Which team was in the right again and why?
>>83883661
Neither and both. They each had their merits and their faults.
>>83884367
This.
I agreed more with Cap, but understood why Iron Man's side believed in the regulations.
>>83883661
Ironman
Caps motivation is so fucking gay
>>83884425
Fuck it's summer again isn't it.
>>83884458
You must be new...
Also, neither.
>>83884367
>>83884415
They were each looking at a big picture, but were focusing from different perspectives. You could say that Tony was looking at the whole picture, as he felt he needed to keep the Avengers together so they'd be ready for what's coming. Wilst Steve was rather more up close and seeing some of the finer details, and thus being able to discern who was actually responsible for all this shit that was unraveling.
The disadvantage with Tony's perspective is that he misses these details. The disadvantage of Steve's is that while he gets these details, he's only focusing on one part of the picture.
Whoever shot second.
Superhero on superhero beat downs are ridiculously destructive and short sighted.
>>83883661
>Which team was in the right again and why?
Right about what?
Like despite the movie's pretense, they don't actually fight over any grand ideological difference. They fight over fucking Bucky.
>>83884766
did you miss the first scene with General Ross? The government wants to regulate them. Tony agrees, Cap doesn't.
>>83883661
Cap should have told the two Ross's what was up. Why wouldn't they have sent in Avengers to stop 6 super soldiers?
Cap was wrong.
>>83884842
>Cap should have told the two Ross's what was up.
I think he was kinda suspected that Ross wouldn't listen. Ross wanted him behind bars for stopping the authorities from gunning down Barnes without sanction. He was kinda right in that regard since Stark had acted with 100% sanction and Ross didn't even bother listening when he gave him evidence of what was actually happening.
Ross just has a hateboner for supers.
>>83884787
Hes shitposting
TONY LISTEN
TONY YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND
HE'S A TERRORIST WHO'S KILLED COUNTLESS PEOPLE, INCLUDING YOUR PARENTS
BUT HE'S MY FRIEND, SO WE'LL LET IT SLIDE, OK?
>>83884787
Yeah, but that's not why they actually come to blows.
They're fighting because Cap wants to help Bucky track Zemo and Iron Man wants to bring him in.
And later because Iron Man wants to kill Bucky and Cap wants to save him.
Put any other sort of document in place of the Accords and once the UN gets bombed you'd end up with basically the same movie. The Accords frame and inform the conflict, but aren't the driving force behind it. Not in the slightest.
>>83885020
Had Cap gone to Ross to turn Bucky in rather than flee it would have looked better. Cap evaded arrest to stop a bigger threat that he should have passed on to someone else. The active accords signed avengers.
>>83883661
Tony's, because come on, just look at the power levels. Sure, they have the most useless one (Black Widow), but they also have two Iron Mans, an overpowered magic man and objectively-better-than-Cap-man.
>>83885076
He was also being mind controlled and it wasn't "countless" people, they pulled him out for specific assassinations.
Countless would be the amount he killed during WW2
>>83885438
If your parents were killed by an assassin, even a brainwashed one at that, I don't think you'll shrug it off because he's a friend of a friend.
>>83885204
But Steve has the Thanosbuster on his team.
>>83885197
>Cap gone to Ross to turn Bucky in rather than flee it would have looked better.
Not by much I'd gather. I'll give you, it might've been enough to make maybe Tony listen, MAYBE. But after figuring of what they thought Zemo was up to, they understandably needed to act fast. Mind you, this was something they even mildly considered. But decided against it cause' they thought that the accords would prevent Tony from helping. That and the kill order for Sgt. Barnes was likely renewed and doubled after what happened in Berlin. So I doubt he was willing to risk 'muh Bucky' again on that one.
>>83885438
>literally a terrorist commie
>who's killed countless people (because the bomb that killed king nigger only killed him rite?)
>claim ignorance to your acts
>get away with it
hitler should've claimed the same defense.
>>83883661
Cap was willing to ruin the life of Haweye and Ant-man just to save one guy.
''But the other 6 winter soldiers!'' He didn't even told General Ross about them, its not like he tried his best to solve that crisis first before ruining peoples lives.
>Kissing the ass of Thunderbolt Ross
>ever right
>Letting a bunch of superpowered vigilantes run amok
>>83885490
Yea but I'm just a normal guy in a normal world. The whole "you killed my parents 30 years ago so Ima act like you killed them 30 seconds ago" thing is dumb and is really only used so superheroes can fight.
Tony has matured a lot and dedicated himself to helping people and I feel like he would have outgrown that mentality of throwing a tantrum.
For me, I feel like characters that do that are messed up in the head. Take Batman, his parents died 25-30 years prior? Yet every time he thinks about them or some bad guy brings them up he goes into a rage?
tl;dr I hate it when adults throw tantrums
>>83885490
>Son, that wasn't us, that was Hydra. If I throw this pen at your face are ya' gonna blame me or are you gonna have a fist-fight with the pen?
>>83885551
Did you see the movie? You do know that it was Zemo that did that right?
>>83885701
Oh well, that's a fair point. Sorry if I sounded rude, pal.
>>83885737
zemo killed tony's parents?
news to me.
>>83885598
They were willing to do that for him themselves. It's not like he forced them, or that he didn't give them a chance to say no.
"We're outside of the law on this one. If you do this, you're a wanted man."
>>83885771
Zemo blew up the meeting at the UN or w/e
>>83885775
So Cap knows that they are fucking up their lives and he is all lie ''go for it! thanks!''?
Cap is shit
>>83883661
I side with Cap partially.
Oh we cause a little collateral damage during our volunteer work?
Well tell you what, We'll just take our toys, hang back, catch up on reading or whatever while the aliens wreak havoc and analprobe everyone.
Come back when your done with my statue.
>>83885952
They're facing a crisis. He made the risks clear and they chose to help him anyway.
It should be noted, I feel, that nobody knew about Ross' secret prison, not even Stark. Had Cap known, he might've argued against it more.
>>83885975
>Supporting feudalism
Get out of my America
>>83885952
You're either shitposting or an idiot. Either way, here's your (You)
>>83885975
>We'll just take our toys, hang back, catch up on reading or whatever while the aliens wreak havoc and analprobe everyone.
That's kinda what BW told the US government at the end of TWS. If it weren't for Zemo forcing Cap to go all 'muh Bucky', that's probably what he would've tried to do.
Until not turning away from a bad situation would get the better of him.
>>83885701
Tony had suppressed his emotions regarding his parents for decades and the Bucky thing made the dam burst.
>>83886014
How about telling General Ross about the Winter Soldiers?
>>83886178
He told Tony and Tony didn't care.
>>83886178
>How about telling General Ross about the Winter Soldiers?
Ross would've probably regarded it as bullshit just like the evidence of Bucky's innocence (in regards to Vienna) Tony sent his way.
After what happened in Berlin, I don't think Ross would've been willing to have anything of what Rogers had to say.
>>83883661
Team Ironman.
Bucky was a danger who needed to be locked away.
>>83886207
>>83886253
so one is a character acting out of character and the other is just ''no because that would have solved the plot''.
got it.
As of Black Panther, heading into Infinity War, the Avengers will be almost completely non-existent.
> Steve and Sam in Wakanda.
> Tony and Vision (perhaps with Rhodey)
> Everyone else has gone their separate ways and have drifted apart.
Cap's side. But only because Tony was written like a complete idiot who refused to listen to anything Cap tried to tell him
>>83885551
>because the bomb that killed king nigger only killed him rite?
Bucky had absolutely nothing to do with that
It's all good intentions being the road to hell. Both mean well.
Tony does things behind his team-mates backs, such as house arresting them and not telling them anything about it. It may be well-intentioned but it sows mistrust.
Then, when Cap does the same thing that Tony does (decide what other people should know) Tony flips his burgers.
>>83886616
>so one is a character acting out of character
How is Ross not not giving a shit about what anyone has to say out of character? That's totally what he does.
>and the other is just ''no because that would have solved the plot''.
If Steve thought it could, he would.
>>83886622
Everybody that Steve broke out of The Raft is going to be as much a fugitive of the law as he is. They'll all have to hide out in Wakanda with him, unless the person in question is particularly great at flying under the radar on their own.
Otherwise, Steve's plan seems to be to keep a Secret Avengers team ready to deploy on a moment's notice, to help Tony if he asks for it.
>>83886892
No, Tony not believing in Cap, that's bullshit.
And he didn't even told Ross and saying ''well we all know that Ross'' no, we don't know shit, specially Cap doesn't. Is just a PLOT HOLE
>>83886894
If they "help" Tony, in many of Team Cap's minds, they would risk getting arrested/betrayed by Tony.
> Clint's family is still off the grid so he may have found his way back to them.
> Wanda does not trust Tony and can now easily be lured away by Doctor Strange (he has a better shot at this than he did in the comics when he tried to recruit her). She is going to be much more powerful in IW, and she can't really train her powers (I doubt T'challa would risk allowing her to given what happened in Lagos);with the plebs in Wakanda or on Earth, frankly.
> Scott can easily hide out with Hank and Hope. Hank's loaded so it's no biggie.
>>83883661
Hawkeye and Ant Man's motivations were nonexistent, I still don't understand why they were in the movie.
