So if a cartoon introduces a character nobody likes he's referred to as "The Poochy" but what would be some examples of "Anti-Poochies" new characters added to shows people actually enjoy
>>83098428
ReBoot went full dark and edgy in season 3 and most people prefer it to its previous seasons. So I guess you could say adult Enzo and adult Andraia.
Lisa Raccoon - only showed up in the final season.
>>83098428
I often think of 'anti-Poochies' as 'Steve Urkels'.
>>83098428
Ben Wyatt in Parks and Rec, I guess
can't think of any cartoon examples
Peridot
>>83098634
You just fucking started a shitstorm
Kimi?
Peridot.
the original wacky sidekicks usurpers
The Fonzies and Urkels of the world
>>83098634
>implying SU is enjoyable
Toph
Best character who got introduced halfway through the show
>>83099149
I never really got why she's so loved. She's perfect right off the bat and never undergoes any sort of growth or self-doubt.
Then I remember barefoot blind loli and it all makes sense that /co/'s all over her.
>>83099086
Fuck off /sug/
what do you call a character whose in the show from the start but is still poochy-like in every way
Goo in Foster's Home was cute.
>>83099218
Stevens Universe
>>83099218
The Scrappy.
>>83099086
>>83098634
>My face upon hearing that there are actually people who don't like Peridot
>>83099218
Wesley Crusher
>>83099269
Wrong. Scrappy was a later addition.
As a matter of fact, Poochie shouldn't even be a trope namer, seeing that Scrappy cover that notion perfectly.
>>83099206
>never undergoes any sort of growth or self-doubt.
did...did you watch the show?
>>83099338
>voicing disdain for Peridot haters
>linking to people that have posted how Peridot is a new character that only improved the show she was introduced to.
Damn, you SU fans just really like to get angry, don't you? Seriously, get pissed at the trolls, but don't attack those who actually agree with you.
>>83099403
Scrappy is child character, but he wasn't supposed to be cool.Hence why he has his own trope. There's a difference.
>>83099422
You are being too specific. A scrappy is a character added to the show later in production with the intend to revive the audience interest, but who turn out to be disliked and found annoying by most.
This is what a scrappy is and it cover the notion of poochie on point.
>>83099403
Actually, Scrappy wasn't immediately hated. If anything, Scrappy actually saved the show. In the late 70's, the viewership was going down. Then they introduced Scrappy and the child demographic responded well to him, as well as viewership going up.
It's only in hindsight that we blame Scrappy for everything wrong with the world. I personally would blame Flim Flam, he was kinda responsible for the cancellation of 13 Ghosts Of Scooby-Doo due to people not really liking him.
>>83099463
I... I actually liked Flimflam. I didn't knew he was disliked.
>>83099461
Scrappy was popular at the time. It was a combination of other shows mimicing the formula and scrappy getting pushed for decades what made him hated.
>>83099461
A Poochie has the extra addition of being new and immediately being pushed as super-cool or badass.
>>83099218
Katara
>>83099486
So... He's the John Cena of Cartoons?
>>83099483
Well, the thing is that he got less exposure than Scrappy. People remember him more fondly, till you figure out that he is just a more annoying version of Scrappy. I mean, 13 Ghosts was the shortest running Scooby Doo series for a very good reason.
>>83099483
It wasn't the original cast we trusted and loved.
Flimflam was a bad attempt to connect with the ghetto auidence.
>>83099577
To be fair, the show is terrible through and through. Not just because of Flim Flam. It was trying to push comedy routines pretty hard and failed miserably at it.
>>83099588
Dammit, now I just have the mental image of a bunch of Latino gangs in a shoot-out before looking at their watches
>"SHIT, HOMES, WE GOTTA GET BACK TO DA CRIB BEFORE 13 GHOSTS STARTS!!!"
>"Dat Flim Flam's my man, homes."
>>83099661
>>83099577
Some of the show was enjoyable, but holy crap the production values are bad.
Even as a little kid, i was watching and noticing all the animation errors, the inconsistencies, the forced comedy. It's like they forgot what humor was and tried slapstick-lite instead.
>>83099677
>"Violent gang shootout turned into family cartoon marathon. Mayor says commision more 13 Ghosts."
>Live reports of witnesses, Jamal, 13: "Dey be hollerin' but we be hollan back tho. Den dis lil' nigga, my nigga be a wizard'n'shit and be on screen!"
> Le-ia, 15, "I want sum' o dem flimflams to my schmooch schmooch."
> Jamal continues: "We wuz scooby doo 'n shiieeeet, shiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet."
>>83099218
Felicity Smoak
>>83099779
I raise you Donna Smoak.
Or Iris West. Iris pulled an entire Lois Lane career of Smallville in one fucking season 1. That much condensed shit should be banned and barred from any kind of medium.
>>83099519
Are you out of your cotton picking mind? Katara is awesome. Her and Mai are best ATLA girls.
>>83099826
to be fair, stump WAS cool though
>>83099826
Damn, didn't mean to quote
>>83099779
Her first couple appearances she was pretty mild, it was just Oliver stopping by for 3 minutes and getting her to do something while making retarded excuses. It was only when they got reactions on how much people liked her they started pushing her more
>>83098606
But Urkle was there from the beginning. Are you thinking of his alter ego who eventually became a actual character alongside Urkle?
>>83099916
Thank god i don't know a single thing about Steven Urkel - never had the pleasure to watch it, and i'm not complaining.
Butters
>>83099958
Butters is the lovable butt of the joke.
Token on the other hand...
What is it when there's an unredeemable character that has no redeeming qualities, but there was no clear reason to why they were added?
>>83099983
Characters are added to convey messages.
IF there is no message, or it's a bad quip, it's a meta character shitting on the previous statement.
>>83098428
Starlight Glimmer. Just kidding, she sucks.
>>83099461
I think the difference is that Scrappies are actually liked at the time and it's only in hindsight that people notice
>hey, he was actually a bit shit, wasn't he?
after all, Scrappy at the time had tons of merchandise and own spin-offs.
Poochies on the other hand are disliked right from the start and as soon as Execs notice they put in the Reverse Gear and try to fundamentally change him into something better or throw him out altogether.
poochies are for all intents and purposes failed scrappy-attempts.
Not /co/, or a "Anti-Poochie", but a replacement. Ruddy from Misfits, once Nathan left.
>>83098428
>>83098428
>So if a cartoon introduces a character nobody likes he's referred to as "The Poochy"
that's not what a poochy is you stupid fuck
Toph
>>83100597
no one fucking liked slimer, why execs pushed hm so hard I don't know
>>83099415
Oh, because his post isn't tongue-in-cheek, but he's actually seething with rage, right?
>>83100652
Because kid shows always needed something that acted cute and spoke gibberish.
starlight glimmer
>>83098634
wrongo.the correct answer is Jasper
>>83098606
Urkel was annoying as fuck and destroyed the reason Family Matters existed in the first place
Who here remembers that it was supposed to be a spinoff of Perfect Strangers
>>83099362
This
A character that is such a Mary Sue that the actor playing him fucking hated him
>>83100620
Thank you, I was starting to think no one would say anything. It's close, but not quite right.
What would Cousin Oliver from Brady Bunch be? A scrappy?
>>83098428
Homeworld gems in SU
>>83102249
He'd be a Ninja Turtle in 1990.
>>83099411
Didn;t Korra prove that she didn't really grow at all? She was a terrible, neglectful mother and fucked off to live alone in a swamp forever.
>>83102207
To be fair, the Will Wheaton's more annoying himself than Wesley ever was.
>>83102330
>>83099486
I find it amazing that he hasn't been in anything since the first live action movie. Especially since there is a new Scooby direct to dvd movie every month.
>>83098509
But Hex was literally the only good part of that show
>>83102207
Wil Wheaton didn't really hate playing the character at the time. After all, he was a kid, what did he know?
What bothered him most was that Wesley would appear on the show inconsistently and doing so prevented him from doing other shows because the shooting schedule for star trek was not great.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/clOl9Mr.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>83098428
Literally flawless.
>>83102170
Weird as fuck where that show went. It was just a normal sitcom with those characters but Urkel just had to show up and everything was about him. While I thought it was funny (I was about 5 when it came out) I quickly got bored of him. Yeah they did more with the character but I just didn't find him that funny after a while since it was the same fucking joke over and over again. Urkel breaks something and says "did I do that?" Simpsons nailed it with that episode with Bart doing the same thing but saying "I didn't do it"
>>83102207
>In the end he basically became god
I really wonder if the writers even had any actual plans with the stupid character. Honestly the one and only time I actually liked a episode with him was when he and his classmate's were covering up them doing that flying thing and got a classmate killed. Since it was the few times where he ever was really shown to be fucking human.
Funny enough a character I kind of wish they used more but also glad they didn't was Barclay. I think he only had 3 or 4 episodes on TNG but in those few episodes he showed more growth than basically anyone on that show.
Not /co/ but every replacement character on M.A.S.H. is great.
>>83105175
There is literally not one character on M.A.S.H that I don't like.
>>83103798
Plus he got like, death threats because people hated the character so much. I can't image what that would be like for a kid.
Peridot
>>83098626
He and Chris are really good examples actually.
>>83099972
Token is barely around, Jimmy is a better example.
>>83105175
Weirdly enough the team behind the show went out of their way to replace each character with someone the opposite of each other.
Henry Blake (someone that didn't really care about army regulations rules) -> Potter (Army vet)
Trapper John (womanizer) -> Hunnicutt (married)
Frank Burns (horrible doctor and with no real class) -> Winchester (amazing doctor with class)
It's actually pretty amazing how well it kept working out.
Young Justice has tons of these. Artemis, Impulse, and Blue Beetle are probably the best examples.
What about Stanford Pines?
>>83105440
Huh, I never though about it that way before, but it makes a lot of sense.
>>83105487
He's not really a character as much as he is a device.
shows up in the second episode and stays for the entire series
>>83105578
weren't the first and second episodes aired together though?
>>83105135
I bet Roddenberry was setting him up to replace Picard.
Lord dominator
>>83105517
It's really the best thing you can do for whatever media you are doing. Since if you are just doing the same character people will either wonder why even replace the character or the new character is just a cheap version of the real character.
Also helps how every character that left had a strong story to go with it.
>Blake plane was shot down
>Burns went back because of insanity
Trapper didn't but BJ bonding really helped people enjoy BJ even with Trapper leaving.
>>83105630
That honestly wouldn't surprise me if that was in the back of his mind.
>>83105135
>>83105630
i can't tell you why he was made to begin (tho Roddenberry said Wesley was based off him at 14) but i can tell you why he fucked off with the Traveler
>Ronald D. Moore: "I was the one who pushed to get Wesley out of the Academy and send him off with the Traveler. I felt that there was a built-in contradiction in a character that we'd said was like Mozart in his appreciation of higher mathematics and physics, yet was just on the same career path as any Starfleet cadet. I didn't get it – if Wes is truly special and gifted, what the hell is he doing at the Helm? It seemed like he was only going to the Academy to live up to the memory of his father and the expectations of Picard, not because it was his best destiny. "Journey's End" also seemed like an opportunity to see someone walk away from Starfleet with their head held high and just say "It's cool, but not for me." I was tired of everyone in the 24th century saying, "All I want to do is wear the uniform and serve on a starship." Hey, it's cool, but it's not for everyone. So I pushed to have Wes realize his destiny was elsewhere and have him walk away." (AOL chat, 1997)
>>83106002
That's cool and all but the problem was that it just reinforced what made people not like Wesley. He was just too god damn special and the idea of him gaining powers like that just made it even worse. I just think it's funny how in Nemesis he's just back with no one questioning what the fuck happened.
>>83098509
>adult Enzo
That's not how you spell Matrix
>>83099916
no he wasn't he was a one off nerd joke, then became a recurring character, and then eventually the focus of the show. the original 'goof ball next door' character a girl that hung with laura, but she was pretty similar to the girl on full house.
Urkele was less a character introduced to retool a show to save it from bad rating though, it was more lighting in a bottle type situation.
>>83098428
As a wrestling fan, I know a Poochie as a character who becomes overly important to the detriment of the show (coined by Real Deal back when people read Wrestlecrap.) This is based on Homer's notes for the character ("One, Poochie needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine. Two, whenever Poochie's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking "Where's Poochie"? Three...") The best example of a Poochie is Kevin Nash after he started booking WCW.
To me, the thread's definition of a Poochie is a Cousin Oliver. I do agree that a reverse Cousin Oliver should be called a Ben Wyatt or possibly even a Jefferson D'Arcy.
As for the topic at hand, do Markula on ATHF and Tammi on Squidbillies count?
>>83105528
>b-b-but muh J.K. Simmons
>>83099983
I liked Choni. She was fun.
>>83098626
The is literally the best example in this thread.
>>83105487
That's my example of a character who gets added and then criminally underused.
>>83098606
This sounds kinda right. He was a side character that took over the show. An older example would be Arthur Fonzarelli.
>>83098677
Wheres the shitstorm anon
>>83102372
LoK was also a terrible show that showed Bryke had no idea what to do with a character that was created by a different writer. FYI their idea for Toph was a male character that was a rival to Aang for Katara's affection (basically Jett 2.0).
Pops from Johnny Bravo. Introduced in season two alongside Carl to give Johnny a circle of friends. Carl... was harmless for the most part, but Pops was great. Pops is one of the best characters in the show.
>>83113317
Carl was great too
>>83099837
Katara a shit.
>>83098598
GOT DANG
>>83099415
I took it more as "You mean everyone doesn't already think this?"
I don't think any of us were around, but pretty much all the characters in peanuts added later on are great.
Most characters?
Do one shots count?
If not, technically she returned in the comic continuations
>>83102249
Cartoon Oliver is Whiz, the most underrated member of Kidd Video.
Aren't completely new, important characters added to series very frequently -- say, once a season? In the wake of Joss Whedon, they're usually referred to as "The Big Bad," but that in no way diminishes them as regular characters.
For instance, "The Flash" Season 1 had Eobard Thawne, and then in Season 2 they introduced Zoom. I don't think of Zoom as a Poochy.
>>83099463
>>83099486
The main problem with Scrappy is what happened after he joined: they got rid of everyone else except Shaggy and Scooby, and the plots changed from "monsters are fake and get unmasked at the end" to "monsters are real and everyone runs away"
He was also annoying but the format change really got my goat.
>>83099837
No, he's absolutely spot on. Katara's main role was to nag and be an abrasive fuck wit, whilst inexplicably never getting called out on being a surly, unlikeable cunt.
>>83107550
>As for the topic at hand, do Markula on ATHF and Tammi on Squidbillies count?
I don't think so. Markula was just part of the season-long story, and Tammi practically doesn't exist outside of episodes that focus on her and Rusty.
>>83106403
>>83099916
topanga is the one who appeared later and then became well liked and one of the main characters without taking over the show
>>83105135
No, the writers had no plans for Wesley after they wrote him off the show by finishing his character arc. In Season 1 Picard was told that Wesley was a super genius prodigy and that he should be nurtured and given guidance because his abilities could wrap space and time if he put his mind to it. So they ended him with him getting that point and leaving.
The problem with Wesley was that Gene Roddenberry was incredibly attached to the guy, but he's not an author insert for Gene, Picard kind of filled that role in Season 1 and 2 with Picard being wise, above it all, always right, the administrator. Kirk was the author insert for Gene (powerful, forceful, sexually active, almost always right) in TOS.
Gene had Wesley in there for no other reason than to market the show to kids but Gene didn't get that kids liked the show in spite of Wesley and not because of him and didn't identify with the guy.
>>83100652
fuck oof I only watched it because of slimer
>>83105630
While Gene Roddenberry did create the guy, he was created to be how regular people would do if they were thrown in the the Trek Universe like be terrified of being transported, spend all their time on the holodeck.
The thing about Gene Roddenberry is that he didn't envision the show to last that long and didn't have any plans to change up the main character of the show. He's just there to be a very flawed character in a cast of people with any grit to them by design.
>>83098428
The word you're looking for is "breakout character".
>>83120370
t. Fox exec
A breakout character is a breakout character.
>>83116723
That little pixie did strange things to me when I was a kid.
Not a show, but a comic.
Swedish series Bamse had sort of stagnated, with only 1 competent villain(and even that villain never actually did anything himself, his incompetent lackeys did).
Cue introducing this new villain, who was actually competent as well as likable in his absolute assholishness.
