I think I'm articulating what most of us are already thinking and a small minority don't quite understand when I say that the audience can only get so shocked. When your observing media, shock, by its very nature, will only come from something unexpected. As such, as writers try harder and harder to shock and offend the viewer, they will either stop reading do to shock and offense, or get used to the new, dark tone. Unless, of course, the viewer is a total edgelord, but lets not talk about them.
That said, shock can be used effectively, especially if its mixed in with other emotions. The execution of Eddard Stark is a good example of effective shock in a story that's already chocked-full f potentially "edgy" material, because no one expected him to die AND his death had serious emotional impact on other characters.
"Edge" is what happens when non-dynamic characters encounter constant shocking/offensive situations, and usually responding with "dark" humor or straight-faced cynicism. Essentially, "edge" refers to the idea that since shock CAN be effective in storytelling, a good story could logically be something that only tries to shock and offend the viewer.
As I see it, ways to avoid an "edgy" story, despite being dark
1. Have the character react dynamically to what's happening. don't just have a panzer-man stay a panzer in the face of all the violence he's used to. have him struggle with reality and grow as a person, either slowly becoming a panzer-man or trying to find what little good remains in the world
2. Pacing. if you have your villain rape some woman we've never met, it won't come as a shock when he rapes 3 women we've never met the next issue. to truly be unexpected (IE shocking) dark moments must be few and far between in a work that has some optimistic elements.
3. Slapstick. because, lets face it, edge is dumb. but if you embrace how dumb it is, you can get shit like "superjail"
>>83636972
>I think I'm articulating what most of us are already thinking
back to rebbit with you, you pretentious power tripping fedoracore sack of shit.
>>83636997
>Someone puts even the slightest amount of effort into a post
>"REDDIT! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!"
I don't agree because you start at a place using buzzwords and already assuming the thing is bad.
>>83637284
What "buzzword" did I use? besides "edge", the definition of which I was explaining
>>83636972
the punisher is not edgy because he is played completely straight.
>>83637329
Why attempt to define a meaningless term
>>83636972
They problem with edge is idiot's like you no longer understand it's meaning. As a result you only view it as a pejorative as opposed to the General term it once was. Like most things you morons slaughter language so you can spout meaningless buzz words at shit you don't like without having to think of actual criticism.
This entire diatribe was not only shallow but completely fucking pointless.
>>83637366
>Point out precisely what a term means
>Its meaningless!
>>83637555
it has become pejorative, like "dread" it has simply become pejorative with age and application.
language evolves, chump. unless your gonna start spouting indo-european at me, your pretty much admitting to being a massive hypocrite with no knowledge of what your talking about.
Stay salty, my friend
>>83638478
Sorry but some fag-hags using words incorrectly on the internet is not ' The evolution of language'
Its fuck heads like You hearing a word incorrectly used and repeating it because you lack critical thought or originality. That language evolving Shit is just an excuse lazy stupid fucks like you use to justifty the dumb wrong shit you say.
We had this thread yesterday.
ITT: Edgy teens defend their edginess by being edgy.
>>83640823
it is language evolving
>>83641016
OP, or the people responding to OP?
>>83636997
>power tripping
>using words wrong
>>83642864
dont you know? anyone who disagreees with him is a tripfag
I thought edge just referred to being unnecessarily dark and grim for no real reason other than the writer thinks it's cool. In the same way a kid might think trench coats and fedoras are cool. For example, Lobo as a character is pretty edgy, because he's dark and grim for the sake of being dark and grim, and when Lobo was popular, people thought he was cool.
>>83645820
yeah, but I'm explaining why that's stupid
>>83636997
Yes, because God forbid anyone wanting to have legitimate conversations on this anonymous image board. No, actual thinking must be the work of Reddit!
The problem here is that it misses what aSoIaF was about.
You aren't supposed to think that being honorable is bad or foolish. You're supposed to hate and want to change the world that punish these noble aspirations.
You're not meant to see it as foolish to do the right thing, but ultimately that is more beautiful than anything because of how hard it is to do.
>>83648418
huh? I just said Ned's death was effectively shocking and sad.
>>83636972
You're completely right, bt you used /co/'s husbando as an example, which is why you're getting a knee jerk reaction. Everyone calling you a fag would have completely agreed with you, had you not Frank'd. On that note, Frank's character has long since been established as edgy, and the whole point of the comic is to be an 80's action hero, so it's not a valid criticism of The Punisher, but in general you're right.
>>83636972
>edgyedgyedgy
Fuck off, dumb faggot.
>>83636972
Punisher is the worst character in all of comics.
>>83642596
>dumb cunts defend their shitty buzzword by "i-it's evolution of language"
Every time
>>83649018
Whedon, pls.
>>83649031
>I keep sing people do the same thing
>I can't come up with an actual counterargument
>I know! I'll say multiple people saying it somehow makes it wrong!
>>83636972
Is that crucifix supposed to imply that this cuck is religious?
>>83649359
>I keep sing people do the same thing
Oh, the irony here is astonishing.
I don't need a counter-argument, you countered yourself by using a shit buzzword. "LE EDGY" is a word used by idiots to describe anything even remotely dark that they don't like and no amount of pseudo-intellectual shitty walls of text like yours will change that.
>>83642864
>using words wrong
Didn't you hear? It's the evolution of language. :^)
>>83649408
Punisher is sometimes depicted as giving a shit about being Roman-Catholic, and sometimes not.
>>83649408
IIRC this is Ultimate Punisher whom Ghost Rider told "Keep up the good work" which Frank took as God telling him to keep on Franking folks. so yeah he's religious.it was the devil telling Frank what a good boy he was FYI
>>83649547
its not "pseudo-intellectual" is just an explanation. if your so triggered by the word "edgy" I suggest you leave 4chan and go somewhere that will cater to your incredibly specific emotional needs
>>83649690
It's a substanceless opinion presented in the most pseudo-intellectual way possible that tries (and fails) to justify the use of a shit buzzword that's been ruining 4chan for years and have been almost finally forgotten.
I have a better idea. How about you fuck off with your garbage buzzword somewhere else?
>>83649865
isn't "Pseudo-intellectual" also a buzzword?
and no, its not an "Opinion" its basic storytelling. sorry basic storytelling triggers you. Also, wow, so brave to tell someone too 'fuck off" on an anonymous image board. But before i do what you say: on what authority are you ordering me? because it KINDA seems like your impotently throwing orders at random people because you can't stand the idea that someone disagrees with you.
>>83636972
meme character for literal sociopaths
>>83649968
>y-you're using buzzwords too
Now you're just being pathetic.
>basic storytelling.
No, you fucking idiot. You don't even know what that means. You're just saying "x is inherently bad and dumb because I said so, here's my idiotic definition of a shit meaningless buzzword" and act all high and mighty about it.
>Y-YOU'RE NOT MY DAD XD
Stop embarrassing yourself already and shut up. It's for your own good.
>>83646544
Fuck off to the objectivist comics thread.
>>83650128
>Use a buzzword to criticize buzzwords
>realize your a massive hypocrite
>realize you have no argument
>I know! I'll rewrite what he said, but stutter! and call him pathetic, because obviously he hadn't already figured I want to ake him seem that way
>No, you fucking idiot. You don't even know what that means. You're just saying "x is inherently bad and dumb because I said so, here's my idiotic definition of a shit meaningless buzzword" and act all high and mighty about it.
No, I just explained something
>Stop embarrassing yourself already and shut up. It's for your own good.
Yeah, again, you do realize you have no authority over me? I mean, feel free to stop posting whenever you want, since this apparently triggers you so much. I'll probably stop when I go to sleep, unless I'm in the mood for some more of this tomorrow.
Would anyone like me to storytime an actual edgy comic?
>>83650287
>never heard of "fight fire with fire"
"Pseudo-intellectual" is a lesser evil compared to your garbage buzzword you faggots spammed for years all over 4chan ruining any and all discussion you could, so you don't get to whine about that.
>realize you have no argument
You're an absolutely retarded faggot with zero reading comprehension which is totally expected from people who use "edgy" as a legitimate argument.
>No, I just explained something
You also don't get to call anyone else a hypocrite when you accuse others of repeating what they say, when that's the exact same thing you do all this thread.
>I HATE YOU DAD I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU XDD
Seriously, this is pathetic.
>>83650470
>"Pseudo-intellectual" is a lesser evil compared to your garbage buzzword you faggots spammed for years all over 4chan ruining any and all discussion you could, so you don't get to whine about that.
Its a word with a pretty defined meaning: pointless darkness. If you dislike that so much, go somewhere they ban words. Sorry your favorite edge lords are deservedly laughed-at on this board, but that's not my fault.
>You're an absolutely retarded faggot with zero reading comprehension which is totally expected from people who use "edgy" as a legitimate argument.
Now now, that's not a very polite thing to say, is it? But I know you don't really feel that way bro, no one REALLLY gets this mad over shitposting. good job faking it, tho.
>You also don't get to call anyone else a hypocrite when you accuse others of repeating what they say, when that's the exact same thing you do all this thread.
Oh come on, now your just getting lazy its plainly obvious I never accused anyone of repetition, silly.
>Seriously, this is pathetic.
This is where I lost ya. How is disobeying your dad in any way similar to disobeying some anon online? You never gave me a home to live in and I sincerely doubt you have my best interests at heart. Also, isn't "XD" also a buzzword used to stifle discussion? Ohhh, right, your being ironic. thanks for throwing in little hints like that to make clear your not positing opinions anyone with an IQ over 40 could actually hold. Otherwise, I might have thought you were serious.
Punisher fucking sucks
>>83637345
Way to completely miss the point of the post, shithead.
>>83650936
Punisher's been characterized a lot of different ways,
T
B
H
>>83650739
>Its a word with a pretty defined meaning: pointless darkness
It's a genuinely subjective idiotic buzzword that only means "it's dark and I don't like it, so it's edgy and pointlessly dark", you unbelievably dumb piece of human garbage. It doesn't mean anything beyond that.
>If you dislike that so much, go somewhere they ban words.
People on 4chan have been telling immature idiots who use "edgy" as an actual criticism to fuck off ever since 2013, so I'm not doing anything wrong. If YOU don't like it, then YOU fuck off to somewhere else.
> Sorry your favorite edge lords are deservedly laughed-at on this board, but that's not my fault.
Glad to know you're running out whatever little arguments you had and resorting to the dumbest shitposting imaginable.
> its plainly obvious I never accused anyone of repetition, silly.
You're so dumb you can't even remember your own posts. Just kill yourself already.
>This is where I lost ya. How is disobeying your dad in any way similar to disobeying some anon online? You never gave me a home to live in and I sincerely doubt you have my best interests at heart.
You may think you're clever or funny, but you're neither. This is cringeworthy, so stop clowning around.
>Also, isn't "XD" also a buzzword used to stifle discussion?
What part of "lesser evil" and "fight fire with fire" you don't understand? Actually, why am I even expecting an idiot like you to understand anything?
>>83651186
Your back! For a second I thought you were one.
>It's a genuinely subjective idiotic buzzword that only means "it's dark and I don't like it, so it's edgy and pointlessly dark", you unbelievably dumb piece of human garbage. It doesn't mean anything beyond that.
That's still not very polite. you silly billy. but I just defined it, sorry f you disagree
>People on 4chan have been telling immature idiots who use "edgy" as an actual criticism to fuck off ever since 2013, so I'm not doing anything wrong. If YOU don't like it, then YOU fuck off to somewhere else.
Yeah, the 3% of people who are still in the edge-stage of media consumption. the rest of 4chan laughs at those people for their inability to comprehend storytelling. and I'm genuinely not upset, I'm just saying your being a bit close-minded
>Glad to know you're running out whatever little arguments you had and resorting to the dumbest shitposting imaginable.
I don't recall posting a picture of an ass and trying to phonetically type out fart noises, but if you say so, sorry man.
>You're so dumb you can't even remember your own posts.
I do remmember tho, you accused me of repeating myself. bruh.
> Just kill yourself already.
Oh, you! telling people to an hero and getting mad when they don't. why are you so silly?
>You may think you're clever or funny, but you're neither. This is cringeworthy, so stop clowning around.
Wait, you unironically say "cringeworthy"? that's a much more subjective buzzword then "edgy" ever was.
>What part of "lesser evil" and "fight fire with fire" you don't understand? Actually, why am I even expecting an idiot like you to understand anything?
Have we really reached the point where we're having Buzzword-wars? are you really arguing your buzzwords are betetr then my buzzwords? can I see your tier-ranking of buzzwords?
guys calm down pls stop fighting ur tearing our beautiful website apart :<
>>83651536
we're just funposting, m'boy. nothing dangerous, but I understand it can be scary sometimes. you can hold me hand if you want.
>>83651392
>but I just defined it
So, you're retarded. Good to know.
>pulling non-existent numbers and situations out of your ass
Thanks for making it clear that you're just here for trolling. Now fuck off already.
>I don't recall posting a picture of an ass and trying to phonetically type out fart noises, but if you say so, sorry man.
That's exactly what your entire OP post and your every reply in this thread are
>Oh, you! telling people to an hero and getting mad when they don't. why are you so silly?
You actually should, though. Less idiots like you means better for humanity.
>that's a much more subjective buzzword then "edgy" ever was.
Except it's not a buzzword. It's an actual word that definitely describes you.
Your attempts at being witty and clever are on par with those of a very bad, annoying stand-up comedian.
>argumentum ad absurdum
You're boring.
>>83636972
Some people wonder how I frank at night.
I tell them I just Frank my Frank.
>>83645820
but Lobo was satire
>>83651683
lewd
>>83651710
When will Snyder make an R-rated Lobo movie with zero satire in it?
>>83651832
DELET THIS
Don't give him ideas.
>>83651662
>So, you're retarded. Good to know
I'd prefer to see some credentials before taking an anon's diagnosis, desu
>Thanks for making it clear that you're just here for trolling. Now fuck off already.
Come on, you LOVE my presence.! if you were really this annoyed, you'd just hide and ignore. but you didn't, you sill billy. Admit it bro, you love talking to me and you'd feel sad and bored if I actually did fuck off. Stop being so tsundere.
>That's exactly what your entire OP post and your every reply in this thread are
Looking back...no, their not. That said, if you ass looks like that page of "Ultimate Avengers" and your farts sound anything like what i wrote...pics and voaroo?
>You actually should, though. Less idiots like you means better for humanity.
WOW, so edgy! now I understand why your so triggered by the word "edgy", it described you perfectly! Stay Salty, moin froind
>Except it's not a buzzword. It's an actual word that definitely describes you.
again, mean
>Your attempts at being witty and clever are on par with those of a very bad, annoying stand-up comedian.
could you give me a name?
>You're boring.
It takes 2 to tango. you can stop talking whenever you want, but you won't, because you fucking love conversations with me. You've made no actual attempt to change my opinions and your not getting me to an hero that easily. No one else is looking at this thread, you are literally only talking to me because you enjoy it
>>83651914
So what you're saying is you DON'T want to see Lobo rape Hawkman?
>>83636972
>the audience can only get so shocked
This is a problem with any Horror franchise as well: in the early seasons of the tv show Supernatural meeting up with an actual DEMON was scary as shit ... a few seasons later and Sam and Dean treat the literal King of Hell like he's a mildly annoying little brother (which is only fair: since they literally just defeated Lucifer himself and stopped the Apocalypse and all).
Also Power Creep in cape comics.
But the root problem is the same in all cases: the author's are trying desperately to get that "OH, SHIT!" reaction and that can only happen if you dial things up (and that's a problem if you're already at 11).
>>83651935
But Snyder would somehow find a way to make an over the top edgy satirical character into an edgy character, he's the one and only Snyderino after all.
>>83651923
>if you were really this annoyed, you'd just hide and ignore
I'm reporting your shit posts, but unfortunately mods are too retarded to do anything about an annoying idiot like you. And "hide and ignore" is not a good strategy for dealing with cancer.
>Looking back...no, their not.
Astonishing delusion.
>you can stop talking whenever you want
Seriously. You're pulling the "I'M JUST TOYING WITH YOU I WIN EITHER WAY" card. Not once but twice in the same post. That's the new low even for you.
>You've made no actual attempt to change my opinions
I did. You're just too thick to understand them.
And really, I know it's summer already but if you value writing quality so much, go to the nearest library, pick a book (and I mean a book, not literature's capeshit like ASOIAF), try to learn at least proper grammar.
>inb4 capeshit is a buzzword too
Language evolves :^)
>>83652085
>This is a problem with any Horror franchise as well
But that's wrong. The real problem with horror franchises is that outside of the original film they're manifactured soulless and hollow cashgrabs with no real attempt to scare people.
Horror franchises means taking a passion project of the original team and milking money out of it without paying attention to what made them good in the first place other than superficial details like having a masked mute psychopath killing teenagers. That's why the first movie is generally the best in the franchise.
Just take the first Halloween which was pretty frightening for a slasher film and compare it to "found footage movies are hip let's add elements of one to our next Halloween movie and put a famous rapper in it, that would sell too" shit like Resurrection.
And yes, you could use the "all movies are made to milk money" argument, but you can't deny that the original team at least puts effort because they care about a movie on a level beyond just making money.
>>83652085
that is always a problem with serialized storytelling.
>>83652185
>I'm reporting your shit posts, but unfortunately mods are too retarded to do anything about an annoying idiot like you. And "hide and ignore" is not a good strategy for dealing with cancer.
because I'm not shitposting. I'm making conversation you disagree with. There is a difference.
also...is calling someone a faggot on a website where people constantly call each other faggots very effective either? have you ever actually convinced someone to stop posting? and before you answer: no lying
>Astonishing delusion
Its just really weird for you to accuse me of this kind of shit when both of us can easily go up and see its false
>Seriously. You're pulling the "I'M JUST TOYING WITH YOU I WIN EITHER WAY" card. Not once but twice in the same post. That's the new low even for you.
OHHH, you see this as a competition? and you "win" by having the last word?
>I did. You're just too thick to understand them
No, you just called me a faggot and stopped entertaining thought the second I Pointed holes in your logic. thats a fucking shitty attempt. really, any attempt t get someone to move by insulting them is a fucking shitty attempt. I mean, you either A: never wanted me to change my opinions or B: are so retarded you can't understand why screaming insults and hollow orders at someone doesnt make them want to agree with you.
>And really, I know it's summer already but if you value writing quality so much, go to the nearest library, pick a book (and I mean a book, not literature's capeshit like ASOIAF), try to learn at least proper grammar.
Wow, your very opinionated. But you see, as soon as you tell someone to kill themself, your opinions stop seeming like something that should be matched. In fact, generally speaking, blatant antagonizing like that generally makes people want to feel the exact opposite as you do.
>Language evolves :^)
Ok, I'll bite. what does capeshit mean? or is any attempt to give actual meaning a word 'psuedointellectual" because you want duckspeak?
>>83636972
This is not shock, this is revenge fantasy.
You are supposed to want to do those things, and it is empowering, sympathetic and liberating to feel them come from a hero. And Punisher is a hero.
Liberate your mind and come out of your preconceived biases. You are not thinking of all the options.
>>83652851
This is why Punisher is a bad character.
>>83652851
I don't fantasize about being someone with no concept of mercy who's life is fucks him over at every turn. I don't understand the appeal of that fantasy
>>83652726
>WAHH YOU'RE BEING ANTAGONIZING TO ME
Cry more.
>because I'm not shitposting. I'm making conversation you disagree with. There is a difference.
You are shitposting. You have been proven wrong, and yet you keep at it.
>OHHH, you see this as a competition? and you "win" by having the last word?
You do too. You wouldn't be responding to my every post and asking me to leave because "it takes two to dance and it's my fault I respond to you", if it wasn't true. Don't play innocent.
>No, you just called me a faggot and stopped entertaining thought the second I Pointed holes in your logic
A: the only reason I told you you're an idiot is because you're an idiot who deserves it.
B: You did literally nothing to prove me wrong ignoring all my points and thinking
>screaming insults and hollow orders at someone
is all I did.
>Ok, I'll bite. what does capeshit mean?
The same thing as "edgy". Which is "the thing I don't like" see how shit with buzzwords works?
>>83652933
>I can't understand it, so it's bad
>>83652933
>I don't understand revenge fantasies
Alien invader please go, this is a thread for humans.
>>83653059
>Cry more.
I'm not the one mesaging the mods to say that any opinion disagreeing with me is shitosting. I'm just pointing out your either lying or have a VERY loose idea on how to talk to people. Nor am I talking about how triggered I am by the fact that that buzzwords exist
>You are shitposting. You have been proven wrong, and yet you keep at it.
I really have not. you disagreeing with me is not proof. sorry to burst your bubble.
>A: the only reason I told you you're an idiot is because you're an idiot who deserves it.
OK, so to be clear you have no actual interest in changing my mind and only made up a quick lie when I pointed out how petty you were being?
>B: You did literally nothing to prove me wrong ignoring all my points and thinking
I have ignored literally zero points
>The same thing as "edgy". Which is "the thing I don't like" see how shit with buzzwords works?
Wait, do you think capeshit is a buzzword or no? because I cna define edgy, easily. it refers to a work that contains dark elements for the sake of shocking the reader rather then trying to support any legitimate dramatic storytelling. Its not hard to understand.
>>83653123
>>83653089
What, is that really what you fantasize about? having your children killed by mobsters and becoming a broken man who kills mobsters to fill the void left in himself?
>>83653298
>pretending to be retarded
It's almost like you were looking to start shit.
>>83653298
Yeah, and women watch "rape and revenge" movies because they all secretly want to get raped.
Oh wait, that one's actually true.
>>83653357
Are you criticizing me or are we having a new conversation?
