Can we have a civil? East and West animation thread. What does one do better than the other? Who do you think produces the better movies? Why hasn't Japan produced many CGi works? What could each improve?
Personally, I think Japan does a much better job of giving weight to actions. We used to be the Kings of it with stuff like Tom and Jerry but nowadays we can animate good weighty actions. Also Japan does a much better job shadowing in their shows.
Japan does literally everything better
>>83456406
Except FPS
Japan is pretty much better in almost all ways nowadays 2D wise, it's just not that feasible on the short term. Instead of simplified drawings and more animation they choose detailed drawings and less animation.
Japanese animation is a bit edgy and repetitive. people say its for adults, and while there are plenty of adult anime; the vast majority are for 13-20 year old kids.
beside that, Japanese TV has way, way better animation then American TV, even if it comes at the price of an occasional still-frame.
as far as movies go, top-tier animation from us and them are pretty close
>>83456309
Second season when
>>83456451
>a bit edgy
How?
>>83456611
have you ever seen any anime ever?
>>83456832
yeah i remember how edgy shirobako was
>>83456832
Yes. Luluco is a very edgy show.
>>83456515
>FLCL is getting a reboot
>PSG never will
>>83457216
>a reboot
*sequel
>>83457258
Right, that word.
Both sides have issues with their fanbases affecting the feasibility of creative output. Japan has otaku/weebs wanting nothing but cute shit and shounen, while the West has an aging cartoon fanbase that simultaneously wants cartoons to call back to "the good old days" and conform to modern interpretations of social responsibility. I tend to prefer Western stuff for "trying" to be different, but there's nothing wrong with cute girls doing cute things every once in a while.
I'd love to say "animators should tell their audience to shove off and do what they want, since the audiences will like it either way", but if they can't sell anything they can't make more cartoons. As far as quality goes, it seems like Japan has the edge in animating action scenes when necessary, while the West has more diverse character models and concepts.
>>83456940
>>83457119
>having to site anime no one has heard of even inside Japan
Stay salty, my friends.
>>83457443
smart umaruposter
>>83457729
>Trigger anime
>No one has heard of
More like you're just ignorant
>>83457729
>"site"
Can you give examples of what you think are "edgy" anime? Things like Elfen Lied obviously exist but I want to know if you are actually using the term properly or just as a buzzword without any understanding
>the vast majority are for 13-20 year old kids
Don't know about this one. Most new shows are made with the intention of selling merchandise and are often targeted to older demographics or have multiple wide reaching demographics because of that.
>>83457443
>more diverse character models and concepts
Can you explain what you mean by this
Why do you have to try and make it a competition? Just enjoy both.
>>83458621
Nobody is. This is a discussion for both.
Things Japan does better: Everything
Things the West does better: Puns
>>83458469
Western characters tend to have a wider range of varying character dimensions for each character in their shows, like each individual main character seems based on an entirely different model. It's not a rule (RWBY and the three Powerpuff Girls can attest to that), but I sometimes swear that Western artists are trying to outdo each other's character designs by basing each character's head on different geometric shapes, for better or worse.
Concepts for characters aren't as homogenized or predicable as some anime. Works like Dead Leaves can show diverse Japanese character design at its best, but as far as technique goes there's a noticeable trend in popular works in each decade and animation studio that remains dominant. '70s Tatsunoko looks like '70s Tatsunoko and '90s anime looks like '90s anime, but compared to Western work there's less diversity of ideas and mediums to convey characters. Western cartoonists wanted to be the next great thing by trying weird shit, and while stuff like claymation, rotoscoping and 100% CGI worked, there was room for failure in stuff like Syncro-Vox. Sure, that was just a cost-cutting measure, but it's a cost-cutting measure that's still remembered.
Has there ever been an anime about different anime styles trying to live together and/or clash culturally? Western animation made two popular shows on that idea alone: TAWOG and Drawn Together.
>>83456309
Japan has more respect for the animation medium and more studios to hone the craft. We have Disney and Pixar. Fox animation...yeah...
>>83459014
>'70s Tatsunoko looks like '70s Tatsunoko and '90s anime looks like '90s anime
Anon that's a studio thing and the west isn't exempt to that. Where you say 70's tatsunoko looked like 70s tatsunoko you have bravestar looking like he-man, herculoids looks like johnny quest that looks like moby dick. for the 90s you have the x-men that looked like spider-man that looked like iron-man that looked like the fantastic four.
The west has a greater focus on originality, and series often and purposefully deviate from stylistic norms of the past(the most successful ones do, at least).
Japan has a greater focus on tradition, with almost all themes and styles of anime being easily traced back to Osamu Tezuka and his contemporaries.
>>83456309
>Can we have a civil? East and West animation thread.
Where the fuck do you think you are, Toon Zone?
>>83459014
I just couldn't tell if you were talking about narrative or animation.
Japanese animation usually shoots for pretty realistic character models (which I don't think is a bad thing) so a lot of the things the west can do is more limited in Japan. Yes there are a lot of shows that have similar styles (which I don't think inherently makes them lesser shows), but there are shows like Aku no Hana, Ping Pong, Soul Eater, Redline, Tatami Galaxy, Zetsubou Sensei, P&S, and Bakemonogatari among many others, that have unique styles and flavors to their overall animation. Sure they aren't as wacky as the west but I don't really think thats a bad thing.
>Has there ever been an anime about different anime styles trying to live together and/or clash culturally?
I'm not aware. But there are shows that mix completely different styles together.
>>83456309
Japan is better in terms of animation, and having a wide variety of genres. Western animation has some solid shows with different artistic styles and experimenting in the weirdest shit. In terms of cgi, I guess Japan probably depends on the U.S. to give them Hollywood Movies
>>83459014
Not an anime, but Kappa Mikey was another western show that did that with anime styles. It was also kinda shit, but whatever.
Its all good.
>>83461276
Shut up boco
>>83462453
Yes sir...
Rick and Morty is the only good cartoon on right now so
Anime > Western Animation
>>83456309
It's funny. A lot of what Trigger puts out would fit in pretty well with the AS/CN crowd.
I want to see what happened if you put Imaishi and say Rebecca Sugar in a room and made them put together a show.
>>83464349
Wrongly Accused, but with lesbians
Bah, western animation is dead, not only does practically all the actual animation take place in korea and japan (which has been the case for a loooong time), but also the designs are heavily inspired from japanese anime.
The current vogue style of western animated characters are heavily inspired by the japanese anpanman anime series and films.
>>83456309
Japanese stories are able to be much more creative because they have a long history of mythos they can call back on. In comparison, we have very little and most of our history has to be blurred over because it's not exactly something we're proud of, especially not now-a-days.
So animation for us has basically been streamlined into a genre because, ever since we started it, all we've been doing is referencing each other rather than using it as a way to create stories. Nine Old Men and what have you. All we really have are episodic (slice of life) comedies with a dash of story arcs sprinkled. Japan has more genre and audience variety, and that's good.
However, their execution of these stories are much more streamlined than our cartoons. And cartoons are still fucking streamlined to hell (Like, can you even tell the difference between Pixar and Disney films? Angry Birds could have been made by the same crew who did Despicable Me). In anime, aesthetics, their animation, their voice acting, their choreography are all interchangeable between one another. So visually, it's fucking tiring to watch anime after anime after anime. They all start to blend in. Have you ever tried to play several Telltale games back to back? It's like that, where you notice the same "touch" in all of them despite these all being made by different studios.
So in that regard, cartoons have more visual and execution variety. King of the Hill is way different from South Park which is different from Steven, different from Gumball, different from Venture Brothers, etc.
TLDR: Japan has more of a variety in genres and audiences. Cartoons have more variety in execution of their cartoons.
>>83456406
Not counting PPG.
Or Stitch.
Why does Anime send so much money to voice actors? They can't even handle different kind of characters
Why does Anime give the creative team a slave-tier salary? They are the soul of the animation
West does more fluid animations because muh 60 fps
East does better fight scenes and are much more efficient at output thanks to slave labour
Both suffer from different corporate decisions.
West companies are too "safe" with their idea, of "wacky animal and food friends" comedy shows. The most recent show that tried something new and interesting WAS SU (I'm upset of the recent story arc).
Jap shows try to have interesting twists on template-type stories (i.e. magical girls, shonens, etc), but many companies pour money into moeblob stuff since it sells better. That doesn't stop Japan from having fun with stories.
>>83467164
>not brutal death scenes
>>83467164
>60 fps
The standard framerate for animation, whether cg or traditional, is still 24 fps.
I lean more towards western comics and animation but both have their geniuses and masterpieces
West has tartakovsky, East has trigger
West has mignola, East has nihei
>>83466167
I watched this anime when I was a toddler. Can't remember much except that the villain was a tsundere and the hero healed people by letting them cannibalize him.
>>83466167
All the current generation working at cartoon network is obsessed with manga/anime
>>83464433
FUND IT
>>83457729
Nigga I've been sitting on a Luluco thread all night over on /a/. Get better bait.
>>83456449
>muh frame count
there's more to animation than just ANIMATE EVERYTHING ON THE 1s
they have absurd deadlines to meet, and the wages are awful. it's been proven time and time again that Japanese animators do amazing stuff when not pressured, but you can plug your eyes and ears if you want
![[HorribleSubs] Kill la Kill - 03 [720p].mkv_snapshot_19.53_[2015.06.23_11.48.59].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QRwZhRr.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Kill la Kill - 03 [720p].mkv_snapshot_19.53_[2015.06.23_11.48.59].jpg")
>>83458695
I'm not so sure about that. Kill la Kill was Japanese wordplay all the way down, for example, but it's utterly lost in translation.
>>83464349
>MC breaks into spontaneous song just before physically punching a hole into reality
>>83456451
Anime is not for kids or adults. Anime can be for kids and anime can be for teenagers and anime can be for adults. Just like cartoons there are anime for toddlers, for children, for teenagers but unlike western media they have a reasonable number of shows for adults. While western cartoons seems to stop at "edgy cartoons for adults" that actually are for teenagers and young adults" Japanese animation keeps going for more mature audiences while western media goes live action. For example there is an anime for woman set in the early 20th century about an ex-criminal trying to be a comedian. This is a show for older women. But they don't bring many mature works to the west as animation is seen a something for children. In the end west get mostly the stuff aimed at teenagers receiving very little of the shows for small childrens or older adults creating a false stereotype.
>>83467489
Not only CN, basically most of the examples people post about great western animation are from people who are fans of Japanese animation.
Pixar head John Lasseter spoke about wooing his wife by showing her scenes from Miyazaki's debut feature, "Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro," the day after he met her. The film "had adventure, heart, action and humor, done with such style and sophistication and a wonderful eye for the details of human behavior," he said. "It was proof positive, as Walt Disney had showed so many years earlier, that animation was for everyone…Every time I watch a Miyazaki film, I learn something about the craft of filmmaking."
"The Japanese do the best action films in animation, so when you're studying animation, you look to the best sources you can for whatever you're trying to be inspired by."
Craig McCracken
"I’ve always been very inspired by Japanese animation."
Ben Bocquelet
>>83467639
But in animation, the frame count is one of the most important things. Everything else is just design or style. But animating on 3's, 4's, and 5's and doing mostly keys and breakdowns creating a rather "slow framerate" effect can harm an animation's appeal.
>>83467829
It's still slightly surreal that a show like Rakugo came from DEEN.
>>83456309
Japanese animation is overall better. The CGI work of US is better, on a higher professional level (like Disney animation) but the overall sum is way better for Japan. Sometimes America can have more creative/interesting ideas for animation that are fun to watch and bouncy (Gumball,Wander over Yonder) but overall Japanese animation is better.
>>83467956
Also movie directors take inspiration from Japanese media including, but not limiting to, anime. From Star Wars to Inception al
>>83456406
Except breeding. Also the French may give them a run for their money.
>>83457729
>Can you even cite one anime for me to prove my lame rhetoric
>WAAAAH NO THAT ONE DOESN'T COUNT!!!
>>83466167
Which in turn was heavily inspired by western animators like Walt Disney.
It's almost like they're working in the same medium and there's no necessary boundary between the two, and they both benefit from cultural cross pollination.
Is it any surprise Big O is such a good show?
>>83456309
At the end of the day both countries have their problems, but the US seem worse, where as the Land of the Two Nukes has moe shit and intense labor challenges, America has:
-A union that drives wages so high, even for low level jobs, that all the jobs left for Worst Korean and Red China.
-Cynical corporate mentalities. It's why shit like Minions gets pumped out like crazy.
-The Cal Arts style. Yes it exists, it's just changed over the decades.
-Little to understanding of the basics. Those that do go to Disney and Pixar, others stay behind on TV. Even Jap tv toons look miles better. They are better educated.
But all is not lost (for the West, America is fucked though). I believe the French could easily knock the Nips out of their boots. I for one welcome our new Frog overlords.
>>83469325
Yeah this nigger gets it. America and Japan have been strong trade partners for a long time, surprise that our ideas in animation are not that different.
>>83457729
But Luluco is one of the best shows this season. But that other triggers show isnt so good.
>>83467993
And it is actually gettin season 2.
>>83457119
For a moment I thought that Lucu Lucu got an anime.Satan best girl
>>83467375
Isn't a lot of tv animation done in 2's?
>>83467974
>But in animation, the frame count is one of the most important things. Everything else is just design or style.
>What is timing?
>What is weight?
>>83456309
Entire swathes of the Japanese writing style has to die a horrible death and certain cliches taken into the street and beaten to death.
>>83470548
I do agree that japanese writing style isnt anything good but west isnt any better at this point.
>>83470548
Like?
Japan has more detailed aesthetics but the dearth of originality is disappointing and I find the writing is pretty poor/flat, I never seem to relate to or care about anime characters. The humor also generally does nothing for me but that's an understandable cultural barrier.
>>83472059
>>83472059
Well anime has always been advertisment for manga or something else. And i never cared about relations, i just like characters most of the time. But i agree humor is stupid but some shows like cromartia high school or nichijou was funny.
I like western animation better. It's always been harder for me to get into anime. It's just not my thing. I also think there is a loss of creativity in Japan. They often make 3-5 of the same type of show a year due to some really stupid genres. Like "moesbit" or whatever. I enjoy good ole' fashioned cartoons. There's no doubt that our stuff is funnier too. Looney Tunes, Spongebob, Gumball, etc. Although I think Japan does a better job at story driven shows. Many cartoons can't grasp this very well over here. Even shows like Gravity Falls and Steven Universe have disappointed me a bit at overarching plots.
>>83457729
Can you please just deal with the fact that you are wrong? Not all anime is edgy. It's just the ones that you watch are.
>>83458695
Maybe it's because you don't understand the language?
>>83472413
I can understand why it is hard to get into anime but for me it was that i grew up with anime more than western cartoons back when i was kid.
>>83459014
Doesn't it depend on the show, studio, and year? Like children shows are more likely to do that, but not shows aimed at an older audience so much? For example even if Adventure Time, Regular Show, and Gumball have this they are still aimed at children, mainly, even if they are popular with older crowds. Shows such as Family Guy, Bob's Burgers, Daria, Beavis and Butthead, and King of the Hill don't do this due to the type of audience that they are appealing to.
Ultimately, whatever makes money wins. So generally, if there's not enough of that in Japan it means it's not selling as well as it does in the West? Then again, I'm not as well versed in Japanese children's cartoons so it's hard to make a true definitive statement like that.
>>83459964
Can you give examples?
>>83466542
>Why does Anime send so much money to voice actors? They can't even handle different kind of characters
Can you give examples of them?
Eh, I think Europe is the most competent of them. US constantly cancels good shows and barely has any (good) action cartoons left along with by-the-numbers CGI films up the ass while anime is usually flooded by SOL shit.
>>83466190
>In anime, aesthetics, their animation, their voice acting, their choreography are all interchangeable between one another.
I don't really get what you mean. Can you pull up examples?
Also, I don't agree with:
>In comparison, we have very little and most of our history has to be blurred over because it's not exactly something we're proud of, especially not now-a-days.
The U.S. is a young country, but it's not as if it doesn't have stories to tell. It just doesn't tell those kinds of stories. We could make historical cartoons. We can make stories about sports. We can make stories about art. Yet, we don't, because people are convinced that no one wants to see those kinds of stories. It would also help to hire more than white men in animation, because it would create all different types of stories to be told instead of the same ones over and over again.
>>83467419
>Mignola
>Nihei
One what basis can you even compare these two? Just because you like them? I like Nihei and his backgrounds are great, but his figures? No, just no.
>>83467829
I agree with you.
It's pretty obvious that a lot of people here have only seen a limited amount of anime/manga and it's usually what's brought over to the US. Case in point this anon:>>83456451
The thing is whatever is brought to the US is what people think can sell and what they, personally, like. So you only get certain types of shows and then people think that's all there is. So then their perception of the medium is skewed.
It would be the equivalent of someone from China thinking that all American movies are nothing, but superhero movies. American film geeks would freak out and start explaining how diverse films are and how superheroes are a genre of the medium rather than the totality of the medium itself.
The same goes for anime. Anime is diverse. There's all different kinds of shows for different demographics. There was even an anime where guys talk to you to help you try to go to sleep. The West would NEVER do anything like that. It wasn't trying to be edgy. It was trying to target a particular demographic. It's something the West doesn't do with its cartoons, and sometimes comics, at all.
>>83467993
DEEN has been killing it this year. They are even doing DJ Tonkatsu and Konosuba. They have done all of my favorite shows this year, so far.
>>83469325
Was I the only one who didn't like Big O so much?
>>83470548
You could say the same with American tropes and cliches that are done to death. It's just harder to see when you are in it rather than outside of it.
>>83472059
Can you give some examples?
>No creativity in Japan
>writing is bad
>no fluid animation
There's so many blanket statements, but no one even gives examples. If you can't even give examples to back up your statements should you be even making them at all?
If you could pull up examples illustrating what you are talking about it would help the discussion, a lot.
Japan has better direction in their animation. I can't really think of any anime that abuse 3/4 perspective like most cartoons do nowadays.
>>83467829
So...Americans need to grow up?
I believe we can all agree that Japan makes the better semen demons.
>>83456309
Western animation is funnier and more likely to deal with things I can relate to. Easter animation is more ambitious, more willing to indulge in pathos and tell overarching stories. American animation is starting to catch up, but there's still a long way to go.
>>83473437
The of the THICC verity
>>83473158
I didn't like it very much either senpai
>>83472862
But i think there is some good SOL anime like Aria or Mushishi.
>>83473453
>and more likely to deal with things I can relate to
Like what?
![[HorribleSubs] Hanamonogatari [720p].mkv_snapshot_01.49.45_[2015.08.05_10.35.08].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/PyFY2fP.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Hanamonogatari [720p].mkv_snapshot_01.49.45_[2015.08.05_10.35.08].jpg")
>>83473456
Of all varieties.
>>83473453
I can relate Welcome to NHKs main character. But that is not probably good thing.
>>83456515
>PSG will never get a second season
>>83473158
My first episode of Big O was the second season opener. I was so lost, they might as well have been showing me out-of-context clips from Killer7 back-to-back.
I swear anime requires more time investment from the first season onward in order to get the full experience. The later episodes of Eva require the development of audience investment on Shinji's fate, and while a casual viewer can watch episodes of shounen individually and enjoy the spectacle (One Piece, Bleach, Naruto; hell, even DBZ) they'd still be asking questions. "Why's that smoking man looking at that redhead so lustfully? And does that spiky-haired man seem so nonplussed about dying?"
>>83473771
Me too, actually. I relate to Shinji Ikari even more. I'm pretty much just Shinji with loving parents and a sense of humor.
>>83473489
It's just what happens when you view something from your own culture. You know what they''re talking about. When I watch an anime, I don't know about the Japanese military or school system, so I'm confused. I was genuinely confused that Satoh's parents Welcome to the NHK were able to pay for his apartment. Are apartments in Japan cheaper, or are his parents loaded?
"Relatable" probably isn't the word I should've used.
>>83473437
I prefer for my semen demons to haveno penis, but yeah, Japan knows how to make them.
>>83469228
>Suicide bomber.
Are you suppose to be dead if you unleash that attack.
>>83456515
>Season 2 Never Ever
>>83474166
It's stated in the show his parents have enough money to pay his living expenses and even if it wasn't it would be something that could be reasonably inferred. I don't think its something to be "genuinely confused" about.
>>83473437
And best tomboys
>>83466167
wipe the cum out of your eyes and look at the anime industry
if western animation is dead, anime would be the undead monstrosity that not even a mad scientist could be proud of
>>83467419
>trigger
>genius
saving anime
>>83456309
European comics and cartoons>Everything else
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4pr8LHW.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
Japan finally has a character who could put up a fight against Bugs Bunny.
>>83474403
I'm looking at it and it looks a hell of a lot better than the west
>>83456406
This desu
>>83474021
I'm more disappointed that WataMote isn't getting a second season. Come to think of it, all of my favorite comedy die too early.
>WataMote
>Space Dandy
>Funimation's Crayon Shin-Chan
Actually, Shin-Chan had a good run, but I was hoping they'd do one of the movies, and they never did.
>>83474566
They are both in deep shit but different kinds of deep shit.
Western is in a state where CEO's want to shoehorn as much merchandise as they can, while completely ignoring what makes shows good.
Also, while not in anime territory they are homogenizing art styles with that horrible round pastel colours shit they are pumping out.
>>83474528
I would pay money to see Sakamoto vs Bugs
The West
>An industry controlled by corporate greed and profit
The East
>An industry controlled by fan greed and profit
Pretty sure both are shit and going down the drain senpai, and if disney does get a foothold in anime then were all fucked
>>83475414
Lets hope disney will not get hold of anime. I hope that Ghost of the shell live action movie is gonna flop.
>>83475531
I hoping for the opposite since that will drive them to make live action anime instead of going into actual japanese anime
These days interesting stuff comes out of Japan way more often than American cartoons.
Both rely too much on safe formulas, Japan with cgdct and SAO clones, the west with child oriented sitcoms. Japan just gets way more chances to release something fresh and exciting because you get over a dozen new shows every season instead of the same handful of cartoons for the next 3 or 4 years like /co/ material. Being able to do 2D animation with heavier subject matter and action shows helps with that variety too.
Not that great new things can't come out of Western animation, it's just few and far in-between with TV animation. If you look into shorts and films the ground between East and West is much more even.
>>83475584
i hope it'll be a success but only to stop japan from making live action anime
20-35 year old japanese men cant act. the rurouni kenshin movies and assasination classroom had such shit acting. though i havent seen shingeki so i cant say for that one and it's been too long since i've seen nana so i cant say for that either
>>83475584
But then normalfags will ruin anime shows with SJW bullshit. I dont want that to happen.
>>83475531
isnt there a rumor that theyre going after ghibli or shaft?
>>83475740
>implying neets and weaboos havent ruined it already
worst part is that those fucking japanese execs are looking at western weaboos as a future source of revenue bad enough the otaku an fujoshit have control over the market but if you add weaboos into the mix then its going to be over
>>83474113
>I swear anime requires more time investment from the first season onward in order to get the full experience.
Yeah, because a lot of anime at meant to tell one story rather than small stories where you can just jump into it whenever. That isn't to say that there isn't anime where you can just jump in anywhere because that exists.
>>83474166
>I relate to Shinji Ikari even more. I'm pretty much just Shinji
>a depressed, self absorbed brat
Why do you relate to Shinji when you have loving parents? Shinji is Shinji, because he had PTSD and a manipulative/neglectful father.
>>83475271
Space Dandy had an entire 26 episodes. That's way more than a lot of anime get today.
>>83475740
But the American white men already did that when they wrote Japan's constitution?
>>83476177
Some people are just fucked up. Hell, Shinji's more fucked up than both Misato and Asuka, and their pasts are way more traumatic.
>>83456309
i wish eastern animators would do more collabs with western animators
imagine what genndy could do with studio trigger
>>83473423
Pretty much.
>>83473437
That's...that's not what you think it is.
Japan focuses on aesthetics and so has great art design and shit animation, West focuses on animation and so has great animation with really simple art design.
>>83476567
What do you mean?
>>83476471
>imagine what genndy could do with studio trigger
Continue to not get a season 2?
>>83459439
It wasn't a studio thing, everyone just wanted to look like whatever the big thing at the time was. People are still trying to copy Tezuka.
>>83476669
don't remind me nigga
>>83476567
Semen demons don't need to be girls, silly.
>>83476642
Oh wait. Yes it is.
Just checking.
>>83466542
I mean it's not just Japan that gives too much money to the voice actors and not enough to the animators. Yeardley Smith gets $300,000 an episode for just voicing Lisa and that's just her normal speaking voice.
>>83476858
>Dan Castellaneta voices 26 characters
>Hank Azaria voices 24 characters
>Harry Shearer voices 23 characters
>Yeardley Smith voices 1 character
>All paid the same
Fucking bullshit.
Because western animation isn't anywhere near as large a part of the economy as what anime is to Japan you get more "experimental" stuff in western animation.
>>83476289
>Shinji's more fucked up than Asuka
>>83476675
That's like saying western cartoons are still trying to copy Walt Disney. What's your point
I feel like Japan could do a ton more if their schedules weren't hell and they had some more money pumped into them, but I think those conditions also only allow for super nerds to exist in them and all the good and bad that comes with that.
Honestly, the quickest comparison is checking out each countries' big animation school most recent studen/graduate films. I think it's pretty obvious how mediocre Calarts has become in comparison.
https://vimeo.com/channels/calartscharanimfilms2016
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOfyN_R9UTSo4-UcvB3y4RYm0g4RAu5iz
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7IGBkaIQiG8lJxxOYMzdZJ85jfXv5cdo
>tfw season 2 will comealso posting best girls
The only things that Japan does better is output rate. That's it. And since the industry has been facing deadly over-saturation for over a decade, it's been to it's detriment.
>>83476289
Misato didn't speak for like 7 years after the 2nd impact. The only reason she seems in control now is because she has the chance to get revenge on the angels.
>>83456309
>Why hasn't Japan produced many CGi works?
Because they suck at CGI. Plus, CGI is hard to do with rotoscoping, which Japan still does so much since their animators know so little about gestures and body language.
>>83456406
Keep sucking that nip dick, fampai.
>>83477399
>tfw no it fucking wont you fucking liar i fucking hate you fuck you
>>83475752
Shaft? Why would disney care about shaft?
Japan could learn to actually animate more, and how to do pacing and comedy.
Amerca could learn how to produce more and more varied content, as well as how to budget.
>>83476471
I still want them to let Trigger reboot MLATR.
>>83476998
Wouldn't say that's entirely true, but I do think the anime market makes it difficult for experimental or original stuff to do well, But in the past half decade or so, there's still been some fairly experimental projects like Shin Sekai Yori, Kyousougiga, Space Dandy, and Animator Expo.
Also check out the episode director list before badmouthing Space Dandy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Space_Dandy_episodes
Though I keep up with anime more than I do than cartoons so give me a heads up if there's anything fairly experiential on the western end of things that I'm missing. Wander Over Yonder is all that's coming to mind.
>>83456309
>the closet thing to season 2 we will ever get is some alright drawn fan fiction and some softcore porn made by some horny manga artists
well that sucks
>>83475792
Otakus have been target audience since 80s. But back then it was mecha what otakus wanted.
>>83477559
hey they never said they wouldn't make a second season
>>83477587
Japan is great at pacing episodes. Comedy is just a cultural thing. Unless you mean "pacing" in the sense of multiple weeks of episodes tying together.
>>83477428
But i still enjoy anime. This season has been pretty good.
>>83456309
West:
-Not much variety. Only thing that ever gets made are capeshows from the big 2, whacky comedies, and educational stuff for preschoolers.
-general population views cartoons as stuff for kids, unless its a movie which greatly stifles the diversity in shows
-Once the creator leaves, the show will continue but with different writers that have completey different viewpoints on where to take the show
-Used as soap boxes for serious social issues since liberal hipsters are making them and think its a good idea to project their values into cartoons.
+Being noncanon comedy shows, anyone can watch it at any point without being confused about what's going on
+Usually has better animation(sometimes)
+writing tends to be well received globally
Anime
+There is something for everyone. Material from every genre you can think of from action, drama, and romance.
+touches social subjects western cartoons are too afraid to, or immaturely handle
+creator has full reign over writing. no input from 30 different people.
-writing is hit and miss. Especially when it comes to comedy.
>>83456309
I think that both sides have a lot of merit to them.
Japan is technically better at just about everything. Coloring, movement, execution, etc...
But when it comes to plot and varied art style, American stuff is a lot less restricted and more creative. Aside from some gems, modern anime is just a collection of tropes from other anime slapped together, in both story and character. Art styles seem to follow one incredibly common rubrick and not stray far enough to be compelling. Although American art is far less detailed, there's still a lot of variation in style, color, and tone, and they just seem to have a lot more fun and a bit more soul.
>>83477587
But maybe japan comedy is like that and we just dont understand it. But i like some comedy anime.
>>83477661
>Japan is great at pacing episodes
all in all i think we just have to admit that france beats both.
it has:
-the great technical execution and movement of the japanese
-fun and varied character designs of americans
>>83477789
>>83477661
Comedy:
>How was the movie?
>About 90 minutes.
Japanese "comedy":
>How was the movie?
>About 90 minutes.
>I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE LENGTH!
>>83473660
monogatari is shit
>>83477591
Shinsekai Yori is one of my favorite shows but there's nothing really "experimental" about it. Can you expound on what you mean? It's just a very good adaptation of a novel (a real novel, not some light novel bullshit). And I don't think being experimental is inherently a good thing either.
>>83477875
holy shit this is true
Anime and cartoons have their upsides and downsides, but the really big thing that anime has over cartoons hands down is the season structure system.
It means that we get a fuckton of shows every year, so if some of them are generic pandering shit we'll still have at least one or two shows every few months to look forward to.
>>83477789
What's there not to understand? Japanese have shitty comedy. They always explain their joke after it happens.
>character asks character not to do thing
>character does thing anyway
>" I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY DID THE THING I SAID NOT TO DO AT THIS VERY MOMENT"
>>83477831
Got a counter argument or your just gonna shitpost? Japan is great at pacing episodes. Shows like Naruto and Bleach are outliers because they're so close to the manga they have to write it in a way where they pad it out so they can adapt the next episode for the next chapter. Compare Naruto with Jojo's Bizzare Adventure where they're so far behind the manga they have about 300 more episodes before they get close to the manga as it is now. Jojo is well paced and adds things to make it flow better. Not even mentioning anime that aren't adaptations or cashgrab toy commercial anime.
>>83477971
yeah, but thats because theres almost no adult demand for animation in the USA, and its not the best idea to make highly structured plots and seasons for shows directed at elementary schoolers
hopfully the existence of sausage party, shitty as itll be, will actually open some kind of new gate for teen/adult animation
>>83474566
something looking good on the surface does not necessarily mean it is of quality. you're beating off your wallet to the latest cashcow poor quality adaptation of a moeshit dating sim and that is exactly what they want you to do.
>>83473437
Damn right. Both literally and figuratively.
Speaking of which, Scanty > any other PSG girl
>>83477529
How?
It's too small.
>>83477875
Watch things like Nichijou, Great Teacher Onizuka, Cromartie Highschool, Azumanga Daioh then tell me hurr Japanese can't do comedy
>>83477831
This is such an incredibly blanket and meaningless statement. There are plenty of shows with good pacing (mostly the good ones) and plenty of shows with bad pacing (mostly the bad ones). To say something like "Japan doesn't know how to pace shows" tells me you haven't actually seen many good shows.
>>83478017
I can't remember the last anime I watched that had decent pacing. It's always:
>Recap
>One single thing happens, everyone comments on it
>ON THE NEXT EPISODE OF-
>>83478087
Name the last three anime you watched because it sounds like you watched stuff that would air on toonami in the 90s
>>83478081
That's a fistful of good comedies across a genre that produces dozens every year. Michael Bay movies have a better good/bad ratio.
>>83478016
Can you give examples or are you just going to keep making meaningless blanket statements
i just want science saru to do a collab with some french animation studios, then i can die happy
>>83476471
That one episode of Adventure Time with the Mind Game guest animator was the absolute best. It'd be wonderful to see more of that as well as seeing prolific western animators taking on anime.
Do you guys think the age of the animators varies a lot from East to West in modern animation? Will we see great improvements in Western animation as the younger content creators gain experience?
>>83478048
>I have no idea what I'm talking about and don't actually watch much anime but spout generalizations anyway: The Post
wew lad
>>83478116
Bakuman
Ping Pong
Psycho Pass
>>83478127
It's pretty much exactly the same ratio to the west.
>>83478016
True but maybe japanese like it, i dont give a shit. But there is some good comedy anime out there.
>>83477935
I meant more in the animation qualities rather than the story. I agree that experimentation isn't inherently good, but its presence is a good indication if there's a good creative environment or not.
Linking what I'm talking about animation-wise because the file size is too big: https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/19580/animated-character_acting-effects-running-shingo_y
>>83478136
You don't watch anime if you seriously need examples. Go watch one episode of Osomatsu-san or any comedy anime and fuck off
>>83478136
Not him, but that was every single joke of Bobobo-Bo-Bobo.
Cromartie and Watamote are the only anime I've seen that DIDN'T rely on that format.
>>83478169
a compelling response
Ya know what was a funny anime? Excel Saga.
Yup.
>>83478203
The west has about 1/10 the number of content and as many or more good ones at any guven time.
>>83478200
Haven't seen the first two but if you think Psycho-Pass had terrible pacing it de-legitimatizes your claim and makes me question the validity of your opinion.
>>83478048
But i dont pay for anime.
>>83478265
ropponmatsu 2 best character
>>83478265
Ya know what else is funny? Your life.
>>83478221
Osomatsu doesn't use the boke/tsukkomi routine too much though. Like out of all the comedy orientated animes out there recently, that one at least tries to shake it up enough to not have to solely rely on that.
>>83478286
i was more or less referring to the insane amounts of merch
>>83478158
I think both start mostly in their early twenties, though there's some people who go straight from high school to working on anime. I'm more interested how future projects will work out because there seems to be a ton of weebs in the western industry now.
I would love something like Joker's Game from the US.
>>83478245
What are the last 5 shows you've watched
French>Japan>America
This is an objective fact.
>>83478316
Yeah but that is what otakus buy and that is what pays for anime. But i do buy figurines sometimes.
>>83478299
Eh, not "ha-ha" funny.
>>83478408
Man I was about to argue this but I can't.
Damn frogs got us all beat.
>>83478383
Jokers game turn out to be pretty fucking great.
>>83478400
logh
hunter x hunter
dennou coil
neo tokyo
osomatsu (most episodes were hit or miss)
i used to watch anime often but now i don't have time
>>83477399
>>83477559
>their eyes are the same pattern
>people *didn't* see the troll twist coming
>>83478655
Thank god i am NEET. i have always time for watching anime.
>>83478031
>Seth Rogen will lead a total and positive change in the animation industry.
Let that sink in.
>>83478794
>tfw i actually like seth rogen
his comedy is okay but he seems like a total bro
>>83478655
So how many good shows do you think there have been in the last 5 years?
>>83478031
>>83478794
I doubt it. If Coon Skin, Fritz the Cat or hell even South Park: BLU, which is the one adult animation movie everyone knows and generally enjoys, didn't influence shit why would Sausage Party be different?
>>83478858
I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up causing some controversy because some stupid mother brings their kids to it.
>>83478031
The day any Sony Puctures movie isn't some soulless corporate product is the day I'd actually eat crow. Sausage Party is literally Seth Rogan's pet project and Sony is only going through with it because Seth's 15 minutes of fame are on their last legs. Otherwise it will be as forgettable as any other Sony Pictures animated movie. They're like a lesser Illumination despite having lived longer.
>>83478913
Cant wait for that to happen.
>>83478858
SP and Coon Skin are all genre comedies that would rely on a pre-established fanbase to respond to them.
Sausage Party is actually a big budget movie with a cast of well known and popular comedy actors, so it's aimed for a large normie audience. It's going to be a shitty movie, but the cycle generally goes like this:
Sausage party goes well --> more movies like sausage party are made --> movies then rely on the success of animated adult humor and start tackling heavier themes along with them (think bojack horseman) --> potential for full on serious adult animation to be successful, thus made
>>83479037
>normalfags gonna eat it up
I am not gonna be suprised if it happens.
>>83478772
Panty's eyes are the same, too. What if Panty was a demon the whole time?
>>83478963
see >>83479037
But I'm not saying Sausage Party is gonna be a good movie. I'm saying that it's going to open doors.
Look at Family Guy and South Park. (Although I love SP) Both of them are shallow comedies that attract a certain audience. However, they help established an actual "adult animation" demographic, and now shows like Bojack and Archer, primarily comedies with over-arching plots and some serious themes, not only exist, but have a good amount of success. I see them as a transition period, and in the next ten years, studios are actually going to be able to make full-on teen + animated shows that aren't just comedies.
>>83479177
Demon in the sack...
>>83456309
West because I can understand what the fuck they're saying.
>>83479177
>Season 2 actually happens
>Stocking is, after a long and arduous journey, reunited with the gang
>Suddenly Panty stabs her
>I actually was a demon all along, too
>TO BE CONTINUED..?
>>83479177
PLOT TWIST the demon sisters were angels this whole time
They both have severe problems in their own ways, so much that I can't say which one is better than the other.
Anime is incredibly 'incestuous' (yeah yeah I know). The medium is centered almost solely in Japan and the Japanese love to take one another's ideas, add or remove a gimmick, then pump out a nearly identical clone. Every fucking season like 75% of the shows are the same Cute Girls With Gimmick Personalities Doing A Sport/Club/Activity, the Battle Harem with Bland Protagonsit and Slutty One-Personality Girls, the 'Comfy Show where Nothing Happens', etc. etc.
It's the same shit and they're all mired by fucking awful characters that finding something unique in the pile of trash is a godsend. Konosuba was hailed as amazing simply because the protagonist ACTUALLY HAD A PERSONALITY.
Also, Japan's humor is incredibly hit or miss, mostly a miss. This is of course because they live in their own bubble. The more 'in' a joke becomes the worse off it is, and Japan's entire humor style suffers from that.
Also, Japan can't write an ending to save their lives. Every ending manages to fail spectacularly. Most of the time it's because a writer tries to come off as unique but mostly ends up fucking up the story.
TLDR don't listen to the weebs. Anime has its strengths but its mostly fucking awful, just like western animation.
This person >>83475414 nailed it the most I believe. The Japanese fanbase being mostly young males who want to see nothing but cute girls being lesbians with each other isn't a big help.
>>83456449
You don't know the horror of that until you see the CGI berserk movies.
>>83479440
Oh and all of those I mentioned are Light Novel/Manga adaptations, meaning they get no fucking closure.
>>83456309
I hope season 3 of haruhi will happen before i die.
>>83479177
brief also has them......holy shit
>>83456515
they are really back and forth on it.
supposedly trigger, having a good chunk of PSGs chief staff, can get the rights no problem but they think a second season isn't interesting enough to pursue.
but at some con recently (i don't remember where so this could all be bs) someone at gainax or trigger spoke briefly about a team up.
>>83479440
And i still find every season atleast 2 or 3 shows what i like but i guess i just have shit taste.
>>83478825
>Comedy is okay
Eh. Stoner films hot their peak a long time ago. The last good one I saw was Harold and Kumar.
>>83479548
>they think a second season isn't interesting enough to pursue.
Damn Japs.
Anime's biggest strength is anime gets like 100+ new series a year.
Cartoons what...not even a dozen a year.
Also anime has a lot more genres. Cartoons these days are all the same shit for the most part.
>>83479576
Anime has the benefit of being actually alive unlike western animation which is basically dead.
You get like what, 10 - 15 new shows every season? One or two of them HAS to be half decent, right?
I always kinda feel like
Anime is either really good or terrible. There's not much in between shit.
Cartoons, OTOH, always seem to range between "okay" and "pretty damn good."
>>83479598
mostly something about how scanty, kneesocks, and briefs wouldn't be a great group to work around/ have the lasting power for a whole season.
source: friend talked to one of the concept artists. so not the most reliable place for info.
>>83479598
Well it did sell like shit in japan. Otakus have shit taste in anime and anime girls.
>>83479616
see
>>83479440
There's a shitton more anime nowadays but that's only cause every fucking one note light novel series is getting an adaptation so most of them end up being the same shit.
>>83479651
More than just 15 new shows. But i do find what i enjoy every season.
>>83479440
>Japan can't write an ending to save their lives. Every ending manages to fail spectacularly
Can you give examples of actual shows you think had bad endings?
>75% of the shows are the same
There are still enough good shows that come out of the industry (among other reasons) that you can comfortably say Japanese animation is superior desu. Just because there are a lot of shows that try to be products doesn't disqualify the shows that try to be art.
>>83479765
It's better than nothing.
Not to mention the genre thing again.
When was the last time we had a serious action cartoon? Or a serious romance? Etc
>>83479705
So hurry up and revive Panty.
Or hey, just retcon the ending of the first season entirely. Not like this show relied on plot that much anyway.
>>83479717
Ain't that the truth. They let Nichijou just die.
>>83479616
>anime has a lot more genres
Ignoring the fact that 95 of those 100 new animes are either "slice of life" or "Highschool romance".
>>83479765
But light novel adaptions are kinda dying. There is not so much as like last year.
>>83479776
Not that guy but I honestly struggle to come up with an anime that actually had a good ending. Bad endings are a dime a dozen. Hell the thread started with Gainax who are pretty much the kings of shitty endings.
>>83479802
Nichijou was too over to top for japs to handle.
>>83478833
there has been quite a few. maybe i'm cynical but many shows that could have once been considered good deteriorate when they realize the fans are willing to consume anything they shit out. anime turns to shit when it panders to fans. the same could be said about western cartoons, re: steven universe.
i have nothing against su or rebecca sugar, all i can think about when i see it is people that went to calarts going "HEY REMEMBER MY WEEB PHASE" #relatable
>>83479466
this guy gets it
>>83479842
Lupin 2015 had pretty good ending.
>>83479863
As much as I love nichijou that was really kyoanis fault. The DVDs were fucking ridiculously expensive and the show wasn't cheap to make. They definitely got quality out of it but they shot themselves in the foot.
>>83479651
>You get like what, 10 - 15 new shows every season
You get a hell of a lot more than that especially if you count movies, OVAs, or shorts. In 2011 there were about 200 combined shows/movies that aired. And usually there's at least a few good shows worth watching each season and some great ones that still pop up. The volume is a plus because it allowed for a much wider range of audiences and intentions to be viable as opposed to the west.
>>83479796
That's true but at the same time that's like either asking for more of the same mediocre garbage or none at all; neither option should be preferable. The last big western action toon I remember watching was Tron Uprising and I guess it was just too much for the mouse to handle. Fucking dicks.
There's never been a serious romance anime though, high school crush woes is nowhere near the same thing as a romantic drama.
>>83479817
If that's the case then I need to jump on seasonal lists soon. I missed out on OPM since I only had time to catch up on Osomatsu so I better get on that too.
