WTF is this? Can someone catch me up on what happened to the comic book universe? I stopped reading around the time the beat Robotnik and broke him. It was a really good arc with a lot of dark and relocatable moments. So what the hell happened?
It became even kiddier.
>>83341466
but we already had that. its the called the start of the series. The comics were so great because they aged with the reader. Plus it was pretty damn epic. So now they shit all over it?
>>83341432
Former "writer" Ken Penders threw a hissy-fit over Archie using "his" characters, copyrighted them, and sued Archie. Due to his work-for-hire contract being somehow lost, and Archie's legal team shitting the bed, Sega forced them to settle. Now Penders plans (read: pie-in-the-sky dreams) on doing his own comic with those characters, and Archie was forced to reboot the Sonic comic to get rid of them (while they still had several plans for them).
>>83341432
They fixed it
>>83341485
Yes.
They don't care about older readers, they only value younger ones. You can argue that it sucks. You can argue that that's the way it should be. Either way, that's how Sega and Archie feel about it. It's a franchise-wide problem, not strictly a comic-centric one.
>>83341489
This. Apparently his original contract was destroyed in a flood, and a copy wasn't admissible in court.
As a result, Penders has all the characters he created, though all of their backstories are not invalid, as Sega would be more than happy to sue his pants off if he dared market his comic as taking place in the Mobian universe.
>>83341489
but hold the phone, most of the characters came from SatAM not the comics. How could he could have any right to them? so is the new shit worth reading? i know comics always do this crap but come on.
>>83341485
The problem is that the older "kiddie" issues are still easily appreciated as an adult. The gags and puns are fucking top-tier. What it has become now is kind of hard to appreciate as an adult, especially since the reboot. There's just a lot of cringeworthy inside jokes and game references. Mega Man was a million times better at pulling the whole "all-ages comic with adult undertones" thing.
I feel like I've been waiting for years for them to finish this fucking awful Sonic Unleashed adaptation.
>>83341600
I mean, yes, the core cast were. Pretty much every supporting character was a Penderling.
The book's better now than it was pre-reboot tho
>>83341549
so thats why they did the whole universe reset thing right? but the characters retained their memories? They did kinda set it up with that future side arc they did i guess.
>>83341432
That was a throw away non canon comic
>>83341600
>most of the characters came from SatAM not the comics. How could he could have any right to them?
You don't realize how many characters Penders made up. He populated a world with them. Some were great, some not so much.
>>83341633
>The book's better now than it was pre-reboot tho
Meh. I liked it best when it was Ian Flynn playing with Penders' leftover characters. Since the reboot, it seems a little too much like trying to force terrible video game adaptations into a sensible story, and it's been going on for years.
>>83341636
>but the characters retained their memories?
For the duration of the first arc, yes. Then they forgot.
>>83341625
Agreed. The Mike Gallagher stories were light-hearted but they could be genuinely funny. I don't find the more recent stuff funny at all. It's just kiddy.
>>83341664
The metaplot's dragging, yeah, but we've had some great arcs. Compare to shortly pre-reboot, which dragged out AND was mostly shit.
>>83341432
Explain exactly what you're talking about because the comics are still good.
It hurts loving Scourge's jailbreak but with no payoff from him. Scourge is never going to get his vengeance. I really was interested in what he had planned when it came to Mammoth Mogul, Moebius and Mobius.
>>83341664
yeah true he did add a lot. but i feel like Sega should have just told him to fuck off. And see thats part of my problem. the comic didn't just adapt they stories from the game, they made them make sense. They did Adventure in the same universe and explained the whole thing in a coherent way.
>>83341670
the hell?? why? thats the only reason i had any interest. it just invalidates the whole thing.
>>83341664
Terrible video game adaptations of terrible video games are terrible.
>>83341600
Only some of the characters (e.g. Sally, Uncle Chuck, Naugus) were from SatAM. Many of them (e.g. most of the echidnas, Sonic's parents, Mina Mongoose) were first written by Penders. Still others (e.g. Zonic the Zone Cop) were by other writers whom Archie doesn't want to pull a Penders on them, and so they had to go too.
Archie was able to keep characters from the games, from the AoStH and SatAM cartoons, and (assuming they were not derived from another writer's works or in violation of the current Sega mandate that game characters can't have relatives) current writer Ian Flynn's characters.
>>83341716
Fuck we lost Mina too?
>>83341733
Yep. And she's now in the clutches of the most hack writer ever.
>>83341693
well they had a more adult theme going on for many years during its run. now its totally different.
>>83341693
Thats right they never did anything with him. thats a real waste. in fact a lot of its a waste
>>83341716
this just all sounds like garbage. and a lot of it sounds like Sega should have put their foot down. Is it even worth reading now? I was really hoping the movie could derive itself from the comics too.
>>83341747
I'll bet he uses the characters for a furry porn, just to piss off Sega. Why is he a bad writer, by the way, I got into the comics late(when Geoffrey betrayed Sonic in the special zone)
>>83341747
Penders doesn't have Mina, Karl Bollers does.
>>83341686
>Gallagher
When will this meme end? Most of the good early stories were penned by Angelo DeCesare. Gallagher wrote a few good strips, but was far less consistent.
>>83341824
what the hell would he even do with them? nobody is gonna give a shit without Sonic. And they were only good because they existed in that universe. It sounds like he really shot himself in the balls
>>83341690
>but we've had some great arcs
The only one I remember enjoying was the Fighters arc. That did a wonderful job of blending pre-existing parts of Sonic's history together. All the character cameos were great. Besides that, they've ranged from forgettable to downright bad, in my opinion.
>Compare to shortly pre-reboot, which dragged out AND was mostly shit.
See, I disagree. Shortly pre-reboot only dragged because of the legal issues, but I think what Flynn was doing, trying to clean up the mess of Penders' characters was actually really compelling. Ixis Naugus in charge of Mobotropolis, and Rotor and Uncle Chuck on his council was pretty neat.
>>83341879
>meme
Fuck off. DeCesare did some good stories, too. But I mostly enjoyed the Gallagher ones. They were silly as fuck. That's what made them great.
>>83341879
>When will this meme end?
When will THIS meme end?
>>83341813
If you're the kind of person who places canon and character history before storytelling, it's not worth your time.
If you like adventure books for general audiences, it's pretty good. There's been a few stumbling points, but there have been more solid, fun stories than weak ones.
>>83341902
so howd the whole Robotnik being mentally broken arc play out? I stopped reading around the time of the new villain.
>>83341925
see i appreciate storytelling. but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to see the stuff ive been reading for years get the shaft. i'll probably pick it up with i have time and money, but it just sucks to lose a lot of what i considered to be an excellent universe. is it the longest running licensed comic yet?
>>83341914
Never.
>>83341910
I'm not discrediting him. Issue 40 is one of my favorites.
I'm saying most people don't even notice that they're two separate writers, or that Gallagher contributed fewer stories.
>>83341813
Sega probably would have crushed Penders' claim in court, but they were too busy merging with Atlus at the time.
>>83341824
>I'll bet he uses the characters for a furry porn, just to piss off Sega.
Using them at all would piss off Sega, but Penders thinks he's unstoppable because he "won" against a big comics company. The fucker's got an ego the size of the sun.
>Why is he a bad writer, by the way, I got into the comics late
Among other crap stories, he's also the same idiot who thought that "Sonic Live" (a self-insert story starring his own son and niece, that also downplays the importance of the actual game creators in favor of a bunch of American OCs) was a good idea, prides himself on never ever acknowledging anyone else's work with the Sonic franchise (including the actual fucking games), and credits himself with the franchise's popularity.
>>83341859
Whoops. My mistake. Then at least Penders doesn't have that.
>>83341930
He broke out once by gibbering the voice-code to open his cell, then eventually ended up reasoning himself out of madness. He discovered that the reason he always loses to Sonic is that the blue hedgehog is some kind of embodiment of Chaos itself, and sought to take that away by rewriting reality (and re-enacting the plots of the first 2 games in a more game-like reality). Sonic ended up fixing that, but he later pulled off the same trick later with help from Dr. Wily (yes, Sonic crossed over with Mega Man). When Sonic and Mega Man were about to fix it, Eggman threw a hissy-fit that he was going to lose (saying that if he couldn't have the universe his way, nobody would get to have it at all) and rammed Sonic while he was trying to fix the universe. This resulted in the universe being put back together wrong (conveniently getting rid of all the characters and concepts that Archie could no longer legally use), as well as breaking apart Sonic's world (which is now what it has to be called rather than "Mobius" or "Earth").
>>83342024
sigh. well at least its epic. i hope penders gets fucked over though. thats such a dick move.
>>83341930
He thrashed around a bit before reconciling that his past/backstory/identity doesn't really matter (relevant) and retaking control. The arc itself was too long for its own good and had some mediocre issues.
Immediately following this was a string of multiple VERY strong two-parters, and then a new story arc started where Geoffrey St Skunkguy was a traitor working for Naugus, who claimed kingship of the city. Eggman launched the Death Egg, there was a shitty four part arc recapping Sonic 1 & 2 to tie in to the 20th anniversary, and Sally became a robot...and then the book immediately went to shit because of legal kerfuffles.
Honestly, if you want to get back on, you should read up to 225, skip to 230, and then read the Sonic/Mega Man crossover. Trust me, you won't be missing anything.
>>83341910
>But I mostly enjoyed the Gallagher ones. They were silly as fuck. That's what made them great.
The best thing about Gallagher is that towards the end of his era, he really started to improve writing action and drama as well. I often forget that he was behind Mecha Madness, which to date is still my favorite arc. It was the first time that the book felt like something was actually at stake, and there were some great jokes peppered throughout. Art by Spaz just seals the deal.
>>83342093
ok thanks. when i have money ill get into it again. ill buy the comics just to complete the collection tho. and they never did anything with robotniks niece did they? perhaps they can build up the new universe
>>83342145
If said niece was by Penders, she's off limits.
>>83342163
probably. damn asshole
>>83342145
>>83342163
If you're talking about Hope Kintobor (Snively's niece), she was by Bollers and is therefore off-limits anyway.
>>83342189
Wait, I looked it up. She's Snively's half-brother and Robotnik's niece. Never mind about the parentheses.
>>83341910
I read the early books as a kid, but it was mostly for the game reference. Once Mecha Madness happened it got good.
The thing is, the switch from a comedy comic to an adventure comic was because of Penders. For as much as we hate him, he was absolutely spot on with that idea.
ya know since they are trying to do a live action movie the comics would have been great to adapt. but with all this legal crap they probably cant. i dont want to see a different story with ANOTHER sonic universe. does sonic even have one singular universe with all his games??
>>83342222
i totally respect what he did. but then turning and ruining the stuff he created sickens me, thats not why you write. thats not why you create art. its obvious he doesnt care about the fans
>>83341824
>Why is he a bad writer
He fits into all the hack writer pitfalls.
*Characters are defined by plot utility rather than personality and agency.
*Characters do not have markedly different voice or personalities, just funny accents to cover their lack of personality.
*All stories are in service to cliffhangers, "revelations" and mysteries. Because of this, very little meaningful action occurs.
*Telling instead of showing. Especially talking about characters being important instead of letting their actions define their importance.
*Recycling stick plots.
*Reliance on poor, overused contrivances like the hero's destiny, bloodline feuds, political jargon, technobabble, alternate universes, mistaken identities, amnesia, etc.
*Horrible pacing.
*Creator's pet characters.
*Prioritizing "lore" over entertaining stories.
*CONSTANT RETCONS.
*Ignoring other writers, which leads to gaping plotholes.
*Reluctance to experiment or use unfamiliar characters.
He's a dick to boot.
>>83342223
Most of the games (with the exception of Spinball, Mean Bean Machine, and Chronicles) share the same universe. Spinball is in the SatAM universe, Mean Bean Machine is in the AoStH universe, and Chronicles is now completely non-canon because Penders is a litigious asshole.
>>83342163
Maria was a game character, though. I think she's still fair play.
>>83342103
I'll never get why people praise the Spaz parts of Mecha Madness but ignore the Manak part of the story. And the Uncle Chuck saga gets ignored despite having the same number of stories and an even stronger finale.
>>83342261
you can basically just sum it up with him being a total dick. he did do some stuff that was cool but fuck him
>>83342266
but waht about sonic 06? generations? colors? adventures?
>>83342275
well actually differnt girl but easy mistake
>>83342299
06 retconned itself, but is still canon as far as Generations is concerned. Colors and the Adventure games exist in the same universe.
>>83342324
makes me wonder how this movie is gonna work
>>83342222
It was actually in response to SatAM. Ken's early stories were just as goofy as the rest, but when season 2 started up ALL of the comic's writers started to establish story continuity, draft up character-focus stories, and make their own arcs. It seems like more of an editorial decision.
>>83342345
Given the track record of game-to-movie adaptations, the Sonic movie is probably not going to work at all.
>>83342346
i also enjoy how they managed to work in a lot of previous comedy arcs
>>83342299
>he did do some stuff that was cool
He did?
All I can think of is Voodoo Knuckles, but he really dropped the ball on that anyway.
>>83342374
well thats why it should base itself on the comics. if they can.
>>83342295
>ignore the Manak part of the story
Just because I didn't mention it doesn't mean I ignored it. It's just not really the main event, but it is an important part of the narrative.
The Uncle Chuck saga? What was that, exactly? It's been decades since I've browsed the older parts of my collection.
>>83342381
i dont rmember the stuff off the top of my head but i remember liking it
>>83342406
Well, if they're going to base it off of the comics, they'll have to do it based off of the new comics (which pretty much just pasted most of the games into its canon; the only real difference is that Colors and Generations happened before Unleashed, because the interrupted Super Genesis Wave that warped reality also broke apart Sonic's world and unleashed Dark Gaia). So we're right back at square one.
>>83342515
yeah. tho its possible they could get away with at least adapting the issue 50 arc.
>>83342464
Well when you say "the Spaz art made it", it's implying those two issues are the stronger ones and passes over just how strong (and much more expressive) Manak's pencils were.
On the other end, DeCesare whipped up a three part Uncle Chuck arc that's a lot like Mecha Madness in a way, but it was split across a number of issues. Started in 30 with "The Return of Uncle Chuck", ends with 37's "The Day Robotropolis Fell". It's a strong trilogy of stories that never gets any recognition.
>>83342540
You mean "Endgame"? Hell no they couldn't get away with doing that! As far as stories go, that's Penders' baby.
>>83342540
>Adaptation of a shitty, plothole filled arc that itself is a pseudo-adaptation of the shitty SatAM finale.
I'd rather they didn't.
My favorite issue is the one where Sonic is macking with several different ladies at once.
>>83342584
true but does he own the rights to the story itself? could he fight sony and sega in court over the arc?
>>83342607
theyd have to take liberties but its probably the strongest starting point they could do with a movie that sets up a film universe
>>83342633
Please don't post the daterape issue.
I really enjoy Bunnie and Antoine relantionship since they bring the best of each other. I really wanted to see Bunnie against Conquering storm, shame it won't happen anytime soon.
>>83342638
>The strongest starting point is a self-serious "finale" that entirely hinges on previous investment.
???
Why not just start with the basics?
>>83342649
bow chicka bowwow
>>83342638
Due to the settlement, he owns all characters and concepts he created for the comic. So, yeah, if it's recognizably "Endgame", then he pretty much does own the story.
>>83342561
>it's implying those two issues are the stronger ones
Um, they are. It has little to do with the art, though, they would have been stronger even if Manak had pencilled all of them, but quite honestly, two issues that involve Sonic getting kidnapped, roboticized, devastating Knothole, kicking the shit out of Bunnie, Knuckles willingly being roboticized to fight back, then Robotropolis getting the fuck nuked out of it is going to be stronger than just about anything.
Don't get me wrong, I love issue 40, it's the perfect end note for the arc, but there's not much to it. It's dessert, while the previous two issues are the main course.
>>83342670
Conquering Storm is still around, so it's just as likely as it ever was.
>>83342649
But it was so neat
>>83342695
well if they want this pg-13 rating and all and they want to set up a universe for the films they could adapt it well if its done right. it wouldnt be of course but i can dream. think about it, u set up the world and just how dangerous robotnik is, who the characters are ect.
>>83342702
true but i dont know how well it would hold up or if he would be willing to fight over it agains tthe two companies. especially since the main characters arent his
>>83342723
I know she is around, but Flynn hates Bunnie and Antoine. I still can´t believe he wanted to kill Antoine off and having Bunnie betraying the Freddom fighters for revenge
How did this make you feel?
>>83341633
>Better now than it was pre-reboot
Just because we lost some lame characters in the reboot doesn't make it better. The re-boot, all around, fucking sucks. In like 30 issues nothing has happened, and losing those unimaginative Penders characters gave way to even gayer ones
>>83342759
>true but i dont know how well it would hold up or if he would be willing to fight over it agains tthe two companies. especially since the main characters arent his
Considering it's Penders we're talking about, he'd be willing to fight Sega and Sony over it for even the dumbest possible reason. He thinks he's fucking invincible in court.
>>83342801
god i hate that art style. it ruined the drama for me. and it was insulting how amazing the art was for the future arc that was in the back of the issues
>>83342803
Nigga shows up like twice
He's not even bad.
>>83342804
yeah but does he have the cash? if he was smart, and he isnt, he would want to be working with them, not being a dick over crap that should never have been his in the first place.
>>83342833
I don't specifically mean Mutsky, but when he appeared is when I knew this reboot would be painful for me
>>83342710
I mean, if you're talking about your hype I guess you could say that. The writing's a slight step up from Super Sonic vs Hyper Knuckles, which was...okay.
It's more spectacle than anything, really.
>>83342860
How?
Most of the new characters we got have been great, especially Eggman's goons.
>>83342803
This is autism.
>>83342853
He married into money. It's how he's staying afloat despite working on fucking nothing but his so-called "magnum opus" The Lara-Su Chronicles (which was announced years ago and still only has two or three pages done, all of which are total crap).
>>83342868
i vaguely remember ss vs hk. howd they even set that up?
>>83342784
What the hell are you on about?
He doesn't hate either of them.
>>83342945
well he can go fist himself with a bottle of ketchup. i still want them to fight him. dumb bastard cant get work with a record like his
>>83342902
>>83342928
Characters aside, are you guys seriously happy with the Unleashed arc? Beyond being fucking terrible, it is way too drawn out.
>>83343011
why would they even do an arc on that game?
>>83342982
>dumb bastard cant get work with a record like his
He doesn't fucking care about that. He's completely deluded himself into thinking he's the best writer ever, and anyone who says otherwise is just a "hater".
>>83343011
I refuse to read it. I'll wait until it's over then I'll start buying all the new ones(and old ones on the app).
>>83343011
It's been really boring I'll admit that, but I didn't like Unleashed or its story to begin with.
But the new characters we've been getting have been really fun. At least in my opinion.
>>83343027
well we will see how ewell that works out for his "career"
>>83343026
Because it's an excuse to go globe-trotting (and thus building up this brave new post-retcon world).
>>83343069
Believe me, I want to see him crash and burn too. But at this point, absolutely nothing can snap him out of his idiocy.
>>83343111
doesnt mean he cant at least die out. but thats partly why i want to see the movie adapt end game. i mean fuck him. let him try to fight for an arc that shouldnt be his. and ok that kinda makes sense
>>83343158
True, but if suing Sega and EA over Sonic Chronicles didn't fucking stop him in his tracks, nothing will except the icy finger of death.
>>83342955
Sonic and Knuckles just happened to find a random extra-dimensional zone that was full of rings and chaos emeralds and they started fighting over them. I'm pretty sure that's all there was to it.
>>83343383
yeah forgot about taht one. this is sony we're talking about tho, and its a rather unprecidented case.
>>83343405
sounds like an epic story filled with emotion and understanding.
remember when they killed tommy the turtle, and then brought him back. and then killed him. good times
Worst thing about the reboot?
Charmy being retconned to a 6 year old instead of being a canon brain damaged young adult
>>83343158
If it were up to me, I'd use the OVA as a starting point for the movie.
Goofy but intelligent/maniacal Eggman/Robotnik? Dynamic relationship between Sonic and Tails? Beautiful, fantastic, yet somewhat lonely landscapes, with nothing to tie the characters in one forest/base? Side-characters who are waifuable and don't pull the focus away from the game characters and action? No need for buildup or knowledge of an extended universe to get into? Cheesy 90s synth music? That's the ticket.
It's not flawless, but I'm a fan of an approach that's basic and close to the games. Seeing Endgame might not be bad, but it wouldn't exactly hit my own vision of Sonic.
Then again, we all have our own visions of how Sonic "should" be, so my opinion ain't worth much.
>>83343011
I hate it. I can't believe it's still going. I would have dropped this book if I hadn't been reading it since issue 1.
>>83343454
It had some great meta-gags. The book was well aware that it was just a dumb event and certainly didn't take itself seriously.
>"What do the odds-makers say, Tails?"
>"Four-to-one they're in a fight by page seven."
>>83343519
oh shit i forgot all about that, that sucks. no balls
>>83343541
kinda disappointing honestly.
>>83343535
which ova? also amazing pic
>>83343608
>Which OVA?
If you want to watch a semi-serious Sonic movie animated in Japan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peSvL2lixLo
If you want to laugh at the awkward English dubbing of said movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bIawOdFNu4
Best case scenario for the series? It gets canned, and pic related sells so well that it gets picked up as a new ongoing.
>>83343541
I read it from issue 0 up until about issue 200-something. I dropped it years ago. No regrets.
>>83343692
right right i have that. eh idk if it would work best for a feature length film but maybe
>>83341902
Eh, maybe. Honestly, I'm mostly thinking of the Universe stories, which are far superior.
>>83343011
Half good, half eh.
The fact that people think of it as a story arc instead of a status quo is pretty funny, and you get people like
>>83343056
>>83341432
That particular issue isn't even canon to the reboot, although I kind of wish it was. Sonic hasn't been about being dark or relocatable for a long time.
>>83343858
i guess the most important thing is if its still readable and enjoyable
>>83343692
>If you want to laugh at the awkward English dubbing of said movie:
I actually thought it was a pretty solid dub. Voices were silly, but in a good way. Nobody ever sounded like they were trying to be too cool or overly dramatic, like most dubs that take themselves so seriously.
>>83343707
I wish I could, but at this point, I'm just riding it out until the end. There were some great moments of hope where I thought, perhaps, the series could attain greatness, but all that has gone to shit since the reboot. I mean, maybe it could still get better, who knows?
I buy so many other comics now, the extra few bucks a month to pick it up isn't a problem, and it's the series that got me into comics as a kid. I guess I'll always carry a torch for it.
>>83343790
>The fact that people think of it as a story arc instead of a status quo is pretty funny
The plot of a single, shitty game becoming "status quo" is pathetic. It's only status quo because it has dragged on for so damn long.
>>83341705
>the comic didn't just adapt they stories from the game, they made them make sense. They did Adventure in the same universe and explained the whole thing in a coherent way.
What? The Sonic Adventure arc is a huge incoherent mess. It's a giant embarrassment that caused problems for years.
>>83343887
Yeah, what a pathetic status quo, unlike "Robotnik is the badguy and we're fighting him."
It barely even follows the game, it's just using surface level elements as a driving force.
On the plus side, the plot's finally getting close to the end of the Unleashed story, so hopefully once it's over we'll get some less boring goddamn plotlines.
>>83343892
i never thought that, it was a bit odd but made sense to me.
>>83343887
id say the comics did achieve greatness at one point
>>83342024
>prides himself on never ever acknowledging anyone else's work with the Sonic franchise (including the actual fucking games)
As shitty as this is, honestly it's not as bad as his refusing to ever acknowledge the other fucking writers on the book even while he was working with them. Half of Karl Bollers' stories were just fixing Penders' messes while Penders would bomb Bollers' ideas straight to hell just by not paying attention to what was happening.
>>83343932
That's part of what I was talking about. I just ran out of space to say more.
>>83342275
Maria's Robotnik's cousin, not his niece.
Is there any way to purchase the original 30 or so issues in TPBs in a standard size format without computer re-colorization and in color?
>There are people here confusing a background threat for the main storyline and judging issues by how they handle it instead of the individual story quality.
We're nearly reaching Spider-Man Thread levels of retarded. There's nothing wrong with disliking a story, but god damn.
>>83342784
>Flynn hates Bunnie and Antoine.
What would make you ever think that?
>>83342803
Muttski is easily the worst of the new cast, and even he's really just inoffensively bland.
>>83342970
He does, he mentioned multiple times that he hates Antoine personality and his role on the team, that´s why he wanted to kill Antoine off after Mecha sonic exploded.
As for Bunnie, Flynn wrote at Bumbleking that he hates Bunnie being so strong and that´s why she gets beaten first in every fight and got desroboticized.
As much as I hate Penders, the lawsuits and the reboot, at least the reboot and the fans reactions retcooned both fates for these two characters
>>83343918
There were a lot more stories and villains pre-reboot. And robotnik used to actually be pretty menacing. Literally since the reboot, we've gotten one villain, Robotnik, and one story, Unleashed.
So please anon, read the comics before shit posting
>>83343011
I attribute that to a lot of dumb editing choices that kind of fucked up any potential it had to work.
Flynn hates anything that's not in the games. He tries to deny it but it's been obvious since the beginning. He's the worst kind of Sonic fanboy.
>>83343519
No fuck that, brain damaged Charmy was fucking awful. Even the author admitted that was a mistake, and that was before the reboot. All it did was turn him from a milquetoast prince into a weird tragic quantum state of being a comic relief you weren't allowed to laugh at.
>>83342261
I actually decided to go back and read JUST the Penders part of Archie Sonic(as in, only stuff he was personally responsible for writing, not stuff others did with his characters), just to see what parts of what I liked about the comics was actually his doing.
... and at the end of it all, I was left with only one character I even remotely cared for. Everyone else was either unlikable, badly written, was nothing more than a plot device.
It's pretty telling that the Penders character I ended up liking second best is fucking Hamlin. Hamlin wasn't a good character under Penders by any means.
>>83344061
well thats mainly due to being mishandled
Recommended starting/finishing point?
>>83343608
>>83343692
tell me about endgame dude what is it?
also, at least Dulcy is kawaii now
>>83343922
Man the original Unleashed's story is the least of its problems. Honestly, it had all the elements the comic needed to make something good. But they fucked around too long collecting the Chaos Emeralds for years (something the game never even bothered with), and now that they finally ARE adapting the game they only get a handful of issues with ten-page stories to do it in. This should have been an easy pitch but they botched it.
>>83344106
0 until they beat Robotnik and he loses his mind.
>>83344061
>you weren't aloud to laugh at
Maybe you weren't. New 6 year old Charmies only real quality is "Jeoprodize the mission for fucking ice cream or some shit" He's no longer relevant or funny, he's just garbage
>>83344030
That is the worst attempt at lying I've seen in some time. Ten year olds are better at falsehoods than this.
Wait people actually think brain damaged Charly was a good thing?
>>83344143
Adult Charmy was the exact same thing but worse. Both are childish, easily distracted and somewhat annoying. But Adult Charmy, when he did that, the characters weren't allowed to get mad or tell him to quiet down, and you couldn't find him being a little shit funny, because you're talking to a badly mentally handicapped trauma victim. It was the WORST possible way to give Charmy a personality, as all it did was pigeonhole him into the game role while making him unable to fill that role.
>>83344126
end game is basically a finale for the first 50 books of the series. its when the series really starts to take the darker route. its also spoiler when they kill off the original robotnik
>>83344052
Flynn loves the non-games stuff more than he really should have. There was a lot of stuff he brought back that was mildly amusing, but in the end not really worth it.
>>83344151
And yet Flynn wrote these scenes
>>83343011
I'm happy with all the minor arcs within it. It helps to see the Unleashed plot as more of a backdrop.
But yeah, the actual Unleashed arc is pretty bad. It's the lesser arcs within it that are good.
>>83344173
>>83344192
well its not the best route for him but it could have been handled well. he can be a tragic character in situations where it would otherwise be funny, u can build a lot of drama and stuff from the characters. the problem is he is never used correctly.
>>83344106
GENERAL RECOMMENDATIONS.
1-50 or whenever you want to stop.
Then you can start at 160 (where the current writer takes over), 171 (where he starts kicking things into a higher gear), or if you don't want to read 1-50 and all that junk, just scrap everything I said and start with Worlds Collide, a Mega Man/Sonic crossover that started the new continuity.
>>83344221
He doesn't do it because he likes it. He does it to pander to older fans. I don't think he does it often anymore as most of the older fans have all left anyway. But for a while he was putting some half-hearted effort into keeping the fans happy.
>>83344192
Go back and read again anon. Retarded Charmy was a lot less, well, retarded than Nu-Charmy
>>83344265
He was just as dumb, he simply got less screen time (because, again, even the author knew pretty much immediately that he'd made a big mistake). Hell, the last Sonic Universe arc before the reboot with the Chaotix essentially sweeps the brain damage under the rug and tries to pretend he acted like that all the time.
>>83344302
I'll agree to disagree. I very much enjoyed Canon Brain damaged Prince of a Genocided people
>>83341432
That issue and the Sonic Universe issue that came out that month (the All Stars Racing Transformed issue) were Sega mandated advertisements. Usually they just do them in the back of the book, but Sega insisted these be the A-story, so they ended up interrupting the plot for a month with non-canon stories.
And then the Pendering began about two issues later.
>>83344370
god damn it sega. u fucked up Sally's death and then u do that
>>83344368
i agree but they never utilized it
>>83341432
wait isn't sonic a jap
>>83344405
The only connection Sega ever had to Sally dying was saying that Penders couldn't do it once, and that was a good idea because shit that story was awful enough already.
>>83344454
whoa we dont use that kinda hate speech in here. also what u mean?
>>83344468
idk i think it could have been better if she had died
>>83344454
Technically he's an Aussie.
>>83344480
Killing off popular characters for good is never a good idea. Unless you just don't like the character?
>>83344035
>One villain
>One of the most recent issues is about one villain fighting a different villain.
Shit tier bait.
>>83344370
Like how Genesis was the Generations ad?
>>83344480
its fine to kill off characters if ur doing it for the story and for teh weight of the plot. plus after that we had so much crap between her and sonic
>>83344552
Sort of, but at least there was enough wiggle room to work Genesis into the main plot.
>>83344480
She was one of the main characters of the series, and the reason for her death was that "Elias makes her irrelevant." Not only that, her death was going to be from a cat dressed up as Sonic the Hedgehog with goggles that made people look like Snively cutting a rope. Not only THAT, they were going to drag things out even longer with the Sally awakening at the end of Endgame still happening, but being revealed to be an Auto-Aotomaton later. It was an awful, AWFUL story and it deserved to get nixed even if it was just because Sega thought Sally might be useful for merch.
Isn't it amazing that Sonic Archie comics only have one major reboot compare to DC and Marvel universe multiple reboots and Universe
>>83344621
well part of that is idiocy with the plot. that being said i honestly liked the arc. i mean it has serious problem but i like it.
>>83344648
yeah but its not as old.
>>83344225
Because Sega would have a fit if the game characters were that shape.
>>83344519
>Outside of the main series
Yeah Universe has different villains, it always has. Because Universe isn't about Sonic. Sonic used to fight a lot of different threats. Since the reboot he has only fought against Robotnik
>>83344648
Marvel only ever had the one reboot in all of its 75 years. And that's only if you even count "Secret Wars" (the new one, not the one from the '80s) as a reboot (which Marvel itself apparently doesn't).
>>83341549
Actually no, copy of a contract is admissible in court (that's why backups are made in the first place, chucklefuck! You need them in case any kind of legal issue arises) but allegedly, after hearing that Archie's contracts were lost, Penders destroyed his copy and claimed he never signed any contract. It also wasn't a flood but fire.
I find that Archie Sonic is a lot better if you pretend that Universe is the main book and the main book is nonexistent.
>>83344788
well lets be honest, Sonic LIVE is the best and only true cannon
The Unleashed arc has been going on for a long time, but you can't deny it's been a really good way to show what's changed after the reboot, build and expand the world, and re-introduce old characters like Dulcy and new characters like Eggman's Egg Bosses.
And anyone who's afraid that Eggman isn't the man of the master plan anymore needn't fret, he's still as evil and assholish as he's ever been.
>>83344931
twisted, also its kinda like the second robotniks power after he came back
>>83344679
So you're saying stuff like the Dark Gaia and Breezie don't count, but the very few times Mogul and Naugus pop up do?
>>83344931
I am absolutely loving his interaction with the egg bosses.Thunderbolt a qt
>>83344667
Are you retareded or what, since when Sega cares for Bunnie or Antoine.
>>83341705
>the hell?? why? thats the only reason i had any interest. it just invalidates the whole thing.
They didn't totally forget. By Worlds Unite its shown Sonic and Eggman still kinda remember the old universe. Old Universe Metal Sonic is still alive, but is on the bottom of the ocean in Blaze's dimension and uploaded into the Egg Wily Machine X
>>83344992
that makes me almost want to pick them up.
>>83344990
> Breezie
> Villain
Anon plz.
And no the dark Gaia are not villains. They have no goal or evil plot for the heroes to thwart. They are literally just the fallout after the sundering of the planet. Natural disasters can't be villains.
You're really trying to grasp at straws here to defend a plot that we all know is terrible and drawn out
>>83345054
You should
Latest issue of Universe is rocking, we need more arcs focused on the bad guys.
>>83344931
This was such a great scene. Eggman's the perfect comedy villain: kind of bumbling and goofy and incompetent, but also terrifyingly, gleefully, unrepentantly evil.
I also liked Ahklut "I laugh at your pain" the Killer Whale, Thunderbolt "let me die for you senpai" the Chinchilla, and Maw "the Thylacine" the Sociopath.
>>83345051
well thats kinda bettre
>>83345112
I think a problem I have with these villain focused issues is that the egg bosses are almost too likable. It's almost making me want to root for them. I pretty much like these guys better than Sonic and his conga line of backup dancers.
>>83345051
>By Worlds Unite its shown Sonic and Eggman still kinda remember the old universe.
They remember the previous crossover, which got retconned into being because of Sonic Generations instead of the Genesis Wave.
>>83345117
i like an eggman like that if they can do him well.
>>83345157
>not rooting for Eggman and his goons all the time
>>83345157
>not always preferring the villains
Why the fuck would you rather read about Sonic, Tails and Sally than Axel, Kukku and Thunderbolt even before this arc?
>>83345112
I've always loved the issues where they make you cheer for Robotnik. Eggman VS. Snively/Iron Queen was spectacular, and these issues you mentioned are right up there. Though I'm not a big fan of Naugus' sister, Hagus and her generic minions power bear, crazy wolf, and bitch bunny
>>83345086
she's a lawful evil villain, sure. She still exploited a world crises to make money and held an artifact key to saving the world hostage. And did you not remember the flashback to Sonic 2 Game Gear where she was leading Sonic into traps on purpose?
I also have to wonder why the writers specifically like Sonic 2 Game Gear so much, they're tying it into Breezie, Scratch, Grounder, and Coconut's backstories, and they're also tying into the Naugus Twins backstories too.
>>83345086
Breezie is Mammoth Mogul and worked with Eggman, so yes she's a villain. And Dark Gaia is a monstrous force that's going to destroy the world, so yes it's a villain. We also have Naugus and Wendy and Team Hooligan.
I'm sorry that you're upset that we don't have fifty filler baddies to show up once every forty issues and then disappear for another forty issues, but the central threat to Sonic has always been Eggman.
>>83345157
they look awesome. but id also like to see them die
>>83345157
Well, Sonic is kinda a unlikeable asshole much of the time.
>>83345157
Just remember that when Sonic meets these goons they're usually up to some nasty stuff. Like Eggman, they're fun but it's more fun if they lose.
>>83345163
Yep, although the original Genesis Wave (the events of "Genesis") still apparently happened in the new timeline.
>>83345233
Current betting odds on /sthg/ has the green pronhorn of endless suffering on the upper right as most likely to die, followed by suffering green's sister and the fat yellow chincilla sychophant
>>83345196
Axel said like two lines before this arc, he wasn't very interesting.
>>83345274
He was pretty clearly established as "minion who hates putting up with Eggman's shit", though, which is great.
>"Wake up, son. It's time for school."
Grand Battle Kukku XIV confirms he's still the best character in Nu252.
>>83345267
i just might have to start buying these again
Akhlut still Psychic-type and Tundra confirmed as Ice-type.
>>83345196
By "conga line of backup dancers" I was more referring to the one to five new characters that get introduced every issue for the sake of world building, but since every issue is split into to stories to get this arc done with as quickly as possible, they come across as kind of boring and unneeded.
Like these guys, they're cute, but that's about it.
>>83345297
The Grand Battle Kukku is...Bizarrely badass.
He looks like a clown but works strangely well.
>>83345051
Actually, Sonic and Eggman remember that they met with MegaMan and Wily, but their memories of the old world have completely vanished. Even Sonic mentions that the memories have been gradually slipping and being replaced by the memories of this new continuity.
>>83345229
>Breezie
Breezie straight up told Eggman to go fuck himself. She also worked with the heroes to an extent. Cynical? Yes. Villainous, absolutely not.
>Team Hooligan
Come on, really? Every time they show up they are on contract with Eggman
>Naugus
Is a villain, but has yet to do anything relevant or villainous since the reboot. He started off POTENTIALLY villainous, then straight up bounced 'till now. And again, he's not even in the main series
Eggman has literally been the only villain this entire run so far.
>>83345310
please do. Remember a few months ago where there was a four month gap in the series because Archie literally couldn't afford to print their own comics until Sega came and commissioned yet another Sonic comic.
Also, its strange to see the villains value teamwork more than the main hero.
>>83345393
We've also only seen them for one issue so far, relax your tits. Every mini-arc has fleshed out the newcomers to a good degree, and yes this is to show that there's more at stake than just Knothole and the cartoon characters, it's an entire planet in danger.
>>83345289
That's a good two thirds of his minions. It's not an amazing trait on its own.
But what about the knuckles family??
>>83345472
I guess your right. I guess there's just been so many characters introduced lately it's kind of worn thin.
Also, Dulcy still looks like ass. Pale green and pink is never a pleasing combination.
>>83345470
It's a good contrast with Sonic's fierce independent streak. Or would be if anybody but Axel also believed in teamwork.
>>83345485
They all belong to Penders
>>83345460
Tell us who you want as new villains equal to Eggman in threat? Erazor Djinn? Merlina? They can't use Eggman Nega because Sega's incredibly weird about him right now. If it's an OC, how do you want him/her to be threatening? What's the motivation? How would they equal Eggman's threat?
>>83345470
villains are villains, not stupid
>>83345534
Conquering Storm is also a big believer in teamwork. In fact, she apparently built her army by preaching equality??
>>83345460
I want to fuck breezie
>>83345592
Who doesn't?
>>83345470
Archie's doing that bad, eh? Sounds like the end of Archie Sonic might be near. Excellent.
>>83345577
She gathered the strongest to her and took over, but she's not a fan of teamwork itself, as shown by her going Leeroy Jenkins against the Witchcarters and mocking Mordred Hood for how he does things.
i think the reboot made it more sonic-y but the post-penders pre-reboot world had more going for it entertainment wise
>>83345577
She believes in strength, not teamwork. Her equality is that might makes right no matter where it comes from.
>>83345612
They really needed that Kickstarter.
>>83345606
people who remember what she looked like in SatAM
>>83345086
>Breezie doesn't count.
>Mogul does.
Tip top Kek.
>>83345556
Knuckles himself doesn't, but that didn't stop Penders from trying to using him in his crappy donut steel comic anyway.
>>83345460
>Villainous, absolutely not.
Actually, she is being built as a villain a la Lex Luthor; someone who pulls shady shit and gets away with it because she's massively popular and loved by the oblivious masses, and the heroes don't have any concrete evidence to nail her. Besides, she's been shown in her past to be a selfish sociopath; when Sonic calls her out on bringing a life of a kid (Tails) and all the innocent people in the world at risk by helping Eggman, she coldly retorts with "my own financial well-being is more important".
>>83345722
>trying to using him
The dangers of not rereading your post when you change something at the last minute.
>>83345699
the kickstarter was a huge part of the problem
>>83345716
mogul actually tried to take over the world. Breezie tried to kill Sonic years ago but was kind of terrible at it, and is not spending her time giving the world cirppling gambling addictions.
>>83345712
You mean AoSTH?
>>83345612
Sonic is the book that keeps them in business.
>Excellent.
kys
>>83345612
Nah, Archie Sonic is their biggest moneymaker, despite crippling piracy issues. Their problem is their desperation to salvage its flagship Archie and Pals series despite declining readership.
>>83345712
>SatAM
Uh...... Nothing?
>>83345561
You're not really following what I'm getting at. Yes of course I want a new villain/threat for the heroes to go up against, and coming up with new ones was never really a problem before the reboot.
What I'm saying is that it would be easy for them to introduce new villains and fresh stories once the Unleashed story is concluded, and which should have concluded a while ago. I've been saying that I really dislike the reboot, but I feel like that is unfair to say until this purgatory of a story arc is over and a new one starts. it's gone on for waaaaay too long and I want to see what else they have to offer (if anything)
And Maw shows what he can do.
It's not pretty.
1/2
>>83345803
2/2
Don't worry, they will live on. In mah belleh.
>>83342822
Admittedly, while I love that artstyle for comedic effect (and I'm a sucker for Jon Gray's work in general), it tends to give the reader tonal whiplash when the writers try to do something too dramatic with the characters drawn like that, like in your pic. This type of simplistic, exaggerated comic is more suited to the "off-panel" segments at the end
>>83345561
metal sonic impersonates him again and makes Shadow Android his second in command and we have a villain war.
There's also those guys in Silver's timeline that tried to control the Second Devourer and fucked it up. They seem like decent bad guys.
>>83345744
>You have to try and conquer the world to be a villain.
Shit, let's just keep adding qualifiers! You also need a penis and a mustache, because I say so.
>is not spending her time giving the world cirppling gambling addictions.
But she's literally building a global empire out of gambling, media control, and making people admire her.
>>83345858
she's lawful evil, sure. And exploitive. But she's a long shot from being a villain because she has no direct agency in opposing the heroes.
Also I meant to saw "now" not "not
>>83345765
Why would I die when I will one day live to see the end of Archie Sonic and the endless stream of bitter tears that will follow? That's worth living for, is it not?
>>83345920
because Archie Comics is a 70 year old company, and this book is over 20 years old
>>83345847
Damn anon that first plot Has really good potential, id also like to see Snively worked in there
Also, wasn't Snively retconned to not being related to Robotnik? He was just like Robotniks intern or some shit? I feel like I read that somewhere, I hope I'm wrong
>>83345903
This anon gets it
>>83345958
>Also, wasn't Snively retconned to not being related to Robotnik?
Not sure, but that does sound like the kind of thing Flynn would do.
>>83345958
pic related
>>83343693
That's a horrible idea.
>>83346006
>>83345958
Sega told Archie "No family relationships with any of the game characters who don't have family in game canon". So Snivly had to be changed from Eggman's nephew to a minion.
>>83346033
On the bright side, you'll never see Shadow or Rouge or any of the other shitty 'Sonic Adventure' characters ever again.
>>83345800
>We need new villains, and it's this story arc's fault we don't have any!
>Aside from the 12 new ones.
>And half a dozen more.
>And the fact that about five of them aren't tied to Eggman doesn't matter, because MOST of them weren't on the core book first!
Keep reaching, friend.
>>83346021
at least we got a new waifu out of this, but she really doesn't fit with the more cartoony looking humans elsewhere in the comic.
