character archetypes, but if that's the case how do you keep your interest when the outcomes of the stories are predictable and the writing and dialogue are not the most complex or compelling (generalizing, of course there are exceptions occasionally)?
>>84306642
Habit; Sense of community;
>>84305752
Why do people ever read capeshit at all?
>>84305752
Good ideas never die.
>>84306353
To be fair knowing indiefags. insulting them is simply a case of "fight fire with fire".
>>84306842
Says the X-fag.
>Do you think if Marvel and DC were out of the picture that would improve the state of comics as a medium and lead to a renaissance for new publishers to flourish?
No. Indy stuff lacks the lowest common denominator appeal of capes, and much of it is pretty derivative and boring. I have the recent DnQ anniversary book and it is full of boring ass comics. Stories about jerking off, making fun of cape fans, doing drugs and middle aged life crisis are never going to have the appeal of capes.
>>84306807
>do you still legitimately enjoy their comics, or is it just a matter of habit for you?
Yeah i'm still enjoying them
i got hype as fuck when batman rode that plane into the water like a horse
But understand i've only been reading since New 52
I grew up on DCAU
Because I only started reading comics 2 years ago, so the characters aren't old and stale to me yet. The old Heros that you find to be passed their prime are still fun and exciting to me and other assimilated normies.
>>84306842
>>84306894
Indie is not a genre of comics.
Very occasionally, a good writer makes a good story with characters associated with the big 2, like the recent Hawkeye runs.
Equally or even more rarely, a new character is introduced, and writers may be competent enough to make their story and personality interesting and charming. I have loved most of ms marvel and gwenpoole, for example.
Unfortunately, in the case of ms marvel, big 2 make things nigh-unreadable because I have to read 8 other comics in order to understand the context surrounding the current plot points. Those books are often poorly written (see: all new all different avengers and ms marvel) and poorly utilize the character I'm trying to read about.
So, in essence, I fucking hate the big 2 and their structure, but occasionally they put out some gold, which may or may not become very quickly ruined. I wish ms marvel had her own series/universe like a manga...sigh
>>84306894
There's a big middle ground between the two though. Self-important indie shit isn't the only alternative to marvel and DC, there's even non-big 2 capeshit
>>84306794
Or people would just assume that comic books are weird French stuff and Donald Duck. My country isn't huge on American comics so most people just think of comics in general as meant for children (because of Donald Duck and a few of our own books) or as newspaper strips.
>>84306957
A lot of Indy fans are convinced that everyone will love what they love of capes were not in the way.
Someone has to be to blame!
>>84306991
Get over yourself, professor.
>>84306894
Fucking this. While it is true that most big two comics are bad, that is also true for indies, but these don't have a vast audience that is able to sustain an industry
>>84307042
>This
>>84306997
>>84306991
who said they were? Is that just something you post when you feel threatened?
>>84305752
>I would love it if we kept it civil.
you poor, deluded fool
The word "capeshit" is the worst cancer since "edgy" or "lolsorandom.
>>84306997
All of which are overwhelmingly produced by big two writers and artists, who would be nowhere w/out DC/Marvel
>>84307000
>weird French stuff
85% of it is a lot more normal than superheroes in capes
>>84307179
Only if you take yourelf way too seriously
>>84307179
You mean the best thing, since you can ignore all the posts containing it.
>>84307179
>>84307358
>triggered capeshitters can't handle the bantz
I enjoy the characters and stories. Most of my pulls go towards stuff from Archie Comics, Image, Action Labs, BOOM, etc, but I still enjoy a good bit of capeshit. In fact, because of Rebirth, my DC pulls have gone up a shit ton. Even pulling the four Hanna Barbera titles. Just because it's from the big two doesn't mean it lacks soul.
>>84305752
I don't anymore, but brand name goes a long way with alot of people.
I haven't read a lot of old comics outside of JLA and LoSH so new comics don't feel as overdone to me as they do to people who have read more old comics. And I guess I just like the characters, the concepts and the stories even if they often are a bit corny and dumb.
I read DC because Marvel fucked itself up and i think the capeshit genre is awesome. Cheesy, yes, but not terrible. I love the tropes, i love when they use these tropes in new and creative ways.
Some of them are good entertaining action stories.
When I want intelligent and good writing from something, I reread Nabokov.
I'm not a content woodchipper so I can usually find decent-quality material that I haven't read, usually in whatever specific title I'm looking for.
>>84306807
>how do you keep your interest when the outcomes of the stories are predictable and the writing and dialogue are not the most complex or compelling (generalizing, of course there are exceptions occasionally)?
Well, we all have certain levels of shit/mediocrity that we accept from our entertainment. Tons of people, even smart people, watch Big Bang Theory or various reality shows; they read schlock; they go to crappy blockbuster movies in theaters; etc.
All of which is to say that I *know* that Big2 stuff isn't the absolute greatest, but it's still reasonably good, even in the confines of it never being GOAT.
Cape comics can still occasionally be great, and the usual mediocrity isn't so bad when you're just looking for a distraction of sorts.
>>84307202
Yeah if you only look at the highest selling image books and stuff they did all work at big 2 before but I think it's slowly changing and their are new creators with moderate success who don't work there. I imagine if marvel/dc completely stopped existing new artists and writers would still keep making comics
For me a big part of the appeal is that they are big, mythic characters with decades of stories. The fact that they are not tied to a specific author but their mythologies are a decades-long collaborative work. They have been around for so long and written by so many people, era is a reflection of the times they lived in, they're larger than life and that makes their story fascinating. There's quite nothing like it in any other medium.They're unique in that aspect.
>>84307822
No Marvel no image. Period. You are fantasizing about a world with a completely different infrastructure. Which is just fine, but purely imaginary.
>>84308574
That's like saying that if Al Gore didn't invent the internet somebody else wouldn't have created the series of tubes.
>>84305752
You need the big two to even have a market. Even if one goes out of business, the whole market will follow.
I think that a lot of the quality depends on the quality of artists/writers and the creative freedom the Big Two are willing to accept at a given time.
Ms. Marvel, Waid's Daredevil, Moon Knight, Vision, the new Kingpin book that came out today, Midnighter, The Omega Men, Multiversity... are all good books.
When things get boring and fans are starting to lose interest, there will be a new opportunity for experimentation. New Moore's and Morrison's will be be born.
Because there are still good new comics being made today, aswell as some unique characters like Swamp Thing/ Man-Thing aswell as series like Section Eight.
And since I´m mostly a DC fag that missed comics from 1999-2007, I also have a lot of good old series to read. Also the big universe is a huge appeal
>>84305752
Marketing.
>>8430865
Are you high?
The founders of Image were all directly Marvel guys. They quit Marvel to form Image
>>84305752
>still
These thread seems to be for oldfags but I read them because I just started. I'm sure I'll become jaded in time.
>>84305752
>In my humble opinion all the big characters are milked dry
Capes aren't totally stale yet.There have been some recent unique takes on cape characters (i.e Grayson) that prove that a 75 year old character can still seem fresh.Marvel is a fucking mess right now though
>>84305752
Because every time something else does well and gets a strong following one of the big 2 buys it and turns it t shit.
>>84309249
Examples?
>>84305752
I mostly don't. But I don't go out of my way to avoid them either. I read good comics. Doesn't matter to me who published them. I'm fond of capeshit, and sometimes the big two produce decent capeshit.
I don't really know why people seem to judge stuff on a publisher by publisher basis, since it's not a good predictor of quality. Even a single creator's work can vary wildly in quality, so acting as if publishers are consistently good or bad is nonsensical.
And no, Marvel and DC disappearing would not have a positive effect. That's not how economics works.
>>84308655
So, what your saying is neither marvel or image even exist.
Because both those things are complete fucking bullshit.
>>84308794
>Unique
>Swamp Thing/man thing
Do you even know what unique means?
