I'll still read King but this is the last straw for me, not going to even casually follow mainline DC anymore.
>>83186996
Yeah, same. Rebirth literally raped my childhood.
Really? THIS is the last straw? Not all the garbage from the last 5 years?
>>83186996
>not thinking this isnt awsome as fuck
Im gonna start gollowing dc because of this.
>>83187040
Report and ignore.
>Dropping DC.
Nah.
>>83186996
Enjoy Nazi Cap, OP!
>>83186996
Why? Explain what's wrong with this. Is no like they are rewriting watchmen, they are using a character from it who is omnipotent and that's all. Nothing changed.
>>83186996
Why?
With these creative teams this is likely going to be the best DC's been in like a decade.
>>83186996
John's line of thinking for using the Watchmen characters in Rebirth is justified.
>>83187100
I doubt it'll just be Manhattan.
But I'm also not some sperg who thinks Watchmen is sacred because people always lazily think of it as the best cape comic ever.
>it's a retard complains about retards being retarded episode
>>83187040
I care about Watchmen a lot more than any of the characters fucked over by nu52, I loved a lot of New 52 or DCYOU titles such as WW, Dial H, Grayson, Batman & Robin, Batwoman and Omega Men. I also casually followed Batman and Justice League.
>>83187098
I don't read Marvel except for Ewing, you realize there are many comic book publishers who don't publish this kind of shit?
>>83186996
I'm adding more DC books to my pull list actually
>>83187100
Watchmen was never ever part of the DCU and they are explicitly disrespecting Alan Moore by using his story in a way that the clearly does not approve of. This storyline, based on what we know, is a sequel to John's storyline in Watchmen, which is really pointless and basically just a cash grab.
>>83187126
I don't care, I refuse to read any comic that will be forced to tie in to this schlocky event.
>>83187142
No it isn't. DKR is the comic that made the industry grim and gritty, and there are many ways to respectfully make a point about Watchmen via the Pax Americana world or the existing DCU versions of Charlston characters. This is a cash grab because they are out of ideas.
>>83187308
Oh damn them, a comics publisher using their characters to tell big, exciting stories while attempting to appeal to old and new readers.
How dare they not bow before the Almighty Alan Moore?
Oh look it's another "I don't read comics I just like to get mad at news articles about them" faggot.
>>83187251
With the DCYou cancellations I'm pretty much evening out, but the overall direction of the DCU makes me goddamn giddy.
Since the reboot it's all felt so small.
>People are getting offended for Alan Moore
How pathetic can you get?
>>83187308
>Watchmen was never ever part of the DCU
This I don't get at all.
Sure it didn't explicitly cross over much, but wouldn't any comics published by DC be considered part of their multiverse by default?
>>83187308
>they are explicitly disrespecting Alan Moore by using his story in a way that the clearly does not approve of
Would Moore have been explicitly disrespecting the original creators if he'd gotten to use Charlton characters like he wanted?
Of course not, that'd be stupid.
>>83187398
1) It's not their characters, they actually broke their deal with Alan Moore a long time ago but he's too much of a fucking hippy to sue.
2) It doesn't appeal to anyone who actually read and fully enjoyed Watchmen because it's superfluous, schlocky and stupid. Why would a fan of Watchmen (a comic known for it's finesse) enjoy this unsubtle trash?
3) It's not about Alan Moore's status, it's about showing respect to the people who made their famous stories. Marvel are much bigger clickbaiters than DC, but they would never be as disrespectful as to take a popular IP like Powers and shove it into an Avengers crossover against their creators' wishes. It's fucking rude to shit on someone's story like that, a comic like Swamp Thing is a legendary run written within DCU that Alan knew would go on to be written by others, but Watchmen was not a story he intended to be continued. Certainly not by a writer as shit as Johns.
>>83187442
I read the comic and I fucking hated it. You don't seem to have an actual argument for why this plotline is not terrible.
>>83187621
>Sure it didn't explicitly cross over much, but wouldn't any comics published by DC be considered part of their multiverse
No, we don't consider Sheriff of Babylon, Transmetropolitan or Punk Rock Jesus to be in the DCU, it would be just as offensive to shove any of these self-contained works into an event.
>Would Moore have been explicitly disrespecting the original creators if he'd gotten to use Charlton characters like he wanted?
He created new characters based off of Charlton, it's not the same thing. It's why (as I said in that very post) Pax Americana is an acceptable Watchmen story. It doesn't present itself as some sort of prequel or sequel to someone else's story, it's another writers take in a respectful way.
>>83187680
>if you don't like drinking this shit that must mean you are a piss drinker!!
I have never in my life read mainline Marvel apart from some Thanos saga stuff because I fucking hate mainline Marvel, but even they are above this.
>>83187644
1) Considering it was published under their imprint, they are indeed DC's characters produced as work for hire.
2) Powers is published under Icon, which is creator owned. Watchmen was not. Also Watchmen was already expanded upon in Before Watchmen, newfag
>>83187818
Above what?
>>83187818
What's with you and human excrement?
>>83187818
>No, we don't consider Sheriff of Babylon, Transmetropolitan or Punk Rock Jesus to be in the DCU
Who's "we"?
The watchmen characters were cool enough that I'd be interested in seeing them show up in another book.
>dont mess with Alan Moore HES THE BEST
literally a filthy casual's opinion
>>83187881
They are above inserting a self-contained work from another universe into their mainline events against the author's wishes just because it got popular.
>>83187874
>1) Considering it was published under their imprint, they are indeed DC's characters produced as work for hire.
No, Moore transferred the copyright to DC and they broke the contractual agreement by selling unapproved merchandise when the movie came out. He has a legal right to reclaim his copyright much like Siegel and Shuster did with Superman.
>2) Powers is published under Icon, which is creator owned. Watchmen was not. Also Watchmen was already expanded upon in Before Watchmen, newfag
I know it was you cretin, but at least Before Watchmen titles were (apart from Nite Owl) bland and inoffensive and basically just retelling what we already knew. I hate before watchmen but I hate this a lot more.
>>83187680
>tfw love Marvel movies and DC comics, hate Marvel comics and DC movies
Come at me, breh.
>>83187985
Do you consider Sheriff of Babylon, Transmetropolitan or Punk Rock Jesus to be in the DCU?
>>83187644
>1) It's not their characters, they actually broke their deal with Alan Moore a long time ago but he's too much of a fucking hippy to sue.
That's just a lie. The contract may have been dickish, but Moore signed it and DC owns the characters as long as the book is in print.
And again, they were just alternate takes on established characters.
You're just like the thousands of others pretentious douchebags who take Watchmen way too seriously because casuals have called it the greatest comic ever for the last thirty years.
>>83186996
Looks cool. If they do it right I might actually buy a few.
>>83188100
There are plenty of unaccounted for earths.
>>83188123
kill yourself 2bh
>Alan Moore's fans getting mad on his behalf not realizing he doesn't give a shit anymore
>Getting offended on Moore's behalf even though he's proven he's fully capable of getting more than offended enough on his own if he desires
>>83188175
Waiting on you, Mr. "gets offended for other people"
>>83188100
Pretty sure DC doesn't own the characters.
And if they do, it's a big multiverse.
"Kid Eternity Meets Punk Rock Jesus," why not?
>>83188058
hes significantly better than Johns and its disrespectful to anyone to write a sequel that presents itself as canon to their self-contained story.
>>83187644
Welcome to comics, we have had Avengers vs DC, Spawn and Batman, Batman and Judge Dredd, Dredd and the Main Man, the point I am getting at is comics are open game to everything, thinking Watchmen wouldn't be touched is hilarious.
Also you preaching of respect to Alan, nigga you ain't an art critic or some big almighty connoisseur of fine arts, you probably had mcdonalds today. The thing is they are comics, to most people they are for kids, and no matter how adult themed they are, they will always just be comics.
So just sit back and enjoy the new thing with fav characters, or ignore it.
>>83188058
>Taking characters who were specifically created to deconstruct the medium and put them in the world they were created to deconstruct, even though the world they were created for, specifically with all the cold war fears, is integral to their character
When you eat shit do you enjoy it, or just tell yourself you do?I agree that there's nothing wrong with revisiting Watchmen, but to take them out of their world defeats the point
>>83186996
>I care about Watchmen
>>83187644
>It's not about Alan Moore's status, it's about showing respect to the people who made their famous stories
So... the same sort of respect Alan Moore's shown to other writers in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen? I mean, that's some mighty respect he gave to J. K. Rowling when he made Harry Potter the Anti-Christ. Or how about Ian Fleming? Or Harry Enton? Can't forgot about Luis Senarens and Edward Stratemeyer, too.
Oh wait, it's OK when Alan Moore does it but not OK when DC supposedly does it?
You seem like a smart guy but your fanatic love of Alan Moore is blinding you from the fact that he's as guilty as the same thing what you're accusing DC of. Not to mention if you really wanna be brutally honest... the whole fucked up situation with Watchmen and him all comes down to him making a naive and stupid mistake.
He has no one but himself to blame for signing a shitty contract. A company has one goal: to make as money as possible and do it as legally as possible. That's sad, brutal, and unfair but so is reality. If Alan's stupid enough to sign a contract with a loophole like what the Watchmen contract has, he has only himself to blame. He should've gotten himself a lawyer to go over the damn thing.
>>83188109
>That's just a lie. The contract may have been dickish, but Moore signed it and DC owns the characters as long as the book is in print.
not true, read into it. he has legal precedent to get his characters back because DC broke a contractual agreement.
>And again, they were just alternate takes on established characters.
And there are alternate takes on his established characters in Pax Americana that Johns could have used if he cared about showing respect to another creator. Analogues of characters are a respectful way to do this, it doesn't present itself as canon.
>You're just like the thousands of others pretentious douchebags who take Watchmen way too seriously because casuals have called it the greatest comic ever for the last thirty years.
It's not my favourite I just like it a lot, and btw if someone wrote a comic about Stargirl getting fucked up the ass and DC published it as canon you would get annoyed lol. You seem like the kind of guy who isn't very intelligent and whenever someone criticizes something you enjoyed they are 'pretentious'. Probably a correlation between low IQ and liking Johns.
>>83186996
I did it with Flashpoint now i just torrent shit, i only bought Multiversity.
All the stuff i buy now is either indie. Morrison's or old trades. I quitted Marvel during civil war.
>>83188205
I'm actually offended that DC thinks I am stupid enough to clap at this lackluster story just because it has a Watchmen badge at the end, and yes I do actually care about creators getting mistreated by big companies because it's fucking rude. As I said to the other guy you would likely get upset if someone wrote a really disrespectful Stargirl story.
>>83188186
>Thinking Moore is genuinely seriously offended
He's legit doing it for that bullshit artistic integrity wank. If you actually listen to him talk about it, he's very tongue in cheek about the whole thing, its just his sarcasm and warmth gets lost when its written down
Is this always the same guy or something?
A myriad theories have been presented as to why they're using the Watchmen, but no.
>hurrrrr they're pissing on Alan Moore and his snake god altar
I'm not ecstatic about their inclusion necessarily, but the direction this could lead has potential. All I want is Rebirth to be just as good as its been hyped up to be and I'll be content, Watchmen or no Watchmen.
>>83186996
>kept reading after Before Watchmen
>somehow this is too much for him
top wew
>>83188224
because not every story needs to be a fucking IP ready to be farmed you corporate dick sucker
>>83188457
What about rebirth disrespects the Watchmen?
>>83187818
>No, we don't consider Sheriff of Babylon, Transmetropolitan or Punk Rock Jesus to be in the DCU
Yeah, because half of those books' rights are owned by the creators. Alan Moore never owned shit from Watchmen. Watchmen was simply the by-product of Wen Lein's attempt to put the Charlton heroes on the post-Crisis universe. He got Moore to write the title, and gave him freedom to do what he wanted. So much freedom, the book ended up becoming what we have today.
>>83186996
OP show me your physical copy of Watchmen. Here's mine. I dont mind this story line at all. Now show me proof you bought and paid for Watchmen since you love it so much and hold it in such high regard.
>>83188326
If you don't have any respect for comics as a medium and think it's just funny picture books then please never post here again. You are a philistine and should probably kill yourself. And no, the long running series Judge Dredd that has been open game for anyone to write from even the first two stories is not the same thing.
>>83188378
To be fair to him, the contract said that the rights would revert back to him when Watchmen went out of print. No comics remained in print back then, the whole idea of the trade paper back started with The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen which came out around the same time and after he signed those contracts
>>83187621
>Would Moore have been explicitly disrespecting the original creators if he'd gotten to use Charlton characters like he wanted?
Watchmen arose out of his work on Miracleman, a forgotten character he'd revamped. Because of that revamp, the property was considered to have a value again and a protracted series of legal problems eventually arose.
As a result of a separate case involving Neil Gaiman and Todd McFarlane - who, over the character Angela, tried to rely on the "work for hire" argument beloved of publishers since the 1930s, but which has rarely stood up to scrutiny in the courts - Gaiman discovered that in fact another copyright McFarlane claimed to own, Miracleman, was in fact never the property of the people who he thought he'd bought it from. He therefore did not own it; it was, and had always been since the dissolving of L. Miller & Son Ltd., the property of creator Mick Anglo.
On learning this Moore immediately dropped his objections to Marvel Comics or any other party buying the Marvelman/Miracleman rights that he held (as creator of later works) on condition that all moneys from the sale be paid to Mick Anglo, and to his estate after his death. This was two years before Mick Anglo died and we can only assume that, had arguments like >>83187874 been examined with appropriate scrutiny decades before - as McFarlane should have had done before "buying" the rights - Anglo would have been rather better off in his final decades.
Creator-owned doesn't mean shit even at Image. It never did. The only way you get recognition is if you sue for it, which Moore has stated he doesn't feel the need to do over Watchmen - but it seems probable that he could indeed shut down DC's Watchmen over that breach of contract.
You're talking about a guy who'd rather smoke a big fat joint in his comfortable home than go to court and talk to assholes about shit he signed half a lifetime ago. Wouldn't we all? He doesn't need the money or the hassle.
>>83188532
Bonus points if Alan Moore signed it.
DC has been great for the last 5 years
>>83188366
Because it's a reconstruction.
>>83188641
Definitely not true, but they've been upping their game for like a year and a half.
>>83188378
Did he work with the Harry Potter publishers to create League of Extraordinary Gentleman and present it as an actual sequel? LOEG is SPECIFICALLY ABOUT taking classic (public domain) characters out of their contexts and shoving them into weird mashup adventures. DC is disrespecting a man who WORKED FOR THEM IN LIVING MEMORY and wrote a comic that made them fuckloads of money, it is not a nice thing to do. J.K. Rowling has also never spoken out against people writing around her stories, in fact she has encouraged it.
>>83188667
But the characters are so integrally tied to cold war fears. If you remove them from a world where that is an issue, they cease to be those characters and become something that looks like them, but isn't
>>83188457
>implying the Watchmen badge is the good part
>not Legion, Johnny Thunder, Atom and one of the best Wally/Barry scenes ever
>>83186996
Rebirth #1 handled this much better than I expected, so I'm kind of interested in where this goes.
Also, with Priest, King, Ostrander and Orlando on Rebirth, there's no way I'm dropping DC anytime soon. To be honest, I'm kind of glad for Marvel's Civil War event, cause I'm not really interested in it, which means I won't be spending more than usual on books since I'll be skipping all the event tie-ins.
>>83186996
If not for DC shafting him with Watchmen, do you reckon he'd of remained working in the industry with Marvel and/or DC?
>>83188491
Johns killed 3 people in one week which is not consistent with his character.
The story is a cynical deconstruction of the superhero comicbook, it is disrespectful to turn it into a superhero comicbook crossover event bonanza.
The story is self-contained and not intended to be expanded upon, it is disrespectful to try and write what happened next and publish it as the official canon against the creator's wishes.
>>83188716
This, with the force of a million clenched tumblrina anuses.
Call me when Moore writes something not shit.
>>83188708
I'd argue that that is truer of DKR, which is really a period piece. Watchmen plays on more core human emotions, which are still very relevant today. It wouldn't take much work to rewrite it to be set in the modern day.
>>83188769
>The story is a cynical deconstruction of the superhero comicbook, it is disrespectful to turn it into a superhero comicbook crossover event bonanza.
Moore has mistreated other writers stories his entire career.
>>83188567
On one hand, I'm willing to concede that since I did forget that aspect of the conversation.
But on the other... it's still a huge fucking loophole and one that would've been pointed out if Alan had taken some time and money and had a lawyer consulted on the damn contract. Anyone of them would've pointed it out and said 'Hey, this can be exploited!'
>>83188705
In other words, it's OK when Alan does it and not OK when DC does it. Nice to know.
Guys, either this is just your typical troll bait thread or this guy has his head up his ass with his delusional love of Alan Moore.
>>83188366
>Making a flagship character of an iconic deconstruction the main antagonist of a reconstruction is somehow a bad idea.
>Making a character from a book that caused a tonal shift in the dc universe the antagonist of an event that tries to go back to the tone watchmen rejected is a bad idea
You really shouldn't be questioning the inteligence of other people here.
>>83188675
Some books were good early into the NU52 (Aquaman), others after about 20 issues and others picked up later
There was always a decent amount of quality
>>83188769
The story isn't beng expanded on. This is after the fact. Its not a sequel. Please see >>83188532
You stupid fucking hipster scum.
>the story is a cynical deconstruction of the superhero genre
Exactly, and THIS story is a deconstruction of that deconstruction and the terrible influence it has had on superhero comics.
>>83188463
>has potential.
For a new movie directed by Hack Snyder and produced by Geoff Johns. Watchmen is considered to be the best comic by normies so this will attract hordes of them, Johns is just making excuses as to why he is using them, "comics are too gritty because of watchmen" my ass, just check his latest JL issue to see how edgy and violent HIS stories are, shit, just read this issue to see how he treats his OC character Pandora the imporant.
...too bad Captain Hydra will still have more presence in both sales and the media.
>>83187040
Not them, but I stopped back when Nu52 raped Jaime.
Before Watchmen reaffirmed the decision to drop them.
This is what convinced me to never give them another chance.
>>83188828
In his ongoings? It's not the same thing. He doesn't complain about Snyder's Swamp thing because it doesn't matter that it doesn't have much to do with his Swamp Thing. He never ever in his career wrote a sequel to someone else's self-contained passion project.
>>83188769
>Self contained and not intended to be expanded upon
Nothing ever ends, anon.
Also I'm pretty sure that the same could be said about the characters that Moore used for League of extraordinary gentlemen.
>>83186996
Yes, I got into DC view New 52 and don't want to be burdened by a bunch of convulted old comics. I'm done and so are several of my friends.
>>83188857
It is not a deconstruction. It is rebuilding what was deconstructed.Johns has said it himself.
>>83186996
>he doesnt realize the whole point of Rebirth is Watchmen was a mistake for the industry
>>83188877
Please, please pick up the new Giffen Blue Beetle when it comes out, even for just one issue
Jamie and Ted: Together again for the first time
>>83188574
This.
I honestly doubt gives a single shit about it.
You would have to literally shove the comic in his face and hold a gun to his head for him to even entertain the notion of reading Rebirth.
And even if he did read it, I don't think he'd do much except feel a little more bitter on the inside, which is not hard to do. He probably gets more bitter on his way to the grocery store.
Here is a post for whichever fucking inbred tried to discredit me by saying i dont own the comic
>>83188951
>missing the point this hard
It's not a criticism of Watchmen, but of the lesson's everyone else learned from it. Which, ironically enough, is a point Moore has tried to make many times.
>>83188768
I imagine he would have kept doing DC stuff, yeah.
Would have probably put out a lot for Vertigo.
>>83188841
Yes, but it was an editorial disaster. Bad decisions coming from higher-ups at the last minute was practically a constant, and big, terrible stories would come and go.
Remember the Wildstorm integration and the creative team changes?
Oh Christ, remember the Deamonite event they were clearly building up?
Good comics happened, but it was by luck as much as skill, and even they had the stink of editorial on them.
>>83188951
Not a mistake. But what a lot of people got from it was "It's good because it's dark". Also Johns has expressed that as good as it was it does not represent what superheroes should be.
>>83188996
Somebody's mad. Also, what a shitty cover.
>>83188862
It's okay that you've made up your mind about this.
I like Watchmen, too, but I think maybe for different reasons. I'm gonna wait and see what kinda soup the cook out of this, but I can promise you, I'm not gonna be eternally butt-blasted because they used characters based on other characters.
>>83188920
I got into comics in 2013. While new52 created an easy jump-in point, there's no rason to ignore what came before it.
>>83188947
Watchmen was 20 years ago anon, Nu52 just happened in 2011, there is hundreds of stories between those 2, are you saying they were all gritty and dark? Shit, they only thing Johns is doing is bring back characters that were retconed by the reboot, and that was Watchmen's fault why?
>>83188962
Why bother supporting it, they'll just fuck it up again in time.
I'd be better off mailing Giffen and the artists checks for the issues I pirate.
>>83188523
>Alan Moore never owned shit from Watchmen
this is not true, you should do your research
>>83188998
>>83189020
Thats a mistake. The influence it had on the industry was negative. It had a negative impact on superhero comics. The superhero industry, not the comics industry, would have been better of if it was never made.
>>83188109
I mean Watchmen is pretty great
Not for the reasons casuals think it is, but still
>>83188817
The entire plot of Watchmen revolves around Ozy trying to bring about world peace because Doc Manhattens very existence amped up cold war fears given that he's a walking WMD
Hatred of commies is a central part of Rorshcach's character
Increased tension with Russia had turned America violently towards the right, leading to society wanting a ban on masks. Nite Owl and Silk Spectre's entire arc is them lying to themselves about how they don't need the capes when really its the only thing that doesn't make them feel impotent, literally in Nite Owls case
The Cold War is central to the book, I'd say even more so than in The Dark Knight Returns, though it's definitely a big part of that book too
>>83188996
>Bought within the last couple years
>>83189051
its a dustcover with the original issue 1 cover underneath you fuck bucket
>>83188996
>that awful cover
>bought it after he saw the movie
My sides
>>83189067
>20 years
Check your math
>A single page with The Comedian's button
>A couple pages of Adrian and Doc talking off panel
Wow, it's nothing
>>83188996
Come on, >>83189051 >>83189099 this is like basic trolling. It doesn't matter if you own a copy or not, they're just shilling for Johns.
>>83189092
Yeah, but there's still heavy tensions with Russia today, which would certainly be amped up if we had a Doc Manhattan.
Rorschach could be ranting about Islamic terrorists and the threat they supposedly pose without it changing too much.
And who says the American left wouldn't be heavily for a ban on vigilantes?
>>83189184
But don't you see? Even MENTIONING it is LITERALLY RAPING everything Alan Moore has ever written!
>>83188963
No this isn't bait, I and others only care about New 52 onwards, DC has tossed us aside for their aging fanbase who only like to sit around and complain. This is a terrible decision on DC's part and it is going to cost them in the long run, screenshot this and look back in a years time, you know it's true.
To us "normies" DC comics just went full bullshit again and back to being a confusing approachable mess, it has nothing left to offer.
>>83189150
Fuck you, i still live in 2006.
>>83189106
Hey, buddy, I'm not insulting you, okay? I just happen to not like that cover.
>>83189147
I finally got around to getting my own copy literally just before they changed it from the rad close of up of the smiley face to the shitty new one
Feels good man
>>83189226
It's a slippery slope, bro. We're gonna get Nite Owl vs Batman, and Ozy rivaling Lex as the smartest man in the DCU! Also, the Comedian will be in charge of the Suicid Squad!
>>83189232
Kek no one cares about normies faggot
>>83186996
I know how it ends.
DC:
Is Morrison writing it?
Yes: Will buy
No: No thanks
>>83189226
Well Alan Moore did love to inject his stories with rape and wrote several stories almost exclusively about rape, like Lost Girls.
So does that mean this is raping the rapist in some metaphorical way?
>>83189232
But it's still the New 52 universe, except now, the reboot was messed up by Doc M, the classic Teen Titans were a thing and the JSA was a thing. That's all that was changed.
>>83189232
It's still the same continuity, just without the branding and with a few characters from the old continuity introduced
>>83189232
they aren't even undoing the new52. everything that happened still happened
>>83189287
Honestly, I would 100% buy an Ennis-written story about the Watchmen characters.
>>83189232
I agree with the confusing part but i doubt DC is not going to do his homework and introduce properly the old stories and characters. The only thing that bothers me about this is the watchmen thing, other than that i think it will be great to see other characters and stories long forgotten being developed again.
>>83189294
Therefore, by the transitive property of rape, Bueno Excellente will save the multiverse
>DC is so totally incapable of producing interesting new stories that they're bringing shit from a totally unrelated work into their main universe as the reason behind their big reboot as click bait, good writing or the source material be damned.
Cape comics are a joke.
I haven't even read Watchmen and even I can tell this will be a bad decision in the long run.
>>83189367
It's like Longshot saves the Marvel Universe, only with slightly less rape
>>83186996
As always, I only read when Grant Morrison writes something. I don't care about being a "casual" fan because it means I read more good comics than bad comics, unlike the "hardcore" fans.
>>83189206
I get what you're saying, but it doesn't fit together as well
The cold war is a unifying thing behind all the characters.
To say Russia today is fine, but they aren't communist
To say Islamic terorists is fine, but they aren't hidden in plain sight like communists are to a paranoid fuck like Rorschach
While the left could work as a force wanting the removal of masks, the idea behind it being the right is their supposed desire to turn the clocks back to a simpler better time before all this shit happened works a little better.
Plus the right having a problem with people dressing up in gaudy costumes makes more sense.
And also having the right want the ban ties back into the cold war fears
>>83189379
>totally unrelated
Watchmen is actually a comic in the DC Universe
>>83189379
>hasn't even read Watchmen
What the fuck are you doing with your life, faggot? I'm fine with Rebirth, but I can still agree that it's fucking great and a must-read.
>>83189401
H- how much rape was there in that?
>>83189110
This
>>83186996
>2014
>Start reading comics
>Read some Marvel, Judge Dredd, other stuff
>More than that read DC
>Start with Crisis on Infinite earths as a jump-in point
>Read almost everything DC published from 1985 up to Infinite Crisis
>Start running out of DC stuff to read, consider starting new 52
>Rebirth appears on the horizon
mfw I can't wait for rebirth
>>83189417
>Islamic terorists aren't hidden in plain sight like communists are to a paranoid fuck like Rorschach
I want you to pause for a moment and think about this statement a little more
>>83189367
Sounds like a solid plan to me.
>>83189417
Alright, I'll concede you have a point, but I don't think removing the characters from their universe inherently damages them. Especially Manhattan. With Rorschach, or Nite Owl, or especially Comedian you'd probably be right, but I think Manhattan can work in other contexts too.
>>83186996
You are going to follow Young Animal though, riiiight?
>>83189496
I mean in the sense that islamic terrorists tend to be asian.
Commies can be anyone of any race gender religion or creed.
When I say they aren't hidden in plain sight like communists, I mean to the extent communists are.
So how much does it pay to shill for Marvel on the internet?
>>83189456
>hasn't even read Watchmen
I'm not avoiding it or anything, don't get me wrong. I'd like to read it but every time I remember I haven't I don't have money for it, and I generally try to avoid pirating good comics if I can get them in a book format.
I splurged money on all six volumes of Akira a month or two ago. I'll get to Watchmen eventually.
>>83187308
Who cares if they disrepect Moore? He clearly doesn't respect them and it was work for hire he did based on their characters.
Almost everyone likes Watchmen. If Alan Moore never declared it should be standalone everyone would happily read more stories about these characters. They're cool.
If it ends up being good, then it'll be worth it. If not, we can bitch and moan and then eventually ignore it.
>>83189598
Ah, I know that feel all too well. Fair enough then.
>>83189367
If Bueno Excellente exposed himself to tachyons, he really could beat Dr. Manhattan. Big Blue would never see him coming.
>>83188708
>they cease to be those characters and become something that looks like them, but isn't
You mean like every reboot and interdimensional crossover story ever has done with the characters involved?
Watchmen characters ain't special snowflakes, they don't get to be exempt from the rules of being fictional characters in the comic book medium just because their story is more popular than most or just because a grumpy old British man who hasn't shaved in a decade is your man-crush.
>>83189636
>Big Blue would never see him coming.
Heh
>>83188947
In order to reconstruct what Watchmen deconstructred, you have to tear Watchmen down.
This should be kinda fucking obvious.
>>83189147
i have never seen it
>>83186996
>Anyone else dropping DC?
I'm not, but my pull list is getting shorter.
>Caring about disrespecting Moore.
You poor sap.
>ITT: R-Rebirth will be good we swear
It's like nobody ever learns anythingThat being said, I'll give the new Supes run a shot
>>83186996
Out of curiosity, how much does Disney actually pay you to make these threads? What's the workload like? Do you consider it a viable source of income? I'd love to get into professional shilling, myself, but only if it's worth the effort.
>>83189738
well yeah, they're not putting out as many books
>>83189769
>Rebirth will be shit!
>But I'll keep reading Jurgens AND Tomasi
you're making my brain hurt
>>83189067
It' better explained in the story. The influence of watchmen had been there for several years before flashpoint, but it was after that it finally jumped the shark, when dc took away elements like legacy characters and relationships and the only thing they had left was edgyness.
>>83189767
>Go ahead and shit on one of the classics of the medium some more I don't mind
>>83189830
>Shit on
>With 3 whole pages of nothing
Let it be disrespected first.
>>83189769
>ITT: R-Rebirth will be good we swear
I am actually now wondering how people reacted to new 52 before it came out.
>>83189716
Not necessarily. Think of the superhero genre like, I dunno, a car engine. A deconstruction, like Watchmen, takes apart that engine, examining why it works, and pointing out the flaws inside it. A reconstruction, like, say, All-Star Superman, puts the pieces back together, conscious of the flaws, and says: "Sure, it doesn't work perfectly, but it's still a damn good engine". Basically, what I'm clumsily trying to express is that deconstructionism and reconstructionism are two approaches that, when well handled, can learn from each other and build of each other instead of contradicting each other and tearing each other down.
>>83189598
Have you tried going to the library, mine has it.
>>83189683
Oh you misunderstand me, I in no way think that they are special snowflakes who will be exempt from the inevitable tide of the comics industry
I do however think that even if it is a futile effort, one should rage against the dilution of characters, especially when they are put into the very stories they are a deconstruction of.
Because even though you don't have to read it, or any comics with these characters in if one were to be that autistic about it, if you don't complain when DC or Marvel or whomever attempt to feed you shit, they'll try to do it again thinking you like it.
"Never surrender, even in the face of armageddon" or whatever the fuck the quote is
>>83189805
What the hell do you want from me?
If they want to restart, then show me they can fucking restart. I want to like Superman again dammit.
>>83190006
they're not restarting
>>83187308
Was JK Rowling OK with her character being the Antichrist and blamed for modern literature's downfall?
>>83189891
yeah deconstruction is supposed to be a tool for analyzing things to gain insight, not a way to say "here's an edgy explanation of why the things you love are SHIIIIIIT"
>>83189287
Six Pack seriously has a chance against the fucker, if we're going by the fact that his powers are pure heroism, alcoholism, andbeing the drunk in "real" New York who's passed out hallucinations are the entire DC multiverse, Manhattan included.
>>83189851
>Using the Watchman name as a gimmick and clickb8 bucks while missing the point of the book isn't shitting on it
neo-/co/ everyone
>>83190103
it's ok when Moore does it
>>83190058
You know what I mean
>>83190120
>I dont like it
>therefore it's gimmicks and clickbait
actual neo-/co/, everyone+
>>83190119
wait, so he's like the psycho pirate from animal man?
>New52 was handled awfully
>this somehow won't
I can't wait to see the weird mashup of putting everything back to normal and what's happened in the time that New52 has been out
>>83190145
well I don't know why you'd expect Superman to be good "again" when it's being written by Tomasi and Jurgens, while implying that Morrison, Pak, andparts ofYang weren't good
>>83190165
Alright. Explain to me how isn't then, explain how this was an organic inclusion to the storyline and DC universe and not a desperate attempt to get attention and use the Watchman name?
>>83190120
DC had no intention of marketing the Watchmen thing and actively told people not to look for spoilers. They only caved after the Reddit leak. That's not very clickbaity.
>>83189989
>Because even though you don't have to read it, or any comics with these characters in if one were to be that autistic about it, if you don't complain when DC or Marvel or whomever attempt to feed you shit, they'll try to do it again thinking you like it.
This
I don't get the "you don't have to read and complain, bro! The original story is safe, bro!" excuse. I mean, i get it, but it's hypocritical, where was that attitude when everyone was bitching about the New52, BvS or anything? Bitching about things is the very reason we're getting Rebirth
>>83186996
No, Rebirth got me to start following. I couldn't care less about Watchmen, but fucking Wally West is back!
>>83190287
What? You don't need to advertise a big twist to turn a profit out of it, Marvel didn't need to advertise Hydra-Cap to make people talk about it, Disney didn't need to advertise Solo's death to make the new SW "shocking"
>>83190165
Not that guy, but if you don't think the whole "shocking reveal" at the end that WE WATCHMEN now wasn't done for click bait in a vain attempt to generate hype then you're deluded
>>83186996
I dropped DC right after Flashpoint
>>83190273
>Watchmen is the seminal cape comic deconstruction
>arguably started the Big 2 on the path that eventually led to New 52
>Rebirth is a specific pushback against the failings of the New 52
>an almost-literal reconstruction of the DC universe
it's ~*symbolic*~
>>83189889
Well, Nu52 did have flashpoint preceding it, which wasn't the worst thing ever. So it was kinda mixed.
Once we saw the trainwreck though..... it was pretty obvious how shit it was gonna be.
Lol get fucked.
All of you.
>>83190505
I might go to an LCS tomorrow and get it myself
>>83190505
The fucking sold out of the other cover at my LCS too in so pissed.
>>83190260
I don't expect it to be good.
I "want" it be, I wanted a lot of things to be good from DC, still salty over Darkseid War but whatever.
Point is, I have no expectations for this. I have no reason to be hyped about anything Rebirth does. The only reason I'm picking the books I am is out of some misplaced optimism that MAYBE I'm wrong and all this hoopla is justified
>>83190120
>getting offended on someone else's behalf
Tumblr everyone
>>83190536
Dude I called three stores today. Sold out.
>>83190461
So there's a fascinating new narrative that cape comics NEVER recovered from the edgefest revolution that started after DKR and Watchmen, and that only now DC is very bravely acting against such pervasively depressing times
>>83190573
Fine, I'll buy World War Hulk
>>83190598
Why not Gwenpool instead?
>>83190505
>THE JUSTICE LEAGUE
>ROBIN
>SUPERSON
>BAT-girl...? ok
>Is that the Flash? Why is he black?
>Wait, why is Harley there? Isn't she a villain?
>>83190611
Oh, I'll definitely be doing that
>>83190615
Lol now post the current marvel now roster so I can fucking laugh at you.
>>83190540
well there's at least three or four guaranteed-good books, depending on how much David Finch is a turnoff for you
>>83190555
>Criticism is now being 'offended' and acting like tumblr
>>83190615
>>83190647
Gotu family
>>83190647
I was just joking anon, those last three just seem out of place
>>83190721
What the fuck is marvel even doing anymore?
>>83190615
>Is that the Flash? Why is he black?
>BAT-girl...? ok
I can understand you being upset at Harley, but you can't really be upset about bat girl and one of many flashes who have existed
And at the same time, you're totally fine with Supersons
what's wrong with you?
>>83190721
Oh look all the white people are back. Bet it was OK with people who complained about Kent, Ted, Wally, and Ray being back.
>>83190816
that's the old Marvel NOW! roster, the new one hasn't been released yet
>>83190764
I mean, Damian and Supertyke, they're there with their dads, they have a reason to be there, they're fine
who invited Batgirl to hang out with the Justice League? Why not use Barry?
>>83190711
Thinking that your feelings matter is acting like tumblr.
If you don't like Rebirth or think is not the right direction for DC that's fine( just be coherent and don't buy it), but the only person who has the right to be offended is Moore and he doesn't care( not anymore at least).
>>83189636
>exposed himself to tachyons
He never misses a chance to expose himself to anything, or anyone
>>83186996
Yeah this is really making me consider abandoning the medium altogether. As a lifelong fan I've tolerated DC's terrible decisions for the past few years but now I feel bad supporting them in any way (namely buying old reprints of stuff I like). I just got a shelf for all of my trades and was proud of how they all looked on display. Now with recent developments and the way people have responded to them I'm actually somewhat embarrassed of owning them, which is something I thought I had gotten over a long time ago. The constant stupidity is bringing the stigma back to comics being a garbage medium. My hope that the ship would be righted has been completely snuffed out. Thanks for everyone at DC for making me sad for once enjoying their wonderful output.
>>83189989
>>83190975
you realize Rorschach was meant to be super-unreasonable and wrong when he said that, right?
>>83191077
>the medium
cape comics are a genre, not a medium
>>83189683
Kill yourself you fucking idiot, not every comic book has to be in the dc universe fucking hell. Does Jimmy Corrigan need to have a Batman crossover because of some bullshit you made up about the laws of comics? Does the cast of We3 need to come back and steal 10 years away from Krypto the Superdog because they arent allowed to be "special snowflakes"? Alan moores characters were meant to stand alone and DC literally does not have the legal right to keep printing this shit, they only get away with it because Moore doesnt like lawyers. The contract specifically required Moores approval for further merchandise, they have as much right to fuck with his story as they do to add transmet into their universe.
People like you can spout as much as you want about LOEG but if any one of the writers behind those characters asked moore not to use them he wouldnt, he had the respect and decency to hand over his miracleman work to mick anglo because unlike geoff johns he is not a corporate hack and has some fucking respect and principles for those who paved the way for him.
>>83191040
>yfw Manhattan may have been responsible for bringing Six Pack back into Earth 1
>>83191079
I don't think he was at all. The point of the book is the deconstruction of the superhero genre, and with that comes its primitive view on right or wrong.
Is he wrong for sticking to his ideals and believing in the truth? I personally think ultimately yes, but he wasn't "meant to be wrong" any more than Ozy was "meant to be right" for killing all those people
Its supposed to be morally grey.
>>83189790
I also hate how disrespectful bendis is towards the work of his peers, i have made threads about it before but it is not a topic of interest at the moment. Please stop diverting the subject to marvel under some false assumption that anyone dissatisfied with dc is in the marvel fanclub
>>83191147
>Does Jimmy Corrigan need to have a Batman crossover
didn't he though? Like, fairly recently?
>>83188996
>post movie edition
>how to lose credibility 101
>>83189851
Dr Manhattan evaporated 3 people in the same week, at least one of which did nothing wrong.
>>83186996
That's because you have shit taste.
So?
Were you also assblasted over Martian Manhunter in Sandman?
>>83191111
I'd like to add the pedantic arguing about continuity and semantics over an objectively desperate and rote idea from a company that has repeatedly demonstrated it doesn't care about trying to be anything more than a financial corporation and places no emphasis on creativity and figuring out the somewhat simple task of how to tell good stories in the medium it helped define has gone from being a tedious toleration to something I can't even stomach anymore.
>>83190171
You know this will probably still have me be less bitter than Steve Rogers AGENT OF HYDRA
>>83191347
ok anon
send me your books if you don't want them anymore
>>83186996
Jesus is DC so desperate now they're trying to bring Watchmen into one of their shit crossovers?
>>83191274
Shut the fuck up, Owlman, you did everything wrong.
>>83186996
>Droping Marvel, Dc and the movie shit.
>Becaming Image and Dark Horse fag
>>83191246
JIMMY Corrigan not Jim Corrigan
>>83191428
And people in this thread are unironically defending them.
>>83191457
>>83186996
Rebirth was outright beautiful though.
>>83191428
>>83191546Hail Hydra
>>83191323
better analogy would be Daniel in JLA or Death in Action Comics
>>83191610
Ikr, it's almost as if both the big 2 are shitty companies surviving on cheap gimmicks
>>83191274
You don't know he killed Pandora or that Metron is dead
>>83191610
The red skull has psychic powers dumbass, that memory (with the woman dressed IN RED) was obviously fucking implanted jesus christ. Thanos with a gun is a much better thing to make fun of
>>83191693
It was literally in the rorschach pose
I can't tell if people who are for Rebirth genuinely like it or are just DCfanboys and Wallyfags who'd like anything if it meant he was coming back
>>83191766
I'm for it because the creative teams look really good
except on Superman, but that's half to be expected
>>83188366
>characters specifically created to deconstruct
incorrect
>>83186996
Im just going to bother with vertigo.
>>83191716
Red Skull with Xaviers powers at all is retarded
>>83191766
Rebirth gave me more than just Wally. It is an 80 page mission statement more than anything. Was happy to see all the missing characters and relationships.
>>83191819
They were, they are literally nothing like the charlston characters.
>>83191833
Which belongs to DC
>>83191860
Rorschach and Question are both right wing mouth pieces and Ted and Dan are nearly dead on the same person.
>>83191860
Rorschach was pretty much the Question but cranked up a bit
fuck, O'Neil Question had an issue all about how Vic used to be like Rorschach but is now glad he isn't as much
>>83191906
Dan is basically Ted stuck in the real world, with a fetish.
>>83191709
It was a very beautiful and touching way to bring back Wally which was executed really well.
The story also merges post-New52 with pre-New52 in a way that allows it to draw on strengths from both without completely dismissing anything from either. In a neat way that makes sense and doesn't feel hamfisted.
The very narrative itself following the perspective of a character fluctuating outside of space and time was both an interesting and effective method of covering the characters and events related to the upcoming arc.
And I really like the Watchmen. But this doesn't destroy the Watchmen by any means, it will just be another rendition of them with the old Watchmen still existing just fine. There are several renditions of Superman and other charcters that I outright dislike but it doesn't stop me from loving Superman.
Besides, I honestly believe that it is an interesting opportunity for Watchmen and main DC to complement eachother for better or worse. I am almost certain I'll see things I'll dislike or even outright disapprove of, but I also figure I'll see several things involving them I'll genuinely find interesting. And I repeat, it's not like they're ruining Watchmen or anything. It's not like they'll start to print new Watchmen ongoings and run the damn thing to the ground to the point where it has no soul left. It is but yet another multiversity crossover like the many others before this one.
Just you wait one they the big two will make an huge crossover event that will be the new crisis event for BOTH once Marvel and DC don't know what else to do.
>>83191927
Question is the more extreme one, he'd kill you for lying
>>83192262
One day one of the two will buy the other. Probably not anytime soon. Perhaps not even in my own lifetime.
But one of them will outlive the other, and at that point they may buy the rights of the other and crossovers will merge.
>>83191709
Shill is officially a meaningless word, like Autist, Cuck, and a myriad of other terms
>>83187100
We've also seen Ozymandias and there's a possibility Gotham and Gotham Girl are Laurie and Dan.
>>83192498
You're an idiot
WB and Disney will not ever need to sell DC/Marvel
>>83192498
Could you even imagine Batman in the Marvel world?
He'd want to slap everyone's shit.
>>83192609
Mr Oz is black you retard he isn't Ozymandias.
>>83192641
Nothing lasts forever. DC and Marvel won't still be a thing the last days of man.
And before both of them inevitable perish, one will probably have absorbed the other somehow.
>>83192106
>But this doesn't destroy the Watchmen by any means, it will just be another rendition of them with the old Watchmen still existing just fine.
Be honest: How depressing does it feel to live every day as the only sane man on /co/?
>>83192705
Ozymandias was at the very end
>>83192106
Yeah, I don't hate this, it seems interesting
>>83192751
But anon, I'm not crazy, I just like Gwenpool!
>>83191147
Jimmy Corrigan and We3 didn't affect the cultural milieu at all.
>>83192788
or Manhattan was speaking to himself
>>83192498
whats stopping warner and Disney from merging peacefully?
>>83192822
meant for >>83192782
>>83189232
Get the fuck out right now
>>83188996
>DC killed my childhood
>comic bought in the last few years
Are you like 16?
