ITT: Unpopular opinionsThere was nothing wrong with tweaking Bruce Timm's origin for Freeze in New 52 and was honestly for the better.The wife angle just doesn't work for a reoccurring villain since he should stop being a villain once Batman knows his story
>>82392072
While I agree Freeze lacks true staying power, I think the twist withhim and his "wife"makes him less memorable. Freeze is one of the few really justified villains. Hell, I no matter what he does I never think of him as a bad guy. But the new origin kinda makes him another crazy nutjob in Arkham Asylum
Freeze works better as a side character than a real villain. It'd be interesting to see him appear in more stories as just another guy in this universe
I really like the idea of giving Superman a power-suit. New 52 handled it piss-poor, but there's a lot of cool stuff you could do with the concept. Like, how does the suit work? What does it do? How does it affect Superman's powers? Like maybe it concentrates his cells into some of his more refined powers like heat-vision or flight
>>82392072
Maybe Freeze shouldn't be a reoccurring villain, ever think of that? Plus we really needed another crazy villain right? This whole thing was a slap in the face
>>82392329
>Maybe Freeze shouldn't be a reoccurring villain, ever think of that?
Too bad, he is. Just like in BTAS, which was also a dumb move.
Millar gets way too much shit for his books.
Yes, he wrote bad books but who didn't?
I liked the idea of Wanted and some of the character interpretations of existing DC characters Millar "created" were really enjoyable, especially that shit-version of clayface. just the two main characters and the outcome of the last book were a bit edgy, he should have stopped after killing Rictus.
Superior was honestly fucking good.
Freeze could have worked as a recurring "villain." He can easily be painted as desperate enough to always be fighting to save his wife, no matter who is standing in his way. The long years he had to live in such desperation could make him narrowminded enough that he believe that no one else can help him and any attempts to do so are hurting him. Properly done, Freeze is a tragic villain that makes it hard for heroes to draw lines. This is a man that in almost every sense, you'd want to help, but in his mind he's also perfectly justified to hate you for trying, causing situations of true villainy. With effort, Freeze can be almost the ultimate in DC's line-up for questioning if ends justify the means and what justice he truly deserves from heroes.
>>82392072
I think the new backstory is solid. Heart of Ice never meant that much to me though, the emotional content wasn't that novel for me.
>>82392491
I liked Nemesis, the scene everyone talks about was undeniably over-the-top, but it kind of worked for me. Ridiculousness has its place, even outside comedy. And I don't think the doctor meant "rigged" in the explosives sense.
>>82392185
I feel like she should have stayed his wife but I also agree with >>82392072. Freeze needed something else, something added to his story that let you know that even if his wife was cured that he was still to far gone. Maybe (This may have been done) that he does cure his wife but she is so disgusted by what he has done and the amount of people he has killed that she can't live with the guilt and kills herself
>>82392072
This comes up every now and again I want to throw my two cents about it. it is a fine recurring motive, because Freeze is a crazy asshole.
Take Freeze as a dark mirror to Batman, as many of his rogues can be. Freeze is the reflection of Batman's obsession to save Gotham. Nora is to Freeze, as Gotham is to Batman. Freeze will never save Nora, anymore than Batman will ever really get to save Gotham. That doesn't harm Batman's motives, it shouldn't harm Freeze's.
Freeze will do what it takes to save his wife. Kill, rob, work for the mob, team up with crazy people, to get favours, equipment, time, money whatever. But, he has to be the one to save her. The twisted version of Batman getting territorial over other heroes operating in Gotham. If Wayne Enterprise's sets him up in a lab, he'll just end up stealing equipment, looting funds, kidnapping other scientists to speed things up, because he's not willing of waiting for someone else to do it. He operates outside the system because he believes it is too broken to do anything, and his extreme actions are justified in the face of it.
Just as Batman's obsession can be self-sabotaging to Bruce Wayne's life, Freeze's obsession is self-sabotaging to his own success, because if someone else fixes Nora, his actions are no longer justified.
If Batman starts killing, he won't become the Joker. He'll become Freeze. The mission without morality.
The important part of it, Nora can never be fixed for Freeze to remain Freeze. And that's okay.
I like it when Superman is a very nice and boy scout kind of person but I also find the idea that he thinks clones aren't "real people" to be interesting.
It has been brought up once or twice but everyone seem to be totally against it because "Superman would never". Thing is that it could work since it's pretty likely that the only opinions he has heard up until a certain point in time are Kara's and the ones in Jor-El's notes, and it's fairly likely that neither of those sources have a very high opinion of clones and their potential personhood.
>>82393117
I see what you're talking about but this also brings us to Superman taking everything Jor-El says as Gospel and not being his own man. When Superman was at the height of his Krypontease love affair was when he was at his least interesting
>>82392072
Mr Freeze is a kind of shitty villain. Does he even have a great story, where he's the lead antagonist, outside of his origin, to justify him being so highly rated?. He's only liked because of his sobby origin, which is a stupid reason to like a villain.
Atleast Snyder was able to pull out a decent story out of him, with a twist in the end. It's much better than having him in a minor cameo role.
>>82394424
>Motivation is a shitty reason to like a villain
wow lad let's not try and sound like a massive fucking pleb here
>>82394890
Then why doesn't his motivation make him have any good stories other than heart of ice? He's still just another generic Killer croc-like bat-thug. Not even the best ice themed character.
He's like the Jason Todd of villains. Plebs flock on to him because of some cartoon.
>>82393714
Yeah, it's not really interesting if he sees Jor-El's talk as the ultimate truth but it does provide an interesting starting point that he can grow from.
Like, when he's just starting out he might actually believe it all because it's the only "thruth" he knows but as he works with the League and meets people with different opinions (such as actual clones) he slowly changes his own to a less extreme one.
>>82392072
Heart of Ice's biggest flaw is that it doomed Freeze to be a one-time villain for it to be effective. Any time he reappeared it diminished the first story's impact, and had the added 'bonus' of various writers trying to one-up the sadness of the original story or had them trying to put another spin on it. Beyond's story was probably the only one that still worked. Beyond still makes no sense to me; it had no business being as good as it was.
>>82392712
That part made me collapse with laughter in the store
Clarence is sometimes bizarrely sad for me to watch. Particularly any episode featuring Clarence's mom. You can tell that she genuinely loves her kid but she is just TIRED. She loves him but he's a burden and although she wouldn't ever admit it out loud, she probably wishes that she had a different kid. I remember being a kid in elementary school and seeing parents who loved but also resented their own children. Seeing it in Clarence makes me uncomfortable now as it did then. This isn't to say that I dislike Clarence as a show- the "kids only" episodes are generally great.
Regular Show has never gone downhill. It's pretty consistently good throughout its entire run, including all of the CJ/Margaret stuff. Not every episode is great, but it's never had a bad season. I'd say the same aboutAdventure Time.
If a show like Invader Zim came out today /co/ would hate it. The only reason anyone older than 13 likes it is because they were 13 when they saw it.
Sandman is legitimately good but a lot of it is an accident. It's obvious a lot of the time that Gaiman is just throwing symbols at the wall and hoping something sticks as "symbolism."
>>82392072
It was to edgy.
>>82397749
clarence is a fucking load
>>82392733
>she is so disgusted by what he has done and the amount of people he has killed that she can't live with the guilt and kills herselfThat's almost exactly what happened on Gotham.
Also she didn't kill herself but I think she moved on in Batman Beyond IIRC.
>>82393714
I think it be interesting in some adaption to play up his kryptonian love affair only for it to come crashing down at the introduction of Zod. The utopian society Clark was envisioning is completely erased when he learns Krypton had just as many militant extremists as earth
I'm okay with it too, because it isn't feasible for them to rehash the same stories over and over in perpetuity.
If I want to watch Heart of Ice, it still exists.
>>82392072
Batman VS Superman was bogged down by bad editing and a big reason it wasn't well received by the public (the critics and /co/ would still hate it, but the public) is that the trailers showed every plot point.
>>82399705
I think comics have become to safe and the "Edgy" complaint is almost always unwarranted
>>82400865
I legitimately believe that all human beings deserve to be eradicated. Not just them, but I hate all living organisms, what they represent, how they act, and what they do.
Species are destructive and have a need to utilize traits from other organisms in order to survive better. Hell, even the fundamental need to eat other animals and plants is disgusting to me, because it adheres to the fact that organisms have to cause suffering in order to survive.
That means, we as a species are born in the pain of others. And it will never end until the universe goes to heat death.
I hate it all.
Neonomicon and The Courtyard have become required reading in the pantheon of Lovecraft comics, and not for how bad they are.
>>82400890
Nice Copypasta mate.
Brave and the Bold is overrated.
It's solid, it's a pretty good show, but not the GOAT-est 10/10 show everyone makes it out to be.
>>82392832
I like the idea of batman becoming all cold and mission above all things and losing his humanity.
I also like the idea that batman goes crazy as shit trying to save the evil assholes he beats to death because he's terrified of losing his humanity, not because he thinks their lives are precious.
But that doesn't actually work because he's never, not once, had to really face a situation where it was the life of an innocent or the life of the joker or someone as evil as him.
No I take that back. When gotham was torn apart by an earthquake, instead of calling the flash or john/kyle or even superman, he told the league to go fuck themselves and left untold tens of thousands to die to feed his own twisted psychosis.
Tony Stark can fuck off
Iron lad was better than him
