As someone who's never followed Ant Man in the comics all that closely, how do the movie versions of Hank and Scott compare to the comics?
>>82651349
You know how fucking crazy Cross was? More or less what became of Hank. They basically just used what Hank became and turned it into the villain of the film.
A lot easier to take in, the comic Pym legacy is all sorts of fucked up.
>>82651409
he hit her ONCE
>>82653171
While in the process of stopping her from telling the Avengers that he built a robot to kill them.
>>82653219
Oh c'mon, Ultron wasn't THAT bad of an idea.
>>82651409
Cross was like a meatbag version of comic Ultron than anything else.
>>82653281
Not Ultron, that was an accident. When he hit Jan it was to stop her from telling them about Salvation-One, which he built to try to kill them so he could show up and defeat it so he could be the big hero who saved the day.
>>82651349
Comics Scott is very generic. Movie made him a bit more of a goofball.
>>82653346
Look can we all agree that was ONE time! He hasn't done anything wrong.
I have to ask, why is the evolution of helmets in the Marvel world seem to be
>Sliding facemask
>Detachable facemask
>Magic Stark thing
>>82653346
What the fuck, Hank.
So, is that whole "Shrinking destroys your mind" thing a fabrication of the movie, or was Hank's not really wearing a helmet often a serious problem for him?
>>82653346
And yet slapping Jan is the incident people remember.
Pym-particle users have gotten to the point where they don't require a suit or button to shrink. It's basically become a super power after prolonged exposure.
>>82653219
>>82653346
And it was a shit thing to do on his part but he ended up paying for it amd regrets it more rhan anything not to mention Jan forgave him and both moved on.
In comparison Cross is a psycho with Pym daddy issues, if anything he is more like Ultron.
>>82653472
No. In the comic, Hank is Bipolar. Which is why he does fucked up shit.
>>82653433
I wish I saved it, but someone made a very good writeup on /co/ once about how Hank is basically a villain at heart trying his best to do good.
>>82653472
Comics Hank has really bad mental problems. Bipolar, split personality shit. The movie decided to blame this on the Pym particles.
>>82653534
Originally he was an insecure troublwd scientist with a size complex who had a mental breakdown and some chemicals being spilled on him fucked him up good to tje point he developed another pwrsonality (Yellowjacket) then the bipolar thing was added by Humphries and then the whole "Hank was a special kid who only his grandma Angela understood" backstory was added later too.
>>82653527
To the point that prolonged exposure causes them to be able to naturally produce it.
>>82653575
Which means Scott and Hope will go crazy too.
So which did you guys prefer? Ant-man suit or CW suit?
>>82653690
CW helmet, Ant-Man costume.
CW costume is way too fucking busy.
>>82653690
Ant-man suit but I can't put words to why
>>82653690
Cw suit
>>82653690
I like the Ant-Man suit more, but prefer the Civil War helmet.
The rest of the Civil War suit is by no means bad, though. Just not quite as good as the Ant-Man suit.
>>82653690
I didn't even know that they were different.
>>82653529
Did Jan and Hank ever get back together after that? Or have they been broken up in comics ever since?
>>82654673
Hank obsessed over her after she died(?) trying to bring her back, but when she did come back, they never got back together.
>>82653651
didn't Hank say the Ant-Man helmet protects against that?
>>82655044
Yes, but it's not clear to what degree. Hank didn't seem to start to lose it until years into his career, and never went that far gone except for the occasional somewhat justified head punch. Cross went straight up murdering psychopath within a few days/weeks. Hank also said that even with the helmet, he can't use the suit anymore.
So it seems like even with the helmet, you still get Pymitis after several years of heavy use.
>>82653559
>>82653690
Ant-Man suit.
>>82653346
He wasn't even trying to hit her. By Jim Shooter's account, he wrote it in the script as being more like "Hank is waving his arms and gesticulating like a crazy person and he accidentally hits Jan."
Then the artist drew it in the most dramatic way possible.
>>82655285
He should just go full supervillain on a permanent basis.and Ultron should become a hero just to spite him
>>82655629
>Ultron joins the Avengers when Pym tries to shrink the world
>>82653171
He tried to hit her before that while she was in shunk-form, and then used her to test out his murderbot he was going to use to con the Avengers into thinking of him as a hero again. He had completely gone off the deep end.
>>82653690
I love love love the Ant-Man suit, it looks like Hank built it in a garage on weekends. The CW suit looks way too clean and superhero-y.
>>82651409
Naw Tony is what Hank was in the comics. The whole insecurity and self worthlessness came from Hank.
>>82655272
Wasn't Cross also working off his own variant of the Pym Particles or am I just making that up?
>>82655285
I love the idea that Peter Parker was going to somehow end up like Doc Ock. A mad scientist that wanted to prove everyone how great he is. But Uncle Ben death made him change his life.
Like with how before the spider bite he said he would teach them all someday.
>>82656083
I don't think that's how MCU's Peter is. He doesn't seem the type.
In the comics, even after he became a superhero, his personality didn't do a complete 180 over night. To be honest, the idea that modern 616 Peter and the Peter from way back when the character was introduced are the same person is almost unbelievable.
>>82653219
It wasn't built to kill them; it was built to fool them into believing they were in danger, so he could swoop in and save them. Still a dick thing to do; crazy and selfish, but let's not pretend he intended them any harm.
>>82653529
It's important to note that this was a fuckup on the part of the artist. In the actual script, Hank is described as gesticulating around as he's shouting, not paying attention to what he's doing, and one of his hands hits her in the face as he makes some grand sweeping gesture mid-rant. The artist did a VERY poor job of capturing the writer's intent with that panel.
>>82653575
The comics did that too actually. More of a retcon though to give Hank some of his superhero cred back.
>>82656597
Should of had him facing away from her.
>>82651349
post-movie ant-man comic is very movie accurate
>>82651349
Hank Pym should be the next Ant-Man movie villain.
Have him steal Stark's base programming for Ultron to create a new Ant-Man/Yellowjacket suit that can control mini Ultron-like ant drones with a hivemind system, under the guise that "he'll be a superhero" in place of Scott and Hope. In actuality, it's his insecurities and inferiority-complex over Howard Stark's legacy that's causing him to go nuts. He blames it on the faulty tech that is Ultron which Stark built but later realizes that it's just a shell protecting the broken man inside.
>>82656652
Fuck off Wright. There's no need to make Hank a villain
>>82656526
Haven't seen CW so I don't know how they did Spidey in that but rereading Ditko's Spidey run its fun to see him as this highly selfish punk that keeps wanting to prove how great he is. It's just that he slowly matured while in high school and became a better person.
>>82656597
The writer also voiced his regret over this, and he feels really bad for the rep that Hank built because of that fuckup on the artist's part.
Specifically for Hank, this image does a good job of sumarizing the first big chunk of his life.
Afterwords things got worse. Then better, then WAY worse, then kinda better, and now he's fused with Ultron in some anime ass bullshit to find inner peace or self worth or some shit like that.
Lang in the comics is closer, a bit less goofy and more serious, his daughter's also considerably older.
>>82656597
>>82656624
Or have the first panel or two with him waving around like a maniac.
>>82656652
>Pym
>lowering his standards enough to use something made by a Stark
>>82656665
With Ultron having daddy issues and Hank feeling "small" (sorry didn't really mean to make it a joke but it is the best term for him). Them coming to grips with each other like that might be for the best.
>>82656665
>now he's fused with Ultron in some anime ass bullshit to find inner peace or self worth or some shit like that.
Rage of Ultron was good and you know it.
>>82656706
>Pym
>use something made by a Stark
>not making better use of it and improving on what it was before because of his own ego
>>82653559
>>82655588
This. A thousand times this. It's the artist that fucked up, and Pym paid for it for years.
>>82656694
Yeah, agreed. Poor execution on both sides there, but it's so cemented in the minds of most readers at this point that there's nothing much that can be done about it now.
>>82656728
Sorry, that came off more negative than I meant it to.
I said anime bullshit in the most positive manner.
Sounds like the movie versions are more likeable, reading all this.
>>82657029
Nah. Hank is super likable.
He's one of the biggest fuck-ups in comics, but that's what makes him interesting. He has given up a lot, but he always keeps trying, and he's incredibly humble about everything. He has some pretty serious self-image issues, and just ends up being really adorable. Plus he's just a dork.
>>82657029
Hank is likable. It's just writers have a bit too much fun with him. Using his flaws to a degree you really never see in comics.
The problem is that no one really took him seriously so to make him interesting they made him kind of crazy.
I think I read that Lee thought of putting Ant-Man in the Avengers mostly because it would be weird and make no sense. So even before writers really got their hands on Hank everyone already felt he was pretty useless as a character.
>>82655645
>>82655629
>>82655629
I am so hard from this idea, go on.
>>82657029
Personally I like both. Movie Hank feels right for his limited role but comic Hank makes for one hell of a fun ride.
>>82651409
Which makes considering in Wright's version, Hank Pym was the villain.
Given it's in fact Ant-Man thread:
Can someone give me a basic Hank Pym must-read list?
>>82658205
Wait really? Fuck now something like this needs to happen even more >>82656652
Serious question though, which other villain could they use that would make as good of a conflict for Scott and Hope?
>>82656765
So Hank became a villain because his wife was a writers waifu?
>>82658250
Don't think that's true. Honestly what I think happened was that Hank was a joke at Marvel. They kept him around because to them Hank was just one big joke. Wasp however people felt they could use her in other stories. So the plan was to have Hank go crazy and Jane leave him so they can use her without really needing Hank. But leave it open for Hank to redeem himself later on. However as been pointed out the art kind of fucked that up where no one liked Hank anymore because of what he did to his wife.
>>82653305
huh, never thought about that. he really kinda was huh
>>82651349
Pym is one bad day from becoming a one of the greatest villians in history unlike reed who is confirmed a villian
Wake up sheep Richard's must be stopped before it's too late
>>82658760
It's a shame because by not being literally Ultron, the idea kinda flew over a lot of people's heads.
All this talk of Hank Pym being an unwitting villain kinda makes me wish he gets turned into one in the MCU just because he was robbed of his Ant-Man/Giant Man role.
>>82658772
Shut up Doom you can't even cuck him properly
>>82653690
I like how the helmet looks vaguely Ultron-ish.
Now if they could link Pym to Ultron again.
>>82658772
I would read the hell out of an Ant-Man story that centered around a horrible day, leading to him destroying the Fantastic 4 and the Avengers
>>82658824
The person who stops SuperHank?Gwenpool
>>82658814
>Now if they could link Pym to Ultron again.
>Pym literally turns himself into an Ultron-lite
Rage Of Ultron adaptation as an Ant-Man film when?
>>82658714
>Wasp however people felt they could use her in other stories.
Sounds like she was their waifu
>>82659259
Tiny little pixie women? You can bet some of them were waifuing her.
>>82656652
>Have him steal Stark's base programming for Ultron
Stark had no programming for Ultron.
I don't get how everyone keeps pretending like Tony created Ultron, while really all that happened was that he had some sort of a basic concept for Ultron and then plugged an alien A.I. into his servers, not realizing that A.I. could casually self-activate.
The only thing that makes Ultron Tony's in movie, is that Ultron was born in Tony's server downloading his data first before infecting the entire internet.
>>82657124
So he's Raimi Peter Parker if he was also Scientist Supreme?
>>82659637
The basic concept being the Ultron program, right? I forget, but was it supposed to be an AI like Jarvis? Or was it less than an AI and the Mind Gem was supposed to provide the "intelligence" to be infused with the Ultron program's directives?
>>82659729
It basically went like this the way it's established in the scene
>Tony calls in Banner
>They talk about how A.I. may be within reach, and it's exactly what they would need to make Ultron a reality
>Tony shows Banner the brain map of the A.I. he found inside the sceptre that after loading onto the servers from the Mind Stone
Later in the film, Tony even mentions that they didn't even have an interface to that A.I. so while it's not 100% clear exactly how far along they were with Ultron, it is clear that the intelligence, the actual software was not Stark's creation. Ultron just used whatever resources Stark prepared to be used in his vision of Ultron
![P8N7ZPg[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TUXQfZD.jpg "P8N7ZPg[1].jpg")
>>82655629
>>82655645
Best part of Old Man Logan was nice Ultron.
>>82658218
I don't have a list, but Avengers Forever is solid. There are two Hank Pym's on the team, one more stable, one convinced he murdered Hank Pym.
Plus, there is a storytime of it right now: >>82647903
>>82659637
Tony and Banner had literally mapped out the idea for Ultron before even using the Mind Stone. They just happened to use the Mind Stone's neural network as the model for the A.I. Ultron was, for all intents and purposes, a Stark creation. His mental processing was simply modeled after the neurons derived from the Mind Stone.
>>82653363
I think he has gotten a bit better in the new run
>>82656083
That's more or less what happened to him in Spider-Gwen.
>>82659981
>I believe this is yours, Captain America
Ant-Man was great in CW
>>82661447
I remember reading but what was the context behind it again? As in, which Ultron was this?
>>82658824
>Ant-Man kills the marvel universe
>>82663775
>Ant-Man accidentally kills those two groups
>Realizes what he's done
>Goes into a mental breakdown and figures the world must be fiction
>Hatches the master plan, that if the world is fiction, then there is an author. If Ant-Man killed the Avengers and Fantastic 4 on accident, the author should have restarted from an earlier point in the story, but the author clearly hasn't, probably because there are many other characters to write about
>The only way to restore the world to a previous state, is to kill everyone so that the writer has no one to write a story about, and has to scrap the events of the recent past
This reverse thing could work.
>>82659637
>>82659637
>I don't get how everyone keeps pretending like Tony created Ultron
>>82660405
>They just happened to use the Mind Stone's neural network as the model for the A.I.
To this day I have absolutely no idea why they didn't go with the brain scan idea that Pym actually used in the comics.
They should have had Stark fill in all the blanks with a copy of his own brain patterns. And that would naturally explain why Ultron ended up being so much like Stark. Just like it explained why Ultron ended up so much like Pym in the movies.
It is completely beyond me why they did something else.
In the movie all you basically had was Ultron ask who created him. To which he gets the answer that it was Tony Stark. After which he essentially makes a google search of Tony Stark, and that essentially makes Ultron like Tony Stark somehow? To his own dismay?
It makes no sense whatsoever. Did he imprint on Tony Stark like a baby chicken while on google and thus absorbing all of his bad habits or what? And if so how would that even make sense?
They completely and fully botched the creation of Ultron in the MCU. In spite of the base idea being so very simple.
>>82664655
I heard something about using Tony's brain patterns for the AI was in a deleted scene, but I might have imagined it.
>>82653219
After warning her to leave him the hell alone. Keep in mind that during that time he was so insane that he legitimately thought he was some other dude that had murdered Hank Pym and Janet used that an an opportunity to trick him into marriage. Very rarely does anyone bring something upon themselves to that degree.
>>82655588
>>82656804
Don't be so eager to swallow Shooter's obvious backpedaling. Jim wrote Hank as someone who'd hit his wife and blamed the artist when people complained.
>>82658906
>Rage of Ultron adaptation
Oh fuck yes
>>82658218
>>82653690
So is this 1/16 of his Giant-man form? Or of his Ant-Man form?
>>82669856
>>82653346
absolute madman, gotta love im
>>82656765
The more I hear about Shooter man...
>>82656765
>MODAM is Hank's first wife
OH FUCK
>lol jk
oh
Well at any rate MODOK suddenly sounds more likely for Ant-Man and Wasp so yay I guess.
>>82653690
I prefer the look of the Antman suit but the CW suit makes him seem more official/A-list so I think it fits
>>82663634
A Vision mini I think.
He also cameod in the Ultron arc from Busiek Avengers.
Hank seems to less of a dick than richards.
>>82659981
We saw bit of good ultron in hail hydra.
>>82658824
I always had an idea for this, basically rededicating himself to hero work, upping the Ant-motif, and basically going out of control.
Engineering a new breed of bio-mechanical super-ant, that can fly and shoot lazers and all change size at will and everyone ever where is directly wired into Pym's brain, and he starts setting these fuckers up everywhere. Then maybe he makes an island secret base called 'The Colony' or something, and maybe gives himself a more iron-man like suit of armor, with a very strong Ant motiff, starts calling himself The Ant King, it writes itself from here.
>>82653690
Ant Man Suit
CW Helmet. Pretty clearly the best choice. Not sure if they'd mesh together properly.
>>82670013
I really love Yellowjacket, but also really hate when Writers just use him like one of Hank's other costumed personas.
Yellowjacket was literally a split personality, and I would argue, Hank Pym's greatest villain. He's to Hank Pym what The Green Goblin is to Norman Osborn.
>>82660237
>>82669516
Thank you. Gotta start reading.
>>82656765
And if I got right we're getting now his and his first wife's daughter Nadia/Hope.
>>82658230
Ultron
i dont care that he already appeared
have Pym find a back up from AoU and have him retry only this time hes actually good
>>82653690
Put the belt of Ant-man on Giant-Man and I'm done.
>>82671669
Jesus Christ, that warped Pym is gonna stay with me.
>>82656083
All it takes is one bad day, anon.
>>82658760
Daddy issues and short-sighted planning aside, not really.
>>82653529
Why is Jan wearing a négligé with a cape?
>>82656665
I've been reading some Silver Age Avengers and Jan is such an annoyance. Her character is basically just "teehee I'm a girl, I'd rather go to the hair salon or hump Thor's leg than do heroics"
>>82653305
>tfw Ultron from the Ultimates comic was just literally Yellowjacket and had a crush on Wanda
>tfw MCU Yellowjacket has 616 Ultron's backstory but with 616 Yellowjacket's general appearance
>tfw MCU Ultron has Ultimates Ultron's fixation over Wanda but 616 Ultron's general appearance
It all lines up in a weird fucked up way.
>>82658814
>Now if they could link Pym to Ultron again.
Honestly I think it's time to let that go.
Any link established after Ultron's creation would seem hamfisted and would really only be here to appease a very small subset of fans that are still upset.
>>82653363
Nick Spencer's Ant-Man is more in-line with the movie version.
>>82671115
Nah. Reed did a lot of good.
I'm not sure who started making him a dick beyond preferring science to his wife, probably some Doomfag writer.
>>82653690
I legit don't understand why people prefer the CW helmet.
>>82675845
Not gonna lie, but I'm really enjoying the current run of Ant Man, it's one of the books I look forward too every month
>>82653171
He hit her in the Ultimates universe also.
>>82676158
Why does it look like it's played for laughs?
>>82676259
Ultimates is full of dark humor.
>>82676158
He eventually did end up sacrificing himself for her. Though we never got to see the resolution.
>>82676259
Welcome to Millar.
>>82676125
More streamlined, the visor shape is more serious.
Also, it looks like a Kamen Rider helmet. I like that.
>>82658205
Except that's a complete lie spread by /co/. Cross was the villain in Wright's draft too, he was just called Nano Warrior instead of Yellowjacket.
>>82676815
You gave 3 reasons why I like it less.
>>82658230
Justin Hammer + nanomachines.
>>82675472
See, a lot of people feel like this, and I don't disagree, but Jan is one of my favorite characters in comics.
And honestly, that's part of the reason. Janet Van Dyne is not a very good person. At least, not at the start. She's honestly an outright bad person for a lot of her history. But she's a bad person in a very very realistic and believable way, the type of bad people who exist everywhere, who you see every day. She's not evil, she's just very selfish and inconsiderate.
But overtime she learns from her mistakes and sees just how utterly fucked up she's been, and the horrible horrible things she's done to Hank, and owns up to it. She matures, she grows, but she's still not perfect, and she still has her issues. She's become much stronger over the history of her appearances in Marvel.
She's also honestly my favorite part of the avengers. Like, to me, it's just not The Avengers without Janet. Yeah she's still a super hero and has been an important part of missions, but really her biggest contribution has been as their head of PR. She's the one who came up with the idea in the first place, the one who came up with the public image and persona of the avengers, the one who figured out how to win the public over on this whole thing. And I think that's really cool to have. She's someone who's in love with the idea of super heroes, but doesn't really care quite as much about the whole actually being a hero thing. But so, she's found away to do some real good with her talents, and she's probably indirectly helped more people by forming and supporting The Avengers than she ever would have just actually doing her job as a super hero.
>>82677071
That's fair, I'm really not familiar with the character beyond very early Avengers.
I'm just saying... she's basically a soundboard of like 5 very shallow lines in most of early Avengers v1. I didn't find her entertaining. Then again, that's probably a lot to do with Lee writing women in the 60s, Jean Grey has the same problem (and didn't evolve as well post-Lee as Jan), as do the women in Spider-Man except once in a while Aunt May.
The other thing is her go to move is "I'm just going to fly around that guy's head, that should confuse him" and then getting swatted away.
>>82672413
>>82675716
>>82658814
I don't understand why this change is hated so much. Why would the guy who specializes in particle physics invent an artificial intelligence that goes rogue and not the guy who specializes in robotics and AI? It just makes more sense.Wouldn't mind Ulton coming back as a villain for an Ant-Man film, though.
>>82677535
PROTIP: "making more sense" doesn't really matter.
Not only are we talking about stories that literally don't make sense, but also about adaptations, which means people are attached to the source material.
I personally like Starktron, but really "making sense" is the last thing that matters here.
>>82677535
>Why would the guy who specializes in particle physics invent an artificial intelligence that goes rogue
Hank 'specializes' in shit like Reed Richards specializes in shit.
Hank's two most famous achievements are discovering, and learning how to harness, a subatomic particle that alters the nature of matter, and using a neural interface to mind control ants. Ultron wasn't just any AI, he was specifically an AI developed by Hank by scanning his own brain, and trying to use that to create a hyper-advanced/hyper-intelligent consciousness.
Tony is a fantastic inventor, he's an engineer, but he's not as good a scientist as Richards or Pym.
Reed Richards is the best at learning, discovering, studying the universe and coming to understand the nature of the world. Tony Stark is the best at inventing, engineering, having a need and figuring out how to build something to fill it. But Hank Pym is the one who asks "I wonder if this would be possible" and then figures it out, often without taking necessary safety precautions.
>>82677839
I miss good guy Reed and I miss him in the MCU too. His dynamic with other characters (notably Stark and Spidey) can be so fun that they had to replace it (with Banner and Stark, respectively, playing Reed's part), and he's a great connexion between Earth and Cosmic.
>>82677333
I just feel they put a female in the Avengers for female audience readers. Or to balance things out on the all male team. Like with Sue in the F4. But seem no one really had any idea how to write women. So they just wrote them all the same. Just a pretty ditsy "te he he" kind of girl. They never really did anything too bad but they always felt like they didn't contribute as much as they should. It honestly get much better in the 70's once more writers get their hands on those characters.
>>82678324
Lots of people keep saying they want F4 for the villains but personally I honestly want the team. Reed is such a fun character when written well. He's a guy that loves learning and inventing but never really asking "maybe I shouldn't" And not even in a way like Tony with Ultron. He just does it because to him science should always be doing stupid stuff. Not really because it will help humanity but because science needs to keep being pushed.
>>82678353
Not only were they very samey and uninteresting character-wise most of the time (basically written like telenovela women), but they were weak as shit using their powers.
Jan's sting is a joke, literally just an annoyance to most villains, Sue can't do shit despite her powerset being potentially OP, and Marvel Girl is just a shittier Prof. X.
But yeah, thankfully it got better... for most of them, and then it got worse and then better and now it's sort of shit again, just differently.
>>82678602
70's and 80's honestly is Marvels best time. I do wonder which got it worse during the Dark Age: Marvel or DC. With Marvel no one really made it out smelling like roses (Spidey was completely fucked over) but DC did a lot of fucking awful work. Early 2000's went back to being fun. But Marvel Now seem like Marvel just wanted to flip over the table for no good reason and I honestly stopped caring about almost all of Marvel now.
>>82678499
>but personally I honestly want the team
Yeah same here. It feels empty without them.
>no Reed/Stark, Hulk/Thing or Spidey/Torch rivalry
>no best wife rejecting T'Challa and (sigh) Namor
And yeah SCIENCE! just isn't as SCIENCE! without Reed techno-babbling the shit out of problems.
I can take or leave the X-Men, I guess, but muh 1st family.
>>82678898
I have no idea why Fox is holding onto F4 still. They know they can't do anything with it. What's the point of having the rights is there's no good way to make money off it?
>>82678855
There's some salvageable stuff in both companies from the 90s.
Early 2000s is really hit or miss too for me, but yeah, at least it's not affraid to be some good ol' comics romp, and has some great stuff. It didn't last long though.
Can't really give much of an opinion on lots of recent stuff, I just know when I read a storytime there's 90% chance I won't like it, even when /co/ does (Awesome Hulk, Gwenpool, Contest of Champions).
>>82678985
Sadly in business it's almost as much about hurting the competition as it is about being good yourself.
>>82653690
CW suit looks way more super hero looking. As much as I loved the original suit and I get its from the 60's, but CW suit makes him look like the real deal.
Aslo the gauntlet interface thing looked cool.
>>82656765
I really wish this TLDR didn't skip over Hank's journey in West Coast Avengers, where he kind of came to terms with his past mistakes and failures and having done so developed a kind of confidence and positivity born of making his future a better one.
And then Millar went and fucked it all up...
>>82679116
I didn't mean 90's was all trash but after how amazing the 70's and 80's were it just felt like 90% of the comics released in the 90's were either horrible shit like Clone Saga or some of the most forgettable storylines.
>>82676158
Man, if it wasn't for Millar, I honestly think Pym the Wifebeater Meme wouldn't have stuck. It was the early 2000s and after that Bendis' Avengers started harping on it, like having Hawkeye thinking Pym repeatedly abused Jan behind closed doors.
I love a lot of Ultimates, but this was just disgusting.
>>82679645
That was Austen's Avengers, actually.
Why did Austen get so much work?
>>82678499
>maybe I shouldn't
I view it more as Reed knowing that even if something goes wrong he is perfectly capable of handling it.
He will build a billion things that would go wrong in anyone elses hands but he will absolutely not let anyone else near it since he knows THEY shouldn't.
>>82676040
Reed made that thor clone and the negative zone prison which started the annihilation war. So reed has done bad stuff as well. Also in general he seem more of a dick. Though doom does beat him in that regard.
>>82657124
>>82677071
What are these from?
>>82682547
>Reed made that thor clone and the negative zone prison which started the annihilation war.
Both post-2000. As I said somebody decided to make Reed a dick but he wasn't always like that, in fact he wasn't for most of his history.
>>82654673
What are Hank and Jan doing now? I haven't heard much of Jan since she came back to life, and now there's some new Wasp?
And I don't recall anything about Hank after Mighty Avengers.
>>82682788
I thought I saw him being a dick before then. Regardless that's who he's now.
>>82651349
Like with nearly everything in the MCU, they're better than their comic book counterparts.
>>82682687
>>82677071 is from Avengers 390.
>>82657124 is from Ant-Man & Wasp 03
>>82682884
Hank is fused with ultron in rage of ultron. Jan and havok's have a daughter that's then kidnapped by kang in in the uncanny avengers and then later havok is turned evil. So not too good for either.
>>82656597
Suuure it did. Shooter is too much of a control freak to allow that. He ripped Sal Buschema a new one when Sal suggested a different approach to draw movement in Spider-Man's marriage annual. Before Sal even started drawing everything. Stop believing everything Shooter says.
>>82683762
Thank you
So anyone have any guesses as to how they'll handle this? Rage of Ultron was GOAT and I sure as hell wouldn't want them to ruin what it started.
>>82678324
I still cant believe Marvel cancelled the F4 comics, they where the first family and kickstarted the 616 universe. its like if DC cancelled Action Comics
>>82686232
What's sad is how almost literally everything can be connected to F4. They were basically the linchpin that held the universe together. Their comic were the centerpiece for everything and introduced everything. Hell Spidey first outing was talking with the F4 to help boost his success. It really is insane how F4 was once one of the most well regarded comic.
>>82653219
She married a man she KNEW was not of sound mental health
>>82653690
Both look good, they just reflect their backgrounds. The original Ant-man suit looked like something made out of army surplus radiation gear and old leather jackets because it was one of the first super-suits on the timeline. The CW suit looks more clean and looks like it's made out of slightly more generic superheroey stuff because tailors have had a few more decades of experience working with superheros since the design was last touched up.
Is there an Edna Mode-style character working for SHIELD? Because I always wonder who does the tailoring for these sorts of things.
>>82664601
I'm afraid DC Comics beat you to the punch a few decades ago.
>>82677535
>>82677839
Don't curse me out, I'm a newfag trying to learn, but was Avengers AI just a bunch of bullshit then?
>>82682788
>>82688183
Now, post that with context
>>82688306
Context: Susan is possessed by an Alien, but Reed doesn't know it. He just thinks she's running her mouth with "foolish female outbursts"
After ages of reminding him of his failures as an Avenger, husband and, well, Ultron alone is enough, I can totally see how punching people on an impulse can become Hank's trait in comics too. It was a good quirk.
>>82687922
You mean JARVIS? Jarvis is an actual person in the comics. There's no AI for Tony (unless they added it). In the comic Ultron was made by Hank scanning his brainwaves and using that as the base for the AI. That's why Ultron has such a weird relationship with Hank.
People here are saying that Tony in MCU could have done the same since there's little reason for Ultron to have the same relationship with Tony as he does with Hank. Since MCU Ultron's AI has really nothing to do with Tony. Hell Banner is just as much of a father to Ultron as Tony is.
>>82688445
>That outfit
Got to love how female's becoming evil also loses as much clothes as they can.
But really I honestly hate how they handled Sue in most of the early issues of F4. But really like someone said until people like Claremont and other great writers started actually writing females well in the 70's no female really was used well. They were either too motherly, ditsy, or act like a carefree hippy. And when they become evil they were even worse.
>>82689351
Unless I'm mistaken, I think he's referring to Hank's run in the book "Avengers A.I." where he was rounding up a group of A.I.-based characters including two of Ultron's sons, Vision and Victor Mancha.
>>82689351
The thing that weirds me out with MCU Ultron isn't as much how he got Tony's personality but how he got James Spader's voice.
I mean Vision gets Jarvis' voice, sure, makes sense, but where the fuck did Ultron get his?
>>82689588
Not really unheard of for Tony to have already set up a designated voice for the A.I. if it were to go online.
>>82689754
I guess, good point, but this one sounds pretty ominous for the protector of humanity. Compared to Jarvis' for instance.
What if Hank went crazy evil and mutated/cloned Janet to be evil with him?
How accurately did EMH portray Hank and Jan's relationship?
>>82690216
Only good in the second season where Janet was just bitch to him and didn't care about his health or well being.
Can someone please post a screenshot of Bucky killing Tony Stank's parents? Either one will be fine, but preferably the mom. I need it for memes.
>>82689896
The whole point of Hank Pym is that he's SUPPOSED to be a villain. His personality and powers all bend that way. He's by turns insecure and self-aggrandizing, selfish and foolish. He gets obsessed and does things he regrets. His inventions are wacky, creepy, and dangerous. It would be an all-round better fit if he was a villain.
But he wants to be a hero.
That's why I love him, that's why he's an interesting character. He's not a paragon, he's a brilliant fuckup, but he WANTS to do good and he KEEPS TRYING. It's great.
>>82691108
>>82690216
Did she has that look on comics or was just for EMH?
>>82692123
Just EMH.
>>82656728
I think it was the best for the character to happen in years. Let's just hope the new writers don't fuck it up.
Also, one of the best things about Pym is: Despite being dragged back all to often, he's one of the few characters in marvel that actually evolve.
>>82689351
Yeah i was referring to >>82689494
Where hank pym is basically a tech god who created the singularity. I forget the exacts but he made a perfect tech world with godlike sentient AI who were gonna go find god and fuck him up for creating imperfection.
>>82686147
It's Ewing so Pymtron is in good hands. Hank's probably gonna try to be a hero and fail miserably.
>>82689896
There was that one time when Ultron absorbed Tony's body and suit and turned him into a sexy Janet body.
>>82691220
This.
I think what some don't get when people say they wanted to see Hank as a "villain" in the MCU is that it's not so much we view him as "muahahah I'm evil!" but rather he as a character would actually make for a pretty compelling sympathetic antagonist. Rage Of Ultron makes a pretty cool point about Hank's destructive tendencies and how his creation of Ultron serves to fit into the whole big picture.
Specifically, while Hank isn't inherently the goody good two shoes of a hero you'd expect him to be as with other superheroes, the fact that he always constantly tries to do good in spite of all his misgivings is exactly what makes him heroic.
>>82693250
>It's Ewing so Pymtron is in good hands.
Oh good.
>Hank's probably gonna try to be a hero and fail miserably.
Sounds about right for Hank.
>>82672257
Either that or the Wasp's/Havok's child abducted by Kang and brought back as a sleeper agent.
I hope for Pym/Modam, though.
>>82693294
What is up with Tony's suit and things possessing it. I mean there's that part where it fell in love with Tony.
>>82693458
Beyond that, Tony also had an arc where he had the Sentient Armor which would end up rebelling against him. In a later arc, it was revealed that it's base programming was actually derived from an Ultron and the Sentient Armor later became a new vessel for Ultron.
>>82693294
Yeah that was interesting.
>>82694006
His oedipus complex knows no bounds.
>>82694006
>tfw MCU Hank goes crazy over the fact that Scott survived his journey into the microverse but his wife didn't
>tfw he uses Stark's technology and creates a nano-powered Ultron as his own suit in an effort to "bring her back"
>tfw this backfires and he accidentally turns himself into a robo-Janet thus becoming the main villain of Ant-Man and The Wasp as the female Ultron
>>82694188
that's dumb
>>82694493That's the point.
Am I the only one that actually want Hank to stay where he is in the MCU? Where he is not nearly as much of a fuck up and seem to have a really good relationship with Janet. I know Hank is meant to be the ultimate fuckup but it's nice seeing him kind of sweet and fairly happy with his life with his daughter who seem to honestly really care about his dad and Hank cares for her.
>>82694525
Yeah to be honest I don't think MCU Hank is going to have as dramatic an arc as 616 Hank.
MCU Pym is more of a mentor/father character.
Not to mention the MCU is no place for a tragedy film.
>>82694568
I was just saying that how everyone seem to want him to turn evil or at least do something so stupid that he might as well be evil. And for me I actually like the sweet Hank. And how Jan seem to love him in the little bit that we get of the two. Just saying that I'm happy he's kind of getting a nice break in this run.
>>82694525
>>82694568
The Ant-Man director (I forget the name) literally said that he views Hank as an unreliable mentor figure for Scott though. Not that he'll end up being a fuckup in the sequel but it does show that the filmmakers don't have an overly positive opinion of him.
>>82694652
>>82694701
Unreliable doesn't mean evil.
MCU Hank is a failed scientist, but he's not malicious or mentally unstable.
The people who want MCU Hank to become a bad guy don't understand the character. What makes Hank interesting isn't his failures, but his ability to come back after his failures and keep trying - giving things a new approach.
>>82694755
Didn't say he was "evil", but the director implied that he didn't want Hank to be viewed as an overly nice guy and he's not exactly the ideal mentor for Scott (what with how he was treated as expendable asset to keep Hope away from danger).
>>82694755
>or mentally unstable
I think MCU Hank is a pretty cool guy and I liked him a lot. But I don't know about this.
He has certainly been more composed than Cross but I wouldn't say that makes him particularly "stable". I mean sure, he appears to have most things under apparent control (just like comics Hank has most things under control most of the time in most incarnations).
Thing is though, and he shares this with the comics incarnations. He feels on the edge. Like, he has things under apparent control but he isn't exactly all that far from snapping.
Pym even said it himself when addressing Cross in the movie about why he let him go. He claimed that he saw too much of himself. I am not painting Pym as a bad guy and I actually generally think he is much more entertaining as a good guy, or rather trying to be one. That's what I really love the character for.
But I'd like to say that it's clear that it's clear that he is regularly sort of flirting with the borders of his own sanity. And that the he the character himself is even aware and a bit concerned about it as well. Leading up to his efforts of maintaining composure, sanity, and his efforts to be a good guy. Going full circle in trying to do good but struggling to do so.
>>82694914
He's far from taking on multiple-personalities or building a killer robot though.
>>82694914
I still rather him just be a good guy that's stable enough. Him saying he saw Cross as having too much of himself I hope meant he saw what would happen if he continue the way Cross did. And instead of keeping going he knew when to stop. Let him just be the old man that has dark past that haunt him but never get to the point where it might cause him to do something bad.
Have him stable enough to know his own boundaries and be the mentor to Scott that he needs. To tell him how far he should go.
>>82695046
>Him saying he saw Cross as having too much of himself I hope meant he saw what would happen if he continue the way Cross did.
That's more or less how I interpreted it too. But it still confirms it as something of a concern of his, even if resigning was his way of dealing with it.
>>82694947
Just take into consideration that Ultron was never meant to be a bad thing.
But I agree that forcing Pym to be a villain is a huge shame since he is much more interesting attempting to be a hero.
Will they ever find happiness?
>>82693250
>>82693393
It's not Ewing, it's Duggan.
>>82696936
Indeed.
>>82696936
We'll see
>>82699417
No. It's a fact. He was already in a few pages in Uncanny Avengers 004 and coming back in 9 and 10. All written by Duggan.
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/56222/uncanny_avengers_2015_10
>>82676125
Me either man, CW helmet looks kinda weird actually.
>>82696120
Never.
>>82700687
It's the literal cycle of Hank's life choices. People might deny it because of how much he 'tries' to do good, but the part where it always goes south is so true that it's not even funny at this point.
>>82677535
>Why would the guy who specializes in particle physics invent an artificial intelligence
To see if he could.
Please notice: Hank never powered Ultron.
Ultron did SWITCH HIMSELF ON.
Then evolved from a toddler to a father-complex mass-murderer in a few seconds.
Then shot Hank. With a weapon Hank never built in him.
So, yeah. I wonder how anybody could ever blame Hank for Ultron.
>>82701439
Except Hank himself.
>>82701439
Hank pls
>>82702414
What the fuck is wrong with your arms janet?
>>82702623
Japan happened to her.
>>82658772
Go to bed, Doom.
>>82702414
>mfw they turn Janet into an animu girl sporting a sexy halterneck and pixie cut
>>82672873
>Put the belt of Ant-man on Giant-Man and I'm done.
Put the giant belt on ants and you have an army of giant ants. What could go wrong?
>No Pym solo ongoing written by Yost
>No ongoing anything written by Yost.
>>82702863
Best Hank Pym Costume.
>>82671115
The fucked up thing is, its canon that Reed discovered shrinking tech first. He did it during the early Kirby issues, before they got good.
>>82693086
The reason Pym is referred to as the God of A.I. is because, with the exception of Jim Hammond, the original Human Torch, all true AI in Marvel were made either by Hank, or Ultron (who was made by Hank).
>>82704630
Yes! Yes!
>>82688445
damn Reed is an asshole here
>>82706368
Damn, they really went out of their way to make her look like a semen demon.
>>82691220
thats not the point of pym stupid. its a theory that fans like you and i think of his character growth.
>>82706368
What does Hank look like?
>>82653690
CW suit was just because it would be easier for the CGI when he got big
so ant-man
