http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/30/fandom-is-broken
>The old fan entitlement has been soldered onto the 'customer is always right' mindset that seems to motivate the people who make Yelp so shitty. I'm spending a dollar here, which makes me the lord and master of all, is the reasoning (I don't even want to speculate about whether or not modern fans spend their dollars on licensed, legal products - that's an essay for another weary day). It's what makes people act like assholes to servers, and somehow it's become the way ever-growing segments of fans are behaving towards creators. It's been interesting watching so many people bring up Joe Simon and Jack Kirby in the Captain America fracas; one of part of it is that their Jewishness allows angry, petulant fans to throw down a social justice bomb but it also speaks to how modern fans see many modern creators. They're nobody compared to the ones who invented this stuff. The modern creator is the server, and they should be going back into the kitchen and bringing back a Captain America cooked to their exact specifications, and without any sort of complications or surprises. This is what fans have always wanted, but the idea of being consumers - people who are offering money for services rendered - only reinforces the entitlement.
Thoughts?
Ur gay
>Devin Faraci
Literally the biggest idiot on the internet. And that's saying a lot.
>>83343959
Stop shilling your stupid "insights", Devin
Ah, yes. It's that fat faggot who types faster than he can think.
His opinions are worth less than shit.
It's mostly irrelevant because the people bitching about Captain Hydra are not consumers of that product. They are just moviefag normies.
Not to say that comic readers don't often bitch about NOT MUH as well, but it should have been an article about how the buzz was created by outsiders and the people inside the comics market still seem to have bought other books like Rebirth in larger numbers anyway.
>>83343959
Everyone knows this, the thing is there's literally no way of stopping it unless you shut down the entire Internet. Fandom has mutated into the monster it is because of online connections, there's no way to combat this in a world where the only voices that can be heard are the loudest and most insane. Complaining about it serves no purpose because there's no way for a "friendly" Internet fandom culture to exist, that's an actual impossibility because you're dealing with subcultures that thrive on misanthropes and shut-ins who are defined by their obsessions.
No, fans aren't "owed" anything. But you'll get them to understand that, so you're screaming at a brick wall and calling it insight.
>Devin Faraci
Why am I not surprised. No one hates their own reader base more then Faraci.
Also this is rich coming from a guy who's entire review of X-Men Apocalypse was REEEEEE NOT MY X-MEN REEEEE. It's always that pick-and-choose with him.
>>83343959
Overzealous fans are shitty, news at 11.
While I think there is a point to be made about not just pandering to fans, the captain America fiasco is more just retarded writing rather than any lack of fan pandering
I'm for one I'm glad that Marvel's Clickbait model of outrage has bit them on the ass with this one.
Really no one but the movie fans hated Hydra Cap
>>83344222
>It's mostly irrelevant because the people bitching about Captain Hydra are not consumers of that product. They are just moviefag normies.
He's talking about the larger cultural trends behind the actions, not this specific controversy. And it's very relevant, because there are more "moviefag normies" than comics buyers, and alienating that audience could have drastic effects on the livelihood of Marvel Comics. They might not buy comics, but what if they refuse to buy Civil War when it comes on home video? What if they don't see Dr. Strange (which has no shortage of criticism & controversy of its own already)? Actions have consequences that could span far further than sales of funnybooks.
That being said, I'm not sure he's on the mark with his thesis that it's rooted in fans being consumers. I think it's because they see themselves as co-creators. Fandoms do not merely passively consume media, they seek to transform it into new forms. And they feel offended when a decision is made that makes them question whether they want to be associated with this thing they view themselves as part of.
Did not take Spencer long.
I think the characters can change over time but some changes are to far removed from the character's origin such as Deadpool turning into the good guy when he has always mostly been in the grey area. Temporary big shifts aren't too bad but permanent changes that don't fit the character are unappealing like Peter Parker being a billionaire.
Somehow I knew this was Faraci even before I clicked on the link. It could only have been him.
Guys a mug, if a thing is bad it should be called bad.
>>83344523
who knew hydra cap would break the Internet
He's right btw
What are you talking about? Change for the sake of change is always good. Stop being nostalgiafags, you guys. NUT MUH CHILDHOODS.
S-shut up.
comic fans ≠ movie fans
>>83343959
I literally have no idea what this is about
>>83343959
I'm mostly having a chuckle at the idea that this is new, although social media and especially Twitter has made taking fannish pleas for specific plots and "don't do anything bad to my favorite character" straight to the author(s) easier than ever.
>>83344478
Part of it too is the idiotic idea that any fan who objects to something is speaking for "marginalized" groups.
So the worst social-justice critics, like Andrew Wheeler, are saying that comics creators must listen to the Jews who see anti-Semitism in the Cap twist. But
a) There's no evidence that they speak for the majority or even a small fraction of Jews
b) Their complaints are unfounded and objectively wrong.
But if you've dedicated yourself to the proposition that call-outs of racism are always to be respected, and "I'm not offended by this" is not to be respected, then you end up in a situation where a tiny minority of fans feel toxically entitled to have their pain respected, even if their pain is stupid and a real "ally" would tell them so.
It's a bit like the polls showing that 90% of American Indians aren't offended by the term "Washington Redskins." The idea that it was a terrible slur was coming from people (mainly white people) who took it on themselves to define the bounds of acceptable discourse, and pretended to be speaking for the whole group.
Similarly, you have fans and critics projecting their own feelings onto entire groups; instead of "this is bad and I will not buy it," they say "this is hurtful to an entire group," because it just sounds more authoritative.
He's right, but he's still a faggot
>>83344700
I have to say, while Faraci is annoying he is not anti-art and anti-creator in a way that the identity politics types are, so he often finds himself on the wrong side of them.
He probably thinks that because he pisses off the left and the right, that makes him a great moderate. It doesn't, but he's not a terrible person like the Comics Alliance types.
I'm generally new to comics, just wandering if there has ever been a character that has had a major change and it stuck?
Only one that springs to mind is Deadpool a bit, went from a 1 dimensional merc to anti-hero type.
>these fans are getting to uppity
>better make them ashamed for having opinions!
*yawn*
Especially at the price people pay for comics, of COURSE they're going to have a "customer is always right" mentality. That's your problem as the publisher, not the readers'.
The split between how creators are reacting and how fans are reacting is FASCINATING
>>83344780
Probably Magneto, from batshit crazy villain to noble anti-hero. People keep trying to turn him back into a bad guy and it's the revised version that keeps sticking as the "real" one.
>>83344780
Wally West becoming the Flash
>>83344780
Iron Man's alcoholism and lack of a secret identity both become pretty character-defining stuff
Apparently Tom Brevoort has been receiving death threats, so there's that.
>>83343959
Part of the problem with comparing it to Misery is that, while Wilks thought the character in Misery guys books were bigger than him, comic characters are bigger than their authors. Captain America has been around since before Spencer was born. He has a lineage and a history and is part of American culture.
>>83343959
While he makes a good point, it doesn't really apply to the Captain HYDRA fiasco because the people bitching about that AREN'T consumers. They're people that just saw Captain America: Civil War then saw on the news or their facebook wall or twitter feed or tumblr reblogs that "Cap is a nazi!" and started getting outraged. The vast majority of people angry about it didn't buy the comic in the first place.
>>83344789
Is it? It's just creators thinking it's just another story because they've been reading comics for years, and "fans" believing that Jimmy Olsen is actually marrying a gorilla forever
>>83344826
And Steranko might have made a death threatProbably joking but he's not happy about Hydra Cap
>>83344789
I think creators know that while they exist to please the public, the loud online fans are not representative of the public.
Pretty much every creator, particularly the ones who work at the Big Two, has seen stories get tremendous online outrage and hatred only to become good sellers. The reason is that the fans who complain online are not representative of "the fans" as a group. Yet they want to be respected as though their individual opinions are representative of the people who will buy the comics.
>>83344826
Normally I roll my eyes at death threats but that one was something special, don't blame him for taking it to the authorities.
>>83344865
Ironic considering he did a variant cover for the issue.
>>83344800
>>83344815
>>83344819
Thanks. Really love Magneto's motivation, probably the most convincing "villain"/anti-hero going. Perfect antithesis of Xavier.
>>83344885
I don't think variant cover artists have any idea what goes on in the actual book. They probably just get their instructions and deliver.
>>83344780
Not really. I mean, the only "changes" that stick are things that round out a character's background/personality.
Big twists and characters becoming/doing the complete opposite of what they're originally envisioned to be? It NEVER sticks.
>>83343959
No, pretty much everyone on the internet complaining about Cap being Hydra are shit-suckers who don't even read comic books
Those of us who read Marvel books regularly aren't going to be shocked by something like this because crazy divisive shit happens in their comics pretty regularly. Crazy, absurd shit can happen and the public won't even know about it.
But if you make Thor a woman, make Cap a bad guy, or something that seems like a big deal, then suddenly every motherfucker in the public setting has to voice their opinion even if they've never set foot in a comics store in their life
Half these people who lost their shit over "Hail Hydra" probably don't even know that Sam Wilson has been the current Captain America for some time now and Steve was a wrinkled grumpy old douche up until recently
So I'm gonna do what I always did, and just ignore the drama and keep reading comic books, which is what it's really all about.
>>83344789
I think the creators are very wary of anything that leads to "This storyline is off-limits because of an initial reaction", since they work in serial media and want to be able to use everything in the toolbox. And some creators are sympathetic to fandom and are willing to talk in terms of 'responsibility' but have bumped up against the crazy:
https://twitter.com/TiredFairy/status/737657501030572033
>I had people basically threaten suicide if things didn't go their specific way in a story. It can go really bad.
I think the big difference is people see this as an attempt just to sell comic's rather than an attempt to tell a meaningful story.
Where's that tyler the creator pic? I want to post that everytime some controversy pops up like this.
>>83344872
yeah, I'd shit my pants if I got something like that.
>>83344381
It hasn't though. They aren't losing any money on this, all it did was advertise their new Cap book.
>>83343959
That particular paragraph is fairly accurate. Recent years I wouldn't say have become particularly bad, but it's been this way a long time and I do believe it's getting worse. It's probably that at some time these middle-aged guys realize that the money they spend is propping up everything from the LCS to the publisher and feel like that entitles them to direct, as though buying a new car every year would entitle you to tell the manufacturer what the next years' model would look like in perpetuity. Your tastes filter, but don't control.
I would imagine a lot of it is also down to that same feeling of isolation - as comic book readers, you're in a minority - and the sense of entitlement over new entrants that gives you. Of course this is nonsense; comic books have always been changing, subtly if not openly.
>>83344222
>They are just moviefag normies.
If we took for example the peak hashtag trending on twitter for hydra cap last week we'd still be looking at maybe a few tens of thousands of individuals using the tag multiple times for a conversation - there's no way to say that they're the same few tens of thousands who buy Cap comics, but there's no way to say they're not, either.
Beyond that in the wider media any mention is good for the publisher provided that it's reaching people who are smart enough to understand Cap probably isn't going to be a lifelong hydra agent, because some of them may decide to read the comics for once and the rest will write it off as a publicity stunt. As long as Marvel aren't actually retarded enough to keep it running full-pelt with him in hydra for the next five years, it's fine.
In other words, don't give it to Bendis.
>>83344231
Fandom generally was always like this. It's harder to ignore now, but it was always like this. Fan is just a contraction of fanatic, after all.
>>83344944
Spencer's tweeting about how if you're mad there's another Captain America to support had me rolling
>>83344947
>some creators are sympathetic to fandom and are willing to talk in terms of 'responsibility' but have bumped up against the crazy:
yeah and mostly you can tell the difference between someone who wants Cap to be gay because they don't see themselves in media and want more representation and yadda yadda yadda vs people who just wanna their ship canon
>>83344872
>>83344991
Dude fucking put his name on it, terrifying.
>>83344991
What happened? I hadn't heard about this.
>>83345030
Here it is.
>>83345030
A former marine said that Cap defined his moral code and stopped him from being a "Monster", and now that Cap's Hydra that moral code no longer applies. So he's going to hunt down Brevoort and torture him to death.
The guy actually signed his name and everything, total psycho.
>>83345057
God damn
Why are people from the military completely batshit insane? Like every fucking time
>>83345057
It's a fucking comic book
Has the world literally gone insane?
>>83344944
>and Steve was a wrinkled grumpy old douche up until recently
For like less than a year.
It's a shitty gimmick to pull. And the writer's been a dick about it.
>>83345129
>Why are people from the military completely batshit insane?
Because nobody but nutcases, retards and failures joins the Clapistanian military.
>>83345144
>It's a fucking comic book
>Has the world literally gone insane?
This was posted when some anons started posting gore and porn on tumblr.
People have been making death threats to the president because of his skin color for years.
It hasn't 'gone' insane, it's always been this way.
>>83345030
>>83345057
>>83345108
>>83345129
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5-YDUtd7wg
Mundane Matt did some other research. Apparently this isn't the first time that Jason Elder has lashed out like this. Basically, it looks as if he DOES have mental/social issues, and this is more or less a cry for help.
>>83343959
>speaks to how modern fans see many modern creators. They're nobody compared to the ones who invented this stuff
To be fair Spencer and whoever the artist is really are nobodies in comparison
>>83345129
Why the hell do you think they WILLINGLY joined the military?
>>83344865
It's weird it's like he was semi-OK with it at first
https://twitter.com/iamsteranko/status/737103299351085056
https://twitter.com/iamsteranko/status/737103700938854400
Then he said he was reserving his judgement about it
https://twitter.com/iamsteranko/status/737109270823612416
Then he said he was mad about it
https://twitter.com/iamsteranko/status/737112774153797632
Then borderline "I hope they don't get in front of my crosshair" angry
https://twitter.com/iamsteranko/status/737118258617159680
Unless he's joking.
>>83345129
I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact their job was killing people?
let me guess all of the shit bird "creators" of the world are coming out of the woodwork to say people don't like them because the fans are bad, not because what they write is bad. please
>>83343959
>It's been interesting watching so many people bring up Joe Simon and Jack Kirby in the Captain America fracas; one of part of it is that their Jewishness allows angry, petulant fans to throw down a social justice bomb but it also speaks to how modern fans see many modern creators. They're nobody compared to the ones who invented this stuff. The modern creator is the server, and they should be going back into the kitchen and bringing back a Captain America cooked to their exact specifications, and without any sort of complications or surprises.
The man complains about people not willing to accept variations on Cap but constantly goes on NOT MUH SUPERMAN/BATMAN rants on the DC films. Oh Faracai, you scamp.
>>83345279
More often it's because there's no other reasonable way to get out of the situation they're in, be it an abusive or poverty-stricken home, a bad situation, or simply an atmosphere that doesn't allow for personal growth.
Join the military, you get away from the shit at home, get an education, become part of something greater than yourself.
Most soldiers never see war, even during wartime.
>>83345308
I would say it's both. Fandoms are cancer and writers indulge a toxic relationship with them.
>>83345308
People will complain regardless of what you write. Even great stuff receives backlash. There's instances of creators doing dickish stuff, but most fan backlash is unwarranted and coming from people who are just salty
It's very clear Hydra is about Nazism.
They aren't genocidal holocausters, but they uphold national fascism (which is what Nazism is all about).
>>83345309
>It's been interesting watching so many people bring up Joe Simon and Jack Kirby in the Captain America fracas; one of part of it is that their Jewishness allows angry, petulant fans to throw down a social justice bomb
this shit makes me furious. this isn't in the top 20 things Marvel has done to shit on Kirby
>>83345308
I saw Brandon Graham come out and say that Spencer seemed like he was just a poor writer. I know that he reads storytimes on /co/ even if he isn't posting with his name on
>>83345433
I'm really interested to see Spencer play with fascism inherent in capes
>>83345199
Fuck this is crazy if it's true
>>83344993
>thinking anyone gonna pick up Captain america because of this
It's not advertising Captain America faggot. It's just bad press.
>>83345474
you could just read marvel's civil war
>>83345471
it would be more shocking for him not to shit on big 2 stuff really
>>83345499
They will because Marvel readers are retarded. You must be the same kind of person who thinks Civil War II won't sell well just because it sucks.
>>83345471
>I saw Brandon Graham come out and say that Spencer seemed like he was just a poor writer. I know that he reads storytimes on /co/ even if he isn't posting with his name on
>>83345580
He'll talk shit about the companies all day, but he'll admit if a good comic comes out
>>83344145
Fuck off to writing comic books Devin Faraci
>>83345363
A fan/customer is never responsible for the quality of the product. The person that makes it is. If that person is influenced by the fan base or anything else that does not matter, it's still on them.
>>83343959
He's got a point, but knowning how much of an unbearable faggot Faraci is I wonder if he would hold the same opinion in regards to a similar situation that happened a couple of months ago when twitter blew up because a gay character from a TV show got killed, fans getting mad beause "omg you kill all the gays stop it"
>>83343959
Fandom is fundamentally broken on a deeper level because fandom is all about celebrating trash that offers wish fulfillment through characters and settings instead of caring about good stuff. That's what allows this idiotic "Everything must be awesome all the time! The good guys have to win! My favorite characters should fuck!" mentality that infests every fandom everywhere. When you're already providing cheap, tawdry, pandering entertainment that relies on sitty twists and controversy, there's really not a lot of room to talk about "entitlement" when the whole point is a fun little story about magic and monsters. If you're not providing that and your fans get upset, maybe you should write better stories and make better art. This isn't fucking Picasso or Proust, stop getting all high and mighty when you produce crap and people complain.
Also, maybe the fans should read better comics and also give less of a fuck.
>>83343959
When you make a product whose backbone is brand identification as a character trait like modern superhero comics that reuse and rehash the same characters and symbols over and over again, you really don't have a leg to stand on when that branded character's story arc isn't well received by fans.
They are telling stories and doing their best, I'm sure, but they are pouring all this effort into a product that sells guaranteed to work as advertised. Fan backlash over major changes rely solely on the same idea of switching sugar in Coca Cola to mildly alter the flavor.
They are artists but not making more than filler product to extend an ancient brand made almost a century ago.
This entitlement argument is a funny one. People who make it in response to consumer backlash want to be able to do whatever they like and tell the consumer to fuck themselves if they don't like it, but are upset when that behavior negatively affects their sales and the way their brand/work is perceived.
People running to the entitlement defense against backlash want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to use the controversy gamble to potentially boost sales for a short amount of time but are sore when that gamble doesn't pan out the way they wanted it too.
>>83345151
>For like less than a year.
He got de-aged in July 2014, almost two years ago. Still a short amount of time, but not "less than a year."
>>83343959
>Devin 'gamers are worse than ISIS' Faraci
>>83345433
>they uphold national fascism
>national
Of what fucking nation? HYDRA is an international terror orginization. Its heads are a German, a Jap, multiple Americans, a Brit, and a genetically engineered tentacle monster.
>>83346548
Whatever nation its members are in, and their neighbors.
The end goal is to have a global fascist reign.
>>83345057
Holy Christ these people are fucking mental incompetents. How many times has any long running comic book character been turned into this or that or been made to say, think, do any number of things that they never would have done previously? How many times have they been bounced around between stupid plot twists and contrivances to get attention? What the fuck is so special about this? It'll probably be revealed to be a big ruse in the next issue then retconned out of existence not too far down the line. These people are walking advertisements for drowning at birth.
>>83343959
>I'm spending a dollar here, which makes me the lord and master of all, is the reasoning
This is incorrect! The current reasoning has - NOTHING TO DO WITH SPENDING MONEY.
It is on the basis that having a vocal opinion on the Internet is somehow a power to gain all you desire. The problem is it is a complaint. Complaints at most receive a concillatory gesture.
So the people that demand change do not spend their money then the change happens too slowly for them so they complain some more. I have a feeling that market forces would have long solved the issues of diversity if people had spent their money along their ethical lines. The issue is they spend it like pic related. They get angry at things or like bad things and spend their money. While things of quality they don't support with their money.
The business will always be focussed on where the money is and the issue is you have who spend money on things they don't like and other people who don't spend money but demand things conform to them.
If you want a clear physical example of what I am describing then I would advise you visit any major convention. Masses of cosplayers not spending money, but who would want to when the venues become highly commercial focused on large corporations. Many of the people there do not support the artists creating the content they supposedly love.
>>83346548
yeah I keep asking for Red Skull showing a love of German Nationalism when people throw around the nazi thing
>>83345057
>Disabled veteran
Mentally, I take it.
>>83346735
see also the failure of DCYou
>>83346765
That had more to do with Convergence damaging the relationship between DC and retailers. They should have found a way to keep normal books running during their move, most of this shit is done digitally anyway.
>>83343959
I wish they made Cap an actual Nazi and it was permanent. The "A" could be for Auschwitz. Captain Auschwitz.
This is rich coming from the guy who tells people to kill themselves on twitter and brags he'll take care of his wife after
>>83345057
>congradulations
>>83346741
The thing that really gets me about this whole HYDRA = NAZIs thing, is that this whole misconception stems from the fact that HYDRA was a "nazi science and occult division" in the movie... but in the movie, they also made it pretty explicit that Red Skull was just using the nazis for his own ends. He straight up kills high-ranking nazi offers, tells them to fuck off, then proceeds to go through with a plan that had Berlin as one of the cities he was planning on nuking.
Red Skull uses any means necessary to gain power in order to rule the world. He just uses nazis to further his power-base, but it's not like he wants to go around murdering jews and minorities specifically. He wants to murder ANYONE that gets in his way.
I mean, make no mistake, Red Skull was definitely a straight up nazi during WWII, but there's more to him than just that.
>>83347783
people have no comprehension in general
>>83346838
Captain Austria might be more appropriate
>>83347040
I assume he'd be taking care of that guy's wife after he takes care of his own boxing injuries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg9Ju8hVnvE
>>83345898
>The good guys have to win!
If you want to see the bad guys win, you already have the real world for that.
>>83343959
>fuck the consumer, they'll buy what i make and like it!
Such a sense of entitlement from this generation.
>>83347783
Like one of his first lines in Captain America is insulting Hitler.
part of me is like "you're splitting hairs to defend basically nazis" and the other part is "Continuity and context matter!"
the best is people saying a 1965 creation is a nazi stand in from the 40s
>>83343959
>Brevoort getting death threats
>Devin Faraci backpedaling on this article the day after
o i am laffin
>>83343959
I would take him more seriously if he hadn't willingly engaged himself (along with others) in a zombie-like overreaction to a video of a guy saying he wasn't going to see a film.
>>83344826
When I was 15 I had a blog which got about 100 hits per month (and most of them came from google image search), and I still got a death threat for some lame joke I wrote.
You can run a knitting channel on youtube with 2 subscribers, odds are you'll eventually get a death threat.
>>83349599
Brevoorts is actually scary and legit. a long manifesto from a marine that dude signed his name too
>>83343959
I'm a baker, I don't often serve customers outright, but if I create something and one of my loyal, everyday customers comes to me or a server and says today your food doesn't taste good I get them another and apologize, not tell them I owe them nothing.
And Faraci saying "creators" owe nothing to avid fans disappointed in something they invest in, it pisses me off.
>>83344780
Good changes stick, changes that make sense and improve a character tend to stick. Like how GL power rings lose charge as they're used instead of after 24 hours or how Mr. Freeze was transformed into a tragic character.
Shock twists like these don't last and are not meant to last. Eventually it will be revealed that Cap is either being mentally manipulated (probably by the Red Skull), pretending to go undercover or a clone/duplicate/etc.
>>83349891
The issue is not fans investing in something, the issue is the internet lets "fans" attack something they don't support in the first place. This Cap being Hydra has massive traction and due to the low numbers of comic book sales 99% of those people are complaining about something that does not effect them.
It is nothing like your loyal customer. It would be like a guy coming in and saying why aren't you a taco shop and when you say you are a bakery why not buy something he then demands you make him a taco.
>>83343959
That cuck should fucking kill himself.
>>83349649
I can write a long manifesto pretending to be a marine and sign it with a random name too, mate. It's really not hard at all, you can even go into veteran's forum and dig up some old threads looking for real names to use.
>>83344523
>disney pays some cuck to make a clickbait article defending them
Disney needs to be razed to the ground
>>83350289
The article is about many differnet fandom things, like the petition to make Elsa canon Gay, the shitty ME3 ending Faraci was ass-pained about fan's hating years ago, Game of Thrones spoilers, ect.
/co/ just cares about the Cap bit.
>>83349891
>>83350289
It's more like a baker doesn't make a good cake at their bakery, then some twat suddenly attacks them for not being a taco shop and the baker stupidly makes the assumption that all complaints are like that twat and then proceeds to not listen to all complaints, making things worse.
>>83350475
>The article is about many differnet fandom things, like the petition to make Elsa canon Gay, the shitty ME3 ending Faraci was ass-pained about fan's hating years ago, Game of Thrones spoilers, ect.
>/co/ just cares about the Cap bit.
I was just making a general point.
The issue with "fandom discussions" is that almost three quarters of those doing the talking have never supported the thing they are talking about.
All this internet discussion is seemingly about the value of opinion but companies will never change based on the whim of the public only cold hard dollar. And the reason they won't change stuff is because people keep buying the crap they make.
>>83344819
I wouldn't call his lack of secret ID character defining. He'd had...40(?) years of stories with it, including the alcoholism and the stuff the first movie was based on.
>>83345057
For what purpose did Brevoort post the whole thing (I'm assuming he did)? Or any of it, for that matter.
>>83344780
Daredevil was changed so dramatically by Frank Miller that he's almost a different character now.
>>83345602
It will sell, but 'well' is relative. You could argue that dumb stories like the Clone Saga have damaged characters to the point that it's led to the number of readers dwindling. Marvel admit that they have to do event stories like CWII now to keep sales decent.
>>83353218
if there's ever a time to publicly shame someone a death thread is definitely it
>>83343959
>stop being so entitled!
>this is offensive, change it!
Pick one, Dev.
>>83350493
>attacks them for not being a taco shop
I don't get this part of the analogy. People are saying the Cap book should have 'Cap' in it, not that this story should be a novel instead.
>>83353602
Internet death threats are always bullshit. And if they're not, they're probably from the mentally ill. Brevoort is at best going 'Look, I'm being threatended! How terrible for ME!' when there's very likely no real threat, and at worst enjoying the fact that it adds to the controversy, which sells, according to Marvel/Brevoort.
>>83343959
>Devin "Mouse Shill" Faraci
not today, thaks
>>83355022
You mean Devin "I liked Fant4stic" Faraci?
>>83344826
he's a man so it's okay.
>>83343959
>>83344587
HE sounds sensible. But then I apply this argument to wrestling and like FUCK am I entitled for not wanting the server to come back from the kitchen with a microwaved turd like Roman Reigns.
>>83344442
What are you talking about? No one liked it, but the older fans are laughing at the newer fans for reacting the way they did.
>>83355080
Devin "DD was shit to/You're misogynist if you liked DD more than JJ." Faraci
You make a career out of baiting dogs don't be shocked when they start to bite.
stop writing bullshit then
>>83343959
This coming from the guy who told a fan to kill himself.
>>83358007
Okay, I'm gonna need proof of that one.
Devin Faraci might be a tool but this one is kind of on the money. This whole Cap-is-HYDRA fiasco stems from fan over-involvement and the use of identity as both a weapon and a vulnerability.
>>83358678
It stems from movie fans who think comics are icky
>Devin Faraci
hahahahah
Ahahahahah
HAHAHAHHAHAHA
>>83347040
Oh for fuck's sake...
I used to browse Badass Digest when he was a contributor to that site but I had to stop because he was becoming so insufferable. After him cheering on how white people were getting killed in Django Unchained, I can't say that I'm surprised that he would stoop this low.
>Marvel fans last week
We're for social justice! We have an arab! Culture!
>Marvel fans now
Is social justice really all that? It gets in the way of interesting stories and you """""""""""""consumers"""""""""""""" are destroying art.
The problem isn't with Captain becoming a Nazi. He's become boring.
The big twist is that Captain America is shit under the hands of Tom Brevoort and his spineless underlings. The problem being I already saw that coming.
Wow, can you imagine if Batman worked undercover to stop the League of Assassins or any other crime syndicate? He literally does this every few months as Matches Malone. Like c'mon.
>>83344947
All the more reason to kill floppies and move to trades.
>>83344789
Hey Max
This is rich coming from the guy who called someone a limp dicked loser and a sexist man-baby for not wanting to watch and review a movie that looked bad
>>83356992
Was that seriously his opinion
DD was objectively better
>>83364647
This is an extension of that same argument
>>83364745
Does he not realize that most people mad about the Cap Hydra thing were movie fans, people who would never read a comic? Does he not realize the rage was increased significantly because it happened the DAY after those same people wanted Cap to be gay?
Devin's a close minded dense retard and I hate him
>>83345453
None of these people care about Kirby.
His name is a suffix of Lee's to them.
>>83364647
The reaction to that video doesn't invalidate the fact that the video was fucking retarded. Just make a fucking Twitter post, turning into a dog-and-pony show about how you're not going to see the movie and that matters so much you need to make an entire video about it is moronic.
Everyone was stupid in that situation.
>>83365208
He made the video to explain his reasoning you retard. You can't do that shit in 140 characters, he used the video to address people asking him if he was going to watch and review the movie, and explain why he doesn't want to see it and his issues with it.
It was also a segway to another video he did detailing the muddied history of Ghostubsters 3
You're almost as retarded as Devin anon
>>83365208
>Vash being retarded
And the world keeps on turning
They made a business built entirely on maintaining a strict status quo and repackaging familiar content for decades.
They did everything they could to push away people who were not okay with this model.
At this point, screaming about entitlement when your fans don't like status quo shifts is like taking a shit in your own mouth and then complaining that your breath smells like shit.
>>83356949
I kind of wonder how modern fans would react to superdickery, this is kind of in the same vein as this
>>83343959
>Faraci
>all that PR for Captain Hydra
>let's see what he says about DC
>he liked Rebirth
son of a bitch
>>83365674
And again, his entire review for Apocalypse was whining about NOT MUH X-MEN
>http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/27/x-men-apocalypse-review-a-fiasco-that-dares-taint-oscar-isaac
