How many of you guys agree with this?
>people like this person will never write Batman
>Harley Quinn fangirls, on the other hand, will
>>82564678
Where is that speech from?
>>82564678
>this faggot never watched Harley's Holiday
>>82565726
>thinks that comic harley is the btas harley
>>82565942
OP's image never specified, so how was I supposed to know?
>>82564678
Harley Quinn is pretty much the idealization of the kind of pathetic woman who stays in an abusive relationship
>>82566154
The fact that the Harley in the picture inst the one from the show
>>82564678
that batman comes across as too tryhard and insecure.
>this sidekick is THE MOST EVIL. she is THE ENEMY.
>not the league of assassins, or the court of owls, or the countless demons and aliens that have been slaughtering people for thousands of years
>>82564678
>Harley Quinn is a criminal
No shit?
>>82566241
And? It could be a stand-in for Harley, much like how Earth-22 Batman is a stand-in for all Batmen.
>>82566199
More like
>Harley Quinn is pretty much the idealization of the kind of pathetic woman that writes and falls in love with serial killers or mass murderers on death row.
>>82564678
I do.
Whatever sympathy Harleen might have had died with the BTAS Universe.
>>82566199
This guy got it.
>>82566294
>the league of assassins,
They think they are saving the planet and humanity, misguided but not petty.
>the court of owls,
They think they are the only ones that know how to control and keep Gotham, yet again it's not just selfishness
>the countless demons
Demons don't have a choice, they are demons.
>>82564678
>And because of that, possibly the most evil
This is fanfiction-teir bullshit
>>82566514
I guess he means in terms of normal people.
But then again, Batman is in no position to judge a normal persons sainity
>>82566455
measuring evil by intent rather than action leads to thought crime.
>>82566555
>I guess he means in terms of normal people.
No, the quote said
>Of all the criminals I have combated, Harleen Quinzel is truly the pettiest.
>>82566514
It's an analysis done by non writers, when you get down to it, has none of the bias or inside info that many of them have. Lets them see things with relative clean eyes.
A lot of writers push the psychopathy to unbearable degrees, to the point it makes you stop and wonder just what the hell is this supposed to be funny? It becomes egregious when they change facets and try to play the victim card on their villains and paint them as not so evil.
But then you see the wide picture and realize they're even more horrible, on introspection.
If it sounds weird, have in mind that this analysis is what led to many of the more interesting comic book series, as they explored the ramifications of their morality and actions, and followed through.
I, for one, would at least like to see Harley's fanbase and their view of her be challenged.
is her name really Harleen
jesus fucking christ
>>82566199
.....you're so desperate for a group of people to feel superior to you've chosen abused women?
>>82566706
>is her name really Harleen
>>82566676
name a worse criminal
>>82567283
Not him but Pre 52 Superboy Prime.
>>82566558
>>82566455
Judging actions by their intent leads to wisdom
>>82567378
he was never tried in a court of law, not a criminal
>>82567462
You don't have to be tried in a court to be a criminal
You just have to do illegal things ie commit a crime
>>82567462
Ooooh so you want someone tried and convicted as a criminal. You realize a majority of Batman's villains are never actually convicted on account of pleading insanity and being sent to the Asylum.
I'll say Black Mask then.
>>82564678
>>82566294
>>82566558
He probably means evil not in the sense of harm it can do but psyche. Harley originally isn't the sort who is doing crime because it profits or benefits her, especially given her living conditions are often shit, but simply because it amuses a secondary person.
Harley is willing to do and endure anything the Joker even jokingly suggests to get his admiration. Which she knows is futile. Whether or not people consider the kiddie bomb thing canon the Animated universe already made a repeated point about her character by showing how often and quickly she betrays the trust of people like Ivy who try to help her, or how she was willing to watch Joker torture Tim Drake if it meant time with him confiding in her. Or the time in the comics she gathered and killed off her own crew just to make the Joker jealous. Or Injustice where she helped kidnap a pregnant Lois despite herself having a backstory of getting away from Joker while pregnant only to give up her kid to run back to him.
See she realizes just how wrong she is during or after the crime but persists anyway if he so much as smiles in her direction. People jump all over Batman for not killing the Joker but seem to forget Harley is the one who will not only forgive him for anything, but encourage him, break him out, kill people, etc. It's not a fan joke, she actually loves this nutcase.
Barbara and Bruce were just trying to get Tim back to safety and she pulls out a bazooka.
Just think about what sort of warped mind that takes. She knows this kid needs medical attention and denies him. She isn't Scarecrow and Joker, she has full sense at the time. She ignores it. I don't know how many ways I can emphasize this. Harley is the sort of person willing to sacrifice herself, people who care for her and everyone else for someone who cares nothing for her. That's pretty sinister. Tragic, but sinister.
>>82566876
AN IMAGE
ILL STEAL IT NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW
>>82568861
>she has full sense at the time
In her first solo series that wasn't the case at all.
>>82570083
Delete this post Dan Backslide.
>>82570338
Are you talking about when she saw things in a comical perspective? Because even there it was implied that psychological coping filter is only so effective and she even becomes nervous and tears up here and there because she seems to have an idea of what she's doing or has done on a subconscious level.
>>82564678
Bats, c'mon. No need to be jealous. You know Joker only has eyes for you.
>>82570542
It's a full blown psychotic delusion.
>>82567715
canon to what? 'story trumps continuity' they said. so nothing is canon by default.
>>82570628
She was far too coordinated for her to be completely out of it.
She was clearly having a breakdown due to a conflict of conscience over her actions and relations, but she was still acting with agency and awareness.
>>82570804
Agency and awareness do not preclude a psychotic episode. Kessel's run had Harley with some very concrete mental issues: obsessive, manic, codependent, narcissistic, and delusional.
>>82566843
>abused women
>victim
Choose one and fuck off back to tumblr.
>>82571206
Yes, it was thorough and exceptionally written which is why I also recall it illustrating the depths of Harley's subtle psychological reading and manipulation. Consider carefully the implications of absolving her.
>>82571078
Go on.
>>82566843
"Pathetic" was uncalled for but he's not wrong about the character.
>>82564678
>aginst
Other than that, it's a good analysis despite being somewhat autistic.
>>82571078
DID BATMAN JUST FUCKING WATCH HER CHOKE AND CHILL SOME LADY AND NOT DO ANYTHING?
NOT EVEN A "SOMEBODY CALL 911"?
>>82566843
Harely?
Abused woman?
She's a fucking masochistic groupie who gets off on the entire fucking thing. She likes being that close to death and the pain and exhiliration.
She fucking loves being his punchingbag, slave, and monsterous acolyte and quasi fucktoy.
Being the one person who is never the victim of his worst but relishing the feeling that one day it will be her turn.
She's a fucked up monster, not the broken innocent who was manipulated into being his poor wittle swave.
>>82571259
I know you guys are social rejects but Jesus fucking Christ
>>82571396
Who said anything about absolving her. If anything absolving her ruins the element of tragedy specific to her villainy. Her mental issues do not compel her villainy, they prevent her atonement.
>>82564678
Batman is a criminal.
>>82571835
So are the GCPD.
You got a better solution?
>>82571771
What tragedy?
Every person on the earth has tragedy and flaws and psychosis that is unique to them. What seperates the heroes from the villians in comics is what they do with them.
Harley has at no point had it rougher then some of the men and women in the worst parts of comicdom. As a matter of fact, the bitch has had it good.
She's a fucked up evil person because that is who she chose to be and that is who she shall remain.
Victim? Like the children she blew up with rigged gameboys?
Yeah, totally blameless.
>>82571835
Gotham is a crime.
>>82564678
That universe line was fucking amazing though
>>82571835
he is a member of the Justice Leage, I am sure they have the government approval
>>82571867
Stop putting serial killers into an asylum instead of prison or better yet start capital punishment.
>>82571705
my comment was referring to them calling abused women pathetic, not anything about harley. i 100% agree with your comment and it's the best analysis of her character in this thread
>>82571903
>Every person on the earth has tragedy and flaws and psychosis that is unique to them.
Not that anon, but you sort of just explained what tragedy right there.
Also he and I were simply elaborating the precise view and angle of the character, we came to the conclusion we're not unaware or attempting to dismiss her stance itself.
>>82571835
Batman is a mess.
Batman is a waste.
>>82571835
no u
>>82571690
Well it's Harley Quinn, who is capable of no wrong. She's just, like, damaged and stuff. Not her fault.
Truly a tragic character.
>>82572254
dindu nuffin
>>82571690
Yes, it's called shit writing. He later kissed her.
P&C are a fucking disgrace.
>>82571835
Fuck off, Zack
>This entire thread
I enjoy Batman comics too but it boggles my mind how people can be stupid enough to take this shit seriously. None of Batman's methods would be remotely effective in actuality and he'said just as crazy as the people he's chasing
>>82571705
Damn son calm down. You know she doesn't exist right?
>>82572702
>None of Batman's methods would be remotely effective in actuality and he'said just as crazy as the people he's chasing
nice meme
>>82566706
>Nigma = Riddler
>Valentine = Calendar man
>>82571867
Nuke Gotham. That shithole is beyond salvation.
>>82571984
Oh it's tragic because it's tragic.
Yes thank you, we all have our tragedies. Not a single fucking thing that has happened to Harleen Quinzel at any fucking point justifies anything she's done as Harley Quinn.
There is no fucking stance that can even come close to absolving her of her numerous egregious crimes other then niggas and a lot of gay bitches being thirsty over this character.
That's all there is too it.
>>82573165
You realize that we've been arguing against her being absolved of her crimes?
>>82568861
This
>>82564678
Quinn is a tragic figure, but whoever wrote this has issues with women. Whether it was you that wrote this or not OP? Think about your life and where it went wrong that you posted this.
>>82574262
>Quinn is a tragic figure, but
I don't think you understood that image if you thought it was saying Quinn is a tragic figure.
>whoever wrote this has issues with women.
Now I'm not sure if you even read it.
Sort of. Villains can be admirable and sympathetic too of course. This is also ignoring that people find strength in her leaving the Joker (like even if you think that she shouldn't go full anti-hero at that point it's a healthier choice for her to move on and that can be inspiring in itself).
But people who care a lot about Harley in any sense are weird to me.
>>82566558
"evil" and crime are not the same thing.
>>82574464
.>>In her grotesque folly...
Yeah I read it and understood it. My comment stands.
>>82574538
What does the character being a retard have to do with being a tragic character or the author having issues with women?
>>82574552
>>What does the character being a retard
That's DOCTOR Harleen Quinzel to you.
>aginst
>>82572254
I guess you're supposed to care about her in the same way you care about the protagonists of Natural Born Killers.
Only those actually had something subversive to say, while Harley is just made to appear edgy.
>>82574654
You know she slept her way through college right?
>>82574262
thats retarded
>>82571949
goverment tries and fails to control them a.r.g.u.s is a shitshow
>>82574790
Meet >>82574552. You will have a lot to talk about and plenty of time to do it.
Ultimately, Harley is just a character that doesn't translate well into the edgy grimderpness of the current main DC universe.
Most things about her in BTAS were implied rather than said and she worked well as a fractured human being that actually achieved some level of recovery in Arkham, showing that Batman's quest wasn't entirely futile (that is, until BB, but that was basically a no one gets to be happy ever alt future to BTAS).
The n52 just made her edgy. Like it did with almost everyone.
>>82574963
You say that as if retarded isn't an incredibly common word used to describe stupid shit.
>>82572254
im not sure why the customer service rep was such a bitch there she offered an apology harly asked for it and she rolled her eyes during it
harley undeniably overreacted though
>>82574977
Well said.
>>82575028
Well, killing people is always an overreaction except when your life or that of others is immediately threatened and theres no other way, so...
>>82575028
Because bad writing.
>>82575028
"All I can offer is an apology" is an implied apology, she rolled her eyes because being made to say it explicitly / a second time was stupid.
>>82575064
This anon is not an autist.
>>82575078
Jokes on you I actually am.
Harley's one of those villains who will straight up murder you for inconveniencing her, and not even feel bad about it.
I'm not sure how people can defend that. Might as well defend the Joker. At least he's more likely to receive some kind of comeuppance since Harley Quinn is apparently untouchable for some reason.
>>82566843
That is literally what she was based on. Bruce Timm himself compared Harley to the kind of rockstar groupie that gets treated like shit by her famous boyfriend who can play her like a fiddle. She was literally always conceived of that way by her creators after her initial appearances where she was just the Joker's moll, from at least Harley and Ivy onward that was how she was portrayed.
And yeah, she is pretty pathetic for letting herself be manipulated like this when her academic background is psychology. Most abuse victims don't help their beaus murder hundreds of innocent people.
>>82575120
That's the interesting thing. DCAU Harley actually would get hers, often from Joker no less, at the end of the day as she distanced herself from him she's gotten away with more.
>>82571978
Maybe you should look up the definition of 'pathetic' before you get your knickers in a twist. It doesn't necessarily have to be a pejorative.
>>82564678
partialy
>>82572961
Edward Nigma is a self-created alias to go with his Riddler persona.
His real name is Edward Nashton (methinks)
>>82575120
>I'm not sure how people can defend that.
people who think she can be written as a compelling character with a redemption arc believe the solution to her being written like trash on legs isn't shitting on her further but trying to get a good writer on her.
they don't defend the character when she does stuff like that, they blame the writer for being a shitter and reject those stories, like how Spider-Man fans do with OMD or Iron Man fans do with Civil War.
It's hardly rocket science
>>82574774
if that was retconned, I'm not counting it
(though, considering the current character's state, it'd make perfect sense)
>>82575607
Why can't Bruce be like he was in BTAS
None of this 'Bruce Wayne is my real mask' shit
None of this 'He's not a hero' shit
Just Batman, ultimately, being a really good guy
>>82575761
because TDKR
everything is Miller's fault
>>82574774
that's countered out by how after she dropped out of post-grad to become a sidekick, the prof. she was sleeping with published the thesis she had been working on under his own name and got wide acclaim in the field because of it.
>>82566435
>Whatever sympathy Harleen might have had died with the BTAS Universe.
So you think she was irredeemable from the start? I agree, she's always been >>82566199
>>82575761
Because of the Batfamily, even in the show he turned into an asshole when Dick was present.
They can't have him being a nice person otherwise Dick loses his "the nice guy of the family" trait which is the only thing he has other than sex jokes
>>82574977
>alt future
It was the canon future to BTAS. And once the Joker died, she more or less got her shit together.
>>82575922
And it sucks and I hate it.
>superman is mind controlled by some two-bit alien for decades
>no one notices or does anything
Fuck off.
>>82575607
So, the Kelser run shit too because she hurt people in it, often without even realizing it?
>>82576018
Acting like a manbabby won't make it less canon.
>>82574536
Evil is intentional
Why is an unrepentant psychopathic murderer such a popular and "beloved" character? T&A? Or are her fans just dense?
>>82576418
we are not talking about Deadpool
>>82567715
>installing A9LH onto your 3DS.jpg
I bet none of you'll get it.
>>82576431
Thanks for proving my point.
>>82575607
>that pic
You just KNOW
>>82576540
Poor Deathtool is going to die and never come back
>>82571690
I'm more concerned by the fact he refers to himself as "Millionaire Bruce Wayne"
>>82567715
not canon.
>a character has to be morally upstanding to be sympathetic and compelling
>>82564678
had Batman ever broken Harleys collarbone or injured her for a long period of time like he does with lots of other criminals?
Bitch deserves it
This is absolutely how Harley should be written.
She can be fun, wild, have adventures, but you should never ever forget that even before Joker drove her mad she wanted to profit off of him. She's a BAD person.
>>82577570
Of course not
Just if they're not morally upstanding, and are in fact the opposite, you have to recognize that in the narrative.
>>82573051
Spectre pls.
>>82577674
Spectre would not allow this. God's wrath is not some blind terrorist. Crusader (Azrael's servant) could though.
About Harleen. It's a shame to see what she became Deadpool's copy with LOLSORAMDOM XDXD shit. BTAS is top, even Arkham version is much better than stupid insane bitch which she is right now.
>>82572254
...How does she not recognize Harley?
>>82577548
Stay buttmad
>>82577548
I don't get it when people say this to hide from that story (and i guess this goes for any character)
Does something have to be canon to be in-character? Do people point at All Star and scream "THAT'S NOT SUPERMAN"?
>>82577610
She's a complicated person.
Bad, but not irredeemably so.
Psychotic, but not so psychotic that she can never be made to see reason.
Sympathetic, but not completely without blame.
Harley has always been made to be a character who can play both sides of the field on a whim. And the Joker is meant to be a bad influence on her actions as the fixation of her psychosis.
First and foremost, she is legitimately mentally unstable. What she does is often the result of that mental instability. Oftentimes she's barely even aware of the consequences of what she does.
>>82578300
>Does something have to be canon to be in-character?
The point was that it really wasn't in character, even for edgy New 52 Harley. That's exactly why they made it non-canon.
People who persistently try to claim that it's canon usually either have the ulterior motive of trying to argue that Harley is an irredeemable psycho or are trying to make the opposition "buttmad".
>>82578363
I see what you mean
But was it really out of character for the edgier Nu52 Harley? Just in this thread we've seen how she kills multiple times for the pettiest reasons, so why are people so bothered by that specific episode (while liking the rest of the package) is what i don't really understand. Is it just because some of the people killed were kids?
Although to be fair this was way before Conner & Palmiotti, right?
