Did he win?
Did he?
>>82380460
Well, his plan succeeded.
>>82380485
>>82380471
>>82380460
didn't he?
He did?
Would he?
>>82380460
>Reminder that if Steve listened to Tony and didn't chase him down Tony never would have seen the video and all the Super Soldiers would have been killed and nothing of consequence would have happened.
>>82380485
Did it?
>>82380524
Zemo could have been monitoring the approaches to the Winter Soldier base. At each stage of his plan Zemo had options, he took one course of action but the whole thing wasn't planned out from the off.
He win?
>>82380460
He wonmy heart.
>>82380544
>could have
That's some Batman tier plot armor right there.
How would he monitor the Winter Soldiers movements? How would he know Iron Man would turn up? Literally all he had on him was his phone and that was so he could use the Twin's justification for revenge.
>>82380524
Zemo doesn't seem like the kind of guy to have just one plan. I'm sure he had contingences in place
>>82380608
He seems like the kind of guy that hinges his entire plan on luck.
>If one person in that entire facility noticed he wasn't the specialist psychiatrist they specifically hired to come in and evaluate Bucky his entire plan would have fallen to shit.
>>82380605
>>82380641
Are you the dude who made this thread?
https://desustorage.org/co/thread/82361492
>>82380605
He was able to use the systems in the base and fully access it.
>>82380641
How would it have fallen to shit if he couldn't get to Bucky there? Couldn't he have tried again? Do you think Cap and Falcon would have sat tight in the power outage, or would they have tried to bust Bucky out?
>>82380605
actually it wouldn't makes sense for the facility NOT to have security systems
and if Tony hadn't gone there he could have just captured Cap and Bucky and lured out Tony some other way
unlike most supervillain schemes Zemo's plan makes sense since he could have just kept trying again as he had a personal motivation not some grand plan to take over the world
>>82380666
I didn't even click on the link but I can say no.
I have never started a thread on any board in my entire life.
>>82380689
If He wasnt there to give Bucky his trigger words and no one was even in the room with him when the power went out, as in Zemo got stopped when they realized he wasn't who he said he was, then no, Cap and Falcon wouldn't have a reason to break him out.
>>82380700
He could also have not killed off the Winter Soldiers if it had only been Cap and Bucky. Or activated Bucky through the speakers in the base.
>>82380700
>unlike most supervillain schemes Zemo's plan makes sense since he could have just kept trying again as he had a personal motivation not some grand plan to take over the world
Every supervillain scheme is born of personal motivation. I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.
>>82380729
Cap and IM have just had that super heated disagreement where Cap refused to sign the Accords though. Cap must already be thinking about going rogue at this point.
Zemo being caught out as a fake =/= Zemo being captured. Hell the power outage could have been his escape route even if he was captured if things had gone differently.
>>82380762
He means it wasn't a one-use, fire only once plan.
>>82380460
It's a fleeting Ozymandias-esque victory. Once the Avengers re-actualize, he'll lose his damn mind that he killed so many people for nothing and don head-sock and sword to just straight up kill them.
>>82380797
IMO it'll more be he realises the spread of supers and the damage they cause can't be stopped, and form his own group to control them.
>>82380460
Why didn't he wear a purple balaclava when in Siberia?
>>82380772
Yup. Bunch of armed guards at a military base find out someone is impersonating a psychiatrist to gain access to a prisoner and his just going to escape during a black out? Tell me what powers he possesses that could assist him during this time? especially when Iron Man and War Machine are both on sight.
As for Cap going rogue? He wouldn't. The only reason he broke out in the first place was so he could stop Bucky going rogue because of Zemo. If he never got there to fuck with Bucky there would be 0 issues. Hell if Zemo was stopped at the door by security Bucky would have probably been looked over by a normal Psychiatrist, found to be innocent/mind controlled and then Stark use his new memory glasses to help Bucky overcome the mind control shit.
>>82380825
Nah, he'll try to kill them. Maybe kill and replace. He really likes doing that.
>>82380846
because purple is ostentatious and wouldn't have fit his character as portrayed in the movie
>>82380862
mandem was proper spec ops.
>>82380533
The Avengers broke up. Half of them are fugitives. Cap lost his shield. Rhodes is a cripple.
So yeah. Zemo succeeded. He fucked them up good.
>>82380937
It would have been perfect if he was wearing a purple ski mask when in the snow in Siberia, then he takes it off when he gets in the Hydra base.
>>82380460
he's a big guy
I wonder if his confession of remorse and his subsequent suicide attempt was a ploy to make T'Challa take him into custody alive, or if he really was sorry and really did seriously mean to kill himself after giving his final confession.
>>82380460
For the moment but...the Avengers will eventually make up, while his ass will be in jail.
>>82381356
That wouldn't let him escape from the Avengers in their own base.
>>82383534
That would be some deep plotting there, I don't see the MCU going with it.
>>82380460
Yes. Turing Pharmaceuticals still hasn't lowered prices.
I like this new meme
>>82384269
Do you?
>>82384252
kek
Zemo a cute
>>823864084 u
So, in the MCU, Zemo is not part of Hydra?
>>82387099
Yes.
>>82387121
what?
>>82387099
Doesn't seem like he was affiliated with them. The background for the character states that he was part of a Sokovian black ops unit called Echo Scorpion. It's possible he knew nothing about Hydra before the leak at the end of WS.
I don't think he succeeded. Cap and Tony still seemed to be tight by the end of the movie. No biggie.
>>82387694
They were both willing to attempt reconciliation, but the Avengers as they were are defunct and cannot exist under the present conditions, and even if they were still a cohesive unit they still wouldn't be able to actually do anything.
>>82380485
With dumb luck, but yeah.
>>82387674
I am still not sure what has happened to his family anyway. He say they were far away from the part of the city that was elevated, yet in the end they were caught in because reason, despite Ironman, having reduced to dust the giant rock, thus reducing the impact to nothing, because reason? And he left for a moment because reason and when he came back they were dead, but he wasn't affected because reason?
Not the first time there's a villain with a legitimate gripe that isn't resolved or really addressed by the end of the film
It's a fucking joke in terms of storytelling and character arcs
>>82383534
Nah I think he felt he was done. I like to think he'll give the rest of the heroes more hell for forcing him to be alive.
>>82388111
>Not the first time there's a villain with a legitimate gripe that isn't resolved or really addressed by the end of the film
Except it's not the case here at all. He basically surrender because he has accomplished what he wanted to accomplish. Everything has gone according to his plan. his gripes are resolved Or at least he think so.
>>82387884
Do you really think A team of less than 10 people was able to save a whole country?
>>82387884
He was probably out and got caught up with the traffic/rampage and shit, so he's not with his family. Wife calls him and he assures her that they will be fine since they're a bit far. Maybe that's before the whole city floated and some debris unfortunately fell on their house/apartment.
>>82388188
>he wanted to accomplish. Everything has gone according to his plan
Not trying to be a dick but that's an autistic way of looking at things, you're only considering the plot (least important thing in a film)
The other characters didn't acknowledge it, it mattered to no one but him
His position didn't change at all since the start of the film, he was never challenged in any way
>>82388265
>plot
>least important thing in a film
Hello Snyder
>>82388287
>unable to understand characters
Literal autism
>>82388265
>it matteres to no one but him
Just like the death of his family
>>82380460
>tfw phase 3 has only just started and we've already had the one good villain
>>82380797
>and don head-sock and sword to just straight up kill them.
Will he don the Phoenix garb first? Then fall into a vat of hot glue forcing him to wear the sock?
>>82388265
>Not trying to be a dick but that's an autistic way of looking at things,
Not really, Quite the opposite, I am considering it from his point of view, not from the plot point of view. From his point of view, he has done what he needed to do and nothing else matter. He was going to shoot himself at the end.
His arc end there and his accomplished. BP saving his life was part of BP's arc.
>
The other characters didn't acknowledge it
Are you kidding, the whole point of this movie ia about being hold responsible for their action.
>>82388548
>Marvel Studios flicks are mindless trash that don't want to challenge the audience by colouring the villain as anything more than a paper thin bad guy
see>>82388630
Zemo's motivation is at the center of the whole movie. How near-sighted are you?
>>82388657
>Zemo's motivation is at the center of the whole movie. How near-sighted are you?
fucking autists
That just makes him a PLOT DEVICE
The reason a film has a PLOT is to move the CHARACTERS
>>82388645
>I don't read comics
Killing Joke might be a good place to start
>>82380460
nope
>>82388694
His character arc is to accomplish his mission. And he does. You stating that the heroes ignore his motivation is outright false.
He is the one who challenges the protagonists from start to finish.
>>82388807
>His character arc is to accomplish his mission
I don't think you know what a character arc is
>You stating that the heroes ignore his motivation is outright false.
They never have a moment to react to his story other than Panther
>>82388845
>His character arc is to accomplish his mission
Not everyone change at the end of their arc. This is in no way an absolute rule, nor a fault in writing if a character doesn't change at the end. Emperor Palpatine didn't change either. Neither Jafar. Neither Many Villain. That a villain's arc end with him being consumed by his own rage is a a rather classic resolution for a villain. What is interrsting in Zemo's arc is that he find Peace at the end.
>They never have a moment to react to his story other than Panther
>other than Panther
So they actually do. Nice seeing contradicting yourself.
>>82388976
Panther was given the CHANCE to
>>82389070
So did the other. Or do you think BP told this story to no one?
In the end they'd come to same conclusion as BP did and story-telling wise, this kind of repetition is pointless. Especially because knowing this story only truly matter to BP.
>>82389173
>Especially because knowing this story only truly matter to BP.
BP said himself that EVERYONE had become consumed by vengeance
In which case it would have been better if one of the main characters had been given that opportunity
>>82389299
>BP said himself that EVERYONE had become consumed by vengeance
It mattered the most to BP.
And like I said, story telling wise, repetition is pointless. They all know the story at this point, it only need to be told once to the audience.
Did Zemo know about the existence of the other Winter Soldiers all along? Was killing them part of his plan since the beginning? Or was it something Bucky told him during the power outage in Germany and once he learned about it he decided to eliminate them all besides his initial goal of getting the security footage that showed Tony's parents being killed in Hydra's Siberian base?
>>82390236
In the end it doesn't really matter whether he learned it from decrypted Hydra files or from Bucky.
>>82380460
>wanted the Avengers to fight
>Avengers fight
yes, he won
>>82390236
>Was killing them part of his plan since the beginning?
Most probably. At least in the scenario that played out, in which Cap and Bucky rendezvoused with Tony in the Hydra compound. In that scenario he needed the soldiers dead so that the heroes wouldn't have a reason to work together.
>>82380846
final scene of the movie
>*hides identity by wearing a purple balaclava his father used to wear in a past war/operation*
>Zemo: After all these years. I followed you, studied you
>Stark: Let me stop you right there. This man is Col. Zemo. Friday show them *pops out hologram*
>Zemo: Well fuck, Bucky killed you parents
and then goes to the fight
Is this want you want?
>>82388845
>They never have a moment to react to his story other than Panther
What about Cap?
>You are from Sokovia...You losed someone.
>>82383534
>Since when were you under the impression that I was suicidal?
>>82383534
>I wonder if his confession of remorse and his subsequent suicide attempt was a ploy to make T'Challa take him into custody alive, or if he really was sorry and really did seriously mean to kill himself after giving his final confession.
Nope. The fact is he kept himself motivated by listening to his wife's recorded voicemail, but he deleted it at the end of the film. If he didn't plan to kill himself for real, he would have kept that voice message.
