>>83699562
>Yeah, Batman being a killer was completely due to Snyder's direction. The story makes a big deal out of Batman branding people who later get killed in prison, which doesn't make sense at all if he'd already been going around turning people into paste.
> So Goyer and Terrio at least kinda tried to do a story where Batman indirectly kills people, and then Snyder went "Fuck that, imma have him DIRECTLY kill people."
Can someone give me a logical reason as to why EVERYONE likes to pretend that BVS was the first and only movie where Batman directly kills someone and that a killer Batman is solely the invention of Zack Snyder?
Before you answer please watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psVIG7YvdjM
>>83705318
Not muh MCU
>>83705318
The majority of /co/'s knowledge of batman begins and ends at Snyder's run/Morrison's run and TAS.
>>83705424
And even Morrison said Batman killed at the start of his career
>>83705318
>>Can someone give me a logical reason as to why EVERYONE likes to pretend that BVS was the first and only movie where Batman directly kills someone and that a killer Batman is solely the invention of Zack Snyder?
The problem with this is that alot of people were looking for these movies to be a film representation of their favorite characters and more than just an elseworld
Since the Justice League and DCU was being built we wanted to see our heroes and villians portrayed accurately
Also the movie does a poor job of letting the viewer know that Manslaughter is a recent Batman trait and wasn't always his M.O.
>>83705318
>batman kills now
>joker is still alive
I don't think people would mind if he was at least consistent.
>>83705318
I have a question, why the fuck would you make a thread to defend Snyder?
He's basically a high functioning retard and both his DC movies were shit, not to mention making practically a 1:1 recreation of Watchmen and not only missing the point but somehow making a bad movie.
Like someone stated before, just because Batman did it in the past doesn't make it okay now.
However, I've never been completely against Batman killing.
>>83705521
Morrison is a retard
>>83705532
I don't think it does a poor job at all. Especially with those heavy handed conversations he has with Alfred about people turning bad/his obvious alcoholism and mental issues. People just don't like this version of Batman and/or are too lazy to comprehend shit that is presented right before their eyes.
>>83705532
>The problem with this is that alot of people were looking for these movies to be a film representation of their favorite characters and more than just an elseworld
Since the Justice League and DCU was being built we wanted to see our heroes and villians portrayed accurately
Fair enough
>Also the movie does a poor job of letting the viewer know that Manslaughter is a recent Batman trait and wasn't always his M.O.
Well Alfred himself pretty much acknowledges this in his "cruel men" speach to Bruce. Also say what you will about the killing, at least this movie actually acknowledges that he lost his was and that what he is doing is wrong. The other movies pretty much just ignore it completely. Batman is throwing motherfuckers of clock towers and shit and the Gotham PD are just fine with it.
>>83705545
>I have a question, why the fuck would you make a thread to defend Snyder?
>Introducing a logical argument= defending Snyder
It's funny how emotionally involved people are about Snyder where you can pose a simple argument or question and this is construed as a "defense", even when everything in the OP is a fact with proof right there in the vid.
BVS isn't the first time on screen Batman has offed people, FACT.
Snyder wasn't the first director to do this, FACT.
Snyder however is the only one to actually get called on it, FACT.
>>83705618
But he did kill at the start of his career.
Plus, he killed KGBeast in the comics.
>>83705616
Thing is nobody is saying it's ok now. But it makes no sense to me why it was ignored or seldom brought up before and now it's an issue. Before BVS even came out, people were going on and on about how Keaton was the best Batman, never once mentioning he killed a lot of people, so obviously it didn't bother people all that much before. But it does now all of a sudden
>>83705318
>Can someone give me a logical reason as to why EVERYONE likes to pretend that BVS was the first and only movie where Batman directly kills someone and that a killer Batman is solely the invention of Zack Snyder?
We don't. People complained just as hard about the "I don't have to save you" bit in Begins.
With BvS the complaints are because of the failure of context. It's hard to buy Batman taking issue with Superman's destructive methods when he gives no shits about collateral or killing and vice versa.
>>83706235
>Snyder however is the only one to actually get called on it, FACT.
This is where you're wrong but keep telling yourself that.
THE BAT BRAND OF JUSTICE: HAS THE BATMAN GONE TOO FAR!?
Reports from Gotham Penitentiaries claim the Bat Brand is the equivalent of a death sentence inside!
Also, fighting Batman in his car or plane is not the equivalent, it is an absolute death sentence. His moral code only applies when he's on foot so be on the lookout criminals!
NEXT TIME THEY SHINE YOUR LIGHT IN THE SKY, DON'T GO TO IT. THE BAT IS DEAD! CONSIDER THIS MERCY, because you see in the original script I would have confronted you due to your vigilantism and rampant brutalization of Gotham's citizens but given you the benefit of the doubt since many of your pursuits lead to criminal convictions. Now, me telling you this here, right after you just acted as judge, jury and executioner against what looked like a peaceful shipment of a rock, doesn't make any sense, almost as if this scene and previous branding concept belong to a different script - one where Batman doesn't kill.
Consider this mercy for those murders you just committed! Next time, I will bring you in!
>>83705318
>fucking up 19 times means fucking up the 20th is okay
Shut up retard
>>83706235
Snyder made versions of the heroes that nobody likes, who cares about the reasons, they're just not enjoyable to watch.
If the movies were good, people would forgive the batman killing stuff.
>>83706355
>It's hard to buy Batman taking issue with Superman's destructive methods when he gives no shits about collateral or killing and vice versa.
It's not about Superman's detructive methods during Man of Steel. There's a bit of that, yes, but it's mostly Batman wanting to die doing something great and thinking - Well, i didn't managed to do shit and now i want to kill myself while offing people. What will happen when Superman come to the same conclusion?"
>>83706235
You're either 1.jpgfag or a retard, but people shit on Nolan all the time in just about any board for NOT MUH BATMAN so enjoy your denial I guess
>>83706530
>but given you the benefit of the doubt since many of your pursuits lead to criminal convictions.
Why? Why would Superman give Batman the benefit of doubt when he knows what Batman does and is currently doing?
>>83705545
That pic would be a lot better if you weren't using Bale's Batman. He sounded stupid whenever he talked.
>when an Avenger kills people in the movies it's ok
>when batman does it it's not
>>83707000
>Hey you crazy person beating criminals half to death, stop doing that I can save everyone, they dont need you anymore k thanks bye!
vs
>Hey you crazy person I know I just saw you shoot at a harmless security convoy and murder several people but Im gonna let you off with a warning this time while the bodies of the men you just murdered burn in the street okay pal?
>>83707745
B-but anon all ornate MCU movies are actually GOOD. I loved all the jokes in Civil War's airport fight! Everything Marvel does is so comfy!
So why does getting branded get you killed in prison. Makes little sense to me.
>>83707000
You mean saving people? Like those women from the human trafficker?
Too bad they weren't called Lois, otherwise maybe Superman would have bothered saving them.
>>83707745
>>when an Avenger kills people in the movies it's ok
they never said they wouldnt kill but lets gets some thing straight if we got a spider man movie where peter started snapping necks left and right, all hell would brake lose.
>>83708127
>it's ok when Marvel does it
I bet you also think the blatant product placement in the MCU is fine but Sears and IHOP in MoS was awful
>>83705616
the killing itself isnt what bothers me about it.. Its that in BvS batman was just slaughtering people without and care for the consequences.. he was pretty much a serial killer at the rate the movie was going. Batman was never a character that killed hench men..id understand it if it was a villian who committed an unspeakable crime.. but this batman killed ANYONE who got in his way.
>>83708376
to add on to the point.. The core structure of why bruce wayne turned into batman was because he didnt want anyone elses parents dying etc... and he basically threw all that morality out the window for the sake of convenience. And if batman is one thing its a moral fag
>>83707745
I'm amazed that anyone still uses this as an argument.
Heroes killing isn't a deal breaker, most of them do kill. But the big three pop icons, Superman, Batman and Spider-man, should have strict no killing rules. It's integral to their characters, especially Batman.
>>83705318
Was anyone else upset that they wasted this completely badass shot near the end, where it's just Batman coming up to see Superman's corpse?
Like, holy fuck. That is such a badass shot. It's probably the most 'Batman' shot to ever grace any live-action movie. In the trailers, it LOOKED like Batman rising out of the flames to kick some ass, and then it turned out to be nothing.
I hope they give us more shots like that for the solo Batman movies.
>>83709033
wow, look at this guy who doesn't read comics. Son, Superman and Batman were all killing left and right in the golden age. Even post crisis, Batman killed KGBeast and Superman killed Zod and all his friends. And Spider-Man kills all the time, don't even get me started.
>>83708376
He directly kills something like six people in the movie, giving him a lower body count than pretty much any other Batman.
>>83708444
It wasn't sake of convenience. Its laid out pretty much, he's turned into a bigger dark force after Robin's death and the Metropolis disaster was the last straw.
He put his guilt over one death into another pursuit.
>>83706756
>If the movies were good, people would forgive the batman killing stuff.
So you admit to being hypocrites then. At least you're honest
>>83706756
The worst thing is that some people really like these movies.
>>83710489
I know right? It's ridiculous, there weren't even any jokes.
>>83710489
>The worst thing is people having a different opinion than i
That's a symptom of Asperger's right?
>>83705318
The old movies hardly count. They were basically live action cartoons; if you don't see the body they aren't dead.
>>83710783
>>83710952
Batman didn't kill Penguin. Two-Face "died" by accident.
>>83705542
They love each other
>>83711070
Accidentally reaching for his coin amidst all the coins batman threw at him.
By that logic KGBeast died when hus flamethrower tank accidentally exploded
>Batman was willing to bust into Lex's cell and consider branding him despite everyone saying Supes restored his faith in humanity
>hasn't flat out killed the Joker
How do they justify this?
>>83711317
He didn't brand Lex though
>>83711336
I said consider.
>>83711317
he wa just fucking with Lex, he never considered it
>>83709521
>after Robin's death
The problem is that we see Robin's suit for one shot, and they never mention him or the Joker verbally. Hell, I talked to some of my non comic reading friends, and they couldn't tell it was Robin until I told them (it's brown, not red and green, and covered in spray paint). They should have made the factor much more important.
>>83707745
a·venge
verb
inflict harm in return for (an injury or wrong done to oneself or another).
synonyms: requite, punish, repay, pay back, revenge, take revenge for, take vengeance for, exact
jus·tice
noun
just behavior or treatment.
"a concern for justice, peace, and genuine respect for people"
>Gee, why do people hold the JUSTICE League to different standards than the AVENGERS
>>83711571
Killing is justice too, fuckwad.
>>83711571
au·tism/ˈôˌtizəm/
noun
a mental condition, present from early childhood, characterized by difficulty in communicating and forming relationships with other people and in using language and abstract concepts.
>>83711395
So you wanted to be spoonfed?
>>83711681
Not the kind of justice most people associate with DC.
>>83711699
What is your point here? Isn't the guy I'm replying to autistic for not understanding why people treat DC characters and Marvel characters differently?
>>83709521
But Bruce doesn't give a shit about Jason. I don't get it.
>>83711823
The Avengers were created in the 60s when nobody killed in the comics, you're being autistic saying it's ok for The Avengers to kill because of the definition of the word avenge.
>>83711928
And there was a time that Batman killed a lot but nowadays one of the things he's most known for is not killing.
What's your point?
>>83711903
Don't forget
>>83712000
>And there was a time that Batman killed a lot
yeah it was for less than a year in 1939
He's killed more people in the movies since 1989 than he ever did in the comics.
Please show me an example of Iron Man blowing a hole in somebody's chest and calmly walking away in the comics
>>83711903
>But Bruce doesn't give a shit about Jason
that's not true tho
unless they retconned it
Batman didn't kill because of Robin's death, although that served an influence.
Batman didn't kill because of Gotham never changing, although that served an influence.
Batman didn't kill because of the Metropolis attack, although that served an influence.
Batman felt such an utter feeling of powerlessness and inadequacy that who he was, the values he upheld, his whole crusade... felt meaningless. He had no sense of identity anymore, no purpose left. He felt small, weak and lost.
The only thing he could do, the only thing he felt he could do to give him a sense of self, a sense of purpose, was to kill Superman. He didn't had a good reason. He just felt threatened by Superman. His bullshit reason, that he gave Alfred, was that the same would end up happening with Superman eventually and if that happened Superman could very well obliterate everyone, so he was pretty much saving the world or something., but in truth that was just his rationalization. He wanted to kill Superman because Superman made him feel even more powerless.
So once he decided to cross that like: kill Superman, the whole code didn't mattered anymore. Nothing mattered anymore. He told Alfred this. They were always criminals.
The whole movie is about three dudes coming to blows because their sense of masculinity was threatened. The fact that most people somehow didn't managed to get that surprises me a lot. I mean, even in the trailers you've the characters going on and on about how weak and inadequate feel and how they just feel like punching one another.
>>83712099
>>83711760
No, dipshit, I wanted them to go more in depth with arguably the most important event between Batman and Joker.
>>83712239
>>83712344
That's literally what the Batfleck solo movie is going to be
>>83712099
I agree with you but Iron man doesn't exactly have a no kill code or anything.
>>83712392
How is that relevant?
>>83712426
In two year.
BVS was nearly 3 hours long, yet Snyder and the editors decided the minute long piss scene was worth it instead of explaining Robin.
>>83712600
So you need to be spoonfed?
>>83712644
>No argument, just insults
If your audience has to have prior knowledge of the comics to explain your story, than you've fucked up.
Now I need some sleep, but keep on suckin Snyder's dick.
>>83712758
>Robin suit with HAHA JOKES ON YOU BATMAN spray painted on it
It's not my fault your friends can't read
>>83705318
I just want to know why he won't kill the Joker now?
>>83712889
But who could it be it says hahaha and jokes on you that could be anybody.is it gordon?
>>83713015
Because this fuck it just murder em thing supposed to be somehow a new thing and he just hasnt seen him since he said fuck it and who knows where the fuck is joker right?He just lost his way and got on track after his interaction with murderman(superman)
Remember how Batman just outright killed Two Face in TDK? No one remember that?
Or how he was an outright killer in Batman 1989?
>>83713745
B-but those weren't directed by Hack Snyder
>>83713745
he fell with two face and did that to save a kid
he was also out of options
>>83710576
>>83713831
Bad writing then
>It was a lazy story convenience. Superman's single motivation for fighting Batman was aversion to Batman's vigilantism and bloodlust.
Lazy writing.
>>83708247
Why did you ignore his point? If Spider-Man started killing people left and right there would be fucking riots in the streets outside of Marvel HQ.
>>83714477
The point is nobody cared about batman killing in the movies until 2016 when he's been doing it since 1989. MCU movies come along with their heroes killing people left and right and all of of sudden it's bad for Batman to blow some shit up
>>83714574
Because he still has a "no-guns, no killing" mentality. He doesn't do it unless it's absolutely necessary or unless his life is threatened.
He doesn't act like the guy from Super, now does he?
>>83714585
Batman has killed people in every movie since 1989. Why start holding DC movies to comic accuracy now, and not Marvel movies which also veer widely from the source material
>>83714617
I would think it's because in the old movies they didn't make a huge deal about it, they didn't keep mentioning it in interviews and make a huge deal out of him killing people.
>Old movies
Batman kills when he needs to, otherwise he's a hero. Marketed as a hero.
>New movie
Marketing mentions he kills and is sick and tired of it all, still a hero but this time they talk about him like he's The Punisher.
>>83714585
How is Batman dropping the tire grenade on all those people in 89 any better than Batman blowing the guys shooting at him up from the air in current year?
>>83714634
>marketing mentions kills
Literally when?
>>83705318
I've seen /co/ always complain when batman kills people in all his movies. You have to remember mos /co/mrades grew up on BTAS and thats their version.
>>83707933
The logic appears to be that it outs the inmate as somebody ESPECIALLY bad to the point other inmates are disgusted and then kill that person.
I'm not really sure if it makes any sense but that appears to be the angle here.
Batman is one of the most uninteresting superhero characters, and is basically a gary stu. We joke about it with 'prep time' and bullshit like that but Batman is nigh unstoppable. Him not killing is the ONLY interesting thing about him, and it gave him a constant dilemma.
Otherwise, he's just grimdark.
>>83714666
Well, not the advertising which you're thinking of but almost all interviews with Zack talks about it when they focus on Batman.
>>83709242
Yeah, if you ignore the part where hes swing a car around, smash populated buildings
>>83705318
>Can someone give me a logical reason as to why EVERYONE likes to pretend that BVS was the first and only movie where Batman directly kills someone and that a killer Batman is solely the invention of Zack Snyder?
Dude you quoted from the previous thread here. There issue, like everything else in this movie, is in HOW the killing is presented.
1. Burton and Schumacher films don't explore the moral and socio-political implications of Batman. They're set in a whimsical cartoony world where Batman is a straight superhero who fights campy megalomaniacs with ridiculous evil plans, picks up cheers from the adoring crowd and then goes back home for tea. They never bring up the question of Batman's morality so we don't engage them on that level. BvS is ALL about Batman's morality and, like in so many other aspects, fails completely at tackling it. If the movie spends two hours hitting your over the head with the question "Is it right for Batman to do this?" Then naturally you're gonna view it through that lens. And unlike Nolan's movie, BvS fails to present even a tepid defense for Batman's actions in the movie.
2. Snyder is just so damn excessive. In the old movies the scenes of Batman killing someone are played as wacky hijinks with emphasis on camp rather than the brutality of Batman administering lethal force against someone. Snyder on the other hand is all about the brutal force. Every action scene in BvS it's like he's saying "LOOK AT BATMAN BREAKING BONES AND TURNING PEOPLE INTO ROADKILL. IS THAT NOT THE COOLEST SHIT EVER???" And naturally many people disagreed.
Now does that mean that Batman killing in the old movies was justified as opposed to BvS? No. What it means is that Snyder is a shitty director with a brutality boner who has no idea what the strengths and limitations of the tone he's working with are.
>>83714937
Don't bother, anon, I think I've explained this at least a dozen of times in the last few months
But if I might add, Nolan contextualized the killings too. In those movies the no-kill rule is established and then broken with precise reasons or consequences (only exception being Bane's death, but Bats didn't do it and a bomb was about to explode, so there wasn't really time for a proper reaction or debate)
>>83714937
This.
Snyder tries to be thought provoking and then he and his fans whine whine the audience's thoughts are provoked. They laud the movie for "starting a discussion' and then chimp out when there's any actual disagreement present in that discussion.
>>83706530
>the Bat Brand is the equivalent of a death sentence inside!
This is dumb. Why being catch by the batman would be worse than by the police? And even if the brand says "I am a criminal" that's also so what gang tattoo does, so it doesn't matter in jail.
>>83705618
"This simple comic book writer is a moron, but I am a genius, I know all."
>>83705542
This. Leto should be more than dead right now.
Unless that rumor is true and he legit is Jason Todd. I hope not, but it'd make sense why Bats would think twice before killing him.
>>83709159
Examples of Spider-Man killing?
Who else but Batman fans will get so whiny when their hero is portrayed as the vigilante he is?
>>83712137
I thought only Superman was forced and threatened via his mum instead of masculinity?
>>83705318
Let me say something.
I'm a big DCAU fag and as such, I love batgod with no killing rule.
However. I would have zero problem with batman killing in the DCEU. The idea that he's too heartbroken after Jason and is pushed too extremes is acceptable. It's fine, it's not what I'm used to, but it's a take that can work, it's plausible.
What I absolutely can't stand is Snyder. When people pointed out that his batman kills he didn't say
>well, yeah, we're showing a really heartbroken batman that has been pushed to extremes for reasons that will be explained further along the DCEU, it's a different take from core batman, but one that I wanted to explore.
That would have been fine. It would have been great.
No, that pathetic turd of a pseudoman said
>I have videos of Nolanbat killing too, you can't blame me, see, see. Teacher, teacher, Timmy was talking too, why do only I get detention?
That's beyond pathetic. He can't support his creation on his own, he has to hide behind others like the ball-less little shit he is. He's acting like a little brat, even though a simple
>we're exploring a batman pushed to extremes due to grief
would have sufficed. It certainly wouldn't please everyone, but who cares, you're not supposed too. But, no, instead of just standing behind his creation, he whined "NOLAN DID IT TOO, WAAAAAAAH'
That "man" is beyond pathetic.
>>83706244
Did he actually kill KGBeast?
>>83705318
Nothing wrong with that - the first Batman killed, he carried guns for fucks sake.
And as you've shown us, Bats kill tons of people in the movies - Snyder is the only one (in the movies) who's so very direct about it.
Also, this Batman is older and disillusioned and bitter. I look forward to see how he develops.
>>83705318
>>83706096
The biggest problem isn't that he IS killing, or that the movie could've exposited more clearly that this is new for him.
It's the inconsistencies.
Why would a Batman who just started killing (presumably AFTER Robin died) give his Robin a lethal halberd?
Why would a Batman who doesn't mind committing direct murder bother to arrange indirect murders with the branding, instead of just offing those two sex offenders himself?
>>83717105
Oh, and why is Alfred surprised by and disapproving of the branding but never speaks up about the killing?
>>83717105
A guy who dressed up like a bat clearly has issues.
>>83717123
Har har.
>>83716480
The brand is for the worst of the worst, like the human slavers in the begining of the movie.
>>83716903
Not him, but literally the only time I can recall him killing someone was that lady in his wolverine crossover, and that was an accident
>>83717260
Yeah, I was really trying to think hard about Man of Spiders killing.
>>83716903
Tell that to Gwen Stacy's neck.
>>83705318
Because people like to whine and can't follow a character arc.
It's not the first time Batman directly killed someone in movies, however it's the first time that the fact was actually adressing it and turnig it into a fucking plot point - you have a disillusioned Batman that after Jason's death and Metropolis has no longer any problems killing people, only to make him return to his old ways when Superman sacrifies himself. Batman's inspired by Supes, and I think it's great.
>>83716968
I for one would be very upset if Frank Castle ever killed someone.
>>83717191
Okay, so...Batman is branding sex traffickers and child molesters. The kind of people who other prisoners usually murder once they get to jail. So when prisoners see the brand, they kill those guys.
But how do other prisoners know that the bat brand means "child molester"? Did Batman break into prison offscreen and tell them?
>>83717315
Obviously Vicki Vale wrote an article on how only sex traffickers and child molesters were being branded, duh.
>>83717274
I found this
http://www.spiderfan.org/faq/killed.html
I'll go through and check the comics I have later to read it for mself but then again why would they lie?
>>83717327
>Vicki Vale
>Not "Mad" Jack Ryder
Goddamnit bring him back
>>83717345
>Jack Ryder
He was in the games, at least.
>>83705542
>also implied that Joker killed Robin
There should be no chance Joker should still be alive with Bat of Murder around.
>>83717355
>Vicki Vale explicitly named The Creeper and The Huntress as other heroes operating in Gotham
>They never show up
>>83717105
He only starts killing when Superman shows up and he starts questioning if he's done anything that's mattered.
That's why Alfred says "Everything's changed.." he doesn't Like this new side to Bruce's Batman and he recognizes that it's because of this God like being coming to earth
His more direct killings were more of They tried to kill me first/ there in the way of my goal of killing Superman. The branding was just a visual reference of him overcoming this small lapse of judgement.
But Robin's murder weapon? Yeah that was probably Snyder wanting the "most badassest" weapon they could find
>>83713015
You are a retard
>>83714634
Not at all, also thered only 4 in screen murders, granade trio and airplane guy.
>>83717345
Literally all but 2 of these are accidents, and the ones that did happen don't betray actual killing intent, more a split second that resulted in death, although Spidey could be thought of as responsible
>>83717841
Yeah, reading the list brought some of these back to memory but these evens t definitely don't warrent the "uh Spider-Man kills all the time, don'e even get me started" faggotry that other anon said
>>83717105
>started killing (presumably AFTER Robin died)
I feel like you people didn't even watch the movie. Robin was a turning point but the events of MoS completely broke him. The beginning of the movie shows and explains this. Robin made him cold and cyniccal, Superman and Zod showing up turned him cruel.
Batman was directly killing except one person. Everything else was "collateral damage".
>>83707745
>Every single hero can see, why shouldn't Daredevil?
>>83705318
This shoulda been the one to not kill. The other batmen we got were apart from any shared universe. Just their own little director crafted thing. And that's cool.
But this time I had my hopes Wed get a batman closer to something I the comics. He had no hard rubber plating on his normal suit...he wore tights. He had a kick ass batman fighting style. So much about this batman worked. But that's why it made the idea of him shredding guy's into ground beef with the batmobiles murder cannons such a bummer.
Cos this coulda been the one to go for some comic accuracy in this age where comic movies don't need to be watered down and made realistic.
So sure this Ain't the first time batmans killed but it still stung. Cos Its like "oh well guess we get another round of movies with a similar to but not quite batman "
>>83705399
fucking idiot.
>>83717754
And those 4 deaths were talked about extensively by Snyder, and were a huge focus of his take on Batman.
Which is where the problem lies.
>>83717345
That's not even a long list, and a lot of them were meant to result in Death.
>>83718504
Not to mention a bunch of them are androids, creatures only created to die right away and god damn zombies, and should we really have the Carnage symbiote as a victim of attempted murder?
>spideys kills a zombie
MURDERER!
>>83717754
Yeah if you pan away from the dying people it doesn't count
>>83714634
>Batman kills when he needs to
Why did he need to kill the guy by strapping Dynamite to him and kicking him down a hole? He smiled before doing it too, implying he wasn't in any real danger or fear of losing his life.
>>83718623
Which movie? Can't seem to place what you're talking about. But if it's BvS, well, he didn't, Snyder made him.
If it's one of the old ones, I say it's because Batman is, and will always be, a psychopath and sometimes they just lose it.
>>83714937
Such a fucking lame excuse here.
>oh it's whimsical so the killing is ok.
The fact is you people have no valid arguments, it;s your hatred of the director that makes you call it out now, and nothing more. Which is fine and all, but at least man up and admit it instead of all the mental gymnastics you go through to justify the killings in the old Batman films compared to now.
>>83718686
Again, it wouldn't have mattered if Snyder hadn't hyped it up as a major point of his Batman. Almost every interview he had to talk about how Batman now killed and blabla.
>>83716865
Except it was pretty clearly established that he only started becoming more Brutal when Superman showed up. Did you people even pay any attention to what you were watching?
>>83712137
THIS
>>83718717
>Except it was pretty clearly established that he only started becoming more Brutal when Superman showed up. Did you people even pay any attention to what you were watching?
Uhm, you do realize in-universe he practically stopped being Batman until Superman showed up again, and he got brutal when whatever events happened that forced him to quit.
>>83717036
Yes but they retconned it
>>83718715
I will never get how people praise Snyeder by going on and on about how realistic it is and how actions in his universe have consequences and then when people talk about those consequences it;s "WHY ARE YOU MAD THE OTHER MOVIES HAD THIS"
Why di Bat-branded criminals get killed in jail?
>>83718656
Batman returns, he does this to one of the Penguin's henchmen
>>83718767
I know, I don't actually mind Batman killing as long as it's in self-defense and unavoidable, I mean, fighting crime WILL result in deaths.
But Batman should try to prevent them at least, but if it's his life or a random thug, of course Batman should kill them.
But the way Snyder handled it, before the movie was released, mind you, not discussing the actual killings in the movie, was bad because he made such a huge deal about it and talked over and over how his Batman didn't mind killing.
>>83718623
Batman Returns
>>83718756
Um... you do realize that doesn't refute my earlier point right?
>>83718715
Not like it was treated as a major character arc or anything right?
>>83718901
I'm fairly certain he was brutal as hell long before Superman showed up, considering he probably didn't stop being Batman the same night whatever happened. He probably sought after all involved and ended them, brutally.
>>83718901
>Not like it was treated as a major character arc or anything right?
Actually, according to Snyder it was. His entire arc in the movie was basically that he stopped caring about being a hero and only wanted to end crime, by any means necessary. Now, he's on the path to become a hero again and start the Justice League.
So yeah, it pretty much was a character arc for him, his entire backstory was that "he lost it" and stopped caring.
>>83718827
For e it's a matter of the rules of the universe.
Jerry hits Tom over the head with a mallet. That works in that universe because the rules and tone are different.
Have that same action happen in Breaking Bad, or hell even in an action cartoon like Young Justice or Avatar and that universe is just as fictional, but suddenly getting whacked on the head with a mallet is a far more serious act of violence.
It's the same way across the Batman movies. Yes, Burton and Schumacher had Batman killing guys, but the rules of the universe downplayed the seriousness of the action. Whereas Snyder plays it up to the point that I wonder if he's got a boner while talking about it.
Snyder's fans want to make sure the world knows how much they hate camp, and how great the Snyderverse is because it's not camp, but they demand the acceptable breaks from reality that se camper provides.
>>83718987
I have nothing to add, well said. Hadn't actually thought about it in those terms, but you're right on the head with the Tom & Jerry analogy.
>>83718603
It doesn't in fiction. That how death works on movies
>>83717410
Would love it if Huntress or Nightwing showed up in a Batfleck film even for a short time but i imagine they are saving her for a possible BOP movie.
>>83719132
When you ask this, in a thread that is 12 hours old, do you really think it's not been discussed already?
If you'd read the thread you could've seen where the discussion is about this and what arguments had been put forth, and continued the discussion with us.
Instead, you barge in like a retard and go "LISTEN TO ME PEOPLE, I'M ASKING SOMETHING NOBODY EVER ASKED BEFORE I SWEAR"
>>83719132
Because they hate Snyder, that's why. Again which is fine, but at least acknowledge that it's the reason instead of making up bullshit excuses is my point.
>>83719142
Can you imagine, for just a second, if the fucking Creeper showed up? Or fucking Ragman? Can you imagine the collective shit /co/ would lose?
>>83719132
Literally look two posts up from your regurgitation, shitbird.
>>83719164
Creeper by snyder could be great
>>83718192
this.
>>83718966
Also, the mask was eating him alive. There's the scene in which Alfred notes he's been drinking too muchbecause of the nightmaresand reminds Bruce that he can go to Luthor's party as a playboy not as angry face rape Bat.
>>83718686
Great, now I know that you didn't even read my post, because that's precisely the opposite of what I've said.
Moron.
If kill is okay for batman why he doesnt use guns,he have them in his plane,why use the shity batarangs when he could use some hightech guns?
>>83705318
Fuck you, cunt.
>>83709521
I like this movie & will stick up for it, but something about Batman's arc is off. I get that he was becoming more brutal after Robin's death, & the Metropolis incident pushed him over the edge. I get that this Batman crosses the no-kill line, but is inspired by Superman to change his ways. The one thing I don't get is this, why is it cool that Batman can just decide he shouldn't go to jail? Regardless of whether or not he learned his lesson, he still killed like 6 people. I feel like it gives him no credibility as Batman. For example:
>Riddler robs a bank.
>No one is killed, but Riddler makes a run for it.
>Batman catches Riddler
>"Your crime-spree is over. You're going to Blackgate, Nygma."
>"Why? I mean, I didn't kill anybody & you got the money back. If anyone here deserves jailtime it's you for killing all those mooks when you were pissed off at Superman you lunatic."
As one anon said earlier, Batman's arc makes much more sense when he's just branding people instead of branding & killing them. KGBeast's death in this context makes that DKR, "I believe you", line more powerful as well. At that point, Batman wouldn't have outright killed anyone, so it would've been a lot more impactful to show him actually pull the trigger. All the pieces to a fucking great story are in this film. Take out Batman's killing spree in the Batmobile, & add a few more scenes with Clark, & this movie would be the GOAT of GOATs.
>>83705542
Except he started killing AFTER Robin was murdered. It's not directly stated in the movie, but fucking think for yourself for a moment.
>>83721097
>There's the scene in which Alfred notes he's been drinking too much because of the nightmares
Which is weird because Bruce is a teetotaler but fuck it, who cares. So long as he wears black and punches guys it's close enough.
>>83723484
>It's not directly stated in the movie, but fucking think for yourself for a moment.
So because you guys constructed a fanfic and all agree on it, that's the canon now.
Man it's going to suck for you if Batman is still killign guys in the Skwad flashbacks. Or have we already decided that movie doesn't count because it's not "Based Snyder"?
>>83717400
Point: There would be no Joker if Bat of Murder was a thing.
Counter Point: We don't know when he started doing this or if he had always. Some speculate that his Bat of Murder Mantra was a product of feeling like Bruce's half measures got Robin killed.
>>83723484
The question still stand, Joker still alive and well, not to mention the rest of Batman's rogue gallery. Unless Batman only picking up the lesser bad guys, street thugs, henchmen to be offed, but not the big fish itself.
That's a weak act.
>>83723170
Luckily the ultimate cut has the Clark scenes back in, I would have loved a 3 hour movie if it meant we got a better story.
And what you said could apply to any hero movies have presented so far. But its still the comic book logic of 'they are the goof guy'
>>83724244
Honestly it's kinda weird period.
We know that Joker exists in a post Man of Steel world and that this Batman can easily break into prisons. Why was "pay Joker a visit and put him out of his misery" not the first thing on his psychotic rampage checklist, especially if Joker killed a Robin?
>>83724310
>And what you said could apply to any hero movies have presented so far. But its still the comic book logic of 'they are the goof guy'
>>83718987
Other comic book movies set up different rules and tone. Snyder flat out said that Batman isn't a good guy anymore. That's the rule. The tone is self explanatory.
That's why it's different.
This thread makes me wonder. What happened to all that 'Judge this movie on its own merits" shit ya'll were talking about as recently as two weeks ago? Weird how it never seems to persist if you can claim a "oh but another movie gets away with it"
>>83724320
Because it's like when parents see their child's killer go to prison. They are getting a punishment even if it's not the one you would have done.
I'm pretty sure most patents would want to kill the pplwho killed their child.
Its also because they crossed his path while he was angry. Joker was lucky he didn't because its likely he would be fucked up too.
Also Bruce knows it won't bring back Jason, so itll be a hollow victory. He crosses the line, Joker isn't given any punishment, and Jason is still dead.
>>83724320
Maybe Batman did try to kill the Joker, & Robin just got caught up in the crossfire? Would make sense with the context of "Haha! Jokes on you Batman!"
>>83714937
>In the old movies the scenes of Batman killing someone are played as wacky hijinks with emphasis on camp
Batman and the Joker really aren't so different after all?
>>83724394
You have to realize no matter what these directors say, comic book logic will always apply.
I'm not even sure why the brand would get you killed.
>>83724710
Pedos get special protection in prison, the criminals fearily respect Batman. The brand basically says this person is a pedo and I have judged him. Its basicaly an okay to beat the shit out of them.
>>83711317
who said the joker was ever captured? well, nobody knows as far as i know
>>83724050
Batman does drink in some incarnations, but I enjoy the ones where he doesn't most. Frank Miller's Bruce drank ginger ale in his youth, which I thought was hilarious. Considering Snyder took a lot from Dark Knight Returns, it's probable that Bruce did the same in his universe:
>>83712758
>If your audience has to have prior knowledge of the comics to explain your story
Okay, I know this post was hours ago, but people know more about the idiosyncrasies of Batman then they do of Jesus Christ. There is not a single man, woman, or child in the audience that needs to have the significance of the dynamic between Batman and Robin and Batman and Joker actually played out for them during the movie. It can be implied and understood because it is such a dominant force in American culture that it can be understood as something important.
It's the same reason you don't have to have fucking characters explain to each other what a McDonalds is when they're eating fast food, it's completely understood.
>>83716903
in the movies he literally kills every villain he comes in contact with (except Sandman)
as for the comics:
http://www.spiderfan.org/faq/killed.html
some highlights,
>Peter Parker becomes "The Spider" and eats Morlun.
>Tried to kill Norman Osborn, over the murder of Ben Reilly and his daughter, Norman survived.
>Killed Drom the Backwards Man. Spidey and Iron fist take on Drom, and smash his mirror on him. This causes Drom to rapidly reverse-age into nothing, effectively killing him.
>>83727934
>in the movies he literally kills every villain he comes in contact with
He doesn't kill them. They just all conveniently either kill themselves or die accidentally.
>>83714815
source, because you are wrong
>>83727964
idk he pretty much flat out kills Osbourne and Venom. And in the Garfield movie he pretty much killed Electro too.
>>83712392
>>83712496
he's just moving his goalposts
>>83713831
just like how Superman was out of options at the end of MoS...
>>83714357
he literally talks to him once about that (gives him the warning), the other time he fights him is because Lex forces him too.
>>83718456
source that shit, stop talking out your ass.
>>83718656
what a load of bullshit response
"if its in a snyder movie its bad, if its not then its okay"
>>83717898
>>83717841
but saying Spider-Man has a no kill code, or even that it is vital to his character, is obviously wrong.
>>83706235
> FACT
> FACT
> FACT
Hello, Chris Evans.
>>83728100
That's just how people think. Who invented this meme?
