Last week saw DC Comics release their big Rebirth issue which tied the DC Comics universe directly into the Gibbons and Alan Moore's Watchmen universe.
Gibbons didn't seem too pleased by that.
"I wouldn't make the question too long. All I'm going to say is no comment," Gibbons said when Rebirth and Doctor Manhattan were brought up. "I have no comment."
Gibbons was then asked if he consulted on Rebirth or if DC bothered to drop him an e-mail.
"No, they didn't. And that's all I'm going to say," Gibbons said.
Gibbons then went on length about his thoughts on the DC film universe, Batman Vs. Superman, and the Marvel Universe (watch the full video below):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2tCWVKJaTg
Gibbons, I love thee.
>>83390691
Last few weeks have made my respect for Cereal Lord go up tremendously
Snyder should play Martian Manhunter, because he just got BURNED.
>that video
Based Gibbons.
>>83390691
>Gibbons was then asked if he consulted on Rebirth or if DC bothered to drop him an e-mail.
Why would they ask? Obviously I sympathize with him over DC's creatively bankrupt editorial but why even ask, you know how the entertainment industry works.
Isn't Dr. Manhattan in Rebirth a meta commentary about how DC and other companies took the wrong message from Watchmen, which resulted in darker heroes and plots with no substance?
>>83390960
For the same reason you ask him when you make a Watchman movie:
1) Give the project credibility.
2) Have someone who can step in when things go too far out of line, so it's not the reading audience first who's going to notice a massive tonal/lore shift.
Now I'm really wondering how he feels about Rebirth.
>>83391202
No, it's a meta commentary about how DC is creatively bankrupt
>>83390691
>it's the "Steve Ditko didn't create the Watchmen characters" meme
I disagree with him, but hell if I don't respect him like a motherfucker.
>>83391202
Nah, it's a cheap gimmick, a non-apology.
>>83390691
I wonder what it must feel like having a long career and having people only ask you about one or two projects you ever did.
It's like being a rock star but without the wealth and women.
>>83390691
did Marvel pay him to give this interview?
>>83391202
>He actually believes this
>>83391967
The fact that there's even "press" (note the "s) for this medium is extraordinary. If only we could get rid of them...
>>83390691
Nigga wrote Batman vs Predator, of course he's based
>>83391202
Who the fuck told you this?
>>83391202
Now that you mention, it could be.
>>83392123
WB PR
Based as fuck.
>>83392357
So many contrasts in this single image man. I keep noticing new things every time, like how the wind blows on Batman's back, while the wind hits superman from the front.Is it that Superman stands against the wind of chaos and evil, while batman is pushed forth by it?
>>83392123
probably some hypercrisis poster
>>83392123
it's been theorized on /co/ since the first spoilers thread
pretty sure other sites have posted about it too
Based Gibbons telling it like it is.
Slams? All he said was no comment, dipshit. Go read Gwenpool.
>>83392813
that spoiler text was beautifuly poetic anon
I don't really know...
Even if your theory makes sense, I'd say you're overthinking it. My point of view is that the difference in that aspect are only motivated by visual contrast.
>Supe's cape looks better when stretched backwards
>Bats's cape extending close to him makes him resemble a bat a little more
>>83391202
I never thought of it like that. But that does actually make sense. Especially when one takes into account the problems with 90s comics.
Though people say there was nothing good to come out of 90s comics when there was actually a massive flourishing of new and exciting ideas. But I do agree that a lot of the popular trends in the 90s were shitty.
>>83390907
what did geoff johns do?
>>83391202
I saddens me that not everyone is getting this.
>>83393802
Well it says he "slammed" BVS and DC which he specifically did depending on what a "slamming" is to you
He said no comment about Rebirth specifically
>>83391202
If it is then Johns seems to have a massive lack of self-awareness when you consider what he did in Infinite Crisis, Blackest Night, and Forever Evil. Probably some other books of his as well.
Why are people praising Gibbons while shitting on Moore?
>>83394916
Well I wouldn't really call any of his heroes dark and his plots actually do have substance.
>>83395042
The Watchmen Wars are as confusing and nonsensical as they are endless.
>>83395073
But all three of those stories were pretty goddamn violent.
>>83391202
That's exactly what it is. It's pretty amazing so many retards don't understand it.
>>83391202
I'd rather have dark heroes and plots with no substance than tumblr heroes and plots with negative substance like we have over at Marvel.
>>83395114
And so are tom & jerry cartoons.
>>83394810
>>83395120
>we're not shit guys, we were just misguided
Nah, this meme won't fly.
>DCshills will try to damage control thisinb4 the mods delete this
Waiting for all the Marvel haters to crap o the guy for saying what we say the difference between the movies is and then get called Marvel drones
>>83391202
No anon. No it's not
>>83391202
Wouldn't this angle work better in a solo piece examining these themes alone? Rather than in Rebirth, where Johns (mistakenly in my opinion) implies that comics were still stuck in the so-called 'edgy' phase come The New 52, and Rebirth is a return to the 'proper' form.
And wasn't this already addressed in Kingdom Come?
After the interview, Dave then went on to say off record that he felt Zack Snyder was a "bloody twat" and violently spit on the floor before storming off.
>>83391202
The real question is, does it count if said meta-commentary is unintentional?
Because I have a hard time forgetting that Johns is the guy that said "Impulse? Kid appeal character? I'm gonna shoot him in the kneecap and make him SERIOUS THE FUCK UP"
>>83391202
That's kinda hypocritical coming from Geoff "Mirror Master doing coke off a mirror" Johns.
>>83395290
Us DC fans can't say anything positive about DC or defend it against blatant trolls because we always just get banned. /co/ is Marvel haven
>>83395490
>dat persecution complex
>>83395430
>>83395476
See, this is what I mean. Johns has done things that fall into the very thing he's now fighting against but hasn't acknowledged it at all. You can't fight against something you see as a problem and not admit that you helped perpetuate it.
>>83395490
>/co/ is Marvel haven
>>83395520
But it's true. Try saying something bad about a Marvel comic while saying something nice about a DC comic and you'll more than likely end up banned for a day. Happens all the time. Mods love that Marvel cock
>>83395042
Because Gibbons isn't a complete curmudgeon.
>>83395635
>Try saying something bad about a Marvel comic while saying something nice about a DC comic and you'll more than likely end up banned for a day.
Okay. I'll try it right now.
I think that DC has better young superheroes and legacy characters than Marvel.
>>83395635
If you honestly believe that, why do you still post here?
Also, why identify yourself as a Marvel/DC fan? Just be a comic fan. Company wars are for 13-year olds.
>>83395671
>Marvel
>legacy characters
Too bad none of them really stick around for more than a few months.
>>83395621
I only see Marvel hate and ppl sucking DC cock while callling anyone that criticizes DC Marvel Drones, even when the person doesnt read either
>>83395635
A majority of /co/ preferred DC out of the big two for the longest time.
Contrary to what /tv/ shitposters would have you believe, it still is that way, at least when it comes to actual comics.
>>83395490
Ive talked shit about both and never got banned, but Im measured if you are a person that goes around hating everything Marvel 24/7 Im sure mods catch up to you just be8ng a hater
>>83395671
You're not really saying something bad about Marvel.
>>83395734
Nothing wrong with having preferences.
I don't care much for Marvel as a whole so I just don't read it.
I like what DC and various indie companies put out over them.
>>83395635
We have daily circlejerks where we shitpost about cherrypicked panels in Marvel comics we don't read.
At least I don't read them, but I shitpost just the same.
>>83395476
But isn't Mirror Master a villain and not a hero?
Seems to me that a villain doing coke isn't particular dark or edgy.
Simmons is 100% right though. There's no thematic contrast in the DC movieverse, and it absolutely tried to do too many stories in one movie.
>>83395856
There's nothing wrong with having preferences, but when the brand logo on the cover of the comic turns you off from reading it, that's blatant fanboy behavior.
>>83391202
You're overestimating DC.
>>83395114
You know what else is pretty violent?
The myths of old and legnds of yore.
Fairytales
Human nature
>>83395759
That's why it's funny. There's a blatant DC internet defense force on /co/, let's not pretend it's the opposite.
>>83395878
99% of the time DC heroes don't do anything dark or edgy either.
>>83395917
That's the definition of a preference.
>>83395542
Those are barely edgy at all. Johns haters are getting ridiculous.
>>83391202
If they were smart, they might be able to turn it into one.
They are not smart.
>>83396041
What by your definition is edgy then?
>>83395979
No, that's the definition of a fanboy. And it sounds like you've been banned on more than one occasion for trolling Marvel books you apparently won't read or give a chance just because of the stupid brand logo, so sorry if I don't have much sympathy for you.
/co/ is so retarded
>>83396110
This is the problem with EDGE. It's so nebulous and ill-defined and most people just toss it out all willy-nilly. I'll admit that I've probably done it myself and I suppose there's an argument to be made that I've done it tonight in this very thread, but again, what IS and what ISN'T edge is rather subjective and changes from person to person.
>>83395979
No it's not
>>83395979
Not really.
>>83390691
>Zack is a very talented filmmaker
stopped it right the fuck there
>>83395914
I don't think anyone's disputing that really.
>>83396110
It's contextual
>>83396141
I prefer other books over Marvel. I've read their books and I don't care for a lot of them. Why would I keep reading them if I generally don't like them?
Idk why it matters, but the only thing i've been banned for is posting NSFW. I don't care enough to shitpost in marvel threads, because I don't care enough about Marvel to bother.
>>83396215
>>83396236
"a greater liking for one alternative over another or others."
Yes it is. Not liking one company and liking another one is a preference.
>>83390691
Gibbons is absolutely right. He is 100% right and put my feelings better than I could. As much as it fucking pains me to say it as I'm a much bigger fan of DC characters than Marvel characters by a long way, their cinematic universe is just a complete and utter fuckup. I wish more than anything it wasn't. But it is.
>>83396255
>I don't think anyone's disputing that really.
This gets disputed here all the fucking time
>>83396367
Liking DC over Marvel is one thing, but outright refusing to read a good comic book because of the publisher is another.
>>83396367
That quote literally says "Liking both but liking one more" you mong
>>83396245
he really is though kid
>>83396401
Dem people are dum then
>>83396411
I don't know man, I refuse to read anything published by Zenescope
>>83396110
Johns never wrote something fucked up for no real reason. Besides, to me, I think Edgy would be something approaching Crossed levels of insane disturbing content, but even then something being somewhat edgy isn't inherently bad.
Besides, Johns is allowed to change his mind on previous work on attitudes towards story writing. Alan Moore and plenty of other writers have done the same. Johns doesn't have to come out and say "Yeah I did this shit years ago and now I feel differently" if that's the case, and neither does any writer. It's obvious from them doing it.
Watchmen itself wasn't edgy, but it did inspire quite a few edgy tryhard attempts to recreate what it did well. It's not that much of a stretch to say Johns is using it for a metaphor.
Is Johns some super deep writer? No, of course not, he's good at writing popcorn comics, but the guy shouldn't be shit on by 4chan neckbeards for trying something a little different just because he's getting too popular these days. Never used to hear a bad word about him
>>83390691
I watched the video and he is absolutely 110% right.
>>83396411
This is the way proper comic book readers should be.
>>83396487
>Crossed
Crossed isn't edgy because they're self conscious comics. Blood and sex doesn't automatically mean edgy, that's the american fallacy.
>>83396411
I don't care for a lot of Marvel characters. I just don't. I'm sure something like Silver Surfer Requiem or Miller's Daredevil is very good. But i'm just not very interested in the characters.
>>83396430
"a feeling of liking or wanting one person or thing more than another person or thing"
You don't have to necessarily like something to prefer something else over it.
>>83396571
>Blood and sex isn't edgy
But rape and gore is which is what Crossed is all about.
>>83396797
They're not edgy either, no subject matter is edgy by itself, (except for knives, I suppose) it depends on the treatment.
>>83396983
I don't know man, I think cliffs are kind of edgy. Borderlines, maybe.
>>83391245
Oh
So that's why CN asked Craig about nuPPG
>>83390691
I wonder what his thoughts were on Pax Americana.
>>83397334
>CN doesn't ask Craig about reboot
>It's a piece of shit with no redeeming factors that exists for the sole purpose of selling toys
I don't see the problem Anon. I didn't claim it's physically impossible to not ask for consultation. I just said what you want when you ask for consultation.
It's not like the show being contradictory to the tone of the original or having 0 credibility will affect the toy sales.
>>83396571
>american fallacy
edgy is a nebulous slang term, usage is bound to vary. Your culture is not the baseline from which all others are measured. Don't be a blindly ethnocentric faggot your whole life, faggot.
>>83390960
I feel it's not even a matter of asking but simply warning him. Like "hey we're gonna use these characters you co-created for our next project. Would be nice if you approve of it but we don't really care anyway" is simply a matter of courtesy.
>>83397902
Not a good idea, what if some creator (maybe not Gibbons) gets that call and goes bonkers, then the next day he's like "so fans, DC called me and they told me they were gonna mess with X, I'm publicly denouncing it".
Your shit is fucked family.
>>83395635
Nigga have you missed all the Whor, SG, GotG, Civil War II, Hellcat and so on threads? It's nothing but shitting on these comics. Wake up you fuck.
>>83391799
He literally didn't though. Have you ever read his Action Heroes stuff? The characters have nothing but surface similarities with their Watchmen counterparts.
>>83391202
Geoff Johns is edgy as fuck though. If that's what he's saying he's a massive hypocrite.
>>83394916
clearly watchmen made him turn the superhero superboy prime into a murderous lunatic bitchboy.
that kind of character assassination isnt his fault.
>>83395042
because gibbons didnt offend their beloved capeshit company.
>>83398656
DAMN YOU ALAN MOOOOOOOOORE!!!!!! DOES YOUR EVIL HAVE NO LIMITS!!!!1?!??!?!?!?????!?!?!?
>>83395635
did you miss all the DC fanboys dismissing any criticism of rebirth by endlessly posting the same 5 or so panels of Thor, Hellcat, and Angela?
>>83391202
I hope not. Alan Moore, Frank Miller, and many other writers already came to that conclusion in the late 80's. I'd hate to think Johns only now just realized that.
>>83398725
He probably realized before but DC is only letting him criticize it now which raises the question of why now?
>>83398774
It finally sunk in that Moore isn't coming back so they probably decided to trash him.
>>83391202
How the fuck does dark heroes = less substance?
>>83398774
>ok fuck the new 52 lets bring back the old continuity. also well make doctor manhattan as the big bad, that'll get us some extra hype
>but Geoff, wont people get mad?
>not if we justify it in a meta way, Jim.
>Geoff you've done it again!
>"Where the latest film suffered is because they were both these dark, opaque, angsty creatures."
Gibbons is a fucking idiot.
Superman isn't naturally dark and angsty in this universe, he was such in this film because the situation surrounding him was dour.
You want him fucking smiling and cracking jokes while most of the world fears him?
BvS was probably the best comic book movie since Spider-Man 2. Not that high a bar though.
>>83398861
Meanwhile Dan is just sitting there in a pool of his own sweat worrying about how much blame he'll have to take for this.
>>83398906
>while most of the world fears him?
He's saying that's a poor thematic direction to take in the first place. Conceptually, from the drawing board, the contrast is not there as it should be.
But whatever BEST MOVIE EVER THE ENTIRE PLANET IS WRONG right
>>83398906
>the situation surrounding him was dour
Thats the situation the writers put him in. They could have written the movie any way they wanted to, but they decided black on black was the way to go.
>>83398812
When writers rely on it as a crutch. Being an asshole isn't deep in of itself, and people lacking in creativity tend to confuse cynicism with intellectualism.
I can't wait until 2020 rolls around and we've gone past nostalgiafagging for the early 90s.
>>83399025
>nostalgiafgging for the 00s begins in earnest
>Identity Crisis wasn't that bad guys, lets revisit it
SHIEEEEET
>>83399099
Yeah but at least then we might see Cass-Batgirl or a well written Tim Drake again.
>>83398906
>he was such in this film because the situation surrounding him was dour.
Yes and that sucks. That's the problem
>>83398911
I'd say it was possibly worse than TASM2. Not a high bar either.
I mean, they practically had the same problems
>>83395921
Has nothing to do with the line of posts you're weighing in on
>>83395042
Gibbons
>Gives a well thought out critique of the DC movieverse as a whole and mentions both the positive and negative aspects of their recent projects and explains what he would have done differently in a realistic manner.
Moore
>tweets: I will spew venom at DC HQ from now on.
Gibbons is coming off as a creative critiquing the new series. Moore is coming off as an angry old man that wants people to stay off his lawn and not mess with his car.
>>83399479
Aaah ok. Thanks anon.
>>83399025
>Being an asshole isn't deep in of itself, and people lacking in creativity tend to confuse
cynicism with intellectualism.
Being cynical and prepared for the worst in life doesn't make you a asshole.
And it is fucking intelligent to not be naive.
>I can't wait until 2020 rolls around and we've gone past nostalgiafagging for the early 90s.
I've never read any 90s comics except Kingdom Come, Death of Super & Deodato's Thor run so this has nothing to do with Nostalgia.
>>83398911
>BvS was probably the best comic book movie since Spider-Man 2
>>83398973
>But whatever BEST MOVIE EVER
I strongly like BVS but bullshit dudes.
>He's saying that's a poor thematic direction to take in the first place
>>83398992
>>83399210
No its fucking not, you got your 5 happy silly campy bullshit dreck Superman films, 2 were good-ish, 1 was meh and 2 were some of the worst films ever made. Its time for something different. Nostalgia fags may vomit in their mouths over it, honestly I hope they fucking choke on it. (metaphorically)
>>83399479
Except Moore didn't tweet anything.
>>83399553
Does Moore even have a Twitter account? I'd assume he'd avoid social media cause too many idiots
>>83391202
Yes but Watchmenbabbies don't care. They are buttblasted that anyone would ever dare to sully the only comic book they've ever read
>>83399479
Moore doesn't have a twitter, that was someone's joke account.
>>83390691
I don't blame him. Rebirth is beyond retarded.
>>83399594
I thought his daughter did?
>>83398812
>he thinks edgy shit is good
>>83399533
>No its fucking not, you got your 5 happy silly campy bullshit dreck Superman films, 2 were good-ish, 1 was meh and 2 were some of the worst films ever made.
And then the next two were meh and shit (second one not even being a real Superman movie on that note)
Well we still haven't gotten a good movie since Superman II I guess
>>83399664
Moore has a daughter? How the fuck did he manage that? Did he magic her into existence?
>>83399667
>He thinks camp shit is good
>>83392123
I read the book.
>>83399687
two aparently
>>83399479
Moore doesn't have a twitter account and hasn't commented on the rebirth issue at all as far as I can tell. He would be 100% justified if he did say that though. Gibbons is being way too diplomatic but I understand he works with DC a lot and needs to eat so whatever.
>>83399667
Serious & realistic has nothing to do with Edge.
Ultimatum was edgy, Nemesis was edgy, Cannibal fucking Holocaust was edgy, MOS/BVS aren't edge in anyway.
>>83399701
>>83399701
how's being 14, champ? enjoying Daredevil? Excited for BASED PUNISHER?
>>83399679
>Serious Superman isn't a real valid version of Superman
Please go to fucking hell.
>>83399687
>>83399731
One of them, Amber does write comics. Don't know what the other does
>>83399775
I meant that it wasn't a solo Superman movie, nto that it wasn't a Superman movie at all.
We're never ever going to get a proper MoS2 because hurp durp gotta make Batman our headliner since MoS was an underperformer
>>83399779
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/leah-moore/4040-42215/
>>83399740
I'm 25.
Sense when does being a adult require you to enjoy barney & teletubby toned dreck?
>>83399811
>I meant that it wasn't a solo Superman movie, nto that it wasn't a Superman movie at all.
Once again GO TO FUCKING HELL.
There is NOTHING about it that makes it less of Superman film you pathetic fuckass.
>>83399868
What is wrong with you? I am saying it's not a solo Superman film. That's a fact. I'm not saying it's not a Superman movie. It's just also a Batman movie. At no point did I indicate it wasn't valid. It did suck though
>>83399919
Nevermind I thought you were talking about MOS.
I apologize.
>>83399533
>And it is fucking intelligent to not be naive.
cynicism is also naivety in a way.
>>83399964
MoS is bad. Cool your autism.
>>83399836
>being proud of being developmentally disabled
*tilts trilby*
>>83394916
He's commenting on his own work too, dummy.
>>83400079
Once again. How does mentally being a mature adult require you to enjoy tones that 10 year olds would laugh at?
>>83399826
Yeah, that's about what I'd expect a groinspawn of Alan Moore, High Priest of the Serpent God to look like.
>>83400061
No its fucking incredible, that isn't my point, my point is that a dark serious Superman is still a valid mother fucking incarnation of the character.
>>83399479
>Moore
>>tweets: I will spew venom at DC HQ from now on.
He doesn't give a shit. People just ask him and when he says he doesn't like it the web just blows it out of proportion.
>>83400033
No its not, cynicism is knowing that life will factually fuck you over and their is nothing you can do about it and no amount of good times in life will make up for it.
>>83391202
No. Superman Prime already existed before Watchmen and he was an edgy fuck.
TDKR did more for the grimdark than Watchmen ever did anyways.
This is straight up changing history to excuse shit writing. The issue with bad comics is not that they are edgy, its that they are badly written and feel mostly like filler between big events. And no, Watchmen has nothing to do with this shit model.
Do you think Geoff got the wrong message from Watchmen and then wrote Justice League origins and Justice League Darkseid War? He wasn't a bad writer lol, he just got the wrong message from Watchmen! But now Geoff is here to save us from shit titles like the ones he made in the last years...because Dr. Manhattan stole love from the stories he wrote!
Yeah, no fuck him and fuck every retard to believe Watchmen is responsible for all the shit writing and an industry model based on shit super events. Watchmen message was never "maintain the status quo, keep legacy characters and write campy stuff" if anything it complained about forced status quo.
>>83398015
>what are nda's
>>83395671
>young superheroes
Well Marvel has the Avengers Ac-
Oh, yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah......
>>83400374
Things not every creator has, specially disgruntled past employees that could make the type of statement I said?
>>83400400
delete this
The DC universe has no sense of depth. They lightly delve into interesting concepts.
We're two movies in and all of this shit has happened.
>Superman is born
>Kryptonians attack
>Superman Kills
>People fear Superman
>Batman Meets/Fights Superman
>Flash
>Cyborg
>Wonder Woman
>Doomsday
>Lex Luthor
>Wonder Woman Meets Batman/Superman
>Death of Superman
These concepts are big enough to hold a movie down. Fuck. What else can you do? You're burning through big story ideas. This is like if Marvel's Iron Man 2 had been Civil War. I want them to succeed but they're being dumb.
>>83400549
Flash and Cyborg were cameos, is not really fair to say they were taken lightly or poorly developed.
Hell, I could argue WW was just an extended cameo too.
Superman died at the end of the movie, hard to see if there were consequences or if they delved lightly.
>>83400611
Cyborg's origin was done in a minute, that's like 3/4 of what makes him interesting.
>>83400549
They have a lot of shit to catch up on, so apparently their fix is to give it to us ALL at once.
>>83400234
That is naive cynicism.
It's not any smarter than any views.
>>83395042
Does it really matter? Both of them are just an outdated old man and their existence means shit when most people don't even know about them.
Does any actor, director, writer, or anyone like that LIKE Batman v Superman?
It had editing issues and Wonder Woman watching movie trailers on Youtube was lame, but I still thought it was good.But people are treating this like Hitler's shit, like it's the worst movie ever. It had its flaws but it doesn't deserve this tidal wave of hate.
>>83400193
>my point is that a dark serious Superman is still a valid mother fucking incarnation of the character.
Do you realize literally the entire reason we're even talking about the movies in this thread is because Simmons said that a dark superman means there's no thematic contrast between him and Batman? It's "valid" yes, for a given value of validity, but it's still tonally too close to play the characters off each other properly. You're not arguing that point. You're just throwing a tantrum.
>>83400174
She was raised by Moore's ex-wives so she looks like tumblr personified
>>83393158
hey leave us out of this. This shit is clearly some gentry nonsense trying to play along because the empty hand loves lazy metafiction.
....What is this shitty thread?
He says "no comment" to any Rebirth stuff and calls Zack Snyder a great filmmaker
>>83400984
Do you really think a famous name will praise a critical failure film? They won't even if they like it, all they do is follow the flows/media and that's about it.
>>83400549
The first movie of the DCU is an largescale alien invasion,not a guy fighting terrorists in a tin can
Why take it slow when your biggest concept (aliens) is present by default
>>83400984
It's not a very well made film. Some of the shots are pretty.
>>83401076
You don't have to do an alien invasion for a Superman Origin story.
>>83401076
A slow build helps people gain an attachment to the character beyond "I know of them and had a t-shirt with their emblem once"
>>83401181
But you can.
>>83400994
>with a "Dark" Superman there is no thematic conflict between him and Batman
Sure there is ya yutz
Christ
>>83401181
I would have preferred something similar to Smallville. Just Super learning how to use his powers and be a hero. A smaller scale villain.
Not the mopey hobo Superman in MoS with a retarded Pa Kent who actively discourages Clark from using his powers.
>>83401264
Insulting me won't change the validity of the argument. People in this very thread are praising this universe for giving us a "new and different" darker, more cynical Superman. They also praise this as the most "accurate" Batman ever. Batman by design is a darker, more cynical character. You can't have both those facets AND insist that the contrast between idealism and cynicism inherent to the characters is preserved. At best, you can pick two.
>>83400984
People who grew up loving Superman and Batman have grown sick and died waiting for this movie to exist.
Seeing Batman and Superman together on screen for the first time ever meant a lot to some people. If this movie was "Alien Jesus Fights Billionaire Ninja" it would probably just be mocked for its plot and dialogue, and praised for its nice looking cinematography, and then mostly forgotten about.
But this was BATMAN V SUPERMAN.
And the v suggests a trial. a debate, a clash of ideologies. Batman and Superman coming to blows over a true conflict between their famous ethical codes.
People are shitting all over this movie because it wasn't what it needed to be at all. It needed to be great and inspiring. Instead it was mediocre and depressing. It was a fundamentally unacceptable first outing of the Trinity.
>>83391202
Yes, Johns says as much in his interview. But most of /co/ is just retarded and refuses to believe in deeper meanings.
>>83400323
shut the fuck you you are the dumbest person i have ever seen
>>83401019
because /co/ is full of idiotic casuals
>>83400193
>>83400994
>Dark serious Superman
What? Dude's just a bit of an emo but he's nothing near dark&serious, you two.
>>83401212
You can do anything if you wanted. But I don't think a major earth threatening alien force lends itself to a Superman Origin movie. You'd want to start smaller.
>>83401624
Fuck off, retard
>>83401624
No, we refuse to believe Geoff Johns is capable of such a thing. It's more likely Morrison told him to say that, and if you seriously believe Rebirth will lead to "HOPE and LOVE" with the same editors and many of the same writers and artists DC had before Rebirth then you're the worst kind of idiot; a willful one.
>>83401715
I want to think the logic behind the decision was to establish Superman as falliable and not able to do anything.
But instead of being sensible and just lowering his power level, they kept him at Silver Age strength (or maybe even higher actually, given that even in Returns Clark gets injured thanks to Kryptonite) they just made him fail regardless and wrote him into increasingly contrived corners.
>>83399594
Moore is borderline retarded (by his own admittance) when it comes to technology. He participated in a kickstarter a few years back and one of the perk was being able to have a live Q&A on Skype with him. Reports said he barely knew how the thing worked and needed someone to set it up. The only part he got was essentially ''look at the screen, read the question out loud and answer them''.
Like other anons said, his FB page is administrated by his daughter and he rarely touches it.
>>83390691
Thank you Gibbons. What's interesting is he might have had some ideas that would have helped smooth things over.
For example if Lex Jr was exposed to Joker Venom or something it might explain his gradually deteriorating behavior without too much off world influence.
Superman tries to get Batman to find a cure since he has experience with it.
Bruce doesn't see a reason to help a criminal and but instead a chance to bring down Lex and Joker who have avoided the law and hurt their cities too long.
Superman has been trying to be more morally involved since Zod and has to interfere against his best wishes on the behalf of Lex, cue scuffle.
Since they did the Kryptonite thing anyway instead of Red Sun Radiation, which could have worked just as well really, throw in Metallo and Brainiac by condensing concepts.
Make Corben a shady government type who finds Brainiac (an extremist like Zod that was exiled but plays itself off as something benevolent utilized in terraforming efforts) on the ship and confiscates the assets to push his career forward.
He brings Lex on board to figure it out but his instability from Joker Venom results in him being kicked off, instead they get Silas Stone to work on developing a power armor as a defense for any further "potential Kryptonian threats". Cue Cyborg incident. Work is shutdown.
Silas takes his genius and focuses on saving his son.
Corben tries to push forward alone without Silas or the government's knowledge, partial success. Cue Green Goblin scenario. Corben brings Lex on board to help fix him and fund the project. Lex bluffs the failure is because a conscious Kryptonian body is required for an authorized user interface, sics Metallo on Superman to get rid of both.
>>83400323
The real problem is so many people just see "Johns criticizes Watchmen" and he too triggered to see the real point, which is "people took the wrong lesson from Watchmen". And it's not an indictment of the industry insiders enteral as it is of the problems the DCU has been facing since 2011.
>>83403107
*the industry in general
>>83401997
But he didn't fail.
>>83402660
Lex begins developing Doomsday and Amazo to use later as a made up Kryptonian weapon and Luthor Corp savior respectively.
Batman learns Joker was funded by Lex to disrupt Gotham and Wayne Industries for a Luthor Corp take over, Joker poisoned Lex in the end out of spite, also explains Joker getting out of Arkham often and his resources to stand even against Batman. No concrete evidence to tie Lex of course.
Anyway like Tony learns of Zemo and regrets his approach, Batman learns of Metallo while investigating Luthor. Develops a power armor from the scrapped Metallo Project files to face Metallo and Superman. Metallo is too much for Superman or Batman alone.
Superman convinces Bruce if he kills as a temporary solution they never learn the source of the problems.
They get over differences, team up, take down Metallo, Batman finds out about Cyborg and several other Metahuman incidents Corben's group were involved in or investigating. Find the ship, shut it down.
Lex already ran with the goods to prepare for next time.
Claims he shutdown Metallo from the ship painting himself as a human hero who doesn't have to dress up to do good while Superman and Batman were fighting in the mud. The usual Luthor media spin.Reveal Brainiac mutated Victor and Corben because he needs an organic host body to override kryptonian robot laws.
Diana can stick around as her mysterious self, but I don't think Wonder Woman needs to get involved with Metallo unless you tie the metal used to develop it and Cyborg to Themyscira and she has to retrieve it. Maybe make it Nth Metal, a gift from Thanagar to her she handed over to the government long ago and holds herself accountable for letting it get into the wrong hands. Which would explain her deciding to get more personally involved and track down the other artifacts she's lost. I'd just cut her honestly.
Point is connect things like Gibbons said.
Also Mercy doesn't die.
>>83400448
Nothing personal kid.
>>83398906
You're actually so fucking stupid that it's hilarious.
Do people forget Johns was one of the main responsibles for New52? If anything, the whole Manhattan thing makes him a cynical hypocrite.
>>83401598
>>And the v suggests a trial. a debate, a clash of ideologies. Batman and Superman coming to blows over a true conflict between their famous ethical codes.
This. That first trailer had me so excited. Zack responding to the MoS backlash with putting his Superman on trial looked fucking brilliant.
But it's just a big dumb mess of half-baked plots. Characters are shoved into frame like sears logos.
>>83402660
>>83403612
Don't post fanfiction on here anon. Go home you are drunk.
>>83390691
Gibbons sounds as butthurt about modern comics as Moore. They're just old men who have lived past their expiration dates.
>>83405119
>are you squidding me?
I really, really like that picture of Carlamari the Cuck.
>>83390691
Gibbons should be more pissed what Snyder did to his work.
Watchmen, the movie, was a mess.
>>83406790
What I gather from his statement is he saw Zack trying, not succeeding flawlessly but trying, to understand and adapt Watchmen was admirable at the time.
Now however, from his perspective anyway, Zack, Goyer, WB, etc do not seem to be trying with the same effort for the other material.
Also I have to laugh at people saying Dave is a grouchy old man, because he was talking like a giddy kid in a toy store about Civil War's action sequence just fine.
Unlike Moore Gibbons seems to love the idea of movie adaptations and is eager to see ideas from comics translate to other mediums.
On that matter I don't want to make it a tug of war, I fully get what Moore means on one hand. There are certain things no other medium can portray the way comics do like Manhattan's unique chronoperception through panel work, or the pacing being managed by the reader's ability to absorb information spread out in front of them as they turn pages at their leisure instead of being tugged by the time restraint of an episode or movie, being able to display multiple angles/scenes on one page without it seeming cut to hell as it jumps from one thing to another.
All that stuff, but I still agree with Gibbons in that movies can bring to life other aspects just fine and sometimes the brevity helps what's usually convoluted and drawn out (especially with the recent love of decompression and breathy, empty dialogue). Many things like TWS, CW, GotG, Ghost in the shell, some parts of Akira (you heard me) have convinced me a lot in an adaptation can be condensed to convey the core idea of the source material while losing little or nothing at all and even gaining something back in turn with the new portrayal.
Of course there's an equal or great amount of failures at this to counterbalance things but I don't think we should let failure alone dictate how we go forward. Just help us learn how to put one foot in front of the other.
Sauce: Flicks and the City (UK-based video interview outfit)
>>83391202
It honestly astounds me that so few people are getting this
>>83401877
WHAT IS INFINITE CRISIS
WHAT IS Lo3W
Johns does meta shit every now and then, he just doesn't make it the base of his books like Morrison does
>>83404895
No he wasn't. He just wrote a Flash arc and Harras and Lee turned it into a reboot, when they should have rebooted after FC if they really wanted to.
Barry and Wally are Johns' self inserts in Rebirth and Barry straight up says "Are you sure this isn't my fault" and Wally replies with "No, it was something else".
>>83394738
Rebirth
My only question is why Gibbons disappeared in obscurity
The guy's art is awesome
Don't care much for his opinion. He was gentle about it. "It was a flawed movie", nothing is perfect"
He also dodged more controversial questions, playing nice and safe.
Not everyone needs to be salty and cynical as Alan Moore.
>>83401997
Dude MOS Superman is nowhere near silver age. What are you smoking?
>>83401997
>they kept him at Silver Age strength (or maybe even higher actually, given that even in Returns Clark gets injured thanks to Kryptonite)
Returns was a homage to Donner movies, which was inspired by Silver Age. MoS doesn't have half the powers that Silver Age has nor his costume looks like it.
>>83395204
... so shouldn't DC Rebirth be up your alley since there's literally no tumblr heroes here
>>83400448
HAHAHA, THEY'RE DEAD. Well at least Arcade is back to being le quirky so randumd pathetic villain in Kate Leth's Hellcat book.
>>83390691
>Mouseketeers so desperate for negative press that they spin a neutral comment into one.
>>83391202
It's a teaser plot point for one of the big events they are going to do next to create some buzz.
People tend to give Cereal Knight more credit than he deserves.
I really don't give a shit what Dave Gibbons has to say, after he took the Watchmen film money.
>>83414017
Good thing he did not say shit about Watchmen, doofus
>>83401877
>>83401863
guess these plebs never read 52 or Johns JSA or Johns Flash... oh well
>>83410079
Didn't he draw The Kingsmen recently
>>83390691
Gibbons just doesn't understand capeKINOJust kidding, I think he's completely right
>>83390691
>Gibbons likes the MCU
Who would've known he's a pleb?
WB absolutely destroyed.
Who cares about the opinion of that hack?
Watchmen isn't as great as everyone says, It is basically a Ditko edgy fanfiction/AU with a really great pirate interlude.
>>83416087
It's better than liking the DCEU
>>83416185
>Gibbons is a hack
>Snyder isn't
Go to bed Zack
>>83400984
>Does any actor, director, writer, or anyone like that LIKE Batman v Superman?
Exclusively easily impressed idiots and contrarians.
>>83416718
I was talking about Gibbons crying about DC Rebirth. I never said that Snyder wasn't a hack.
I haven't read any recent comics, I'm actually going back and reading classics, Rebirth is bringing Dr M into the new 52?
>>83416870
Not right now, but it's laying the foundations so that they can bring him in whenthey need a sales boost.
>>83390691
>he thinks snyder understood watchmen
what a cock sucking idiot
>>83392357
YES
I bought each issue as it came out, still got 'em, Steve Rude is GOAT.
Met Gibbons at my first ever convention and I still have the Martha Washington sketch that he did for me framed on my wall.
>>83390691
>slams
>nothing but well spoken criticism of what he thinks they're doing wrong
i was expecting him to go full Moore tantrum
