Why do people hate The New 52 so much?
>>83333864
Not muh.
Because it ruined a lot of shit
I wouldn't mind so much if some of the asshole writers didn't take this as an opportunity to manipulate a lot of important precedents.
>>83333864
Seems like they trying to do Ultimate Marvel but kind of failed. They ended up doing away with things people really liked. I'm not an expert here though.
Comic readers - the populace at large really - are allergic to reboots of anything they've invested any amount of time in.
It's not marvel and /co/ is heavily marvel bias
I don't hate it, but outside of a few good books (most of which got canned), the beginning of the new 52 was a mess and it's understandable why it turned people off.
Right now I have the hardest time getting my friend to pick up a DC book after he read nu52 Static and some others.
It was just a poorly thought out and poorly executed reboot with only a few gems in it.
But people are going to say it's because comic book fans can't accept change and not because most of the comics and the management behind them were an absolute mess.
>>83333864
Well it was bad.
It's not rocket science.
Honestly just read the Rebirth one-shot. When you start over you lose all the relationships, history, legacy, etc. Of course you can rebuild it but in the meantime the stories aren't as fulfilling.
There were still plenty of good runs, but that sort of thing was why people didn't like it beyond just NOT MUH.
>>83333974
This is the correct answer for the very vocal minority that absolutely hates the New 52:
NOT MUH.Personally, I enjoyed the New 52. It took a bit of time for DC to find their footing and there were good books and there were bad. But I think the overall quality:crap ratio was much better than pre-Flashpoint and they're making more money now than they were prior.
>>83334755
>But I think the overall quality:crap ratio was much better than pre-Flashpoint
I have to disagree with this. There were some terrible books out there and it seemed like the best ones ended up getting canned or dragging on way too long (looking at you Animal Man)
>>83334080
>They ended up doing away with things people really liked.
Like?
>>83334877
The entire universe pre-flashpoint universe that people were still invested in?
>>83333864
The people that pushed for it also pushed for plenty of truly retarded ides that pulled the rug out from under the entire DCU.
Everyone had to be younger and cooler, nobody knew each other, tons of characters were ditched or made unrecognizable, and decompressed modern writing styles meant rebuilding stuff took forever (and almost nobody bothered to do it anyway).
The world felt so small and unimpressive, and even as DC in general got their act together, the only series that addressed it was Parker's JLU, which was immediately cancelled.
Pretty much everything Johns talked about was spot-on, which is why I'm really optimistic about Rebirth.
>>83334947
Fortunately this didn't really matter if you were a Batfag.
Unless you liked Tim Drake, but that means you're a bad person and should feel bad about having bad taste because you're a bad person who should feel bad.
>>83334877
Legacies
Pretty much every one of them besides the Robins.
It's a huge part of the DCU.
>>83335086
>The world felt so small and unimpressive, and even as DC in general got their act together, the only series that addressed it was Parker's JLU, which was immediately cancelled.
BRAVO LEMIRE.
>>83335117
Except Batman's whole history got a bit confusingTim and Damian are my favorite Robins.
>>83333864
>Why do people hate The New 52 so much?
Read rebirth, Johns summed it up well.
It removed legacy, love, hope in a addition to reconning out a bunch of characters and events people loved.
>>83335117
>Fortunately this didn't really matter if you were a Batfag.
What? They took so much away from us, and gave us easily the worst version of the Joker since... maybe ever?
>>83335117
Red Hood got fucked over pretty bad too.
Plus the Batgirls.
Jim Lee no longer has any real power at the company, right?
That piece of shit hack was a driving force behind the reboot.
He did almost all of the hideous redesigns and pushed for the Wildstorm integration, which didn't result in anything decent until four goddamn years later.
>>83335184
And still no Hal & Ollie.
>>83335193
What the fuck? New 52 Joker was fucking based.
>>83334213
I'm just getting fucking sick of it. I don't need to see Uncle Ben, Kal-El and Martha Wayne die over and over.
I want some stories that take place in media res of their super hero adventures. No more quiting, no more restarting. It's getting old.
>>83334254
>But people are going to say it's because comic book fans can't accept change and not because most of the comics and the management behind them were an absolute mess.
Yeah it always feels like the people at the Big Two aren't on the same page. Like it's too hard to send an email to a coworker and find out what they're doing with a book or character and make sure the two books don't contradict each other.
>>83335455
He was edgy, edgy is bad and triggers me.
>>83335455
He wasn't though, Death of the Family was one of the dumbest Batman stores ever.
>>83335463
>Like it's too hard to send an email to a coworker and find out what they're doing with a book or character and make sure the two books don't contradict each other.
But that would require quality control and for people to actually do their jobs.
>>83335117
>Fucked over Tim
>Fucked over Dick (until Grayson)
>Fucked over Cass
>Fucked over Stephanie
>Fucked over Oracle
>>83334406
This too. I totally forgot to say it even I've been thinking about it a lot lately. It's why I just said what I just said in my other post -- no more reboots.
Don't throw everything away anymore.
>>83335514
Still triggered because Harper is taking Cass' spotlight?
>>83335510
How was it dumb?
Also, do you like Endgame?
>>83335472
Elaborate, mate.
>>83335117
>didn't really matter if you were a Batfag
You're joking. We got the shaft left right and centre. The only thing that makes me feel any better is that we got the greatest run ever before the reboot.
>>83335514
>Tim is out of the Titans
>but written by Tynion
>Cass came back in a horrible story, got a horrible costume/name, and will be written by Tynion
>Stephanie's return and appearances were actually pretty okay
>will now be written by Tynion
>Babsgirl got internet popular so we're stuck with her, regardless of the universe becoming more like post-Crisis
>Kate got fucked by editorial, raped by a fake vampire, and will now be written by Tynion
Jesus, thank God for King and Seeley.
>>83335455
So I pretty much gave up on Joker after they spent a year not resolving the face issue.
You're going to have to explain to me what this joker did to make you think he's based because I just don't know much about him outside of that story and death of the family.
>>83335569
>Elaborate, mate.
I'm just memeing, senpai. Remember all those posters on various forumsand /co/who were all grossed out by JOKER ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE EDGY, HE'S SUPPOSED TO USE COMEDY TO KILL?
I bet it's same sort of people who not muh'd New 52 Superman to death.
>>83335860
I don't understand what you're trying to say
>>83333864
People are already mentioning legacies but I was also disappointed by how they removed important character motifs.
Mister Freeze's tragic back story? Gone. He was never married to Nora only obsessed with her. ... So just the same as Mad Hatter and Alice.
Lobo as a bombastical and rude force of nature? Gone. They tried a "cool" clean shaven NuBo with questionable morals. So the same as RedHood.
Nu52 Billy started out as an angry brat.
Cyborg had no past of his own anymore and was turned into the token black JL member.
They even got rid of Aquaman's history with Black Manta for some reason.
>>83336400
>Nu52 Billy started out as an angry brat.
At least there he had a believable reason for being a brat and it made the story better because of it.
>>83333864
Superman's costume in that picture is the answer to your question, anon.
>>83333864
It didn't feel new.
Because it was a change, and comic readers hate anything changing
>>83339799
It definitely has nothing to do with the quality of the books. Nope.
>>83339826
Nobody read the quality books and they ended up cancelled.
>>83339845
The quality books were so few and usually involved characters that weren't A listers. Of course they got cancelled.
I can only name a total of five books in the entire first year of the new 52 that were good. You also want to ignore the management behind these comics being an absolute disaster.
>>83339870
>Green Lantern
>Aquaman
>Demon Knights
>Dial H
>Animal Man
>Action Comics
>Wonder Woman
I also liked the Flash and Batman, but those are more divisive.
>>83336400
>Not liking NuBilly
Do you hate character arcs, anon?
>>83339904
Oh and also All-Star Western, plus New Guardians started out fun.
>>83333864
Some people do, some people don't and some are indifferent.
The vast majority of humanity doesn't know about it and doesn't care.
>>83339904
>Dial H
>Animal Man
>The quality books were so few
>and USUALLY involved characters that weren't A listers
>>83339913
He hates different things. It fills him with fear and insecurity
>>83339904
I liked Swamp Thing, Amethyst and I, Vampire too
>>83339928
>>and USUALLY involved characters that weren't A listers
A good book is a good book anon.
Flashfag here.
Besides the obvious loss of legacy (which is very important in Flash), the books became too generic.Manapul & Booch used their god tier art to hide bland ass story and Barry never gave me a solid reason to pick him over other speedsters.
Flash is a book about love, family, bonds and it turned into "Speed Force monster of the month" book instead.
After Venditti's abomination of Wally, a Rebirth had to happen for them at least.
>>83339987
I think you're missing what I'm trying to say.
I love Animal and Dial H so I'm not shitting on them at all if that's what you're thinking.
I'm saying the majority of books DC rolled out during the first year of the new 52 were really bad and only made worse because no one at DC seemed to be on the same page. I was saying the good books that starred characters that weren't as popular as others didn't do so well (because there were no big names attached to them) so naturally they got cancelled. You listing those few comics out of the 52 they rolled out with only furthers what I'm trying to say about the good books being so few and far between while the majority of DCs output for the longest time was garbage.
So yeah, a good story is a good story, but that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
>>83339799
It wasn't enough change so you just ended up with boring watered down versions of characters that didn't warrant a reboot.
>>83335086
>The people that pushed for it also pushed for plenty of truly retarded ides that pulled the rug out from under the entire DCU.
That one forgotten comic Jim Lee greenlighted during The New 52 era, the creator-owned Insurgent (originally pitched at Wildstorm but finally published under the DC Entertainment banner, a very rarity), was cancelled three issues in. Not putting it to Vertigo is a mistake.
>>83335280
I think he permitted Scott Lobdell and Bob Harras at DC, among a few other 90's Marvel staffers, and also allowed fellow Wildstorm artist Brett Booth to even prosper.
>>83340050
>I'm saying the majority of books DC rolled out during the first year of the new 52 were really bad and only made worse because no one at DC seemed to be on the same page.
Was New 52 really that rushed?
>>83340110
>I think he permitted Scott Lobdell and Bob Harras at DC, among a few other 90's Marvel staffers, and also allowed fellow Wildstorm artist Brett Booth to even prosper.
What a guy.
>>83340147
At the very least it was poorly edited. Inconsistencies were everywhere
>>83340147
>Was New 52 really that rushed
Going by it's first year, yeah.
>>83339904
Flash art was god tier but average everything else.
Supergirl was also pretty good.
>>83340147
>Was New 52 really that rushed?
It took them like two years to finally agree on a tone for Superman.
I personally hate the Nu52 because of what it did to Bart Allen.
Just to simplify the things they did to him:
- He's not even Bart Allen. His real name is "Bar Torr" and used Bart Allen to hide his true identity.
- His family were fervent Christians, which is bad in Bar's timeline, because the government then is an atheist socialist regime that punishes religion with death.
- Death squad executes Bar's family while he and his little sister watch while hiding
- Oh yeah, Bart also has a little sister now.
- Living on the streets now, Bar steals food and takes up a job with the military, the same one that killed his family, to provide for his sister.
- On a mission transporting supplies to some planet, Bar's space ship is struck by a mysterious object, killing everyone on board except him. Chemicals or whatever from the supplies spill on him, granting him a connection to the Speed Force.
- He uses these newfound powers to massacre an entire barrack of soldiers and then leads a civil war against the government, causing the death of thousands.
- Bar begins to realize that his faction was starting to become too bloodthirsty so he decides to turn himself in, because he wants to now work for the government for some dumb reason.
- The government instead decides to send Bar backs to the past for an even dumber reason.
Lets not even talk about witpro "Tim Drake" and Kon-El, clone of the villainous Jon-El from the future.
>>83339928
So? I was just pointing out there were more than five.
Especially if you tack these: >>83339961
on.
>>83340184
Yeah, but I'd still classify it as good. Manapul is the perfect Flash artist and the stories certainly weren't bad.
>>83340286
And what point are you trying to make?
How does that at all tackle anything I said in my post?
>>83340306
Well, you said in this (>>83339870) post, that you could only name five books in the first year that were good. I was pointing out that you can name at least nine that are beloved by most, plus another few that are generally considered good.
>>83340338
So those few titles out of the 52 comics that were released?
That just takes me back to
>The quality books were so few
>>83333864
Because it was pointless.
Expend years building a world that is really confusing or the number of characters and stories.
Start again to be more clear, get rid of all the shit acumulated through years and appeal new readers.
In just two years everything is a mess again because they were too impatient to introduce all the characters and stories again.
Is as if you clean the attic of all the dust and garbage acumulated through years to make a nice clean game room. Then the next day you put all the garbage back to the attic. what was the point?
>>83333864
All the good reasons have already been posted so I'll just add this: Fuck Cyborg.
>>83340716
I don't get it. They really want Cyborg to be a thing but then they outright refuse to do anything interesting with him.
Edgy went out with the '90s. Sorry, OP.
Reading New 52 Comics in 2016 is like listening to disco in 1997.
>>83340774
00s DC had comparable amounts of edge.
>>83340753
I regarded Cyborg's inclusion as lip service and nothing more. Nobody has known what to do with him for 30 years. Why would anyone have a plan for him the new 52?
>>83340826
And this is why the reboot sucked.
It would have been a good time to change things up and actually make Cyborg a good character but they go right back to the tired ass half-terminator face 'waaahhh im half robot' shit.
There were some good stories told in New 52 books.
However the whole premise of 'We're going to wipe out decades of continuity to satisfy new readers. AND we're going to make our characters younger, cooler, and edgier!" does leave a nasty taste in my mouth. As it did for all those creators that abandoned DC en masse like rats fleeing a sinking ship, i'm sure.
>>83340275
It's like muh 90z X-men
>>83340913
It's a soft reboot all around. Usually characters get rebooted all the time, de-ageing and retcons and all that shit. You have to be smarter than that, just because you don't hear someone say "reboot" you should be able to tell yourself that a character's history is getting retconed and he is being portrayed as younger than he was in that run several years ago
>>83334240
I beg to differ
>>83340970
>a character's history is getting retconed and he is being portrayed as younger than he was in that run several years ago
A good jumping on point for new readers. But an even better jumping off point for older readers such as myself.
>>83335117
I haven't read New 52, but from what I've heard,
>No Babs
>Bat"woman" is a lesbian
>Thomas and Martha were killed as part of a conspiracy instead of a random mugging
I can feel the suffering from here.
>>83333864
A lot of characters had their backgrounds needlessly rewritten to fit them into movies. For example, cynical Billy Batson or Martian Manhunter being completely reimagined so he wouldn't overlap with Superman, similar but worse origins like Killer Frost's , completely out of left field reimaginings like Deula Dent.
There were a lot of good stories, and some reimaginings were really good, like Killer Croc, but the loss of history left a bad taste in people's mouths.
>>83341037
>Bat"woman" is a lesbian
Welcome to 2006.
>>83341037
>Hating on Batwoman
Pleb please. And I thought the Owls didn't plan the mugging. Like, they did try to have them killed before, in a car crash, but the mugging thing was entirely independent of them.
>>83335117
Found the Damienigger
>>83341037
>>Thomas and Martha were killed as part of a conspiracy instead of a random mugging
That's Morrison for you
>>83341067
>muh strong indipendent Batwoman that needs no ties to Batman
>trying to push her as her own super original character instead of a derivative product
>but she is redheaded lesbian! this makes it good!
Glad it got canned.
>>83335514
He was talking about Batman not "OC the gallery"
>>83336400
Fuck I forgot Freeze getting fucked
>>83341093
Do you even read the comics you're shitting on?
>>83341093
>muh strong indipendent Batwoman that needs no ties to Batman
Why would she even be related to Batman? Like, she only donned the Batman costume because she wanted to wear something criminals already feared. Batman does interact with her, but mostly just lets her do her thing.
>>83341153
exactly, she is a rip-off but the writers treated her almost as she was the original deal
>>83341174
>but the writers treated her almost as she was the original deal
What do you even mean by this?
>>83334213
Not really reboost, but constantly changing origns and needless change because for attention sake.
For example:
Anon A: I like the superman.
Anon B you mean rebirth? New 52? 52 or pre flashpoint?
It delude the origns too much for me.
>>83341093
You're fucking stupid.
>>83341184
You would know if you followed the entire editorial release of the comic.
>>83341208
Said the child that can't even make arguments and has to use petty insults. Let people discuss, retard, and go play with your toys.
>>83341037
>No Babs
What?
>Batwoman is a lesbian
Already true pre-New 52
>Thomas and Martha killed by conspiracy
I haven't read much Batman, so maybe this is a New 52 thing, but I know it happens on Gotham, so maybe you got it from that?
>>83341242
*tips fedora*
>>83341242
>You would know if you followed the entire editorial release of the comic
So instead of explaining what you meant you want to assume I didn't read the comic?
Let's say I didn't read the comic and I was genuinely curious about what you meant, why not just explain yourself so I could understand?
It waffled wildly, too. On one hand you had "CUTTING OFF MY FAAAAAAACE" Joker, which was neither creepy or unsettling, just ridiculous, and on the other you had John Constantine unironically using the word 'ciggies'. It was just a huge mess across the board for the first year or so.
>>83341242
>>83341297
And on top of this. What the hell does Morrison have to do with the court of owls or their conspiracy (which doesn't involve the Wayne's death)?
>>83341343
the Wayne's death being part of something bigger and a conspiracy by Dr. Hurt is a Morrison idea
>>83341451
Except we're specifically talking about the new 52.
What does that have to do with Morrison who's only Batman title post-nu52 was Batman Inc.?
The whole conspiracy thing is all Snyder.
>>83333864
Because water is wet. Obviously there were good books that managed to squeak out but maybe only a couple of truly great ones that didn't need an abandoning of the richest history in comics to happen. Anyone defending it either started reading comics during it or is a delusional company warrior.
>>83341494
the point is that Morrison already ruined the Wayne's murder
at least Snyder left it vague since it's never confirmed that the Owls actually did it
and keep in mind that the pre-52 stuff is still canon for Batman, especially considering Batman Inc started before new-52
>>83341093
Fuck off buddy, Batwoman was one of the few legit good relaunch books.
>>83341582
Morrison never made the Waynes' murder being a conspiracy explicit either.
>>83341582
>keep in mind that the pre-52 stuff is still canon for Batman
Except it isn't.
Batman Inc. adapted to the new 52 pretty quickly.
>>8333551 troll harder fagoat death in the family was fucking great and I jerked off to it every day consecutively for three months before my dick fell off and I became a priest for my lord and Savior Batman open up your souls to the prophet robin
>>83341314
For all the complaints of nu52 batman, I have a couple friend who got into comics with deathin the family and loved it. They also like the latest dcau movies. I dunno, maybe normies actually like that edgy shit
>>83342541
Snyder's run was less edgy than the previous one
>>83341639
I feel like there's been numerous stories in the past that already suggested, at the very least, the Waynes' murder was a mob hit.
People didn't like it and DC seems to agree
>>83335660
> Tim, Steph, and Cass all on a comic together.
> Tim has an alright, but more Robin-like costume than Red Robin. Cass merging of current and past costumes looks too ridiculous.
> It also has Batwoman and Clayface.
> the "fan favorite" will return plus apparently Jean Paul Valley.
> So many characters in the comic it's gonna be overcrowded like heck.
> Still have hold over hope for Tynion to deliver given Batman/TMNT and tiny bits of Batman & Robin Eternal.
The reality of how bad this comic will be is gonna smash me in the face won't it?
>>83335472
Don't falseflag. He was poorly written AND edgy, which is a bad fucking combination.
>>83333864
>Why do people hate The New 52 so much?
It was a reboot that radically altered most characters not called Batman, and since they were altered, the fans of those characters judged them anew and realized that they were reading shit comics made by retards and it wasn't worth it anymore without the irrational familiarity-based attachment they used to have.
Only reason it didn't immediately crash and burn was because they left Batman, the best selling character they have, almost untouched.
>>83345410
>almost untouched
>removed part of the batfamily
>removed redundant characters
>more focused storytelling
they made it better
>>83345410
So they were changed and people didn't like the changes and that means they were always bad? Fucking moron.
>>83345442
If it was better then what the fuck is Rebirth?
>>83345469
Superhero comics are all shit and have always been shit and will always be shit. That's built in into the concept of the superhero comic: you have to be shit. Only reason people read them, literal only possible reason, is nostalgic familiarity and the irrational emotional attachment that comes with it. Without it, the entire medium is exposed as filth.
>>83345469
Why are you ignoring the fact that most of the books were not good and no one at DC had any idea what they were doing.
You're probably baiting and I'm an idiot for replying, but this has been pointed out so many times in the thread already.
>>83344310
If you have any hope at all, you have too much hope.
Way to salvage Tec: pare down the cast to just Tim/Cass/Steph, scrap the ludicrous "boot camp" concept, fire Tynion.
>>83334240
Its actually decently half half. Maybe 60-40 with marvel taking the cake. But I expect a large population of that 60% are casuals who don't actually read any of the things they complain about.
>>83345564
Same thing that ANAD and Marvel NOW! are.
>>83345469
You should have known niggerlips up there was going to go into a tirade about how much he hates superheroes when you posted that.
Don't even talk to fags like that. Either shitpost at them or ignore them, or if they're an obvious Disney shill dump embarrassing Marvel screencaps, but never actually talk to them. You're not going to change their minds and they aren't going to use any kind of logical or reasoned arguments.
Now look what you've done:
>>83345642
>>83345678
>>83334240
You mean /tv/. /co/ has always been DC first, since DC's always been the one with good stories. Plus DC has more and better animation, so they have the most non-comic readers native to this board.
The MCU just brought in a lot of /tv/ memebois who hate comics and HATE DC.
That's why only recently have we started getting so many posts about how comics should just stop being made so they can make movies instead.
>>83345852
lol
>>83333864
We all know the true issue here. Nothing can last forever. It's actually a miracle that we are still having comics with the same stories and characters. This goes for both DC and Marvel. I love cape shit, but the constant changes of art style and writers always fuck everything up.
Also, comic universes always end up in a point were there is so much shit going on, so many characters that the suspension of disbelief is shattered, the world is not believable anymore.
Also, both universes would benefit if the power levels were reduced a bit. The heroes are just way to strong, and the cosmic crisis too common. Eventually everything is such a mess than a reboot is mandatory.
Poor planning. They didn't have enough time to properly figure out how the New 52 should be structured and it definitely shows. I still remember everyone being hella confused about when certain series where supposed to be set. Detective was 5 years before Batman and Action was 5 years before Superman, but Justice League took place before Superman or Batman but after Action or Detective. Green Lantern kinda just went on the same story that was being told pre-flashpoint while Flash was more or less a soft reboot than anything and Wonder Woman was a complete overhaul of the character. Shit was confusing and nobody knew what exactly was going on anymore
>>83333864
No Cassandra Cain.
Actually, it was more than that - they were actively making it difficult to have a Cassandra Cain. They had removed Oracle and NML event from continuity, de-aged Shiva, made Jason the magic ninja and randomly gave her body-reading ability to Dick for no reason. So it wasn't just the fact that she wasn't there yet, it was also DC actively erecting walls and minefields in her way.
There was a bunch of other shit wrong with Nu52 too, but seriously, if you do shit like that to my favorite character, that tells me that you're not interested in my money.
>>83346561
I would buy a comic where somebody rapes and kills Whor.
>>83335660
>Babsgirl got internet popular so we're stuck with her
No. "Babsgirl" has always been the only Batgirl people know or care about outside the comics. That's why they brought her back, and that's why she's here to stay.
To the general public, Barbara is to Batgirl what Bruce is to Batman.
>>83346788
Me too, bud.
I'd rather he rape her then leave her alive, though. Then she'd constantly be looking over her shoulder every day until he rapes her again.
Because it was like taking a puzzle, smashing it and then forcing like 1/4 of the pieces back together into a picture while expecting to get an improved version of the old picture.
>>83346762
>Muh Waifu: The Post.
Cool story, bro.
>>83347010
You're implying that anybody reads this shit for any reason other than Muh Waifu or Muh Husbando. Or writes, for that matter.
>>83345698
>If you have any hope at all, you have too much hope.
My great flaw.
>>83346812
>To the general public, Barbara is to Batgirl what Bruce is to Batman.
> the general public know her as Barbara something something in Batman & Robin. Or hot ass girl who was in Star Trek.
> They know more of Dick and Jason than Barbara.
>>83347280
I'm pretty sure the general public isn't aware of any Bat sidekick/spinoff other than "Robin", and if they were asked, they couldn't even come up with Robin's real name. Would probably call him Burt.
>>83335660
>Cass came back in a horrible story, got a horrible costume/name
Cassfags will never be satisfied. Always angry, always disgruntled. Always hating on whoever is writing her since her Batgirl run ended.
o and...
>Babsgirl
Always jealous that Barbara Gordon is more famous.
You disgruntled idiots make it pretty damn hard for anyone to even touch the character with a 10 foot pole without invoking the wrath of angry fanboys.
Cassandra was fucking awesome in B&R Eternal. The only reason i read that book, and yet as soon as actual Cass fans open their mouths about it, it's nothing but bile and venom all over the place.
>>83347379
It's not 1988 anymore, oldfag. Nobody under 60 even remembers that show.
Most casuals know who Batgirl is because of BTAS.
>>83347468I thought Batman & Robin Eternal was alright, and got what I wanted with #13. It just needed better artist in the final issue. That issue's art was fucking horrible at times.
>>83347468
>Cassandra was fucking awesome in B&R Eternal.
No she fucking wasn't. She was fucking pathetic. How the fuck do you take a character whose main strength is hand-to-hand fighting and put her into a 26 issue story where she loses to fucking everybody? Only person she actually beat was a 70-year-old woman. This, mind you, in a story that's supposed to sell her to new readers! Come one, come all, and see the fucking limp wristed sissy girl who beats up a granny! Fuck.
>as soon as actual Cass fans open their mouths about it, it's nothing but bile and venom all over the place.
Because guess what? The story fucking deserves it. It's trash. They had us wait five years for this? A story where she's reduced to the fawning sidekick of an idiot hipster with a sidecut? The whole fucking thing would hardly have been worse if Beechen wrote it.
>>83347642
>waaaaah my OC isn't the best at everyhting because she has the super autism!!!
>bawwwwww not MUH CASS!
Lmao
>>83347642
They literally use her as a damsel in distress in the end of her own goddamn introduction story. Who the fuck does that?
I was in a store the other day and a little girl was BEGGING her mom for a Batgirl toy. We're talking like, 5 or 6 years old.
>>83347716
Batman in Zero Year, which is from the Nu52 too
>>83335117
They ruined Jason Todd, made him a magic ninja faggot instead of a villain/antihero.
>>83333864
Everything I liked about DC was thrown away. Only Wonder Woman got better
>>83347642
>Only person she actually beat was a 70-year-old woman.
Beats Dick, fights Jason to a stand-still, beats her father a few times, takes out numerous thugs in Poland (but Mother spams her with more respawning minions), beat the "boss" ballerina in Poland only for her teacher to cheapshot Cass and run away with "boss" ballerina gal. Also takes out a few robot guards in that Air Temple.
She did win more than her share of fights in the series.
>>83335390
Fuck that
I want a Barry and Hal comic
>>83335184
>it removed legacy
Except it wasn't the New 52 that removed Kyle in favor of Hal or Wally in favor of Barry.
But I guess legacy only matters when talking about character he doesn't care about.
>>83348199
A comparison I like is to look at the first murders of the classic and Nu52 Cassandra. That's her Joe Chill moment after all, the tone-setter.
Original:
>kills a mobster barehanded while she's eight years old
New Coke:
>needs a knife to kill a civilian woman while she's like 15
One of these is way lamer than the other.
(Also she's a midget now.)
>>83349055
She's always been a midget. Tim and Steph though are now older than her.
>>83334755
Yes, so the reason why people hate Nu52 is NOT MUH, not the fact that they completely butchered the majority of their characters through a pointless reboot that was literally made for a cheap buck. Fans of characters like Lobo and Static have nothing to complain about!
>>83351038
>Lobo
>Static
>fans
Top fucking kek my friend.
No one cared about them until they got changed
