http://moneyinc.com/costs-animation-shows-2-million-make-single-episode/
TRUE OR BS?
Because men oh men, it doesn't excuse the shit animation of Fox animated comedies.
without any research at all, sure why not?
animation is expensive, plus the supporting team
aren't the Big Bang theory actors making a million each per episode?
>>82773581
>TRUE OR BS?
According to people I know in the biz, most of a show's budget goes to the salaries of the writers, producers, and voice actors.
Everyone else gets the peanuts.
It's usually about a fourth of that for regular animated shows, but Family Guy has so many special guests, licensed music, and other factors, that it wouldn't surprise me.
Last figure I always remembered hearing was around $200,000 for every ~22 minute episode. I wouldn't be surprised if that's outdated now though.
It will always depend on the show, who's involved, and how many fucks the network gives about it though.
McFarlane VAs get most of the budget in his shows along with the Simpson cast.
Aside from mentioning licensing, voice actor, and writer salaries, FOX shows tend to have A LOT of animation. It's not very good animation, but think how many times they have large crowds chasing Peter or extravagant Chicken fight sequences or when they draw the entire fucking town of Springfield for one show and animate every single one of those background characters clapping. Or when Family Guy has "slow" jokes like a character crawling out of a room because they don't want to talk to Meg and it's literally hundreds of drawings for that one joke.
The animation is fucking shit but that doesn't mean there aren't tons of drawings going into some scenes. Shows tend to get penalized if they have too many characters in one shot because it just means more drawing/animating, Family Guy and Simpsons can pay off those studio fines and not give a shit. Futurama got fined all the time.
No way is animation that expensive. Look at the countless kid's shows, Adult Swim stuff, and anime that is released yearly like candy. Even the Don Bluth full length movies had a budget of around 10 million each. No way can Family Guy's animation budget be at 2 million per episode. Like everyone else in this thread has mentioned, that money is probably over-inflated for the writers and producers to pick up.
>>82773581
The majority of the budget does not go into the actual animation.
God-tier animation is ridiculously fucking expensive and there's no way anyone could get funding for it nowadays.
>>82773581
Family Guy is expensive for several reasons
>voice actors
>licensed music
>special guest appearances
>use of CG in certain scenes to aid animation
>having to produce many episodes at once to have them all air in time for the fall season, requiring many more people to subcontract the work to, even if the initial crew is 40 or 50 people
>almost inevitably making revisions to the story and correcting errors
Despite all of these costs, Family Guy continues to be renewed because...
>it's one of FOX's highest rated shows and consistently pulls in an audience
>because of the high ratings, advertisers fight for commercial time and are willing to pay big bucks for it ($250K for a 30 second spot last I heard)
>merchandise, even if not nearly as prevalent as the Simpsons' merchandise
And sure, you could probably make an animated series that looks and moves better (not necessarily more fluid) than Family Guy, but the usual issue there is...
>crew isn't large enough to produce enough episodes for a season in a timely manner, cost too much money
>unusual style or customized animation that doesn't look traced off model sheets or among the usual pre-made art assets leads to more errors, requiring more time and corrective work
>completely unmarketable, can't be made into merchandise, advertisers object to show's content or negotiate paying less for advertising during the show's slot because ratings are down
Now I know at this point you'll probably say, "But a lot of animated shows aren't successful, they get like two or three seasons and there's no merchandising whatsoever, and the executives had to know it wasn't going to be a hit. What gives"? I'll tell you what gives - however low television ratings might drop, even if a Nielsen rating of 1.0 is considered "great" ten years from now, as long as those networks are still around (and they will be in managing brands of internet content creators and streaming services), they have to put on SOMETHING.
>>82773581
This is some of the most disgusting bullshit I've ever read. Talk to an actual animator.
>>82773581
the question is why the cost didnt come down TREMENDOUSLY when it went from 'assemble and carefully place sheets of holepunched lucite down on a table, then photograph before repeating the process' to 'save file'
because it clearly didnt, animation budgets didnt change whatsoever when they switched to digital
>>82774609
(cont) because studios aren't about to let that OTHER network gobble up any viewers at any point they don't pick up the slack. Executives want better TV shows, too, they're just happy if a show happens to pull in great ratings/profits even if it looks awful. They may have twenty guys pitch their animated series to them and they have to pick one or two to greenlight, and they have to do it quickly, otherwise that OTHER network will approve two shows and, regardless of their quality, get more eyeballs because their cartoons are simply new, whereas the first network was airing reruns. Of course, that doesn't stop a studio from deciding that reruns will get just as many viewers as new episodes, so at a certain point (usually right before the collective bargaining agreement, or CBA, stipulates that pay raises are mandatory after a certain number of seasons/episodes), they will cancel a series and then air the reruns, which is why maintaining the rights to the show even after it's over is very important. You wouldn't throw away a potential winning lottery ticket, would you? It would really suck if you found another network willing to air episodes from your show that's now in syndication and you can't make that sweet moolah because the rights reverted back to the creator.
Fun Fact! Given the nature of how shows and pitches will start to run together and appear the same, studios don't want to be held liable if they bring in someone to develop some cop show after some guy before pitched a cop show to them. That's why when you pitch a show, you'll be required to sign a contract that makes it so the studio can develop a show with the EXACT SAME PREMISE, or at least a very similar one. This happened to the guy who was trying to get his "Least I Could Do" webcomic made into an animated series. So many tears.
>>82774957
(cont) So yeah, in the glory days, animators from Disney, WB, MGM, Walter Lantz, and others would leave to animate hundreds, several THOUSANDS of commercials through the 1950s and 60s. This was before globalization and outsourcing made producers think to pass these veterans over who knew how to make a snappy commercial in a flash. That was then, this is now. Even then, you had notable Disney animator Milt Kahl telling soon to graduate college animator hopefuls "you missed it".
Still, to keep this from being too depressing, how about you guys go to Youtube right now and look up something like "Rod Scribner commercial". He's done plenty, and his loose, plastic energy still remains from his work on Bugs Bunny cartoons in the form of highly stylized figures. It's really fuckin cool. As a matter of fact, here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du3qGXwfr0E
Scribner animated the first 36 seconds, Benny Washam did the rest.
>>82774449
God those cartoons were gorgeous.
The few modern shows with good animation are already dead or on the chopping block
take WOY for example, this animation is so fluid and flawless
https://youtu.be/cNi2Z7IB4W4
>>82775499
WOY's my favorite cartoon that McCracken's made, just because I feel like it represents how his style has continued to grow and mature. From the anime and Hanna-Barbera inspirations in Powerpuff Girls, to the more 70s look of Foster's (and a robust effort for his first time handling a show that used flash animation), and now to this show, with characters that are made to move well and flourish even considering the limitations of TV. McCracken doesn't seem to be a guy to wring his hands over not having his show look like some fancy, cinematic movie, but benefits from lateral thinking, art from adversity, that kind of thing. Of course, WOY had the benefit of Disney's usual production power, but I think animators will look at Wander for years to come in how to have a show with digital animation not feel like a bunch of art assets simply being puppeted around.
>>82775834
It's also got some of the best voice acting I've heard in a long time, along with a perfect sense of humor and self awareness
it's a shame we wont get another season
>>82776007
It was a nice return for April Winchell, I hadn't really heard her voice anywhere since Recess. I was also shocked to know Keith Ferguson, the same guy that voiced a character I couldn't stand (Bloo) was now doing Lord Hater.
And yeah, considering both of Craig's shows went at least five years, I was really bummed to hear the bad news.
>>82776144
Hell, PPG got a rebootEven though it was god fucking awful
What's to say they can't learn from their mistakes and make a wander reboot someday?
>>82774449
plenty of billionaires in the world
>>82774449
Superman's Batman's TAS
>>82774298
>countless kid shows
It's debatable, and it depends on the show's popularity, quality of animation, worker salaries, and the general complexity of the production at the very least.
>Adult Swim stuff
Have you ever realized how cheap the animation looks on some of these shows? Often it's just a still frame of a character with maybe a moving mouth, eyes, and arms. I'd imagine that it wouldn't take too long to churn an episode. I heard that Comedy Central takes about a whole weekend to fully animate a South Park episode, which is why it's so fast on keeping up with current events by release time.
>anime
Anime often has a fuck-ton of filler to speed up episode production -- 2-3 minute long musical intros (are a given), flashback scenes, recycled frames, slow pans of still background images, camera tricks to divert from animating significant areas, plucky easy-to-animate chibi/expression scenes, and 2-3 minute long credits.
>Family Guy
For a show as popular as this, it would come as no surprise that the workers are going to ask the producers to pony up their salaries if the show must go on. VA's are the real money-making stars of the show, no one gives a shit about the animators.
>>82773827
I'm surprised writers get paid enough to compare to producers and actors.
>>82774957
>when you pitch a show, you'll be required to sign a contract that makes it so the studio can develop a show with the EXACT SAME PREMISE, or at least a very similar one. This happened to the guy who was trying to get his "Least I Could Do" webcomic made into an animated series. So many tears.
Wait, what happened there?
>>82776393
They're spending all of their money on blow and charity donations.
>>82776656
Actually anime these days are better animated than what they were a few years ago. The industry just shits on animators HARD to get it done, infact animators get paid fuck all and often below minimum wage.
Your statements about anime intros/eds are false too. They're a minute and a half at most and rarely go above or below this threshold.
This seems like a good time to post this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTEB1oP3FQE
The first 26-episode season has aired, two more are in production
>>82777955
>income
>college student
I don't understand. Are they getting paid to attend college?
>>82778468
I'm assuming student loans as well as money from their parents.
The animator girl from the show is pretty much fending for herself and it's established that her parents aren't supporting her. It really shows since her apartment is bare as fuck and she has to buy budget food.
>>82774449
So in theory, if some folks put up 10 billion dollars for a 1.5 to 2 hour animated movie they could do decent work?
What sort of money would need to be invested (wasted) for a jaw dropper of an anime or cartoon epic?
>>82778969
It depends on where your priorities lie anon. Fluid animation or detailed artwork.
>>82777955
>cg animators get payed more than traditional animators
putting aside the medium cg in anime is such shit
>>82774125
>Family guy and post movie simpsons
>Drawing
Ha ha
>>82775201
OMG, the animation on that one is so inconsistent, at first is like weird 60s cartoon animation, and then the rest seems liek it was traced by Chuck Jones.
>>82774125
>Tweening
>Drawings
You're funny, anon.
>>82777955
>$9400 per year
Why would anyone even be an animator with that pay?
>>82777955
Why are voice actors payed that much? I assume it's one of the easiest parts of the production.
>>82780853
if i could get a job at all to do something with art i'd take it
>>82781128
you're paying for the voice actor themselves
it could take forever for the director to find a voice that fits the part
and well known voice actors do attract
Classic simpsons episodes had dozens of different locations used in single episodes
>>82782659
Yeah. Next time you're watching a golden age episode check out how many new locations, characters, and animation setups they use.
For example the Hank Scorpio episode had dozens of new designs and assets they never used again.
>>82782721
> movie literally swapped out hank scorpio for in a desperate attempt at more mainstream appeal
Never forget the crimes that movie committed.
>>82780853
Exactly. Thats why there are shows with such bad animation because the animators are either not talented or stretched too thin.
>>82779627
>>82780742
The do draw though. It's too expensive not to. It's just very standardized to look consistent.
>>82773581
>hand drawn animation
>family guy
Welp that guy clearly doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
>>82778468
Interns is my guess.
You have to pay your interns in most countries if they're doing any meaningful work.
Total bullshit. Animation is incredibly cheap since animators started making cels on computers. They spend less time on the art and pocketing the money they used to pay for painting.
>>82781128
IIRC Japan has a sort of VA system where VAs have agents, and with every successive job the cost of hiring the VA goes up to the point that the VA may actually begin to have trouble finding work due to the absurd cost of hiring them. I'm probably getting it completely wrong but tl;dr Japanese animators are really worked hard, and for very little.
>>82773581
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWo5aUzJ4_c
>>82777955
>chief animator earns more then the director
>>82773581
The real problem:
Artists are overpaid schmucks!
i cant imagine the limb rebuilding or whatever it was in that iron man movie was cheap
i remember the list of cg artists in the credits was fucking huge
>>82773581
It's all because of unions.
Unions have killed American animation. This is what happens when you give power to communism.
Capitalism worked, the smart and talented could reach the top and then use their talents and resources to help and direct the other animators time to create all the golden age greats, the hand drawn masterpieces of Warner Bros and old Disney.
Now with unions and bringing down the capitalism, all the animators of US can produce is the new PPG and CGI.
If unions were disbanded, and the pampered and spoiled lazy masses were shown their place and direction, America could be made great again.
>>82776960
On a show like Family Guy they're a lot of the same people.
>>82786053
hey unions worked they just dident know when they had already won
>>82786116
Capitalism worked better.
I think you can't make a proper cartoon with less than 500k per ep.
>>82775499
Sadly the animation is the only good thing about it.
Jokes/characters/plot are all generic and boring.
>>82786053
Look at this >>82777955 and tell me that's a better system.
>>82786053
>.05 shekels has been added to your account
Meanwhile internet animators can make show entirely for free
It must suck being on DisneyXD, getting millions of dollars poured into making a show and having almost no one watching it
>>82786281
No it's the unions that are run by the Marxism shekels.
>>82786283
>3 minutes
>shit animation
>shit VA
>only need 6 months to make
>>82786283
And then they die out.
Or make a let's play show because the YouTube scrap bucks are bigger and better.
Other sources in the past have put the cost between $500,000 and $2,000,000:
http://lineboil.com/how-much-does-an-animated-tv-episode-cost/
The average episode cost for TV anime around the same time wast estimated to be $150,000:
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2011/10/30-1/how-much-does-one-episode-of-anime-cost-to-make
Some sources have put the number as high as $300,000.
At the time they could have doubled that entire $150,000 budget or quadrupled the animation budget and would have only been able to afford one lead voice actor from The Simpsons. And they would have still used less money than even the cheapest production cited in that story.
Do most people involved in anime production get paid little? Yes, but on the other hand American productions piss away money with wild abandon and very rarely have anything to show for it. And to add insult to injury, the animation staff aren't even American.
This is what $2,000,000 gets you in America:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GNPgAQ4SuA
This is what $150,000 - $300,000 gets you in Japan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92cesUa9ORc
>>82775499
>flawless
The character designs and camera work are extremely simple and there's either no shading or very simple shading. The movements themselves are not complicated.
>>82776656
Anime OPs and EDs have been standardized into one and a half minutes, and have rarely been longer than that.
Flashbacks are usually used when they are appropriate (Japanese TV dramas like to use them too). Recycling animation is a very old technique and probably hasn't been really used since the early 70s or so. There are exceptions like transformation sequences.
Camera work can be used to reduce the amount of animation required, but it also serves the same purpose it does in cinema, and anime is made as if it were cinema.
>>82785854
They are credited as "animation directors," and their job is to check the animation drawings for errors and consistency, and send them back to the animator with corrections or correct them themselves. They are also often the character designers (i.e. they adapt the original designs for animation and create a blueprint for the animators). So they have a lot of responsibility and it's apparently a very demanding position.
>>82787175
celebrity cameos were a mistake
>>82786053
>unions are the problem
except it's literally the opposite
>>82786053
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/rick-and-morty-co-creator-justin-roiland-fuck-the-union-103723.html
>Roiland’s claim that they didn’t have time to negotiate doesn’t hold up for other reasons, too. For example, the studio called a meeting with artists to give them the classic “unions are scary” talk. They told artists, among other things, that the Animation Guild offered a poor health plan. Of course, their own company offered no health plan, which was one of the reasons that artists wanted to organize. Regardless of what they told the artists, the anti-union meeting hosted by Rick and Morty LLC’s bosses suggests that they were well aware of the artists’ organizing efforts and didn’t have to wait until the last moment to strike a deal.
>But the artists working on the show were the ones who approached the union for help. Guild rep Hulett writes, “The crew, unhappy about their treatment (they were on 60-hour weeks which made their 40-hour weekly wages still well below TAG minimums) approached us early in the summer and we held multiple meetings prior to a vote for any job action.”
If you don't support unions you are probably a criminal.
>>82788095
Roiland and Harmon sound like fucking faggots. I'm glad I never wanted to watch their shitty show
>>82779263
It's mostly because it's a specialism in Japan. We're talking the post prod effects such as lighting, particle effects and whatnot. Those are manhour-intensive and require a lot of coding knowledge.
In most economies the abundance of a worker dictates his salary. Traditional animators in Japan are a diamond dozen so they get paid a lot less.
>>82786053
Except unions are the reason you aren't right now completely abused as a human commodity. Just because some unions have become corrupt as fuck doesn't mean they aren't a good thing in general
>>82788162
It's "a dime a dozen."
>>82788203
(you)
>>82788162
>post prod effects such as lighting, particle effects... require a lot of coding knowledge
They do no such thing, especially not in a production environment. You haven't had to write your own shaders and shit in decades unless you need something ridiculously specific like Pixar's hair.
>>82788209
If you don't believe me then look it up.
>>82788187
>some unions have become corrupt as fuck
There is not one union in the entire country that is more corrupt than the industry they are protecting the workers of.
Union corruption is a libertrard scare tactic
>>82788214
Depends on the needs of the studio. Sometimes bespoke programs have to be written as and when, such as when the base effects might not meet the director's vision.
>>82788230
I don't disagree with your fist point, but you're a fucking retard if you don't think that unions can become corrupt. Research shit on the Teamsters Union and the Mafia for just one example. Everything created by humans is liable to be exploited by humans, even things that are created with altruism in mind, such as Unions.
Don't think that I am against unions just because there are bad ones. I think they're great.
>>82788312
Why do you think the Teamsters were allied with the mafia?
>arguing about animator unions
Almost all the animation jobs are in Korea now.
>>82788415
>Jimmy Hoffa
>>82788428
No-win situation, either accept long hours for terrible pay or have someone from another country accept it for you.
>>82786222
>Drawn Together
>$700,000 per episode
That's interesting.
I imagine a lot of that was paid to the A-List voice actors (Tara Strong, Cree Summer, James Arnold Taylor, etc)
>>82788505
Or don't pay the voice actors $300,000 per episode, spend the better part of a year working on a single episode, and insist on "smooth animation" even though it looks shit and doesn't contribute anything to the show.
The money and effort is not being channeled into the right places.
>>82788505
If only the government protected its own people instead of chasing globalization
>>82788549
The market is always a reflection of the consumer and their purchasing habits. What you are seeing right now is a result of that.
>>82788560
In some cases the only reason you can afford to eat is because borderline-slavery exists in poor countries.
>>82788162
>using weird expressions in public before understanding what they mean
Wow, sorry but that's like something a little kid does.
>>82788224
>>82788707
>newfags talking shit
Allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go.
Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake.
>>82788744
>>82788805
Yes, and where do you think the diamond dozen thing came from?
>>82788805
>demotivational
What fucking year are you from? 2007?
>>82773581
>Family Guy & The Simpsons costs $2 Million/episode; is shit
>Cartoon Network spends $300k-$400k/episode; is still shit
>Little Witch Academia 2 costs $625k; GOAT anime
>Toei doesn't give a shit about DBS
https://youtu.be/4W87BtYDmAg?t=87
>>82788822
~2003ish, it's been a while..
My earliest memories of this shithole is from Donate Or Die.
>>82788942
Trigger already had the funds for a 20 minute episode, and they asked $150,000 (and received $625,000) to extend the length to 50 minutes. Even if we assume they spent a million dollars on it, it's still double the length of Family Guy for half the budget and with animation like this:
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/17747/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/17740/
>>82789219
The worst part in all of this is that LWA is animated by novices looking to break into the industry. Trigger created it to help these people get their foot in the door. And fox only employs animators who have had years of experience and gained a degree from a prestigious school.
It's fucking hilarious.
>>82789572
And this is the level of fan animation in Japan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ctujLIA8kU
Of course fan animations have shorter runtimes and no deadlines, but when you're giving professionals $2,000,000 and 9 months per episode the results should be, uh, slightly better.
>>82781128
its a commission based job, an actor can be out of work for years before landing a role, so they have to ask a lot of money for it to compensate.
also, the status quo. Once a community has taken a liking to a certain voice, it becomes very hard to replace them without upsetting that community.
>>82774609
Ch isn't inherently costly, depending on how its used, it could save more money than of it was made traditionally. I don't know how family guy uses cg, but for example a show like futurama uses cg only for situations where it would be to costly to draw so scenes with the spaceship buildings or certain creatures.
>>82773775
Yes, but they're supporting it with a fantastically popular show that pushes merchandise very well.
>>82773827
Yes but there are hundreds of people earning peanuts.
It's easy to say the director is getting 10 times what everybody else is getting (he probably isn't, these days), it's much less easy to say we could do without that unit way out over there whose jobs could be put on these three other units for half the money it's currently costing, spread out as payrises. It's the job of the producers and director to decide on who and what they need; if they need 200 people to make the show, then the show is expensive to make because those 200 people, even if they're working for scale, cost a lot of money.
Look at it like this: extras get fuck all. In different countries they get more, or less, depending on whether they have union shops in those countries.
In the US (and for US guild members working on US productions overseas) extras get $342 for an eight-hour day. Each. So if you have a diner scene with 10 non-speaking parts, that's $3420 gone. That's if you get it all done in 8 hours - you need them for 9 or more, it's another $85 or so per extra per hour, until you're in 16+ hours, at which point it's "golden time" and they get $342 every hour or part-hour they're needed - whether or not they're in front of the camera, even if they're napping next to the set.
Which is why you pay for directors who can get shit done in 8 hours or less and still finish everything in time for release, whether that's a movie, tv show, or commercial. If you need to hire kids it's even more expensive, because they're only allowed to work a certain number of hours - so if you need them for longer, your week is longer, and that means the per diem cost goes up accordingly for everybody else you need.
The costs are that high because of the cost of living in the US; that's as high as it is for complex factors well beyond the control of the film industry.
With cartoons -
>>82773827
>>82790511
- it's harder because you have the same problems as live-action for the leads, but you're either paying the stars to do multiple voices or you're paying for extra actors constantly. Your extras are as free as the cost of having them animated, which may well be over $342/day in man-hours to produce the same length of footage, because you might well be hiring five people to do it. If you have a big star, yes, they're going to make a lot per episode; but even an unknown, as a lead, should be getting enough that they can live comfortably on one season for one year, or they're going to find lots of little jobs to take instead. It's an availability problem that you can't solve by getting draconian and insisting they only work for you - you want exclusivity, it costs money to arrange.
The pay-packets of headline stars like your Sheldons and your Seths are very big indeed; and they supplement them with brand deals and whatever, but for even the actors they're facing week to week there's a good chance they only get, in a year, something approaching the US household average (about $50,000). As tv audiences have shrunk over the past two or three decades, pay packets have as well.
It's the same for directors - the big names might be getting seven figures, but the lower end of the scale doesn't pay all that well even on a big-budget movie. The lion's share goes to names who sell in their own right. Now that may be right or wrong in your mind, but without those people, plenty of projects never sell, and plenty of little guys making peanuts have to go find somewhere else to make peanuts. It's the system, and the audiences are just as culpable for it.
As far as producers go - if they're making a lot, it's because they invested in the show and get a cut of the back end and merch. If not, again, they're probably over the US median household in earnings, but they're probably not millionaires, just people who do a boring job.
>>82785368
Absolutely kill yourself for making me give a Movieblob video a view.
>>82786260
This so much, wonder over yonder is boring as fuck.
>>82774957
>This happened to the guy who was trying to get his "Least I Could Do" webcomic made into an animated series. So many tears.
To be fair he deserves any misfortune in life he gets.
>>82786222
>The Simpsons
>$2 million per episode
More than half of that is going to the voice actors and that's ridiculous.
There's no way a single person contributes so much more than anyone else to a cartoon that they should should be getting per episode what several other crew members combined make in an entire year
>>82781128
Every notable voice actor has a largeish fan following, which may translate to extra sales and publicity.
Fanboys/girls tune into trashy shows in the middle of the night just to hear their idols.
There are cases where the fans ignore the show itself, but religiously buy CDs and concert tickets relating to it.
And finally there's Symphogear, where a pop singer (who does anime voices on the side as a marketing stunt) wanted a show of her own.
>>82793953
That's how it works. You get what you can demand. I think the lesser know VAs get shit. Just like real actors. It's a superstar economy. Few earn much and many get almost nothing.
>>82793953
The VA cost for the Simpsons is the price of their dignity and I think it's very fair.
>>82793953
To be fair, they're like ~5 people and they do 3-5 voices each.
It's still a lot of money but split five ways, it's suddenly a lot less.
In comparison Charlie Sheen was pocketing at least 2+ mil/episode for 2.5 men.
>>82779046
Could a Simpsons style movie be done with say at least 100 moving "humans" on the screen who each have an activity they are doing in all the "in public" shots?
E.G. Groups of people eating, watching and cheering a sports show, the sport show shown on the screen, etc.
What are the realistic limits of complexity with an extreme budget?
>>82794710
There's some pretty substantial crowd shots in this trailer (after 1:20 or so), and they don't strike me as being 3D:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhHoCnRg1Yw
You could animate, say, a shot of a stadium crowd all doing different things at 24 fps, and all it would take is time and money. Anything is possible depending on how much time and money you have.
>>82794126
>And finally there's Symphogear, where a pop singer (who does anime voices on the side as a marketing stunt) wanted a show of her own.
Except that entirely wrong. Symphogear happened between Kaneko and Agematsu who had previously worked together on Wild Arms. Agematsu just so happens to be with King's Record and previously wrote music for Nana. Had nothing to do with the VA's.
>>82780853
opportunities.
>>82786222
it's wrong, wakfu had less than half that budget per episodes. while 100k can't really be saved even by the crappiest anime tactics, you get comfortable at 150-200k if you know how to budget.
>>82795737
How? More korean slave labor? Simpler characers that they can't fuck up. Writers as VAs?
Anime tricks like
>people facing away from the camera and don't move >while the camera moves sideways
>while there is 2 frame rain in the front
>so they can basicly show a gif for 1 minute
>>82796080
>for 1 minute
No.
A lot of people seem incapable of saying anything about anime animation without resorting to ridiculous hyperbole.
>>82796183
>NGE
>>82796505
What about it?
![flat,800x800,075,t.u5[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/n2jeyNI.jpg "flat,800x800,075,t.u5[1].jpg")
>>82796815
Click the spoiler pic.Now you basicly know entire episodes.
>>82797076
What are you talking about?
>>82794398
>It's still a lot of money but split five ways, it's suddenly a lot less.
No, you don't get it. They get paid in the ballpark of $400,000.
EACH OF THEM
PER EPISODE
>>82796183
>anime not being deserving of ridiculous hyperbole in regards to their shit animation practices
>>82779263
>3D Animating ten times easier and more efficient than traditional
I wonder why they get more money.
>>82773581
True in that what it contains is accurate, but false by omission. A huge chunk of change go to the producers and executive producers, whose direct involvement in the creative process can vary wildly, but universally claim most of the credit.
Also worth mentioning is that the prime time shows that are the subject of this article have been going on for ages, and writers, producers, actors, everyone in a proper Hollywood union get automatic raises after a certain number of years. The lowly animators who actually draw the show in South Korea do not. If anything, the animation portion of the budget goes down.
There is a lot of greed and waste that drive costs up. Even outsourcing the animation is wasteful if you consider the quality we get from it. If you outsource, you're paying a middleman. If makes no sense to me for animation-centric networks not to have their own foreign operations in Asia.
>>82797999
>shit animation practises
You mean practises that produce the best TV animation in the world for 3-13 times less money than American productions that look 3-13 times worse? Animation that, aside from less drawings, looks better and more interesting than anything Disney ever made despite TV budgets and production schedules?
Whenever people criticize the animation in anime they always bring up the same couple of daytime shows and the same couple of scenes. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the critics never having seen any other shows.
![its-time-to-stop-posting[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4uGFe7t.jpg "its-time-to-stop-posting[1].jpg")
>>82798239
Dear /a/ maybe someday you will realize that most anime are a steaming pile of shovelware.
>>82800660
I'm not from /a/, and they aren't. And someone saying that on /co/ of all places is absurd. It's not like Western animation is in any position to look down on anime.
>>82800831
Name one anime from the last 5 years that isn't generic crap?
>>82800944
Define generic.
>>82801039
>no harem shit
>no mecha shit
>no high school boredom
>no cgi samefaces
>no jap humor ->Oh noes I saw her panties
>no "if every character baws all the time then weebs think it's deep"
>>82801276
So your use of generic has nothing whatsoever to do with the dictionary definition or any reasonable interpretation of it.
Anyway, Joker Game.
>>82774449
George Lucas put up between 1-5 million dollars for episodes of Star Wars the clone wars.
By season five the animation had improved to the point it was so fucking amazing I'd dare to say it's the best cgi animation for an animated tv show. YouTube clips downgrade it to the point I'd say Netflix is the best option for viewing it at its best.
Even so, check this fuckin shit out:
https://youtu.be/-7hBZNsPnyg
Now I ain't saying it's perfect and everything else is shit. I'm saying they had a great set up and had enough seasons to practice and improve the animation style to a T.
Get enough money, time, and passionate people, you'll get gold.
>>82776393
Today's billionaires don't want to put money into anything that doesn't give them back 100 times their investment within a week.
>>82773581
It's still better than most anime I've seen. Even the most popular anime airing still suffers from a lack of blinking and limited mouth flaps. When there's barely a difference in animation quality from an anime made in the the year 2000, from one that's currently airing, there's a huge problem.
>>82801734
There is a bit more to animation than just how the mouth moves. I don't understand why so many people have this weird, seemingly fetishistic obsession with mouth movements.
But yeah I guess this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GNPgAQ4SuA is somehow better than this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SytMT62GFLs because the mouths are articulated and lip synced. Whee.
>>82773581
So?
That alone can go to the actors in a regular sitcom.
>>82779046
what's that anime in the right?
>>82803902
5 Centimeters per Second.
>>82803968
thanks anon
2 million if they only plan to make one episode, you're including a lot of spill over though, production costs that leak into the rest of the season and show as a whole.
It's more than live action, but not THAT expensive. I believe the budget for Young Justice was said to be 10 million for a season at 20 episode seasons.
Now a show like Family Guy and Simpsons are going to be a bit less in terms of production values but a huge deal more in terms of "We've had these actors for ages now and we can't get rid of them, keep raising their pay!"
>>82773581
then why it doesnt look more like this?
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/11966/animated-crowd-kazuhide_tomonaga-running-the_wind_
>>82801734
I think lack of blinking is just a really bad habit.
I noticed it recently and rewatched a few Ghibli movies and even they don't blink in natural. Blinking should be pretty cheap though considering youtube animated productions have natural blinking in them.
>>82777955
I hate this picture. They are Asian, they are paid like shit in general compared to the west. Smart phones and computers would be far more expensive if that wasn't the case.
How much are the animators getting paid compared to other Japanese people with professions that require a degree equal to that of animation?
A nurse in America gets better pay than doctors in Japan.
Think about all the assets that get reused throughout the seasons. When 70% or more of the episode is standing around in the same living room/kitchen.
It's not really the cost of "animation"
