What is the biggest bullshit to ever happen to a specific character?
>>83774095
Anything 2000 onward for Spider-Man.
Dungan being an android
>>83774246
>Gathering of the Five and Next Chapter came out in 1999
>>83774363
Shit, pull back to 1995 to be safe.
>>83774303
pretty sure he was also a skrull in secret invasion
Rightclops being handed to it's fucking nothing: the writer
Civil War for just about any character who got dragged into it.
Mr. "No, you move" Captain America decides to give up because a handful of random people support Iron Man and try to stop him from finishing the fight.
After disassociating himself from Iron Man in Armor Wars just to keep the government from controlling his technology, Tony Stark suddenly turns full on government stooge "The law overrides all even if it is unethical, we MUST obey!"
The whole fucking series was just shitting on characters to let the writers do a half-assed look at the conflicts between freedom and safety with characters people would actually want to read about. If they had tried the plot with new characters, no one would have bothered reading. Either that or the writers have their heads so far up their own asses they actually thought they had written a good story by shitting over all prior characterization.
pretty much any reveal that comes out of nowhere that a person was a robot all along.
>>83775045
Millenium was the worst event because of this
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rJ2KWfz.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
There's probably worse stuff I'm forgetting but this one is one of the worst recent ones.
>>83774095
the story where daredevil fought mysterio, the one when mysterio kills himself at the end
>>83774095
>>83775167
They sure like to shit on the Howling Commandos don't they?
>>83774592
Is that far enough to cover the whole clone saga?
Superman grounded or whatever it was called. The premise is about Superman walking across America as an illegal alien while criticizing its citizens and illegal aliens for being illegal aliens.
>>83776632
I came here to post this, but as a life-long Surfer fan, the biggest bullshit is his popart series where his new girlfriend is some bland hipster. I can forgive one dorky nonsense page.
>>83776510
>Spencer makes Cap Hydra
>Everyone loses their heads over "being disrespectful to Veterans/Holocaust survivors"
>Aaron shits all over Nick and the Howling Commandos
>Nothing
>>83776632
>crossface chicken wing is indestructible
>tfw Bret Hart can beat Silver Surfer
>>83776686
I don't mind the Dawn series so much. Then again, I like Doctor Who so...
>>83774619
Yeah, but before that he was just snikted outside a bar when they replaced him.
>>83774639
>Mr. "No, you move" Captain America decides to give up because a handful of random people support Iron Man and try to stop him from finishing the fight.
And.. central New York was on fire.
There was a lot of out of character shit in that event, but the idea of Steve Rogers being human enough to admit he made a mistake is not one of them.
>>83774095
Ch'p gets hit by a yellow bumper on a truck.
>>83774704
>If his teammates and family were going to accept him immediately anyway, why hide it?
>If he had a good reason to hide it, how could Jean out him without a second thought?
>>83776795
I can see why you might, then, and that's fine. But it also goes against his character, he's always been a tragically lonely guy who even after his years as herald still loves the home and woman he can't return to. And then, ok, I guess I'll be your boyfriend or whatever.
>>83776686
>the biggest bullshit is his popart series where his new girlfriend is some bland hipster.
He's literally Cosmic California in origin. There's nothing more appropriate than him falling for a hipster.
Or would you rather he became an almond farmer?
>>83775127
honestly, nothing DC does to Cass Cain at this point will EVER be as bad as what Beechen did
>>83776861
>Or would you rather he became an almond farmer?
I'd rather he not end up a shallow and dumpy love interest to an uninteresting nobody.
>>83776779
Of all the hundreds of things Surfer could do to get out of this, one thing bugs me above all: Panther is entirely helpless. This strategy wouldn't work against anyone here, you need weight and leverage to apply force when you do wrestling moves, but they're just floating in open space.
>>83776929
Even with Gravity, Surfer beat Cable. Cable wasn't even tethered by the techno organic virus and Surfer beat him in a fair fight because The Power Cosmic is just that fucking powerful. When we see world breakers like Thanos besting Radd, ok, I can buy it. But a single hold by a non-advanced human? The only word for this is "No."
Maybe not very important in the long run, but I expected better from Remender.
>>83776861
>He's literally Cosmic California in origin
What the fuck is Californian about him besides the surfboard?
>>83774303
They will prolly find the storehouse Fury left the original body and revive him in New Avengers
>>83777047
Do you just not read Silver Surfer stories at all?
>>83776860
He's not really her boyfriend, she's just... literally a Doctor Who companion. I like Surfer and I like DW but the level of similarity is really jarring sometimes.
But even if she was, let's face it, this would not be the first time he's fallen in love with an Earth girl
>>83777161
>this would not be the first time he's fallen in love with an Earth girl
Sure, definitely not the first time, I just don't understand why this one is there at all. Even when he falls for others, he ends up solitary because that's who he is.
>>83777006
>>83776632
My friend thinks vibranium can't be phased through because of this fight.
"Well if it can why didn't he just phase his arm our of his grip?"
"BECAUSE THIS IS THE DUMBEST PAGE IN COMICS!"
>>83776632
Silver Surfer doesn't deserve this crap.
>>83777286
I have a hard time believing that, but I can't really prove it right or wrong either. But that's fine, it doesn't need to be the deciding factor because Power Cosmic does everything, he can, at the very minimum of all things, fly at light speed and liquefy Panther's insides. Not that Surfer WOULD kill Panther, just that it would take zero effort to get him off of his back.
>>83777202
Don't worry, he will. Like all DW companions, Dawn will end up dead or trapped in some other dimension.
>>83776575
No, you'd have to pull back to around the middle of '93 for that one.
>>83777321
Jesus Christ, that entire fucking run.
>>83777321
>Silver Surfer's weakness is submission holds
>mfw
>>83777321
Is that Terrax's ax he's holding?
>>83777321
when did silver surfer get underwear? dafuq
>>83777386
Yeah, some artists draw him as wearing shorts instead of having no genitals. I like the bare look better.
Definitely what happened to Nova in this
>>83776618
This only read it this year. Fucking christ what the hell where they thinking.
The alien bit and the drug dealer bit stick out a particularly bad
>>83777449
>>83777374
I could buy all the bullshit of that run, all of it, except one thing.
A bullet wound? Really!? No one in the whole goddamn Marvel universe can heal of fucking bullet wound?!
>>83777321
Eerily similar
I guess like history, bad writing repeats itself
>>83777406
He had them in his first appearance. They come and go now, just like the fin on the bottom of his board. Personally I prefer him without either.
>>83776723
It wasn't Black Fury 616, so who cares.;_;
>>83777385
Yes. The entirety of Loeb's run on Hulk was just Red Hulk going around and beating up the strongest characters he could.
He beat Namor underwater. He punched The Watcher in the face. He beat Silver Surfer and Terrax, stealing the former's board and the latter's axe. He beat Thor USING MJOLNIR. He depowered Hulk by absorbing all of his gamma.
It was fucking non-stop with this shit to the point that once the next writer came on, the first thing he did was nerf Rulk (got rid of his energy absorption power which is how Loeb asspulled most of his victories) and then spent his first few arcs on the book having Rulk do a team-up with each person he beat earlier in the run and then get COMPLETELY shitstomped while retconning away why he was able to beat them in the first place.
He then proceeded to take the now humbled Rulk and turn him into a good character.
>>83777517
>He had them in his first appearance
Yeah, I remember he had them pretty early on, didn't remember it being his first appearance.
>>83777013
What? It's not like that actually beat him. It just dragged him away long enough that Wasp and Thor could get away.
>>83777461
>>83776618
It'd just be another forgotten sub par Superman run, but people keep posting the jumper part under "best superman moments"
Meanwhile All-star Superman did better in one page what it did in like 10.
>>83777528
>>83776632
>>83777321
>>83777503
This all feels like marvel writers have lost all sense of scale or at least reverence for the power scale.
Powerful characters exist to lose to new OG characters
>>83777321
Serves him right for not having his movie rights with Marvel.
>>83776723
Public backlash only comes from messing with things the public knows about.
>>83777528
Parker is a goddamn miracle worker.
>>83777449
This fucking arc...
>>83777013
Jesus. I fucking loathed how wasp badmouthed the sentry whenever she could
>>83777597
>new OG characters
Hey now, Black Panther is only four months younger than Silver Surfer.
Still stupid though.
>>83777597
well how else would you know how powerful the new OCs are??????
Its kinda like Thor and Hulk on the Avengers. They have to job so that you know how strong the villain is and how impossible it is for the team to beat them.
>>83774095
Everything that's happened to Cassandra Cain since her solo title ended.
>>83777659
to be fair to that, we've never seen before or since that Silver Surfer wasn't confined to any physical limitations due to his form.
we just assumed that due to his cosmic power level that physical feats would be beneath his worry.
>>83774095
Captain Atom finally coming back from having blown up only to actually get turned into Monarch this time, and running Countdown: Arena.
>>83774095
>This is my OC wolverine
>he is much stronger the real wolverine and has bones out of adamantine
>and hercules is his boyfriend.
It was stupid and a complete waste of ink. FrankienCastle can go here to despite my enjoyment of the comics.
>>83774095
Gwen from Ben 10
>Magic user before
>Alien powers now
I know that's not the biggest flaw of series but that was pretty stupid
>>83777597
They're lazy writers with no sense of building tension and not creative enough, writing for an almost teen-like audience. What did you expect?
>>83777730
Okay, no, Surfer could not get out of that hold through physical strength alone.
He COULD however:
>phase through solid matter
>instantly heal a broken arm
>electrocute BP
>crash one of those metros into him
>warp BP's suit into a vibranium cocoon
>blast a hole in him
>Stop BP's heart by thinking about it
>Control the electrons in BP's brain to make him let go
>Turn BP and everything around him into dust
It's not that what Black Panther is saying is wrong, it's just that it REALLY shouldn't matter.
>>83777528
I loved how he made the Watcher Rulk's arch-nemesis and how he weaponized cosmic non-interference.
>>83776849
The idea wasn't him hiding it, it was that he was gay all along and didn't know, but Jean picked up on it because I guess he subconsciously is a cumslut so she let him know he was gay as fact, regardless of his feelings or thoughts on the matter.
>>83777845
Nothing really changed.
>Uses magic
>Finds out her grandmother was an alien made of the stuff that powers magic
>Gains a similar form
Gwen still did magic stuff after the revelation.
>>83774095
The SBR-verse being completely unrelated to Made in Heaven. It would've been a little cool to have some continuity.
>>83774095
Rafael Scarfe turning evil
>>83776779
>The Best There Is, The Best There Was, And The Best There Ever Will Be
The Hitman is someone who makes me proud to share a hometown with.
>>83781411
>tfw you're from edmonton
>>83783062
At least Gretzky's still kicking.
>>83777830
Fuck off, the fun of multidimensional comics like Exiles and Extreme is seeing characters like these.
>>83777449
I regret wasting my time on such a piece of shit crapped out by Bendis.
>>83774095
new 52 Constantine
new 52 Tim Drake
Superman being overpowered by atlanteans, the whole new52 Aquaman run seriously nerfed the justice league just to make waterman look good
>>83777449
Why is this so bad? I haven't read it yet but I don't want to read to because all of you say is shit? What happened on this that almost all /co/ hate it?
>>83774704
>been straight all his comic run
>has a wife and kids in the future iirc
>just seconds earlier was basically 2 seconds from fapping furiously to his sexy teacher
>Nope, you're gay, can't possibly be straight.
>>83783752
>and definitely not bi, that's only half gay anyway and not a real identity
disgusting all around
>>83783509
JLD was good but damn Hellblazer was kinda disappointing.
>>83777528
How to unmarysue a character?
>>83784080
>How to ungarystu
unless rulk is your waifu
>>83775167
What exactly is wrong with Fury becoming the new watcher?
>>83784258
It's fucking retarded. Not the idea per se, but the whole story how he became the new watcher is pretty stupid.
Bear in mind The Watchers are supossed to be unkiillable.
>>83777597
>>83777528
Rulk was hilarious. You have to understand the context that first run was in, right until the end of World War Hulks there just wasn't any other book taking things so lightly. Everything was fucking Dark Reign and the buildup to Siege, and it was so fucking awful. It had been going on for two years, just relentlessly pushing the Norman thing to equally ridiculous heights as Rulk, but with the difference being that you were clearly expected to take Dark Reign seriously.
Meanwhile you've got this ripoff character, running around fucking up a major character's legacy, and nobody can stop him. A lot of people kind of knee-jerk shit on Rulk because they see Loeb's name, but the truth is it was fucking inspired. It was a way for the rest of us to keep reading Marvel comics even though the rest of the line was total bullshit, and as soon as the Heroic Age banner started right after Siege - which Loeb would have known about before he even started writing Rulk - they start redeeming the character and making it a more normal, hero-based book, only he's got this great backstory to work from where he's actually facing a challenge and he's not able to just call on the Avengers whenever he can't handle something.
It's canny storytelling, both from Loeb and Pak, and then later from Parker. At the very least you've got to accept that Pak and Parker did the best they could with what they had - and it was a lot better than some of the other shit coming out around it.
Specifically addressing the power levels thing - Norman Osborn was raping his way through 616 for two years. The crazy guy who was known to have to take sane pills and was still given control of the Thunderbolts, and then SHIELD. That guy.
It's not Rulk that's the cause.
>>83777528
Loeb's run was a blast, Parker's was shit
>>83777321
Loeb's Red Hulk run might be one of the worst runs Marvel has ever done. It was literally "My character beats up all your characters because he's the bestest: The Comic."
>>83783696
Read Thanos Imperative first, and then read GotG 18-20.
I promise you have never read anything this bad from Marvel. It is incredible how hard Bendis sucks on this. Civil War 2 is nowhere near as bad as this
>>83784301
Bullshit, Earth X has them very killable, and marvel likes to crib shit from AUs to do event type plots with
>>83774639
>After disassociating himself from Iron Man in Armor Wars just to keep the government from controlling his technology, Tony Stark suddenly turns full on government stooge "The law overrides all even if it is unethical, we MUST obey!"
wow this is a retarded example. Armor Wars was 17 years before Civil War. that's not fucking "suddenly"
I'm not even saying he wasn't out of character, just... holy shit use a better example
>>83783217
>Exiles
You reminded me that Claremont's tenure on the Exiles turned it to complete and utter shit.
>>83784360
>shitting on based Norman
nigga please
>>83777449
What happened? Is Nova officially dead now?
>>83775167
Sorry I liked the outcome for Fury but hated the story. The off chance we get a superpowered Fury struggling against his fate is slim but it's there and would be amazing
>>83783789
>JLD was good but
It was awful, man, and it was there that John Constantine started to get his character assassinated.
Holy fucking shit taste, man.
>>83777517
No, he was bare in his first appearance. He did get the trunks pretty early on, though.
>>83785060
Extremely dead. More dead than She Hulk and War Machine
Every time he gets mentioned now, he's somehow even more dead than before
>>83785060
Yeah, Sam died of Cancer. :^)
>>83784595
The Watcher's fate from Original Sin is clearly curbing from Earth-X at that. He may not have gotten killed in Earth-X, but him having his eyes ripped out was a major plotpoint of the book.
>>83785319
I wish Marvel had the balls to do that to Sam.
>>83784631
The underages lose sense of the passage of time when they get all their information from youtubers' character summaries.
>>83778622
>not knowing what your actual sexual orientation is from roughly puberty onward
k
>>83783696
It's a follow-up to a story that Bendis clearly didn't read. At least not in its entirety.
>>83783752
And then the people in favor of the twist are all like "Oh the subtext was always there".
>>83784360
>Hating based Norman Osbron.
Too bad.
>>83785060
He merged with a broken Cosmic Cube that only had enough power for one more shot (+ three hours apparently), became a "door", and just kind of vanished.
>>83785080
As long as Marcus Johnson is running around we will never see Actual Nick Fury in any form ever again.
>>83785153
did they EVER reveal what the huge fucking secret was that made him unworthy?????
shit pisses me off.
>>83787341
Not yet.
>>83777503
this pisses me off. My first comic I really got into was Spiderman: The Cosmic Adventures. I have it on my shelf and it is so worn down the spine has come off and pages are falling out. And he goes out like that.
>Pic related
>>83774246
nah - 2007 was where Spidey died.
We've been seeing Spidey v. 2.5 since then, who is a bad, bad copy of the real thing.
>>83787129
are there any chance that kobik is Richard
>>83774704
>This used to be a family guy joke
>Now it's canon.
>>83787683
I thought Kobik was a girl
>>83785282
You sure about that diagnosis? It WAS a comicbook death.
>>83777449
Man this realllly hurt cosmic marvel
>>83788332
He's been gone for 5 years and Marvel still won't accept that nobody wants Sam. His book is sitting at 15k and they still won't cancel it.
He has 0 chance of ever coming back
>>83788226
Kobik is the generic name for any cosmic cube that gains sentience.
There have been others.
>>83788378
That sounds like "Bucky logic" to me.
>>83788382
Richard has too many people working against him at Marvel
Jeph Loeb hates him, Bendis hates him, Brevoort hates him, and James Gunn hates him. I just don't see him ever coming back.
It's his 40th anniversary this year, and I don't think he's even gotten a mention outside of the Space Adventures of Sam Loeb.
Garnet my waifu playing baseball.
>>83788423
>Marvel has shit people controlling the industry
what else is new.
>>83778775
Except at first there were characters here and there that kept saying "there's no such thing as magic, it's just alien mana-manipulating powers" (such as Kevin and Gwen's parents). It was only after a whole lot of people complained that the writers backpedaled a little.
>>83788382
>Kobik is the generic name for any cosmic cube that gains sentience.
Since when?
>>83788423
>>83788514
There's a rule in good writing: You hurt the one you love.
There's also a rule about never writing a character you hate or don't understand.
Take your pick, because this "the most successful company in Comics is all crap writing" meme doesn't hold water.
>>83788652
I think it was something in stand off
>>83788382
There's only been Kubik, the other sentient cubes were the shaper of worlds and kosmos.
>>83777942
Didn't he also turn into snow in defenders
>>83774095
OMD
Peter literally makes a deal with the devil.
Thank god Kelly is going to undo it. Hopefully.
>>83787341
He mainsplained
>>83777658
Someone should slap her real hard for that.
>>83788622
This reminds me of people getting angry over MCU Thor downplaying/removing the magical elements and others getting angry at anyone who says anything about that because of broad definitions of science/technology and how Kirby creations liked to dance around the thin line between fantasy and sci-fi. Why don't you see these people in other fandoms whenever the subject of magic comes up?
>>83783696
basically a follow-up to a story written by someone who apparently didn't read the original, basically shits all over the sacrifice two characters made
>Story ends with characters making their sacrifice heroically
>Follow up starts with them nearly curling up in a fetal position crying about what an awful idea it was
Plus there were a number of plot details that were literally impossible due to events from the original story happening.
It was just completely fucking ridiculous, and was even theorized for a bit the follow up had to be taking place in a different alternate dimension of some sort.
>>83788707
Have you read any of their stuff lately? Their whole marketting strategy is to piss off their fans by butchering characters. The vast majority of Marvel's books, especially the suscessful ones you're referencing, are terrible and have been for years. Just look at the event books that sell so well before you equate success with quality.
>>83789024
>Plus there were a number of plot details that were literally impossible due to events from the original story happening.
Did Bendis get any flak for that?
>>83789253
I so want the last 11 or so years of Marvel to get retconned.
>>83774095
Magneto's train scene in DOFP
>>83788722
Yes, yes he did.
>>83789253
That approach is going to be around for years to come.
>>83789408
Is it never going to get even a bit better? It only started to get extreme in the later 2000s from what I remember
>>83776779
Unless you counter with a swift kick to the face.
>>83789253
Have you stopped to actually look at those "greatest years"?
How much shit rained down on those characters heads during those "wonderful stories from the past"???
How often did they do something fans bitched about at the time?
Just take for example Spiderman (from the"good" stories)
- He accidentally killed his girlfriend
- He wore a black costume and became violent edgy material
- He got married to the third girl he ever slept with
- He was always whining about how he had things so so bad
- Then there's the supporting cast... how many close friends of his just "randomly" happen to become his archenemies? How many enemies dated Aunt May?
You're asking for those stories to be the high bar of Marvel writing.
>>83789568
>He wore a black costume and became violent edgy material
Confirmed for having no fucking clue what you're talking about, that was only the movie.
>>83789568
>He wore a black costume and became violent edgy material
That was a retcon
>>83789470
In time, but only after a lot of the people in charge at marvel that push it are long gone, or the consumers stop buying into it completely. Either way it'll be quite a while till then.
>>83777942
It is wrong though. Holds like what Black Panther is applying require weight and leverage. Neither of which he could even attain in space.
>>83789620
>>83789643
Cute. Soft and cuddly Venom, gotcha.
And don't think I didn't notice how you're pretending there's no valid point because the Black costume wasn't evil enough.
- He grew four extra arms
- He discovered that his dead parents were secret agent spies
- He (for God's sake!) pulled a Clark Kent and reported on his own superheroing
- The moon rock werewolf
>>83774704
>Time-paradox literally make you gay
>>83789810
>Cute. Soft and cuddly Venom, gotcha.
We were talking about Peter Parker wearing the symbiote, he wasn't violent and edgy outside of adaptions or later retcons to that era.
>>83789810
Black Suit Spider-Man wasn't edgy, it just made him tired. Him violently rejecting the symbiote was what made it into one-half of Venom
>>83789447
I always see this page posted as being shocking but I've never known what's happening, who the character is and why I should care about their death.
>>83789915
Fan favorite new mutant gets one shot by Arcade for shock value
>>83789814
Don't you fret in your pink little panties over that...
They're going to eventually send him back in time and '60s Professor X is going to use mind control powers to put him back in the closet for his entire adult life.
He's going to forget all about accepting himself and instead be forced to conform to self-loathing and behaving how you want him to behave.
Doesn't that make you feel safe to know that you're going to get exactly what you want?
>>83789959
The problem is how the reveal was done and how Bobby's entire character centers around him being gay because that's how Bendis interprets Bobby's self-loathing mutant status. I don't think it was the best way to do it and the "full gay" comment is disrespectful if anything. What's your issue?
>>83789959
>Defending Bendis's hilarious writing
>Straight character has been straight over a decades and now turn gay due to Beast brought the young X-men to the present and stuck in the present.
>Time-paradox is literally make you gay
>>83789851
>>83789856
You're still pretending that you won some sort of point here, I remind you that you haven't.
You fondly reminisce with rose coloured glasses about all those wonderful stories of your childhood that you were too dumb at the time to see for the stupid shit that they were, and then you think you can pass judgement on anything published today.
You are total hypocrites.
>>83777658
Yeah. All in all Death Sentry did nothing wrong
>>83777942
S I N G U L A R I T I E S I N T H E I R E Y E S
>>83790115
>Childhood
I read them last month
>>83790022
Sure, sure, right, sure. I totally believe that ... that's what you have a problem with to this day.
>>83790115
>childhood
Jokes on you, my childhood Spider-Man comics were whatever random, crappy clone saga crossovers were happening at the time.
>>83790115
I only got into comics three years ago, brian
>>83790165
I don't bitch about it but I don't like it. Are you trying to say I can't be unsatisfied with this unless I have some genocidal hate of homosexuals? I don't see what's wrong with disliking how Bendis pulled it off
>>83775127
Even speaking as someone who HATED that, what they did to Spoiler was far, far worse.
The cherry on top was their response to people hating it though. People might like Didio now thanks to "Story Trumps Continuity" but back then, people were howling for his head.
>>83789959
>>83790165
fuck off to tumblr would you
>>83789959
Damn nigga you salty as shit that people don't like your precious little new faggot.
>>83790213
I'm saying you clearly have an issue with the concept that someone CAN be in the closet for their entire life.
It does, has, and will happen IRL as a natural aspect of gays existing in an intolerant society that presumes heteronormal as a standard, but somehow it's this inconceivable stretching of plausibility for it to happen with a comicbook character.
Grow up.
All this time the excuses for how the complaints aren't homophobia keep getting more and more strained.
What was yours? Bendis wrote it wrong!
How exactly was it going to be a better twist on the meeting your past self storyline than that? And it tied right into Jean's learning how to use telepathy.
Or maybe your complaint isn't homophobic, maybe it's that you just want shallow and meaningless stories that never touch on an easy to remember and ultimately pointless fluff comic status quo?
Evil future kid flash?
>>83790354
Funny, you don't write like a pink panty-wearing little girl who's heart is broken because the comic superhero she's crushing on turned out to be gay...
But WHO ELSE could have such an intense emotional investment in a comic character NOT being homosexual?????
This does seem like an interesting question to ask.
>: D
>>83790203
Casual spotted!
>>83790561
Dude, I never said I had an issue with Bobby being gay, please point out where I implied that. Besides that, are you saying it's impossible to dislike that issue? I NEED to like it unless I'm a bigot? Are you not trying to make this black and white? My point was the scene with Jean could at least have more tact. I can roll with the change to the status quo, I just don't think it was handled that well.
>>83790680
So you admit to knowing less than a casual
>>83790561
>It does, has, and will happen IRL as a natural aspect of gays existing in an intolerant society that presumes heteronormal as a standard
Dude's a mutant. He lived in a school full of mutants going through the same shit: existing in an intolerant society that didn't wanted to accept them as they were. He was schooled by other mutants that constantly taught and reminded them to accept themselves as they were and use their identity to help others.
Bobby feeling bad for being guy in such a place is bullshit.
>>83790638
So much energy expended on defending faggotry and not a damn thing changes, lol.
>>83790779
Tolerant about what? Everyone was mutant, who else was gay?
Scott? He was too into redheads.
Hank? He was suspiciously jolly, but they canon psy-checked him for gay in the Morrison run.
Warren? Bobby should be so lucky.
Jean? ... nevermind.
I don't think the '60s X mansion was as nice to it's first students as the modern school.
>>83790937
>Hank? He was suspiciously jolly
Now you're stereotyping too? The guy was talking about Bobby's entire life where he dealt with other gay X-Men and not just 60s Bobby
Also you forgot to reply to me >>83790734
>>83790803
In case you can't follow a conversation, and I know you can't, the topic of debate was if or if not the complaints about Iceman were based in petty bigotry.
Who do you think your post has helped? To prove their point and all?
>>83790937
>Tolerant about what? Everyone was mutant, who else was gay?
So only gay people can be tolerant towards other gays? Come on.
>I don't think the '60s X mansion was as nice to it's first students as the modern school.
Then explain to me how the teen versions from the past have all accepted Bobby as gay. I don't see teen Cyclops, teen Beast or teen Angel giving teem Ice Man crap for coming out as gay thanks to teen Jean. They all accepted him and he would've been accepted in the past as well.
There was no reason for being feeling like he should act as straight. Specially when he already came out and accepted himself as a mutant in the first place. If you can accept yourself as a mutant, something that is far worse in the Marvel Universe than liking dudes, accepting yourself as a gay man is a peace of cake. Specially when you're surrounded by a bunch of brave people that went through the hardship of accepting themselves and coming out as mutants despite that posing a legitimate threat to their lives.
This whole closeted thing is stupid.
>>83776816
Cap was right and Stark was wrong.
>>83791003
>Bigotry is real, and I'm not just a whiny bitch!
k
>>83791085
It's more like bigotry is real AND he's whiny but that's my opinion
>>83789285
Do you think it matters?
>>83790981
First: "Jolly" is a synonym for one meaning of the word "gay", it doesn't get much more gay than being jolly. Literally. As a pun.
As for the missed post: Outing is a part of gay existence for all gay people, weird ways that things happen is a cornerstone of X-Men stories, finding fault with the mixing of the two when you're a fan of the X-Men means that you probably don't have a problem with doing things in a weird way. So it's likely the outing alone that upsets you. It's a fairly obvious logical deduction.
If you're confused as to why being unwilling to accept the process of someone coming out as a legitimate story element brands you as at least partially homophobic: I remind you that gay people don't have many options, it's part of the whole deal. Hate it all or none.
Plus I imagine all comming outs are horrible to experience, that's the reality so why should the fiction be pleasant?
>>83791189
I know and I'm saying you're stereotyping, you do know it's possible for you to have some close minded views to work out as well, right?
>>83789959
This is the big problem with Bobby's coming out.
One, he doesn't realize it on his own. Literally, Jean just says to him. You're gay. Bobby does not have any sort of autonomy over his coming out of the closet. He does not realize it on his own and basically is insulted into revealing his sexual identity. The second worse part being is that it is treated as okay that Jean does this to Bobby.
But the worse part... The absolute worse part is what it does to present Bobby. All the relationships, the one he had with Polaris which defined quite a bit of his character, his relationship with Mystique all the other women he was involved with. They were invalidated and Bobby was revealed to be in the closet.
Seriously fuck everything about Bendis' run on GoTG and X-Men. It fucks everything good about both franchises and combined with Aaron's shittiness, it's nearly killed the X-franchise.
>>83791189
Does it help if I tell you that most X-Men reveals like this bother me? The "full gay" line was not tactful what so ever and I wish we didn't have just that scene and now his character revolving around being gay instead of being Iceman. This isn't a bigotry thing
>>83777620
Then why hasent the general public complained about Supermans shitty costumes of late
>>83791037
>come on. Yourself.
The whole premise of the X Mansion was that it's the place where mutants are allowed to be mutants. It was based upon the isolationist concept that instant intolerance would be the problem if mutants intermingled with humans, how was that an example to Bobby that blanket acceptance would follow if he revealed to his fellow mutants that he was different from them too?
>...nice...
Bobby's no precog, how would he know that he wouldn't lose any friends/only people in his life that accept him for being a mutant.
Closeted keeps some people alive, stupid or not there's a reason Project Wideawake was an ominous threat to mutantkind storyline.
>>83791189
Coming out as gay is not worse or harder than coming out as mutant. The very concept of a closeted gay mutant is fucking stupid. Mutant heroes should be a lot more open-minded than that.
>>83791309
>how was that an example to Bobby that blanket acceptance would follow if he revealed to his fellow mutants that he was different from them too?
He was. Bobby could freeze things. None of them could do that. Cyclops can shoot with his eyes. Angel has chicken wings on his back. Beast can walk on walls and use his feet as hands. Jean can read everybody's minds. They're all different from each other. What unites them is the struggle they face together, not what and how they're who they're.
>Bobby's no precog, how would he know that he wouldn't lose any friends/only people in his life that accept him for being a mutant.
Because they accepted him as a mutant. Period. Being gay is not worse than being mutant. It will never be. Dude fucking dated Mystique.
>>83783789
At least his dcyou run was decent.
I don't see why people despise jld so much though sure it had some pretty major flaws but it wasent that bad.
>>83791457
That said
>>83785228
Is right that's where the fucking of John started.
He was great in sword of sorcery though
Ugh. Anons, it's like 5 in the morning here - so this is the last response:
>>83791222
Damned right I do, nobody knows another's experiences. I make wrong assumptions just like everyone else.
>>83791236
1 - Yeah, he had no choice in the matter, but it wasn't Jean's choice either because she didn't get a choice about having telepathy that she wasn't trained for. And it's not the conversation that was him getting outed, it was the accidental discovery itself, Jean then had a responsibility to Bobby to tell him that she knew.
2 - That is the worst part if you think sex is the sum total of a relationship, you can still love someone without having a gratifying sex live. These relationships were still meaningful even if they were doomed from the beginning.
>>83791250
The "everyone's a little bi" line has been out there in the world forever, it's not true, even though sexuality is complicated there are still people who can't understand the attractions others enjoy, that is normal but not a reason to judge. Jean was saying something idiotic to be comforting in an awkward moment, that happens. I hate it too, but portraying that typical reaction isn't endorsing the stupid thing said. Give the writer some credit.
And the "revolving around being gay" complaint IS invalid. You don't retcon away someone being outed, in AllNew' young Bobby has been awkwardly avoiding the topic, going out of his way to not have it define him, adult Bobby isn't that tactful so far. Both are normal reactions as far as I know.
>>83791487
Sword of Sorcery was a bad Amethyst book, though. So no win there.
>>83791517
It was ok for me but that's likely because I haven't gotten round to reading the original
>>83791487
One thing I did like about constantines new 52 book was his magic knife summoning.
I know that's not the sort of magic John practices usually but it always just felt off that he never bothered to learn a simple spell for creating a dagger.
Although I'm only up to issue 91 so maybe he learns later on.
>>83791513
Fair enough, I never came to the conclusion it should be tossed out the window (though I have the feeling eventually he's going to be made bi by some butthurt writer in the future), just that this was a really rough start
Bobby being gay makes no sense. Why not Angel?
Fuck, Morrison made fun of this shit with Beast during his NXM run.
I can't believe there are people defending this retcon. Want a gay mutant? Why don't use the ones that are around like Anole? The fucking truth is that Bendis knew his run was a big-fucking nothing and wanted to win his brownie points.
>>83791513
>Give the writer some credit.
>Bendis
>>83791573
Why would Constantine summon a dagger? You can buy one and keep it in your pocket.
>>83776618
It did teach us an important lesson though.
The only REAL way to solve your problems is to push those problems onto somebody else!
Let those fuckers deal with it now.
>>83791679
Didn't he promise some fan on his tumblr that there'd be a gay character somewhere and one he was working on got killed by another writer so he kinda asspulled Bobby? I thought I heard that there was some weird story behind it
>>83791736
He introduced the shape-shifting gay dude, but that one wasn't killed off.
Either way he turned Bobby gay for PR stunt. Plain and simple. It came at the tail end of his run out of nowhere, despite old Bobby being a relationship with Kitty throughout his book.
>>83789285
Of course not. You think anybody reads GotG who didn't come there from the movie? Nobody gives a fuck about Abnett and Lanning's run any more, no matter how great it was or how many properties have been spawned from it in the last two years.
Plus, Bendis is Marvel's main guy. He writes their events and has one of the most celebrated runs on Spider-Man and Daredevil. Everything he does is gold, according to editorial, despite the fact that he's responsible for a massive chunk of the examples ITT.
....
I'm sorry, I'm just really bitter over Bendis-Guardians. I miss good Cosmic capes.
>>83791573
But that defeats the purpose of John Constantine, which is that he's smart enough to get out of these situations without having to resort to magic laser-blasts or summoned knives.
The worst thing DC ever did to Constantine was put him in action-centric comic books and expect him to keep up.
Shit, remember that bit in JLD where he stocks up on magical artifacts out of the ARGUS vault and goes to fight Faust like Human Torch at the end of Fantastic 4 2? I do, it's the only thing of JLD I do remember.
>>83791823
I remember John treating Zee like shit and she coming back for more because they were eternal lovers or some shit. Fuck, man. DeMatteis' run was easily the worst one there and i don't know how that happened. Even the art was bad
>>83791189
Coming out wasn't terrible for me, though. In fact my old man literally said, "Yeah, big fucking deal, your brother's in prison." Which, let's be fair here, THAT did suck, but it had nothing to do with me being a faggot.
>>83791855
God, imagine a world where we got an atmospheric horror comic with vibrant characters that we'd grown to love over decades of exposure?
Instead we got Nightmare Nurse. Probably the least-original or interesting OC in the history of comics.
And we're going to get an animated film based on it instead of a Guillermo Del Toro film. God, being a DC horror fan is suffering.
>>83789915
>>83789944
And never came back but I think it's for the best as he would be written badly
>>83791513
>Jean then had a responsibility to Bobby to tell him that she knew.
Y'know what? I am a faggot. And this is wrong. No one else has a fucking MORAL RESPONSIBILITY to make observations about my character. Not a fucking soul, aside from the one in this body. So fuck RIGHT off with your fucking bullshit. It helps no one and harms many.
>>83774095
>doctor octopus cucks peter parker in every imaginable way
>thor can't lift his hammer anymore, some weak ass feminist can though and some shitty elf cuts off his arm in a badly drawn fight
>cyclops is terrorist now you guys
>Invincible gets raped and adopts a fat fetish
Just from the top of my head. So much bullshit in the last years.
>>83791945
>>doctor octopus cucks peter parker in every imaginable way
As shit as this was, Doc Ock admitting Peter was superior was a fucking golden moment.
I am amazed that there hasn't been a single mention of Taskmaster's "tragic backstory" memory loss shit in this thread
>>83777503
>>Haha I'm strong. You have no chance
>>Haha, but this is my real power, you have no chance
>>Hahahaha, but no, you see, I can do this. You are doomed.
>>Hahahahaha, you fool. I knew what you would do all along. Have at you!
Fuck, that was cringy to read.
>>83784360
>hating on Dark Reign
>praising Loeb Rulk
End yourself.
>>83784360
I can understand your reasoning: Loeb's Rulk was supposed to be this bright comic-booky punchy pulp in the current understandingly dark canon sea of Bad Guys Won. You might even say it was focused more for kids who love to see their favorite characters (even if they're both "good guys") face off against each other and have random team-ups FOR WHATEVER REASON.
I definitely get it. I thought Loeb's run was silly as shit. Not even exactly "bad writing", just not for the continuity hounds that most long-term older comic books fans have become. I bought several issues & a trade in that run, and I don't regret it. The art for all of it looks damn good, too.
>>83791823
Oh in general I agree but the lack of a dagger just always bothered me a little.
That said it's such a minor thing that it nowhere near makes up for the rest of that series
And speaking of the wrong that comes from John in action centric comics that fucking panel where he shields himself from that explosion was retarded
>>83791897
Hey nightmare nurse was a great character one of the few good things to come from jld
Although knowing our luck with dc magic lately they will probably ruin her by forgeting about the healing side of things.
>>83791513
>1 - Yeah, he had no choice in the matter, but it wasn't Jean's choice either because she didn't get a choice about having telepathy that she wasn't trained for. And it's not the conversation that was him getting outed, it was the accidental discovery itself, Jean then had a responsibility to Bobby to tell him that she knew.
No. No one has the fucking right to tell anyone their sexuality. Even if they are so far in the closet that they're paying rent, you don't have the right. I mean go with the Emma Frost story which Bendis will probably use as justification for making Bobby gay. She enters his mind. After she enters it, she treats him differently. That is an ETHICAL thing to do. Just because you know someone is gay, doesn't give you a right to say 'This defines you'. They need to find out on their own. I mean as a bi man, that issue was fucking insulting to me and probably the majority of people who have had problems with their sexuality
>2 - That is the worst part if you think sex is the sum total of a relationship, you can still love someone without having a gratifying sex live. These relationships were still meaningful even if they were doomed from the beginning.
I never said anything whatsoever about Bobby's sex life. Hell, I never even mentioned it. The reason that I felt that the whole "I'm Gay" ruined it was that, all of Bobby's development was ruined. See those relationships all were about Bobby maturing as a man. Letting go of the woman he loved, having a woman leave him, breaking him out of his selflessness, all of that was rendered moot. For it turned out that Bobby had never really developed or faced his problems.
>>83792528
>Hey nightmare nurse was a great character one of the few good things to come from jld
She wasn't, bro.
>>83792561
A magical healer means you can write more fights that result in injury without putting the character out of action for a few weeks.
>>83792585
>She's a good character because you can beat her to the extent that would kill a normal person and then she can return, unharmed, next issue
So, she's every comic book character ever?
Night Nurse was a 50s-tier villain, an entire character based on her alliterative title, with no discerning traits or real importance to the (barely existing) story. But they included her in a book populated by creative horror characters, and made her the closest thing they had to a recurring villain, which made her all the more laughably bad.
>>83792812
No other characters she can heal.
>>83792842
Amazing. It's not like Zatanna, Constantine or Swamp Thing can heal things with magic.
You're right, she's an essential character and I'm glad to have her in the DC horror mythos. Someone call Gaiman, we've got a supporting character for Sandman 12!
>>83787583
>2007
>Way past Peter's robot parents, the Clone Saga, Gathering of Five, The End, The Next Chapter, Sins Past, Spider Totem, Sins Remembered, and all the bullshit inbetween
I'm guessing you haven't been reading comics that long.
>>83787341
They still haven't thought of a reason yet.
>>83776632
Can't the surfer meld through solid objects.
How would a hold even work on him lol
>>83789889
What was the secret?
Adopted? Gaaay? Dad worked for evil group? Skrull with amnesia?
>>83787341
It wasn't a secret it was a magic spell
>>83787341Thor will kill Jane Foster
>>83793612
You can't post anything from Injustice, you'd have to post everything from Injustice.
>>83793648
>Implying Injustice isn't the only comic worth reading
k
>>83787341
>YOU'RE A WHITE MALE
>>83793612
injustice is cheating
hilarious, schlocky cheating
>>83791956
No the whole thing was shit. And Otto didn't learn a damn thing. This was the only good thing from that shitty ending that not even Spock fags liked.
>>83791956
Was it really?
Because as drawn out and aggravating as Superior was, they Slott somehow managed to make the ending feel rushed as hell. After all the shit Spock went through to erase Peter, he just magically decides the world needs him back just in time to wrap up the story arc. It didn't feel like the threat was big enough, not to mention Spock was just written to be a more assholish spiderman, and less of a Doc Ock.
>>83793917
I think it's accurate to say it worked as a line but failed as an ending
Three different Jokers from the three great historic eras of the DC Universe coexisting and commitong crimes side by side to eachother at the sime time in the currect DC Universe - and nobody fucking noticing that there are three jokers running around America - takes the cake for me.
>>83794211
Ok yeah that one was the worst one by far
>>83783752
Marvel has said before "if it changed nothing to make them a women or minority, them in every reason we should do it"
It's the era of progressive credit
Basically if it doesn't contradict literally everything, they'll make them something these days.
>>83794345
Do you have a source? I'm interested in reading that
>>83794396
I'm paraphrasing it somewhat , probably should have mentioned that. Mainly because I don't remember the full quote enough to look it up at the moment.
