>villain that doesn't give a fuck about world domination
>doesn't end with the heroes assemble to take down the big bad
>a climax that depends more on personal stakes rather than gigantic explosive finale
and yet there's people complaining about why this got better score than other capeshit this year, because Civil War felt more fresh in terms of structure
>>83235312
There are a lot of reasons that this movie is leagues better than Batman V Superman.
>>83235312
Could have done without the Spider-Man stuff which felt out of place as fuck
>>83235312
because they did a comic book movie.
where Zack Snyder was doing "I'm so full of myself in my directing skills"
Really, Zack really takes the fun out of things. The only thing he did right was the joker and he can't take full credit for that.
>>83237526
Woah what? Can't say I agree there sir. Spidey stood out but he didn't take over the movie, plus they did his abilities pretty well, like some were too strong so he had to wear goggles.
>>83238145
I loved him too, but Tony flying to Queens from Europe to find a guy he only knows from videos and spying, dragging him to Europe, and making him a new suit when he's given 36 hours to catch Steve and Bucky is so silly.
>>83238298
mind you its a comic book movie, so having Friday keeping tabs on spiderman in the first place then making a costume for him was probably done before because again he was keeping tabs on spiderman, then flying around the world is yeah bat shit nuts but again comic book movie.
>>83235312
The 3rd act is probably my favorite act in the movie and this is a first for the MCU. Usually, I find the final part to be the weakest.
I'm really glad they didn't choose to have a big battle with explosions and teaming up to defeat the villain at the end. The fight was really good and the conversation between Zemo and BP was my favorite scene in the entire movie.
>>83235312
lol, it was horrible, kill yourself
>>83238298
They kind of go over it quickly, but Spider-Man's powers really stand out to Tony. Catching a car like nothing. The webs. The biggest thing handicapping THIS Spider-Man is his lack of experience.
Once the kid gets older, he might even be leading the Avengers.
>>83235312
>Civil War felt more fresh in terms of structure
I can admire it for what it's trying to do, but it's still a pretty poorly written movie.
>>83238145
It's still a pretty obvious that it was shoe-horned in. It's not the only thing though, most of the Avengers stuff has zero bearing to the actual plot of the movie.
>>83235312
It didn't have much presence, but it wouldn't be much of a Civil War if he did.
I just feel like this was his introduction to him.
>>83235312
Only /TVs/ likes BvS more
>>83239409
/tv/ doesn't like it.
BvS was such a gigantic shitstorm that liking it became a meme.
>>83239568
But not a fun meme like Baneposting
Snyder can't even make a meme like Nolan
>>83238859
Wow. I never thought of it in that way
>>83239630
You don't see the big picture anon.
The existance of the DCEU itself IS a meme.
>>83239634
We were all thinking it except you, but we didn't wanna say anything to make you look stupid
>>83239645
But an unfunny, sad meme
Baneposting is glorious and entertaining. DCEU is just depressing.
>>83239656
There is nothing funny about baneposting.
>>83239837
What do you know about "funny"? Tell me a joke clown-man.
>>83239837
Snyder pls.
>>83239837
Why don't you go be a hothead elsewhere, hothead?
>>83239656
Baneposting reached it's height with that plane crash. It can only be down from there.
>>83239920
Baneposting is eternal
>>83239837for
>>83239656
Evansposting is better
>>83241010
Someone is going to edit Evans laughing at the kid with cancer into this.
And I'm going to laugh at that and then go straight to hell.
>>83241029
Mighy as well post evans with better cancer patient
>>83235312
i love how every cw and bvs thread ends up being a circle jerk of angry fan boys unable to take criticism and make pot shots at one another.
At least DCfag thread attempt to analyse the film instead of bitching the whole time.
>>83239837
https://youtu.be/ZzndyGwT1ww
My main problem with the film is that there as no fucking need for the Avengers characters, like Ant-Man and Spider-Man, and that the airport fight was entirely needlessly. The movie itself was needlessly because it ends right where it started. Nothing really significant changed.
>>83238948
Why drag a kid into that situation?
>>83242483
He saw the video and thought he was strong enough to tank it.
His plan was only to have him capture Cap, Bucky and Sam, not deal with Scarlet Witch/Ant-Man when he flew to queens.
Spider-man's skills are pretty well suited for detaining people unharmed.
Also, Tony's arrogance is a character flaw, not so much a plot flaw.
Am I the only person who thinks Civil War wasn't that great?
It wasn't even similar to the comic book version
>>83242678
>It wasn't even similar to the comic book version
That's a good thing, though.
Even if you're talking about size, Russos' CW feels a lot more personal and well written from a character standpoint, with a marginal fraction of the time.
Funny that it's called "Captain America Civil War" yet it's much more balanced, morally.
>>83242747
>That's a good thing, though.
Different anon here, but why exactly? It's good that they didn't make a panel by panel adaptation, but they could've stayed true to all of the important points; like making the focus more about the registration act and the clash between Cap and IM be more about ideals rather than Bucky. The movie feels underwhelming because of this, and it didn't have the scale it should have.
It could've had the better characterization you speak of, plus the clash of ideals. This is a movie that would have been best reserved for the final films of the MCU saga with more heroes introduced etc.
>>83242678
>Am I the only person who thinks Civil War wasn't that great?
Yeah, and you might be gay.
>>83238099
Zack's a great cinematographer and a shitty storyteller.
>>83244277
I disagree with that. I liked the general de-escalation of the movie. I found it a clever mis-direction.
Tony has always disliked the idea of Steve because his moral superiority has always made Tony be in the wrong by default, and now that Tony sees a flaw in Steve, there's no way he'd swallow any more frogs due to his ego.
It tells a better story about friends clashing than Civil War ever did, which felt like they were just fighting to fight. I feel like the political aspect of the story would never prompt a full on war, and just some insults and broken friendships and people stopping tralking to each other altogether. Not until they'd start putting people on concentration camps, anyway.
I don't know, I guess I never really wanted a full blown Civil War on screen in a movie, just because of how fast things would need to escalate. Personal is better, I feel, especially within the context of the MCU vs the comics.
>>83244398
His "cinematography", while impressive, is shit. The images look cool, but fail to convey any of the intended meaning, which is the whole purpose of good cinematography. It's like saying that the Mona Lisa is a good option to advertise a car. Just because it's well painted doesn't mean it's indicated for what you're trying to sell.
>>83242483
In Tony's mind it was
>Iron Man, War Machine, Black Widow, Black Panther
trying to take
>Captain America, the Winter Soldier, and Falcon
in alive.
Having someone faster and stronger than the super soldier (that comes with his own insta-nets) seemed like a good idea. The real question is, why didn't Tony put webshooters on his and Rhodey's armors?
>>83238298
The traveling in general annoyed the shit out of me. I'm pretty sure the movie went to like 15 different countries over the course of the film. It got really fucking annoying trying to keep track of where they where and I didn't see any reason for them to be going to half the places anyways.
>>83242678
>It wasn't even similar to the comic book version
That was a good thing. The comic version is garbage
>>83244545
>It tells a better story about friends clashing than Civil War ever did
In my opinion, something called "Civil War" shouldn't be about that, however poorly written the source material was. It shouldn't be de-scaled either, but I respect your opinion.
I feel the movie was just used to introduce BP and SM because everything else was pointless. It could've been called Winter Soldier part 2 and still work, and maybe even better because it would set up Civil War more appropriately.
>>83244330
Read the thread moron
Many people in this thread didn't like Civil War
>>83244742
With the exception of QUEENS it all fit pretty well, certainly better than Age of Ultron. Flying to Nigeria and back in the beginning was within the Avengers' wheelhouse. The whole middle of the movie, Team Cap moves between Romania, Austria, and Germany (Berlin and Leipzig), which are all hours apart by car.
>>83245478
>which are all hours apart by car.
What about by falcon?
>>83236710
> leagues
I saw what you did, and I appreciate it
Civil War was better overall, because even it's meh moments where just that, meh, and not downright awful like BvS.
At worse Civil War had me "I don't care", BvS reached "WHY THE FUCK DO YOU DO THAT?".
Still, both movies weren't that good, outside a few really enjoyable moments -affleck or airport related, respectively-.
I liked Ultron better than both.
>>83238298
Tony needed two things:
Firstly, he needed a surprise that would catch Cap and his allies completely off-guard, a totally unknown element that they would not be properly prepared to deal with.
Secondly, he needed someone capable of using non-lethal tactics, ie: Peter's webbing. If there was one thing that Team Stark had going for them it was raw killing power, but because of that they were forced to play with the kid's gloves on to avoid, you know, actually KILLING their friends. Hence why Vision was basically just floating around the entire fight instead of attacking,
Yes, it felt a bit awkwardly stuffed into the movie, but the logic behind Tony recruiting Peter is sound.
>>83237526
The inclusion was unneccesary, yeah, but they did a great job of making him an audience surrogate and he gave Cap and Tony some heart.
It reminds that, yeah, everyone is legit trying to do the best thing here, even the dumb kid in a bug outfit.
>>83245706
>>83235312
I honestly think if I saw Batman v Superman before I saw Civil War, I would be less critical of it.
But seeing Civil War, while not a perfect film in itself, showed that BvS was absolute garbage in direction, plot, and pacing, among other things.
I was never a big fan of the CW comic arc but I really enjoyed the story in the movie, and all the fights and conflicts felt natural and logical.
The arguments behind both sides feel equally sound, and the fight scenes aren't just "lets meet up to fight" but more "Im trying to accomplish a goal right now" "I don't want you to accomplish goal, Im going to do what I can to stop you"
In BvS, the TITLE OF THE MOVIE suggests a conflict between Bats and Supes that just never happens in the movie. The fight scene was a literal "we have to fight because he says so" and it can all be resolved immediately if Clark just says "HEY THIS IS WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED" and... thats what he does. It takes like 5 minutes and all the Batman and superman conflict is gone just like that.
In CW that sort of happens but the point was that it was irrelevant to Tony, and so it didnt just wipe away the plot.
Is this the civil war thread?
Does anyone know what song was Maria playing during creepy young RDJ scene?
>>83245706
Whedon, get the fuck out.
>>83246270
Try to remember, from some musical comedy thing.
>>83246270
>>83246374
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3iEoZdImpY
forgot link.
>>83246122
I enjoyed both films, but BvS actually had a fight to the death and a conflict that when resolved presented development to the characters. They didn't fight because "they had to" it was a fight ever since the opening sequence. In CW all you get is a childish skirmish and an attempt at a serious fight in the last 10 minutes, which gets thrown to shit with a letter immediately after.
>>83246122
Its really amazing how little weight the BvS fight has and how it pales into comparison to the Cap vs Iron Man fight. Its poorly choreographed, the reason and resolution to why Bruce/Clark are fighting is ridiculous, and its over before we can even process what just happened. Hell TDKR Part 2 had more impact behind it.
>>83246394
Wow that was disappoint , I thought a woman sang it.
I kind of wish the airport fight had Daredevil on Caps side, not only because its a good way to tie in the Netflix stuff, but I feel like it would have given Black Widow more to do in the skirmish. Not a big deal though
>>83246593
Normies who knows nothing about him will go like "uh wtf who is this guy?" Movie reveals he's blind "haha wtf a blind man fighting lol"
>>83246534
>They didn't fight because "they had to" it was a fight ever since the opening sequence
No, that was definitely a fight because they had to.
>In CW all you get is a childish skirmish
So just because they weren't intentionally trying to kill each other that makes it have less weight? The repercussions are still there and still felt by the end of the movie
>>83246774
Dude, they were literally pulling their punches and throwing quips all over the place, how can you say it wasn't a minor skirmish?
>>83246774
>No, that was definitely a fight because they had to.
Why exactly? Even if you take Lex out of the equation, you would still have a fight between Batman and Superman.
And what repercussions? We even see the heroes tell eachother they are not taking it seriously, or asking if they are still friends. It was all fun and filled with action, but it just felt like a game. Falcon even apologizes to Tony for dodging an attack. Them trying to kill eachother, would give it more weight yes, like a war, but they don't even have to try to kill eachother but they were holding back.
>>83246730
More people watched Daredevil than Ant-Man, probably.
But it's still idiotic just to put him there. Why the fuck would he be there, he knows no one.
>>83247077
>pulling their punches and throwing quips all over the place
>Tony beats Cap half to death (would have killed him if he hadn't held back) and almost killes Bucky, destroying his arm.
>pulling punches
>''Don't bullshit me Rogers, did you know?!''
>''So was i.''
>''You don't deserve that shield!''
>quips
I know DCucks are desperate with how much Marvel murdered them, but this is ridiculous.
>>83239837
For you
>>83237526
The inclusion was unnecessary to the story but for the tone, it helped relieve the relatively drab nature of the first and second act
>>83247404
>held back
>not pulling punches
They were pulling punches man, and those were 3 serious lines amidst an ocean of quips.
>>83247554
what quips?
>>83247554
>They were pulling punches man
Yes, Tony didn't want to kill his (former) best friend, so he opted to half kill him while attempting to kill said friend's best friend. Real kid glove stuff.
>those were 3 serious lines amidst an ocean of quips
I'm the first to shit all over Age of Cucktron for it's ocean of quips and non-threatening villain. That said, where the fuck did you find out of place quips in CW? The movie took itself extremely seriously, and the finale is amazingly grim.
>>83247404
why does it always boil down to dcuck or evansposting whenever someone has a complaint about these movies.
>>83247404
To be fair, Tony had to get Cap out the way to get to Bucky
>>83235312
Because it wasn't artsy enough anon
>>83247404
I was talking about the airport fight, and besides it didn't even matter in the end, they were still friends.
I like Marvel, but you think anyone who dares to say a bad thing about it with DC? Stop your pathetic console war shit
>>83235312
>>villain that doesn't give a fuck about world domination
Batman Begins
TDK
TDKR
Superman the movie
Iron Man 1
Iron Man 2
etc.
So new and original
>>doesn't end with the heroes assemble to take down the big bad
See above
>>a climax that depends more on personal stakes rather than gigantic explosive finale
See above
There was nothing original or fresh about Civil War
>>83247705
>still friends
>still
They hate each other. After watching Avengers again it's easy to see they never saw eye to eye and never will really
My biggest gripe with the movie was how fast they were running in the tunnel. The cars were going at least 30 miles per hour. ....Maybe that's why no one cared when Quicksilver died, everybody could already run as fast as him
>>83237526
To split hairs you could have removed everyone but Zemo, Bucky, Tony and Steve and still have the same level at film.
You could have Black Widow and/or Panther in it to keep Zemo alive but realistically none of the heroes past the three mention are really needed.
That said you could say that about most actioin films and the like
BvS didn't need Wonder Woman, Ant-man didn't need the Falcon fight and so on.
>>83238859
nice argument
>>83238969
nah, i think it's well-written enough handling such a large cast without sacrificing their characterization
>>83238969
How was it poorly written?
>>83247791
Dude, two freaking super soldiers and a panther god-blessed warrior, of course they're gonna be faster then fucking cars.
>>83239630
but martha though
>>83247791
Why? You've got two super soldiers and an enhanced, vibranium armored king chasing each other.
>>83246534
>I enjoyed both films, but BvS actually had a fight to the death and a conflict that when resolved presented development to the characters.
What? Are you joking? BvS' "fight to the death" wasn't even a real conflict; it was just Superman being blackmailed and Batman being tricked by Luthor. Then it all gets resolved by Superman calling his mother by her first name, which also happens to be Batman's mother's name. Then Batman says "Martha won't die tonight" and Superman inexplicably gives him a look that says "I trust you, guy who was just about to stab me to death 30 seconds ago."
Fucking Anakin and Obi-Wan had more weight to their fight in Revenge of the Sith than Batman and Superman did. At least then you could get that these two friends were absolutely sick of each other's shit and not just being rused into fighting.
>>83247783
If they still hated each other why did Cap send a letter and a phone?
Why did Tony read the letter and kept the phone?
They made up
>>83247909
If they made up why are the Avengers still split? If they were friends Cap would have shone up in person.
>>83247404
He's talking about the airport fight and you're talking about the killed my mom fight.
>>83247869
>>83247852
Does super strength equal super speed? Also how would the Panther go as fast as them. It's basically a leather suit except made out of vibranium.
>>83248021
>Does super strength equal super speed?
...are you retarded? Not even mocking you, do you know how human body works? Stronger leg muscles + near limitless stamina = super running. Not to mention they have superhuman reflexes to boot.
>how would the Panther go as fast as them
Because he's enhanced by the heart-shaped herb and further by the Panther God?
>>83248021
I think strength based running should be more long leaping strides than speedster running. Not quite hulk jumps but lengthy sprinting.
>>83248021
Every idiot know that super soldier doesn't mean super strong, it means super everything. You're as strong as a human being can possibly be, you're as fast as a human being can possibly be
Black Panther and Cap are on the same level, essentially two sides of the same coin
>>83248021
All three of them, Steve, Bucky, and T'Challa, are enhanced humans. Did you see Winter Soldier? Did you see where Cap lapped Falcon three times around that park in Washington?
>>83248206
I have not seen Winter Soldier. And since when is T'Challa enhanced?
>>83247955
>If they made up why are the Avengers still split?
Moving goal posts
>If they were friends Cap would have shone up in person.
You can still be friends with someone even if you're not physically near them...
>>83245706
constant quipping and overlong final battle actually brought the film down, it became tiring. I just like how CW balanced everything out, unlike Ultron which has too much things happening and all over the place.
>>83248269
since his book got published in the 1960s
>>83248092
Did he use this heart shaped herb? And was there any mention of this Panther God in the movie. He was normal human in the movie.
>>83248269
Go watch Winter Soldier.
And T'Challa being enhanced is part of the Black Panther lore and backstory. He eats a heart shaped herb meant for the king of Wakanda which gives him his powers. Go look into some of that stuff. He approaches OP levels of strength.
>>83248322
Since Panther in the books is enhanced, and he easily went toe to toe with enhanced people in the movie, it makes sense to me to assume he is enhanced.
>>83248352
But since it wasn't in the movie, that doesn't matter. Movie Black Panther is an unenhanced human
>>83247877
When did Batman ever get tricked into fighting Superman? He was after him ever since that Wayne building got rekt. They were going to fight regardless of Lex. Did you even watch the movie or are you just parroting complaints? The conflict they had was more real than CW's.
>>83248269
>And since when is T'Challa enhanced
Get out, normie scum.
>>83248274
Don't think that counts as goal posts moving, since the Avengers are split because of Steve and Tony. If they were on better terms, then the team would be together. Those two caused the riff.
And they were never friends anon. Almost, if not all, interaction between them has been them clawing at each other. So again if they made up, why aren't they together again? Not to mention the directors straight up said "the Civil War is not over."
>>83248411
You dont know that, since this was not his origin story, but those of us who know the character can infer that that's how he got his powers. It's the only way that he can keep up with Cap and Bucky
>>83248411
But you just said that unenhanced people can't keep up with supersoldiers and moving cars
>>83248411
>>83248322
>>83248269
What even is the point here?
>>83248411
>Unenhanced human
Fucking really? Ok ignoring the fact that the source material directly states his enhanced abilities via herb, and since you have to be told everything in the movie apparently, did you completely forget the scene where he was chasing Bucky and Cap ON FOOT
>>83247800
>You could have Black Widow and/or Panther in it to keep Zemo alive but realistically none of the heroes past the three mention are really needed.
I totally agree and wish they had done what you suggested.
>>83248673
A barely-introduced character's ability set wasn't spoon-fed to them, so they don't believe he has them.
>>83248729
>>83248729
The movie doesn't give you any reason to believe that black panther is more than a man.
>>83248411
Hawkeye is a totally untrained Marksman because they didn't spoonfeed us all the Robin Hood shit training he did
someone get feige on the line and tell him he's a hack
>>83248665
That's the problem,
>>83248820
You mean the fact that he runs faster than cars and can match Cap and WS in combat and running doesn't ring any "ok so this dude has some sort of powers" bells?
>>83248830
But he was a shield agent, So it's a given. The movie doesn't give any implications that T'Challa is enhanced.
>>83248856
so the problem is that they didn't explain that he ate the panther herb, which would've necessitated its own movie explaining the origin and use of the herb, it's symbolic significance and go in depth on wakanda's culture and zeitgeist
the solution, therefore, would be to produce a movie that did all those things, which is what is happening
what point are you trying to make here?
>>83248896
No, it could just mean they are jobbing
>>83248906
Apart from the bit where he keeps up with enhanced people?
>>83248906
It doesn't need to, you just know his superior african genetics give him that power.
>>83248913
Well that's good. I guess I'm done.
>>83248938
Yeah, alright. You know it's ok to admit you're misinformed
>>83248906
he's wearing vibranium
the vibranium absorbs the vibrations wen his legs hit the ground and reduces the fristion of his thighs rubbing together, also he is black
therefore he can run faster than the average bear
>>83248913
He's just dug his feet in, and has no way out without admitting he's a moron.
>>83248968
Nevermind here is the proof I needed. Thank you anon
Look this is just fucking stupid now, the point is Black Panther IS an enhanced human, they just didnt halt the movie just to explain everything about him. Which is fine, because this is Caps story, and Panther will get his chance to shine later.
>>83248485
>Don't think that counts as goal posts moving
This entire debate is over Tony and Steve, NOT the Avengers
>And they were never friends anon.
They were friends, but they were never best friends.
>So again if they made up, why aren't they together again?
Why would they be?
Cap didn't want to be Captain America anymore and would rather be with Bucky
>Not to mention the directors straight up said "the Civil War is not over."
Pretty sure they meant the consequences from that movie aren't over
>>83248992
Okay. I suppose I'm misinformed. Sorry for all the strife I caused
>>83249005
Wait, if vibranium absorbs vibrations, would that mean that Cap's shield couldn't bounce? Or at least not bounce as well as it does in the movies
>>83248411
This might be a new concept to you, but ''show, don't tell'' is something good writers do sometimes. We are SHOWN he can beat the shit out of Bucky and keep up with Cap, we are SHOWN he can run faster then cars, and we are SHOWN he's superhumanly agile. They don't have to spoonfeed you everything.
>>83249109
Lets be honest here, vibranium is a magic metal that does whatever it wants depending on the situation. Hell even Spider Man picked up on this
>>83249037
It was about the Avengers. The hell were the Sokovia Accords all about?
And You need to go back and watch every scene where Steve and Tony talk to each other. Really listen to the dialogue. At the MOST they were colleagues.
And yea, the consequences aren't over, I take that to mean Steve and Tony aren't over this.
>>83249054
You're fine.
>>83249109
It bounces because the shield is cgi.
>>83248322
>was there any mention of this Panther God in the movie
Yes?
>>83249205
>It was about the Avengers. The hell were the Sokovia Accords all about?
I think we're miss-communicating and having two completely different arguments here
>At the MOST they were colleagues.
Still seems like they were friends to me
>>83249294
Maybe. But they were never friends to me. Civil War was just a prom night dispute come to a head, like a zit. It just ended with a fight and not sex.
>>83249294
>>83249357
To be fair the MCU hasnt done a great job displaying their friendship. We are told a lot has happened in between films and are never directly shown unless the shit hits the fan
>>83249054
Good for you on actually admitting some kind of mistake, it's far too rare to actually see that on the internet.
>>83235312
I agree. Its like DoFP, which doesnt end in a fist fight and more in a character development moment.
Then again, you love the rest of the mcu which quicly devolve into fist fights and hate tons of movies who have really interesting character pieces.
You are right, but this is more a case of a broken clock. In which you always says the movie was good, but this time it was actually good.
>>83248906
Widow can't do this.
https://youtu.be/mYKYtwFmZKs?t=67
>>83249546
You're assuming a lot about the history of an anonymous poster, buddy.
