What is Marvel's "Watchmen"? Does it have any?
Inhumans
>>83862021
If you are talking about the deconstruction of the superhero archetype then Miracleman.
I'd say this
>tfw no ending
>>83862021
Marvel barely have any meanfull title as DC. The closest they have is Earth X and Marvels.
Part of me wants to say Marvels but that doesn't seem quite right.
Most people would point you here.
>>83862159
don't read the JMS one it is bad
Death of Captain Marvel for "Graphic Novel from the 1980s that showed superheroes in adult situations"
Maybe also "God Loves, Man Kills"
>>83862170
>bad
wat
It's a bit tryhard at times, but it's far from bad
>>83862180
Captain Marvel is DC though :^)
Fraction's FF
think about it
>>83862206
wew
Yes King wank is in full force right now but it's still true.
Dark Phoenix Saga's pretty much Marvel's biggest entry-level comic.
At least it was until Civil War, but Civil War is junk.
>>83862347
That doesn't make it Watchmen tier though.
Honestly?
This is probably Marvel's deepest, most literary, and iconic story.
Watchmen is DC's Squadron Supreme trufax
>>83862244
I want to fuck Mrs. Vision
And I thought Viv and that one boy were kind of cute together. Sucks that he got domed by his own shit for brains dad
>>83862021
Born again
Punisher Max: Born
Ultimates 1 & 2
>>83862062
yeah but miracleman was an already written eclipse comic, they just got the rights to publish it again.
>>83865198
It was a britbong comic that Eclipse reprinted.
>>83862021
>>83862144
Watchmen and Squadron Supreme are really interesting in their opposition.
The Watchmen is all about a real world that is suddenly infected by capes.
Squadron Supreme is all about a cape world that is suddenly infected by real-world issues.
>>83865123
>>83864995
>>83864591
These three are what came to my mind first. I'd say DD: Born Again is simply the best but SS: Requiem gives more of the feeling of closure or finality that Watchmen does.
But I don't think Watchmen is anything that Marvel tried to directly replicate like it did with Kingdome Come/Earth X. Not using main universe characters is a huge factor and throws out everything except Edge, Icon and NewUniverse stuff
>>83865123
Its 1 am where I live and I read the bottom as Kascinszki and Kubrik and I was so excited to read this without even thinking about how neither of those people write comics and one of them is the Unabomber
>>83862021
The orignal runs of the FF and ASM.
>>83865377
Fuck I forgot about Silver Surfer: Requiem. That definitely deserves to be there too.
>>83862021
Miracleman silly
>>83862021
One More Day
>>83862142
Marvels is their Kingdom Come
>>83867953
Nvm, i'm a casual, Earth X is obviously their Kingdom Come
>>83862244
>this is what kingfags actually believe
Nobody will remember your little robot soap opera in a few years.
Civil War tried to adapt a similar concept of banning super heroes and the aftermath, but it did it terribly. It doesnt have the rich depth, logic or overall great story that Watchmen has.
>>83869296
That's because Civil War was primarily focused on getting heroes to fistfight heroes, and the reason why could be any window dressing
>>83862021
Depends on how you'd define what a "Marvel Watchmen" comic would be like.
If you define it as a widely-read, critically-acclaimed 1980s comic that addresses timely real-world issues and mature themes using the superhero metaphor, I suppose you could go with either Frank Miller and David Mazzucchelli's "Born Again" storyline in Daredevil or Chris Claremont and Brent Anderson's X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills graphic novel. Neither is as "literary" in its structure and use of both textual and visual motifs as Watchmen, though.
>>83862206
Who? Oh, you mean Shazam?
>>83869485
>Neither is as "literary" in its structure and use of both textual and visual motifs as Watchmen, though.
Born Again is no where near as pretentious as Watchmen though. And actually has a better conclusion in my opinion:
>He speaks with a voice to command gods
>And he does
>>83869485
Just to add, 1980s Marvel editor-in-chief Jim Shooter seemed to think that his pet project New Universe would be the company's answer to Watchmen. This bold step into a more realistic strain of superhero comics (as contradictory as it sounds) that would more directly address topics such as the Cold War and the growing economic inequity in the United States. The whole thing was a total failure, though, at least commercially.
>>83869524
>And actually has a better conclusion in my opinion:
You mean the one where the main character is usurped as a protagonist by a tertiary hero that completely overshadows him?
>>83869542
That's because we got shit like Kickers Inc.
>>83864591
Kingpin is still the best-written villain in Marvel's handbook and it's not even close. Well... maybe Mags, but he's so topsy-turvy that it's become boring. Fisk is still the man as far as I'm concerned.
>>83864591
This was boring af tho.
>>83869771
Take that back, heretic.
>>83869296
It's Millar what's you expect?
How about My war gone by?
>>83862206
It's not your fault.
>>83869723
People who think the Avengers showing up to take down Nuke don't really get the story.
The story is about Matt's endurance against all the shit that's against him. It's about Matt persevering and also forgiving. Nuke isn't a part of the story because he hates Daredevil, he's there because Kingpin manipulates politicians. The villains who are against Matt are Kingpin and Bullseye, and to a lesser extent Melvin Potter, which Daredevil defeats. The addition of the Avengers at the climax in my opinion adds this gravitas and grandeur which I - at least - want from my comics.
>>83869751
Agreed.
>>83869771
You have bad taste.
>>83869837
>my opinion adds this gravitas and grandeur which I - at least - want from my comics.
Sounds like you had a problem with Watchmen sullying the idea of heroes if you feel the conclusion of that comic isn't "satisfying" as a hero getting his mojo back
>>83862021
The Ultimate universe, the whole thing was a series of deconstructions.
No, Marvel doesn't have any comics you could call iconic or genre defining
Nextwave
>>83869837
In my opinion Matt's victory over Kingpin was that Kingpin brought war to Matt after killing him, and Matt still dons the costume.
Matt's victory is that there's nothing Kingpin can do anymore, he literally has done anything he could do to kill him and he failed. Once Kingpin got so desperate to try to Nuke Matt, he already lost.
>>83862021
Hol' up, let me pull my list of Marvel's most overrated works.
>>83862021
As far as sales are concerned, it's Civil War.
It has not been out of print ever.
>>83869504
>being this casual
Watchmen is a good book but it's had a terrible effect on the industry.
>>83870246
>Matt's victory is that there's nothing Kingpin can do anymore, he literally has done anything he could do to kill him and he failed. Once Kingpin got so desperate to try to Nuke Matt, he already lost.
This is pretty much what I was trying to say but failing to put into words.
>>83869864
Nah, I just think the ending of Watchmen is kind of anti-climatic. Especially how Rorschach goes out.
>>83871653
The side effect of doing something relatively new and innovative is that everyone will try to imitate it if it's successful, thus losing the uniqueness.
>>83871630
mmm, no, pretty sure his name is Shazam now friendo :^)
They tried with The Twelve, didn't they?
>>83868109
If you break it down far enough Watchmen is just a little superhero soap opera.
>>83871630
>being this in denial
>>83872685
Bit random, innit?
>>83872791
what do you mean?
>>83864591
Serious question, but does Daredevil have a single bad run?
>>83872887
Maybe Smiths?
>>83865034
I have no idea how Ultimates 2 turned out so well despite being written by a hack like Millar
>>83872928
Believe it or not, Millar is actually a good writer.
He just chooses to be godawful most of the time.
>>83869524
Born Again is a character driven story.
Watchmen is a deconstruction of comics as a medium. It's like comparing Apples & Oranges
>>83869723
What would a Frank Miller Captain America run be like?
>>83872887
I stopped reading after two issues but the current run seemed pretty mediocre.
>>83872887
Diggle's was so bad, Marvel did a 180 with Waid's.
>>83872945
There was a period between The Unfunnies & Civil War where he was actually good. Then he returned to form and just lost it.
Ult.X-Men, Ult.FF, Ultimates 1&2, and Wolverine were all really good...and then he wrote Civil War, his shit FF run, & Nemesis.
Why is this thread still even going. This was answered in the 2nd post >>83862062
>>83872887
Have you ever read anything from Armored Daredevil upto Daredevil v2
>>83873061
Can't say I have.
>>83862144
>>83862072
Didn't the original team get murked by Bendis' shitty Donut Steel? Even more reason to hate that fuck.
>>83865377
Kingdom Come was a "response" to Marvels, and Earth X was Ross playing around with designs until there was enough interest to warrant a series. It wasn't mandated by Marvel and it's really nothing like Kingdom Come aside from a few shared traits.
Similarly, Kingdom Come is nothing like Marvels, and anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot. None of these stories are direct analogues to each other and Ross had a huge part to play in the development of all three.
>>83867985
i always thought civil war was kind of like kingdom come
>>83869784
It pokes at cool ideas like MAX Fury being addicted to war but doesn't do a whole lot besides have a couple characters shit on him for it.
I like Fury MAX but the book is fundamentally about watching Fury shoot, fuck, smoke and drink his way through life.
>>83873362
>but the book is fundamentally about watching Fury shoot, fuck, smoke and drink his way through life.
Just like the Comedian.
>>83872884
The Twelve's just another one of the "Apocalypse fights the X-Men" storylines, right?
I dunno, its like saying 8th Days' their Watchmen, Or Kang Imperative's their Watchmen. Or Into the Dark Dimension's their Watchmen.
>>83873472
Nope. I was talking about the JMS penned one about the Silver Age Heroes.
>>83873496
I meant Golden Age
>>83862021
wolverine, any of them
>>83864649
I want to fuck daughter Vision, when she is olderDo those kids actually grow up?
>>83862119
This is why Marvel forced Civil War into existence and they force it into everything they can.
>>83864995
10/10 Cover
>>83873682
I want to fuck her right now
>>83862021
God Doom = Doc Manhattan
New 52 = Battleworld
But now that Doom is no longer god, the role of Manhattan is being filled by Reed and Franklin.
>>83872455
>Nah, I just think the ending of Watchmen is kind of anti-climatic. Especially how Rorschach goes out.
That's the point.
>>83862144
This is only right answer
>>83862206
Shit like this is why I'm dreading storytiming Mar-Vell.
>>83872887
Chichester, Diggle, second half of Waid
>>83862144
this but OP it's a false binary you're presenting.
