Will Rebirth give us back Selina Kyle Catwoman? The one we have now is Selina Calabrese. Literally a different person.
>>83789709
>giving a shit about Catwoman
I hope so. The gays can have Calabrese.
Real Selina should beat her ass. It's literally identity theft.
>>83789709
Since the start of the New 52 I've resigned myself to the idea that Catwoman will never be the fun and interesting anti-heroine she used to be.
It starts to hurt less after a few years.
>>83790087
>Catwoman
>fun and interesting anti-heroine
>ever
Pfffft!
>>83789709
Valentine's run was the first time she was good since Brubaker.
Calabrese is a Patience Phillips tier Catwoman.
>>83789709
Snyder is doing an arc on her for All Star so it's going to be months before she's a viable character again
>>83790135
Why does everyone slobber all over Valentine's run? So Catwoman became a mob boss for like five minutes. Whoopdee fucking shit.
>>83790211
Because it was good and genuinely well done Catwoman in a new, iconic direction.
>>83789709
>I don't read Catwoman
Fuck off. Valentine's run was amazing and perfectly in line with the character.
>>83790211
Because lesbianism. And womyn comic writers are given elevated status. But mostly the lesbianism.
>>83790313
>>83790282
>generic crime drama
>iconic
>amazing
Please don't troll. It's about as iconic as Wonder Woman's stint as an Emma Peel copycat.
>>83790313
>perfectly in line with the character
It's not even Selina Kyle.
Longhaired purple outfit Selina needs to come back.
>>83790378
No it doesn't, that costume was terrible and so was that entire book.
>>83790211
Because it was the first time Catwoman's book was any good in years.
>>83790378
That costume looks like shit, there's a reason everyone loved the Brubaker one.
>>83790378
As much as I like it, I slightly prefer the darker version with the full-cowl more.
>>83790410
How about something reminiscent of Hathaway Catwoman? Or Newmar?
>>83790282
>>83790422
>Catwoman in a Saprano's knockoff
>good
Doubtful.
>>83790433
And we're going back to the lesbianism...
>>83790339
So, in other words, super iconic in the character's history?
>>83790321
Agreed. Whenever a woman writes a comic now, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. And we've annoyingly become so politically correct that in most instances now only women can write women characters in solos, only blacks can write black characters in solos etc.
>>83790670
I wouldn't call a revamp that was a blatant appeal to then-current trends that's now regarded as a mistake "super iconic", but clearly your definition defers from mine.
>>83790211
Because average is still better than awful and everything for at least the 3 years prior to it was dogshit.
>>83790761
Catwoman hasn't been good in a long time. Honestly, I think she would have been better off without the Millerfication.
>>83790321
The lesbianism was done horribly.
We don't have the real Superman or Batman either
>>83790716
>meanwhile, Bendis is still on Miles
>>83790753
>that's now regarded as a mistake
Which is a travesty because it was fucking great.
>>83789735
Clearly you've never read any of the legitimately good Catwoman stories.
>>83791872
Don't respond.
This happens every Catwoman thread, like clockwork.
Nothing you say to him (them?) will have any effect, no matter how rational it is.
>>83791872
Because they don't exist.
>>83791920
Catwoman fans are incapable of being rational.
>>83789709
I hope
>>83790347
It is. Literally zero reason for you to think that you dimb asshole.
>>83790557
>can't even spell soprano
It was still Selina Kyle but she was using her Father's name to claim legitimacy as the head of the Calabrese family.
>>83790339
>I didn't read the book
>>83790211
>why does everyone like a well written book that took the character in a new and interesting direction
Capefags don't deserve good books.
>>83790339
>generic crime drama
Did you even read the book faggot?
>>83790087
>Aid by Physical Memory
What the fuck, she's Taskmaster?
HOW LONG HAS THAT BEEN A THING?!
>>83791968
It IS you! I remember the last time you made a Catwoman thread. Good times, buddy.
>>83790321
>>83790575
Makes sense that you hate women and lesbians, what with you being a giant fag and all.
>>83794744
A generic crime drama is not a new or interesting direction in any context. Least of all for Catwoman.
>>83794851
Whatever. I was asking a legitimate question that day, and got no satisfactory answer. Catwoman fans are deluded idiots.
>>83790947
Bendis is a honorary black.
>>83790321
Valentine is a novelist, as in a actual writer. She's being elevated because she knows how to write.
>>83794851
Shit what was his autistic question?
>>83794744
This, fuck this gay industry. I feel so bad for Valentine.
Brubaker run made me a fan of the character and I had nothing for what, over a decade? Until this came out and everyone proceeded to ignore it, including self described feminists clamoring for female lead books.
>>83794902
What constitutes generic? What plot points can you point to that prove it's genric?
>>83790575
>Short hair equals lesbian
Man I must have fucked some very confused lesbians considering I have a beard and a penis
>>83794929
Being written by a novelist is no guarantee of anything.
>>83794902
>got no satisfactory answer
Because you kept moving the goalposts like a little bitch.
>>83794944
>everyone proceeded to ignore it, including self described feminists
That's because Catwoman doesn't deserve attention from anyone.
>>83794965
>What constitutes generic?
Cliche and uninteresting.
>>83790716
Whut? people shit on Bennet's miserable work at Marvel, as well as Kate Leth and Kelly Sue Deconnick. The only two women books people actually liked that were written by women are Valentine's Catwoman and Paki Ms Marvel
>>83795037
>Answering the question of what constitutes X adjective with more adjectives
Retard. Holy shit.
>>83795037
I mean what evidence is there that backs up your claims of it being generic.
>>83790321
>And womyn comic writers are given elevated status.
>>83790716
>Whenever a woman writes a comic now, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
This is how I know this stuff is just bait, because no one enjoyed Ann Nocenti's Catwoman and that's why Valentine's was such a relief to many Catwoman fans because at least her run wasn't utter shit.
Maybe your comments can apply to the comic industry in general, but the fact you say Valentine's run is only liked because she's a woman when a woman (who's run is commonly hated on) had been on the book for many issues before her says that you don't actually know what you're talking about and are just bitching because "muh sjw womyn boogyman"
>>83795089
Does nothing new or creative with the genre.
>>83795073
>being butthurt because someone points out your waifu is a worthless sack of shit
Neckbeard. Holy shit.
>>83795089
>>83795073
That anon just enjoys baiting Catwoman fans. He pops up every now and then. Just ignore him and don't respond.
>>83795168
>someone points out that you didn't actually answer the question
>still not answering the question
>>83794934
It was more or less what he was posting here. Asking what anyone sees in Catwoman.
>>83795168
>Does nothing new or creative with the genre
What does these days? Not everything has to be "redefining" or "change the rules!"
>>83790378
The purple suit Catwoman series is one of my guilty pleasures. I know it's bad but it keeps me entertained.
>>83795168
Which would be what exactly? Did you read the book or not.
>>83795279
I did answer the question.
Generic
adjective
adjective: generic
1.
characteristic of or relating to a class or group of things; not specific.
In other words, it's nothing special.
>>83795284
And nobody was able to elaborate. Pretty sure you're all just twelve.
>>83790321
I've never met a masculine lesbians.
We have a pretty thriving gay community in my city, but I've only ever met lipstick lesbians. A few have short hair, but usually not more than a pixie cut.
>>83795343
>>83795366
Stop taking the bait.
>>83795042
You're thinking of here. Anons are referring to the comics community at large.
>>83795404
>/co/
>not taking the bait
You're fighting a losing battle.
>>83795168
Getting really defensive there cranky.
>>83794637
Confirmed for not even reading the comic.
>>83790433
Which is the Brubaker one?
>>83795411
Leth, Deconnick and Henderson are praised not because of feminism but because nepotism.
>>83795370
>i did answer the question
No you didn't.
>>83794972
Dude. I was referring to the fucking Holly Robinson thing that won a GLAAD award. The gaystapo itself.
>>83795434
I did and it's pretty obvious that you're just wrong.
That is Selina Kyle, plain and simple.
>>83795438
>>83795469
Yeah, I did. I explained to you that the run does nothing of note besides making Catwoman fans into really obnoxious bastards who will defend their worthless waifu to the death.
>>83795473
>gaystapo
You should kill yourself. Seriously.
>>83795501
>yeah I did
No you didn't.
>>83795579
You're being baited. Stop being stupid and expecting a troll to not post more bait.
>>83795579
The run simply does nothing interesting or noteworthy beyond the basic premise of putting Catwoman in a crime drama. Putting Catwoman in a crime drama does not automatically make it special.
I have explained why this run is generic trash several times. It's not my fault you're too fucking stupid to understand basic explanations.
>>83795623
Stop bumping the thread idiot.
>>83795641
>I have explained
You haven't. You gave us synonyms for genric and that's it.
>>83795670
I gave you the definition for generic too, but apparently, you're too much of a moron to understand the concept.
>>83795709
>I gave you the definition of generic too
But not any evidence that Valetine's run was generic.
>>83795749
How many times do I have to say "nothing interesting or notable" before it sinks in, dipshit? It's completely paint by numbers and is completely interchangeable with any other story in its genre. Fucking hell.
>>83795709
What you gave us is jacksquat. You haven't once talked about her run, only insisting that it's genric without giving any reason or evidence.
Catwoman just needs to be a psycho cat-themed villain stealing shit because she's crazy and it gets her off.
>>83795808
How many times do I have to ask for reasoning or evidence behind your claim.
>>83795808
>It's completely paint by numbers and is completely interchangeable with any other story in its genre. Fucking hell.
I have to actually agree with this. It's different for a Catwoman story, but compared to any other mobster story it's nothing new.
Maybe if the rest of the new52 Catwoman run hadn't been shit then maybe the mob family stuff wouldn't have been so interesting by comparison.
>>83795808
>nothin interesting or notable
Except for Selina becoming a mob boss.
>>83795903
You're wrong tho. You can't say it's interchangeable.
Valentine's run probably would've been more interesting if she wrote Selina more in character. Instead, she spends the whole run in various states of detached, bored, and annoyed.
>>83795903
Stop being a faggot that equates novelty with creativity.
>>83795944
>Catwoman acting like a cat
>out of character
She isn't just a flirty thief anon.
.
>>83795482
No. Her parents aren't Brian and Maria Kyle. That makes her genetically a different person.
>>83795938
>You can't say it's interchangeable.
Why not? Explain why you think I'm wrong.
>>83795956
>Stop being a faggot that equates novelty with creativity.
Then please explain to me how her stint as a mob boss has affected the character as a whole. What has it changed about her? What has it added the the character overall?
>>83796061
>What has it added *to* the character overall?
>>83795501
GLAAD is the gaystapo. They try to make sure homosexuality is in everything and if it's not they try to get it canned. And apart from entertainment they try to ruin anyone who disagrees.
>>83794975
The art was so fucking good while the writing was so fucking bad.
>>83796073
Maybe you should go and write an angry letter to your local congressman.
>>83796046
Genetics doesn't make up her character tho.
Quit being an autistic fuck.
>>83796061
>Judging a book by what comes after it
How dumb can you get? You should only be focusing on Valetine's run and her run only because it's a self contained story.
>>83789709
Her New 52 series was pretty good, and I was disappoint when she didn't get her own rebirth ongoing.
Hopefully she'll have a big role in All Star Batman.
>>83796061
Because it's a Catwoman story that specifically deals with Catwoman and her shit. You can't replace the characters or else the story wouldn't work.
>>83790378
The purple suit is fucking horrid.
Her current costume is perfection.
>>83795501
>You should kill yourself. Seriously.
I thought the media said gays were nice people.
>>83796263
Gay people are just people you fucking bigot. They don't need to play nice with your dumbass self.
>>83796223
>You should only be focusing on Valetine's run and her run only because it's a self contained story.
Okay. Then let's do that. What about Valentine's run makes it so interesting to you? What do you feel is so creative about the story and concept?
>>83796061
>what has it changed about her
How about you read the run and find out?
>>83796321
Besides the premise and how all the characters interacted with each other and how Selina dealt with being a mob boss?
>>83795922
That's not interesting or notable. That's just gimmicky shit.
>>83796223
But when you do that, you get tunnel-visioned obsessives like Azz-fags. When you focus on runs as contained stories you get those "people" who refuse to acknowledge anything within the character's history that is not that specific run.
.... Y'know, I suddenly feel the slightest bit of empathy for some Catwoman fans. Not much though.
>>83796321
>whatvs interesting about it
Selina being a mob boss instead of being a cat burglar.
>what's creative about it
The crime family drama ofc. Valetine gaves us multiple fractions with their own plans and goals and showed usnhow Selina would navigate that shit. That takes creativity.
>>83790557
You saying she was better off in some weird underground society fighting doctor phosphorus and Jokers Daughter in a Apocalypse tribe gang war?
Better in a story where Catwoman gets hired for a job that is late revealed to be a deathtrap for her to stop or a set up for her to get blamed for a crime she didn't commit (for what feels like the 12th time this decade)
>>83796014
Well, acting like a flirty thief at least in the early part of the run would've at least provided some contrast and some character growth later on. Have her revel in it, treat it like a game like she often does with Batman. Use her cousins as a counterweight, so when shit starts to fuck up, like what happens to Nick, she starts to see why she needs to take things seriously.
>>83796362
>gimmicky shit
No its not. It was the premise and valetine stayed faithful to it.
>>83796294
>it's bigoted to judge people on behavior
>>83796362
No that's bullshit. You can't judge a story by what comes after it, you can maybe judge by what comes before it but not after.
>>83796427
It's bigoted to judge a whole population of people by what the media tells you.
>>83795482
Selina Kyle has had different origins.
There was one where she was related to the falconers crime family (I think it was part of the Long Halloween continuity)
>>83796424
It's a gimmicky premise. Like when Firestorm was a hideous looking elemental.
>>83796403
I'm saying she's better off not existing.
>>83790378
I'm partial to the purple dress and green cape, myself.
>>83796194
Genetics do make characters though. William Burnside changed his name to Steve Rogers and got work done. Does that make him the real Steve Rogers or do genetics prove otherwise?
>>83796494
So just no Catwoman at all?
If ya hate the character why come to a threat about a character?
>>83796471
>There was one where she was related to the falconers crime family (I think it was part of the Long Halloween continuity)
It was hinted at but never confirmed within the LH continuity. However it sort of is confirmed during her run that she's not when she meets the actual long lost Falcone daughter and makes the girl her sidekick.
>>83796470
>the media
The media tells me gays are the greatest. I don't listen to the media.
>>83796560
>If ya hate the character why come to a threat about a character?
Because /co/ is easy to bait.
>>83796560
>still talking the b8
This guy shows up in almost every Catwoman thread. Ignore him and he'll go away.
>>83796599
What does this have to do with Catwoman?
>>83796454
>No that's bullshit.
Is it? Considering the serial nature of comics, previous plot points can and often are rendered pointless or ruined by future events. So yeah, you can definitely judge a book by what happens later.
>>83796593
Ah I didn't know that. Neat
Still lots of people's backgrounds were changed in n52
It still seems strange to me to be so adamant against the change of catwoman's history. I mean Catwoman always tries to leave herself as a woman of mystery so her background hardly ever comes up, so why not change it when you have the opportunity and think you can improve it.
>>83796662
Point was made that Valentine's run is praised because she's a woman and the lesbianism. Tumblr leaked and attacked.
>>83796745
But that's not true though. The run before her's was also written by a woman and many call it terrible. The only reason Valentine's gets praised so much is because it's the only okay story in a shit series.
>>83796687
>Is it?
It is. Trying to judge by a book's quality by whether or not future writers do anything with it is dumb, you should judge the book by the book alone.
>>83796745
>the book is praised because Valetine is a woman
So someone called you on your bullshit and you got triggered because your safe space was invaded.
>>83797004
Again, comics are serialized, and thus end up being one continuous narrative. It's perfectly reasonable to judge a series based on all parts of it.
>>83797090
No it's not, you're being a retard. You should judge a run only by that run amd not by what comes after.
>>83797090
Why would I judge a writer's work by what the writer after them does? It's illogical backwards thinking.
>>83797283
>>83797333
Once again, comic books are serialized, and boil down to a single continuous narrative. Plot points and characterization can and often are altered by what future writers do. You must judge a series by its whole, you cannot pick and choose what counts and what doesn't.
I already explained this shit twice. I'm desperately trying to be patient here, but your lack of comprehension is getting just a little bit frustrating.
>>83797557
But tons of great comics are judged by the singular story and not how well it fits in.
Morrison's Animal Man, JLA League of One, Long Halloween, Batman Odyssey, All Star Superman, Escape from Bizarro World, Will World, Jokers Asylum shorts, Kingdom Come or any else world story for that matter, etc etc etc
>>83797557
>boil down to a single continuous narrative
But that's not how you judge quality retard.
>>83797687
And? They still manage to influence the mainline books from time to time, not to mention the whole Hypercrisis nonsense. They count as well.
>>83797557
>you must judge a series by its whole
But why are you judging previous wwriters by what future writers do? Shouldn't it be the opposite ehere you judge future writers by what previous wroters did.
>>83797557
But the whole mob boss story was pretty much a stand-alone. Had a definite beginning and an end. You should only judge it by itself.
>>83797755
Escape from Bizarro World didn't count
Damn sure Will World didn't either.
Some stuff just stands alone.
Even in ongoing comics some stuff is released that is a stand alone story that can be a wild ride but eventually goes back to some reasonable status quo.
Like Wonder Woman Oddessey which was pretty much taken care of by the end of its own run.
Or Batman getting his back broke and the Azbat taking over, which did eventually have Batman return to his own title.
Oooor this run of Catwoman which worked off the new family origin setup in Batman Eternal and had Catwoman momentarily give up her lone warrior lifestyle to be a mob boss, which did have it end with her going back to being Catwoman.
>>83797755
>>83797557
>The cancer killing comics.
You're pretty much killing the medium with this continuity obsessed faggotry
>>83797875
One more time. Previous plot points can and often are affected by stuff future writers do. Getting kind of sick of explaining that to you.
>>83797939
Doesn't matter. Future stuff may have an effect on it. You should judge all of the material as a whole.
>>83798049
So why should we care about the future plot points that don't continue the mob boss run, when we are likely going to have even further ahead plot points that continue on characters and plot that was established by mob boss run?
>>83798049
Explain how it affects the quality of Valentine's run and not the run of the future writer dipshit
>>83798156
For that exact reason. Comics continually build on previously established material. The point is continuing on to find out what's going to happen next.
>>83794975
How many fucking earth 2's are there? This shit is getting annoying again.
Can they drop a crisis and make it 1 world and everything else elseworlds?
>>83798260
Because said run threw out the mob boss stuff and rendered it 100% pointless.
>>83798315
Plenty of comics and comic stories simply get finished, but that doesn't mean it is bad though.
Old52 had plenty of great stories that were retconned but are still recommendable.
It still seems very dumb for you to dislike a run simply because it finished the story and a new run did something different right after.
>>83789709
>>83796046
>>83796194
>>83796554
Yeah, it does kind of bother me that she's a different person and Selina Kyle is just an alias. There has to be a real one out there though. The Kyles couldn't have been erased from existence.
>>83798441
All comics are pointless past entertainment.
The real question is did the mob boss run entertain you.
>>83798494
I've never read any of the Catwoman ongoings beyond Gotham City Sirens and n52+ stuff
What run was the Kyles in? And what they do?
>>83798441
It didn't render pointless. The story ended and a new story began.
>>83798504
>All comics are pointless past entertainment.
That's a cop out response. If you wanna go there, life itself is intrinsically pointless and devoid of worth. Doesn't mean you can't criticize bullshit.
>The real question is did the mob boss run entertain you.
It's a Catwoman story. It has no chance of being entertaining.
>>83798470
The reboot rendered all that shit useless. Those stories no longer matter. They have been discarded, so there's no point in reading them.
>>83798554
>What run was the Kyles in?
>Here and there in flashbacks and stuff. I believe they were mostly brought up during the Balant purple suit run.
>And what they do?
Die and/or be drunk assholes to their daughters.
>>83798743
But you're criticizing a story for ending which is retarded.
>>83798886
>The real question is did the mob boss run entertain you.
>It's a Catwoman story. It has no chance of being entertaining.
It's the troll from earlier. Just ignore him and stop responding.
>>83798886
No I'm not. I'm not criticizing anything(besides Catwoman and your frustrating stupidity), I'm pointing out that the mob boss story is fucking pointless because it never mattered in the long run.
>>83798743
What I and I'm sure tons others don't get is why you feel continuity is adamantly synonymous with entertainment value of a story.
Let's talk for about the 2 recent WW runs and The Legend of WonderWoman.
Now for the azz WW run, whether or not you love the run, does your opinion for that run get improved by the fact that Finch's run continues it.
And while Finch's run was debatably crap and the Legend of WW miniseries is debatably good, is Finch's run automatically better in your opinion because it is main universe continuity and Legend is simply a stand alone story outside main continuity
>>83799124
It's not about continuation, it's about what a story contributes to the franchise. Said contributions cannot be separated from the rest, as they inevitably influence the greater whole in one way or another.
I hated the Azzarello run, and the Finch run only made it worse by shitting all over what few slightly interesting things were set up. Every entry in a series affects the overall quality of a series, and the Nu52 material made the franchise's rating drop slightly.
I haven't read Legend, so I don't know what contributions to the franchise it has made.
>>83799549
But in this case then mob Catwoman should be recommended, since it contributes to the DC franchise a story that isn't the usual Catwoman the thief story.
>>83791968
Holy shit, I remember your last shitty Catwoman bashing thread.
Why are you still alive?
>>83800232
>being one of those tunnel-visioned bitches who only acknowledge one aspect of a series
Fuck you. Go hard or go home.
>>83800327
>Why are you still alive?
Because I'm relatively healthy and don't take any serious risks. Cry about it some more.
>>83789709
If pre-Flashpoint Wally West came back so can Selina.
>>83802443
They should both stay gone.
>>83802552
Fuck off.
>>83802789
Kill yourself.
>>83803015
Nice guy.
>>83802443
She'll be trapped in the car force forever.
Just give up.
>>83794800
Since they realized they wanted her to be an anti-hero
>character development is bad
>I don't even read Catwoman but I have very strong opinioms on what she should be
I'm tempted to storytime Valentine's run just to spite you autists.
>>83802552
What DO you like? Honestly!
>>83804140
>all character development is good, even if it's contrived and forced
>Implying you can't have a problem with a story arc if you've read it
Do what you want, but with that attitude it's clear you're only invested in preaching to your personal choir.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDqi_8tcxtY
>>83805346
>forced
>contrived
She watches people she cares about get hurt or die because of her all the time. She watched an innocent little girl get shot to death as a result of events started by her stealing from a gangster. Her best friend was executed. This isn't even counting the horrible shit that happened pre-N52.
She was jaded and angry and decided to take matters into her own hands. It just so happens her father was a piece of shit mobster who wanted to run the mob through her. She took over and wanted to actually do some good. She lived in a den of vipers 24/7, she couldn't waste time playing around, not when so many lives were on the line and she had already messed up so many times.
What, did you want her to quip as she had her traitor cousin killed by his sister? It was a brilliant showcase of the character being capable of far more than just innuendo and horseplay, how she can work as a great character both in and out of costume. You can tell stories with her that go beyond mark-of-the-week.
If you can't see that then you're probably just too close-minded to have ever enjoyed it in the first place.
>>83803257
Aye
>>83790321
>lesbianism
Catwoman is bi though. She still has an on/off thing for Batman, right?
>>83789709
i wish so
>>83789709
Is this the one who got naked on Wayne´s lawn?
>>83789709
>Literally a different person
Literally me
>>83810295
That didnt really happen. It was a couple of pages from a scene that was cut.
>>83810102
She still wanted the Bat-dick. She was just more tsundere about it.
>>83812717
Good
>>83789709
>>83804880
Why do you care? And how is it relevant? Knowing what books I like isn't going to help you convince me to stop hating Catwoman.
>>83817929
I'm just curious. I'm not about mudslinging. Just curious. I wouldn't insult your taste. Though I can't speak for everyone.
>>83790495
Fucking high-heel bullshit.
>>83818417
If a man can fight crime in a rubber batsuit, a woman can do gymnastics in high heels.
>>83818788
Nope. Fucks too much with my *willing* suspension of disbelief.
Also, I hate them because they're stupid.
>>83817256
This
>>83819560
When I become god emperor of everything, no comic woman would ever wear non-heeled shoes in any situation.
