![4537119-1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/PW8Wvxk.jpg "4537119-1[1].jpg")
how the fuck does the joker ever even get any hits on batman? from what i can tell, the joker was just a failed comedian turned insane, fighting a dude with a complete mastery of all martian arts. there should be no fight at all. i get that he can take hostages and shit, which may prevent batman from getting him, but whenever he and the joker duke it out 1v1, joker always gets some shots in. he should be taken out with extreme ease
>>83906889
I think it's kinda like how Taskmaster has a hard time with Deadpool. I think the Joker is supposed to come off as too insane and unpredictable to really anticipate, allowing him to get some lucky shots in.
Plus he's been sandbagging the whole time. He's REALLY patient.
>>83906993
Sometimes I wonder if comicbook writers just stop for a second and go "No, this wouldn't fool a ten year old."
It doesn't make sense and you're spending more time thinking about it than the writers.
>>83906889
Punching and stabbing each other is how they have sex, anon.
>>83906889
Bad writing.
Batman is a trained martial artists and fighter. Joker is just crazy. Any legit fight should end up with Joker unconscious in seconds.
>>83906993
Deadpool's also a trained assassin.
>>83907119
so, like, any time at all? he should be the weakest and easiest to defeat out of all batman's enemies. like, he can take out killer croc or fucking deadshot quicker than the joker
>>83906889
>>83907102
>>83907119
>>83907164
In comic books, InSaNiTy trumps martial arts everytime, why is this so difficult to comprehend?
>>83906889
How totally original and never seen before
>>83907164
Some writers do portray him as a shitty fighter, with the conflict being if Batman can actually CATCH him.
But the times he's a match for Batman are typically because he's god an insanely high pain tolerance, has a fighting style so weird that even Cassandra Cain once got sick just looking at him move, and being surprisingly fast.
>>83907219
Ideally you prevent it from being a physical fight most of the story and it should be a one punch knockout thrown in at the end instead of some legitimate fight.
>>83907240
welcome
>>83907219
>so, like, any time at all? he should be the weakest and easiest to defeat out of all batman's enemies.
Come on Anon, you're ignoring Penguin, Two-Face, and Riddler.
>>83906889
He can hit fucking midnighter.
>>83906889
All we know is the Joker fell into a vat of chemicals, anything else is just speculation. And in New 52 he was the criminal mastermind if the red hood gang
>>83907286
i was literally thinking of two face when i wrote that. i could buy the riddler as being an okay fighter, with him being super smart and all, giving him some "sherlock holmes vision" or something, and penguin has his umbrella, which could pose a threat too
>>83906889
The Joker is actually a very tallented fighter, who relies on speed (bats comments occasionally how even he underestimates how fast he his), dirty tricks, and weaponry to even the odds against a better trained and physically stronger fighter. Batman always wins in a straight up fist fight, but Joker always has something up his sleeve.
>>83906889
There's three Jokers so maybe the Endgame one was actually a good fighter before becoming the Joker.
Between a life of crime and being in and out of prisons/asylums, Joker can gain plenty of experience in real-world fighting, which martial arts often aren't particularly great at. Most systems are still very back-and-forth, tournament-style, until you get into shit like Krav Maga. Lots of particularly technical moves can also be pretty easy to read coming. Even with a trained martial artist versus as street hood, you can expect a few shots to land.
>Whoa, his fighting style is so unpredictable because he's so craaaazy!
Kill me.
Keep in mind Joker can fend off heroes well above Batman's power level
Booster Gold found that out the hard way.
>>83907223
Because it's retarded.
>>83907240
>H-He's fast!
>>83907503
It's comics
>>83907246
>and being surprisingly fast.
In the DKR the Joker has a very fast reaction.
>>83907458
>writers keep writing Joker as CUH-RAY-ZAAAAAY WOOO HOW UNPREDICTABLE WHOA
While reading The Last Crusade, it made me realize how I absolutely loathe how obnoxious Joker has become. TLC was probably the best and most tolerable Joker I've read in forever.
>>83907531
>It's bad comics.
ftfy
Him being fast at least make some sense, though that still wouldn't be enough to push a guy who literally has mastery over every martial art to his limits.
because he's a fictional character whose fighting prowess entirely depends on who's writing him.
>>83907455
accurate depiction of bats vs joker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVuWvPg_bKo
>>83907498
What happened?
>>83907627
Booster Gold?
He kept going back in time to stop Joker from shooting Barbara but Joker beat the crap out of him.
>>83907601
No it's just comics
This is the same man who taught a gorilla Warfare
>>83907569
It's really depressing how they had to bring back in the businness a 60 yo on the verge of death for us to have a good Batman story again.
>>83906889
>complete mastery of all martian arts
>martian arts
>>83906993
But that was fucking retarded and remains retarded when applied to Batman in sheer speed and physical ability Joker should never be able to hit Batman
Taskmaster's does not rely on knowing someone's fighting style to beat them otherwise he would not be able to beat anyone he hadn't seen before.
>>83907627
Rekt across space and time
>>83906993
>too insane and unpredictable
That reasoning doesn't make sense. Unpredictable bullshit doesn't yield advantageous stances. Supposedly "skilled" fighters should be able to capitalize on the multitude of openings that a flailing doofus would present, unless they're just too slow to react.
>>83907699
that was literally DA UNIVERSE fucking his ass though
>>83907655
.... Why the fuck have Joker and this monkey never teamed up with Monsieur Mallah and the Brain?
>>83907699
god, Johns is such a fanboy jerkoff faggot
>>83907699
That was solidified time beating him not the Joker
>>83907745
>Johns cares about Batman shit
This is new for /co/ to say
>>83907655
>No it's just comics
No it's not you fucking scrub, if you think that's how Joker has always been written you know jackshit.
BTAS, Kane and Finger, Burton and even the Adam West show had him unable to pose a serious threat to Batman physically, he had to use weapons to even hope to hurt him in a fight, it's only in the last decades that he has become a fighter because writers are unable to write shit that isn't action anymore.
>>83907652
That wasn't the Joker's ability so much as it was hardened time preventing him from making things happen differently.
I blame all my hatred for the Joker on this movie. I don't want to sound like I'm mad that people like things that I like, but I honestly am not a huge DC fan.
Everyone thought this performance was SOOOOOO amazing, and it was. Definitely a new take on the Joker, but like ok now let's move the fuck on. If he never died, I seriously think this "too crazy for batman" wouldn't be the standard now
>>83906889
>extreme mastery of all martian arts
>martian arts
Christ I feel stupid for laughing so hard at this.
>>83907693
/r/ing a picture of batman painting a portrait of the Martian Manhunter
>b-b-but the joker's pretty fast guys!
>batman kicking supe's ass several times over
>>83907816
Well, that or the writers lack the creativity required to do their own take on the character.
>>83907692
jesus fuck where's that pic from? I'm terrified
>>83907938
It's the Joker in the live-action version of the "Blue Beetle and his chums" show.
>>83907938
The Tonight Show with Jay Leno
>>83907655
PUT THAT SHIT ON THE COVER
THE KIDS LOVE THE MONKEYS
Because then a man in clown makeup would be no threat to batman. The biggest problem with joker is they scaled him down instead of up. Instead of making him a deranged murder clown boogeyman, the writers shouldve gone back to gang leader joker and gave him a psuedo joker family to combat Batman's growing number of allys and ever increasing super tech. Joker needs an upgrade
>>83907785
I don't know how enamored he is with the batman lore, but this reads like fanfiction written by an edgemaster teenager who only has superficial understanding of Moore's work.
Which perfectly explains Rebirth, really
>>83907938
BIIIG BAAAD BEETLEBORGS
>>83907498
But that's even dumber.
>>83908076
>Joker needs an upgrade
Immortal god of chaos that can outfight top martial artists isn't enough of an upgrade?
>>83908091
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that stuff is scary
>>83907498
>Booster Gold
>The guy who had to pay off villains to throw the fight so he could look like a hero
>Above Batman's power level
>>83908116
should have matched his wit, not his muscle.
>>83906889
Sometimes you just let your girlfriend win to make them feel loved.
>>83906993
Deadpool is a skilled fighter, he's skilled enough to bring the fight into the meta-game as it were, this is where he is able to beat task master, in terms of the strategy, he sees openings and strategies that a reasonable man like task master could not. He's not random, he's unorthodox.
>>83906889
The problem is that writers forget that the reason the Joker is threatening is because of his plans and weapons. His plans are effective until a hero catches him, at that point he has to rely on death traps he set up and the like (in other words, prep time).
But writers want to have him fight one-on-one with Batman, even though it makes no fucking sense.
It becomes even worse when he fights characters other than Batman, they have to come up with the biggest contrivances for him to pose a threat. And it becomes EVEN WORSE when they have other villains, even superhumans, talk about how much the Joker scares them.
It's an example of letting out-of-universe popularity dictate the story even if it makes no sense.
>>83906889
That's just the thing. We have no idea what the Joker's background is. That whole scene from Killing Joke was probably him imagining the whole thing. He doesn't even know his origin. As far as we know he could have even trained with Bruce before he went completely insane.
>>83906889
Maybe you should read the damn comic, it pretty much states why through words.
>>83907498
>Keep in mind there have been comics even more retarded.
>>83908076
>Joker needs an upgrade
You mean like that time Spectre tried to judge him, but Joker is so crazy that he stole Spectre's powers and became the right hand of God?
>>83907714
Yeah, if your enemy is being unpredictable, it means he's not doing the moves you'd expect him to do, meaning he is not doing the moves that would prove most advantegous, meaning he is doing inefficient attacks and leaving himself open.
Perfect example of the Joker, the Joker Fish. He poisons Gothams fish to resemble him so he can get copyright royalties.
>>83908203
Except in their fight he specifically moved in random ways to beat out Tasky's "photographic muscle memory."
>>83908088
The point was that Booster couldn't change events that had solidified in history or time itself would stop him.
>>83908226
>average moorefag
>it's deeper than face value, guys! alan moore leaves it up to the reader's interpretation on what really happened!
this is the reason i hate alan moore
The Joker is literally an agent of chaos. Maybe supernatural.
>>83906889
If I were a writer, I'd justify it in a few ways:
-Joker has years of experience in fighting
-Joker's broken mind lets him push his body faster than a person should be, harming himself in the process. Like how Taskmaster could recreate martial arts watched sped-up on VHS
-He can ignore pain and strain
-He's smart and very capable when it comes to planning and tactics. This could justify why bigger power-level villains invite him to their schemes and shit, like why Batman is invited
>>83908374
>hating something because of its fans
>>83908394
If I were a writer I'd just avoid him getting into fights like this altogether. The Joker is more threatening as a puppet mastre using death traps, bombs and weapons. Once he's within punching range of a hero, he should go down immediately.
>>83908374
>I want to be treated like a child and have everything explained to me.
The fact that the Joker's past is a mystery is what makes him a good character and scary as shit. Also, interpretation leaves room for everyone to have a different take away from a story that can be discussed.
>>83907240
Speedforce Joker when?
>>83906889
>from what i can tell, the joker was just a failed comedian turned insane
You see, the point is that you can't tell that.
>>83908438
Then you're an idiot. he should be threatening and should be able to put down people with knives. He shouldn't be ultra competent in a fight but he should be fast and crazy enough that he can somewhat ignore pain and take a punch to the face while stabbing you. And sneaky, he should lunge at you with his knives while you've been beaten and exhausted. Making him just a planner is a waste and not what Joker is.
>>83908484
Somebody tweet Johns
>>83906889
In that very scene in your OP, Joker claimed that he'd never really gone all out fighting Batman, but now he was done holding back, and Bruce's internal monologue confirmed this.
I fucking hate Snyder's Batman run.
>>83908525
He should be a threatening fighter, but not against Batman or any other hero, unless as you said Batman is beaten and exhausted.
>>83908588
yeah, only threatening to robins.
>>83908588
This, he should be able to tangle with anyone short of a special forces operative
>>83908525
>Then you're an idiot
Not him, but you're the retard here.
>Making him just a planner is a waste and not what Joker is.
It's what the Joker has been for decades.
Go to sleep, you have school tomorrow.
>>83908440
joker's past isnt a mystery. it was explained in the killing joke. it's not like the joker ever even told batman his origin ever, it was done in a flashback that only the reader could see. so it wasnt "up to interpretation" at all. also, having the chemical plant being next to a playing card factory was some of the most cringeworthy writing ever. like, he just HAD to throw that connection in there, as if it had jack shit to do with him losing his mind
>>83908637
No anon, that was Joker remember, that's why the scenes were triggered by the Joker looking at something. Clearly this was a scene unfolding in his mind. Which he later reveals to be completely faulty.
>>83908776
>was the Joker remembering*
God I'm fucking tired.
>>83908588
>unless as you said Batman is beaten and exhausted.
So...you agree 100% with what I said
>>83908345
Right but this was on the strategic level. He was still one step ahead.
>>83907694
>Taskmaster's does not rely on knowing someone's fighting style to beat them otherwise he would not be able to beat anyone he hadn't seen before.
But that's exactly how Taskmaster fights retard. He watches videos of someone or watches them fight someone else on the field.
>>83906889
reminder that joker somehow managed to catch deathstroke off guard
>>83906889
Learn to type, you spazz.
It's almost like they've told every Batman story worth telling and are now just pumping out story after story, even though it's getting more and more ridiculous
When Batman was starting out, he was less trained, and also most early Batman stories have Batman beat the Joker pretty handily. Now every thing is super epic. Batman is the world's greatest ninja and has 12 auto-driving Batmobiles and Batrobots, and the Joker is a cutter
>>83907286
It's been established for a long time that the Penguin and Two-Face are pretty good hand-to-hand combatants who are especially dangerous in a fight because they're both trained and skilled with firearms.
>>83908076
>Because then a man in clown makeup would be no threat to batman.
God thing he barely register any pain, has poisoned blood, it's inmune to mind attacks, has low tier regeneration, it's inmune to most toxins, and has hardened bones due all the fractures.
>>83906889
The same reason why everyone in capeshit will never die: plot armor.
>>83909180
Midnighter can read him either.
Joker isnt just a "crazy" guy, the chemical bath did something to his brain is a better explenation that just "the guy is lucky"
>>83908091
METALLICS!
>>83906889
Because Batman is trash.
>>83908088
>I don't know how enamored he is with the batman lore
Let me save you some trouble. He's not. Its a bit of a meme that he hates Batman.
>>83907699
That is fucking retarded since Booster Gold has legit superstrength and durability when he is wearing his armor. Honestly Joker is cancer.
>>83909854
As has been said earlier in the thread, think of that less add the Joker, and more as time itself trekking him "Some things can't be changed!"
ITT: People who don't know about the Thing Behind the Mirrors
>>83907289
He had replaced the actual Mastermind sometime beforehand, at an unknown point in time.
Additionally, three jokers means three possible origins
>>83907805
Why bring up the shows when my argument is specifically that comics are dumb?
>>83908326
That was a stupid episode.
>>83908045
>Publishers believed that placing a gorilla on a comic book cover, regardless of the context or relevance, would automatically correspond with an increase in sales for that title; Irwin Donenfeld was the first to notice this trend.[4] The claim eventually became self-fulfilling as certain comic book collectors with an eye for "oddball" comics, would single out these issues, and purchase them for their collections.
>Due to the first rumor, it is also reported that DC Comics was worried about abusing the winning formula, so had an unwritten rule that there could be no more than one gorilla cover per month across all of its titles (except, of course, during the occasional "gorilla month").[5]}
Gorilla Month 2k16 fucking when
>>83907219
>>83907286
I'd say the Mad Hatter is Batman's weakest foe in an actual fight.
>>83910685
The Ventriloquist?
>>83910639
They can start up September gimmick month again with gorillas
>>83910625
>That was a brilliant episode.
ftfy
>>83907246
Sounds cool, what issue?
>>83910685
Batman's weakest foe is obviously the inside of Robin's asshole
>>83910777
I actually really dug September gimmicks, and would love to see them come back
>>83906889
Even more pathetic is when Mr. Zsasz is portrayed as posing a threat to Batman, or that time he almost killed Damian.
>>83910532
The 'three Jokers' are just three different persons being possessed by the Joker Entity.
>>83906889
I heard one writer describe Joker's fighting style as akin to a meth addict
yea a meth addict looks like a pathetic piece of shit, but they're pathetic appearance hides cagey vicious little fuckers who have enough speed to blitz someone hard if they get lucky
this doesn't even count all the dirty tricks Joker typically pulls
>>83908792
According to that last time he and Batman fought...he's like Pennywise. He's been around since Gotham was hewn from the mud, or something like that. Is he connected to the Lovecraftian thing that Gotham is claimed to be built over?
>>83909656
Anybody else not liking cockney accent Penguin from the games?
>>83906889
>Not understanding that there are three Jokers
Do you even Rebirth?
>>83906889
If you spent years and years regularly fighting batman you would pick up a thing or two as well.
>>83907102
>taking a comic about a furry punching a clown this seriously
>>83906889
Because he's the villain-sue to Batman's marty-sue.
>>83908238
What?
>>83908394
If he can plan anything in advance then he's not insane and should be put to death. Crazy people don't have control over their actions.
>>83907223
This
It's like the drunken martial arts style can beat a practiced style.
>>83908776
Joker good at sex confirmed. Batman, rape him.
>>83914570
That's just sick. You think I want Batman to rape The Joker because he hangs a mean dong? That, sir, is sodomy; that is illegal in Gotham City, and I will bring you before the courts if you ever speak that kind of filth to me again.
>>83908525
You're the retard. The only criminals who use knives are the ones who don't have guns, you fucking moron. There is no reason for him to use knives if he is armed to the teeth. And also, "just" a planner is exactly what the Joker is, only stupid fanboys want to see him trading blows with Batman.
