Bumped it from a 7 to a 8 imo.
I hated the Theatrical cut of the film. But, the ultimate edition sold me on this universe. It was really well put together.
>>84123191
7 to a 9. Best capeshit of the year.
>>84123191
I'm waiting for a cut that replaces Eisenberg with a less obnoxious actor.
>>84123191
I'm not wasting any more time on that shit.
>>84123283
0.21 pounds have been deposited to your bank account
>>84123335
Your loss. Seriously. It's good.
>>84123191
All it did was confirm the editor was a dumbass. The film itself is still a 7 at best. All I want to do is move on
>>84123347
Not that anon, but i still have to hear anything to convince me the extended edition is actually better in a significant way
I mean, don't get me wrong, sure as fuck there are welcomed changes, like making Clark actually do something throughout the movie, but, keeping with that example, does investigating shit about some else give him an actual character?
Or Lex's men burning those corpses to make it look like Supes killed them, for example: sure, it helps making the next scenes have more sense, now people have an actual reason to fear Superman did something bad, but that still doesn't make Luthor's plan less retarded, it still works only because the script said so, any medic could easily determine bullets were the cause of death, and Lex still exposed himself by using super-tech bullets to kill a bunch of guerrilla idiots
The bullets were only there to make Lois do something and, just like with Clark, that does not a character make yet. And the extended cut added even MORE scenes about the subject... do i really need Jena Malone wasting my time to explain something i already know, as an audience? In a 3 hours movie? I've seen people arguing that such scenes are necessary "to clear Superman's name after the events of the movie", but if the movie itself doesn't explore such subject, why should i care about something that MAYBE happened off-screen and off-script?
And any addition still wouldn't be able to fix Martha or the completely unecessary Doomsday, but whatever i guess
>>84123191
I'm watching it now. I'm like 4 minutes in. I never saw the theatrical cut so this is my only impression of it.
>>84123191
yea, it was worse
>>84124103
>Bruce being lifted up into the air arms outstretched
Pfft. That scene would have been just fine without all that.
>>84124175
That part was in the theatrical cut, and was just as silly there.
>>84123191
never saw the theatrical one but it must have been real shit for you people to think this was any good. 3/10
>>84124286
all those fucking dream sequences should never have even been filmed. What a hack
>>84124410
Does the extended cut make the ghost dad scene any less sudden, I wonder?
>>84123363
Snyder chose what to edit out for the theatrical edition.
>>84124529
It's hilarious how fanboys jumped from "Snyder did nothing wrong and the film was perfect!" to "actually I can see the theatrical cut has problems BUT surely it was the editor's/producers' fault!"
Can someone please list what is in the extended version? Any Robin?
>>84123191
>>84123363
What the hell is a 7 in your minds?
To me a 7 is a solid and good grade, not something you'd give to a movie you dislike in any way.
>>84123191
It's such an unbelievably BORING mess.
>>84124175
It's gonna take me like 8 hours to watch this cause I keep pausing.
Why is Lois being such a bitch to Jimmy?
>>84124911
Because we're not allowed to have good things
You'll see
>>84123191
Unless they have completely replaced Jesse Eisenberg with the real Lex Luthor I'm not watching it again.
>>84124989
Fucking why? That could have just been some goon.
There's nothing the extended cut can do about Lex Landis, Ninja Turtle Doomsday, jar of piss, Miller type edgy bullshit like sex slavery and branding criminals like cattle, the retarded senator, the retarded hero pie story, the ugliness of the CGI and the uninspired cinematography that can't decide if it wants to be vibrant-surreal or desaturated and gritty.
While the film may have felt jumbled and scattershot, that was never my key problem with it.
My problem is that I hate Snyder's vision for the DC universe. He's has no grasp of character interaction and good actors frequently give their worst performances in his films. His story structure sucks even when it is coherent and he gets lost in brain numbing action.
And now that piece of shit gives an interview claiming people don't like when you deconstruct their heroes. Of course they don't when a retard does it.
>>84125041
Kek
You should've seen when the theatrical cut was out. For some reason the scene where he goes "I'm Jimmy Olsen" was cut, so while he was credited as such most people couldn't tell who he was
People started damage controlling, saying stuff like "they deleted that scene because it wasn't Canon anymore! The EC will fix it!"
Then Snyder talked about it in an interview
>We had no plans to ever use Jimmy so I thought "why not still have fun with the character lol"
>>84123191
Yes. It went from a 6 to a 6.5.
>>84125041
>cop walks in
>camera pans to batman splayed on the wall
I can't be the only one who found that hilarious
>>84125253
Also
>Bat brand
That's edgy as fuck.I like it.
>>84123191
Just give up already. You don't have to accept this.
>>84124175
That scene was great. It became even better when I saw Batman Begins, where Bruce was held down by the bats instead. The contrast was incredible.
>>84125253
I kinda did, the scene was cool overall I guess, but Bats looked genuinely scared
Also it doesn't make much sense in universe. If Batman is an old-timey hero that, as we know, already worked with Gordon and the police, then why would he feel the need to hide from cops and why would cops be surprised by his existence? The answer is Snyder took the scene from DKR ignoring the change of context
>>84124613
No, I'm pretty sure that every single person who has ever talked about the film held one unified belief that the editing was bad.
>>84124613
Personally it went from a 10/10 to an 11/10 for me.
>>84125277
Go to bed, tripfaggot.
>>84125333
Yeah but him not being close to the cops kinda works. I imagine here its kind of like a Punisher situation where law enforcement not exactly knowing where to land on Batman. I mean I assume, I don't know if he interacts with cops later in the movie. .
>>84124103
Where'd you find it?
>>84125400
It's 3 in the afternoon.
>>84125410
Yeah, i see what you mean. But these are the problems of introducing a character with a long, possibly complex history we know nothing of, i guess. No, i don't think he interacts with cops again, not in the theatrical at least
>>84125439
Go to bed permanently.
So, what happens at the various 52 moments?
>>84125510
Doesn't Batman see the omega symbol at 52 minutes, or is that in the theatrical cut?
It hurt to watch. Can't believe they cut it to shreds and screened the mutilated corpse
>>84125496
No. Sorry to disrupt "hugboxkino" or whatever you have going on here.
Has anyone got a dl or stream link of this anywhere? All I can find is some slow ass torrents.
>>84125540
I really don't think you're sorry at all.
>>84125591
Nah, I'm not. Sorry.
>>84125537
Yeah, that's in the theatrical cut
>>84124485
Yeah, it replaces Kevin Costner with Bill Cosby.
5 to a 7 for me
>>84125613
>What's in this drink, Dad?
>>84125434
KAT
>>84125253
Ha! That little fight club scene was cute. I'm really liking Batfleck so far.
The only fucking problem that remains is the reason why they are fighting each other.
We have a whole hour and a half about how superman is so angry about Batman and why bats is so angry about supes. Nice. (Way better in UC tho)
But we have this scene on the top of lex building where he basically says: "So now go fight bats for me, fuck jour reason just go or i kill ya momma" This is nonsense.
First: why Supes didn't heard his mom when she got captured ? He did heard lois when she felt off that roof.
Sec: This would have ben waaaay better if the movie kept going with his shit: lex turning supes against bats and reverse, like
>he makes belive supes that Batman has his momma
>supes angry at bat
> supes really angry fight with bats angry tout fort all his well explained reasons,
> end of the fight, bats about to kill supes
> Lois discovered the truth
> She arrives , make them realise that they are not ennemies,
> Lex is the true vilain,
> They fight Doomsday,
> supes dies,
> Blabla all we know
> end of the movie
The next morning on rottenTomatoes
> 10/10 would watch again, Snydergod thx
This is how I would have fix it
>>84123191
Watched it first time today, 5/10, I've known already about many flaws of the movie (MARTHA, etc.), but reviews and all discussion here and in Internet didn't prepare me to how dull and boring this was. Color pallete of the movie was perfect representation of it: grey, grey, grey.
>>84125598
Still tripfagging, eh tripfag? You're not a special snowflake.
>>84124720
For me too but just take a look at the us press rating on video games. Every games are rated between 7 and 10. 7 is bad in the usa for some reason.
>>84125808
I know, but BvS is still shit and nothing can fix that.
>>84125855
So do you get paid to shill against good movies or do you do it for free?
>>84125855
>BvS is still shit and nothing can fix that.
You should be able to relate then.
>>84125445
Okay so Batman has been Batmaning for a million years already and even has a Joker and a dead Robin but Clark (the journalist) never heard of him?
>>84125931
That's a loaded question, so I'll ignore it.
Believe it or not, I actually tried to like BvS. I wanted it to be as good as I thought it could be. But it wasn't, it was fucking terrible. From Jimmy Olsen getting killed in the first 10 minutes just for shock value (which doesn't work because we never even knew he existed in this universe and he doesn't even have anything to do with the Jimmy Olsen from the comics besides hair color), Lex Luthor's entire characterization changing from scene to scene with the script writing off that mistake as "HE'S CRAZY OR SOMETHING," to WB using Diana to shill the next three DC solo movies, made blatantly obvious by the fact that the file opening scene has absolutely nothing to do with the plot of the movie, a plot so self-important that it never bothers to explain any of the characters or their motivations at all, it's just a great big wash pretending to be high art. And you dickheads fell for it.
>>84125995
It's not his fault, Perry keeps placing him on sports!
>>84126106
>the file opening scene has absolutely nothing to do with the plot of the movie
They really should've had a scene of Lex aknowledging the existence of other super people and explain why he hates Superman so much when he's been following beings almost as powerful for probably months if not years.
I mean, he knows that the oceans of the world are possibly secretly ruled by a race of underwater weirdos, that somewhere there's an immortal woman that possibly shaped the history of mankind, that an hobo could run anywhere in the world in a matter of seconds, that a scientist discovered powerful alien tech and used it to rebuilt his cripples son... but his biggest problem is with the guy that shoots lasers out of his eyes?
Every single one of these dream sequences are retarded. Is it implied that Supes is gonna go full injustice?
>>84126521
Nah, he's just kind of a dick. They're trying to make him similar to the earliest versions of Superman from the late 30s and the Fleischer cartoons because Snyder seems to think that he hasn't evolved since then.
>>84123191
No. It was still horrible.
But at least I didn't had to spend money on it. Piracy was made for stuff like this
>>84126620
I mean in future movies though what with the flash thing and lois being some kind of key. Or was that about this movie?
>>84126521
>the human trafficker had a kid boo hoo hoo
>>84126653
That Lois Lane shit could have meant anything or it could have meant absolutely nothing. There is no grand plan for this shit.
>>84123191
Same here. If you didn't like the theatrical cut you probably won't like this much either, but I felt it was already a solid 7 or 7.5.
Same Snyder schlock as before.
I'm shipping Mercy and Lex hard.
>>84126876
>shipping anything other than Lex/Kryptonite
Shameful
>>84126876
Good luck with that
>>84123886
U my nigga
>>84126973
Lex/Kryptonite is cancer.
Why the hell didn't that senator keep that african chick safe as a witness?
>>84123191
Why is doomsday stronger than superman if he's part human?
And why didn't batman try submerging supes in the kryptonian bio slime if he knew that doomsday had to be created and regenerated from kryptonian DNA?
>>84127118
>Why is doomsday stronger than superman if he's part human?
Dragon Ball Z rules. If you're part human you level up faster.
>>84127118
No one knew jackshit about the kryptonian bio slime
>>84123886
This guy gets it
>capital building explodes
>dozens of people dead
>superman stands stands there looking mildly annoyed
What the hell
>>84123886
Lex liked to show his hands in everything, and Lois managed to investigate the bullet because of her briefcase, not because they were on the bodies, and they weren't super-tech bullets.
Superman and Lois also had character and a character arc, this even in the theatrical cut. People were just too stupid to understand it or something.
>>84126651
This. People already gave it FAR more than it deserved. 3/10
>>84126620
I'm finding it hard to believe Snyder thinks Superman has any personality. Why is he so bland and disinterested?
>>84127300
It was in her book and it was struck during the firefight. That's where the super-tech bullet thread came from.
What was Lois' arc? She had a thread she followed to completion but zero character. She did not change for good or bad, she did not mature. Hell, she was less of a character than she was in MoS.
>>84123191
it was a 3 for me, now is a solid 4
>>84127420
Out of or out of 3?
>>84124720
I said "at best". But I see your point. Personally there are things to like about this movie, its just not enough to give it a applauding score. So 2/5 or 2.5/5? Im just indifferent about it. The length and Lex really kill it for me
Can someone please explain what the fuck was up with the ghost of Pa Kent?
>>84123191
I've been meaning to watch this movie sometime this week
Why does /co/ hate it so much?
>>84126620
I...dont get what youre saying. are saying BvS superman is Fleischer superman?
because while i havent read the early comics, Iive watched those cartoons. Superman in BvS is nothing like cartoon supes, thats just wrong and I want my money back
>>84127478
Some people think it was supposed to be yet another Jesus analogy, like when he prays to God because he has doubts about his destiny or whatever
I've read there was originally going to be another scene where Zod would appear to mock Clark like Satan mocked Jesus, but i don't think i've ever seen any confirmation of that
>>84123311
Checked and agreed.
>>84127521
Depends on who you ask. I personally enjoyed both the Theatrical release and the Ultimate Cut, but both do have some legitimate problems.
>>84127521
You know damn well why, we have this discussion every day
>>84127478
IT DOESN'T MAKE FUCKING SENSE
>>84127151
So, why don´t defend the humans? all the hybrids still in the human side
Mega link?
>>84127151
I recall it was said somewhere that Kryptonians have failsafes in their DNA that discourages cloning because it conflicts with their caste system. And the computer did say mixing genes would result in a abomination. Point is though the entire Doomsday origin is stupid in this movie
>>84127478
It's a story that Pa really should have told this universe's Clark much earlier on.
Like if Clark knew that sometimes, if you save people recklessly, you end up drowning a whole bunch of horses, he might have considered fucking up a bunch of Africa dudes more carefully. Like maybe doing it in such a way that didn't result in horses drowning.
Or he might have taken the wrong lesson and just started trying to divert rivers by hand.
>>84127706
>I recall it was said somewhere that Kryptonians have failsafes in their DNA that discourages cloning because it conflicts with their caste system. And the computer did say mixing genes would result in a abomination. Point is though the entire Doomsday origin is stupid in this movie
They mixed the "Kryptonians don't do cloning because it is taboo due to the clone wars" and "Doomsday is a bioweapon" things to create "Kryptonians don't do cloning because it is taboo due to Doomsday"
I don't know WHY they combined them, but eh
Doomsday is shit so now that they've gotten him out of the way we never have to worry about him again
>>84127661
Seconded. I ain't paying for this shit a second time.
If you liked the theatrical cut your opinion can never have any value or meaning.
I'm interested in hearing from someone who has seen the ultimate cut and actually finds the film to be not worthless garbage now.
It's hard to believe, because Snyder has never done anything that wasn't dog shit, but I'm open to the possibility if someone can explain why.
>>84127378
She worried if her relationship with Superman was a good thing and was mostly used by Lex to get at him.
>>84127903
And what became of that?
>>84127934
Superman made her realize that it was their love that helped him keep going in the darkest moments.
>>84127903
so...Lois is a plot device. great character
>>84127843
meme
>>84127843
But I liked the 2004 Dawn of the Dead......
>>84127962
She did this by drowning herself?
>>84127118
In the expanded scene with Steppenwolf, Lex is sitting in the chamber and it basically looks like after birth.
If the chamber isn't able to clean itself fully that may have been one and done. Any residual DNA would cause another abomination.
>>84127995
It was after, she almost drowned herself at first to help him.
>>84123886
> any medic could easily determine bullets were the cause of death, and Lex still exposed himself by using super-tech bullets to kill a bunch of guerrilla idiots
but that obviously didnt work. The government covered it up, and no medic tried to determine the cause of death. Every villain plot only works because the plot says so.
>>84127843
Don't bother then. I never saw the theatrical version but this one is pretty bad. And if you don't like snyder you will hate this. Its so full of repeated jesus and god analogies that are so heavy handed it will make your eyes roll. It doesnt even have good action to back it up. The BvS fight was fucking terrible
>>84127968
>Lois does things
Shoehorned!
>Lois doesn't do things
Plot device
You can hate any movie if you try hard enough.
The funny thing is that the EC still doesnt explain how Lois knew to get the spear
>>84127970
>asked to defend BvS
>muh...muh...meme
That's Snyderfags for you.
>>84127300
>People were just too stupid to understand it or something.
>there are people who keep using this excuse
It's still a very weak movie, and the additional scenes ironically don't add much. The best additions are scenes about Clark's investigation, because it gives him more agency, but in the end it boils down to him conveniently bumping into people that confirm his bias against Batman, and him once again deciding stuff because other people told him to.
>>84127978
Sorry you have shit taste, anon, but that can be cured in time.
Have you seen the original? As with Watchmen, Snyder remade it with the surface flash but entirely missed the point it was trying to make. The original is worth a watch if you haven't.
>>84128128
The spear hurt Superman, anything with super-powers in the movie is believed to be alien and right after leaving Batman told Superman to go after Lex in the alien Scout Ship.
>>84128098
Luckily BvS makes itself really, really, really easy to hate by being so terrible and poorly made.
>>84128155
>If you liked the theatrical cut your opinion can never have any value or meaning.
Contradicts
>asked to defend BvS
You're a liar. Just kill yourself.
>>84127300
>Show his hands in everything
Thats fucking dumb. "I'll go out of my way to frame Superman, cover my tracks, but leave just enough so people can tell its was me". What is he, fucking Nygma now?
>>84128166
Then why keep people asking about Superman's character arc when it was plainly there in the movie for all to see?
I understand not liking it, but not understanding is a bit hard to forgive.
>>84128218
It's easy to hate high quality things when you have such bad taste.
>>84128166
Obviously Lex was being retarded on purpose, having his hired mercs use super bullets that only his company makes so it can be easily traced back to him.
Everyone was just pretending to be retarded in this movie when they did retarded things. Can't you SEE?
>>84127732
he obviously did tell him it earlier and superman was just remembering it, or did you literally think that was Pa Kent's ghost?
>>84128258
Ah, you're trolling. Good show.
>>84128240
No, he's Lex Luthor.
>>84128262
They weren't super-bullets. Why people keep thinking they're super bullets?
>>84128215
But thats still a leap in logic there. She doesnt know its kryptonian or if they needed the damn thing. Lets not sugarcoat this, the point of the entire thing was to make Lois relevant during the climax. She created the problem, and as a result needed to be a damsel so Clark would also know where the weapon was
>>84128289
>not liking BvS
You're the troll here. Or maybe a casual?
>>84128290
Yeah, that's the problem. He's a mastermind pulling the strings from the shadows and manipulating everyone...but also ensuring that he's easily found?
Riddler leaves clues because he has a mental compulsion. Lex isn't supposed to be like that.
>>84128281
Of course it was Pa Kent's ghost you goon, came straight from the Source to give Clark advice.
Clark's nowhere near advanced for the writing-in-fire the Source usually engages in.
Does it in any way fix the fact that Superman is both a) a mopey, depressive bore and b) not actually superman?
I don't care how good this film might be now, from any standpoint, if they don't fix the Superman part of Batman v Superman, it's still shit.
>>84128197
But the 2004 DotD works in its own way. Its perhaps one of the few decent movies hes ever done
>>84128334
....
>>84128319
Liking BvS is inherently a troll, because it's an opinion no rational person could have in good faith.
BvS was garbage. If you liked it, you are garbage.
>>84128331
Lex want to show his superiority.
>>84128290
In name only
>>84128351
Considering he spends zero time in space being a dick to aliens and having fun science experiments, I'd argue that no movie Superman has ever been a "actually Superman"
Stupid fucking Donner/Snyder and their christ fetish, ruining the adventurer part of Superman.
>>84128314
Because they were.
They're cutting-edge military-grade weaponry never before seen on an actual battlefield, made from a synthetic metal that only LexCorp uses, that provides extra piercing action.
They're super-bullets.
>>84128314
It's just an expression, dumbass.
They're "super bullets" in that they're some kind of special unique bullet that only Lex makes. They say this in the movie. So why the fuck did he arm these mercs with special bullets that only he makes when it's supposed to be a secret that they're working for him?
He might as well have just had them wear the LexCorp logo.
>>84128365
I know what youre doing, stop that
>>84128358
Only autists or retards didn't like BvS, hence the score. It was a great masterpiece that only idiots couldn't enjoy. Just end yourself for having such bad taste.
Who do you think is more intelligent, the person who could appreciate art for what it is, or the idiot who was too confused to even know what was going on in a simple film?
>>84128365
By fucking up?
>>84128423
This, they should have stuck to A/Z
>>84128351
How is he not Superman? Superman has changed throughout the ages. What is even Superman? Your head-canon?
Because in the movie he cared for people, he saved lives, he felt guilt and shame over not saving certain lives, he sacrificed his own life for others.
That's pretty Superman-y for me.
Is the fact that he wasn't a cocky socialist hero? Or a whimsy tormentor with the power of a God? Or a worried government stooge? Or a conflicted idealist hero?
>>84128254
Asking about something that was poorly done doesn't make someone stupid. asking rhetorically to point out the flaw also doesn't make them stupid. Asking in general doesn't make someone stupid. Not getting why they ask, that does make you stupid.
>>84128381
No, in action too.
>>84128423
>Only autists or retards didn't like BvS, hence the score.
>27%
>everyone is autistic and retarded but me!
You're on the cusp of learning something pretty sad about yourself, anon.
Everyone else doesn't have the problems tying shoes and opening doors that you have.
>>84125349
I've seen plenty of the evidence to the contrary on /co/.
>>84128482
Whimsy tormentor is my favourite Superman, but I'm pretty fond of square-jawed crime puncher and WHAT AM I FIGHTING FOOOOOR Superman
Post-crisis Superman can eat a fucking dick though
>>84128515
But is something easy that's there in the movie. You just have to watch the movie and you'll see.
Everything about Wonder Woman was and still is 10/10
>>84128482
>Because in the movie he cared for people
Nope. He was a mopey non-entity who stared down impassively at humanity as a distant alient god.
That ain't Supes, and that's why audiences rejected this.
>>84128544
Nah. They're trolls. No one actually liked BvS.
It's not a possible opinion to have.
>>84125853
In the US, most of us are conditioned by school grades that anything from 0-50% is too horrible a failure to acknowledge and the scale that actually matters starts at 51. But even then you need at least a 70% to get a C so everything below that is STILL horrible. It's a lot easier for people to use a full scale when it's X/5 but the second you put it in 10s suddenly school reflex kicks in.
>>84128565
Yeah, that's why he saved so many people. Didn't care at all!
>>84128565
>He was a mopey non-entity who stared down impassively at humanity as a distant alient god.
ONE.FUCKING.SCENE!
God fucking dammnit. Just admit you just watched the trailer.
>>84128565
Audiences rejected it because it was a fucken turd, anon. Not because of brand loyalty to your headcanon.
>>84128528
That's not right, I'm sure his parents have kept this dark secret from him for a reason!
>>84128555
We've seen it. It's not there.
Snyder doesn't do character development. Or anything, really.
It's better, but not waaaay better. The Snyder-things are still shit, like Luthor, Doomsday, Supes death, and Bat of Murder. Bumped from 5/10 to 7/10 to me.
>>84128564
>Flat delivery
>Shoehorned role
>Ragequit humanity after WWII and spent over 100 years just dicking around the world as a rich socialite
Nah.
The fight movies and theme song were good, tho.
>>84128619
>We've seen it. It's not there.
It is there. Do you want me to explain the obvious character arc?
>>84128600
Just admit you have shit taste.>>84128604
>>84128482
Still closer to nighthawk and Hyperion
>>84128604
Part of it being a turd was getting Superman and Batman so wrong as characters.
This was attested to over and over again.
The things in BvS weren't Superman or Batman. Audiences rejected whatever they were supposed to be.
>>84128528
>thinking critics are super geniuses
lel
Critics are some of the most retarded people on earth, but of course someone like you would look up to them. You're the one too stupid to understand a movie. Can't read books either? I mean, that would explain why you couldn't read any comics. Just stay in the basement, no one wants you outside anyway. You're a waste of space.
>>84128643
Why should admit something to a retard that just watched the trailer and talk about things like "He's not real Superman" as if there was a real concise take on such a character.
>>84128664
>Part of it being a turd was getting Superman and Batman so wrong as characters.
They were pretty Superman and Batman to me.
Critics hated the movie because it wasn't fun and didn't had levity.
>>84128641
>it's so obvious i have to give you this long fan theory to explain it
>MARTHA totally makes sense if you read this thirty page explanation its obvious
I love how Snyder's defense always circle back to the same tired arguments "IT WAS HIS FIRST DAY", "This happened in a panel in a comic in 1973, so IT'S AS VALID AS ANYTHING ELSE" and my personal favorite "IT'S A DECONSTRUCTION".
>>84128700
So you're baiting.
>>84128700
Or you could just watch the movie and find out yourself. But wait, that's too hard isn't it?
>>84128675
>cant actually articulate any argument about Superman's characterization
>y...y...you just watched the trailer
>>84128668
>critics are the real retards
>im the actual genius my mom said so
>>84128699
>They were pretty Superman and Batman to me.
Yes, and you're wrong and a bad person for being so wrong.
Luckily everyone else disagrees with your shit opinions. Sure, the critics panned it because it was just 2DARK2DEEP
What's next, Disney bribed everyone?
>>84128734
I can, but for what? According to this anon >>84128700 anything i say will just be brushed off as fan theory. So why should i even try? Specially when it was there in the movie. If people were being honest they could just watch it.
>>84128734
>blatantly lie as an "argument"
>expect someone to rebutt a lie?
You're retarded.
>>84128728
The only people baiting are those expressing positive opinions about BvS.
>>84128812
OK then.
>>84128790
>doesn't read comics
>but MY version of Superman and Batman are the REAL versions
>>84128801
>>84128799
This is a pretty sad way to say, "I don't have anything to back up Superman having a character arc in the movie except saying so over and over again."
Why spend so much energy desperately trying to defend this valueless shit? Your fanboy delusion runs deep.
>>84128849
Anyone who actually read the comics knows why the movie was so wrong.
>>84128842
No one actually likes the movie. There are only three types who say they do:
1. Trolls trying to stir up shit
2. Fanboys mindlessly defending their obsession
3. Contrarians
All 3 are operating in bad faith. Expressing an opinion in bad faith is the definition of trolling.
Therefore, expressing a positive opinion about BvS is trolling.
It's objectively a much better and more coherent film but it still has a fuck tonne of problems.
>Knightmare sequence still comes out of absolutely nowhere and is never mentioned again
>Cameos.avi are still in a really shitty tension breaking spot
>Superman is still basically his mopey pre-MoS self
>Batman killing left and right
>Lex is still fucking terrible
>World's greatest detective get's played like a bitch
>The reason for their fight wasn't ideologically based but because Batman was tricked and Superman was blackmailed
>>84128901
Anyone who has read the comics know how big of an impact Superman has on Batman's life and how different it would be if Superman would come later in Batman's career.
>>84128967
I'm sure that there are people who genuinely like it and that's fine, but there are definitely a ton of those you listed, particularly contrarians. They just hate Marvel because "normies" or casuals or something and want something to rub in their face.
>>84128863
OK, fine.
Superman in the movie was trying to help the best he could while not interfering too much and keep himself out of political crisis, something that was mentioned during the news and interviews segments, but then Lex managed to complicate him one using Lois as a bait finally giving the senate something they could use to nail Superman's ass.
Superman in all this was feeling overwhelmed and angry, not only with others for all the persecution and twisting, but with himself thanks to his inability and powerlessness.
Batman presence only made his feelings worse, because he was a vigilante doing whatever the hell he wanted and hurting for real normal people, while the media and government gave lip service to the case. Superman felt that the whole deal wasn't far. Why treat him like shit when this guy was doing way worse and nobody cared?
Because of all of this he started to become more and more attached to Lois, the only person who could understand and make him feel at ease. Lois was becoming his whole world away from the real world.
This worried Lois, who wondered if their relationship was keeping Clark from being Superman, specially at such time when things were getting so complicated for him, but Superman was at such a point where he was even doubting if being Superman mattered..
When Lex started to gun for Lois and his mother, Superman finally realized that he couldn't simple shut the real world out. Things didn't worked like that. Not only Lois and his mother needed Superman, but the whole world as well.
So it was thanks to Lois love that he felt the strength to keep going despite everything. Lois and his mother love and his love for them made him love everyone else as well, as love himself as Superman too.
>>84128967
No one actually dislikes this movie. There are only three types who say they do:
1. Trolls
2. Company war fanboys
3. Retards who couldn't understand the movie.
All 3 are operating in bad faith.
>>84129228
But whatever, this is all just a fan theory and i'm baiting or whatever.
So i know that my post will be ignored and laughed at.
>>84129255
>be me
>don't really like movie
>am not troll
>am DC fanboy
>literally reading every DC on-going and only 1 Marvel book
>understood movie perfectly well before this cut
The problem is that large parts of the movie are fucking stupid and Snyder doesn't understand the characters themselves at all.
>>84128517
No you twat, you are wrong.
>>84129364
I honestly don't understand what was so bad about the characters in the movie other than superficial complaints like Superman not smiling enough.
Does Superman spend literally any amount of time looking for his mom?
Does Superman try more than twice to reason with Batman?
Is Lex's plan any less retarded?
Does Wonder Woman have any real reason for getting involved in any way before the Doomsday fight?
Does Doomsday not look like shit?
Does Lois not throw the spear away?
Does Wonder Woman kill Doomsday instead of Supes sacrificing himself for no reason?
Does the movie not spend about a full minute showing us the senator slowly turn a piss jar?
Does the Superman vs Batman fight end in a way that isn't completely retarded?
If the answer to all of these questions is "No" then the movie is still shit.
>>84129255
I understood it perfectly and it was still retarded. Snyder doesn't even read any comics besides the shit DC recommends to him. Y'know, entry level shit like Death of Superman and Dark Knight Returns.
He's a casual. He's not the guy they need to make these things work.
>>84129404
If you think details like that are merely superficial, you'll never understand the problem.
Superman should be a symbol of hope, not Distant Alien Jesus*.
*Did you catch that? How Supes was Jesus? It was really subtle so Snyder had to hit you over the head with it again and again.
>>84129228
>>84129264
What were you thinking actually giving a proper response? They never look at those and just abandon the thread instead. The way to counter it, though, is to save it and copypaste it whenever anyone asks.
>>84129511
Yeah, fuck me, right? But the anon wouldn't stop pressuring to explain the obvious. So at least i can stop feeling bad about that.
>>84129455
The problem is you can't START with The Dark Knight Returns or the Death of Superman.
TDKR was so powerful because it was built on decades of Batman-Superman history. The characters and their relationship were so well established that it was shocking and deeply affecting to see them fight.
Same with DOS. After decades it was a big blow to see the Man of Steel actually fail.
Snyder didn't understand that. We've just been introduced to this new universe. There hasn't been time for emotional connections, and the characters themselves barely have any relationships with each other.
So just aping TDKR and DOS without the history and emotion strips them of their power. Who cares if this Batman and Superman fight? They're not old comrades, they literally just met. It's meaningless.
Superman is barely around so far, his death doesn't really have an impact on the audience.
On top of that, it was stupid to jam these two stories together, which just ends up truncating and damaging both of them. Save the DOS for later.
>>84129404
Superman is fundamentally a character that's essentially just a good guy with super powers that inspires hope.
Instead of building off of the way his character ended MoS
>Welcome to the Planet
>smiling
>Happy to be here
He's reverted back into a sullen, distant jerk.
Superman should enjoy being a hero, Superman loves helping people more than anything. He shouldn't be moping around being sad that some people hate him. He should be constantly talking to people, inspiring them by how much of a good guy he is.
>While smiling
>It doesn't matter what anybody thinks Lois
>even bigger smile
>I just wanna help as many people as I can
The Batman/Superman dynamic doesn't work when they're both dark, brooding, mopey, distant characters.
>>84123191
6 to a 7 for me
>>84129455
>like Death of Superman and Dark Knight Returns.
and even then he missed the meaning/point of those stories. They only matter because of the history behind them, starting with TDKR and DoS is beyond retarded.
>>84129590
>While smiling
>It doesn't matter what anybody thinks Lois
>even bigger smile
>I just wanna help as many people as I can
What should he do with his guilt and sense of powerlessness or should he not even feel them at all?
>>84129570
I mean, it's nice you wrote out your thoughts but that doesn't make them right. The movie just doesn't support what you wrote. You're filling in the holes left by the film to produce a coherent narrative that isn't there.
It's like the people who write walls of text justifying "MARTHA" and how it's PTSD and blabh blah blah when no, it's just shit writing. You can spin your own ideas to make it work, but in the actual film it didn't.
>>84129646
He should want to help even more people to make up for his failings in the past.
>>84129667
>I mean, it's nice you wrote out your thoughts but that doesn't make them right. The movie just doesn't support what you wrote.
Fuck you.
I actually enjoyed that.
I would gladly watch the 4hr version if and only if it improved the movie.
>>84129646
>sense of powerlessness
At no point in this movie should he have felt powerless, he should have felt fucking stupid because there was nothing in this movie he couldn't have prevented except for maybe the wheelchair bomb.
>>84129646
>What should he do with his guilt and sense of powerlessness or should he not even feel them at all?
He shouldn't feel them at all. The other anon is right:
>Superman should enjoy being a hero, Superman loves helping people more than anything. He shouldn't be moping around being sad that some people hate him. He should be constantly talking to people, inspiring them by how much of a good guy he is.
Superman doesn't sit around wallowing in self-pity feeling guilty and powerless. He perseveres and pushes on with a positive attitude.
Thinking otherwise completely misunderstands the character, and the appeal of the character.
>>84129667
>The movie just doesn't support what you wrote.
Go ahead and counter them using evidence from the movie. This should be fun.
>>84129646
This is addressed in Garth Ennis's Hitman iirc.
Superman feels constant guilt and fear that despite all his power, he'll never be able to help enough. That's exactly why instead of moping around questioning the point of it all, he gives it his all every single day.
>>84129727
>Superman doesn't sit around wallowing in self-pity feeling guilty and powerless. He perseveres and pushes on with a positive attitude.
What about all the comics where he did, like Kingdom Come?
Y'know why even the worst Marvel movies have been better than BvS? Because Marvel has plans, Marvel has structure, they're organized, they know what they're doing and they have people running the ship. They have story groups made up of comic book writers who actually have experience with these characters and filmmakers that know how to bring them to life.
The DCEU only exists because WB wanted to cash in on the MCU. That doesn't mean that it's bad or that it has to be bad, but it wasn't born out of any creative impetus, like the MCU was in the beginning. It was made to make money, that was their priority. If the movies are good, it's a happy accident.
>>84129686
Concise and articulate. I like it.
Not really a rebuttal, but it works. You might start by addressing this anon's excellent point:
>Instead of building off of the way his character ended MoS
>Welcome to the Planet
>smiling
>Happy to be here
>He's reverted back into a sullen, distant jerk.
His "character arc" (or lack thereof) depends on resetting the character arc from MoS.
>>84129708
>except for maybe the wheelchair bomb.
and even then he shouldn't have been mopey about it. Sad about it yes, he's sad that he couldn't save everyone, but he doesn't get over that sadness by going on a fucking mountain hike to hear about drowning horses. He gets over it by being Superman.
He bares our sadness and burdens, and he does it gladly with a smile on his face.
>>84129777
>
Kingdom Come was so powerful precisely because it presented a vastly different Superman than normal.
That was a Superman who was broken and beaten down by age and a changing world. The world had passed KC Supes by and given rise to a new breed of "heroes" he barely recognized as such.
A big part of Kingdom Come's story was Superman getting out of this funk and going back to the man he used to be, a man full of hope and optimism for the future.
>>84129777
>Kingdom Come
Which is a Elsewords story that has meaning precisely because it's characters are so different.
>>84129786
Because the situation build on the Metropolis attack, with the media not letting that go and constantly questioning his actions or motives, with people like Lex twisting everything he did to fuck him over.
That's why he stopped smiling very fast.
>>84129827
I like how someone blew up the Capitol Building and the entire fucking Congress and instead of trying to help or investigate he just leaves to mope and brood.
>>84129847
Aren't they all Elseworlds and Imaginary Tales? What is canon even? Post-Crisis continuity isn't canon anymore. It was regarded as another Elseworlds.
Link?
>>84129851
He was smiling after the Metropolis attack. He had made peace with himself and who he was.
Maybe the movie was driving at what you suggest, but it sure didn't establish it in the film.
>>84129874
>Post-Crisis continuity isn't canon anymore.
Someone hasn't been reading Rebirth.
>>84129847
All comic book movies are Elseworlds though. Same characters, different situations which make them slightly different. Still keeps the core of their character.
Movie still fucking sucks. Snyder needs to be fired.
>>84129837
BvS is about Superman being broken and beaten, with the world constantly twisting his actions and Superman feeling the world is constantly changing beneath his feet. Superman also found a breed of heroes that was very much the kind of extreme the media accused him of, but that nobody gave a crap about.
The movie also ended with Superman getting out of this funk and going back to being the man he promised himself he'd be, a man of hope and optimism ready to give his own life for others.
>>84129874
Come on anon, this is just sad pedantry.
What was meant is that Kingdom Come was different from how Superman was normally presented, how people had generally come to understand him. That's why it works.
Pointing to one work designed specifically to be different than the usual version undercuts your own point. This isn't the Supes people usually know, wallowing in self pity.
>>84129851
>the media not letting that go and constantly questioning his actions or motives, with people like Lex twisting everything he did to fuck him over.
and the way Superman should combat this is by never giving up. When people push Superman down he doesn't stay face down in the mud wallowing in self pity. He gets the fuck back up.
>>84129917
>Still keeps the core of their character.
But BvS objectively doesn't keep the core of the characters.
>>84129978
In Kingdom Come Superman fucking retired in his butthurt, dude.
>>84123886
bumped it down from a 10 to a 9.8 for me
too many unnecessary scenes explaining shit for retards and casuals
>>84129978
You mean like how Superman found another way by convincing Batman to help him find his mother, instead of killing him?
>>84129969
Everything comic is designed to be something different. Superman is constantly changing.
He was one way in the Golden Age, another way in the Silver Age, another again in the Bronze Age, another once more in the Dark Age. Even in the Post-Crisis continuity his origin and behavior kept changing. Nu52 Superman changed as well.
>>84129998
KC Superman was a metaphor for Mark Waid and Alex Ross's butthurt about the Dark Age
>>84129992
How? And what are the core aspects of Superman and Batman's character?
>>84130030
See
>>84129917
>>84129936
Superman in BvS at least didn't retired for years.
>>84129936
>BvS is about Superman being broken and beaten,
Nope.
It's too soon for that. Superman just appeared in the world, what, less than a year before the film? Kingdom Come was set far in the future, building on decades of history.
As noted above, it's why the aping of TDKR fails: the film universe hasn't created a history for Batman and Superman so their fighting is robbed of emotional resonance and power.
You can't just hit fast forward on these things and tell people to care. It's absurd to try to portray a character who is almost brand new new as ground down and beaten.
The film fails in so many ways, and these kind of emotional and narrative cheats are some of the biggest.
>>84123337
Can't you just give a pile of shit instead? It's worth more than pounds.
>>84127012
kek
>>84130079
If you have to ask you've already failed.
>>84130111
Superman was beaten and broken by circumstances, not age. Still doesn't change shit.
>>84130090
>Superman in BvS at least didn't retired for years.
He didn't get a chance to, having died.
>>84130138
I know what the core aspects of Batman and Superman's character are. That's why I can appreciate BvS. Your non-answer shows me that you clearly don't.
>>84130161
He could have packed his shit and go, like KC Superman did. But he didn't.
>>84130146
It changes everything.
We've reached the end here. If you can't understand why attempting to compress these stories that depend on history and emotion for their power to force audiences to care, there's nothing more to talk about.
That's the mistake Snyder made, and it failed miserably.
>>84130183
This understanding of Kingdom Come is so juvenile it's hard to believe it's being made in good faith.
>>84130189
Characters can be beaten and broken and doubt their mission in one movie without needing like, 4 to 8 movies for that moment to finally happen.
>>84130167
Me and audiences everywhere who soundly rejected these versions of the characters, I guess.
