Objectively best villains in their respective rogues' gallery.
Pic related.
>trying to pick best Flash villain
>>82901704
It's Cold, hands down.
>>82901704
>>82901845
>trying to pick a good Flash villain
You roguesuckers are embarrassing.
>>82901937
>Rogues
>implying
>>82901864
Where's pic from?
R'as is fucking BORING. I end up groaning every time he shows up halfway through a storyline, because I know it's abruptly going to stop feeling like a fucking Batman comic.
I don't think there's an objective best Bats villain. Good Joker can definitely hit some great stuff thematically, but then bad joker (which is everywhere) is just the worst.
>>82904090
I'd guess Avengers Assemble
>>82901937
Not edgy enough for ya?
HOT OPINIONS COMING THROUGH
>>82904488
>because I know it's abruptly going to stop feeling like a fucking Batman comic.
What does that even Mean. The League, R'as and Talia are like an absolute staple of Batman.
>>82904683
I've always felt R'as feels like an Indy villain they threw into Batman. Almost all of Bats' villains are relatively normal Gothamites that go crazy or have something utterly horrible happen to them, and R'as is an incredibly old genius plotting for world domination.
Talia and Bats is an awful, forced couple, too.
>HOT STEAMING OPINION
>>82905236
i think he was originally envisioned as a sort of Bond villain who could bring out the Bond/Indiana Jones/etc. aspects of Batman better than the more parochial native Gotham villains. Give him an excuse to travel to exotic locations for a change, force him to deploy his Wayne Industries resources on a grander scale than just building a better mousetrap for petty local rogues, providing an outside context "greater scope" villain plot that puts more than just Gotham at stake, etc.
So he isn't a normal Batman rogue, and his stories are different in tone from other Bat stories. But that's intentional.
>>82905629
I mean, I guess.
But I'm not a fan of it when he's treated as Batman's "best" villain/his archenemy etc.
>>82901845
this
he is pretty much the only hero with a clear winner in his rogues gallery
>>82904488
>different things are boring
why can't they come up with a villain who's exactly like every other batman villain, that's what would be fresh and interesting
>>82904683
He's not wrong about that; Ra's was created because Denny O'Neil was sick of writing serial-killing urban psychos and wanted Batman to fight a Bond villain.
He's just wrong about thinking there's something wrong with Batman occasionally taking a break from fighting boring urban serial killers to go beat up a Bond villain.
>>82905888
R'as isn't boring because he's different, he's boring because his shtick is that he's just "i am smart dangerous man and you must treat me very seriously bruce because i am your arch enemy and more dangerous than all the other guys." THAT'S boring.
One thing I liked that Arkham City did is that Talia went in over her head thinking she could deal with Joker and got killed for it.
>>82906041
I know what he meant. I just questioned his usage of "Batman comic feel", since these stories are pretty common in the Batman mythos ever since 1970.
>>82906061
That's not his "shtick", he's an immortal alchemist who respects the Batman for it represents, but their world view clashes.
A crazy madmen who thinks killing is funny has a shtick; R'as stories are rarely that similar for him to have a shtick.
>>82904090
Ultron Revolution
>>82904588
muh nigguh
He's usually a fun read (pic related was especially based).
He's one of Superman's more down to earth villains (not a god or a cosmic supernerd) that forces him to think outside the box due to the whole touching thing. A breath of fresh air between more Lex and Zod stories.
>>82907943
Just think, if not for the ban on Batman characters in JL, we may not have gotten the best Question
>>82906061
>One thing I liked that Arkham City did is that Talia went in over her head thinking she could deal with Joker and got killed for it.
No, having Talia job to the ALL-POWERFUL, ALL-MIGHTY JOKER was pure bullshit.
>>82904588
Yes bruv
>>82908777
>ultimate scumbag in the cartoon
>just some janitor who gets powers and decides to be a dick
I loved it
>>82909087
Most of us would probably pull the same shit
>>82909175
Or become the Toxic Avenger.
Which is still be a dick...but only to relatively mean people that make you want to fucking murder them.
>>82901937
They aren't even purple and/or green and hit with some form of chemical.
>>82909217
Hey, you know what they say talk shit get hit
![78703-37119-mysterio[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/znPOWET.jpg "78703-37119-mysterio[1].jpg")
Villains, swerve
Controversial opinion time
>>82905629
>>82906041
Not him, but my problem with him is that his entire organization never seems to actually acomplish anything.
Joker and Croc kill people. Penguim and Two Faces are often mob bosses, but this guy never seems to acomplish that small amount of victory.. BECAUSE the scope of his plans are too big and ambitious.
Do you guys have any recomendation for good stories featuring him? I usually like pulp/bond style villains.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MyE49aW.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
Best of Batman's animated foes
>>82909693
That's not condiment king.
>>82901069
Would Ra's rape the joker? Would he plant his dick in that ass instead of just clowning around with pogo sticks and shit?
>>82901069
But that's not The Riddler...
>>82909892
The BTAS crew didn't use Riddler too much because writing good riddles was a pain the ass
>>82909613
You just have to remind yourself that the League of Assassins is a league of assassins.
They actually spend the vast majority of their time killing people for money and getting away with it without heroes even knowing about it because they're ninjas and the people they're killing aren't, like, the Mayor of Gotham or someone Batman would actually be watching out for.
It's just the big science fair projects he always shows up to fuck over.
>>82909613
Batman: Evolution is pretty cool.
Birth of the Demon is more of an origin story, but it's great.
STAS episode The Demon Reborn.
Beyond episode Out of the Past is REALLY good.
Tower of Babel is good.
The Chalice is one of my favorites.
Batman Contagion/Legacy aren't that good for me, but they demonstrate how powerful Ra's reach is.
>>82909951
Yeah, but the three episodes at are about him are awesome.
And Dini later came up with reformed private eye Eddie and it was god tier.
And his lines of dialogue are one of the best parts of the Arkham games, even if the fucking trophy hunting is way overdone.
Nigga needed to come back.
>>82910242
Mah nigga.
>>82910036
>the League of Assassins is a league of assassins.
That really hasn't been true since Morrison.
>>82909951
>>82910162
They also said it was hard to differentiate his plots from Joker's. They even made a joke about it in "Mad Love" where Joker scraps a plan for being "too Riddler."
>>82910481
They also said that most of their ideas would take two or three parters.
>>82910469
How much of what Morrison did with Ra's and Talia has stuck? Also, didn't a RHatO arc have Jason dicking around with Lady Shiva and Bronze Tiger in the League and they were totally doing traditional ninja clan shit?
>>82910865
Pretty much all of it, especially the ninja Man-Bat bullshit.
>>82901704
Flash has his own villains? I thought he just ripped off from everyone else like Daredevil.
>>82909613
Holy shit, where is this from?
>>82909693
>foes
fucking catwoman is more antagonistic to bats the tas freeze
>>82908777
MY NIGGA!
Live action Parasite when?
>>82909503
THIS.
Underrated as fuck.
>>82911714
Man of Steel 2.
I'm serious, perfect setup. US military has Doomsday's body; add in a little good old fashioned human experimentation and you've got Parasite. Even allows you to pull Luthor back in as he'd be the only one with any idea how to stop Parasite due to knowledge gained from the Kryptonian ship while engineering Doomsday.
>>82904683
To be fair, a lot of Ra's stories feel like swashbuckling adventures, pretty far removed from the urban crime fighting thing.
And that's why I love Ra's, his episodes in B:TAS are all great
>>82902005
Sorry, the comics have to stick with one of the Reverse-Flashes for more then a single run before they become good villains. They keep changing.Admittedly John's Time Travel Shenanigans Reverse-Flashes are pretty awesome villains.
>>82912858
His storylines are nearly all classic Ra's ones from the comics that are widely praised.
Also, David Warner is a fucking fantastic voice actor and can make any villain sound fucking awesome.
Whenever he showed up in Baldur's Gate II he was just fucking awesome with his insane villain rants.
![Mxyzptlk[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/C0osvDL.png "Mxyzptlk[1].png")
>>82908873
I should really go back and rewatch this. I remember the ending souring me on the whole thing, but I think it's been long enough that I can go back and enjoy it again.
>>82913150
Oh fucking please. That little wanker is just a 'the writers got bored'-out of free card.
>>82908833
No, it's fine. Having R'as and friends be GOD KING STRONGEST ENEMY is lame as hell.
Talia and the league aren't that familiar with the rest of Bats' Rogues and they don't mingle that often. The fact that Talia might underestimate this retarded clown isn't completely unbelievable, considering she's always on about how she thinks Bruce is wasting his time with Gotham and Batman.
Joker can job too, but against people that know what they're dealing with.
>>82911746
Word.
Personally, I've always liked Zsasz. For one, people like him actually exist. He's not over the top or weird, he's just literally insane. The Joker isn't crazy by legal standards. He is fully aware what he does is wrong. That's why he does it. Zsasz actually believes he's doing good by 'freeing people' from a meaningless existence. In his mind, he's the hero. That's fucking terrifying. Even in the Batman comics Bruce says he's the most frightening of his enemies. He cannot be reasoned with because he has a kind of zealotry that convinces him killing people is okay.
>>82913979
True enough, but he's still just a dude. Scary as balls, but just mortal. Any cop with a gun could end his crazy ass right quick.
>>82914107
That's all but a handful of Batman's rogues though.
>>82914195
Yeah, but they're always so damn weird. Makes for great comics, but no one is like that in real life, usually. Zsasz at least has real world allegories. And they were actually successful. Of course, we don't have real-life Batman to pound his ass into pudding, or Jim Gordon as an actually competent chief of police who'd just have their asses kicked.
Hard to say if Ra's is the 'best' in terms of the most consistently threatening/entertaining, however I think he is definitely way up there. Morrison understood that most of Batman's other villains, great as they are, run small scale operations and shouldn't really pose much of a challenge. Recently we have seen Joker butchered and overused as some grand schemer with a master plan to destroy Gotham, which undermines his personality. Ra's as the leader of a worldwide criminal organisation works a lot better as a physical, mental, and ideological match for Batman. Ra's wants to make the world a better place, ultimately, and is completely driven towards that goal as much as Batman is, but they obviously take opposite paths to this.
Talia never really worked for me as a love interest, but as the crazy-ex who is the mother of Bruce's child it added a lot to her character. They didn't show it a lot in the O'Neil/Adams run, but it was clear that ultimately Talia would choose her father over Batman, so people complaining about Talia's turn in Batman Inc. don't have a lot of ground to stand on.
>>82914863
She didn't turn in Batman, Inc., that happened all the way back in Rucka's run. The bigger issue is that Talia under Morrison is bland and one note.
>>82914863
Ra's has never really grabbed me as much I'd think he should. Obviously he's Bruce's match. Intelligent, skilled, taught Batman how to be, you know, Batman. He is a world challenging threat because he's Bruce Wayne if Bruce went full-on ratshit crazy, but meticulous and calculating. He sees himself as the hero. He has got some great development over the years. Just, at the same time, he seems kind of hack to me. I can't say why. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on him.
>>82915260
Jesus, speak the truth there. Talia has lots more potential but Morrison just was all thumbs handling her character. She went from a potentially intriguing figure to a kind of cardboard femme fatale.
>>82910469
>That really hasn't been true since Morrison.
So since 3 years ago? That's not a lot of time to declare "the new status quo"
The reason I don't like Talia as a love interest for Bats is largely because she's the same as R'as, she doesn't meld with his usual cast well at all.
I guess I don't mind R'as and Talia just showing up from time to time as dangerous villains, but when R'as is considered Bruce's arch and Talia is considered his true love, I think that's bullshit because they don't really keep up the iconic Batman urban crime noir-ish atmosphere as rogues- and rogues are the most important part of Batman.
>>82915391
A lot of his villains are cardboard either obviously or with a little examination, it's a side effect of his views on superheroes and their role in culture.
>>82915397
Morrison started writing Batman in 2006.
>>82915391
I don't know. What can you really do with Talia? If you had your druthers, what would she be like? I don't think Morrison is entirely to blame, not that I'm defending the hack.
>>82901069
He should be... But in the last decade he's fought the Birds of Prey, the Titans, Angsty Robin and Gay Robin more often than he's fought Batman...
>>82915701
He does have a way of taking potentially cool villains and making them seem so bloody dull. It's like he wants you to get tired of them. I'm reading Batman, dammit, I have since 1989. I know it's campy, but the villains should feel scary. There's no excitement when you can't lose yourself and forget 'Of course Batman wins'. You need to have a real threat that makes you think 'How is he going to win?'
>>82915260
Rucka really butchered the Al Ghuls...
>>82915802
Change the dynamic. Make Talia a mirror to Batman in that no matter how she personally feels about him those feelings take a backseat to her crusade. She might go easy on him or intentionally structure her schemes to avoid Batman because she doesn't want to see him hurt, but if push comes to shove she can live with weeping over his grave.
It wouldn't hurt to separate her from Ra's either.
>>82916202
Nyssa could have gone places. Arrow did a pretty good job with her.
>>82916213
>her crusade
It's not her crusade, that's the problem. She loves Batman but she also loves her father. She's a bland character plain and simple.
>>82916242
She was superfluous and shoult't have been created. She brings nothing new to the table.
>>82909613
That's for turning me on to Future Quest, I didn't count on it actually being good.
What villains of this mold do you favor?
>>82916301
*Thanks
Confound it. Never notice the typo until you click post.
>>82916279
Has it ever been said anywhere that Talia doesn't believe in what her father is doing?
I think a big thing that is never really addressed is her relationship with her father.
Manta a shit
>Objectively
Most definitely pic related.
I don't even think there's any other villain in Green Lantern's(Specifically Hal Jordan's) rogue gallery that comes close.
>>82916349
It's less about believing in it and more about it simply not being hers. She's supposed to follow her father but she was never asked what she wants to do. On one hand she wants to honor her father, on the other she wants to live her life.
>>82908792
Ban?
>>82916430
GL has never really had a strong rogues gallery. Sinestro wasn't even that big a deal for a large portion of his history.
>>82908873
This specific version or Venom in general.
Because this is flat out my favorite Eddie/Venom. His motivation made sense, it did the "evil former friend" without ripping off Harry, and cut out the "Lethal Protector" bullshit to give us an unapologetically villainous Venom.
>>82913587
There's no reason why she couldn't have taken his ass out. She was trained by her father, an excellent martial artist. He's just a sickly crook with a gun.
Plus, she ended up outsmarting him anyways by hiding the tracking device and the formula from him.
>>82901069
I like him because he is pretty much what Batman would became if he went "evil".
The Batfamily is pretty much his own version of the league of assassins
>>82917304
I mean there's the whole "actually clayface" thing, too.
>>82917394
That's kinda funny because that's a correlation only drawn within the last 10 years or so at best.
Before Begins Ra's was a highly competent fighter and planner and dangerous enemy of Batman's but he wasn't an evil opposite or anything and mostly he was just vaguely oriental mastermind villain. Like Kobra but focused mostly on Batman rather then interchangeable between superheroes.
He never even trained Batman at any point as a point of fact and they only met much later in his career.
>>82918579
One of the positive things of having a neverending continuity in comics is that it doesn't matter how characters started but what they became.
Just think about Mr. Freeze, it wasn't until TAS that he became the character people like
>>82916349
She flip-flops.
She doesn't have the same genocidal plans Ra's did, but it's implied that Ra's long life and repeated exposure to the Lazarus Pit is the thing that so badly warped his mind.
On the other hand when Ra's was dead or believed to be dead she had literally zero issues with the League going around and assassinating, manipulating, blackmailing, extorting and basically doing all the shit they did before.
So Talia may not want to save the world by wiping out most of the human race, but she's not exactly a highly moral individual either.
>>82918615
I think Ra's training Batman is kinda dumb.
Not because it's new but because it's obviously a really forced attempt to say "see? They're opposites" when they really aren't and the comparison is false and hollow unless you stretch the fuck out of it.
It's also flat-out pandering to a film series audience who mostly didn't bother to buy into comics anyway, which is stupid on a number of more practical and non-creative levels.
Freeze is an improvement because it gave him a schtick that was yet another Crazy Ice Villain.
Ra's ALREADY had his own schtick and was developed enough without that because he was created during one of the best publication eras for Batman that there has ever been or ever WILL be at this point.
>>82910959
Barry doesn't
