Eight years later, does it still have the title of greatest comic book superhero movie ever made?
I'd say so honestly. Nothing comes close to it in terms of it's clarity and focused structure of it's themes layered throughout the narrative. So much more thought went into building this story than any other superhero movie.
>>82702892
Yes. After SM2, X2 and Ang Lee's Hulk, sure.
Then TDK .
Then in the next tier TWS, BB, DoFP, CW, SM1, Blade, etc.
I'm sure most would say that one of the Avengers is the best.
>>82703019
>Ang Lee's Hulk
You're the first person I've ever seen call that movie great. It most often comes up in conversation of worst comic book movies ever.
>>82702892
You mean the death of comic book movies and degeneration into capeshit?
Sure.
>>82703085
No, it's right up there next to the Dark Knight, and is easily the most underrated one of them all. It's the only Hulk story on screen to explore what the Hulk really is in terms of Banners psyche. It has the most underrated villain of them all too
>>82703085
Ang Lee's Hulk is the only film in which I would actually use non ironically the term capekino.
It never did.
>>82703085
Yeah but recently contrarians have latched onto it, I'm assuming ironically.
Pretty soon they'll say the Halle Berry Catwoman was capekino at its purest form.
>>82702892
Personal opinion, it still holds its water.
>>82702892
>Nothing comes close to it in terms of it's clarity and focused structure of it's themes layered throughout the narrative.
Anon, TDK was a cool movie, but there are others that are in the same category.
>>82703453
>contrarians
Too much dialog and too little explosions for your taste? Let me guess, the "pacing" was too slow for you?
>>82703585
Others attempt it, but the Dark Knight aligns with it's creative vision in a way that no other superhero movie has. Every piece of it's narrative has purpose and meaning in relation to the whole of it.
>>82702892
>comic book superhero movie
Does "The Crow" count?
>>82703007
>>82704070
so what purpose does backing a school bus into a bank serve? and then driving away all willy nilly, like nobody even gives a fuck?
wait, let me guess
>fuck logic, it's capeshit
nah, fuck that movie
>>82705521
It was a subversion of iconography. Joker always hid himself within established symbols of safety or security throughout the movie.
TDK is still best, right. Batman's movie can be beaten by another Batman's movie only. So, even if I dont have faith in DCEU anymore, I still have it for Affleck and his solo movie. So, we need to wait till 2018 or 2019 to see new best capeshit.
>>82705665
I wouldn't call a bus crashing into a bank safe or secure
>>82702892
It is but is a NOLAN movie and a BATMAN movie too so it attracts all the usual haters and even more.
I liked it when I saw it for the first time in the theatre but now it literally bores me to tears.
>>82705810
>I don't get how a school bus is suppose to represent safety
How are you this dense?
It's not the school buses actions that matter, it's what a school bus represents.
Did you forget about Hellboy and Hellboy: The Golden Army?
Come one guys, those were great.
>>82705810
That's the point anon. You wouldn't expect a fire truck to itself be on fire either
Is Scott Pilgrim a superhero?
If the answer is no, we still have Donner's Superman and Superman II. Fuck the other cape movies.
>>82702892
Nah Civil War is better.
>>82702892
Yeah, it does. The only movie that came close to having similar acclaim was Avengers, and it's mostly because of special effects - when it comes to a good story, good acting, good cinematography, The Dark Knight still rules.
>>82706165
Scott Pilgrim was a shit movie based on a shit comic
>>82705715
Mask of the Phantasm is the best Batman movie ever, it's hard to top that. Especially for a guy who's not Batman (see: Nolan's character).
>>82706244
You deserve fucking bvs and tears
This was a Batman movie? I thought it was a crime drama with one guy dressed as a bat.
In all seriousness, I'd say Batman 89 was better. The dialogue in TDK is ridiculous. No human being talks like the characters in that movie do. Not to mention the massive boner for realism takes away a lot of the charm. The source material is fucking dumb, and unless you keep a bit of that inherent silliness, it becomes apparent how idiotic it is when played straight.
>>82706354
I'm not the one with terrible taste in movies and comics, anon.
>>82706406
>muh quips
die slow
>>82706460
You are, mate. And you smell like bollocks.
>>82706296
Well, It's animated movie, so I think it don't count. Still awesome though. But, at my opinion, Under the Red Hood is best animated movie about Bats.
>>82706667
I'm not the Scott Pilgrim fan here. Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries.
>>82703019
I hated that hulk movie, saw it as a kid, too, and i fucking hated it, everyone i saw it with did, one kid actually got sick from the editing
>>82705952
>It's not the school buses actions that matter
why not?
>>82702892
It's not even a 7/10.
>>82706730
And you're ugly!
>>82706806
rewatched that recently, and i have to say the weird Mutant slang works much better in a comic book than it does in an animated movie
>>82706951
Your waifu is shit!
>>82707085
I agree, but it's just world building. The fight scene at the end was literally 10/10 and I think they should get Robocop every time they go for Oldbats
And I only watched it the one time, but I remember it like it was yesterday. The 2nd part not so much
>>82706406
>The dialogue in TDK is ridiculous. No human being talks like the characters in that movie do
Are you talking about things like the "no more dead cops" line? I see people bring this up a lot, and while I can understand where this sentiment comes from, it's ultimately just a misunderstanding of what each character was meant to accomplish in terms of the narrative.
In that scene in question in which Harvey Dent is addressing the citizens of Gotham, the crowd plays a role similar to that of a chorus in Greek tragedies, a group of people acting as a single "character" that represents the population of the setting, in this case Gotham, that serves as a spectator of the actions of the heroes in the story and delivers commentary that expresses the thoughts and emotions of both the hero and the populace.
While it may seem stilted to some, this character is integral to the story as a whole, it's contrast with the heroes to be differentiated from the masses more clearly.
>>82702892
yeah it was cute but BvS was sooo much better
>>82707275
Look lad, it's a film about a couple of guys doing cosplay without really understanding what the characters are about. And no, Heat Legend's Joker is not as good as Jack Nicholson's
It's a fantastic movie, but a terrible Batman movie.
>>82707095
How dare you...
>>82707290
>27%
>>82707337
No, this is all clearly by design throughout the entire story.
>>82707420
>movie critics
>>82707435
It was purposefully dour, boring, shitty and uninteresting? Maybe Nolan isn't such a hackfraud after all, he just hates comic books
>>82707508
>shitty
Language!
>>82707435
Poor design, anyway
>>82707373
I disagree. I think it's a very valid take on Batman that holds true to core aspects of his character, even more so than many of the other takes on him in other movies. I'd even go so far as to say Nolan's Batman was more true to the character than Snyders by a long shot.
Sure, Nolan alters a great deal in order to shape Batman and Gotham to his personal vision, but so did Miller when he wrote his take on Batman, and especially with his Daredevil. They both took the thematic essence of the character and made it their own.
>>82707571
Fuck you you queer ass backwards inbred hillbilly faggy lilttle nigger kike and your landwhale libtard SJW language police
Yes,the only movies to compete with it are CW,TWS and BB
>>82707716
>>82708039
BB is correct
>>82707716
I'm not saying it isn't an interesting take on Batman, but I feel like in the process of Nolan creating his own version a lot of what makes Batman so enduring was lost.It's still far, far better than Snyder's take
>>82708141
>It's still far, far better than Snyder's take
I hated brava nolan's take so I guess no DCU for anon
>>82707508
>>82707609
Nolan is a traditional man who believes in form and structure, both within society and within his stories. He likes stoicism in his characters. I can understand how people would think his movies are rigid in how they unfold, but that doesn't make them poorly designed.
This is all related to the conflict between Apollonian artistic expression and Dionysian artistic expression. To illustrate these ideas, let's look at the myth of Apollo and Marsyas. In this myth, we see Apollo and Marsyas as musicians competing for the adoration of the mortals who listen to them, Apollo representing higher ordered Apolloian music which is defined by it's intricate and beautiful structure, requiring immense skill to perform and because of this demands silent contemplative study from it's listeners. In contrast to this, Marsyas comes in representing lower natured music, played on primitive instruments like bone flutes and tribal drums, requiring less skill and having no structure, but brings out a primal exuberance in it's listeners bodies making them dance and feel the music all over. While this music is less beautiful than the music of Apollos lyre, the mortals are drawn to it and even come to prefer it to the rigidness of Apollonian music. this infuriates Apollo, who then hangs Marsyas upside down from a tree and slowly skins him alive starting from his feet
The point I'm trying to make is that Nolan is in the Apollonian school of artistic expression, and I can understand how people find his stories stilted, but they aren't poorly made
>>82708259
>tumblr
You aren't expecting me to read all that faggy bullshit do you?
>>82702892
No, that'd be Avengers. However, it indisputably has the best villain of any superhero movie, ever, and arguably one of the best movie villains of all time.
>>82708141
What are these endearing aspects that you think were lost? I hate that I even have to say this, but I'm really not looking to shit post or anything. I like that you actually answered and have your own view. I always want to actually have these kinds of conversations, but most people are more interested in disregarding or belittling one another for whatever reason.
>>82708356
I don't think you've watched 50 films put together if you think Heto Legendo is one of the best movie villains of all time.
>>82708334
Do you really care about where it was I saved pictures from on my computer? I didn't even look at the file name, that particular file was simply the size that I wanted
>>82708259
PRDQP.
(check the urban dictionary, you lazy cunt!)
>>82708259
Replies like this are why I keep coming here for over a decade.
>>82708398
You're going to quote me some hack from the 60s or 80s whose wooden acting you're reading as subtlety, aren't you?
>>82708563
That didn't answer my question, and no I wouldn't, did you think I'm from /tv/? I don't even think he's in the top 5 Jokers, live action or otherwise
>>82708654
Meant 3* Jokers, Jesus Christ
nah, this has
>>82707275
>the crowd is a Greek chorus
You're reaching there.
>>82708752
Only there?
>>82708654
>>82708721
I guess we all agree on the fact that Mark Hamill is the best Joker.
>>82708563
Biggest pleb in this thread. Try watching Peter Lorre if you want to see an actual amazing actor pull off great villain roles. Or check out Welles in the third man.
As for the OP, personally I think TDK is the third best cape film after Ang Lee Hulk and Spiderman 2 .
>>82708654
>>82708398
I don't know anon, Ledgers Joker undeniably spoke to something within our culture in a compelling way few other villains in movies have been able to capture. I wouldn't say he's the greatest of all time or anything, but he's a very well crafted villain who had a massive influence.
>>82702892
No That would be The Avengers.
And no because its necessarily a great film (though it is) but because despite it's flaws, it's the closest thing we've gotten to having that franchise's comcics on the big screen
It's absolutely an Avengers comic made flesh. Plot holes and warts and all
Avengers is far from the greatest movie of all time, but it's the best Superhero film ever made because it's the one that has done the best on the promise to put the comic you love on the big screen,
Which is, in my opinion, part, though certainly not all of the reason why it made so much bank. Because it actually put at least part of what capefags liked about the Avengers comic on the screen, without trying to pretend its something its not. Because why would you? There's a reason why they've been popular for 50 years, and trying to change things to appeal to the audience sure as fuck won't capture why.
>>82708791
Fuck me, is there anyone here who thinks otherwise?
>Hamill
>Nicholson
>di Maggio
>Legend
>Romero
The rest don't even matter
>>82708861
I'd gladly fuck you, anon.
>>82708832
Among the reddit crowd. No, honestly, not strawmanning, but if your trying to look edgy he's the go to guy, when he's just your run of the mill anarchist psycho burning shit down. Only he has make up on, otherwise he'd be just some fag Jack Bauer happened to lay justice upon that day.
>>82708907
T-thanks, I-I just wanted you to notice me sempai
>>82708861
>the rest
Who would that be? You pretty much named them all.
The Crow is still the best comic book related movie.
Superman 1& 2, and Hellboy were also extraordinarily good, without the pretentiousness of the Nolan movies.
>>82708933
Jeffe Bennett and Kevin Michael Richardson. Who was a fantastic Clayface btw
![Batman_mask_of_the_phantasm_poster[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yMX3YgD.jpg "Batman_mask_of_the_phantasm_poster[1].jpg")
>>82702892
No.
>>82708752
>>82708785
This "chorus" style of character formed from the populace of Gotham comes into play several times throughout the story, most undeniably in the climax with the transport ships carrying the citizens and the prisoners. It's not an exact replica of the structure of ancient Greek tragedies, but the story most certainly uses groups of people as a singular actor to express thoughts and feelings from a speculative vantage point.
>>82708933
you could count the different comic writers interpretations, no?
>>82708791
>comparing a live action performance to a voice acted performance
Only capefags are autistic enough to do this. You don't see people trying to compare Val Kilmers Moses with Heston's or Ralphie Fiennes with Yul Brunner.
>>82708838
The fact that you're serious worries me. Avengers isn't even top 10 cape film.
>>82708969
Live action comic book films top 5, indisputable list, any who disagree deserves to be taken out back and Sovietly shot
1. Hellboy Dos
2. Hellboy Uno
3. Blade Dos
4. Deadpool
5. Batman 89
>>82708838
The Avengers wasn't anymore accurate to a comic book style, or comic book made flesh than any other superhero movie. It very much wants to be structured like a movie, not like a comic book.
>>82709052
>>82709096
Avengers is literally Transformers with half a brain and less tits.
>>82708378
Well an example that comes to mind would be the interactions and relationship that Batman and the Joker share.
Batman represents an attempt to bring order to his city through the use of fear on the criminal population; whereas the Joker attempts to seed chaos through the use of fear on the general population. Everything the Joker does is a calculated move but at the same time is totally left field as he's an insane lunatic.
TDK handles certain aspects of this correctly (The Joker goading Batman into running him over) and others incredibly poorly (The Social Experiment). Similarly Batman's aversion to death is central to his character in that it's how he interacts with most of his Rogue's and the common criminal - which brings into question why the only villain Batman faces who lives is Scarecrow and the Joker (though the second is left ambiguous as they never mention him again due to Ledger's passing).I'm Britbong meaning it's kinda late, so sorry if these points seem a little disjointed
>>82708838
>It's absolutely an Avengers comic made flesh.
I feel like Avengers 2 has that distinction more clearly. Having the secondary Avengers members like Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver, and having them sole operators rather than working for Nick fury like the Ultimates solidified it for me. Too bad it wasn't a better movie.
>>82709091
>deadpool
>good
Hulk is better than all 5 of those films and remains the only instance where ano actually talented director got his hands on a cape film
>inb4 del taco
He's a hack.
>>82708920
I'm not talking about Heaths Joker in terms of social perception or fandom anon. People shouldn't be identifying with villains regardless.
Especially in the context of the time it was released, Ledgers Joker really did capture the sentiment of disillusionment in our societies intuitions of authority and security that permeated the previous decade after 9/11. He isn't meant to be portrayed as correct, only that he has a point that needed to be addressed, but was being ignored by society.
>>82709241
He's just a prick who went nuts, nothing mythical about it. Take the fucking make-up off and he's literally Mad Stan.
>>82709206
I didn't really like Age of Ultron either, but it at least captured one aspect that I think is vital to the Avengers, that it's more of a social club for superhero types than a formal gathering like the Justice League.
>>82709208
>Hulk
I like Norton's Hulg even though it got shat on by the studio.
>del Toro a hack
Toppus Caecus
>>82709303
You have a misunderstanding of mythology anon. Many very prominent mythological figures are simply pricks that go nuts. Myths aren't all Titanic battles between Gods that shape the earth. Many are rooted in the tragedies of mortals who never become more legendary than you or I.
>>82709404
Hence the
>nothing mythical about it
I added just to make it clear. A crazy fag who likes blowing shit up and goes out as John Wayne Gacy is not the Joker I know
>>82709363
>Del Toro is not a hack!
>they can literally only name one movie to try to prove their point
At least you tried
>>82703084
That holds up terribly in rewatches though.
>>82709052
You meanie, voice acting is a real thing y'know.
>>82709203
That's actually where I feel the movie succeeds the most. Nolan kept a key aspect of Batman as a character that most others ignore, that Bruce Wayne is at heart a very traditional authoritarian idealist type of man who believes in the systems and institutions of authority in society, so much so that he takes the battle for their preservation into his own hands. He's a vigilante, but he is always on the side of the law.
This is the core aspect of which Joker served as a counterpoint to, which I thought made for one of the most poignant Batman/Joker dynamics we've seen portrayed yet. Rather than reflecting Batmans insanity or vanity like in Millers take, Joker reflected the ultimate opposition of Batmans ideology.
>>82709456
Ok, I'll bite faggit
>Cronos
9/10, incredibly heartfelt and smart film, the gothic elements were fucking gorgeous
>Mimic
7/10, Hacked by studio execs. Still a decent watch
>El Espinazo del Diablo
8/10, more like a crossing point from Cronos to El Laberinto, still a fine ghost story with great scenes of tension
>Blade Dos
8/10 great capeshit, Snipes in top form, the make up was literally God tier
>Hellboy Uno
8,5/10, great action film, one of the best pieces of casting in /co/ history, great acting, fun and adventurous
>El Laberinto del Fauno
10/10, literally perfect and my favorite film of all time. I don't think there's a flaw in it,
>Hellboy Dos
9/10, apex capeshit, combined the fun adventurous elements of the first with Terry Gilliam themes, the action scenes were fucking amazing
>Pacific Rim
7,5/10 fun once, wouldn't watch it again, but I liked it
Happy now faggot?
>>82709453
Yeah, my post was in response to you saying there was nothing mythological about it, pointing out that you have a misunderstanding about what is or is not mythological.
>>82709713
The Joker is supposed to be both a fucking madman and a jester. King Lear's Fool gone mental. Nolan forgot to add the humor to it and only made him and edgy /b/fag. Never mind him swindling gangsters which was both dumb and annoying.
>>82708654
You actually didn't ask a question.
>>82710031
Yeah, it's late. The implication was you haven't seen more than 50 films in your entire life.
>>82709667
>10/10, literally perfect and my favorite film of all time. I don't think there's a flaw in it,
Holy fuck you cannot be serious. Del toro is even more of a hack than Cuaron and Innaritu. Pans labyrinth and Devils backbone are his only worthwhile films and they're 7/10 at best. Try watching some reygadas pleb.
>>82706244
This guy gets it
>>82709529
Of course it is, but it can't be compared to live action performances. Hamill wouldnt be able to pull off his joker performance in a live action setting. A large part of ledgers performance was based on his body language and mannerisms. Ditto Nicholson.
>>82709892
There was a good deal of humor with Ledgers Joker anon. I can think of several scenes in which he plays something serious as a joke. It's actually something that's woven very well into his character, framing societal institutions as jokes.
I think you're forgetting that Joker isn't really actually that funny, and in fact most stories reference how stale and unfunny his jokes actually are.
>>82709241
This. Of course any real analysis of him eventually ends in, "He's just a coward with a complex." That's what we get at the end of the movie. What makes him great is that, in the moment, while he's fucking up gangsters and burning giant piles of money and telling Batman to his face that he's powerless, you almost start to believe him. He's a clown; his job is to pull you into his world and make you forget the rules of the real world. He does that with shock and a little bit of dark levity, but mostly by bending down so that he's looking at you eye-to-eye on your level and telling you the story that you want to hear, but bending it ever-so-slightly so that you go in the direction he wanted all along.
It was a brilliant way to write the character and Ledger pulled it off spectacularly. And like a lot of great work, it wasn't just topical, it was prescient.Donald Trump. You beat him the same way, too.
>>82706406
>The dialogue in TDK is ridiculous
>Batman 89 was better
You.... Huuhhhhh... ARE MY NUMBER ONE.... Huuuhhhhh.... GUY.......
>>82706782
Au-Tees-Mo
>>82710425
Nicholson kills the delivery of that though
>Batman beats the shit out of the joker, slams his head into the table, smashes his face into the glass, shattering it
>Literally not single bruise or a speck of blood on Joker's face
Absolutely disgusting. Funny how these supposedly dark movies are really quite tame.
>>82710417
It's one of the few films that has nihilism as a major theme without glorifying it, and in fact thematically overcome and reject. Joker extends an offer of temptation to each character he interacts with to succumb to nihilistic despair after suffering from some loss that left them disillusioned in their ideals. While the movie is dark, it ultimately portrays a victory of law and order over nihilism and meaningless.
>>82710638
The script had that scene as bloody as hell, including the Joker actually spitting a loose tooth out. I imagine it was toned down to keep the PG-13 rating.
My problem with TDK's Joker is how he claims to be all about the chaos, but everything goes according to plan for him. He seems too invincible. Not to mention, his thing about how mankind turns crazy when shit gets real? Yeah, everyone knows that. It's basic human nature.
>>82710993
He's a liar anon. He was calculating every single move he made. His diatribe against order to Harvey wasn't meant to be understood as Joker expressing his philosophical beliefs, he was trying to corrupt Harveys soul and turn him on all the people involved in Rachels death. He even had his finger blocking the hammer on his gun when Harvey flipped to determine if he would die or not. He never left things to chance
>>82708259
that's fucking dumb, beauty is derived from aesthetic value, which is how an experience makes you feel fully alive
if something is incredibly elaborate, but it doesn't make you feel anything, then it is not aesthetic and therefore its artistic value is lost.
>>82712888
Apollonian art is in the realm of dreamy contemplative visions, admiring the intricacies and meaning in the cozy corners of detail breathed into it. Take this painting for example. Enjoying this art is an act of stillness and mental stimulation.
Dionysian art on the other hand is the realm of intoxication, of losing yourself in the sensations of your body, shedding the ornate structure of the Apollonian for a naked primality. Where the Apollonian is crafting a vivid mural, the Dionysian is swearing your naked body with paint and dancing
>>82713248
No, I get the difference, I just say it's dumb going for the apollonian way.
Fuck no.
It's just a dumb action flick with painfully cheesy dialogue, idiotic characters, bad attempts to make Joker scary that all fall flat and all the "Gotham is a hivemind" bullshit. Nolan's movies want to make Gotham itself a charatcer but don't give you any reason to care
about it because all the gothamites are portrayed as idiotic sheep.
It's about as cheesy as Raimi's Spider-Man movies, except those didn't try to take themselves so seriously to begin with.
Unbreakable is technically the best superhero film, so come at me.
