So, are action cartoons just done in America?
I mean I know stuff like Steven Universe and Adventure Time have the occasional spurt of excitement, but calling them action shows is like calling a piece of cake a sandwich.
Is there any coherent reason for this?Did the industry collectively decide to let anime steal all of the action-packed thunder?
>>82450589
>Is there any coherent reason for this?
Toys don't sell to kids anymore and toy sales were almost always the main moneymakers for action cartoons.
>>82450589
People getting into the cartoon industry think violence is bad and think their duty is to educate children to think the same.
>>82450589
Networks don't care as much about ratings as they do about toys with cartoons, especially action ones, and nobody is buying the action figures anymore.
>>82450589
That takes too much effort and money when you can simply do what's hip right now. Namely, Adventure Time/Regular Show clones with abyssal production values.
>>82450629
This, and the fact that action are cartoons are way more expensive but don't attract any more viewers to justify the cost.
>>82450589
>like calling a piece of cake a sandwich.
You couldn't come up with a better food metaphor than that?
Action is expensive to animate whereas it's easier to just have an episode where the characters just say waffles for 15.
>>82450633
Your outrage is misdirected here. Get a life.
>>82450714
It's literally what Sugar said at PAX tho
>>82450589
I watched an episode from the last Ben Ten last week
Solid action an simple lore, characters are not annoyng or dumb. I would rate as something bettew Static Shock and Jackie Chan
Disney XD seens to have a lot of action shows
Action Cartoons have to walk that fine line of "not violent to scar our special snowflakes" and "slapstick violence". PPG is a good example of this; gone are the fisticuff punch them till they explode scenes and now the girls are green lanterns or some shit, which let them say "well they're not punching the bad tranny to death! they're using goofy magical arms and stuff XD"
Additionally they have to also appeal to both girls and boys for the producers and networks to give a fuck; girls tend to not care for violent cartoons and boys tend to not care about story and non-action segments as explained by the crew who worked on the GL cartoon.
And on top of all that, there needs to be some way for merchandise to tie in to it all. A show that can't be bundled with a shit-ton of toys/clothes/trash can't compete with those who have them, at least from a network perspective.
Expect to see more shows like SU and Adventure Time, and less like Avatar or Justice League unless a group like Adult Swim want to make an teen/adult cartoon.
I hope Samurai Jack doesn't turn into the shitshow that PPG did.
>>82450714
>he doesn't know
>>82450721
Your replying to someone who took your statement as outrage, I don't think you're doing anything but falling for the bait.
>>82450589
>So, are action cartoons just done in America?
The only action cartoons done in America are the Star Wars, Transformers and Superhero cartoons and they come off of the film franchises that are already profitable. Original action cartoons aren't done because they're not profitable due to production costs.
>>82450639
Mostly this. You probably wouldn't call MLP an action cartoon but it had dolls and other merchandise all ready to go from the start, so it's got like ten seasons and a movie already. CN was stumbling to get stuff to market for SU when it took off, so that they constantly held back on airing new eps. If they don't have merch to push, or just can't sell any, it's just not worth promoting the associated show very much, even when it wins accolades and pulls high ratings.
>>82450753
nope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucDKqtTdnjs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ddLpHci8hY
>>82450997
SU is the exception, not the rule.
>>82450643
What would constitute as an AT/RS clone?
>>82450997
SU is definitely not an action cartoon. There's only action in like 1/5 of the episodes, and even then it's extremely brief.
>>82450589
I'm sure CN will get to the point where they want to experiment with more action again.
Happens every few years.
>Ben 10
>Secret Saturdays
>Generator Rex
Only one that actually caught on was Ben 10 though, cause it was highly marketable.
I don't really mind though, as >>82450816 points out, we do have some action things currently, they're just not on CN or Nick.
Also, the French seem to be churning out more action lately with stuff like Miraculous Ladybug.
America simply stopped producing good action way back in the mid 90's and instead went full shitty comedy garbage.
The only action you could find was on saturday mornings.
Then anime came in while america was circling the bowl and just took over.
It was cheap, it had good action, it pushed toys and other crap like black cock at an exclusive secluded resort for rich white women and it only needed decent voice actors to sell.
America since then has just decided to give up roll over and take that pounding.
The thing in the OP? A jap studio could produce half a season with the amount of money they spent on that one not even well recieved up and profit from it.
>>82450629
Oh and toys do sell. The amount of fucking frozen shwag that was whored and bought everywhere was motherfucking ridiculous after that embarassing shitheap of a movie was released.
The problem is that american cartoons can no longer SELL cartoons let alone know how to make decent action or a show that the young male demo will watch and want to emulate or buy toys for.
>>82451129
Transformers and the Marvels cartoons are all hot garbage though
>>82451129
>I'm sure CN will get to the point where they want to experiment with more action again.
>Happens every few years.
Yeah, and 2D animated films will come back eventually, too.
>>82451248
>America simply stopped producing good action way back in the mid 90's
What about al the good action cartoons since then?
>>82451248
>A jap studio could produce half a season with the amount of money they spent on that one not even well recieved up and profit from it.
Because Japanese animators work for slave wages.
>Oh and toys do sell.
Not action figures.
>>82450753
>Action Cartoons have to walk that fine line of "not violent to scar our special snowflakes" and "slapstick violence
Why do you accuse the special snowflakes instead of soccer moms?
>>82451289
They might
I don't think people actually prefer 3d
>>82451297
They were sparse and mostly shit.
Can you name these great action cartoons that aren't by tartakovsky or tim and dini and mcduffie or the disney moneytrain?
![loonytoons-loonatics[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yRLpYM2.jpg "loonytoons-loonatics[1].jpg")
>Aww, do you really miss us /co/?
Also, this reminded me, the new TMNT is a decent recent action show as well.
>>82450589
The death of Saturday morning cartoon slots and reliance on primary networks for children's entertainment, really. Once the cable channels all got bought out by those same networks, they all just became satellites of one another. So now, instead of having a more localized national spread of children's entertainment, you have a thinly spread web across a bunch of different channels.
I think the proliferation of the internet in mass media along with social media development and the adoption of "expensive toys for adults" helped kill the popularity of action cartoons by removing their only other back-up revenue aside from home video releases.
Television is no longer the staple of entertainment it once was -- the internet has replaced it and has altered entertainment accordingly. Instead of kids running home after school to see their favorite cartoon, they're busy updating their social media and seeing who's uploaded a new YouTube video or Vine or tweet or what have you.
>>82451343
Box office strongly suggests otherwise.
>>82451321
But American productions have a lot more time and money, and they outsource the animation to Korea anyway.
>>82451077
Slice of life show with half assed absurdist humor, cheap animation and attempts at a overarching plot. Bonus points for shitty animation
>>82451507
artstyle*
>>82451462
>Television is no longer the staple of entertainment it once was -- the internet has replaced it and has altered entertainment accordingly. Instead of kids running home after school to see their favorite cartoon, they're busy updating their social media and seeing who's uploaded a new YouTube video or Vine or tweet or what have you.
people still watch tv shows on the internet you elderly knucklehead
>>82451462
...
The age range of the children who watch cartoons do not give a single damn about social media or vine or tweet.
They mostly watch kids shows made in minecraft, funny videos of adults making fools of themselves or children/adults playing with and having little stories with childrens toys.
And the minecraft videos and children's toy videos PUSH PRODUCT!
That's right idiot, american television dropped the ball by being out of touch rich fucktards who don't know the first thing about selling shit to anybody.
>>82451321
Yeah, and american animators do? They had to have a joint operation to fucking sue pixar disney apple and multiple other people just to get back pay and a livable wage in the first place.
No american studios just have a shitload more overhead that goes into the pockets of people who it shouldn't go into.
Even more hilarious? They both contract to the same korean studios, except japan is able to do it on a budget while america just fattens their wallets.
See the show in the OP? Basically every single fucking reason the show was even as good as it was came from the fucking korean studio that was lucky enough to be showered with funds from nick.
When they changed studios and dropped the amount of cash they spent you could feel the difference and not just notice it.
Action figures? You're out of your tiny fucking mind if you don't think that action figures sell to boys. They sell. The problem is that the people who make their money from selling action figures to boys don't know how to do it anymore and are pushing the narrative that they simply don't buy them anymore.
Which most idiots are now starting to believe.
>>82451591
Let me give an (anecdotal) example.
>Have little cousin
>Go to visit for relatives birthday
>Get stuck with kid while everyone drinks
>"So cuz, what do you do for fun?"
>"Pewdiepie!"
>"Oh... don't you watch cartoons?"
>"Mom wont let me watch TV.
>"Why?"
>"TVs bad for you."
A few weeks later he got an IPad for Christmas and he's glued to the thing 24/7 while his mother watches HBO all day.
This is oretty much true for most of my family. The only media they consune is what is streaming today and the girls just watch Frozen 50 times a day (my brother has PTSD from my neice making him watch it with her everyday.)
>>82451115
>There's only action in like 1/5 of the episodes, and even then it's extremely brief.
And when its there its usually mediocre too. There's no weight to the action in SU and it feels really stiff, almost like the characters behave as if they're action figures in the hands of toddlers. There isn't a single action scene in SU that stands out to me. LoK is the opposite, the action was good for the most part with some excellent stuff sprinkled in between. At its best it was dynamic and creative, intricate enough to have a unique appeal while being basic and simple enough to allow the fight to flow and the nature of their abilities meant that they often used the environment in the fights.
I think SU is overall a better show but its action is probably its weakest point and while LoK was overall a very flawed and poorly executed show its action was one of its strong points.
>>82451506
Because it costs a lot more.
>>82451816
>Yeah, and american animators do?
Compared to the Japanese, yes.
>They had to have a joint operation to fucking sue pixar disney apple and multiple other people just to get back pay and a livable wage in the first place.
They were paid a livable wage, just a grossly low one for the work they did. You're also mixing comparisons of television and theatrical animation.
>Action figures? You're out of your tiny fucking mind if you don't think that action figures sell to boys.
The only kids who still care about toys are ones so young that they'll watch literally anything.
![south-park-s18e09c08-okay-grandpa_16x9[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YyGyHWU.jpg "south-park-s18e09c08-okay-grandpa_16x9[1].jpg")
>>82451905
You realize that was basically the driving plot of the South Park finale two seasons ago, right?
Like, down to the dialogue almost.
>>82451338
Because soccer moms are no longer relevant? It's like bringing up the Satanic Panic. Sure, there probably are still worrywarts who think stuff like D&D is a gateway to devil worship, but they haven't been a cultural force since the early 90's. Likewise, the soccer mom thing fizzled out by 2010. Now it's 'special snowflake' or whatever your preferred pejorative is for the current crop of rabid puritanical cultural watchdog.
>>82451248
But avavat: last airbender is probably one of if not the greatest action cartoon ever made.
>>82452058
agreed, only redeeming quality about korra was the action. It's the only reason worth watching.
>>82451476
Maybe because no big companies are doing 2d tbqh
People don't know what they like until you show them - steve jobes, founder of all technology
>>82452140
http://lineboil.com/how-much-does-an-animated-tv-episode-cost/
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2011/10/30-1/how-much-does-one-episode-of-anime-cost-to-make
American shows also usually spend 9 months in production per episode. In TV anime they start production 6-12 months before the premiere, and then keep animating for 3-6 months (12-26 episodes).
And again, American shows outsource the animation to Korea.
>>82450589
>>82450629
>mfw cartoon writers don't just make an action show and the make an iphone app based on it with in app purchases.
It's like their not even trying to make money...The must really hate action shows.
>>82450589
>but calling them action shows is like calling a piece of cake a sandwich.
I like that analogy.
If there was a way to make audiences flock to a (2D) animated superhero/comic adaptation in as many numbers as a live-action adaption, they would do it.
Some problems American TV animation seems to have:
- Controlled too much by networks. I think in Japan, at least as far as anime goes, the networks don't get very involved in the production of shows (in the case of late night anime they may have no involvement) and act more like distributors.
- No production committee system.
- Preference for episodic, long-running shows.
- One-dimensional and dismissive view of animation.
- Not much media mixing, limited monetization compared to anime.
- Domestic animation capability--or what little there was--has been gutted and replaced with outsourcing.
- Amateurish, ineffective, slow and expensive animation and production techniques that produce poor results.
>>82452570
Other than The Simpsons movie, 2D movies have fared much less well than 3D ones starting around the time Shrek came out.
>>82452580
And the people involved with American cartoons are paid more.
>>82453842
Fucking this
>>82453943
The animation is outsourced to Korea, or sometimes other Asian countries. In the time it takes for them to produce a single episode, three anime seasons have passed. In the case of The Simpsons they pay the voice actors ridiculous amounts of money; one actor costs as much as two anime episodes.
Anime production doesn't pay most of the people involved a lot of money, but it's also been honed to be very fast, efficient and flexible.
>>82450589
>Did the industry collectively decide to let anime steal all of the action-packed thunder
basically. it's cheaper to get the rights to an action anime than it is to make your own action cartoon and execs flat out refuse to spend more money than they have to
>>82451350
>name good action cartoons
>but don't talk about people who made good action cartoons
ok You're a faggot
>>82450589
Do web cartoons count? RWBY is an action show, for the most part. Animation could use work though.
>>82451816
this. one only has to look to transformers to see all the stupid dumbass shit executives have done over the years. currently: dumb everything the fuck down
>>82451905
the mom needs to be slaughtered alive
>>82456359
>RWBY is an action show, for the most part.
Is that any good? I remember when it first came out /co/ ironically enjoyed it but I remember hearing somewhere that it actually got good eventually.
>>82456936
>Is that any good?
No. /co/ will choke down anything with waifus in it.
>>82450589
>Did the industry collectively decide to let anime steal all of the action-packed thunder?
Anime always had the bulk of that thunder, and in many cases more action-oriented cartoons still lacked the overarching plots of anime, not to mention particular aesthetic sensibilities. Shows like AtLA were always rare.
>>82450629
Honestly this isn't far off, more action-heavy cartoons were often toy commercials and even Gundam kept going because of Gunpla (it's basically Japanese Star Trek; the first series didn't do so well ratings-wise but rich nerds watched it).
>>82450589
Until the return of the 80's style half hour toy commercial.
>>82458171
Which is impossible. With the advent of the Internet and children's fascination with lets plays and toy openings, coupled with animated shows being cut down to a measly 11 minutes, there simply isn't a fanbase to support those kinds of shows.
Nick and CN will either have to go online and/or subscription based like Netflix, or die. Disney is holding itself on TV through sheer force of cash and multiple properties (Marvel and Star Wars).
>>82456936
It's a mixed bag.
The fight scenes are inarguably the best part. The inevitable collapse into darkness that happened at the end of the 3rd season was great.
On the other hand, they don't use the right tools for the job, so the animation doesn't match the quality of the choreography. The voice work can be really bad, though the intro of Yuri Lowenthal and Vic Manomanop into the line up improved it vastly.
Really, you watch it for two things:
1. The smug villains are immensely entertaining.
2. The waifus are cute.
The setting is interesting from what we've seen, but really poorly developed if you don't watch the little in-between episodes that explain things people in story already know (and even then, it could use a bit more depth).
Hopefully, the new tools they'll be using next season will improve the animation, and hopefully they can keep up with Monty's choreography now that he has passed.
>>82459725
>Yuri Lowenthal
>Vic Mignogna
Holy fuck they have actual voice actors now? I mean, the industry is made up of a relatively small handful that are in fucking everything, but still.
Serial stories tend to get good ratings when new episodes air, but do abysmally in reruns. That's the reason Steven Universe sees so few reruns despite its popularity. Most networks see them as a bad investment, hence why toy companies traditionally have to pay for a big chunk of the show's funding (and stop paying if the toys don't sell).
>>82460425
It would probably be easier with short, self-contained serial stories (e.g. Madoka).
>>82460628
That format seems to be really uncommon in American TV, animated or live-action. Honestly the propensity to do 13 or 26 episode stories seems to be one of the distinguishing traits of anime.
>>82461208
It's even more common in Japanese TV dramas. They are 10-12 episodes long and tend not to get second seasons (though since the episodes are an hour long they're equivalent to a 24 episode anime). NHK has a period drama that runs for a year every year, and a morning drama that does the same except the episodes are very short.
>>82456359
>>
If RWBY had even standard tv 3D animation, it would be praised by /co/ as GOAT cartoon. Too bad it doesn't
>>82462951
Only because /co/ has low standards
>>82462951
There's a lot more wrong with RWBY than this the animation.
>>82450589
Well there's still some cape cartoons.
I'm not sure I follow the toys reasoning, do comedy cartoons (aside from Spongebob) sell a lot more toys/merch, or are they simply that much cheaper to produce?
>>82451270
Quality is an entirely separate topic compared to whether they exist or not.
Action cartoons that are 8/10 or better are only a handful in the history of American cartoons.
Lack of action cartoons is turning the next generation into pussies.
>>82451321
>Not action figures.
Since when are action shows limited to action figures?
Besides Ben 10's sell alright.
>>82463232
bingo. pretty much everything about it is garbage. the only reason /co/ would like it more if it had a higher budget is because it has attractive young girls.
>>82463312
Likely a bit of both.
Comedy SoL shows don't need an overarching plot and can be rerun whenever to fill air time. Additionally, static and/or flat frames are much easier/quicker/cheaper to make than any camera work and/or fast animation for fight scenes- for action shows.
Additionally, toys (where a lot of action shows relied on) are quickly becoming outdated for the young demographic that these tv shows are aimed at. As compared to when we were kids, kids today are handed an IPad and told to go away. Let's players, unboxings, minecraft shit, all of it becomes their favorites. Like that other anon posted- that South Park season is very accurate.
>>82450629
>>82450663
That's how Sym-Bionic Titan, an American action cartoon from this decade, was killed off.
My bother making it when you can import it? It's bad business.
