Can we have a thread for characters who were great in their first appearance but have been horribly mismanaged by other writers since? Or characters that started shit but got better under a different writer if you would prefer.
>>82670225
What abut villains that were great for a while, only to eventually become a hollow joke of their former selves? Because Thanos is definitely this.
>>82670225
Zsasz was always literally edge: the character.
>Look at me, I kill people and then tally all the people I kill on my body
Screw the Joker, why hahasn't anyone ever killed this guy?
Arcade
hopeless.jpg
Ever since the McFarlane/Micheline introduction to the character, it's been downhill ever since.
What are his powers again?
>>82671616
The biggest mistake they ever made was changing his name to "download"
Dayum shame.
>>82670225
Zsasz, only works as a one off villain using him more than once is just dumb.
>>82671694
KEK. I was too lazy to change the file name.
>>82671650
He's an expert at AI. Too bad he got fucked over by his friend Albert.
>>82671650
Rape
>>82671616
Came here to post this.
How did he go from being a tragic yet threatening villain to... whatever the fuck he is now?
>>82671421
I've been saying this for years, he literally needs to die
>>82671650
Hilarious adventures
Freeze. Outside his sympathetic origin, he's always shown as a thug or a mad scientist type.
>>82671979
>Hurr let me not check my sources and try to be famous
>Hurr I got fired for not checking m sources, better blame Spider-Man for doing what's right
>What? Peter Parker is Spider-Man? Better threaten his wife and try and kill him for the rest of his life
He has good stories, yes. But his motivation is retaered
>>82670225
But really has Zsasz done anything since Streets of Gotham? Or did anything years leading up to it?
>>82672120
*retarded
>>82672040
>getting his face stomped in by a little girl
>"What's wrong with you people?!"
I laff'd. It's just random enough without being tryhard.
>>82671367
Not much of a fan of space marvel, so how do you mean?
>>82671421
Nigga,Zsasz was fucking great in Shadow of the bat, had great characteristics with Dr. Arkham and was overall brilliant.
He should have been killed or something after his knightfall appearance tho, last time i remember him being good.
I think Morrison had a pretty cool going with Kid Omega. It's a shame that pretty much every other writer has gone with Aaron's wannabe James Dean with t-shirt memes interpretation of the character.
>>82672388
*had a pretty cool idea
So horribly mishandled that they had to retcon him into an imposter and all that really did was make him shittier.
>>82672650
this.
>>82672650
I liked him in Midnighter.
>>82671650
>>82671786
Remember right after Identity Crisis when Light had to keep reminding people he raped somebody once?
>>82672887
Literally why
>>82672978
You do know its a parody, right? Kyle Baker thought IC was fucking stupid.
>>82671650
Maybe if he'd stayed in Kimiyo's body things would've turned out better.
>>82671616
Ironically, Carnage has been doing pretty good despite the shit Venom's gone through.
They'll never re-bond him with Brock, will they?
>>82673508
>tfw Carnage USA brought back Carnage's 90s style mayhem while updating it to modern times
How are they able to fuck up Venom so bad when Carnage seems to be doing fine after all these years?
>>82672371
>Not much of a fan of space marvel, so how do you mean?
He's pretty much the defacto villain for events now. Civil War 2 has him straight-up jobbing to non-binary Carol and is the reason another Civil War is starting.
>>82671367
>What abut villains that were great for a while, only to eventually become a hollow joke of their former selves?
Bane. I don't think he had a decent appearance after Knightfall.
>>82672371
>Nigga,Zsasz was fucking great in Shadow of the bat, had great characteristics with Dr. Arkham and was overall brilliant.
>He should have been killed or something after his knightfall appearance tho, last time i remember him being good.
Most Alan Grant characters got fucked up by other writers. It's such a shame because he really created quite a few interesting villains for Batman, even if most of them were meant to be one-off things.
>>82674308
i think rat-catcher and wesker are the only ones still consistently used to good effect.
Wonder when we'll see Cornelius Stirk or Mortimer Cadaver again tho.
>>82674759
Yeah, but they fucked up with the other Ventriloquists.
>>82674851
Other?
I like Peyton, but there were more?
>>82671650
Asking Mirror Master for Viagra instead of just going out and buying it.
>>82671694
I legit believed you for a second
>>82673083
I thought I recognized that font.
>>82672121
He was in the Arkham games and was briefly in Batman Begins.
>>82674960
There was a New 52 female one.
And I didn't like Peyton. The fact that she was a criminal took away what I liked about the character.
>>82673508
>>82673941
Too bad they won't bring back Carnage-Man.
>>82673941
There's something to be said for being a sociopath killer with no other distinctive traits. It's gotten Joker pretty far.
What's the opposite of power creep? Because that's happened to Graviton pretty hard.
Doomsday
>>82672650
Whats the point of him, again?
>>82670225
I've had an idea about Zsasz for a few years. With the introduction and criminally low use of them, why not make him earth's Indigo Lantern? Picture it, every one of his tally scars burn indigo, and while he attempts to redeem himself through the ring hey burn away.
Indigo Lanterns are given to the worst criminals, it all fits right?
>>82675915
I like this
KGBeast
Magpie
Wesker
Orca
anyone else who got killed in that shit tier story.
>>82672040
Context?
I think he's great in Gotham
>>82673508
Anti Venom Brock is much better than Venom Brock.
Venom Space Knight isn't the best but the end of the previous issue i read was literally Venom wants to be edgy but Flash isn't letting it.
>>82677013
he's good in the arkham games as well, but im talking mainly about comic book continuity rather then anything else.
Abomination ever sin- wait no he's also been the fucking worst villain
>>82675568
power decay
>>82675799
Reverse Batman.
>>82676418
Suicide Squad
>Dr. Light is being haunted by the ghost of the previous Dr. Light that he killed
>The ghost convinces him to take charge of the situation (they were on Darkseids planet), but it causes him to get killed
>They both go to hell, Dr Light 1 for causing the death of his killer, and Dr. Light 2 for his crimes
Now if I remember correctly,
>A powerful but bored demon offers them a chance at life again, if they die the other one gets to live
>Dr. Light (the rapey one) comes back to life but suffocates in his grave
>Dr Light 1 comes back as the shambling mess in the picture, gets curb stomped by christians
>Dr Light 2 comes back and posseses the body of the asian Dr Light, much to her irritation
Somehow he gets his body back and tries to rejoin the Suicide Squad, (much to Amanda Wallers annoyance) as they were the only place he felt he belonged. I believe she just put him back in jail though
>>82679644
>Barda still associating with Granny at all
I'm confused. She still has some loyalty to her fellow Furies, and can even pull rank on them, but the last thing I read, she hated Granny.
>>82671367
All of them?
>>82679827
Lashina was on earth and somehow they roped Barda in to get back to Apokalips. I think they stole her boom tube or something
>>82671367
Bane?
>>82671694
This is the stupidest thing I've ever laughed at you piece of shit
>>82679884
Lashina is also an interesting character on that cover, she's shown in a different color than the other Furies in the background, and is she strangling Bernadeth?
Do I need to track down this issue?
>>82680011
My memory is bad but basically
>Furies come to Earth for something, retreat
>Bernadeth betrays Lashina so she can become leader, knocks her like a mile away and escapes through a boom tube
>Lashina shows up faking amnesia and joins the squad
>Many issues later rounds up some villains and stages an escape
>Somehow Barda gets involved
>Squad, Waller and her assistant arrive
>big battle, Lashina takes her place as leader again
>tries to kill the squad for fun, Darkseid shows up and sends everyone not from apokolips back to where they belong
It's definetly worth a read
>>82672120
>He has good stories
No, no he doesn't.
>>82675799
Anti-Batman, a son of hippie criminals gunned down in front of him by law enforcement who then vows to fight against justice in order to avenge his parents.
>>82672120
Isn't that kind of the point? While Peter accepts his responsibilities, Eddie doesn't and blames everyone else but himself.
>>82675799
Anti-Batman in a world where a shitload of Anti-Batmen already exist.
>>82681294
>Making more Anti-Batmen in a world where the greatest still lives
why?
>>82670225
How about heroic characters that started out good, but got shit under different writers and became shallow shitty villains that's hard to take seriously?
>>82681495
I really can't believe that out of all the shit from that garbage Loners mini that stuck making Phil evil was it.
>>82670225
>be psychologist
>spend your life advocating for the rights of the mentally ill, namely that "mental illness" is a fiction, simply describing people with difficulty adjusting to reality, and almost none are diagnoseable the way cancer is. As a result if people are satisfied with their "illness" that is their right to hear voices or have mood swings, and that coercive theraphy is immoral and should be opposed.
>champion human rights for decades
>live long enough to see some cunt steal your name and make an edgelord supervillain out of it.
It's like if someone heard the name "Thomas Paine" and thought that would make a good supervillain who literally just spreads chaos and fucks shit up because "people don't appreciate what comes too easily"
This shouldn't make me as angry as it does.
>>82681676
>there's nothing wrong with mental illness that's just how they are
Seems pretty fucking evil to me.
>>82682155
how is not compelling people to take medication against their will evil?
how is refusing to compel anything evil?
>>82671421
Batman considered it in the arkham games universe
>>82682183
It's the pills or the noose anon
>>82681495
Fuck i was going to post this, this was one of the most illogical character shifts i've ever seen
>>82681495
>How about heroic characters that started out good, but got shit under different writers and became shallow shitty villains that's hard to take seriously?
Slott can go fuck himself with a rusty knife.
>>82682466
Just whatever to keep his stupid "ock ruined peter's hero life" narrative going, also on topic, slott ruined ock beyond repair
>>82672120
Doesn't Carnage Axis retcon Brock into being right?
>>82670225
Zsasz from Gotham is good
>>82681329
Fucking this.
Killer Moth needs to come back and fuck up Bruce's world.
ITT: Batman villains that never got fixed by appearing on TAS
>>82683060
Did Killer Moth ever show up in those shows?
>>82683333
Never in the DCAU
Checked btw
>>82670225
Ra's
>>82683060
how do you even put Zsasz in a children cartoon
granted they tried to put fucking Pyg in Beware The Batman but come on
>>82683374
>Condiment King
>Random werewolf
>No Killer Moth
>>82683416
Do him like on Gotham I guess. High ranking mob hitman, but with tally marks on the inside of his suit jacket or somthing
>>82683416
Wait was beware meant to be for children that artstyle suggests otherwise.
>>82683374
>>82683333
Was Firefly supposed to be their Killer Moth standin?
>>82683422
I love Condiment King.
>mfw this thread
>>82675799
>>82683557
He was great. he didn't die did he?
>>82683609
Nope, he's just not shown up for a while
>>82682183
>how is not compelling people to take medication against their will evil?
Because they NEED that medication, and their brains are literally malfunctioning in a way that makes them think they don't. Not forcing them to take it is 100% evil. It's like seeing a baby playing with a loaded gun and going "eh, the baby has free will, I'm sure he knows what he's doing".
>>82683422
>>82683451
>Condiment King will never get his own story arc or event
>>82683832
There was some book he was in where he was in a team. I wish I could remember what it was
Condiment King rules.
>>82670225
The first appearance of Zsasz portrays him an the more affable, intelligent, charismatic, Ted Bundy-type serial killer. Since then, it seems that he's morphed into the "unstable and not-too-bright psycho"-type serial killer. I like the original better.
>>82674224
>I don't think he had a decent appearance after Knightfall.
Bane was always excellent under Dixon you filthy pleb.
>>82684331
This
>>82674759
I really hate the new52 Palmiotti revamp of Rat-Catcher. What was wrong with the old version?
>>82675915
An interesting idea if Zsasz was put on Suicide Squad for a short while. The ring should be short circuiting or something a little, just so you don't completely re-write Zsasz as a character.
>>82684355
the only thing Dixon was able to do was Dickwanking
>>82671616
this right here
>>82684462
>New 52 Killer Moth
Has there ever been a villain who whenever you say his name backwards he has to give you a blowjob?
>>82684634
why is New 52 so bad
>>82670225
how did we go from this
>>82684670
to this
>>82684689
to this???
>>82684645
New 52 Killer Moth or New 52 in general?
>>82682558
Slot ruined Spiderman in general beyond repair. He's completely trashed the entire Spider mythos during his decade or so run, from retconning the origin to push his shit OC'S to straight up killing the rest of the multiverse Spider-Men. It's going to take nothing less than a miracle to fix Spider-Man once Slot gets his grubby little fingers off the title.
>>82684706
in general
But what did they do to Moth? Is he still a Mothman?
>>82684634
New 52 version is hardly as bad as Underworld Unleashed revamp where he became a giant moth monster called Charaxes
>>82682558
>an intelligent, dangerous man who depending on writer has a semblance of honor
>becomes a complete one-note evil joke idiot because that's Slott's idea of an entertaining character
Superior was absolute garbage
>>82684729
Slott's done some boring to bad stories but nothing particularly irreparable.
Sublime: was only credible under Morrison's writing, anyone else he's a turd
Morlun: Was only good under JMS. The moment Slott's taint got him. He became Madara/Aizen/Naraku tier
>>82684743
>>82684816
Has anybody beyond Wood even used Sublime?
>>82670225
Batman.
>Batman now has love-hate relationship with the Joker
>Gotham exists to create the Batman as an eternal machine instead of Batman being a symbol of hope for Gotham
>Batman turned into a sociopath
>etc.
>>82684853
what in the ever loving fuck
>>82670225
whenever you see this in porn its usually indicative of home any times that person has had someone dump cum in them
what a lewd man
>>82684853
why are they so against bright colors now
>>82684913
>whenever you see someone carving tallymarks into their skin in porn
i don't think that happens much
>>82684943
depends what porn you look at friend
its literally my fetish
>>82670225
He was great in the Arkham games. Literally the most fun side plot in City.
>>82677670
Abomination was boss as shit back in the day. then he became nothing...I'm sad now.
>>82684966
>>82684913
Dude, good taste, that shit is hot.
>>82685064
>the movie didn't even let him keep his big elf ears
>>82684966
>its literally my fetish
how is it called?
>>82685056
I was going to say this. It's one of the only times I've seen Zsasz portrayed as smart.
>>82683446
Yes and no. More along the lines of YJ and GL, which got away with a bit more.
Though even Beware's Pyg got a bit fucked up by the time of his final appearance.
>>82683416
Spider-Man TAS did it well with Cletus Kasady.
It's obvious to everyone that he's a monster with countless lives on his conscience (or whatever there is instead of it), but not much is shown and you get hints like "not even newspapers would print about things he's done"
>>82684729
Just retcon OMD, it will nulify everything brand new day, as it should be
>>82683060
How about villains that were fucked by B:TAS?
I'll start: Hugo Strange.
>>82684816
Morlun wasn't interesting in jms run either, shathra and ezekiel were way more intriguing
>>82685944
How was he fucked up beyond his design?
however, pic related
>>82685696
Haha that was so stupid, of all the bizarre shit that series did , carnage stealing souls with a jar takes the cake for me
>>82684355
I don't remember reading any Dixon story featuring Bane after Knightfall. I'm not doubting you, I just never read it. Everything else I've read with him was shit.
>>82685991
They made him some lame-ass mad scientist that was easily fooled by Robin, instead of one of his more persistent foes in the comics.
JUST
>>82684816
Sublime sucks. Morlun sucks.
>>82684729
>retconning the origin to push his shit OC'S
Wait what what did he do
>>82686396
>Wait what what did he do
He completely changed the origin solely to justify creating Silk. Remember the radioactive spider that bit Peter, and how it died immediately afterwords? Yeah, turns out that spider never died, and bit a girl as well. And turns out that girl managed to get more powers than Peter, and they get extremely horny around each other for no particular reason. It's like something straight out of a teenage girls fanfiction.
>>82686593
Oh god
>>82684531
yeah but he would essentially just be a white Ravan on the sqaud.
>>82686593
I totally forgot about that somehow.
Might be my brain forcing the memories down.
>>82686593
I was expecting something that would make me rage but I need to puke more then anything
>>82671786
That's not a power. That's a right.
>>82686593
At least she improved once she got her own ongoing, she was fucking unbearable in ASM. It still is one of the worst origins, especially with the horniness factor. It's just so fucking derivative that it kinda ruins any future hope for the character. She'll fade into obscurity in the next 2 years, and then have something shocking appear to her in an event in 5 years. Like she'll be turned into a spider and sent back in time to bite herself, or become pregnant with a supervillain, or become a bomb that will destroy the solar system.
>>82671421
BATMAN!
GODDAMMIT YOU FRUITY SACK OF FRUITY PEBBLES!
WHY AREN'T YOU RAPING MISTER SASSAFRASS?
>>82688155
Uh Gordon? That seems a bit difficult to do. I mean, have you seen his kill count? It's all over his body, man.
>>82674224
>Bane of the Demon
>Secret Six
>>82671421
>serial killer is edgy
I think they're allowed to be edgy anon
>>82685056
I fucking hated him in the Arkham Games. City would have been 10/10 in my book if instead of taking him out with one punch the game allowed me to just pummel him for an hour.
>>82673508
They will rebond once it happens in the movies
>>82672887
>These black leather briefs make my butt itch
>I'll tell Alfred to buy me some panty liners
What the hell am I reading?
>>82683957
Final Crisis Aftermath: Run.
>>82686382
Hey, Shiva was solid through the mid 90s. It's only in like, the last decade or so she's fallen apart.
>>82685096
Why Marvel hates so much Abomination now?
>>82686382
>Lady Shiva is one of the most dangerous people on earth, 52 was a proof of this
>New 52 happens
>Lady Shiva is still portrayed as one of earth's most dangerous people
>Got stopped by Harley Quinn with a shoot in the ass
>Literally in the middle of the ass
New 52 was a mistake
>>82681676
His name was literally just chosen because they saw his name in a library.
>>82672650
He was great in Midnighter though.
>>82686131
Read Vengeance of Bane 2, and Bane of the Demon. Also, if you've already read this and hate it I'm just wasting my time, but I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest checking out Gail Simone's Bane from the Secret Six mini and ongoing. It's difficult to write Bane after he's already defeated his white whale.
Difficult.
But not impossible.
>>82691370
Remember when Jason one shotted her
As shitty as she was in Nightwing, at least the writer had her beat the crap out of Dick like she's supposed to
