https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=876W253z6KY
>>83003892
Because it's expensive.
Because animation in America is made strictly for the lowest common denominator, and they don't give a shit about quality.
>>83006423
Unlike in glorious japan.
Why can't we outsource animation to Japan anymore? Nowadays it's outsourced to South Korea.
>>83006627
is that transformers?
>>83006423
because most budgets for animations goes to VAs here in the west.
>>83006627
Jesus what was the buget for the transformers weekend
>>83006749
isn't VAs' Budget bigger in Japan?
>>83006672
>transformers
The original 80's movie. You know, the good one. Before that Bayformers shit happened.
what we need is more in-house animation, like superjail. Koreans are fucking trash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ah2I166f_U
>>83007145
it's criminal to be this patriotic anymore.
>>83003892
Because animation is expensive and the fact fine arts which is very important to be good in animation is being fazed out for modern art. I thing the latter is a bigger factor.
>>83007145
The animation is awful.
>>83003892
Because the process is insanely resource-intensive.
To have consistent high-quality animation like some parts of that video you need people slaving away for weeks.
This costs a ton of money you cannot justify through greater sales for the most part.
Unless you can somehow move more dosh for being better animated, you can't justify more budget to the suits.
So right now we have a very tight balancing of model complexity vs fluidity, weighted heavily towards fluidity and movement as opposed to the 80s where you had an animé-like situation with detailed models that would hardly move.
Like in all those scifi shows where you had completely still ships that hovered around very affordably.
>>83003892
It's finished oh shit
God I love this beautiful piece
It sucks we don't get shit like this anymore
>>83003892
Fuck I want an Ace Combat-esque R-type now
>HP Lovecraft
You fucking what nigger? HR Giger the name youre looking for as that is clearly inspired by the xenomorph.
>>83007615
But that wouldn't have lent itself to the "back to non-Euklidian space" line.
>>83007745
It would require a reference to any of the Alien movies, probably Aliens and probably a Hudson line. Mostly this is just my bitching about my own autism getting triggered. Everything is "Lovercraftian" and its pissing me off like how everything is zombies now. Otherwise it was a really solid short.
>>83007215
I thought it was pretty awesome. So many things were happening on screen at once. Can you tell me what you thought was bad about it?
>>83008647
The animation is not smooth the character movements don't have believable weight.
>>83008089
I have to agree the dialogue was shit, though.
>>83003892
Hey, this is by the guy who did the Anime Doctor Who isn't it?
Glad to see he's doing more animation!
Seems like this thread is the perfect place to post the Thundercats intro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjaTkPYzK00
>>83009134
was that animated in Japan?
>>83009134
Too bad 90% of the animation budget went into the intro.
>>83010443
Yeah, it's a solo animation work by Masayuki. You can see the style of effects and posing that was popularized by Yoshinori Kanada in the 70s and 80s.
i don't get how can DC make its straight to DVD Animated Featured Films with pretty decent animation ( i guess is japanese animation?) and we can't have decent animated series ...
>>83006476
His studio has never produced anything, he doesn't speak for the entire industry, and there were and still are a lot of people making "serious" and "mature" anime, so his complaints were and are groundless.
And even if you personally don't like harem and moe shows and whatnot (which are not aimed at the lowest common denominator but at niche audiences), that doesn't mean they aren't good productions.
>>83006873
The cost of a single lead voice actor on The Simpsons is two or three times more than the total episode budget of the average anime. According to that Shirobako salary chart that sometimes get posted, an A-list voice actor in Japan makes in an entire year what a lead actor in The Simpsons makes in two episodes.
>>83007065
>You know, the good one.
It's laughable that tranformers fans think this. The only thing going for it that it looks pretty and thats it.
>>83010927
The point was japan has it's fair share of shit made just for money.
>>83011904
this scene is better than any scene from Michael Bay's Transformer
inb4 80s nostalgia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVx2DcvxCHw
>>83003892
The animation isn't that good, especially the character animation. It has a lot of drawings and the quality of the drawings are pretty high, but the animation has a lot of room for improvement. And didn't he rotoscope 3D animation for this? At least he's done that before.
It's just nice to see animation that isn't SleepyCabin wacky-face yelling-all-the-time bullshit.
>>83011966
I don't presume to know the motivations of anime creators, and I don't assume that something was made just for money just because I don't personally like it or because it's not high brow enough.
And even if something is made just for money by people who would rather be working on something else, it can still be a basically competent and professional production.
>>83003892
The animation was great, but the dialogue was atrocious. Should've had no dialogue.
>>83009134
Did someone say Mighty Orbots?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=an5VfHRSmnY
>>83003892
>Otaking
>>83012402
So japan has never made anything bad?
>>83012511
Where was anything like that said or implied?
>>83011904
It's fucking great, you dumb nigger.
>Memorable villains
>80s metal music and based Vince Dicola
>Great action sequences
>Dat sense of epic adventure
>Prime going out like a boss
Great fucking movie. Fuck you.
>>83012402
But you presume to know the motivations of american cartoon creators.
>>83012743
I didn't even say anything about them.
>>83012511
>>83012402
>>83012743
it's obvious japan go with waifu pandering and fan service since that keep the paycheck coming, but they con go full commercial and do some decent animation, the topic here is "why can't western establish a viable model to produce decent animated series?"
>>83003892
Was this by the same guy who did that awesome Tie Fighter video?
>>83012838
yes
>>83012580
>Killed characters left and right to make way for new toys
>Forgettable characters
>The entire trash planet
>WEIRD AL SONG
>Orson Welles simply just didn't give a fuck
For as much you people like to shit on Bay's Transformers they still far more watchable and entertaining than that cartoon movie.
>>83012921
I get what you saying but the humans really bring down the bay films for me.
I still haven't seen a modern cartoon top this
>>83013238
I mean christ, look at this, how has there been nothing like this on TV for so long despite all the advances in technology?
>>83013276
>>83013238
They work way too hard for something that wasn't going to receive a lot of praise.
>>83012921
- Finally realist stake in my Intergalactic war
- Some of them
- Was great.
- Weird Al is a talented and I've always liked that song.
- Even dialing it in Welles is great.
>For as much you people like to shit on Bay's Transformers they still far more watchable and entertaining than that cartoon movie.
Something is wrong with you.
>>83006627
>Why can't we outsource animation to Japan anymore? Nowadays it's outsourced to South Korea.
And France outsources it to North Korea, where they pay the animators in rice and there is a "director" making sure none of the workers gets any funny capitalist ideas.
Regardless, South Korea animates more foreign projects because their salaries are lower than Japan's.
>>83003892
>>83006627
WE outsorsed to Japan with Korra and was SHIT. Korea on the other side did way better.
>>83012832
"Waifu pandering" doesn't exist, and "fanservice" is a misnomer when talking about anime.
Establishing something functionally equivalent to the anime industry would be extremely difficult or impossible. The anime industry is enabled by many different factors and has taken many decades to build. It may be something that can only exist in Japan. I don't know where Americans should even start, especially now that they've annihilated their domestic animation capabilities.
>>83013276
>how has there been nothing like this on TV for so long despite all the advances in technology?
why spend money on animation when you can just get the rights to an anime for next to nothing?
>>83013276
It's not a matter of tech, it's a matter of investing in outsourcing.
>>83012921
>Orson Welles simply just didn't give a fuck
Which worked perfectly.
>>83003892
>>83007615
Same reaction here. Calling Lovecraft instead of Giger? He's a fucking casual, no wonder he dies on first boss.
>>83013933
Because there is nothing functionally equivalent outside of the anime industry, waifu pandering is unique to anime because Japan/Korea has such a huge population of social outcast NEETs that such a marketing can be wildly successful where anywhere else it would struggle.
>>83015480
Waifu pandering doesn't exist, and I wasn't talking about anything like that. The anime industry started about four decades before late night anime, and there's a lot of anime besides moe and harem shows.
>>83015641
Also, the otaku audience for late night anime is small. Disc sales for most shows are measured in the thousands.
>>83015641
>Waifu pandering doesn't exist
>goes on to mention moe and harem shows
I'm not saying ALL anime is waifu pandering, just that it exists and there is a big industry for it.
>>83015877
It does not exist. Pandering in anime has never been proven to exist in general, and waifu just means a character that you personally are very fond of.
>>83015973
lol, are you that /a/utist from the previous thread?
>>83016018
I don't visit /a/ much, so no. What does this have to do with what I said?
>>83013922
Actually, Korra was outsourced to Korea. Some Japanese animation is outsourced to Korea too. Soon, all the "decent" stuff will be.
>>83006627
>>83006672
So how do we get americans to animate their own shit again?
>>83016145
I think there's only been a few anime projects that have been outsourced entirely or mostly to foreign countries (like some daytime kids' show nobody has ever heard of). Anime production remains domestic to the extent that even a lot of in-betweening is done there (maybe even most in-betweening?).
>>83015973
How does any harem anime not qualify as that? They're literally a genre of shows about a self-insert protagonist getting all the girls. It's not even the only genre that's built entirely on waifu pandering and fan-service. I'm not much of an expert of anime but even I have heard of numerous shows that are built around entirely on "cute" moe-blobs getting in lewd situations.
>>83016398
How do you know the author of a harem manga, light novel or game was pandering? How do you know he didn't make it because he was interested in it? If you concede that there are people who enjoy harem stories, then what makes you think there aren't people who enjoy harem stories and also make them?
>self-insert
Also not a real thing. Westerners are obsessed with self-insertion and project it onto the Japanese.
>It's not even the only genre that's built entirely on waifu pandering and fan-service
Again: waifu pandering does not exist. There is no such thing.
>moeblobs
These don't exist either.
![350x219px-613fe669_wtfff[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/oO7kIY2.jpg "350x219px-613fe669_wtfff[1].jpg")
>>83016631
How do you know that not a single one ISN'T pandering? You statement is absolutionist and doesn't have much weight based purely on statistics. Out of the sheer magnitude of them, there's bound to be a handful that are nothing put marketing.
>>83016631
>moeblobs don't exist
Pic fucking related. A lot of anime styles are rife with sameface. Again, not to say all or even most of anime is like that, just that it exists.
>>83015973
>>83016631
Prove that it doesn't exist instead of saying that it doesn't.
>>83016813
If you think someone is pandering, it's up to you to prove it or at least provide compelling arguments.
>Pic fucking related.
Moeblobs don't exist.
>A lot of anime styles are rife with sameface.
Sameface is a meme and has nothing in particular to do with moe.
>>83016846
Burden of proof is on you.
>>83016813
Jesus christ those things aren't human.
>>83016813
>"I'm cute?"
No, you're not. You're a fucking monstrosity.
>>83013238
>>83013276
>"TMS did the best animation of the series for this episode. The second part had maybe six retakes on the whole show, which is incredible," said producer Bruce Timm. "The first time we saw it in the editing room, we couldn't believe how beautiful it was. It has all those transformation effects that only TMS could do. It was after these two episodes that we decided that any two-parters we did would have to be done at the same studio." Timm had a theory why TMS did such a good job, which he felt resulted from Warner Bros' demand that they redo the opening sequence for the series.
>Noted Timm, "I think when we shipped them 'Clayface,' they said to themselves: They think they know everything, but we'll show them how do do this show. We'll change Batman's colors. We'll do special color key treatments on the villains when they're walking over the green vat. We'll blow them away.' If that's their revenge, thank you for proving us wrong. I was so happy with that episode." "The sequence where Daggett and Germs are walking over that green vat, those characters look like they're three-dimensional. They look like they're rotoscoped. When Daggett slowly turns toward the camera, the shadows really wrap around his face. It's as if they're real! They did all those colors themselves. We couldn't even ask for those colors if we wanted to. They aren't even in our palette. They had to specially mix those colors." Shirley Walker, supervising music composer for the series, found the task of scoring this episode quite a challenge. "It was demanding story-wise," said Walker. "There was so much going on. I was so proud of it that I submitted it for Emmy consideration, and that's the one that I got a nomination for.""
>>83013238
TMS was beyond god tier.
>>83016925
>Sameface is a meme
You mean when multiple characters share the exact same facial structure is a meme? This shit isn't even exclusive to anime you mongoloid.
"Moe doesn't exist"
"Self-inserts aren't a thing"
"Waifu pandering isn't a thing"
"Most animes don't take place in high school"
"Americans make these terms up to insult glorious nippon"
>>83017241
>inb4 "for these arbitrary reasons I don't consider them pandering because the creators never say it is"
>>83003892
The lip synching is so awkward.
Also,
>modern camera angles
>in a 2D side scroller
>>83017213
It's rare for anime characters to have sameface, that's why it's a meme.
>>83017241
>Moe doesn't exist
Of course it exists, and I never said it doesn't.
>Self-inserts aren't a thing
Westerners are obsessed with self-insertion and project that onto the Japanese.
>Waifu pandering isn't a thing
Waifu doesn't mean what you think it means, and the existence of pandering in general has never been proven.
>Most animes don't take place in high school
When did we even talk about this?
>Americans make these terms up to insult glorious nippon
Where did I say this?
>Autumn 2014.png
What is this supposed to prove?
>>83017328
If you think someone is pandering, it's up to you to prove it.
>>83016933
>>83016999
Those are edits.
>>83017443
>It's rare for anime characters to have sameface, that's why it's a meme.
Google anime and sameface. You'll find all the examples you could want.
>>83017443
>Of course it exists, and I never said it doesn't.
>>83016631
>>83016925
>>83017564
I said:
>It's rare
I did not say:
>It never happens
>>83017644
Where did I say in either of those posts that moe does not exist?
>>83017684
>it's rare
>google search shows numerous examples
>a lot of mainstream shows are guilty of it
It's not THAT rare. That's like saying side-mouth is rare.
>>83017774
The only recent case of sameface I can think of is Love Live Sunshine. Some of the characters look way too similar to the original cast.
>>83017241
>Ai Tenchi Muyo
Who the fuck are those girls??
Anyway, most of these actually aren't moe, though I will certainly not deny that a good number are, or at least have aspects (visual or otherwise) in them. Aikatsu is cute, but it's not moe, for example. Meanwhile, Fate/stay night isn't cute, but it certainly has moe all over it, being based on a VN.
>>83017443
You're delusional, but it's true that Japanese animation generally has more serious productions made out of a wish to create good art. That's just by virtue of having so much more to it.
I'm subscribed to his blog because I'm interested in cultural aspects despite not living there, but Peter Payne's views on Japanese animation are very narrow and steeped in moe culture.
>>83017826
How am I delusional?
Anime and cartoons are both in decline, anime is becoming otakushit because anything else doesn't profit and cartoons are cheaply animated and are forever doomed to be comedy.
This is a truth that both sides aren't willing to admit.
>inb4 your an amerifag/japshit
I'm from Brazil.
>>83009087
Yeah, Paul "OtaKing" Johnson. He also recently did a TIE Fighter short that's really gorgeous.
![[HorribleSubs] Joker Game - 05 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_05.37_[2016.05.18_22.37.07].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gnGPoUW.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Joker Game - 05 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_05.37_[2016.05.18_22.37.07].jpg")
>>83017954
There are many "non-otaku" shows made every season. You just don't watch them.
>>83017922
I think you're delusional to think that pandering doesn't exist when there are a lot of major industry leaders complaining about how most animators nowadays are fans, and it's getting more shallow because of that. Miyazaki retired because he couldn't stand it.
We get some
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQwgIZ__WrY
There were times when I legit thought some of the Thunderbirds were physical models like the sets. They weren't.
>>83010805
Because a year or so spent on one 100 minute or so feature will always turn out better results than a year spent producing 26 or more episodes of a TV show.
Hell, we HAD a DC animated show with that top-tier quality animation. It was called Young Justice. Say what you want about it, it was a very pretty show, and it was also a financial failure because it didn't move any product for a number of reasons. So now WB is understandably gun-shy about that sort of thing.
>>83018069
They are a minority, for every non otaku show nowadays there are 10 more animes about high schools with cute girls.
>>83018069
>>83018210
The majority of things are non-otaku, really. They're considered an ever-present periphery demographic, however, and most adaptations of things that aren't being written for otaku have that in mind. Shonen Jump- or Hana to Yume-based series are definitely not being designed with mainly otaku in mind, for example. Although I'm not familiar with light novel culture, it would seem that series like Haruhi Suzumiya and Toradora got mainstream popularity, though they both fit nicely into otaku norms, as well. The only other examples I know from the "big 3" LN publishers also fit otaku, and like I said, I'm not familiar with how popular they were in general, though I'd assume things like Spice & Wolf are probably just being written as good stories.
The vast majority of VN and their adaptations are for otaku, however.
>>83018155
I don't get all that shit of economy and financial success since there's people eraning money doing vidya streaming and i have to stand bullshit in my work just to pay bills.
>>83018144
I'm not that guy, but if the people making otaku stuff are otaku themselves then it's explicitly not pandering, regardless of the quality.
Catering to otaku, yes. But it's not pandering if it's genuine.
>>83018426
Genuinely enjoying something doesn't make it not pandering. Why would it? You're still creating something specifically for that audience, even if you're part of that audience. Maybe especially so.
If I'm a lady who really enjoys romance novels with sailors, and I write about sailors, I am still pandering to those women enjoy such smut. I believe tranny-kid is a great example of pandering to like-minded folks.
>>83018144
We've had this argument countless times now, and there still is no evidence that pandering exists.
>major industry leaders complaining about how most animators nowadays are fans
That proves the opposite of what you think it proves.
Miyazaki's retirement had nothing to do with TV anime. He made movies, not TV shows. He hasn't been involved with TV anime since the early 80s or late 70s.
"Shallow" shows have always been around, and the kind of 2deep4u shows that Western viewers now expect as the norm didn't even really start until Evangelion (which was also made by "fans").
>>83018210
This season we've got at least:
12-sai
Aikatsu
Sailor Moon Crystal
Boku no Hero Academia
Bungou Stray Dogs
Concrete Revolutio
Flying Witch
Ace Attorney
JoJo
Joker Game
Kaitou Joker
Gundam
Kiznaiver
Kabaneri
Kumamiko
Kuromukuro
Kyoukai no Rinne
Macross Delta (probably)
Mayoiga
Sakamoto Desu ga
Sousei no Onmyouji
Terra Formars
Ushio to Tora
I may be wrong about a couple of those, and there's also some shows I didn't list because I'm not sure about them. So you're saying all those shows are not enough? How much would be enough then?
>>83018426
Actually, that would be pandering to oneself.
>>83017241
Fuck, I keep forgetting I need to watch Garo.
>>83018573
Pandering is the act of cynically appealing to a certain audience and making something you don't care about for the sake of money.
So back at the original topic, how can we rebuild our animation industry?
Kids don't like nice animation, look at the popular shows
AT
Regular Show
Steven Universe
Loud House
all garbage
>>83018573
>>83018650
>pander
>[pan-der]
>a person who caters to or profits from the weaknesses or vices of others.
Panderers cater to the vices of OTHERS. If you write about gay sparkledogs because you like gay sparkledogs then you are catering to them. If you write about gay sparklegods because gay sparkledogs are the Hot New Thing then you are pandering to them.
Again, it's not pandering if it's genuine.
>>83018736
*manchildren, most kids don't give a shit about cartoons anymore. They watch youtube now.
>>83018736
That doesn't prove that those shows are successful because they lack good animation. It just shows that they are popular and that they lack good animation.
Holy shit that was some awful dialogue.
>>83018631
>That proves the opposite of what you think it proves.
. . . No, it really doesn't. To be clear, I'm talking about OTAKU fans, who are stagnating the industry by drawing from other animation rather than from life. They are quite plainly pandering to themselves.
>Miyazaki's retirement had nothing to do with TV anime
It had nothing to do with any specific part; it had to do with the industry in general. Why should he even care if MOVIES were that way? They aren't being made by HIS studio, after all. He cares about the industry as a whole and is tired from working with it. By the way, I'm not sure why you believe the people behind those films work exclusively on films when that is readily untrue.
>"Shallow" shows have always been around
Duh. What's your point? Vapid shows with no meaning or relation to real life are much more common than 20 years ago.
>and the kind of 2deep4u shows that Western viewers now expect as the norm didn't even really start until Evangelion
Again, what is your point? Those aren't expected as the norm, and those are not exclusively what any respectable creator would mean when saying "deep" works.
>which was also made by "fans"
If by fans, you mean people who are passionate about the medium, yes. If by fans you mean otaku, then you are dead wrong, since the series has open criticism of otaku--which is quite relevant to today's industry, incidentally.
Your list of accurate, tbut you're missing a lot of you don't realize a lot of those are more moe than their source material.
>>83018713
Why does it have to be cynical?
>>83018763
That definition is the noun.
>pander
>Gratify or indulge (an immoral or distasteful desire, need, or habit or a person with such a desire, etc.).
No statement on who specifically it is, nor about whether or not it's something the panderer likes or not.
For that matter, catering to an audience with such shallow desires is nothing good, either. You're either arguing for my case or arguing semantics.
>>83018891
He's saying that they're popular regardless of good animation, as in kids don't care whether it has good animation or not.
>>83018875
Thanks, now I'm even more depressed
>>83019273
and the worst part isevery kid watches minecraft vids, my sister works as an elementary teacher and she says they won't shut up about it and they talk about youtubers as if they were celebs. Theres even a goddamn minecraft club.
>>83019164
They aren't pandering if they're fans of what they're making, and if you don't like "otaku" shows then go watch Joker Game, Kyoukai no Rinne, Flying Witch, Sakamoto Desu ga, Pokemon XY or One Piece instead.
Making something (seemingly) based on real life doesn't mean it's original or good, and not being excessively concerned with realism is one of the things that make anime what it is. If you insist on "realism" then there's always American TV.
>He cares about the industry as a whole and is tired from working with it.
He was sitting in his Ghibli ivory tower and had no practical reason to care about what late night anime was up to. Unless he has gone on record to say that he quit because late night anime was triggering him, you're just projecting your opinions onto him.
>By the way, I'm not sure why you believe the people behind those films work exclusively on films when that is readily untrue.
Miyazaki only made movies.
>Vapid shows with no meaning or relation to real life are much more common than 20 years ago.
Since Evangelion, there's been an increase in "serious"," "dramatic," "realistic," "artistic" and "deep" shows.
>Those aren't expected as the norm
Many people do expect them as the norm now.
>If by fans you mean otaku, then you are dead wrong
Gainax was a super otaku studio. Otaku means more than just moe.
>Your list of accurate, tbut you're missing a lot of you don't realize a lot of those are more moe than their source material.
?
>>83019721
I don't know why there's such a phobia towards Minecraft on 4chan. It's a virtual lego game with complex machinery and no hand-holding whatsoever. How is that bad for kids?
>>83019823
>They aren't pandering if they're fans of what they're making
They are pandering to people like themselves. Is that so hard to grasp?
> if you don't like "otaku" shows then go watch Joker Game, Kyoukai no Rinne, Flying Witch, Sakamoto Desu ga, Pokemon XY or One Piece instead.
When did I ever say I didn't like them? Some of my favorites are very otaku-friendly, like Clannad. Whether I like the shows or not has nothing to do with my criticism of them.
>Unless he has gone on record to say that he quit because late night anime was triggering him, you're just projecting your opinions onto him.
The state of the industry was one of his given reasons for retiring, yes.
>Since Evangelion, there's been an increase in "serious"," "dramatic," "realistic," "artistic" and "deep" shows.
When did I say there were not? Those can also be shallow. Aesthetic is not the measurement of depth. Slice of life, horror, drama, space opera, celebrity, and period stories can all be deep and can all be shallow. But there are more shallow ones in recent years.
>Many people do expect them as the norm now.
Who?
>Gainax was a super otaku studio. Otaku means more than just moe.
They are now, yes. And I never once implied it was simply moe, so I don't know why you're bringing it up. Eva still had a lot of relevant criticism of otaku culture.
>?
I'm saying the list you compiled is a good list showing ones that were not created with otaku in mind. However, those that are adaptations are noticeably more otaku-friendly than their source material.
I hope you don't think I'm complaining about things being bad as a way to say that creators nowadays are talentless hacks or that nothing good has come into existence because it's not my precious classics. Criticism is important for growth, and I think that there has been a lot of underutilized techniques that have become possible in recent years because animators simply aren't interested in creating something more.
>>83016145
S2 of Korra was mostly outsourced to Studio Pierrot in Japan, and looks significantly worse than the seasons that were outsourced to Studio Mir in Korea.
>>83019721
>>83019979
you both sound like little bitches
>>83019979
I think its pretty strange how big it got. If you really want to see people shit on it make a thread about it on /v/.
They're still upset about the lack of updates.
>>83020215
That's not what pandering means. If they're fans of what they're making then they aren't pandering.
>Whether I like the shows or not has nothing to do with my criticism of them.
Then what are you criticizing exactly?
>The state of the industry was one of his given reasons for retiring, yes.
What did he mean by the state of the industry?
>When did I say there were not? Those can also be shallow.
Then what do you mean by shallow? Why are you claiming that there are now more shallow shows than before?
>Who?
Take a step back and seriously think about what you're asking here.
>They are now, yes.
I'm talking about the 80s and early 90s. They made Daicon III/IV, Gunbuster and Otaku no Video.
>And I never once implied it was simply moe, so I don't know why you're bringing it up.
Well that's what you seemed to be saying.
>However, those that are adaptations are noticeably more otaku-friendly than their source material.
What are you talking about?
>>83020326
How?
>thread about decline of western animation
>goes into anime vs. cartoons
>goes into definition ofotakushit
>goes into minecraft
I just wanted to see videos with excellent animation
>>83016813
>A lot of anime styles are rife with sameface.
You say that, but you do realize that western art isn't very different from that, right? Specially nowadays.
>>83007615
The Bydo are "lovecraftian" in nature, they have properties that doesn't conform with normal matter.
>>83020740
>That's not what pandering means
The definition I gave says otherwise.
>Then what are you criticizing exactly?
My criticism is that they are more shallow and based in wish-fulfillment than for the purpose of creating good stories. Again, this doesn't apply to everything, and these types of stories have always existed. My criticism is that they're quite saturated now, which is a shame because of the technology and talent available.
>What did he mean by the state of the industry?
To paraphrase, animators are more interested in animation than real life, and the industry is stagnating because of that.
>Then what do you mean by shallow? Why are you claiming that there are now more shallow shows than before?
I explained above what I mean by shallow, though that's only part. Another part is that there is a larger focus on making something enjoyable over making something from the heart. Simply put, a great piece of art has universal themes, but a weak piece of art has universal IDEAS.
>Take a step back and seriously think about what you're asking here.
I don't need to because I am asking what fans are expecting this, because I know of none who consider it the norm.
>I'm talking about the 80s and early 90s. They made Daicon III/IV, Gunbuster and Otaku no Video.
I wouldn't disagree, but modern otaku are not quite the same as those from that time, either. The literal "who" of the fanbase is not a measure of this. They're the same groups, but they have different expectations now, and not for the better. Not to say that the 90s were the pinnacle by any means.
>What are you talking about?
The list you gave that other guy of currently-airing shows. What other list would I be talking about?
>>83021012
The problems in both parts of the industry are pretty similar, albeit from different sources. And of course, they're not in a vacuum; there are other problems, too. There have been worse times, though, and there's still a lot of good now.
Can someone just post a lot of cool Redline webms before I go to bed.
>>83018210
>animes about high schools with cute girls.
That's just a framing device for the story. That's like saying every western animation is about young people having adventures and it's pandering to manchildren who are stuck in the 80's
>>83021479
Then your definition is wrong, and what is even the use of complaining about people "pandering" by making something that's aimed at a certain audience? Most things are aimed at certain audiences.
>wish-fulfillment
Meme.
>My criticism is that they're quite saturated now, which is a shame because of the technology and talent available.
There are between 30 and 50 full length shows made every season. There is more of everything. If you don't like some shows then watch something else. Problem solved.
>To paraphrase, animators are more interested in animation than real life, and the industry is stagnating because of that.
I've seen that story, but I've not seen anything to indicate it's connected to his retirement. And he is wrong anyway.
>Another part is that there is a larger focus on making something enjoyable over making something from the heart.
How are these mutually exclusive?
>I don't need to because I am asking what fans are expecting this, because I know of none who consider it the norm.
Do you seriously expect me to have a list of names or something? What the hell is wrong with you?
>I wouldn't disagree, but modern otaku are not quite the same as those from that time, either.
So-called modern otaku were around back then too. They didn't just suddenly appear at the turn of the century.
>The list you gave that other guy of currently-airing shows.
I am referring to this (and already quoted it):
>However, those that are adaptations are noticeably more otaku-friendly than their source material.
>>83021479
Buddy, I'm tired, and I have a lot to do tomorrow, so if the thread is still up, we can continue our conversation. It was a lot of fun.
>>83021951
>If you don't like some shows then watch something else
I don't think you understand the point of criticism.
>>83022010
I don't think you understand that anime doesn't exist for your sake.
>>83022136
Criticism is for the sake of the artist.
>>83022184
"Stop making things I don't like" is not valid criticism.
>>83006387
Sigh....Yea.
>>83003892
Thank god steven universe came to his rescue at the end or that nigga would've died right there.
>>83007615
This triggered me too. I guess casuals think any gross monster/alien is Lovecraft now?
But even then, just, wow, IDK how you can call yourself a nerd and not spot the clear as fucking day Alien reference. Even normies would notice after the thing has a fuck chestburster.
As for the animation, it obviously has a lot of work and care put into it. However, the human's animation looks far too smooth, to the point of uncanniness. It has the bizarre roto-scope-like effect. The animation still looks great when the same techniques are applied to all the robots being destroyed and the boss. And yea, the dialogue is awful, guy should have got himself a writer.
>>83023869
It's not bad because it's smooth and rotoscope-like, it's bad because it's badly done.
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/11283/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/11966/
>>83024112
Meant to post https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/18040/ or something else as the other link, Wind Rises isn't really rotoscope-like.
A lot of recent western animation looks too "clean" to me. Like, everything's made of solid lines with little variance in thickness, colored with the paint-bucket tool, and given rudimentary shading if any.
The epidemic of noodle-arms doesn't help either.
It just feels like the art lacks character.
>>83013706
They're paychecks are almost the same, it's the yen/won to dollar rates that make people use South Korea.
>An HD version of R-Type Final was released on PS3 as a downloadable with the lag issues fixed up a decent amount
>It got taken down after not even a year and now you can never get it
>>83020300
The thing is that Pierrot only had 3 animators in house on board on Korra, most of the animation was outsourced to smaller lesser studios like Magic Bus & Actas.
Mir was "ONLY" brought back because they were cheaper, to think if they used Rough Draft instead of Pierrot, they would of done Korra until the very end.
>>83018706
You should watch the live action show as well
Its all pretty good
>>83007517
check out liquid television if you haven't
i honestly think it was some of the best western animation had to offer
>>83021012
Everytime I here someone say anime is on the decline, I just look at my BD of Ping Pong the animation and laugh.
>>83003892
Those facial animations and rotoscoping are... really not that great.
>>83028483
>western animation
>Madhouse
